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Brad Rock: One thing already missing in Utah's season — siblings

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  • Hey Baby Franklin, IN
    Aug. 27, 2014 5:49 p.m.

    i love the line that says...BYU doesn't count the games the two schools played against each other when BYU was the academy and not collge or univeristy.

    ive noticed that many of those who post on this site like to disallow the games that utah wins...thus calling it an amazing undefeated streak against utah...

    we had a stronger schedule so we are better...thus we won.
    the refs cost us the game...so we are better...thus we won.
    utah scored in the last few minutes of the game...if they hadnt we would have won...so we won.
    utah only beat us by 3...so we won...
    byu was an academy...so those wins dont count....

    love it.

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    Aug. 27, 2014 6:15 p.m.

    I will miss the Aggies on the schedule, brothers should play. The cougs, I won't miss at all (no, they are not a relation).

  • Go Utes! Springville, UT
    Aug. 27, 2014 7:15 p.m.

    These articles are getting a little old. As Ute fan I have never been more excited for a schedule than I am this year! Cant wait for tomorrow! 22 hours and counting :)

  • Cletus from Coalville Coalville, UT
    Aug. 27, 2014 8:11 p.m.

    When we win idaho really bad it will really help our ranking.

    Go Utes!

  • Riley Mendenhall Provo, UT
    Aug. 27, 2014 8:32 p.m.

    Why would Utah play BYU or USU?

    Utah doesn't need BYU or USU. A loss is bad, and a win is like nothing happened.

    Even when Utah wins, USU or BYU still claim to be better

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 27, 2014 8:33 p.m.

    @ 81Ute

    I agree 100%

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Aug. 27, 2014 8:48 p.m.

    Utah wants a new challenge.

    Utah has beaten BYU 4 in a row, and 9 of last 12 meetings.
    BYU has not beaten Utah by more than a TD since 1996.

    Utah has beaten USU 13 of last 14 meetings.
    USU has not beaten Utah by more than a TD since 1979.

  • tdlawton Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 27, 2014 8:57 p.m.

    Utah has arguably the best (toughest) schedule in the nation, certainly one of the top 10, and you just can't stop crying like a baby about the BYU (sorry, I don't think you really care about USU). It is almost like you worked for a company that shared ownership with BYU.

    Here is an article that might be interesting, why not ask this question. What should BYU do to make it worth Utah's while to play them?

  • arrogant chickens Sandy, UT
    Aug. 27, 2014 9:10 p.m.

    It's too bad that the Utes ran away from the rivalry as soon as they realized that the pendulum was about to swing back in BYU's favor.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 27, 2014 9:12 p.m.

    If you take out LaVell's victories of Utah, BYU has only beat Utah 9 times. NINE. That's a pretty staggering stat. Before 1972 and after 1992 Utah was and is the big dog in this state.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 27, 2014 9:14 p.m.

    Our timid little brothers can spin it however helps them sleep at night, but the truth is, Chris Hill suspended the BYU-Utah rivalry for 2014 and 2015 because he didn't think the Utes were good enough to play both BYU and Michigan in the same season.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 27, 2014 9:15 p.m.

    Of all the points Brad Rock makes in this article, this one drives to the heart of the subject...

    "The Team Down South is just another team down south."
    -Brad Rock

    Well said, Mr Rock...well said indeed. LOL!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 27, 2014 10:01 p.m.

    @arrogant chickens

    It's too bad that the Utes ran away from the rivalry as soon as they realized that the pendulum was about to swing back in BYU's favor.

    --------------

    So true, Utah canceled the series in 2011. Then thumped BYU by 40 points at LES and have won 4 straight. I wonder what's going to happen when the rivalry swings back in "Utah's favor"?

  • 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
    Aug. 27, 2014 11:08 p.m.

    Winning four straight and suddenly you're too good... LOL! Oh, and the best one, just ignore Lavells wins and then we really thumped you! Brilliant! Ute logic at its best, comical!

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Aug. 27, 2014 11:57 p.m.

    Cletus, You don't "win Idaho" you "beat Idaho." (If you win something you have to take it home.) That assumes you score the most points because football is like bowling, not golf. Glad I could clear that up for you.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 5:49 a.m.

    "I wonder what's going to happen when the rivalry swings back in "Utah's favor"?"

    It'll first swing in BYU's favor and you'll see a repeat of 1972 to 1991 where BYU wins 18 of the next 20.

  • CG Orem, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 7:26 a.m.

    Riley

    "Even when Utah wins, USU or BYU still claim to be better"

    That's because they usually are.

    Seasons are judged on overall success, not on single game success.

    Ask any fan in the PAC 12 living outside the crimson bubble "who was better, Utah or Stanford?" and we all know what the answer will be.

    And don't give us your lame, but Utah has won x-number of years in a row.

    Seasons are judged independently. Just because you finished 8-5 one season and 5-7 the next, and therefore had a two-year record above 50%, doesn't mean you were good enough to qualify for a bowl two straight years.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 7:33 a.m.

    hey dude

    "i love the line that says...BYU doesn't count the games the two schools played against each other when BYU was the academy and not collge or univeristy... ive noticed that many... like to disallow the games that utah wins"

    We can see that you need to retake that English 99R class, but what makes you think that BYU doesn't count the games when they were BYA because Utah won?

    BYA was 3-2 versus Utah.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 8:13 a.m.

    After each whoopin' we should make them admit to getting whooped before awarding them another game.

  • PAC12Fan South Jordan, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 8:20 a.m.

    According to all the Ouija Boards in Cougar Town, the pendulum has officially swayed in their direction.

  • Danny T Minneapolis, MN
    Aug. 28, 2014 8:29 a.m.

    very sad about the loss of the rivalry game.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 8:54 a.m.

    ekute

    After each skin-of-your-teeth win, Utah fans are too busy storming the field to consider any future plans.

  • Ken Sandy, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 9:04 a.m.

    Its time for these universities to stop playing. We are just doing byu a favor by giving them a game they need and it doesn't help us, no on sees beating byu as a quality win - its just a win over a mid major team

    Lets further hurt their program by not scheduling them ever again.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 9:05 a.m.

    @ Swoop

    Considering the history of the rivalry, the period between 1972-1991 was clearly an anomaly. Outside of that time frame BYU hs only beat Utah 9 times. Think about that.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 9:19 a.m.

    BlueCoug,

    Concern for the future resides in happy valley, not up on The Hill.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 9:30 a.m.

    @ Ken

    The goal of Utah's program is not to hurt BYU's program. Stop being a little brother. Cheer FOR our team, not against another.

  • Ry Guy SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 9:33 a.m.

    If the Utes can find a way to win at least six games, I have a feeling they will meet the Cougars in a bowl game.....wouldn't that be fun.

    Not an easy task, considering the Utes play 3 top 11 teams and 6 top 25 teams (with a couple others on the cusp). Texas (BYU's toughest opponent), would be the 7th or 8th best team on the Utes schedule. Fresno State is the third worst team they play and they received some top 25 votes.

    Toughest schedule in the nation. Utah going 6 and 6 would be a better accomplishment than BYU going 11 and 1.

  • RSL* Why, AZ
    Aug. 28, 2014 9:38 a.m.

    The Ute's have a good schedule but in the end all that really matters is getting to the best bowl game and winning it. That will be a way to see who is the best team in the state.

  • BlueNtheFace Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    Aug. 28, 2014 9:59 a.m.

    I realize this article revolves around Utah's rivalry with 2 in-state schools, but what matters most is the national perception. After week 3 or 4, no one will care about Utah's super sensational SOS. Unless they win, they get no credit.

    I'll take BYU's national rep anytime over UofU and USU. Even without P5 inclusion, we're more feared and respected across the nation.

    Thanks for the 2 forfeits, Utes.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 10:08 a.m.

    @ BlueNtheFace

    "I'll take BYU's national rep anytime over UofU and USU. Even without P5 inclusion, we're more feared and respected across the nation."

    I'm not sure that's true anywhere outside of Provo. BYU's record against P5 teams, especially recently, is really nothing to write home about.

  • CougOrUte..Naah Nibley, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 10:27 a.m.

    Best of luck to the Utes. It is interesting that Coach Whittingham says he does not really care who is on the schedule. I think in reality he is over simplifying the situation with that statement. There is no way he wants to lose to either BYU or USU. It does affect recruiting and does affect instate perception. I don't think the rivalries are really important outside the state of Utah. And although I am an Aggie fan, it will take some more wins by the Aggies over BYU and Utah to really climb back into the rivalry status with them. But hey I am way excited for our improvement, for the increased respect nationally. I mean really, who would of thought pre-GA that USU would be considered to even give mighty Tennessee a game. We won't really miss the blessing of playing Utah. Tennessee vs Utah as opponents, I will take Tennessee. Better for national exposure.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 10:43 a.m.

    Considering Utah's almost complete lack of any significant history on a national scale before 2004 or after 2008, the period between 1972-1991 was clearly just the beginning of BYU's dominance of Utah on a national scale.

    Since 2006, BYU has had almost as many AP Top 25 finishes (5), as Utah has had in their entire history (4).

    In the same time period, BYU has had more 11+ win seasons (3), than the Utes have had in their entire history (3).

    As far as record versus P5s, BYU was 2-5(29%) in 2013, Utah was only 2-7(22%).

    It's funny how Utah fans only want to count the last 3 years, not the last 9 years, and not the last year, but exactly the last 3.

    Forget the overall record of the current head coaches versus PAC 12 teams, let's all put on our crimson blinders and only consider the exact time frame that makes Utah appear to be better than BYU.

  • 2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0 Ogden, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 10:43 a.m.

    Two for Flinching is almost beating me at number of posts about byU! LOL.

    byu is soon going to be playing only other mid majors, as the big boy conferences are moving towards only playing each other.

    This will improve college football for the power conferences and ruin football programs across the nation for mid majors as they will never have marquee games against big time teams and the money that those games brings will be gone.

    Sorry mid majors - you're in trouble

    Go UTES

  • Outside-View Federal Way, WA
    Aug. 28, 2014 10:54 a.m.

    Some pretty foolish statements today from BYU fans regarding Utah not playing them.

    I really wish BYU coaches and fans would adopt a more classey and sportsmanlike profile about their teams. Something like Coach Peterson of U of WA (formerly Boise State). ust play the game and let your play speak for you. Stop the hype and the non stop "record breaking" such and such.

    This goes for talking about doing "service" and having "quality kids" in your program etc. Just live the principles that you believe in and that will do more good than any amount of telling people about it could ever do.

  • CougOrUte..Naah Nibley, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 11:03 a.m.

    @Sweep: It may well be that the mid-majors may end up playing each other only. But how great it will be to play other teams that we are competitive with and the game is in doubt until the 4th quarter. With Utah's inability to recruit against anyone in the PAC 10+2 other than Colorado, how long do you think it will be until Utah is continually having 1-11 or 2-10 seasons. I do not think entertainment and enjoyment wise that the mid-majors are in as big as trouble as you predict. I think winning a conference we belong in and being competitive in every game is going to be far more enjoyable that being the perennial doormat of the PAC 10+2. Utah has been there 3 years running with no forseen improvement. I am not so sure we are the ones in trouble. You may make a lot of money, but have no one at your games. Still Good Luck on your season.

  • Rose Bowl call yet? Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 11:08 a.m.

    Utah juniors without a bowl game

    "BYU is soon going to be playing only other mid majors, as the big boy conferences are moving towards only playing each other."

    Only in your dreams.

    An all P5 vs P5 will never happen because too many of the big boys like playing a 7 game home schedule, unless, of course, bottom dwelling P5s like Utah were willing to play 7 road games.

    Besides, an all P5 schedule would be the death knell for Utah football. Without their automatic Big Sky win, the Utes would never again finish above .500 to qualify for a bowl.

    RES would soon begin to look like the Huntsman the last few years, a vast seas of empty red chairs.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 28, 2014 12:50 p.m.

    !Swoop
    Salt Lake City, UT

    "I wonder what's going to happen when the rivalry swings back in "Utah's favor"?"

    It'll first swing in BYU's favor and you'll see a repeat of 1972 to 1991 where BYU wins 18 of the next 20.

    ------------

    Here's a suggestion, first try beating a 5-7 Utah team this decade, then worry about beating us 18 of the next 20 years.

    You have a better chance of making the playoffs this year than winning 18 of 20 over Utah.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 28, 2014 12:54 p.m.

    CG
    Orem, UT

    Riley

    "Even when Utah wins, USU or BYU still claim to be better"

    That's because they usually are.

    Seasons are judged on overall success, not on single game success.

    Ask any fan in the PAC 12 living outside the crimson bubble "who was better, Utah or Stanford?" and we all know what the answer will be.

    ------------------

    Let me say it for the 100th time: BYU is not Stanford:

    * Stanford: ranked #10, PAC-12 Champion, 9-3 vs P5 teams, beat 4 ranked teams

    * BYU: ranked #34 (Utah #33), 2-5 vs P5 teams, beat 3 ranked teams in 18 years

    Stanford was an upset, beating BYU is a given.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 1:26 p.m.

    @ 2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0

    I'm responding to BYU posters and having a civil discussion. You are just making a bunch of noise trying to get attention. Big difference.

    Hopefully someday you understand how much better it is to cheer for a team, and not against somebody else. But to each their own...

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 28, 2014 2:51 p.m.

    Uteology

    Nobody claimed BYU was Stanford, but the same principle applies.

    Simply winning one head-to-head game doesn't prove you're the better team. In basketball, teams frequently split a home-and-home season series. The exact same thing happens in the NFL. And it would obviously happen more often in college football if teams played more home-and-home season series - see Alabama-LSU just a couple of years ago.

    Despite your hyperbole, 14 of last 17 head-to-head games being decided by a touchdown or less in the closing minutes or in overtime, proves that winning the rivalry game is far from a given.

    One play - a missed FG, a completed pass, a fumble, an interception, an official's call - has often been THE deciding factor in most of the last 17 games. Whether you're willing to admit it, or not, the series has been extremely close for the last 17 seasons.

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    Aug. 28, 2014 3:13 p.m.

    Among the group of BYU fans I watch games with here in the Great Northwest, I don't know one who pines for missing "rivalry" games with Utah. Utah is a regional school in a relatively small media market that is already dominated by our team. Beating Utah does little for our SOS, and losing to them means a year of obnoxiousness from their fan base. The consensus is it would be great if BYU never played Utah again.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 28, 2014 3:19 p.m.

    Uteanymous
    Salt Lake City, Utah

    Uteology

    Nobody claimed BYU was Stanford, but the same principle applies.

    Simply winning one head-to-head game doesn't prove you're the better team.

    -----------

    What does beating cupcakes?

    Utah 3-0
    BYU 6-0

    I agree but we didn't simply beat BYU, we also beat the #10 team in the nation and went 5-7.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 3:24 p.m.

    WA_Alum&Dad
    Marysville, WA

    Since the "consensus" is to never have BYU play Utah again tell Cougar fan, Bronco and Holmoe to stop whining for the game.

    BYU needs to keep doing what their "fans" enjoy - play inferior opponents and play in a meaningless bowl game. Maybe they can then conjure up some obscure stat not related to who actually wins on the field to convince themselves who is the better team.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 28, 2014 3:42 p.m.

    @Uteanymous

    One play - a missed FG, a completed pass, a fumble, an interception, an official's call - has often been THE deciding factor in most of the last 17 games. Whether you're willing to admit it, or not, the series has been extremely close for the last 17 seasons.

    ----------

    One play? Keep dreaming.

    Why 17 years? That's odd number? Lets go back to 1993, when Utah finally started playing some football thanks to McBride. Utah 14-7 (66%) vs BYU... before that Utah was horrible and BYU used to dominate.

    Those number are similar to the last 10 years, the difference are the beat-downs.

    In 10 years, 30% of the time Utah blows out BYU (even at LES). Over the same period BYU has a winning percentage of 30% vs Utah (70%), all BYU wins less than 6 points.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 4:58 p.m.

    Uteology

    As usual, you throw up a bunch of straw man arguments, but you don't come close to actually refuting the fact that the series has been extremely close for the last 17 years.

    As proof, the average score in those 14 games decided by a touchdown or less:

    BYU 20.1
    Utah 21.0

    less than a point, with Utah winning a very slight 8 to 6 majority.

    btw, since you brought it up, since 1993:

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 7
    Utah 5

    11+ Win Seasons
    BYU 5
    Utah 2

    10+ Win Seasons
    BYU 8
    Utah 6

    Conference Championships
    BYU 6
    Utah 5

    Bowl Games
    BYU 15
    Utah 14

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    Aug. 28, 2014 5:03 p.m.

    I don't blame Whittingham. He is in survival mode right now.

  • Cali blue Coalinga, CA
    Aug. 28, 2014 7:44 p.m.

    Utah, too afraid to schedule, too scared to play.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 28, 2014 9:24 p.m.

    @ Cali blue

    Your claim might have some merit if Utah's SOS wasn't in the top 10. It's weird that a team with one of the weakest schedules in the country is trying to call out another team with one of the strongest. But I guess you aren't bothered by that huge piece of irony.

  • Simple Holladay, UT
    Aug. 29, 2014 2:42 a.m.

    I don't get why BYU cares ? I mean.. if Utah is such a lousy program as all cougar fans point out by comparing win/loss records, then why do they want them on the schedule ? It just tarnishes their win-loss records and keeps them from their "quest for perfection"

  • Sparkley Briefs New York, NY
    Aug. 29, 2014 6:20 a.m.

    Best line all year: "Simply winning one head-to-head game doesn't prove you are the better team..." ROTFL!!! Yeah, I suppose the team that at no time threatened to win the game must be better. That is rich!!!