So called Law and Order, driven by racism. In some ways, in parts of the
country, there really hasn't been that much progress.
Yes... Missouri is turning into North Korea....Didn't you
hear... they now practically worship their diminutive leader as if he were God.
The people are starving and freezing the winter. Did you hear about
Missouri's nuclear weapons program? And the prison camps for political
dissidents... brutal in Missouri.It's TOTALLY becoming North
What a total over-reaction by reporter Doug Robinson. Comparing what has been
happening in Missouri under difficult temporary conditions to being in North
Korea is absurd. First of all, just because the first amendment
exists, it doesn't put reporters above the law. If they don't follow
police directives during rioting conditions, then yes, they will be detained
and/or arrested, depending on their attitudes (belligerent or not) and other
extenuating conditions. Secondly. there were hundreds of reporters
in that area. The ones having any issues at all with police was relatively
small. In North Korea, there wouldn't have been any reporters allowed to
cover any civil disobedience. In fact, any protesters there are usually shot.
How does Robinson know that when the police came prepared to deal
with worst possible conditions, that they exasperated the situation? That's
simply his opinion and nothing more. That might've actually helped the
situation."2 bits" sarcasm makes some good points. He points
out that the worst police conditions in America are multiple times better than
the best conditions in North Korea. No legitimate comparison... unless some
reporter is just trying to create more news.
The press have been bullied in Ferguson, that's for sure. But 'North
Korea'? That's a bit hyperbolic, don't you think?
It is big news. Other commenters here thing Doug is over the top on his
comparison. But I disagree. The moment we cannot hold our government to be
accountable, is the moment we lose it all. And that moment has many pieces that
seem to be falling together quite nicely over the last few decades. The police
in Missouri represent a national police culture that has spiraled out of
control. Our perceptions of what they need (ie military gear) are perpetuated
by the propaganda these groups produce. I wasn't pleased at all to see a
Armored Personal Carrier in the Midvale Harvest Days parade last weekend. They
lead their war gear down the street and I felt scarred, not pride at what our
Unified Police Department has become. Let us lead the world in doing
right, which as we all know, isn't the easiest thing to do.
The "conservatives" on this thread are awfully quick to give up their
first amendment rights, aren't they? What happened to their constant
bleating about the Constitution?
The Bill of rights purpose is to protect citizens from the government. Our
founders knew we needed to put limitations and restrictions to protect citizens.
They knew the police in particular needed these limitations and restrictions
put on them.It seems the police do everything they can to circumvent and
bend the bill of rights.
I guess hyperbole, hysteria, and over-reacting reporters on behalf of other
reporters still falls under protection of "Freedom of the Press".Handcuffing, and detainment of reporters for 45 minutes is now
equivilant of North Korea and news-worthy? While the shooting and
death of an unarmed teenager is not?Oh the Humanity!
@Irony Guy,Who on this thread (conservative or not) gave up their first
amendment rights???I re-read all of them, and not one said to give
up your first amendment rights!=============Were you
just being rhetorical... or pre-emptive with that comment? EXPECTING some to
suggest giving up your first amendment rights at some time during the day?
Because it hasn't happened YET (from what I can see). Maybe you are
seeing something I'm missing in the comments so far.===================I think we still believe in and support the
Constitution... INCLUDING the first amendment (and the 2nd... and the rest).
And it applies to ALL people.Wait a minute... are you assuming if
people don't support looting and violence... they are anti-first
amendment??? Because just as there are limits on using 2nd amendment rights
for violence, there are also limits on using the first amendment for violence
against your neighbors as well... but that doesn't mean you are giving up
your first amendment rights or you don't support the Constitution, if you
don't support looting... Molotov cocktails... etc....
The people like Esquire who are making this a racial thing, are irresponsible
and wrong.Black men get shot by police at roughly five times the
rate white men do. Racism, right? Well, dig a bit deeper.One's odds of getting shot by police will generally increase in tandem
with one's involvement in a lawless lifestyle. Black men commit serious
violent criminal offenses -- a good proxy for involvement in lawless lifestyles
-- at roughly six to eight times the rate of white men. A
reasonable conclusion from that fact, which virtually no American liberal has
bothered to look into (because cognitive dissonance) is that American police
officers are actually *slower* to shoot people in tense encounters, when the
subject is black. Given the disparate consequences for shooting a
black person versus shooting a white person (compare the calls for the police
officer's head in Ferguson versus the non-story of the shooting of a
"white Hispanic" by a police officer in Salt Lake County), this is
exactly what a rational person should expect. People respond to incentives.
There are more negative consequences to a cop who shoots a black person than to
one who shoots a white person.
LDS Liberal, why is "unarmed" relevant to anything?If it
turns out that the officer in Ferguson just lost his temper during an encounter
with an unruly member of the public and shot someone who didn't need
shooting, then he needs to be punished.If the officer reasonably
perceived himself in danger of being overpowered by a gigantic, aggressive
"teenager" (an adult, actually), then he did nothing wrong.A
person who a police officer allows himself to be physically overcome by, stops
being "unarmed." He has full access to the officer's weapon, and
can use it, or not, depending on his preference. A police officer is not going
to put himself at the mercy of a person he's trying to arrest. If it is
true (as several witnesses are reported to have stated) that Brown advanced on
an officer who, gun drawn, ordered him to stop, then he was a fool, and his
death, while tragic, is entirely his own fault.
@LDS Liberal,Like people have pointed out... You say all that
matters is that an UNARMED child was shot. Well that isn't all that
matters (in the law).The LAW needs to know... Did the officer KNOW
he was unarmed and not a threat??? If he did.... then the law will hold him
responsible. But how sure was he that the child was NOT a threat?If he was just out hunting for black children to kill that day... pretty sure
he's going to jail. But if he was being charged... he pretty much has to
assume it's a threat and respond. And no... that doesn't make him a
racist.When someone or something that can kill you is charging
you... you have to shoot and assume you missed until it is obvious the threat is
over. My father was charged by a huge bear when I was young and he used all 6
bullets in his sidearm with no evident affect, the bear falling at his feet.
Was that overkill? When they checked every bullet hit the bear and should have
been fatal.... but it took all 6 to stop the bear.
Doug Robinson needs to extend his umbrage to Abraham Lincoln who suspended
habeas corpus and incarcerated journalists until the end of the civil war. Their
crime was that they disagreed with the war in general or how Lincoln was
managing the war. But Lincoln perceived them as agitators stirring up the public
and putting public safety at risk. These long-term "inmates" were rarely
charged with crimes nor brought to a speedy trial. They were just thrown in jail
and the key was thrown away.To answer Doug's question, I guess
it does sound like America.
@irony guy: the Pc dogmatists on this site are sure ready for me to give
up my first amendment rights too, - like freedom. of religion.The
problem with ferguson. is th a the police. had too much military hardware. It
may have gone to their head.The people in ferguson do share a little
in the fault. they had allowed this to happen by not exercising their right to
vote which is a right which is increasingly under threat.
A lot of this can be attributed to being a red conservative state. These states
are prone to violence and anarchy. Just look at the civil war and the reluctance
from the radical right to desegregate. So many low information voters!In many ways, the civil war has never ended...
I don't believe journalists should have any more rights or privileges than
anyone else. That said, that they were arrested and harassed at all seems out of
line, regardless who they were. If the police are so quick to arrest anyone, if
they are treating anyone that way, it isn't a good thing.
The cop to serve and protect, or control and punish.
@george of the jungle,Re: "The cop to serve and protect, or
control and punish"...Answer: It's all of the above. They serve an protect (they are protecting the innocent people in the
neighborhood from having their homes looted or burned, and from being attacked
by mobs of violent people protesting violently on the streets). They
haven't done ANYTHING to the peaceful protesters. Just the ones that are
looting, carrying Molotov cocktails and guns.But they also control
and punish. When you rob someone... their role is to punish. When you riot,
loot and burn neighborhoods... they control.Is that OK?
@2 bitsNo it is not OK for the cops to punish. The rule of law states you
are inocent until proven guilty. The judge will levy a punishment that is
appropriate. We do not need "judge Dredd" roaming the streets. The
police are NOT to punish. They are to obey the law and bring people into be
judged if deemed necessary. WE CANNOT have cops who think it is their job to
‘Doug Robinson: When did Missouri turn into North Korea?’====== Perhaps -- 27th, October 1838with
Executive Order 44signed by, Conservative Governor -- Lilburn
For those who do not understand hyperbole:Missouri, in comparison to
the American ideal, looks close enough North Korea in the eyes the rest of the
world.Sometimes exaggeration makes the pointNo one could
defend the idea of militarized cops in armored vehicles pushing people aside.And no one should fail to notice that there are 3 White cops on a force
of 57, in a town that is 2/3 Black
Doug Robinson had me till he started to blame Obama for all the woes of the
world. Somehow Obama is to blame for all of this. Maybe we should take a look at
the city council, the police department and the Highway Patrol in and around
Ferguson Missouri. It would be fair to say that the majority of these members
are white conservatives and have a huge distaste for Obama. So how did Obama
cause the arrests of these reporters?
I fully support the First Amendment rights of the media as well as of
individuals. Nevertheless it is indisputable in this case that the media has
intentionally stirred the pot of anger and divisiveness (taking lessons from our
commander in chief whose administration plays the race card at every conceivable
opportunity and in which the MSM has been complicit as useful idiots) and has
made the problem far worse than it needed to be by reporting stories in an
irresponsible way. Of course this is permitted in our system but maybe now there
is push back.
Uncle_Fester, Niskayuna, NY,......... "taking lessons from our commander in
chief whose administration plays the race card at every conceivable opportunity
and in which the MSM has been complicit as useful idiots" REALLY??? LOL How
about Republicans and Conservatives screaming the race card is being played
every time the obvious happens?
While being the OIC during Hurricane Katrina, a colleague with the National
Guard noticed a reporter and cameraman taking pictures of the bodies in the
temporary morgue. After asking them to leave peaceably, he then ordered his MPs
to escort the reporters out of the shelter and if they returned, arrest them
both for trespassing on a military facility. Oddly the reporters never returned;
probably had a deadline to meet.Under circumstances of this type and
Ferguson, being a reporter doesn't make you immune from being arrested when
not following a lawful order from a police officer or an MP under orders from
the governor or your chain of command.