Not a bad career for a 7th round pick. I wonder how many stars he had coming
out of high school?
Pipes,That whole stars thing really bothers schools who try and
convince themselves they have just as good of a chance at winning big time bowl
games and going undefeated using mostly 2 stars as the teams full of 3-5
stars.Did you know that a 5 star has the highest chance of going to
the NFL.Next is a 4 star.Next is a 3 star.I'm happy to provide some studies that have proven this - but go do your
own research first and then get back to me.
Pipes, Not to mention BYU-er Chris Hoke, who went undrafted but then
played ten years and won two rings on the same Steelers D-line as Kiesel.
@Chris BI'm not doubting you at all. Please provide the
studies that you have found. I would love to read the info.Thank
Chris BSalt Lake City, UTPipes,"That whole
stars thing really bothers schools who try and convince themselves they have
just as good of a chance at winning big time bowl games and going undefeated
using mostly 2 stars as the teams full of 3-5 stars."But it
doesn't bother at all those teams supposedly full of 3-5 star recruits who
can't get to a bowl game in the last couple of years?
ball boy,There is a great one called "How sleeper recruits still
make the NFL, despite blue-chip dominance"A perfect summary from
that article:•A five-star recruit had a three-in-five chance
of getting drafted (16 of 27).•A four-star had a one-in-five chance
(77 of 395).•A three-star had a one-in-18 chance (92 of 1,644).•A two-star/unrated recruit had a one-in-34 chance (71 of 2,434).Hope that helps!And yes, those who like to believe 2 stars
are the same as 3,4,5 stars aren't going to like it!What do you
think after having read the article Ball Boy?
Chris BIf you truly believed in your so called 'star'
studies then you'd realize that Utes are and will forever be ill prepared
to compete against the likes of the premier recruiting giants of the PAC10.If Casey Kassem were a Ute fan he'd still say, "Keep reaching
for the stars!"Utes will need a lot of them to even begin to be
a force to reckon with in the PAC12. You can take the Utes out of the WAC/MWC
but you can't take the WAC/MWC out of the Utes.
C'mon people, get real. I love the "walk-on made good", cute
l'il Rudy-esque stories as much as anyone, but such stories in reality are
exceptions and outliers - you can't count on stocking programs with them,
because there are never enough such kids. That's why we all love such
stories when we hear them - because they are unusual, and therefore
inspirational. But for every Keisel the Diesel and Chris Hoke you can name, I
can give you 50 NFL guys that started their career as HS kids with 3+ recruiting
stars, who were sought after by multiple major programs out of HS.We've all historically been too tolerant of crappy BYU recruiting
classes, imagining, I suppose, that the staff has some kind of magic crystal
ball no other staff has. Then, last year they actually started hustling a
little bit, and won a few head-to-head recruiting battles against major programs
for some recruits that other schools actually wanted. Hallelujah! We should
welcome this trend, and not settle for, nor celebrate, the recruiting of
unheralded recruits as though it were some badge of honor -- as in and of
itself, it isn't.
sendero1,Be careful. Logic isn't too popular in Provo.
They'd rather keep believing a team full of kids that really try hard and
are nice kids even though they aren't as athletic will somehow magically
come together under Bronco's "leadership" and hear the word
execution and quest and band of brothers enough that such warm fuzzy feelings
will lead them to football greatness.But its nice to see some
reality from you. Well done
Keisel The Diesel...The (original)Beard. Congratulations on a great career.
I've enjoyed watching him. I don't care what school he played for or
what his star rating was.
My guess is that this BYU team has more 3 and 4 star athletes than Utah. We
didn't win all the original recruiting battles but somehow they ended up at
BYU. I guess they like bowl games, winning records and playing on National TV
I agree with Chris on this one. Guys like Kiesel are the exception, not the
norm. Great player with not alot of hype from High School. Stars are usually a
pretty god indicator of talent. Take the last 5 years of BYU and utah for
example. BYU star averages are 2.74, 2.33, 2.88, 2.53 and 3.04. utah's
are 2.65, 2.63, 2.75, 2.9 and 2.92. It's hard to win in big boy
conferences with 2 star recruits. Schools like BYU and utah have to rely on
more guys like Kiesel, hidden gems from Wyoming. Good luck on the season Bret.
To bad you play for the steelers though.
Chrissy-"And yes, those who like to believe 2 stars are the same
as 3,4,5 stars aren't going to like it!"Please stop it with
the false straw men. NO ONE has ever asserted 2 stars are the same as 3,4, 0r 5
stars!"Be careful. Logic isn't too popular in
Provo."Use of false straw men isn't "real" logic;
ergo, Real Logic must not be too popular on the Hill.
FWIW, I did a quick search to see how many 4- or 5-star recruits are either
signed-to or on current rosters for both BYU and Utah. Note: I included
transfers to BYU but not to Utah (if there are any) because I don’t follow
their program. BYU (15): Dayan Lake (2015), Fred Warner (2014),
Brayden Kearsley (2013), Troy Hinds (2012), Tanner Mangum (2012), Ryker Mathews
(2011), Nick Kurtz (2011, JC transfer), Harvey Langi (2011, transfer from Utah),
Ross Apo (2010), Zac Stout (2010), Graham Rowley (2010), Bronson Kaufusi (2010),
Craig Bills (2009), Adam Hine (2009), Taysom Hill (2009, transfer from
Stanford)Utah (3): Jackson Barton (2014), Jeremiah Poutasi (2012),
Hiva Lutui (2012)Who am I missing? Also, FWIW I agree
with Chris B. on this one. I’d much rather have 4- and 5-star athletes
than NR and 2-star. I’m glad BYU will have at least 10 4-star athletes on
the field this season. Go Cougs!
skitter, Paraphrasing Chris B: 'They keep believing a team full
of good kids that try hard even though they aren't as athletic will
magically come together under "leadership" ...with good
"execution"... and "band" together...' This
occurs more often than one might think: Indiana HS basketball 1954; San Antonio
Spurs 2014; Fillmore (CA) HS 1961. The Fillmore team with zero
'star' players that measured 6'0", 6'0",
5'11", 5'10", and 5'9" came from 6 pts down in final
6 seconds [with no 3 pt shot] to tie and win in overtime. The losing team? St.
John Vianney that ranged from a 4* 6'6" center [36 pts and 17 rebs!]
down to a 3* 6'1" point guard. How did this happen?
Disciplined execution of good fundamentals, excellent coaching, mental
toughness, and 7-8 young men (a band of brothers?) who did not care who got the
credit.I guess one has to experience such an event to comprehend
fully, but I know that 'stars' are only one indicator out of several
key elements of athletic success.
old but not stupid,You're comparing the Spurs to a team full of
nobody 2 stars?LOL.They have at least Hall of Famers on
their team.LOL! Ya, you'd like to believe byU is going to the
be San Antonion Spurs of college football!
correction: The have at least "three" Hall of famers - I left out the
three. My apologiesOld but not stupid - keep telling yourself byu
is like that!
Chris-"You're comparing the Spurs to a team full of nobody
2 stars?"You [Chris] made that comparison. They were an example
of so-called lesser talent (yeah see rebuttal point below) beating Miami with
their "big three." LOL"They have at least Hall of Famers
on their team."Yes,some of the SA players will be in the Hall of
Fame. However, they are OLD and have LOST several steps, but by playing Greg
Popovich (former coach at Pomona College!) basketball and EXECUTING the
fundamentals (passing, rebounding, shot selection, and team defense), they
totally outclassed Miami with a beat down of the great LeBron, et.al. LOL"Ya, you'd like to believe byU is going to the be San Antonion
Spurs of college football!"First of all I'm a UCLA Bruin,
so I don't need or like to believe anything about BYU or even your weak
ol' uties. LOLSo once again you attack with false straw men by
twisting my words and meaning with that so important "logic" with which
only you folks in the crimson crew are impressed.I think you fail,
once again! Come back tomorrow after a good night's rest.
@Chris B:A two-part response for you, as it just won’t fit
into the word limit.I’d agree that logic’s not always
popular on the recruiting front, especially outside of the Top-25. That
includes Provo, and Salt Lake City as well. Want to see how far away both our
programs are from seriously competing for talent on the national level?
Here’s the current 247 composite team rankings for 2015 commitments:(Sorry! Link DELETED by moderator requirement, check the 247 college
recruiting site, subheading “2015 Team Rankings” dated 8/20/14)Check out the midpoint for SEC teams, LSU at the moment, currently #7 in
that conference: 2 5-stars, 6 4-stars, and 6 3-star recruits. And that’s
the SEC midpoint! Florida State? 1, 10, and 7, respectively. Don’t
bother asking about 2-stars – not surprisingly, there aren’t any.
Penn State? 0, 12, and 7. Not bad for a program written off for dead two years
ago. All of these programs, of course, are in the Top 25 in recruiting. And
not surprisingly, that’s the level at which they play most of the time.(Continued Below)
@Chris B:(Continued From Above) And now how are our two
schools doing? BYU is ranked #62 (0, 0, 11) – actually a modest
improvement, but at the bottom of “Power 5”-level recruiting (Only
65 power programs!) -- and Utah is #67 (0, 0, 10) – continuing a deathbed
flatline after the fleeting Pac12 recruiting honeymoon died two seasons ago.
Both have been shut out of the Top-5 recruits in the state, and both will be
fortunate to sign two of the top 10. Pitiful – HS players in the state
are voting with their feet, a bad sign for both the Y and the U. Tell me,
Chris, how either program hopes to play Top-25 ball while recruiting mid-60s
level talent year in and year out? The disconnect is absurd, and over time,
impossible. So while as a loyal alum I’ll always cheer for the Y,
I’m going to throw my “Baloney” flag every time I see one of
these flagrantly stupid, idiotic recruiting comments – and you should do
the same, as you have the exact same problem on The Hill. Until the recruiting
takes an order-of-magnitude step forward, neither program can reasonably hope to
move beyond mediocrity. Good luck – you will need it, as will we.
Sendero, great comment. As I posted before players like Kiesel are great, but
they are the exception not the norm. And ues while lesser talented teams do
occasionally put together a great season, they are also the exception and not
the norm. BYU and utah are very similar in there recruiting numbers. What is
really funny is when certain people mock BYU for recruiting the same type of
athletes as their school.
Yes! Great Steeler, great player. Glad to see him back where he belongs to end
a great career.