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Frank Pignanelli & LaVarr Webb: Impeachment, the border crisis and other issues creating political crazy talk

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  • Shane333 Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 9:48 a.m.

    Nixon was impeached for spying on an opposing political party.

    Obama's administration has been caught spying on Congress, spying on the American people, using the power of the IRS to suppress political opponents, running guns to Mexican drug cartels (which were then used to kill US Border patrol agents), abandoning a US ambassador to die and then lying to the American people repeatedly about the cause, enacting Executive Orders to alter laws when he doesn't have the Constitutional authority to do so, etc. Any other president in US history would have been impeached and run out in disgrace long ago. However, with a lapdog Senate and lapdog media, impeachment isn't a realistic option for Obama.

    The best that can be accomplished now is to simply render Obama politically impotent and limit his ability to cause further damage to the United State of America until his term ends and he can be replaced with someone more honest and competent.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 10:29 a.m.

    IMO Impeachment is "crazy talk". Just as it was back when Democrats proposed impeaching President Bush.

    The difference is... today some fringe people on the right talk about it. During the Bush Administration it was actual CONGRESSMEN who did it. And Majority of Democrats in the House supported the motion (not just the fringe Democrats). It would have come up for a vote but Bush Presidency ended before they could do it.

    There's a difference between a few fringe people who really oppose the President and his policies holding up signs and talking about it... and actual mainstream elected representatives drafting the bill and bringing it up for a vote in Congress (and the majority of Democrats in the House voting FOR it BTW).

    So you can't say it never got serious consideration from Democrats back when Bush was President. But majority of Democrats in Congress voted FOR it!

    Google "Efforts to impeach Bush" and "Efforts to impeach Obama"...
    Wikipedia has a good outline on both. Democrats actually wrote up the articles of impeachment and voted FOR it. Republicans didn't. But Democrats are whining...

    Politicians should know... what goes around comes around (eventually).

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Aug. 11, 2014 10:47 a.m.

    @Shane333 – “… and he can be replaced with someone more honest and competent.”

    No doubt the only candidates who will meet this criteria are of both the conservative and Caucasian persuasion.

  • DanO Mission Viejo, CA
    Aug. 11, 2014 11:03 a.m.

    Shane333, there is a lot of misinformation in your post, starting with your very first sentence. Nixon resigned before the Articles of Impeachment went to the full house. The Benghazi meme has been debunked several times (even by the GOP's own investigations), the gun running was a hold out from Bush policies. The IRS "scandal" has been disproved. And administrations have delayed implementation of legislation in the past. (Bush and Part D).

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Aug. 11, 2014 11:06 a.m.

    @2 bits – “IMO Impeachment is "crazy talk". Just as it was back when Democrats proposed impeaching President Bush.”

    You mean like when Reps actually did impeach President Clinton (only falling short of votes) because they were able to trap him into a lie about a sexual liaison? Do you really want to engage in a “who’s purer” debate when it comes to following the constitutional direction on remedies for “high crimes & misdemeanors?”

    My guess is the Right has never forgiven the (almost) impeachment of Nixon just like they have never forgiven the rejection of Bork (and almost Thomas) and until they extract their pound of fresh we will continue to see this partisan playground nonsense.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Aug. 11, 2014 11:06 a.m.

    Shane333
    Cedar Hills, UT

    Obama's administration has been caught spying on Congress, spying on the American people, using the power of the IRS to suppress political opponents, running guns to Mexican drug cartels (which were then used to kill US Border patrol agents), abandoning a US ambassador to die and then lying to the American people repeatedly about the cause, enacting Executive Orders to alter laws when he doesn't have the Constitutional authority to do so, etc. Any other president in US history would have been impeached and run out in disgrace long ago. However, with a lapdog Senate and lapdog media, impeachment isn't a realistic option for Obama.

    ======

    Seriously?

    The process is --

    Drum up the indictment.
    Hold a Congressional hearing.
    Vote.
    And
    THEN Impeach.

    The House GOP hasn't even past the 1st hurdle,
    for a single instance you claim.

    i.e., CARZY talk, that's what it is, and that's why....

    BTW -- your memory of the 8 years under GW Bush is pathetic.

  • OneWifeOnly San Diego, CA
    Aug. 11, 2014 11:16 a.m.

    From the article: "Republicans have used the word “impeach” or “impeachment” only four times."

    There was a photo accompanying the article which was 3 people waving a handmade "Impeach Obama" banner and the U.S. flag. I suppose we are to believe these individuals are Democrats?

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 11:39 a.m.

    Well, the HEADLINE is correct. The rest of the article . . . . . ?

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 11:42 a.m.

    @OneWifeOnly,

    Yes the picture shows 3 people holding up a handmade sign. Nobody said they are Democrats. But I think you can find 3 crazy-talkers like this in EITHER party. Probably way more than 3.

    We had 251 of them in the House back when Bush was President. The vote in the House was 251 to 166 to refer the impeachment resolution to the Judiciary Committee on June 11 2008. In my eyes that's crazier than 3 people waving their sign on a bridge.

    =======================

    @Tyler D

    This may shock you, or not fit your stereotype for me but... I think it was crazy-talk to impeach President Clinton for his transgressions as well. But remember... he was impeached for lying to Congress, not for what he did with Monica. Perjury and lying to Congress are still a big thing, especially when it's our President. But that whole episode was crazy (IMO).

    I don't know if it was Nixon payback. And I don't approve whether it was or not. I'm just saying payback happens in politics... that's a fact of political reality (not something I like or condone).

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 12:07 p.m.

    @2 bits
    " During the Bush Administration it was actual CONGRESSMEN who did it."

    You must not pay much attention to House Republicans today.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Aug. 11, 2014 12:16 p.m.

    @2 bits – “This may shock you, or not fit your stereotype for me but... I think it was crazy-talk to impeach President Clinton for his transgressions as well.”

    Actually I think you can be one of the more interesting characters on this board because there are times you exhibit some real independence of thought & perspective (vs. many who just parrot talking points).

    Anyway, glad you think the Clinton episode was crazy too, but I think it’s important to understand why. First, he did not lie (directly) to Congress – he lied to a congressionally appointed special prosecutor who used an open-ended deposition process to blindside him with an embarrassing personal question.

    That he lied about it scarcely rises to the level of high crimes & misdemeanors, but that hardly mattered to the rabid partisans out for his blood.

    And I would venture to say that most of our elected officials put in a similar circumstance could be in the same hot water (and is why both sides are now scared to death to ever use a special prosecutor again).

    Previous comment – should have been “pound of FLESH.”

  • OneWifeOnly San Diego, CA
    Aug. 11, 2014 12:40 p.m.

    @2 bits:
    I don't think Democrats are talking about impeachment of a Democratic president. I do think Democrats are talking about Republicans who are talking about impeachment of President Obama. If you disagree, please name one Democrat who has suggested the House of Representatives impeach our current president.

    Historically, the House of Representatives have launched investigations to impeach at least 12 presidents. But an investigation is not the same thing as an impeachment which has happened to only 2 presidents and both were acquitted and not removed from office. The one which most certainly would have removed a sitting president from office was against President Nixon.

    On the other hand, it is a fact that U.S. House of Representatives has never sued a sitting president in all of U.S. history.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 12:49 p.m.

    @Schnee

    Re: "You must not pay much attention to House Republicans today"....

    That's probably true. I don't pay much attention to House Republicans. They are a joke (IMO). House Democrats and the Senate... equally a joke.

    I don't pay much attention to what they say on MSNBC either. Or FOX. What are they saying today... That House Republicans have written up articles of impeachment for President Obama?

    Until they do... it's not the same. There will always be some crazy-talkers (both sides). Some inside and outside Congress will bad mouth the President (yes... even Obama). That's nothing new. Impeachment-talk is "crazy-talk". But actually writing up articles of impeachment and submitting them is WORSE. And the majority of your party voting to impeach the President... is even MORE crazy (IMO). Yes... even when it's the evil President Bush...

    IF House Republicans write up articles of impeachment for President Obama, and proceed past political crazy-talk, and a majority of them vote FOR impeachment (as Democrats did to Bush)... they will be equal.

    Google both of them and at least read the opening paragraph... one side went way further than talk...

  • John Charity Spring Back Home in Davis County, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 1:20 p.m.

    No reasonable person can deny that traditional notions of American values is under attack. That includes traditional values that influenced government.

    Now, we are faced with attack based politics in which politicians seek to advance their own interests over that of the public. No civilized society cannot withstand this discord.

    We cannot ignore impeachment as a tool for saving America. If lawlessness reigns, anarchy will be the inevitable result. As  Abraham Lincoln famously stated "Whenever the vicious portion of the population shall be permitted to gather in bands of hundreds and thousands, and burn churches, ravage and rob provision stores, throw printing presses into rivers, shoot editors, and hang and burn obnoxious persons at pleasure, and with impunity; depend on it, this government cannot last."

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Aug. 11, 2014 1:21 p.m.

    Gosh Webb –

    You’re using all the popular “Conservative” Cliché’s . . . And PROJECTING to beat the band.

    “Certainly, talk of impeaching the president is nutty — but Democrats are the ones exploiting the issue.”

    Come on LaVarr . . . It’s not Democrats who threaten impeachment. It’s Republicans. Dems merely acknowledge that fact, and it if generates money for the NDP, so much the better. BTW, I would like to extend a Thank You to those loud Republicans out there who incessantly harp about impeachment. You’re generating a massive amount of money for the Democratic Party.

    “Both political parties and both branches of government deserve outrage and condemnation . . . ” Webb, you KNOW that’s not true. Republicans may be magnanimous in sharing the blame, but the fact is that Democrats are FOR good governance. And a growing number of Republicans are AGAINST government altogether.

    That’s why it should be of no surprise that when anti-government Tea Party types are elected, they do everything possible to validate the premise that got them elected . . . That government is bad. Perception has become reality. When Republicans dominate government, then government IS in fact, bad.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 1:28 p.m.

    @2 bits
    It doesn't matter if one side goes farther if that one side is charging a President with breaking national and international law. With Republicans they decided to sue him and then later decided what they should even sue him for.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 3:19 p.m.

    @ John Charity Spring, I've asked you before about the Lincoln quote, as have others, and you've never responded. What ARE you talking about?

    "If lawlessness reigns, anarchy will be the inevitable result." Of that, you are correct, but what are you saying? Did it apply in the prior Administration as well, or is it just one sided?

  • TheProudDuck Newport Beach, CA
    Aug. 11, 2014 3:48 p.m.

    Richard Nixon, if he were alive today and a Democrat, would not be impeached.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 7:12 p.m.

    Blaming America for the drug cartels is a pure guilt trip. People all over the world are their customers. And the children came here because Obama is not deporting them. It will continue until we stop it by sending them back.

    Does anyone really think that letting them stay will solve the problem in the future?

  • Rick for Truth Provo, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 8:51 p.m.

    If I remember correctly, die hard Democrats created a movie where President Bush was assassinated. Extremism it not the sole prevue of the far Left. High Crimes and misdemeanors against the Constitution must be alleged and passed through the House, then a super majority must vote to convict in the Senate. The Presidents actions are only to bait the Republicans into impeachment action to rouse the left's voting base in the upcoming November Election.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 9:23 p.m.

    Social media has given Americans the attention span of a gnat.

    One day they're upset about the border "crisis". The next day, they're upset about the Ukraine "crisis". Today, they're upset about the ISIS "crisis". Tomorrow, they'll be harping on the Gaza "crisis".

    Firing missiles at whatever is trending on Twitter is horrible policy.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 10:02 a.m.

    @Schnee
    Sueing the President is "crazy-talk", no doubt. You may have stereotyped me and missed the fact that I don't support whatever House Republicans do... I think Congress suing the President is "crazy". Period.

    But I do see what they are protesting with this crazy act. They feel they have to do SOMETHING to get his attention... if this works... maybe it wasn't so crazy.

    I tend to agree with House Republicans that the President is just ONE branch of the Government. And we have all 3 CO-Equal branches for a purpose. For a system of checks-and-balances on government power, and to insure that one person can't enact their own agenda or their party's agenda over the voice of the representatives of the people (in Congress).

    But I really think suing him is crazy. There are better ways to get his attention and to stop him from making Congress irrelevant, by ruling by one branch fiat (that's a dictatorship, not a representative-republic). Our current President is pretending that his branch of government is SUPERIOR to the rest of the branches (instead of CO-Equal, as the Constitution demands).

  • Kimber Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2014 2:39 p.m.

    I am amazed at what I read here. How much of it is proven to have substance? I don't think any. I wish people would have serious discussions about what we can do going forward to improve situations in this country rather than criticize a President that has made history. No President (or any other politician has ever been perfect, but he's come closer than many). You can disagree all you want, but he isn't going anywhere so please use your energy to find a future President that you will admire (as I have admired President Obama). It's not looking good right now for the conservative side, so try and change that.
    A Happy Independent

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Aug. 12, 2014 3:49 p.m.

    Hey Rick for Truth -

    "If I remember correctly, die hard Democrats created a movie where President Bush was assassinated.”

    That’s a pretty big IF.

    You either DON’T remember correctly, or you remember a lie you saw somewhere . . .probably on a Right Wing website.

    The “Death of a President" was a British production, a fake documentary that showed the assassination of GW Bush.

    No it wasn’t done by “die hard Democrats.” It was created by Brits.

    You may not realize it, but GW (I’m the decider) Bush was widely and wildly reviled around the world. The international community disliked Bush . . . In contrast to President Obama who is the most admired world leader. Look it up.

    Face it, American “Conservatives” are the world’s enemy, and the international community is smart enough to realize that.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Aug. 12, 2014 7:53 p.m.

    Shane333

    "Nixon was impeached for spying on an opposing political party."

    No he wasn't. Nixon was never impeached.

    But articles of impeachment were prepared against him. And then he resigned.

    And Ford later pardoned him of all crimes.

    That list of impeachable offenses did not include "spying on the opposing political Party."

    And no, Obama is not about to let "Conservative" whiners jeopardize national security. Surveilance, as necessary will continue.

    Unless you're a terrorist or are aiding abetting terrorists . . . don't sweat it. You're not affected.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 13, 2014 7:51 a.m.

    @Tyler D

    "No doubt the only candidates who will meet this criteria are of both the conservative and Caucasian persuasion"





    The little leftist who cried racist has destroyed progressive credibility to the point that anyone who introduces their comments with such drivel may just have well screamed "I have no facts of value to offer"





    According to CNN, 33% of the population thinks Obama should be impeached compared to 30 percent support for impeachment of President George W. Bush in 2006 and 29 percent support impeachment for former President Bill Clinton in 1998.



    According to liberal pundit, Nate Silver, MSNBC talks of impeachment five times more often than Fox. which would seem to indicate that the left is milking impeachment talk as part of Obamas power structure in defiance of the fact that that he is really no more a victim than Bush was. But his manipulative and dishonest passive/aggressive "I am victim hear me roar" mentality makes him a far more slippery and dangerous perpetrator.

    Ironically it is the illiberal left's passive/aggression and hypocrisy that repels me far more than conservatism attracts me.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Aug. 13, 2014 11:15 a.m.

    @Counter Intelligence – “The little leftist who cried racist… “

    Of course your right – I was wrong to think that in a country where at least half the population was blatantly & overtly racist just 50 short years ago, racism is now a thing of the past.

    I was wrong to think that many have simply gotten smarter (due to public ridicule) and now hide their racism, sometimes even from themselves.

    I was wrong to think that when people like Clive Bundy or Ted Nugent (a prime example of someone who cannot admit to his own racism) spouts racist rants, they are speaking for millions of like-minded individuals unwilling to speak up themselves for fear of ridicule.

    Thank you for correcting me…

    Strange though – I’ve never seen the kind of hatred visited on a president (even before he took office) as I’ve seen towards Obama. The mystery continues I guess…

    @Counter Intelligence – “Ironically it is the illiberal left's passive/aggression and hypocrisy that repels me far more than conservatism attracts me.”

    That is ironic because I feel the same way about the aggressive/aggressive far-right (utterly repelled).