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In our opinion: Obama should ignore calls for new Utah monument

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  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 12:19 a.m.

    "...but they [monuments via the Antiquities Act} have profoundly negative effects on the very meaning of representative government in this end of the country."

    Well actually that is not the case. These are public lands and Senator Durbin has as much right to weigh in as Representative Bishop.

    Now as to the creation of the monument, there are a number of issues which must be considered. I agree that local economies must receive prime consideration. So let's consider the components of the economy in the area. Number one is tourism, and the monument will help that. Number two is natural resource recovery. This can be a prime source of well paid local jobs so it can't be blown off. The monument will of course hurt this. The deciding factor for resource recovery is the potential for environmental damage. If there is to be a lot of fracking that is a big negative because fracking endangers dwindling water supplies. Number three is agriculture, which is increasingly unviable as the southwest literally dries out via global warming.

    On balance I lean to the formation of the monument to support tourism. Others of course see this differently.

  • liberal larry salt lake City, utah
    Aug. 8, 2014 7:10 a.m.

    In other words:

    "Utahans are powerless to stop President Obama from designating a new monument, but if he does, we are going to be really angry!!!!"

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 7:17 a.m.

    Only time will tell whether the president is wise enough to shun the path President Bill Clinton took in creating the Grand Staircase-Escalante Monument.

    Have to disagree completely!
    This was a forward thinking move, one that plans for the future for many generations to come. Alternatively Rob and his merry band of developers, oil, gas and mineral extractors, whom pay him well to see that land as being wasted if they can't destroy it, want to lock it up, sell it off and "dig for riches" instead of the renewable tourism which continues to rise.

    Proximity is NOT ownership, We all own this land, all Americans. This xenophobia of easterners is childish, their taxes pay to not only maintain, but extinguish fires, and clean up after the extractors leave Supersite Clean-ups.

    I really Hope Obama does this, for all American's instead of Utah politicians who stand to make the most after their sponsors "clean up."

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 7:19 a.m.

    These are lands owned by the federal government; they are NOT "Utah lands" as some people try to call them. They should be evaluated to determine if they meet the requirements for monument designation. If they meet the requirements, designate them as a monument. If they do not meet the requirements for monument designation, do not so designate them. End of discussion.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 7:50 a.m.

    This newspaper has supported the President and has standing to order him around. Or disparage him daily if he follows the national interest.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 7:54 a.m.

    I am sure President Obama will have advisors and staff closely study the issue, take feedback from varied interests, and make a rational and reasoned decision. And that is how it is supposed to happen, and it is the President's role to do exactly that with land owned and managed by the Federal government. My interest doesn't lie with mining and other business interests who want to exploit the land for short term gain. I have other interests. Utah as a whole will be fine if these lands are designated, and maybe better off in the long run.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 7:59 a.m.

    Do it President Obama!

    Utahns will dislike you no matter what you do! So why not do the right thing and expand these monuments? Anything that bishop is for, I'm against! Anything he's against, all of us should be for!

    I just wish President Obama could declare the south end of the Salt Lake Valley a monument or park. I really don't feel like paying for a prison relocation because a certain number of legislators want to make a lot of money (at my expense).

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    Aug. 8, 2014 8:09 a.m.

    "One gets all stakeholders involved in solutions."

    Guess what . . . EVERY American is a stakeholder in our Federal Lands . . . NOT just the state of Utah. And a lot of us do NOT want to see Utah indiscriminately despoil and pillage our Public Lands.

    "The other breeds resentment and makes people feel powerless."

    So be resentful Utah. Have a hissy fit. Who cares if you feel powerless that you cannot have your way with OUR land?

    You have no more right to that land then any other state. It doesn't matter that it lies within your borders. We the people of the United States OWN that land, and if you want some power over that land, then you have to ask OUR permission first. BTW . . . tantrums, crying, whining, and stamping your feet don't impress us much.

    If you want the land, then let's see a realistic offer. You don't expect us to just give it to you . . . do you?

    That would be socialism. Besides, Utah already accepts far too much charity from the Federal Government. Let’s see some pride for a change.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 8:14 a.m.

    Why do you think Congressman Bishop and the GOP is finally acknowledging the people's desire for more protection? It's because of BO and the antiquities act. If a credible proposal is not offered by Bishop that designates millions of acres of protection then BO will use his pen. BO is currently saying little but is carrying one big stick!

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 8:28 a.m.

    The people of Utah want this. This just shows how out of touch our representatives are.

    What's wrong with protecting our lands so all may enjoy them? Don't oil companies have enough ugly lands in Texas and North Dakota to exploit? Those are ugly states.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Aug. 8, 2014 8:32 a.m.

    The President must act quickly to create this monument. I simply do NOT trust Rob Bishop to preserve this beautiful land.

    I have no problem with bonafide input to such decisions, but the Bishop process is not trustworthy. You can't have a "negotiation process" with pillagers and pirates for whom all value resides in their wallets.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 8:32 a.m.

    Maybe we should just make ALL Utah a national preserve... to protect it from the Utahns who currently infest this land.

    Driving home this week I was listening to an interview with a leader in the Escalante area. I can't remember if he was the Mayor or what (I was driving so I wasn't totally listening until it got interesting). They were talking about discussions they had with the Congressman from back East who graced us with a visit from his excellency.

    He said the Congressman was shocked when he pointed out that the 3 county area they were in was the size of Connecticut, had a population of 20,000, and not one stop light.

    He mentioned that over 80% of his county was owned by the Government. But he felt sorry for 2 of his neighbor counties where over 90% of the land was owned by the Government.

    I wonder how political leaders in Connecticut would feel if 80-90% of their State was owned and controlled by people out West.

    Utah is like any other State. We want freedom to control the land in our State.

  • mcdugall Murray, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 8:55 a.m.

    The media and politicians are trying to make this a state's rights issue, when it simply is not. The terms of the agreement for Utah becoming a state included a large transfer of land to the Federal government. This property is owned by the citizens of the United States. Also, this land needs to be protected from short term exploitation. Additionally, the whole idea that if this land was open for oil and gas extraction would benefit Utahn's is quite silly (long run). Over 2,750 barrels of oil each day are shipped by rail from the Uintah basin to California, completely bypassing Utah motorists, we live an international energy market, nothing is quite "local" anymore.

  • Beaver Native St. George, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 9:48 a.m.

    @mcdugall, You are forgetting about the jobs that would be created and the increase to the tax base. That's pumping money into Utah's economy.

    @marxist, It's also a fallacy that the creation of another National Monument would bring increased revenue. There was not significant increase in tourism with the creation of the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument and the land is similar. It actually costs the government much more to administer these lands than the revenue that is brought in.

    @Gary O: It can also be considered a Federal land grab because there are state school trust lands within the proposed boundaries. These lands would then be unavailable to Utah for development. This is still an issue from whenn the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument was created.

    I am not necessarily proposing support one way or the other because I am not familiar with all of the environmental impacts. But let's keep our facts straight, and if there is a National Monument created, do a land trade for the State lands within the boundaries.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 10:31 a.m.

    Beaver Native said:

    @Gary O: It can also be considered a Federal land grab because there are state school trust lands within the proposed boundaries. These lands would then be unavailable to Utah for development. This is still an issue from whenn the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument was created.

    They were traded, NOT lost, as I'm sure would happen here, by the way the school trust lands have been cut in have since there inception, being sold off to Utah developers for a one time profit, by the Trustees, so there's yet another example of shortsighted Utah Politicians.

    Grand Staircase has not been developed as a tourist attraction...yet.

    Tourism continues to rise in the state, while depleting natural resources is a one time deal.

  • The Educator South Jordan , UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 11:16 a.m.

    @ Beaver Native

    "You are forgetting about the jobs that would be created and the increase to the tax base. That's pumping money into Utah's economy."

    You're forgetting about the costs to taxpayers to clean up the messes that these extractors leave behind.

    "It actually costs the government much more to administer these lands than the revenue that is brought in."

    False. Tourism brings millions to our state. Or was 18 million lost during Mike Lee's temper tantrum just imaginary? Serious question, have you spoken with any of our southern Utah brothers and sisters about that? Tourism provides thousands of Utahns good clean jobs. Unlike oil and coal extraction that is an finite resource, Tourism is an infinite resource. It will be here for our children and grandchildren to enjoy... Unless republicans decide to a shut down the government again!

    To be continued...

  • The Educator South Jordan , UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 11:17 a.m.

    Continued from above.

    "It can also be considered a Federal land grab because there are state school trust lands within the proposed boundaries."

    Ah yes, when all else fails bring in the "Somebody think about the children" excuse. If we want to really help education, let's get rid of the tax exemptions for 2 or more kids. Let's have big families actually contribute to financing education. Slap some skin into education instead of receiving handouts. If we want to care about children, let's preserve these lands for them! Not destroy them.

    The funny thing about the drill baby drill crowd is that they're never satisfied. We've already given them Texas and the Dakotas to exploit and plunder. Yet, that's not enough! It's never enough. Utahns need to ask themselves, is creating a few temporary jobs so that we can sell oil and coal to china really worth the health costs? Is it really worth us forking out millions to clean up? Is it worth destroying beautiful lands forever?

    Has anyone ever regretted preserving lands? Has anyone not regretted pillaging them?

  • embarrassed Utahn! Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 11:36 a.m.

    "The letters reads as if people in Utah had never considered such things or were unaware of their existence. Quite the opposite is true, but there is much more to the story."

    The letters reads???

    Proofreading pays!

    "Quite the opposite is true" ???? Sources??? citations???

    No, from what I see, most Utahns don't really care about endangered species or any other environmental concerns that we "liberals" have.

    Unbridled use of land for any selfish purpose seems to be the attitude.

    Please "liberal" senators, keep up the good work protecting Utah from Utah's "leadership"!

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 11:38 a.m.

    2 Bits nailed it when he wrote: "Maybe we should just make ALL Utah a national preserve... to protect it from the Utahns who currently infest this land."

    No one could have stated it better.

  • Spangs Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 1:31 p.m.

    Virtually all Utahns love our state because of its proximity to beautiful public lands. I don't know a tea-party libertarian conservative (and I know a lot) who doesn't go out and camp/hunt/fish/ski/hike. I also see this issue pulling them apart! On one shoulder, they LOVE these pristine lands and the great quality of life they provide. On the other shoulder is their general ubiquitous disdain for the federal government which stewards these lands.

    Maybe the ultra-conservative libertarians should concentrate on something else they actually don't like, such as high taxes, gun laws, food stamps and healthcare? If they scream too much, these cowboys might lose the range they ride off into the sunset in.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 2:33 p.m.

    @Spangs,

    Are there no beautiful lands that AREN'T Federally owned???

    I know there are many beautiful places that aren't owned by the Federal Government (YET).

    I camp/hunt/fish/hike on land that isn't Federally owned all the time. State Parks are one good example. Private land and wildlife preserves are another. A huge area by my cabin is owned and protected by a private hunting group for their members. Huge parts of Montana and Wyoming are privately owned... preserved... and beautiful... The Rockefellers bought a bunch and protected it, Tedd Turner did too...

    What I'm saying is... all land that doesn't have houses on it isn't owned by the Federal Government. I think some city folks get that impression because it's that way in the cities.

    =====

    Just because the Feds WANT to own all beautiful land in Utah... doesn't mean they already do.

    All libertarians are NOT cowboys/cowgirls BTW. Try getting your view of life from something other than a bumper-sticker, or a stereotypes of the people you write about.

    Most libertarians I know have never ridden a horse into the sunset (That's TV)

  • mcdugall Murray, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 2:38 p.m.

    @Beaver Native - All of the taxes and potential jobs created would be temporary.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 2:39 p.m.

    Hi - we are from the federal government and we are here to help - our selves!!!

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 4:03 p.m.

    "The president should ignore calls to create monuments"

    In other words, "listen to us, not them".

    I think there has been PLENTY of discussion from a wide array of parties about the topic, so this is not at all like Escalante / Grand Staircase, and those comparisons are not just wrong, but completely ingenuous.

    Ultimately, the President is "The Decider".

    Elections have consequences.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 4:43 p.m.

    @ patriot

    Hi, we are from big dirty fuel and we are here to help... Destroy your public lands for a few temporary jobs so we can sell coal and oil to China. Don't worry, you have google, right? Your kids and grand kids can look up pictures of what used to be beautiful canyon lands!

    @ 2 bits

    Hilarious! I challenge you to visit some more state parks. I hike Provo, Spanish fork, and American fork canyons all the time. Many have state parks in them . I'm continuously amazed at how poorly maintained they are. Garbage cans overflowing, fire pits damaged, grass dead, and dirty restrooms. I visit federal land and national parks, and I'm always amazed at how clean and well kept the lands are. Clearly, the federal government has proven to be better keepers of the land than state. In fact, making more state parks makes as much sense as deregulating Wall Street and giving the richies all the tax breaks.

    Sorry repubs, for 8 years i watched you guy do stuff I didn't want. Now you have to sit and watch my guy do stuff you don't like. Elections have consequences.

  • FreedomFighter41 Provo, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 5:11 p.m.

    Anyone who think that "the state" should manage these pristine lands should look to the south west side of the valley. That ugly scar in the mountains? Yeah, that wasn't there when Brigham Young came here. "The state" turned that mountain over to a "responsible" company who "gave us jobs." No we have a permanently scarred mountain. Thanks!

    "Just because the Feds WANT to own all beautiful land in Utah... doesn't mean they already do."

    I would love for this to happen. I would personally walk President Obama through south end of the valley where the prison now lies. Then watch the legislature's desire to relocate the prison melt away! And watch all the conservatives here complain.

    We need more cheap outlet stores and an overpriced cookie cutter housing like Daybreak where the prison now lies like southern Utah needs another Mike Lee government shutdown. The valley is already too crowded and too polluted.

    Until then, wouldn't it be cool for the Feds to take that land and make a national monument on that land? Beautiful way to enter the valley! C'mon Barry! More monuments!

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Aug. 8, 2014 6:39 p.m.

    Teach a man to fish, and Utah will block his access to the water. We know how Utah will give away the land to developers, ranchers and oil and mining companies. The area needs to be preserved. That's not Utah's way of doing things. Let it become a park for future generations.

  • The Educator South Jordan , UT
    Aug. 9, 2014 8:52 a.m.

    I think Obama should ignore calls to not create a monument.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 9, 2014 9:04 p.m.

    Do it President Obama! Do it now!. Rob Bishop would ruin these sacred spots for no reason.

  • Spangs Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2014 11:18 a.m.

    @ 2 bits:

    Thanks for setting me straight. I thought all libertarians were cowboys. I think its great that you have enough money to pay for a cabin and a hunting club and all that expensive stuff. When lands we recreate on are privately owned, we usually need to pay to use them. That also goes for state and national parks btw. For someone like me: poor, no resources to buy myself a sweet acre of nature with a cabin and a 4-wheeler, I utilize my birthright: forest service land, wilderness and BLM land where there is no charge. Unfortunately for me, I can't afford to be a libertarian.