Another article!LOL!"Fans and media want the big 12
to add byu"Well, that's cherry picking now isn't
it.Correction: BYU fans the BYU media want the big 12 to add byu
Awesome article. Thank you for explaining how tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3 games
make money, I had no idea. BYUtv is great for fans but won't bring the B12
any money for those tier 3 games. I wonder if BYU would ever be willing to put
their television studio on the table in B12 talks.
Big 12 can't afford to add byu.Nice spin!Said
differently:"BYU does NOT add enough value to justify inviting
them?This is unlike Utah, of course, who DID add enough value to the
Pac 10 to justify an invitation.
This is a very enlightening article. I doubt, however, that it will have any
impact on the trolls who love to state that BYU isn't worthy of being in a
Power 5 conference.
What this article fails to mention is the impact that a conference championship
game has on revenue. Adding Utah and Colorado did not add enough in monetizing
TV rights to make those moves by themselves attractive (The Pac-12 didn't
need Utah and Colorado to create the Pac-12 Network). It was the fact that they
could now hold a conference championship game and sell that as part of the TV
rights package that made moving to 12 feasible. Right place. Right time.
This is really laughable. I would humbly suggest byu EARN their way into a
power conference through actions on the field rather than sit outside and beg
day after day. I'm just guessing the Big 12 finds the begging silly and
unprofessional. Try going undefeated a few times over a decade or so
and then start talking about whether you deserve to be invited. As
of now, you do not!
The real reason the Big 12/BYU relationship isn't going to work: The Big 12
simply doesn't want BYU.Two years ago you guys had your chance
to get into the Big 12 - you blew it. Now they wouldn't touch you with a
hot branding iron.
I'm stunned by this. After the 300 articles in the past 2 weeks about how
great BYU would fit in the BIG 12, I was sure it was a done deal.
Good article, good explanation. When it makes sense for the Big 12 to add
schools, it will happen, until then, BYU football is as strong as ever on their
own without big brothers to support and abuse them. I wouldn't be surprised
if the BYU tv network does come into play at some point. I would be surprised if
Texas ever did anything to benefit the conference unless it gave them more of an
So BYU would have it's own tier 3 rights within the Big 12 and could
broadcast all the BYU vs Iowa St/K State/Kansas/TCU/West Virginia/Texas Tech on
BYUtv. That offers no incentive to the Big 12 though. Could BYU in some way
retain those tier 3 rights while taking a smaller portion of the tier 1 and 2
rights or maybe agree to televise Big 12 games on BYUtv. Does anyone watch K
State vs Iowa St or pay for that game. If BYUtv bought the rights to these
smaller tier 3 games they would in a sense be returning some of the money to
those smaller schools in the BIG 12 that is paid out every year.So
pay BYU $20M for tier 1 and 2 rights. BYUtv retains BYU's tier 3 rights.
Additionally BYUtv pays for a few Big 12 tier 3 games each week essentailly
helping the Kstate and Iowast of the league. BYUtv sells advertising for those
games and BYU makes money that way to recoup buying those games.
Let's be clear. The PAC 12 has a different revenue/TV model. Utah's
"Value" to the PAC 12 was primarily because it allowed a championship
game. I give props to Utah for their BCS Bowl Wins, but the comments from those
who talk about Utah "earning" their way into the PAC 12 ring a bit
hollow. I'll be much more receptive to that messaging after Utah
accomplishes something in their new prestigious home.
@Chris BWow. You didn't read the article at all did you once
again proving yourself uneducated and ill-informed. If you did read it you sure
don't seem to have understood. The longhorn network is the reason the BIG
12 won't expand. It doesn't matter if it is BYU or any other school.
Alabama could ask to join and they wouldn't get in because of the idiocy in
the BIG 12 allowing the longhorn network to proceed.
Everywhere I turn there is another article about the Cougs. Great time to be a
Coug Fan. Still even will all the conference media days conversations, I find is
interesting that Still nobody wants to discuss the utes.... I guess it is does
make sense as the utes really have nothing for anyone to talk about. Well at
least the Pac 12 will garner some attention with its top tier schools and the
utes will get mentioned in those articles as the other teams rack up a win when
the play the lowly utes. I guess at lease for that article they will be
discussed. But, Mark it Down as the season progresses there will be many more
articles calling for a new ute coaching staff.
tajemnica,Please tell us you're joking.If Alabama
wanted to join the Big 12 - they'd be in next year. If you don't
believe that, you are very naïve.
The Big 12 is trying to get the NCAA to let them have a championship game
without expanding to 12 teams. It will be interesting to see if they get what
they want. I suspect they will, which will make expansion highly unlikely. It
will also be interesting if this article proves to be the definitive word on the
subject of BYU going to the Big 12.
Correction Chris B, it was assumed that Utah would add value to the Pac 12.
Clearly so far they haven't. The Big 12 can see what a huge mistake the
PAC made with the Utes. They will not make the same mistake with BYU.
The rationale in this article makes sense. I didn't know the details of
how the Big 12 TV deal was structured so this was helpful in understanding a
major obstacle to Big 12 expansion.One good thing for BYU mentioned
at the beginning of the article is the talk from several conferences who have
stated they fully intend for their schools to regularly schedule BYU. This does
two things, First it ensures that BYU will likely have enough high quality
opponents going forward to survive as an independent for longer than some
expected. It also puts pressure on the ACC and the SEC to rethink their
positions on BYU.Maybe Tom Holmoe was right in keeping his
optimistic outlook on BYU as an independent.
is there ever going to be a relevent article posted about the UTES that we can
read about ? just wondering as they are a football team from the state of Utah
Does Teeples get paid to write this stuff?"The Big 12 simply
can't afford to add BYU" That isn't what the Big12
said. They said they are not interested in adding byu."But BYU
fans have watched with keen interest as their school’s name has been
mentioned in nearly every conference’s event."Right,
because the Des News is there to ask questions and it is not done from the
podium as the photos suggest. "The SEC, Big Ten, Pac-12 and SEC
all have their own conference athletics TV networks, built for the purpose of
broadcasting Tier 3 games." The SEC is listed twice."But right now, there’s nothing the Big 12 or BYU can do to make a
relationship work. The money just isn’t there."This
statement simply advances the hypothesis upon which the article is built. The
Big12 has clearly stated that they don't WANT to expand...
IF the Big 12 gets a championship game added without the full 12 members,
conference expansion is dead for the next decade and BYU could be trapped in
independence. I see many MWC and AAC games in BYU's future. BYU could negotiate with the Big 12, in an attempt to make the Big 12's
games with BYU pay via BYU-TV. Give the Big 12 a cut on games played in Provo
when they are willing to play a 1-1?
According to the Big 12, their teams make between $3 million and $15 million
each in third tier deals. See "Big 12 Announces Record Revenue
Distribution" on their website.So I don't know how
"they can’t come close to making the money schools in other power
conferences are making from theirs." The Big Ten Network makes the most per
school @ $7.4 million per year at most. WVU got at least $6 million and maybe
as much as $10 million per year for their third tier rights.
Chris B, you're so all over the place. Did you not read the article? Adding
Utah was incentive enough to the PAC because they were able to add to their Tier
3 TV rights. It had nothing to do with Utah having a good program (if you
disagree, please explain Colorado). It was about money and TV rights. Money
drives all decisions in college football.
Chris B, whatever you do for a living, I want to do the same thing. Somehow, you
are always the first to post on every article about BYU. You either sit around
tapping your fingers until a BYU article is released or you have some sort of
alert set. Either way, THANK YOU for proving how relevant BYU is. Relevancy
can be measured by how much interest a program attracts from fans AND non-fans.
We appreciate your support.
It seems to me that BYU is a net-negative on the Big-12 from a TV programming
standpoint, because BYU-TV is BYU's third tier TV "partner", and
BYU-TV airing BYU home games is competition for regular sports programming.Not only does the Big-12 not have a conference-based Tier 3 network,
they have the Longhorn Network (which diminishes the value of schools besides
Texas) and if they invited BYU, they would be adding BYU-TV, which would lure
viewers away from regular sports broadcasters.Adding BYU would make
an undesirable situation worse.
Henry DrummondSan Jose, CAThe Big 12 is trying to get the NCAA to
let them have a championship game without expanding to 12 teams. It will be
interesting to see if they get what they want. I suspect they will, which will
make expansion highly unlikely. It will also be interesting if this article
proves to be the definitive word on the subject of BYU going to the Big 12.__________No they won't get away with it. The SEC ACC
& BIG 12 already have complained about that. They won't allow a school
from the BIG 12 jump over them into the playoffs without a conference title
BYU can still become a football only buddy. Notre Dame and the ACC. If BYU could
pull off an agreement to play 5-6 BIG 12 teams a year. Who knows.
Respect the 12(pac) - If the PAC12 could they would drop Utah from the PAC12 in
lieu of Alabama any day.Don't kid yourself into believing you
are something that you aren't.
With the lack of a Conference Championship 13th game in the Big 12, the chances
of them getting into the playoff is simply less of an opportunity. Texas, OK,
OK State etc will be more than miffed should Pac12 get a team; Big 10 get one
and the SEC get two each year. There will be weeping and wailing and crying all
over the Big12 as they sit without the big bucks. Soon the money will come in
when they do expand. It is just a matter of time.
Benderman1,"Chris B, whatever you do for a living, I want to do the
same thing."Funniest line in months.......
I agree that BYU does not add enough value to the Big 12 right now for them to
expand.However, there is a decent possibility that at some point,
the Big 12 will be forced to expand, in which case they would add the 2 most
attractive options.If you look at it purely from a TV/Revenue
standpoint, BYU blows any other non-P5 out of the water. We are the 15th most
watched team in all of college football. I'm not sure where the next non-P5
comes in, but I do know that it's nowhere close to BYU. BYU also brings in
more revenue than any of the non-P5 schools.Also, we are easily a
top 5 football team from the non-P5 and have a great all-around athletic
program.Are we good enough to be worth splitting the financial pie
in the Big 12? No.But if and when the Big 12 is forced to expand,
BYU is the best option.
@ Chris B.Enough already, please find some other venue to dump on
BYU. You consistently speak as if you were a life-long member of
the PAC 10. You and the Utes are not. This is only your fourth year in the
PAC, after spending years and years in the WAC and Mountain West. The reality
is that you were invited to the PAC more by freak luck than anything you did, a
third desperation choice to create a 6 team division in a 12 team conference.
Now you are languishing in the bottom of the PAC 12 standings. And
in light of this fact the commissioner of the PAC 12, who’s membership you
love you so much, recently said: “They’re (BYU) a school
that’s got a great reputation, a great history of success,”
…“I’d consider it a high-quality matchup when our teams play
against them. Hard to swallow, isn’t it? Some call it a cruel irony.
If you don’t like the articles here, then the solution is
simple. Don't read them, or find some other venue to dump on BYU.
To all the ute fans who keep telling us that the Big 12 doesn't want to
expand, let me make this very very clear.We know.We know.We know.Is it clear yet?We know.We know.I don't think that will be enough for the ute fans to understand
but I gave it my best.We very well understand that they don't
want to expand. We aren't trying to force our way in right now. We are
trying to position ourselves so that when the Big 12 does want/need to expand,
we are the best option.Sure, there are some BYU fans who are
delusional and think a Big 12 invite is just around the corner. Most of us,
however, understand that it won't come until they actually are looking to
expand. But I am absolutely in favor of positioning ourselves as favorably as
possible to be ready for it.The worst thing BYU can do is sit
quietly until the Big 12 looks to expand and then start acting interested in
joining the Big 12.It is much better to jockey for a spot in the Big
12 a little early than a little late.
The AAC mentioned BYU?Is that supposed to be an independent
endorsement with which we should be impressed?First of all, the AAC
is not a power conference itself, and is struggling to feign enough swagger to
fool everyone that it is a power conference. So Aresco, the AAC commissioner,
has a vested interest in arguing against the concept of the existing real power
conferences.Second, Aresco has past connections to BYU.
Specifically, From 2008 to 2011, Aresco, as a member of its Board, helped shape
the strategic growth initiatives of The Mtn., the Denver-based regional sports
network devoted to the Mountain West Conference and jointly owned by CBS and
Comcast. Yes, The Mtn that many consider to be a joke. I think Aresco has
something to prove.Like Bronco, I would love to see BYU in the Big
12. I hate Independence. But I'm not so blinded by wishful thinking to
presume BYU is on the top of every conferences' expansion list.Let's try a little humility, Cougars.
What I can't stand are the comments that state that the P12 is regretting
adding Utah. Why on earth would someone have that assumption? That assumption
is either totally uneducated or just a case of sour grapes. Utah has been
competitive in both the revenue sports, mbb and football. Yes, the Utes went
5-7 last year but were a few plays away from winning 3 of those games. Anyone
with any football intellect could tell that the utes were competitive last year
(minus the USC game, that was dumpster fire). Utah is a school with great
academics and adds SLC market for the Pac 12 network. Yes, a lot of the games
are on the P12 network but that is way better than what was offered while in the
MWC and much better than the schools in the Big 12 and the ACC. Can you image
being a K-State or NC State fan and not being able so watch any of your games on
TV? The utes have it good. BYU has it........well, that's to be
determined. Hopefully this is the last article regarding BYU's begging and
pleading to get into a P5 conference.
I have a question about conference alignment. BYU is playing a lot of games
against the PAC 12 over the next few years. What are you UTE fans going to say
if BYU gets an invite into the PAC 12 as consolidation progresses over the next
Can't we use tithing to pay the other schools and join? I would just die
to see the responses from the LDS BYU-opposing loving followers!"if they invited BYU, they would be adding BYU-TV, which would lure
viewers away from regular sports broadcasters."They can always
make a deal that limits BYU's live broadcasting of games. BYU knows there
are national networks that bring in lots of money. BYU could always use its
station to have rebroadcast rights to games.
You know what would fix all of this? WINNING. Let me restate just for
emphasis... W-I-N-N-I-N-G. There is no reason to put lipstick on a 5-6 or 6-6 or
even 7-5 pig. BYU has been trying to get back into a conference from the moment
they went independent and until they win on a consistent basis, no one is going
to give them the time of day - and rightfully so. Revenue issues, television
viewership issues, travel distances, religion issues, Co-ed joke issues,
whatever, will magically go away the first two to three year stretch BYU puts
together at least a 10-2 win/loss in each season.
The lack of a conference championship game in the Big12 will help is some years
and hurt in others.For example, if Oklahoma goes 12-0 in the regular
season not having to play a Big12 Championship game will help them as they
won't have to risk a loss. But if in another year Texas goes
11-1 during the regular season (losing to Oklahoma), they don't have a
chance to avenge their loss in a CCG and they may get passed over for the
playoff for another one loss teams that had a high profile victory in their CCG,
especially if that victory avenged their only loss. For ezample a one loss USC
team beats Oregon in the PAC-12 conference championship after losing to Oregon
in the regular season.
Jeff,Interesting question but never going to happen. And here is
whyPlay on Sundays - I worked at the UCLA Athletic department while
in grad school and I can't express how important Sunday events are to the
P12. Sundays are huge for the olympic sports (especially for attendance) and the
P12 would never consider not playing on Sundays. The WWC was willing to
accommodate BYU but the P12 would not.BYUtv - If BYU would be
willing to give up BYUtv, then there would be a more of a possibility of BYU
joining. The P12 will not allow one school (especially a new school) to have
their own tv deal. Some others would say it's more about
academics and general fit. Those are good reasons but not deal breakers. The
reasons above are the real deal breakers of which neither side would be willing
to give up. Also, there is no way that the P12 would just add BYU
as you have to have a travel partner. They would have to add one other regional
school to balance it out. Please don't say Boise....Boise is a train wreck
in academics and other olympic sports.
giantfanFarmington, UTWhat this article fails to mention is the
impact that a conference championship game has on revenue. Adding Utah and
Colorado did not add enough in monetizing TV rights to make those moves by
themselves attractive (The Pac-12 didn't need Utah and Colorado to create
the Pac-12 Network). -------You've missed the point
of the article.Adding Utah and Colorado allowed them to stage a
title game. But it also added the Salt Lake and Denver TV markets... and as the
article states, the Pac 12 then receives $1 per month for every subscriber it
adds to the conference footprint. That's when adding markets like SLC and
Denver really bring in the money.So in this aspect, Utah brought a
lot of value to the Pac 12.
TajemnicaSanta Monica, CAAlabama could ask to join and they
wouldn't get in because of the idiocy in the BIG 12 allowing the longhorn
network to proceed.----------I don't think so.
Teams like Alabama and Notre Dame would be accepted into the Big 12 immediately
because those brands are powerful enough to add revenue to the conference
without going through the TV model.Those teams are A+ grade elite
teams. And their value to any conference is clear enough that they could get in
anywhere because they have a lot of money behind them.
Can we start having articles about USU going to ACC?
Benderman1Layton, UTEither way, THANK YOU for proving how
relevant BYU is. ----------You mean making BYU relevant
to Utah fans? Yeah, sure. I suppose that's what it does.You
mean making BYU relevant in national college football?Asking that
question alone is laughable.
kitsutsukiSouth Jordan, UtahRespect the 12(pac) - If the PAC12 could
they would drop Utah from the PAC12 in lieu of Alabama any day.---------Of course they would. What's your point?
@Taysom4HeismanI am a Ute fan. I have been a Ute fan for 40+ years.
I really don't care one way or the other if BYU joins a conference. I
have not nor will I ever tell any BYU fan that the BIG12 doesn't want you.
Jeff lsFarr West, 84404I have a question about conference alignment.
BYU is playing a lot of games against the PAC 12 over the next few years. What
are you UTE fans going to say if BYU gets an invite into the PAC 12 as
consolidation progresses over the next decade?----------I think the chances are greater that the Earth will collide with the sun and
burn up.So there's really no reason to think about that
@ Jeff lsIf BYU got invited to the PAC I think most Ute fans would
be happy about it, and it would restore the annual rivalry game in November
where it belongs. However, I think such an invite is very unlikely.
@81UteThank you. I hope the rest of the ute fans follow your
example. I think your "Got it?" at the end of your comment was a little
uncalled for, but I appreciate that you aren't telling me that the Big 12
doesn't want to expand right now.
@taylormade "is there ever going to be a relevent article posted
about the UTES that we can read about ? just wondering as they are a football
team from the state of Utah as well."Maybe when the UTES are
@FatMan86West Jordan, UTCorrection Chris B, it was assumed
that Utah would add value to the Pac 12. Clearly so far they haven't. The
Big 12 can see what a huge mistake the PAC made with the Utes. They will not
make the same mistake with BYU.--------------Yet they
added TCU? Maybe because TCU wasn't demanding Tier 3 rights? Smart move
by the Big 12, considering giving teams Tier 3 rights lowers less revenues for
the conference overall.
@Mormon UteOne good thing for BYU mentioned at the beginning of the
article is the talk from several conferences who have stated they fully intend
for their schools to regularly schedule BYU. This does two things, First it
ensures that BYU will likely have enough high quality opponents going forward to
survive as an independent for longer than some expected. It also puts pressure
on the ACC and the SEC to rethink their positions on BYU.-----------The SEC and ACC are not preventing their teams from
scheduling BYU, just like Big 12, Big 10, and PAC-12. They just said that since
their teams only play 8 conference games they must also play one P5 team. And
that P5 teams are defined as playing in a P5 league or Notre Dame. The only reason the Big 10 (in 2016), PAC-12, Big 12, have no such definition
for BYU is because they all play 9 P5 teams each year during conference play.The SEC and ACC will rethink their position on playing 8 conference
games before they ever give BYU P5 status. The only way BYU gets P5 status is
to join a P5 league, just like every other school not named Notre Dame.
311Ute, Great post. I had no idea Sunday play was so important to the
PAC12. I agree that BYU to the PAC12 is never gonna happen.
Utah bet hope the Big12 does not get the green light to proceed with a
championship game. If they do, I look for the PAC12 to shed 2 teams. Any
guesses which two those will be?
BYU will never be part of the PAC12 as long as Cal is. For a team to be added
it must be unanimous and Cal stated specifically that they would never add a
school with religious affiliation. This is the true reason BYU was not invited
in the first place. And, yes, Ute fans, like it or not, the PAC12 wanted BYU
first, before Utah, but Cal would not agree, hence the Utes invite. You can cry
all you want and say whatever you want, but those are the FACTS, and no talking
can ever change them.
@ Brave sir.The real reason the Big 12/BYU relationship isn't
going to work: The Big 12 simply doesn't want BYU.Two years ago you
guys had your chance to get into the Big 12 - you blew it.Once again
you willfully misrepresent the facts. When will you stop? The fact
is, BYU was never in consideration to blow anything.
@ perspective"The Big 12 simply can't afford to add
BYU" That isn't what the Big12 said. They said they are not
interested in adding byu.Once again, you, like Brave Sir willfully
misrepresent the facts. Fact, What Ryan Teeples said is exactly what
the big twelve commissioner said as well as many of the AD's of the member
This will go 100+ comments before the night is over.
TCU was admitted into the BIG 12 because they won a BCS game. BYU can't
expect any different treatment. Win your in. Lose your out..and you stay out til
you win. BYU has got to load up its schedule year in and year out otherwise they
will be left out permanently. No one cares if they beat Houston or Nevada.
Everyone cares if they beat Wisconsin and Notredame.
BYU has been talking big all off season about the big 12. Time to put our level
of play where our mouth is to back up our claims of being an attractive option.
When we BYU fans diss Utah as unworthy to be in the PAC 12 we need to remember
that we have never beaten them since they have been in th PAC 12, so what
evidence is there that BYU would be any more worthy at this point than Utah to
be in a P5. We have consistently choked on the field against a team that so
many of us have claimed was never worthy of going to a P5. We would have a
similar record as Utah, if you look at how,we did against ND and Wisconsin last
year. Just sad we don't have this year to exercise the demons of the last
4 years of rivalry losses...ugh! Hope Utah loses to whoever they replaced us
with to soften up their schedule, that would be classic!
@ CougFaninTXI'm pretty sure the PAC-12 can't drop teams.
Also, as far as I've seen the PAC-12 has never expressed any displeasure
with CU and Utah so I highly doubt the scenario you described will become
reality.@ BYU9293The PAC-12 wanted BYU? When was that?
I've never read or seen anything that said the PAC was interested in BYU.
Would you please back up your claim?
An enlightening article.BYU has a lot of fans so I'm sure that
we could add a lot of value. I'm not sure how these contracts work, but I
would hope if the Big 12 expanded that adding extra games and a championship
game would add significant revenue.BYU should give up tier 3 rights
as well if given the opportunity to join the Big 12, but hopefully be able to
retain rebroadcast rights for BYUtv for later that night etc or to any games the
Big 12 didn't want to air on a Big 12 network.
The big 12 simply doesn't want to expand.The Big 12 teams
simply like playing every other team in the conference every year.If
the Big 12 was to expand, for whatever reason, they would simply look east.That is what the commissioner simply stated months ago.But
some of the local media and a lot byu fans simply won't listen.
If the tier rights and current contracts are the issue why not just ignore them?
BYU joins with provision that they don't share in the current B12 tier 1
& 2 rights. BYU is fine because it has its ESPN contract. Sure it
doesn't make BYU 20 million but its ESPN deal makes it so BYU is fine
money-wise. B12 and BYU continue with their current contracts till the B12
contract runs out and then all can be renegotiated. You have to think that ESPN
would want to renew BYU's contract if it was in the B12. I guess there is
still the problem of finding a 12th team but weirder things have gone on in
college football than having an 11 team conference. Maybe there is contractual
language that prevents this but it seems worth discussing.
I'm late to the party and I don't have the interest to wade through
all the comments, but what I did read appears that our Utah brethren are so
interested in rubbing BYU's nose in any and everything that they blindly
miss a significant fact:The Big 12 is in a severe competitive
disadvantage with the other P-5 conferences, and will be for so long that
extinction would seem guaranteed. This cannot continue very long before what is
left is the P-4, and everybody else, including the Big 12. The next round of
conference shuffling would almost assuredly see the demise of the Big 12.Maybe that's why the sky was falling at the Big 12 Media Days, and
not so much for the others.
Obviously the Big 12 commissioner is going to say "We are not interested or
actively looking to expand at this time." because that makes the conference
appear fine with how the revenue is split. If he spoke "the truth",
"that we actually killed ourselves by giving away the tier 3 rights and
allowing Texas to create the Longhorn station", then they admit they messed
up. Big 12 would be interested in expanding, but messed up the tier 3 rights. Do
you know how much money a conference championship game brings into the
conference? Why do you think "traditional old school" conferences such
as the Pac 10 and Big 10 expanded and added a championship game? Championship
game= MONEY!! Big 12 was one of the first to have a championship game, now they
throw out the motto "one true champion." They will be forced to have a
championship game once they get left out of a playoff game. And to get a
championship game, they will have to expand. However you look at it, BYU is the
"best looking girl" left at the party so you take her. Now just win
College football is becoming a mess! There are going to be 30 Division 1 teams
someday and boosters will be able to pay for the best recruits. I hope
Tucson winds up in that group of"HAVES" when the music stops.
Maybe Utah and BYU will wind up in the same league again someday. I'll
still watch them play those TIER 3 games, maybe even against my Wildcats.
College football was great while it lasted. We still hope DIRECT TV will get the
Pac12 network before our beloved college football becomes semi-pro
football full of greedy Jagoffs.Good luck to BYU and Utah I always root
for the schools with good kids who actually attendcollege.
Reading this article again reminds me of what a mess college football has become
(a tier 3 mess).
@perspectiveI guess you don't like to deal with logic... From
your comment it appears that you think that a Conference Commissioner will
openly explain these type of financial issues in a press conference and frankly
that's ridiculous... If Teeples is right, it makes perfect sense that they
would not introduce or discuss that topic in a news conference... You have a tendency to make a lot of assumptions and state them as facts...
Especially when it comes to BYU Football... and your accuracy is almost
non-existent... For example, you claim that DN has attended all of the P5 News
conferences asking questions about their League's relationship with BYU and
that's the only reason BYU is even brought up... What's your sources
(or I should say source) for such a statement? I am guessing that there is no
such source and that the DN more than likely didn't attend any of them with
the exception of maybe the big bad pac12 out of deference to the under
performing program on the hill.Your serve.
BYU has a tremendous asset in BYUtv with access to millions of homes in the US.
This network could be used by the Big 12 for Tier 3 broadcasts for all the
schools other than Texas. They could let other schools use the BYU live feed and
let those schools use their own announcers which they already have. BYU should
use this asset in their negotiations with the Big 12.
Nice article Ryan. Thanks for explaining why the Big 12 can't afford to add
BYU, or any other school for that matter, at this time.Obviously,
Chris B isn't capable of actually reading an article before spouting off,
or she would have known that the Big 12's reluctance to expand has
absolutely nothing to do with BYU, per se.
The BYU/Big-12 hysteria really needs to die. BYU is a very good mid-major team
and should be content with that. I would rather be a good mid-major team that
goes to bowl games than a bad P-5 team that watches bowl games like our Utah
I'm waiting for the DN article entitled "Utah fans simply can't
leave BYU alone." Of course some will counter that BYU fans can't leave
Utah fans alone, but BYU fans are not the ones boasting about being in a better
conference than Utah, that Utah is not a power 5 team, that Utah football is
going to dive into obscurity or even be done away with altogether. Utah hasn't moved on from BYU. BYU is Utah's security blanket. Utah
will never do anything in the PAC-12 until they finally move on...just like they
say they have, and never post on BYU articles again. Otherwise, what can we say?
Utah is too into anything BYU.
Fatman86"Correction Chris B, it was assumed that Utah would add
value to the Pac 12. Clearly so far they haven't. The Big 12 can see what a
huge mistake the PAC made with the Utes. They will not make the same mistake
with BYU."Actually, Utah does add value to the PAC-12. PAC-12
conference flags, bumper stickers, and memorabilia sales has skyrocketed in Salt
Lake City since Utah joined. Not to mention Utah fans would pay top dollar to
watch Utah lose to yet another team on the PAC-12 network.
To me, it is interesting that so many utes find the time to comment on BYU
articles. Why do you care? Personally, I never comment on or even have the time
to read ute football articles. I think that BYU lives in your heads and you
can't just move on. Of course, as bottom feeders in the PAC, the ute
articles aren't as interesting as nationally relevant BYU. Why don't
you just move on?
@ Chris BThis is unlike Utah, of course, who DID add enough value to
the Pac 10 to justify an invitation.You're kidding right? What
value? Canon fodder for the USC's and UCLA's of the league? THE only
reason your team (and Colorado) was invited was for 2 simple reasons; 1)Putting
a patsy on the schedule and 2) getting to 12 teams to have a conference title
game. That's it, pure and simple.
With all of the angst created in Ute Nation every time BYU to the Big 12 is even
mentioned, can't wait to see the mass hysteria that will ensue on the hill
when BYU is actually invited to join the Big 12.
Taysom4Heisman,You need to be careful in how you are twisting your
stats. It isn't really true that BYU is the 15th most watched college
football team in the country. What is true is that BYU is 15th in number of
games nationally televised. They only manage that, because all the games on
BYUtv are considered national broadcasts. When you look at actual viewership,
it is a different story. The SL Tribune's TV reporter noted last season
that several of Utah's Pac 12 televised games drew a larger audience
according to the Nielsen ratings than some of BYU's games on BYUtv. Having
BYUtv in most homes in the country doesn't mean all those homes are
Taysom4Heisman,You make a good point about BYU needing to position
itself for the invitation. After Utah got invited to the Pac 12 it was reported
in the local media that Utah's President and Athletic Director had been
working behind the scenes for several years developing alliances and
relationships with Pac 12 members and actively courting the Pac 12 in hopes of
an invitation. BYU should definitely be working to lay the ground work for a
CougarSunDevilPhoenix, AZ said:"Actually, Utah does add
value to the PAC-12. PAC-12 conference flags, bumper stickers, and memorabilia
sales has skyrocketed in Salt Lake City since Utah joined. Not to mention Utah
fans would pay top dollar to watch Utah lose to yet another team on the PAC-12
network."And BYU fans pay top dollar to watch BYU lose to ranked
teams on ESPN. And then watch the reruns on BYUTVAs been said many times
before, Utah ads value beyond football. Especially thru research and federal
grant projects. They were chosen, BYU was not. Get over it.In
addition, it's funny how BYU fans like yourself ignore economic impact
studies how PAC 12 membership benefits the state of Utah itself. Since leaving
the MWC, the economic impact has increased 60% based on overall dollars spent by
fans of visiting teams. Can BYU say the same? No way. I would bet that
BYU's economic value to the state has decreased since going independent.
How many times are you going to schedule Idaho St? They don't have the fan
base to travel and spend to begin with.
Jeff 1s,While I have good friends amongst the Utes who disagree with
me, I am one Ute fan who would be delighted to see BYU be invited to the Pac 12.
That doesn't mean I think it will happen, but I think it would inject some
great positive energy back into the rivalry.The sad reality is it
won't likely happen. The Pac 12 prides itself on the reputation for great
graduate programs and research at its member institutions and BYU has
intentionally focused undergraduate education more than research and graduate
programs. Also any expansion the Pac 12 would seek will likely involved
expanding its reach into other TV markets. The U gives them the Wasatch Front
market and BYU wouldn't bring a new TV market to the table. That is likely
one of the reasons they didn't bring both Utah and BYU in initially.
WVU signed a tier 3 deal with IMG last year that pays WVU $86.5 million total
over the next 12 years.The idea that the Big 12 "ONLY" gets
TV money from the network deals is just W-R-O-N-G.West Virginia has
1.8 million people, and it largest TV market is only #65 in the country. Yet
they can garner an $86.5 million dollar deal for their tier 3 rights.The B12 network deals will grow to $40 million per team, per year by the end
of the current contract. That part was conveniently left out of the article as
well.I am all in favor of have a scheduling agreement with BYU and
the B12. 5 games a year, rotating teams each year. But the clear picture right
now is that the B12 is not interested in expanding with BYU as a target.
FatMan86,Really? You think Utah hasn't added any value to the
Pac 12? Take a look at the Nielsen ratings for Ute football and basketball
games on the Pac 12 Network, ESPN and Fox. You will find the Ute's TV
audience is pretty solid. Since the size of the TV audience is what dictates
advertising revenues, the Utes definitely have brought value to the Pac 12 by
giving it the Wasatch Front TV market and thusly enhancing the revenue picture
in the TV contracts.
upinthenightYou're ignoring the fact that BYU has a MUCH larger
fanbase nationally and in Utah, so the economic impact on the state of Utah
would be much greater if BYU had been invited to the PAC 12, instead of Utah.The truth is the PAC 12 settled for Utah and Colorado because a couple
of members didn't want to be associated with religiously affiliated schools
like BYU and Baylor.It's laughable that a Utah fan would bring
up Idaho State, when Utah starts EVERY season with a Big Sky opponent, including
Idaho State this season.
""Fans and media want the big 12 to add byu"Well,
that's cherry picking now isn't it.Correction: BYU fans
the BYU media want the big 12 to add byu"@Chris B.Correction: according to a survey taken on ESPN, fans DO want to add BYU. You
might say that lots and lots of BYU fans must have voted on that article, but
you have to realize that some Utah fans probably went and voted no as well. In
addition, Big 12 fans voted on it. Are you suggesting there are more BYU fans
than fans of all the Big 12 schools combined?Conclusion: Big 12 fans
want BYU in.I wonder if in 2010 ESPN had taken a PAC-10 poll asking
"Should the PAC-10 invite Utah?", if that would get 70+% saying yes.
deductive reasoningArlington, VA said:"With all of the
angst created in Ute Nation every time BYU to the Big 12 is even mentioned,
can't wait to see the mass hysteria that will ensue on the hill when BYU is
actually invited to join the Big 12."Doubt it. BYU has been
passed over by not only the BIG 12 but other conferences. You were not only the
1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th choice.....you are nothing. The mass hysteria will come
from BYU fans. Also, why would you get excited when you have been passed over to
begin with. They did not want you before, why would you accept them now?If
anything, there are Utah fans out there that feel a little sorry for the program
without an identity in Provo.
CougarSunDevil,LOL. How funny. BYU is Utah's security
blanket? Really? Somehow we managed to get into the Pac 12 without BYU and we
are going to survive two consecutive football seasons without playing BYU. Then
in 2016 we will resume our winning ways over BYU until the Cougars finally
decided enough is enough and ask to be released from any scheduling
agreement.That last part is somewhat tongue in cheek, but I just
wanted to illustrate how ridiculous your claim is. We are rivals, but we are
not dependent on each other for success or failure.
I could care less...I like being independent. I do not miss fans and players
we faced in the MWC. We certainly do not need games with Utah. (A win means
nothing, a loss ruins the season). I like to see the Cougars play around the
country where more folks can go to the games. At these games fans are treated
well and it is a fun experience...we can always play at Wyoming in November, but
who wants to? I favor independence over conference. The MWC is still living
off BYU. I do not see any value in splitting revenue up 12 ways. Even if we
have a smaller check, we get to keep it all.
nightdude"BYU has been passed over by not only the BIG 12 but
other conferences."What other conferences?The only
OTHER conference was the PAC 12.The Big East would have taken BYU in
a heartbeat. The AAC would still take BYU in a heartbeat. The ACC, Big Ten and
SEC are simply too far away geographically to be a reasonably good fit.The thing that's really laughable about all of this conference
affiliation chest beating by our little brothers, is the excellence of
BYU's athletic programs, which are far superior to Utah's, has never
been an issue.The main sticking points to BYU joining the PAC 12 or
Big 12 have been research, no Sunday play, and television rights issues.
Everybody knows that, and the constant claims by our little brothers that the
quality of BYU's athletic programs is even a slight factor is complete
deductive reasoning"With all of the angst created in Ute Nation
every time BYU to the Big 12 is even mentioned, can't wait to see the mass
hysteria that will ensue on the hill when BYU is actually invited to join the
Big 12."LOL!So true.The sheer volume of
Utah fan comments on every BYU article that even mentions the Big 12 is proof of
Thanks Ryan for pointing out in detail one of the real drivers behind the
current college football landscape. Unfortunately in today's world,
it's not the athletes, universities or fans that count. Just the dollars.
TrueBlueOrem, UTupinthenightYou're ignoring the
fact that BYU has a MUCH larger fanbase nationally and in Utah, so the economic
impact on the state of Utah would be much greater if BYU had been invited to the
PAC 12, instead of Utah.The truth is the PAC 12 settled for Utah and
Colorado because a couple of members didn't want to be associated with
religiously affiliated schools like BYU and Baylor.It's
laughable that a Utah fan would bring up Idaho State, when Utah starts EVERY
season with a Big Sky opponent, including Idaho State this season.__________Who cares other than a BYU fan making up excuses. You
are not in the Pac 12, your national fan base does not fill up lolly pop
stadium. A majority of fans are from the greater Provo area. That does not add
to the economy. Those dollars are not from out of the area.Utah does
not depend on the "Band of Buddies" to fill out its schedule every year.
Notice the article highlighting an an agreement between BYU & Idaho St? You
guys own that side of the road.
This is all laughable. BYU needs a home, yes, but gone are the days of an
occasional nationally broadcast game with the rest on KSLtv. It seems
they're dealing with it the best they can.I wonder if BYU will
get to the point of no major TV contract and pushing ALL home games on BYUtv. I
know selling ads for BYUtv might be the wrench in that machine.
Marked it DownPark City, UTnightdude"BYU has been
passed over by not only the BIG 12 but other conferences."What
other conferences?The only OTHER conference was the PAC 12.The Big East would have taken BYU in a heartbeat. The AAC would still take BYU
in a heartbeat. The ACC, Big Ten and SEC are simply too far away geographically
to be a reasonably good fit.__________Exactly, what
other conferences? That's the point. They are not talking about adding you,
they don't want you = passed up by adding other schools.Hello!
The Big East and ACC are farther away than the SEC is. Ever look at a map?
@ChrisBThe Pac-12 talk is getting old. The PAC-10 didn’t even
want Utah to begin with, Utah was a filler because Texas backed out. The PAC-10
took Colorado over you, now that has to hurt doesn’t it. The wanted
Colorado over Utah. They took Colorado and went after Texas. Utah was never
even thought of until Texas decided to stay in the Big-12 for TV and money
reasons. Utah was a filler to the PAC-10. So quite talking about how you
belong and attacking BYU about you being a top tier program. BYU is big enough
to eat at the same table as Utah, no question. And you know it! But know the
history. GO BRUINS!!!
@ All other real and legitimate and true Utah fansDon't get me
wrong about my previous comment to ChrisB. I do believe that sooner rather than
later, Utah will be a contender in the PAC-12. It just takes time to develop
that recruiting base. They are already making strides in football and
basketball and was not all that bad in a tough baseball conference. And when
you can compete in the BIG 3 in any conference, you become a competitor. Do I
think this is their year to break out, no. But I do think it will come sooner
rather than later and I respect that. However, I think BYU deserves just as much
respect as Utah. I know the last 4 football years have not gone BYU's way,
but there was a long history when it did. They can still compete in the BIG 3
as well (Football, Basketball, Baseball) just as well as the Utes. GO BRUINS!!!
@CougarSunDevilActually, Utah does add value to the PAC-12. PAC-12
conference flags, bumper stickers, and memorabilia sales has skyrocketed in Salt
Lake City since Utah joined. Not to mention Utah fans would pay top dollar to
watch Utah lose to yet another team on the PAC-12 network.---------------Thank you Utah fans for supporting local businesses
even when your team is losing.-- Source: Utah Economy
wacpaddled"Who cares other than a BYU fan making up
excuses."You and the dozens of other BYU-obsessed kids on the
hill - as your constant spamming of every BYU article proves.btw, a
"reason" is not an "excuse".
@deductive reasoningIf a BYU fan says we were in the game and just 2
or 3 plays would have changed the outcome we are making excusesBut If a Utah fan says we were in the game and just 2 or 3 plays would have
changed the outcome they are competitive and on the rise in the Pac whateverSo if BYU says it, it is an excuseIf a Ute says it, it is a statement
Good article. That answered some questions I've had for a long time.You ute fans who claim to have moved on but haven't been able to do
so (you know who you are) should know better than to try and shamelessly push
the myth that the U was invited into the PAC based solely on two great seasons,
which were actually separated by four years, and bookended by many more years
where U have done absolutely nothing to boast about. It is like
saying the PAC bought a cheese burger in order to get the two pickles in it and
not because there is something great in each layer of the sandwich.I
guess the reality of who is really relevant and who isn't is so stark that
U guys don't really want to face it. You'd rather just keep nipping at
the heels of all things BYU.
TrueBlue,What evidences is there to suggest BYU wasn't invited
to the Pac 12 for religious reasons. I've heard that thrown about by BYU
fans a lot, but never seen anyone offer up any quotes from credible sources to
prove it. There are so many other reasons that religion doesn't even need
to come into the conversation. Please let the religious bigotry idea die and
stop trying to make BYU out to be a martyr school.
@Mormon UteYou bring up a good point about byutv. It is not a very
well-viewed channel even though it is technically a national network. However,
byutv only airs 1 game each year against our FCS opponent, which would not be
very well-viewed anyway, so it doesn't make that much of a difference.However, you are incorrect on BYU's ranking in viewership. They are
in fact the 15th most watched team in the nation, regardless of network. I will
admit that we have a huge advantage in the fact that every single one of our
games in the last 4 years has been nationally televised with the exception of
the Oregon State game in 2012. Not even Alabama or Florida State can say
that.So yes, it may be a bit of a skewed statistic since we are
always on ESPN, but when all is said and done we still have the 15th best TV
ratings in college football.
I think the writer of the article is being a bit misleading. The word
"BYU" would not have come up at any of the media days of the power 5
conferences, unless someone from the Desert News or KSL may have been assigned
to cover the event with the purpose of asking that specific question of whether
expansion will include Provo or do these big leagues consider BYU a somewhat
power team, and the answer was very clear. BYU was or is not any agenda.
Mormon Ute"What evidences is there to suggest BYU wasn't
invited to the Pac 12 for religious reasons."It's common
knowledge. Of course you're not going to find any official
sources from the PAC 12 to confirm that, but it's a well known fact that at
least a couple of PAC 12 presidents objected to the conference inviting any
religiously affiliated schools. That's why Colorado was quickly invited,
practically in the middle of the night, to shut Baylor out of the PAC 10 / Big
12 South merger talks, and the reason why Utah, with a weaker athletic program,
almost no football history, and a significantly smaller fanbase, was invited
instead of BYU.Sure, the PAC 12 insisted in public that they were
only looking for "research" schools, but curiously, there was never a
peep said about "research" when Oklahoma State and Texas Tech were being
considered, even though both schools had the exact same "high research"
standing as BYU.
So Cletus, did you change your name to steamroller?... You made a lot more sense
when you were Cletus?So Mendenhall planted the B12 seed as a
diversion for rules violations? Lol, now that's funny... You can't see
that kind of humor on SNL... Nope, you have to read ute fan comments on BYU
Football articles if you really want some entertainment.I love these
articles DN... It helps me keep up with the action in college football and it
saves me from going through the web to find information on BYU.As
for SOS for the Cougs? I think that their match ups this year are good... No one
can argue about the expected strength of the Longhorns... Boise State is
formidable... and UCF proved themselves very well last year by winning their
conference and by winning a BCS Bowl... The softer parts of the Coug's
schedule are the other two P5 teams that we play and the FCS team that we play
from Georgia (although you never know, ND State and Eastern WA... both FCS teams
showed the big bad P5 Conferences last year that maybe they weren't all
that big and bad)...
skywalkerPalo Alto, CAMormon Ute"What
evidences is there to suggest BYU wasn't invited to the Pac 12 for
religious reasons."It's common knowledge.Of
course you're not going to find any official sources from the PAC 12 to
confirm that, but it's a well known fact that at least a couple of PAC 12
presidents objected to the conference inviting any religiously affiliated
schools.-------------Why don't you quote someone
from ESPN or Fox Sports or CBS Sports that what you claim is a well known fact?
Quoting sources from Deseret News doesn't make it common knowledge or a
fact.I haven't read anything supporting your claim, I would
love to read if you have a valid source.
The premise of this article if factually incorrect. T3 revenue has absolutely
no impact on expansion. The reason(s) the Big 12 isn't expanding anytime
soon: #1 the unknown cost of the new model (pay for play, full cost of
attendance) until that is settled there will be absolutely no consideration for
expansion. #2 The Big 12 Championship Game has seen 6 presumptive champions
ranked in the Top 5 defeated. The CCG has left a bad taste in their mouths, and
unless the Playoff Committee penalizes the Big 12 for not having a CCG, no
reason to expand.When the B12 gets around to expanding (wont be for
a few years at least) they will be expanding in or near the SEC footprint (UCF,
ECU, Memphis) with schools that have 45K-50K seat stadiums and they fill them.
Whoever it is ANY 2 teams will pay for themselves CCG= $25 Million, 18 more
Conference games = $27 million.Won't be BYU. My guess is that
there are at least 5 Presidents who are not willing to share the wealth with the
GrayGranthamIt's easy to just make stuff up that fits your
biased view of the world, but do you have any legitimate sources to back up your
farcical claims, especially your final statement?
Mormon Ute@GrayGrantham "My guess is that there are at least 5
Presidents who are not willing to share the wealth with the Mormon
Church."It's out there, whether you're willing to
acknowledge it or not.
@TRollPolice I personally think BYU would be an excellent (Football
Only) addition to the Big 12. I do not believe that the President of
BU, TCU and WVU share that opinion. I said "My Guess"
(lookup definition of guess) is there are 5 Presidents who would not want to
share the wealth with the Mormon church. It only take 3 votes to
deny membership.source: google - Big 12 Bylaws 1.5.2
Actions Requiring the Vote of a Majority of Disinterested Directors and a
Supermajority of Disinterested Directors. (b) The following actions
may be taken only if approved by the affirmative vote of a Supermajority of
Disinterested Directors (as defined below): (3) Admission of a new
Member or amendment of Section (f) The term Supermajority of
Disinterested Directors; with respect to any issue shall mean
seventy-five percent (75%) or more of all persons who are Disinterested
Directors Director Proposing admission of BYU, by definition
becomes an "Interested Director" not eligible to vote. The
Supermajority threshold is 7 votes. Meaning any three Presidents (Baylor, TCU,
WVU) could vote it down. Do you think BU, TCU and WVU want to see
BYU in the Big 12? I don't
@nightowl in salem, orYour comments make me chuckle... How many
times are we going to schedule Idaho State... I'm guessing about the same
amount that the utes also schedule the Bengals and the fighting Wildcats from
Weber State... Maybe you ought to take a peak at this year's ute
schedule??? They couldn't schedule BYU but they found room for Idaho State?
lol.On your comment about increased revenue for the state of Utah
perhaps you can tell me your source for the claim that total Revs are up 60%?
One thing that I know for sure is that the utes still can't cover their
athletic expenses and still hits the poor taxpayers of Utah to make up for the
shortfall... So if they are up (which I doubt) expenses must also be up because
tax requirements for ute athletic revenue supplement is still alive and well.
A good analysis but I wonder about one critical point,"Without
the ability to collectively monetize those Tier 3 rights through subscriber
count like other conferences, the Big-12 distribution is limited to the $20
million per school it receives from its Tier 1 and 2 deals. Any additional
school added to the conference means less money per school. Period."Wouldn't this be false if BYU brings more than $20 million to the
Tier-1 / Tier-2 package, which would increase the $$$ each school receives? How
likely would BYU be to do that?
manaen2 Points #1 Big 12 Distribution is heavily dependent on T1
and T2 revenues (as well as NCAA tournament revenues) and T3 is NOT part of the
Distribution it is not widely known but the T1/T2 Revenues are graduated. They
start at the low end of approximately $25 million and graduate to approximately
$40 million per school by 2024.#2 Adding two schools to the
conference at face value is two more mouths to feed except:(a) Two more
teams add a CCG, which has been appraised at approximately $25 million in
value.(b) T1/T2 rights for football are based on broadcast inventory.
Ten Teams, 9 games each = 90 games. Adding two schools and keeping a 9 game
conference schedule adds 18 games to the broadcast inventory for T1/T2 revenues.
The Big 12 has renegotiation clauses in its T1/T2 broadcast contracts that
allow them to capture the additional value IF they expand. Most of the
estimates (unless your writing the check no one knows) I've seen appraise
broadcast inventory at anywhere between $500,000 and $1.5 million.Phasing in Conference Full Shares, for 2 Teams over 5 years $15M, $16M etc,
saves conf $10 million.It is not as insurmountable as some say.
poymanLincoln City, OR said@nightowl in salem, or"On
your comment about increased revenue for the state of Utah perhaps you can tell
me your source for the claim that total Revs are up 60%? One thing that I know
for sure is that the utes still can't cover their athletic expenses and
still hits the poor taxpayers of Utah to make up for the shortfall... So if they
are up (which I doubt) expenses must also be up because tax requirements for ute
athletic revenue supplement is still alive and well."It comes
from The Utah Department Community & Economic Development. And the same
study is linked on the University of Utah website.And you are
misunderstanding what I said. The 60% refers to outside dollars being spent in
the state of Utah, as a result of the Utes joining the PAC 12. In other words
traveling fans for all sports of other schools spending money ( lodging, gas,
food, shopping etc ). It's increased 60% more than when they were in the
MWC. That is not direct funding to the Ute athletic department.
Taysom4Heisman,You are still wrong about being 15th most watched.
Yes, that is the potential, but the Neilsen Ratings say it isn't actually
true and ESPN reserves the right to put BYU's games on any of its channels.
Last year at least two BYU games were on ESPNU and that channel gets into the
same number of homes nationwide as the Pac 12 Network, because it isn't in
basic cable packages like the main ESPN channels are. The Salt Lake
Tribune's TV reported noted that those BYU games on ESPNU drew smaller
audiences, according to the Nielsen Ratings, than the Ute's games on the
Pac 12 Network for the same weeks.
Pac Man.You went after the wrong guy. You quoted TrollPolice and I
only have one name on this board. Please try to keep that straight.
poymanLincoln City, OR@nightowl in salem, orYour
comments make me chuckle... How many times are we going to schedule Idaho
State... I'm guessing about the same amount that the utes also schedule the
Bengals and the fighting Wildcats from Weber State... Maybe you ought to take a
peak at this year's ute schedule??? They couldn't schedule BYU but
they found room for Idaho State? lol.-----------Are you
seriously laughing at the toughest schedule in the nation, according to ESPN?
If you want something to laugh at compare your 1984 schedule to your 2014
schedule.Correction, it's not that we "couldn't
schedule BYU" it's the fact that we "did not want to schedule
BYU". I think even you can see the difference.Fact is BYU
"couldn't" schedule Utah, see the reason above, and 3 other P5
teams so "they found room" for Savannah State, Middle Tennessee, UNLV,
@poymanIn 2011 alone it was estimated 5 football home games alone
generated around $5 million in direct revenue in the local economy. According
to USA Today from 2006 the subsidy is 24% of revenue, which was around $9
million in 2011. In 2011, it's a $4 million difference but
there's no exact amounts listed for taxes and student fees, just one sum.
No idea how much taxes were used to generate $5 million in direct revenue,
there's also the indirect benefits on the local economy:"The estimated total economic impacts to the state, both direct and
indirect…. The impacts are measured by the number of supported jobs and
associated earnings, gross state product, state economic output, and state tax
revenue... Altogether, the five Pac-12 games of the 2011–2012 seasons
supported about 210 jobs with earnings over $5 million and over $500,000 of
state tax revenue" Source: Bureau of Economic and Business
ResearchIt seems, in a state dominated by Republicans only BYU fans,
like you, are worried about "poor taxpayers of Utah" being taken
advantage of by the Utah Athletic Department. May I suggest you move on to
another taxpayer cause?
As a WVU fan and grad, I do not believe there would be complete opposition to
BYU from the WVU camp if it were a matter of BYU being a "football only"
member. Any opposition from WVU would probably stem from travel for its other
non-football teams, or if it happened to be that the payout per team were
reduced by adding a team, BYU or otherwise.WVU and BYU are scheduled
to face off in D.C. next year, I believe. I would venture to guess that there
will be some conversation between the two schools on some level about the B12
and BYU, but at the end of the day, WVU is one school in a conference of 10, and
until we start pulling our weight in the league, I don't think our
administration would go against the consensus in the conference.
skywalker,You make me laugh. It's not a fact until you can
document it. All you have is speculation and it usually comes from BYU fans.
Even Darwin's theory is just that, a theory, because scientists
haven't uncovered enough evidence to call it a fact yet.As far
as Utah having almost no football history. I laugh out loud again. Not only does
Utah have more football history over the past 20 years than BYU with two BCS
bowl wins that brought the Utes two top 5 final national rankings, but we have
also won more head to head battles with BYU. Then if you look at the history
before Lavelle arrived at BYU the Utes dominated that as well. I'll grant
you BYU has a national title and that does mean something, but it was a long
time ago and it has been at least 5 years since BYU finished in the top 25.
Yes, the other leagues sell their Tier 3 rights collectively, but the payouts
per school can be much higher individually depending on the school. Texas makes
$10-15M/year on the Longhorn Network, Oklahoma makes about $7M/year on their
network. I haven't done the math but I'll bet that if you add up all
of the individual Big 12 schools' networks, the total and the average
probably comes out about the same as the other conferences, if not more.
But here's the primary reason why BYU won't get a Big 12 invitation:
the Big 12 is a relative bargain for the networks with the least expensive TV
contracts. But it adds up to more money for its individual members because money
is only split 10 ways. If you add another school like BYU, that split decreases
for each member. THAT is the main reason why BYU will NOT be invited to the Big
12/why there is no incentive to expand the conference.
There are other reasons too. If BYU were added, the Big 12 schools would not be
able to play every other member school in the same season unless everyone
sacrificed a non-conference game from their schedule, which isn't likely to
happen. So, they'd have to expand to 12 teams and there aren't any
other economically logical programs available to get to 12 members.
Finally, BYU refuses to play games on Sundays. The Big 12 will not adjust the
schedules of the other 10 members in a number of sports to accommodate BYU,
especially when the other 2 religious schools will play on Sunday. Simply put,
BYU's inflexibility on this matter has kept and will keep BYU out of ALL of
the power 5 conferences. Unless BYU relents on this issue, they will have to
remain independent or join the AAC or Mountain West.
@JLB74I doubt BYU will ever get an invite to the Big 12, even as a
football only member. I disagree with some of your conclusions.ANY
two of the following schools would work financially for the Big 12: Memphis,
ECU, UCF, USF and BYU.The Big 12 media contracts are based on 90
football games. Adding two schools and keeping a 9 game schedule adds 18 games
to the broadcast inventory (@$1.5m per game thats $27m) . It also adds a
Conference Championship game ($25m). Since new members are phased in over time
they don't get $20-$25 million first year they start out at about $15m and
work their way up.Their is all kinds of financial wiggle room for
the Big 12 to make money by adding any of these 2 schools.