Quantcast
Sports

Teeples: The Big 12 simply can't afford to add BYU

Comments

Return To Article
  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    July 30, 2014 2:10 p.m.

    Another article!

    LOL!

    "Fans and media want the big 12 to add byu"

    Well, that's cherry picking now isn't it.

    Correction: BYU fans the BYU media want the big 12 to add byu

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    July 30, 2014 2:11 p.m.

    Awesome article. Thank you for explaining how tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3 games make money, I had no idea. BYUtv is great for fans but won't bring the B12 any money for those tier 3 games. I wonder if BYU would ever be willing to put their television studio on the table in B12 talks.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    July 30, 2014 2:11 p.m.

    Big 12 can't afford to add byu.

    Nice spin!

    Said differently:

    "BYU does NOT add enough value to justify inviting them?

    This is unlike Utah, of course, who DID add enough value to the Pac 10 to justify an invitation.

  • BigSkies Issaquah, WA
    July 30, 2014 2:13 p.m.

    This is a very enlightening article. I doubt, however, that it will have any impact on the trolls who love to state that BYU isn't worthy of being in a Power 5 conference.

  • giantfan Farmington, UT
    July 30, 2014 2:14 p.m.

    What this article fails to mention is the impact that a conference championship game has on revenue. Adding Utah and Colorado did not add enough in monetizing TV rights to make those moves by themselves attractive (The Pac-12 didn't need Utah and Colorado to create the Pac-12 Network). It was the fact that they could now hold a conference championship game and sell that as part of the TV rights package that made moving to 12 feasible. Right place. Right time. Congrats Utah!!

  • Respect the 12(Pac) Salt Lake, UT
    July 30, 2014 2:15 p.m.

    This is really laughable. I would humbly suggest byu EARN their way into a power conference through actions on the field rather than sit outside and beg day after day. I'm just guessing the Big 12 finds the begging silly and unprofessional.

    Try going undefeated a few times over a decade or so and then start talking about whether you deserve to be invited.

    As of now, you do not!

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    July 30, 2014 2:17 p.m.

    The real reason the Big 12/BYU relationship isn't going to work: The Big 12 simply doesn't want BYU.

    Two years ago you guys had your chance to get into the Big 12 - you blew it. Now they wouldn't touch you with a hot branding iron.

  • FatMan86 West Jordan, UT
    July 30, 2014 2:17 p.m.

    I'm stunned by this. After the 300 articles in the past 2 weeks about how great BYU would fit in the BIG 12, I was sure it was a done deal.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    July 30, 2014 2:28 p.m.

    Good article, good explanation. When it makes sense for the Big 12 to add schools, it will happen, until then, BYU football is as strong as ever on their own without big brothers to support and abuse them. I wouldn't be surprised if the BYU tv network does come into play at some point. I would be surprised if Texas ever did anything to benefit the conference unless it gave them more of an advantage.

  • AFCoug Colorado Springs, CO
    July 30, 2014 2:36 p.m.

    So BYU would have it's own tier 3 rights within the Big 12 and could broadcast all the BYU vs Iowa St/K State/Kansas/TCU/West Virginia/Texas Tech on BYUtv. That offers no incentive to the Big 12 though. Could BYU in some way retain those tier 3 rights while taking a smaller portion of the tier 1 and 2 rights or maybe agree to televise Big 12 games on BYUtv. Does anyone watch K State vs Iowa St or pay for that game. If BYUtv bought the rights to these smaller tier 3 games they would in a sense be returning some of the money to those smaller schools in the BIG 12 that is paid out every year.

    So pay BYU $20M for tier 1 and 2 rights. BYUtv retains BYU's tier 3 rights. Additionally BYUtv pays for a few Big 12 tier 3 games each week essentailly helping the Kstate and Iowast of the league. BYUtv sells advertising for those games and BYU makes money that way to recoup buying those games.

  • BigSkies Issaquah, WA
    July 30, 2014 2:40 p.m.

    Let's be clear. The PAC 12 has a different revenue/TV model. Utah's "Value" to the PAC 12 was primarily because it allowed a championship game. I give props to Utah for their BCS Bowl Wins, but the comments from those who talk about Utah "earning" their way into the PAC 12 ring a bit hollow. I'll be much more receptive to that messaging after Utah accomplishes something in their new prestigious home.

  • Tajemnica Santa Monica, CA
    July 30, 2014 2:41 p.m.

    @Chris B

    Wow. You didn't read the article at all did you once again proving yourself uneducated and ill-informed. If you did read it you sure don't seem to have understood. The longhorn network is the reason the BIG 12 won't expand. It doesn't matter if it is BYU or any other school. Alabama could ask to join and they wouldn't get in because of the idiocy in the BIG 12 allowing the longhorn network to proceed.

  • WhoRtheUtes??? Elko, NV
    July 30, 2014 2:44 p.m.

    Everywhere I turn there is another article about the Cougs. Great time to be a Coug Fan. Still even will all the conference media days conversations, I find is interesting that Still nobody wants to discuss the utes.... I guess it is does make sense as the utes really have nothing for anyone to talk about. Well at least the Pac 12 will garner some attention with its top tier schools and the utes will get mentioned in those articles as the other teams rack up a win when the play the lowly utes. I guess at lease for that article they will be discussed. But, Mark it Down as the season progresses there will be many more articles calling for a new ute coaching staff.

  • Respect the 12(Pac) Salt Lake, UT
    July 30, 2014 2:48 p.m.

    tajemnica,

    Please tell us you're joking.

    If Alabama wanted to join the Big 12 - they'd be in next year. If you don't believe that, you are very naïve.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    July 30, 2014 2:55 p.m.

    The Big 12 is trying to get the NCAA to let them have a championship game without expanding to 12 teams. It will be interesting to see if they get what they want. I suspect they will, which will make expansion highly unlikely. It will also be interesting if this article proves to be the definitive word on the subject of BYU going to the Big 12.

  • FatMan86 West Jordan, UT
    July 30, 2014 2:56 p.m.

    Correction Chris B, it was assumed that Utah would add value to the Pac 12. Clearly so far they haven't. The Big 12 can see what a huge mistake the PAC made with the Utes. They will not make the same mistake with BYU.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 30, 2014 3:06 p.m.

    The rationale in this article makes sense. I didn't know the details of how the Big 12 TV deal was structured so this was helpful in understanding a major obstacle to Big 12 expansion.

    One good thing for BYU mentioned at the beginning of the article is the talk from several conferences who have stated they fully intend for their schools to regularly schedule BYU. This does two things, First it ensures that BYU will likely have enough high quality opponents going forward to survive as an independent for longer than some expected. It also puts pressure on the ACC and the SEC to rethink their positions on BYU.

    Maybe Tom Holmoe was right in keeping his optimistic outlook on BYU as an independent.

  • Ironhide Salt Lake City, UT
    July 30, 2014 3:06 p.m.

    Just win.

  • taylormade1 Springville, UT
    July 30, 2014 3:07 p.m.

    is there ever going to be a relevent article posted about the UTES that we can read about ? just wondering as they are a football team from the state of Utah as well.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 30, 2014 3:09 p.m.

    Does Teeples get paid to write this stuff?

    "The Big 12 simply can't afford to add BYU"

    That isn't what the Big12 said. They said they are not interested in adding byu.

    "But BYU fans have watched with keen interest as their school’s name has been mentioned in nearly every conference’s event."

    Right, because the Des News is there to ask questions and it is not done from the podium as the photos suggest.

    "The SEC, Big Ten, Pac-12 and SEC all have their own conference athletics TV networks, built for the purpose of broadcasting Tier 3 games."

    The SEC is listed twice.

    "But right now, there’s nothing the Big 12 or BYU can do to make a relationship work. The money just isn’t there."

    This statement simply advances the hypothesis upon which the article is built. The Big12 has clearly stated that they don't WANT to expand...

  • Oatmeal Woods Cross, UT
    July 30, 2014 3:12 p.m.

    IF the Big 12 gets a championship game added without the full 12 members, conference expansion is dead for the next decade and BYU could be trapped in independence. I see many MWC and AAC games in BYU's future.

    BYU could negotiate with the Big 12, in an attempt to make the Big 12's games with BYU pay via BYU-TV. Give the Big 12 a cut on games played in Provo when they are willing to play a 1-1?

  • truthlover Milwaukee, WI
    July 30, 2014 3:19 p.m.

    According to the Big 12, their teams make between $3 million and $15 million each in third tier deals. See "Big 12 Announces Record Revenue Distribution" on their website.

    So I don't know how "they can’t come close to making the money schools in other power conferences are making from theirs." The Big Ten Network makes the most per school @ $7.4 million per year at most. WVU got at least $6 million and maybe as much as $10 million per year for their third tier rights.

  • Benderman1 Layton, UT
    July 30, 2014 3:31 p.m.

    Chris B, you're so all over the place. Did you not read the article? Adding Utah was incentive enough to the PAC because they were able to add to their Tier 3 TV rights. It had nothing to do with Utah having a good program (if you disagree, please explain Colorado). It was about money and TV rights. Money drives all decisions in college football.

  • Benderman1 Layton, UT
    July 30, 2014 3:36 p.m.

    Chris B, whatever you do for a living, I want to do the same thing. Somehow, you are always the first to post on every article about BYU. You either sit around tapping your fingers until a BYU article is released or you have some sort of alert set. Either way, THANK YOU for proving how relevant BYU is. Relevancy can be measured by how much interest a program attracts from fans AND non-fans. We appreciate your support.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    July 30, 2014 4:00 p.m.

    It seems to me that BYU is a net-negative on the Big-12 from a TV programming standpoint, because BYU-TV is BYU's third tier TV "partner", and BYU-TV airing BYU home games is competition for regular sports programming.

    Not only does the Big-12 not have a conference-based Tier 3 network, they have the Longhorn Network (which diminishes the value of schools besides Texas) and if they invited BYU, they would be adding BYU-TV, which would lure viewers away from regular sports broadcasters.

    Adding BYU would make an undesirable situation worse.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    July 30, 2014 4:04 p.m.

    Henry Drummond
    San Jose, CA
    The Big 12 is trying to get the NCAA to let them have a championship game without expanding to 12 teams. It will be interesting to see if they get what they want. I suspect they will, which will make expansion highly unlikely. It will also be interesting if this article proves to be the definitive word on the subject of BYU going to the Big 12.

    __________

    No they won't get away with it. The SEC ACC & BIG 12 already have complained about that. They won't allow a school from the BIG 12 jump over them into the playoffs without a conference title game.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    July 30, 2014 4:05 p.m.

    BYU can still become a football only buddy. Notre Dame and the ACC. If BYU could pull off an agreement to play 5-6 BIG 12 teams a year. Who knows.

  • kitsutsuki South Jordan, Utah
    July 30, 2014 4:13 p.m.

    Respect the 12(pac) - If the PAC12 could they would drop Utah from the PAC12 in lieu of Alabama any day.

    Don't kid yourself into believing you are something that you aren't.

  • Hochmut West Jordan, UT
    July 30, 2014 4:25 p.m.

    With the lack of a Conference Championship 13th game in the Big 12, the chances of them getting into the playoff is simply less of an opportunity. Texas, OK, OK State etc will be more than miffed should Pac12 get a team; Big 10 get one and the SEC get two each year. There will be weeping and wailing and crying all over the Big12 as they sit without the big bucks. Soon the money will come in when they do expand. It is just a matter of time.

  • football43 Morgan, UT
    July 30, 2014 4:32 p.m.

    Benderman1,
    "Chris B, whatever you do for a living, I want to do the same thing."

    Funniest line in months.......

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 30, 2014 4:32 p.m.

    I agree that BYU does not add enough value to the Big 12 right now for them to expand.

    However, there is a decent possibility that at some point, the Big 12 will be forced to expand, in which case they would add the 2 most attractive options.

    If you look at it purely from a TV/Revenue standpoint, BYU blows any other non-P5 out of the water. We are the 15th most watched team in all of college football. I'm not sure where the next non-P5 comes in, but I do know that it's nowhere close to BYU. BYU also brings in more revenue than any of the non-P5 schools.

    Also, we are easily a top 5 football team from the non-P5 and have a great all-around athletic program.

    Are we good enough to be worth splitting the financial pie in the Big 12? No.

    But if and when the Big 12 is forced to expand, BYU is the best option.

  • SEC Rules Seminole, FL
    July 30, 2014 4:36 p.m.

    @ Chris B.

    Enough already, please find some other venue to dump on BYU.

    You consistently speak as if you were a life-long member of the PAC 10. You and the Utes are not. This is only your fourth year in the PAC, after spending years and years in the WAC and Mountain West. The reality is that you were invited to the PAC more by freak luck than anything you did, a third desperation choice to create a 6 team division in a 12 team conference.

    Now you are languishing in the bottom of the PAC 12 standings. And in light of this fact the commissioner of the PAC 12, who’s membership you love you so much, recently said: “They’re (BYU) a school that’s got a great reputation, a great history of success,” …“I’d consider it a high-quality matchup when our teams play against them. Hard to swallow, isn’t it? Some call it a cruel irony.

    If you don’t like the articles here, then the solution is simple. Don't read them, or find some other venue to dump on BYU.

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 30, 2014 4:41 p.m.

    To all the ute fans who keep telling us that the Big 12 doesn't want to expand, let me make this very very clear.

    We know.
    We know.
    We know.

    Is it clear yet?

    We know.
    We know.

    I don't think that will be enough for the ute fans to understand but I gave it my best.

    We very well understand that they don't want to expand. We aren't trying to force our way in right now. We are trying to position ourselves so that when the Big 12 does want/need to expand, we are the best option.

    Sure, there are some BYU fans who are delusional and think a Big 12 invite is just around the corner. Most of us, however, understand that it won't come until they actually are looking to expand. But I am absolutely in favor of positioning ourselves as favorably as possible to be ready for it.

    The worst thing BYU can do is sit quietly until the Big 12 looks to expand and then start acting interested in joining the Big 12.

    It is much better to jockey for a spot in the Big 12 a little early than a little late.

  • Y Ask Y Provo, UT
    July 30, 2014 4:47 p.m.

    The AAC mentioned BYU?

    Is that supposed to be an independent endorsement with which we should be impressed?

    First of all, the AAC is not a power conference itself, and is struggling to feign enough swagger to fool everyone that it is a power conference. So Aresco, the AAC commissioner, has a vested interest in arguing against the concept of the existing real power conferences.

    Second, Aresco has past connections to BYU. Specifically, From 2008 to 2011, Aresco, as a member of its Board, helped shape the strategic growth initiatives of The Mtn., the Denver-based regional sports network devoted to the Mountain West Conference and jointly owned by CBS and Comcast. Yes, The Mtn that many consider to be a joke. I think Aresco has something to prove.

    Like Bronco, I would love to see BYU in the Big 12. I hate Independence. But I'm not so blinded by wishful thinking to presume BYU is on the top of every conferences' expansion list.

    Let's try a little humility, Cougars.

  • 311ute Reno, NV
    July 30, 2014 4:56 p.m.

    What I can't stand are the comments that state that the P12 is regretting adding Utah. Why on earth would someone have that assumption? That assumption is either totally uneducated or just a case of sour grapes. Utah has been competitive in both the revenue sports, mbb and football. Yes, the Utes went 5-7 last year but were a few plays away from winning 3 of those games. Anyone with any football intellect could tell that the utes were competitive last year (minus the USC game, that was dumpster fire). Utah is a school with great academics and adds SLC market for the Pac 12 network. Yes, a lot of the games are on the P12 network but that is way better than what was offered while in the MWC and much better than the schools in the Big 12 and the ACC. Can you image being a K-State or NC State fan and not being able so watch any of your games on TV? The utes have it good. BYU has it........well, that's to be determined. Hopefully this is the last article regarding BYU's begging and pleading to get into a P5 conference.

  • Jeff ls Farr West, 84404
    July 30, 2014 5:00 p.m.

    I have a question about conference alignment. BYU is playing a lot of games against the PAC 12 over the next few years. What are you UTE fans going to say if BYU gets an invite into the PAC 12 as consolidation progresses over the next decade?
    Jeff

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    July 30, 2014 5:18 p.m.

    Can't we use tithing to pay the other schools and join? I would just die to see the responses from the LDS BYU-opposing loving followers!

    "if they invited BYU, they would be adding BYU-TV, which would lure viewers away from regular sports broadcasters."

    They can always make a deal that limits BYU's live broadcasting of games. BYU knows there are national networks that bring in lots of money. BYU could always use its station to have rebroadcast rights to games.

  • Bifftacular Spanish Fork, Ut
    July 30, 2014 5:43 p.m.

    You know what would fix all of this? WINNING. Let me restate just for emphasis... W-I-N-N-I-N-G. There is no reason to put lipstick on a 5-6 or 6-6 or even 7-5 pig. BYU has been trying to get back into a conference from the moment they went independent and until they win on a consistent basis, no one is going to give them the time of day - and rightfully so. Revenue issues, television viewership issues, travel distances, religion issues, Co-ed joke issues, whatever, will magically go away the first two to three year stretch BYU puts together at least a 10-2 win/loss in each season.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    July 30, 2014 5:50 p.m.

    The lack of a conference championship game in the Big12 will help is some years and hurt in others.

    For example, if Oklahoma goes 12-0 in the regular season not having to play a Big12 Championship game will help them as they won't have to risk a loss.

    But if in another year Texas goes 11-1 during the regular season (losing to Oklahoma), they don't have a chance to avenge their loss in a CCG and they may get passed over for the playoff for another one loss teams that had a high profile victory in their CCG, especially if that victory avenged their only loss. For ezample a one loss USC team beats Oregon in the PAC-12 conference championship after losing to Oregon in the regular season.

  • 311ute Reno, NV
    July 30, 2014 5:58 p.m.

    Jeff,

    Interesting question but never going to happen. And here is why

    Play on Sundays - I worked at the UCLA Athletic department while in grad school and I can't express how important Sunday events are to the P12. Sundays are huge for the olympic sports (especially for attendance) and the P12 would never consider not playing on Sundays. The WWC was willing to accommodate BYU but the P12 would not.

    BYUtv - If BYU would be willing to give up BYUtv, then there would be a more of a possibility of BYU joining. The P12 will not allow one school (especially a new school) to have their own tv deal.

    Some others would say it's more about academics and general fit. Those are good reasons but not deal breakers. The reasons above are the real deal breakers of which neither side would be willing to give up.

    Also, there is no way that the P12 would just add BYU as you have to have a travel partner. They would have to add one other regional school to balance it out. Please don't say Boise....Boise is a train wreck in academics and other olympic sports.

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 30, 2014 6:00 p.m.

    giantfan
    Farmington, UT
    What this article fails to mention is the impact that a conference championship game has on revenue. Adding Utah and Colorado did not add enough in monetizing TV rights to make those moves by themselves attractive (The Pac-12 didn't need Utah and Colorado to create the Pac-12 Network).

    -------

    You've missed the point of the article.

    Adding Utah and Colorado allowed them to stage a title game. But it also added the Salt Lake and Denver TV markets... and as the article states, the Pac 12 then receives $1 per month for every subscriber it adds to the conference footprint. That's when adding markets like SLC and Denver really bring in the money.

    So in this aspect, Utah brought a lot of value to the Pac 12.

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 30, 2014 6:04 p.m.

    Tajemnica
    Santa Monica, CA

    Alabama could ask to join and they wouldn't get in because of the idiocy in the BIG 12 allowing the longhorn network to proceed.

    ----------

    I don't think so. Teams like Alabama and Notre Dame would be accepted into the Big 12 immediately because those brands are powerful enough to add revenue to the conference without going through the TV model.

    Those teams are A+ grade elite teams. And their value to any conference is clear enough that they could get in anywhere because they have a lot of money behind them.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    July 30, 2014 6:05 p.m.

    Can we start having articles about USU going to ACC?

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 30, 2014 6:10 p.m.

    Benderman1
    Layton, UT

    Either way, THANK YOU for proving how relevant BYU is.

    ----------

    You mean making BYU relevant to Utah fans? Yeah, sure. I suppose that's what it does.

    You mean making BYU relevant in national college football?

    Asking that question alone is laughable.

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 30, 2014 6:12 p.m.

    kitsutsuki
    South Jordan, Utah
    Respect the 12(pac) - If the PAC12 could they would drop Utah from the PAC12 in lieu of Alabama any day.

    ---------

    Of course they would. What's your point?

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    July 30, 2014 6:15 p.m.

    @Taysom4Heisman

    I am a Ute fan. I have been a Ute fan for 40+ years. I really don't care one way or the other if BYU joins a conference. I have not nor will I ever tell any BYU fan that the BIG12 doesn't want you. Got it?

  • Tomahawk Red San Francisco, CA
    July 30, 2014 6:16 p.m.

    Jeff ls
    Farr West, 84404
    I have a question about conference alignment. BYU is playing a lot of games against the PAC 12 over the next few years. What are you UTE fans going to say if BYU gets an invite into the PAC 12 as consolidation progresses over the next decade?

    ----------

    I think the chances are greater that the Earth will collide with the sun and burn up.

    So there's really no reason to think about that concept.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 30, 2014 6:24 p.m.

    @ Jeff ls

    If BYU got invited to the PAC I think most Ute fans would be happy about it, and it would restore the annual rivalry game in November where it belongs. However, I think such an invite is very unlikely.

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 30, 2014 7:03 p.m.

    @81Ute

    Thank you. I hope the rest of the ute fans follow your example. I think your "Got it?" at the end of your comment was a little uncalled for, but I appreciate that you aren't telling me that the Big 12 doesn't want to expand right now.

  • gchris rock springs, wy
    July 30, 2014 7:07 p.m.

    @taylormade

    "is there ever going to be a relevent article posted about the UTES that we can read about ? just wondering as they are a football team from the state of Utah as well."

    Maybe when the UTES are relevant.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 30, 2014 7:46 p.m.

    @FatMan86
    West Jordan, UT

    Correction Chris B, it was assumed that Utah would add value to the Pac 12. Clearly so far they haven't. The Big 12 can see what a huge mistake the PAC made with the Utes. They will not make the same mistake with BYU.

    --------------

    Yet they added TCU? Maybe because TCU wasn't demanding Tier 3 rights? Smart move by the Big 12, considering giving teams Tier 3 rights lowers less revenues for the conference overall.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 30, 2014 8:04 p.m.

    @Mormon Ute

    One good thing for BYU mentioned at the beginning of the article is the talk from several conferences who have stated they fully intend for their schools to regularly schedule BYU. This does two things, First it ensures that BYU will likely have enough high quality opponents going forward to survive as an independent for longer than some expected. It also puts pressure on the ACC and the SEC to rethink their positions on BYU.

    -----------

    The SEC and ACC are not preventing their teams from scheduling BYU, just like Big 12, Big 10, and PAC-12. They just said that since their teams only play 8 conference games they must also play one P5 team. And that P5 teams are defined as playing in a P5 league or Notre Dame.

    The only reason the Big 10 (in 2016), PAC-12, Big 12, have no such definition for BYU is because they all play 9 P5 teams each year during conference play.

    The SEC and ACC will rethink their position on playing 8 conference games before they ever give BYU P5 status. The only way BYU gets P5 status is to join a P5 league, just like every other school not named Notre Dame.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    July 30, 2014 8:26 p.m.

    311Ute,
    Great post. I had no idea Sunday play was so important to the PAC12. I agree that BYU to the PAC12 is never gonna happen.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    July 30, 2014 8:28 p.m.

    Utah bet hope the Big12 does not get the green light to proceed with a championship game. If they do, I look for the PAC12 to shed 2 teams. Any guesses which two those will be?

  • BYU9293 Clinton, UT
    July 30, 2014 8:36 p.m.

    BYU will never be part of the PAC12 as long as Cal is. For a team to be added it must be unanimous and Cal stated specifically that they would never add a school with religious affiliation. This is the true reason BYU was not invited in the first place. And, yes, Ute fans, like it or not, the PAC12 wanted BYU first, before Utah, but Cal would not agree, hence the Utes invite. You can cry all you want and say whatever you want, but those are the FACTS, and no talking can ever change them.

  • JDL Magna, UT
    July 30, 2014 8:42 p.m.

    @ Brave sir.

    The real reason the Big 12/BYU relationship isn't going to work: The Big 12 simply doesn't want BYU.
    Two years ago you guys had your chance to get into the Big 12 - you blew it.

    Once again you willfully misrepresent the facts. When will you stop?

    The fact is, BYU was never in consideration to blow anything.

  • JDL Magna, UT
    July 30, 2014 8:50 p.m.

    @ perspective

    "The Big 12 simply can't afford to add BYU"
    That isn't what the Big12 said. They said they are not interested in adding byu.

    Once again, you, like Brave Sir willfully misrepresent the facts.

    Fact, What Ryan Teeples said is exactly what the big twelve commissioner said as well as many of the AD's of the member schools.

  • Mark321 Eagle Mountain, UT
    July 30, 2014 8:52 p.m.

    This will go 100+ comments before the night is over.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    July 30, 2014 10:12 p.m.

    TCU was admitted into the BIG 12 because they won a BCS game. BYU can't expect any different treatment. Win your in. Lose your out..and you stay out til you win. BYU has got to load up its schedule year in and year out otherwise they will be left out permanently. No one cares if they beat Houston or Nevada. Everyone cares if they beat Wisconsin and Notredame.

  • Lambo Clearfield, UT
    July 30, 2014 10:15 p.m.

    BYU has been talking big all off season about the big 12. Time to put our level of play where our mouth is to back up our claims of being an attractive option. When we BYU fans diss Utah as unworthy to be in the PAC 12 we need to remember that we have never beaten them since they have been in th PAC 12, so what evidence is there that BYU would be any more worthy at this point than Utah to be in a P5. We have consistently choked on the field against a team that so many of us have claimed was never worthy of going to a P5. We would have a similar record as Utah, if you look at how,we did against ND and Wisconsin last year. Just sad we don't have this year to exercise the demons of the last 4 years of rivalry losses...ugh! Hope Utah loses to whoever they replaced us with to soften up their schedule, that would be classic!

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 30, 2014 10:20 p.m.

    @ CougFaninTX

    I'm pretty sure the PAC-12 can't drop teams. Also, as far as I've seen the PAC-12 has never expressed any displeasure with CU and Utah so I highly doubt the scenario you described will become reality.

    @ BYU9293

    The PAC-12 wanted BYU? When was that? I've never read or seen anything that said the PAC was interested in BYU. Would you please back up your claim?

  • cmsense Kaysville, UT
    July 30, 2014 10:37 p.m.

    An enlightening article.

    BYU has a lot of fans so I'm sure that we could add a lot of value. I'm not sure how these contracts work, but I would hope if the Big 12 expanded that adding extra games and a championship game would add significant revenue.

    BYU should give up tier 3 rights as well if given the opportunity to join the Big 12, but hopefully be able to retain rebroadcast rights for BYUtv for later that night etc or to any games the Big 12 didn't want to air on a Big 12 network.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 30, 2014 10:46 p.m.

    The big 12 simply doesn't want to expand.

    The Big 12 teams simply like playing every other team in the conference every year.

    If the Big 12 was to expand, for whatever reason, they would simply look east.

    That is what the commissioner simply stated months ago.

    But some of the local media and a lot byu fans simply won't listen.

  • Dunedain PROVO, UT
    July 30, 2014 11:20 p.m.

    If the tier rights and current contracts are the issue why not just ignore them? BYU joins with provision that they don't share in the current B12 tier 1 & 2 rights. BYU is fine because it has its ESPN contract. Sure it doesn't make BYU 20 million but its ESPN deal makes it so BYU is fine money-wise. B12 and BYU continue with their current contracts till the B12 contract runs out and then all can be renegotiated. You have to think that ESPN would want to renew BYU's contract if it was in the B12. I guess there is still the problem of finding a 12th team but weirder things have gone on in college football than having an 11 team conference. Maybe there is contractual language that prevents this but it seems worth discussing.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    July 30, 2014 11:22 p.m.

    I'm late to the party and I don't have the interest to wade through all the comments, but what I did read appears that our Utah brethren are so interested in rubbing BYU's nose in any and everything that they blindly miss a significant fact:

    The Big 12 is in a severe competitive disadvantage with the other P-5 conferences, and will be for so long that extinction would seem guaranteed. This cannot continue very long before what is left is the P-4, and everybody else, including the Big 12. The next round of conference shuffling would almost assuredly see the demise of the Big 12.

    Maybe that's why the sky was falling at the Big 12 Media Days, and not so much for the others.

  • idaho cougar fan Twin Falls, ID
    July 31, 2014 12:25 a.m.

    Obviously the Big 12 commissioner is going to say "We are not interested or actively looking to expand at this time." because that makes the conference appear fine with how the revenue is split. If he spoke "the truth", "that we actually killed ourselves by giving away the tier 3 rights and allowing Texas to create the Longhorn station", then they admit they messed up. Big 12 would be interested in expanding, but messed up the tier 3 rights. Do you know how much money a conference championship game brings into the conference? Why do you think "traditional old school" conferences such as the Pac 10 and Big 10 expanded and added a championship game? Championship game= MONEY!! Big 12 was one of the first to have a championship game, now they throw out the motto "one true champion." They will be forced to have a championship game once they get left out of a playoff game. And to get a championship game, they will have to expand. However you look at it, BYU is the "best looking girl" left at the party so you take her. Now just win Cougs!

  • BYU in Tucson Tucson, AZ
    July 31, 2014 12:44 a.m.

    College football is becoming a mess! There are going to be 30 Division 1 teams someday and
    boosters will be able to pay for the best recruits. I hope Tucson winds up in that group of
    "HAVES" when the music stops. Maybe Utah and BYU will wind up in the same league again someday. I'll still watch them play those TIER 3 games, maybe even against my Wildcats.
    College football was great while it lasted. We still hope DIRECT TV will get the Pac12
    network before our beloved college football becomes semi-pro football full of greedy Jagoffs.
    Good luck to BYU and Utah I always root for the schools with good kids who actually attend
    college.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    July 31, 2014 1:57 a.m.

    Reading this article again reminds me of what a mess college football has become (a tier 3 mess).

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    July 31, 2014 2:02 a.m.

    @perspective

    I guess you don't like to deal with logic... From your comment it appears that you think that a Conference Commissioner will openly explain these type of financial issues in a press conference and frankly that's ridiculous... If Teeples is right, it makes perfect sense that they would not introduce or discuss that topic in a news conference...

    You have a tendency to make a lot of assumptions and state them as facts... Especially when it comes to BYU Football... and your accuracy is almost non-existent... For example, you claim that DN has attended all of the P5 News conferences asking questions about their League's relationship with BYU and that's the only reason BYU is even brought up... What's your sources (or I should say source) for such a statement? I am guessing that there is no such source and that the DN more than likely didn't attend any of them with the exception of maybe the big bad pac12 out of deference to the under performing program on the hill.

    Your serve.

  • San Diego Orem, UT
    July 31, 2014 4:05 a.m.

    BYU has a tremendous asset in BYUtv with access to millions of homes in the US. This network could be used by the Big 12 for Tier 3 broadcasts for all the schools other than Texas. They could let other schools use the BYU live feed and let those schools use their own announcers which they already have. BYU should use this asset in their negotiations with the Big 12.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    July 31, 2014 7:41 a.m.

    Nice article Ryan. Thanks for explaining why the Big 12 can't afford to add BYU, or any other school for that matter, at this time.

    Obviously, Chris B isn't capable of actually reading an article before spouting off, or she would have known that the Big 12's reluctance to expand has absolutely nothing to do with BYU, per se.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    July 31, 2014 8:26 a.m.

    The BYU/Big-12 hysteria really needs to die. BYU is a very good mid-major team and should be content with that. I would rather be a good mid-major team that goes to bowl games than a bad P-5 team that watches bowl games like our Utah friends.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    July 31, 2014 8:34 a.m.

    I'm waiting for the DN article entitled "Utah fans simply can't leave BYU alone." Of course some will counter that BYU fans can't leave Utah fans alone, but BYU fans are not the ones boasting about being in a better conference than Utah, that Utah is not a power 5 team, that Utah football is going to dive into obscurity or even be done away with altogether.

    Utah hasn't moved on from BYU. BYU is Utah's security blanket. Utah will never do anything in the PAC-12 until they finally move on...just like they say they have, and never post on BYU articles again. Otherwise, what can we say? Utah is too into anything BYU.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    July 31, 2014 8:37 a.m.

    Fatman86

    "Correction Chris B, it was assumed that Utah would add value to the Pac 12. Clearly so far they haven't. The Big 12 can see what a huge mistake the PAC made with the Utes. They will not make the same mistake with BYU."

    Actually, Utah does add value to the PAC-12. PAC-12 conference flags, bumper stickers, and memorabilia sales has skyrocketed in Salt Lake City since Utah joined. Not to mention Utah fans would pay top dollar to watch Utah lose to yet another team on the PAC-12 network.

  • Swanfam Sandy, UT
    July 31, 2014 9:30 a.m.

    To me, it is interesting that so many utes find the time to comment on BYU articles. Why do you care? Personally, I never comment on or even have the time to read ute football articles. I think that BYU lives in your heads and you can't just move on. Of course, as bottom feeders in the PAC, the ute articles aren't as interesting as nationally relevant BYU. Why don't you just move on?

  • MurrayMike Murray, UT
    July 31, 2014 9:39 a.m.

    @ Chris B

    This is unlike Utah, of course, who DID add enough value to the Pac 10 to justify an invitation.

    You're kidding right? What value? Canon fodder for the USC's and UCLA's of the league? THE only reason your team (and Colorado) was invited was for 2 simple reasons; 1)Putting a patsy on the schedule and 2) getting to 12 teams to have a conference title game. That's it, pure and simple.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    July 31, 2014 9:43 a.m.

    With all of the angst created in Ute Nation every time BYU to the Big 12 is even mentioned, can't wait to see the mass hysteria that will ensue on the hill when BYU is actually invited to join the Big 12.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 31, 2014 9:50 a.m.

    Taysom4Heisman,

    You need to be careful in how you are twisting your stats. It isn't really true that BYU is the 15th most watched college football team in the country. What is true is that BYU is 15th in number of games nationally televised. They only manage that, because all the games on BYUtv are considered national broadcasts. When you look at actual viewership, it is a different story. The SL Tribune's TV reporter noted last season that several of Utah's Pac 12 televised games drew a larger audience according to the Nielsen ratings than some of BYU's games on BYUtv. Having BYUtv in most homes in the country doesn't mean all those homes are actually watching.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 31, 2014 9:53 a.m.

    Taysom4Heisman,

    You make a good point about BYU needing to position itself for the invitation. After Utah got invited to the Pac 12 it was reported in the local media that Utah's President and Athletic Director had been working behind the scenes for several years developing alliances and relationships with Pac 12 members and actively courting the Pac 12 in hopes of an invitation. BYU should definitely be working to lay the ground work for a potential invitation.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    July 31, 2014 9:57 a.m.

    CougarSunDevil
    Phoenix, AZ said:

    "Actually, Utah does add value to the PAC-12. PAC-12 conference flags, bumper stickers, and memorabilia sales has skyrocketed in Salt Lake City since Utah joined. Not to mention Utah fans would pay top dollar to watch Utah lose to yet another team on the PAC-12 network."

    And BYU fans pay top dollar to watch BYU lose to ranked teams on ESPN. And then watch the reruns on BYUTV
    As been said many times before, Utah ads value beyond football. Especially thru research and federal grant projects. They were chosen, BYU was not. Get over it.

    In addition, it's funny how BYU fans like yourself ignore economic impact studies how PAC 12 membership benefits the state of Utah itself. Since leaving the MWC, the economic impact has increased 60% based on overall dollars spent by fans of visiting teams. Can BYU say the same? No way. I would bet that BYU's economic value to the state has decreased since going independent. How many times are you going to schedule Idaho St? They don't have the fan base to travel and spend to begin with.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 31, 2014 10:03 a.m.

    Jeff 1s,

    While I have good friends amongst the Utes who disagree with me, I am one Ute fan who would be delighted to see BYU be invited to the Pac 12. That doesn't mean I think it will happen, but I think it would inject some great positive energy back into the rivalry.

    The sad reality is it won't likely happen. The Pac 12 prides itself on the reputation for great graduate programs and research at its member institutions and BYU has intentionally focused undergraduate education more than research and graduate programs. Also any expansion the Pac 12 would seek will likely involved expanding its reach into other TV markets. The U gives them the Wasatch Front market and BYU wouldn't bring a new TV market to the table. That is likely one of the reasons they didn't bring both Utah and BYU in initially.

  • JDWVU Charleston, WV
    July 31, 2014 10:05 a.m.

    WVU signed a tier 3 deal with IMG last year that pays WVU $86.5 million total over the next 12 years.

    The idea that the Big 12 "ONLY" gets TV money from the network deals is just W-R-O-N-G.

    West Virginia has 1.8 million people, and it largest TV market is only #65 in the country. Yet they can garner an $86.5 million dollar deal for their tier 3 rights.

    The B12 network deals will grow to $40 million per team, per year by the end of the current contract. That part was conveniently left out of the article as well.

    I am all in favor of have a scheduling agreement with BYU and the B12. 5 games a year, rotating teams each year. But the clear picture right now is that the B12 is not interested in expanding with BYU as a target.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 31, 2014 10:10 a.m.

    FatMan86,

    Really? You think Utah hasn't added any value to the Pac 12? Take a look at the Nielsen ratings for Ute football and basketball games on the Pac 12 Network, ESPN and Fox. You will find the Ute's TV audience is pretty solid. Since the size of the TV audience is what dictates advertising revenues, the Utes definitely have brought value to the Pac 12 by giving it the Wasatch Front TV market and thusly enhancing the revenue picture in the TV contracts.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    July 31, 2014 10:11 a.m.

    upinthenight

    You're ignoring the fact that BYU has a MUCH larger fanbase nationally and in Utah, so the economic impact on the state of Utah would be much greater if BYU had been invited to the PAC 12, instead of Utah.

    The truth is the PAC 12 settled for Utah and Colorado because a couple of members didn't want to be associated with religiously affiliated schools like BYU and Baylor.

    It's laughable that a Utah fan would bring up Idaho State, when Utah starts EVERY season with a Big Sky opponent, including Idaho State this season.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    July 31, 2014 10:16 a.m.

    ""Fans and media want the big 12 to add byu"

    Well, that's cherry picking now isn't it.

    Correction: BYU fans the BYU media want the big 12 to add byu"

    @Chris B.

    Correction: according to a survey taken on ESPN, fans DO want to add BYU. You might say that lots and lots of BYU fans must have voted on that article, but you have to realize that some Utah fans probably went and voted no as well. In addition, Big 12 fans voted on it. Are you suggesting there are more BYU fans than fans of all the Big 12 schools combined?

    Conclusion: Big 12 fans want BYU in.

    I wonder if in 2010 ESPN had taken a PAC-10 poll asking "Should the PAC-10 invite Utah?", if that would get 70+% saying yes.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    July 31, 2014 10:19 a.m.

    deductive reasoning
    Arlington, VA said:

    "With all of the angst created in Ute Nation every time BYU to the Big 12 is even mentioned, can't wait to see the mass hysteria that will ensue on the hill when BYU is actually invited to join the Big 12."

    Doubt it. BYU has been passed over by not only the BIG 12 but other conferences. You were not only the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th choice.....you are nothing. The mass hysteria will come from BYU fans. Also, why would you get excited when you have been passed over to begin with. They did not want you before, why would you accept them now?
    If anything, there are Utah fans out there that feel a little sorry for the program without an identity in Provo.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 31, 2014 10:19 a.m.

    CougarSunDevil,

    LOL. How funny. BYU is Utah's security blanket? Really? Somehow we managed to get into the Pac 12 without BYU and we are going to survive two consecutive football seasons without playing BYU. Then in 2016 we will resume our winning ways over BYU until the Cougars finally decided enough is enough and ask to be released from any scheduling agreement.

    That last part is somewhat tongue in cheek, but I just wanted to illustrate how ridiculous your claim is. We are rivals, but we are not dependent on each other for success or failure.

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    July 31, 2014 10:59 a.m.

    I could care less...I like being independent. I do not miss fans and players we faced in the MWC. We certainly do not need games with Utah. (A win means nothing, a loss ruins the season). I like to see the Cougars play around the country where more folks can go to the games. At these games fans are treated well and it is a fun experience...we can always play at Wyoming in November, but who wants to? I favor independence over conference. The MWC is still living off BYU. I do not see any value in splitting revenue up 12 ways. Even if we have a smaller check, we get to keep it all.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    July 31, 2014 11:19 a.m.

    nightdude

    "BYU has been passed over by not only the BIG 12 but other conferences."

    What other conferences?

    The only OTHER conference was the PAC 12.

    The Big East would have taken BYU in a heartbeat. The AAC would still take BYU in a heartbeat. The ACC, Big Ten and SEC are simply too far away geographically to be a reasonably good fit.

    The thing that's really laughable about all of this conference affiliation chest beating by our little brothers, is the excellence of BYU's athletic programs, which are far superior to Utah's, has never been an issue.

    The main sticking points to BYU joining the PAC 12 or Big 12 have been research, no Sunday play, and television rights issues. Everybody knows that, and the constant claims by our little brothers that the quality of BYU's athletic programs is even a slight factor is complete hogwash.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    July 31, 2014 11:24 a.m.

    deductive reasoning

    "With all of the angst created in Ute Nation every time BYU to the Big 12 is even mentioned, can't wait to see the mass hysteria that will ensue on the hill when BYU is actually invited to join the Big 12."

    LOL!

    So true.

    The sheer volume of Utah fan comments on every BYU article that even mentions the Big 12 is proof of that.

  • That BT Hacker Lindon, UT
    July 31, 2014 11:36 a.m.

    Thanks Ryan for pointing out in detail one of the real drivers behind the current college football landscape. Unfortunately in today's world, it's not the athletes, universities or fans that count. Just the dollars.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    July 31, 2014 11:42 a.m.

    TrueBlue
    Orem, UT
    upinthenight

    You're ignoring the fact that BYU has a MUCH larger fanbase nationally and in Utah, so the economic impact on the state of Utah would be much greater if BYU had been invited to the PAC 12, instead of Utah.

    The truth is the PAC 12 settled for Utah and Colorado because a couple of members didn't want to be associated with religiously affiliated schools like BYU and Baylor.

    It's laughable that a Utah fan would bring up Idaho State, when Utah starts EVERY season with a Big Sky opponent, including Idaho State this season.

    __________

    Who cares other than a BYU fan making up excuses. You are not in the Pac 12, your national fan base does not fill up lolly pop stadium. A majority of fans are from the greater Provo area. That does not add to the economy. Those dollars are not from out of the area.

    Utah does not depend on the "Band of Buddies" to fill out its schedule every year. Notice the article highlighting an an agreement between BYU & Idaho St? You guys own that side of the road.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    July 31, 2014 11:42 a.m.

    This is all laughable. BYU needs a home, yes, but gone are the days of an occasional nationally broadcast game with the rest on KSLtv. It seems they're dealing with it the best they can.

    I wonder if BYU will get to the point of no major TV contract and pushing ALL home games on BYUtv. I know selling ads for BYUtv might be the wrench in that machine.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    July 31, 2014 11:46 a.m.

    Marked it Down
    Park City, UT
    nightdude

    "BYU has been passed over by not only the BIG 12 but other conferences."

    What other conferences?

    The only OTHER conference was the PAC 12.

    The Big East would have taken BYU in a heartbeat. The AAC would still take BYU in a heartbeat. The ACC, Big Ten and SEC are simply too far away geographically to be a reasonably good fit.

    __________

    Exactly, what other conferences? That's the point. They are not talking about adding you, they don't want you = passed up by adding other schools.

    Hello! The Big East and ACC are farther away than the SEC is. Ever look at a map?

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    July 31, 2014 11:51 a.m.

    @ChrisB

    The Pac-12 talk is getting old. The PAC-10 didn’t even want Utah to begin with, Utah was a filler because Texas backed out. The PAC-10 took Colorado over you, now that has to hurt doesn’t it. The wanted Colorado over Utah. They took Colorado and went after Texas. Utah was never even thought of until Texas decided to stay in the Big-12 for TV and money reasons. Utah was a filler to the PAC-10. So quite talking about how you belong and attacking BYU about you being a top tier program. BYU is big enough to eat at the same table as Utah, no question. And you know it! But know the history. GO BRUINS!!!

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    July 31, 2014 11:59 a.m.

    @ All other real and legitimate and true Utah fans

    Don't get me wrong about my previous comment to ChrisB. I do believe that sooner rather than later, Utah will be a contender in the PAC-12. It just takes time to develop that recruiting base. They are already making strides in football and basketball and was not all that bad in a tough baseball conference. And when you can compete in the BIG 3 in any conference, you become a competitor. Do I think this is their year to break out, no. But I do think it will come sooner rather than later and I respect that. However, I think BYU deserves just as much respect as Utah. I know the last 4 football years have not gone BYU's way, but there was a long history when it did. They can still compete in the BIG 3 as well (Football, Basketball, Baseball) just as well as the Utes. GO BRUINS!!!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 31, 2014 1:54 p.m.

    @CougarSunDevil
    Actually, Utah does add value to the PAC-12. PAC-12 conference flags, bumper stickers, and memorabilia sales has skyrocketed in Salt Lake City since Utah joined. Not to mention Utah fans would pay top dollar to watch Utah lose to yet another team on the PAC-12 network.

    ---------------

    Thank you Utah fans for supporting local businesses even when your team is losing.

    -- Source: Utah Economy

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    July 31, 2014 2:08 p.m.

    wacpaddled

    "Who cares other than a BYU fan making up excuses."

    You and the dozens of other BYU-obsessed kids on the hill - as your constant spamming of every BYU article proves.

    btw, a "reason" is not an "excuse".

  • couglifer South Jordan, UT
    July 31, 2014 2:29 p.m.

    @deductive reasoning

    If a BYU fan says we were in the game and just 2 or 3 plays would have changed the outcome we are making excuses
    But
    If a Utah fan says we were in the game and just 2 or 3 plays would have changed the outcome they are competitive and on the rise in the Pac whatever
    So if BYU says it, it is an excuse
    If a Ute says it, it is a statement

  • Surf is Up Miami, FL
    July 31, 2014 2:30 p.m.

    Good article. That answered some questions I've had for a long time.

    You ute fans who claim to have moved on but haven't been able to do so (you know who you are) should know better than to try and shamelessly push the myth that the U was invited into the PAC based solely on two great seasons, which were actually separated by four years, and bookended by many more years where U have done absolutely nothing to boast about.

    It is like saying the PAC bought a cheese burger in order to get the two pickles in it and not because there is something great in each layer of the sandwich.

    I guess the reality of who is really relevant and who isn't is so stark that U guys don't really want to face it. You'd rather just keep nipping at the heels of all things BYU.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    July 31, 2014 3:25 p.m.

    TrueBlue,

    What evidences is there to suggest BYU wasn't invited to the Pac 12 for religious reasons. I've heard that thrown about by BYU fans a lot, but never seen anyone offer up any quotes from credible sources to prove it. There are so many other reasons that religion doesn't even need to come into the conversation. Please let the religious bigotry idea die and stop trying to make BYU out to be a martyr school.

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 31, 2014 3:49 p.m.

    @Mormon Ute

    You bring up a good point about byutv. It is not a very well-viewed channel even though it is technically a national network. However, byutv only airs 1 game each year against our FCS opponent, which would not be very well-viewed anyway, so it doesn't make that much of a difference.

    However, you are incorrect on BYU's ranking in viewership. They are in fact the 15th most watched team in the nation, regardless of network. I will admit that we have a huge advantage in the fact that every single one of our games in the last 4 years has been nationally televised with the exception of the Oregon State game in 2012. Not even Alabama or Florida State can say that.

    So yes, it may be a bit of a skewed statistic since we are always on ESPN, but when all is said and done we still have the 15th best TV ratings in college football.

  • JD Las Vegas, NV
    July 31, 2014 3:59 p.m.

    I think the writer of the article is being a bit misleading. The word "BYU" would not have come up at any of the media days of the power 5 conferences, unless someone from the Desert News or KSL may have been assigned to cover the event with the purpose of asking that specific question of whether expansion will include Provo or do these big leagues consider BYU a somewhat power team, and the answer was very clear. BYU was or is not any agenda.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    July 31, 2014 4:07 p.m.

    Mormon Ute

    "What evidences is there to suggest BYU wasn't invited to the Pac 12 for religious reasons."

    It's common knowledge.

    Of course you're not going to find any official sources from the PAC 12 to confirm that, but it's a well known fact that at least a couple of PAC 12 presidents objected to the conference inviting any religiously affiliated schools. That's why Colorado was quickly invited, practically in the middle of the night, to shut Baylor out of the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger talks, and the reason why Utah, with a weaker athletic program, almost no football history, and a significantly smaller fanbase, was invited instead of BYU.

    Sure, the PAC 12 insisted in public that they were only looking for "research" schools, but curiously, there was never a peep said about "research" when Oklahoma State and Texas Tech were being considered, even though both schools had the exact same "high research" standing as BYU.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    July 31, 2014 4:53 p.m.

    So Cletus, did you change your name to steamroller?... You made a lot more sense when you were Cletus?

    So Mendenhall planted the B12 seed as a diversion for rules violations? Lol, now that's funny... You can't see that kind of humor on SNL... Nope, you have to read ute fan comments on BYU Football articles if you really want some entertainment.

    I love these articles DN... It helps me keep up with the action in college football and it saves me from going through the web to find information on BYU.

    As for SOS for the Cougs? I think that their match ups this year are good... No one can argue about the expected strength of the Longhorns... Boise State is formidable... and UCF proved themselves very well last year by winning their conference and by winning a BCS Bowl... The softer parts of the Coug's schedule are the other two P5 teams that we play and the FCS team that we play from Georgia (although you never know, ND State and Eastern WA... both FCS teams showed the big bad P5 Conferences last year that maybe they weren't all that big and bad)...

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 31, 2014 11:51 p.m.

    skywalker
    Palo Alto, CA

    Mormon Ute

    "What evidences is there to suggest BYU wasn't invited to the Pac 12 for religious reasons."

    It's common knowledge.

    Of course you're not going to find any official sources from the PAC 12 to confirm that, but it's a well known fact that at least a couple of PAC 12 presidents objected to the conference inviting any religiously affiliated schools.

    -------------

    Why don't you quote someone from ESPN or Fox Sports or CBS Sports that what you claim is a well known fact? Quoting sources from Deseret News doesn't make it common knowledge or a fact.

    I haven't read anything supporting your claim, I would love to read if you have a valid source.

  • GrayGrantham PHX, AZ
    Aug. 1, 2014 1:40 a.m.

    The premise of this article if factually incorrect. T3 revenue has absolutely no impact on expansion. The reason(s) the Big 12 isn't expanding anytime soon: #1 the unknown cost of the new model (pay for play, full cost of attendance) until that is settled there will be absolutely no consideration for expansion. #2 The Big 12 Championship Game has seen 6 presumptive champions ranked in the Top 5 defeated. The CCG has left a bad taste in their mouths, and unless the Playoff Committee penalizes the Big 12 for not having a CCG, no reason to expand.

    When the B12 gets around to expanding (wont be for a few years at least) they will be expanding in or near the SEC footprint (UCF, ECU, Memphis) with schools that have 45K-50K seat stadiums and they fill them. Whoever it is ANY 2 teams will pay for themselves CCG= $25 Million, 18 more Conference games = $27 million.

    Won't be BYU. My guess is that there are at least 5 Presidents who are not willing to share the wealth with the Mormon Church.

  • TrollPolice Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 1, 2014 10:01 a.m.

    GrayGrantham

    It's easy to just make stuff up that fits your biased view of the world, but do you have any legitimate sources to back up your farcical claims, especially your final statement?

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    Aug. 1, 2014 10:41 a.m.

    Mormon Ute

    @GrayGrantham "My guess is that there are at least 5 Presidents who are not willing to share the wealth with the Mormon Church."

    It's out there, whether you're willing to acknowledge it or not.

  • GrayGrantham PHX, AZ
    Aug. 1, 2014 1:47 p.m.

    @TRollPolice

    I personally think BYU would be an excellent (Football Only) addition to the Big 12.

    I do not believe that the President of BU, TCU and WVU share that opinion.

    I said "My Guess" (lookup definition of guess) is there are 5 Presidents who would not want to share the wealth with the Mormon church.

    It only take 3 votes to deny membership.

    source: google - Big 12 Bylaws

    1.5.2 Actions Requiring the Vote of a Majority of Disinterested Directors
    and a Supermajority of Disinterested Directors.

    (b) The following actions may be taken only if approved by the affirmative vote of a Supermajority of Disinterested Directors (as defined below):

    (3) Admission of a new Member or amendment of Section

    (f) The term Supermajority of Disinterested Directors; with respect to any issue shall
    mean seventy-five percent (75%) or more of all persons who are Disinterested Directors

    Director Proposing admission of BYU, by definition becomes an "Interested Director" not
    eligible to vote. The Supermajority threshold is 7 votes. Meaning any three Presidents (Baylor, TCU, WVU) could vote it down.

    Do you think BU, TCU and WVU want to see BYU in the Big 12? I don't

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Aug. 2, 2014 1:01 a.m.

    @nightowl in salem, or

    Your comments make me chuckle... How many times are we going to schedule Idaho State... I'm guessing about the same amount that the utes also schedule the Bengals and the fighting Wildcats from Weber State... Maybe you ought to take a peak at this year's ute schedule??? They couldn't schedule BYU but they found room for Idaho State? lol.

    On your comment about increased revenue for the state of Utah perhaps you can tell me your source for the claim that total Revs are up 60%? One thing that I know for sure is that the utes still can't cover their athletic expenses and still hits the poor taxpayers of Utah to make up for the shortfall... So if they are up (which I doubt) expenses must also be up because tax requirements for ute athletic revenue supplement is still alive and well.

  • manaen Buena Park, CA
    Aug. 2, 2014 12:45 p.m.

    A good analysis but I wonder about one critical point,

    "Without the ability to collectively monetize those Tier 3 rights through subscriber count like other conferences, the Big-12 distribution is limited to the $20 million per school it receives from its Tier 1 and 2 deals. Any additional school added to the conference means less money per school. Period."

    Wouldn't this be false if BYU brings more than $20 million to the Tier-1 / Tier-2 package, which would increase the $$$ each school receives? How likely would BYU be to do that?

  • GrayGrantham PHX, AZ
    Aug. 2, 2014 5:31 p.m.

    manaen

    2 Points #1 Big 12 Distribution is heavily dependent on T1 and T2 revenues (as well as NCAA tournament revenues) and T3 is NOT part of the Distribution it is not widely known but the T1/T2 Revenues are graduated. They start at the low end of approximately $25 million and graduate to approximately $40 million per school by 2024.

    #2 Adding two schools to the conference at face value is two more mouths to feed except:
    (a) Two more teams add a CCG, which has been appraised at approximately $25 million in value.
    (b) T1/T2 rights for football are based on broadcast inventory. Ten Teams, 9 games each = 90 games. Adding two schools and keeping a 9 game conference schedule adds 18 games to the broadcast inventory for T1/T2 revenues. The Big 12 has renegotiation clauses in its T1/T2 broadcast contracts that allow them to capture the additional value IF they expand. Most of the estimates (unless your writing the check no one knows) I've seen appraise broadcast inventory at anywhere between $500,000 and $1.5 million.

    Phasing in Conference Full Shares, for 2 Teams over 5 years $15M, $16M etc, saves conf $10 million.

    It is not as insurmountable as some say.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Aug. 2, 2014 9:53 p.m.

    poyman
    Lincoln City, OR said
    @nightowl in salem, or

    "On your comment about increased revenue for the state of Utah perhaps you can tell me your source for the claim that total Revs are up 60%? One thing that I know for sure is that the utes still can't cover their athletic expenses and still hits the poor taxpayers of Utah to make up for the shortfall... So if they are up (which I doubt) expenses must also be up because tax requirements for ute athletic revenue supplement is still alive and well."

    It comes from The Utah Department Community & Economic Development. And the same study is linked on the University of Utah website.
    And you are misunderstanding what I said. The 60% refers to outside dollars being spent in the state of Utah, as a result of the Utes joining the PAC 12. In other words traveling fans for all sports of other schools spending money ( lodging, gas, food, shopping etc ). It's increased 60% more than when they were in the MWC. That is not direct funding to the Ute athletic department.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Aug. 3, 2014 9:27 a.m.

    Taysom4Heisman,

    You are still wrong about being 15th most watched. Yes, that is the potential, but the Neilsen Ratings say it isn't actually true and ESPN reserves the right to put BYU's games on any of its channels. Last year at least two BYU games were on ESPNU and that channel gets into the same number of homes nationwide as the Pac 12 Network, because it isn't in basic cable packages like the main ESPN channels are. The Salt Lake Tribune's TV reported noted that those BYU games on ESPNU drew smaller audiences, according to the Nielsen Ratings, than the Ute's games on the Pac 12 Network for the same weeks.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Aug. 3, 2014 9:44 a.m.

    Pac Man.

    You went after the wrong guy. You quoted TrollPolice and I only have one name on this board. Please try to keep that straight.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 3, 2014 7:05 p.m.

    poyman
    Lincoln City, OR

    @nightowl in salem, or

    Your comments make me chuckle... How many times are we going to schedule Idaho State... I'm guessing about the same amount that the utes also schedule the Bengals and the fighting Wildcats from Weber State... Maybe you ought to take a peak at this year's ute schedule??? They couldn't schedule BYU but they found room for Idaho State? lol.

    -----------

    Are you seriously laughing at the toughest schedule in the nation, according to ESPN? If you want something to laugh at compare your 1984 schedule to your 2014 schedule.

    Correction, it's not that we "couldn't schedule BYU" it's the fact that we "did not want to schedule BYU". I think even you can see the difference.

    Fact is BYU "couldn't" schedule Utah, see the reason above, and 3 other P5 teams so "they found room" for Savannah State, Middle Tennessee, UNLV, and Nevada.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 3, 2014 7:34 p.m.

    @poyman

    In 2011 alone it was estimated 5 football home games alone generated around $5 million in direct revenue in the local economy. According to USA Today from 2006 the subsidy is 24% of revenue, which was around $9 million in 2011.

    In 2011, it's a $4 million difference but there's no exact amounts listed for taxes and student fees, just one sum. No idea how much taxes were used to generate $5 million in direct revenue, there's also the indirect benefits on the local economy:

    "The estimated total economic impacts to the state, both direct and indirect…. The impacts are measured by the number of supported jobs and associated earnings, gross state product, state economic output, and state tax revenue... Altogether, the five Pac-12 games of the 2011–2012 seasons supported about 210 jobs with earnings over $5 million and over $500,000 of state tax revenue"

    Source: Bureau of Economic and Business Research

    It seems, in a state dominated by Republicans only BYU fans, like you, are worried about "poor taxpayers of Utah" being taken advantage of by the Utah Athletic Department. May I suggest you move on to another taxpayer cause?

  • JDWVU Charleston, WV
    Aug. 4, 2014 8:31 a.m.

    As a WVU fan and grad, I do not believe there would be complete opposition to BYU from the WVU camp if it were a matter of BYU being a "football only" member. Any opposition from WVU would probably stem from travel for its other non-football teams, or if it happened to be that the payout per team were reduced by adding a team, BYU or otherwise.

    WVU and BYU are scheduled to face off in D.C. next year, I believe. I would venture to guess that there will be some conversation between the two schools on some level about the B12 and BYU, but at the end of the day, WVU is one school in a conference of 10, and until we start pulling our weight in the league, I don't think our administration would go against the consensus in the conference.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Aug. 4, 2014 9:23 a.m.

    skywalker,

    You make me laugh. It's not a fact until you can document it. All you have is speculation and it usually comes from BYU fans. Even Darwin's theory is just that, a theory, because scientists haven't uncovered enough evidence to call it a fact yet.

    As far as Utah having almost no football history. I laugh out loud again. Not only does Utah have more football history over the past 20 years than BYU with two BCS bowl wins that brought the Utes two top 5 final national rankings, but we have also won more head to head battles with BYU. Then if you look at the history before Lavelle arrived at BYU the Utes dominated that as well. I'll grant you BYU has a national title and that does mean something, but it was a long time ago and it has been at least 5 years since BYU finished in the top 25.

  • JLB74 DALLAS, TX
    Aug. 5, 2014 12:28 a.m.

    Yes, the other leagues sell their Tier 3 rights collectively, but the payouts per school can be much higher individually depending on the school. Texas makes $10-15M/year on the Longhorn Network, Oklahoma makes about $7M/year on their network. I haven't done the math but I'll bet that if you add up all of the individual Big 12 schools' networks, the total and the average probably comes out about the same as the other conferences, if not more.

  • JLB74 DALLAS, TX
    Aug. 5, 2014 12:29 a.m.

    But here's the primary reason why BYU won't get a Big 12 invitation: the Big 12 is a relative bargain for the networks with the least expensive TV contracts. But it adds up to more money for its individual members because money is only split 10 ways. If you add another school like BYU, that split decreases for each member. THAT is the main reason why BYU will NOT be invited to the Big 12/why there is no incentive to expand the conference.

  • JLB74 DALLAS, TX
    Aug. 5, 2014 12:31 a.m.

    There are other reasons too. If BYU were added, the Big 12 schools would not be able to play every other member school in the same season unless everyone sacrificed a non-conference game from their schedule, which isn't likely to happen. So, they'd have to expand to 12 teams and there aren't any other economically logical programs available to get to 12 members.

  • JLB74 DALLAS, TX
    Aug. 5, 2014 12:32 a.m.

    Finally, BYU refuses to play games on Sundays. The Big 12 will not adjust the schedules of the other 10 members in a number of sports to accommodate BYU, especially when the other 2 religious schools will play on Sunday. Simply put, BYU's inflexibility on this matter has kept and will keep BYU out of ALL of the power 5 conferences. Unless BYU relents on this issue, they will have to remain independent or join the AAC or Mountain West.

  • GrayGrantham PHX, AZ
    Aug. 6, 2014 8:23 p.m.

    @JLB74

    I doubt BYU will ever get an invite to the Big 12, even as a football only member. I disagree with some of your conclusions.

    ANY two of the following schools would work financially for the Big 12: Memphis, ECU, UCF, USF and BYU.

    The Big 12 media contracts are based on 90 football games. Adding two schools and keeping a 9 game schedule adds 18 games to the broadcast inventory (@$1.5m per game thats $27m) . It also adds a Conference Championship game ($25m). Since new members are phased in over time they don't get $20-$25 million first year they start out at about $15m and work their way up.

    Their is all kinds of financial wiggle room for the Big 12 to make money by adding any of these 2 schools.