As far as the tribe thing, I'm not at all surprised by this.
"Members" see themselves in a harmonizing brotherhood and sisterhood
with total strangers, all it takes for the comraderie is the sighting of their
CTR ring or other indicators. This is one of our most powerful tools, we are
connected with very diverse individuals by our common faith. To me, this is a
small indicator of our Zion seeking theology. Let us continue to be united, and
"have favorable views on other Mormons".
But you'll note that in Utah at least Mormons very much dislike Democrats
or anybody left leaning. Harry Reid is much despised by Utah Mormons.
As a new Mormon (March 2014) I have nothing but love for my brothers &
sisters. I tend to give my fellow Mormons the benefit of the doubt and it has
paid off every time. I think it's this that will turn up the temp in time
as more join us and join in on the fun.
@marxist, Harry Reid is much despised by a lot of people, not just in Utah. :)
@marxist... I would venture to ask if there is a purpose to your baiting for
controversy or are you sharing an opinion that is based upon a large section of
interviews that you have personally obtained. Are Utah voters conservative?
Based upon voting statistics: yes. Do they vote party line? Not necessarily. If
a candidate of a party proves by previous actions that they will be of best
service for the community, then they are elected - not by party line. Because
they are - ready for it marxist - honorable! I'm left handed - on occasion
- so, I guess I'm left leaning. ;) As for considerations for Harry Reid, it
has nothing to do with his party affiliation or his membership in the LDS Church
but his complete disdain for the First and Second Amendments to The Constitution
of the United States and other indications of socialism, cronyism and nepotism
that make him a tad bit despicable to some right leaning folks.
The problem with "marxist's" generalization is that many or most of
the Democrats in Utah are Mormons.
Harry Ried is not well liked by Anyone that leans to the Right, not just
Marxist: You will find that many Latter Day Saints as a whole dislike or
distrust Harry Reid or anyone who is a self-proclaimed Democrat regardless where
you are at anywhere in the Untied States. Harry Reid would be welcome to any
LDS Church meeting in the United States but he would be highly criticized for
his LIBERAL leanings. Don't just say Utah as it is nation wide.
@marxist. Harry Reid is despised by many more than just Utah Mormons. The way he
conducts himself and attacks others who do not think like him is despicable. His
lying and underhanded dealings in government make me often wonder how he stays
active in a Church which teaches the opposite of being truthful and honest in
our dealings. IMO he is a very poor example of how we should act toward others.
Definitely not the example I want of a good Letter-day Saint.
Temperature readings by whom?In not so polite conversation, there
are some white new-comers to the Saint George area whose disdain for blacks and
hispanics barely exceeds their disdain for Mormons.So what?"...All that proved about Mormons is that Americans don't feel much
warmer or colder about them than they have for the past eight years...". Some Americans do, some Americans don't.Interpretation
of poll driven data tends to be a function of the audience the interpretation is
designed to please/impress/sway.BTW,"...political
perspective...".The temperature rating for Mormons is in the 40%
level just above atheists and Muslims."...underlying
reality...".Maybe, maybe not.
Coming from outside Utah, I can testify that non-Utah Mormons don't have a
high regard for Utah Mormons.
I'm surprised there wasn't a partisan gap in 2010 since that was after
Prop 8 and considering it's amongst the most conservative churches (by
which I mean greatest percentage of members say they're conservative) in
I'm LDS and don't care for these stories. Let's get over
ourselves and stop worrying about whether or not people think we are
"important," "good," etc. We make up a tiny, tiny fraction of
the world's population and most people don't look to us for advice.
They probably never will.
Many throughout the country will interpret Mormons needing some help in bringing
that temp down to normal. Their temperature is in need of some generic
medication in order to temper that high and mighty attitide to the level of the
rest of the population.
My fellow LDS are like me. When I am with many other groups, I am out of
place…the odd ball. That is why “Mormons” like
“Mormons” better. I have always lived where I am the only LDS in
the crowd or there are only a few of us. Still, I feel more comfortable with my
fellow LDS. When traveling or moving, I can go right into a church group and
feel I am at home immediately. Or call for help if I am in a strange town. You
are never alone when you have immediate family all over the world.
Ultra-Extreme Liberals justify their positions by denying the existence of
divine commandments through an over-emphasis on God's mercy. Ultra-Extreme
Conservatives justify their positions by focusing on the divine commandments
through an over-emphasis on God's justice.Moderates fall
somewhere in between, but the ultra-extremes dominate the conversation. Since
Mormons have great faith in living by the Lord's standard, it is
understandable that they tend to be predominately conservative. They need to
resist the propensity to be ultra-extreme to the extent of forgetting God's
The idea that Reid is "despised" by Utah Mormons exhibits the
frustration many have with us. The concept of disliking Reid is flawed - better
put is "I don't like his politics" - big difference. I
don't believe him to be a dishonorable man. I think he is a good man doing
what he believes is right - even when he knows much of his tribe disagrees. Some try to equate being a good Republican with being a good LDS with
being a good American. Fight the political battle but I have a
small news flash - In the end politics do not win - theology does and it turns
out its all okay - even if Barry occupies the White House instead of Mitt.Its more about the woman at the well and the Sermon on the Mount than it
is about whats happening in Rome. The Mormon Moment will come when we exhibit
our love and kindness not our political might.Having said that - I
sure wish Reid would have lost that election - he bugs the snot out of me on a
Your inept, high, or way out of touch, if you think Reid is only despised by
And what about how Mormons are viewed internationally? There people like Harry
Reid or Jim Dabakis have rendered an enormous service to the Church during the
"Mormon Moment". They showed that not all Mormons were right-wing
Christian extremists (as they are often presented). Also, the actions of
"Mormon building bridges" were picked by international media and gave an
excellent impression of Mormon diversity and love for our gay brothers and
sisters.However, since then, Utah's fight against same-sex
marriage and the animosity toward dissenters have again plunged the Mormon image
in the negative. The point here is not to argue about SSM or excommunications,
but to understand what kind of news determines the image of the Church. If
Church PR wants to improve that image worldwide, for the sake of missionary
work, it does not seem we're on the right track.
Gene Poole:"Do [Mormons] vote party line? Not necessarily. If a
candidate of a party proves by previous actions that they will be of best
service for the community, then they are elected - not by party line."Nope. Not true. Consider Utah's state attorney general election
of 2012. The Democrats ran Weber County Attorney Dee Smith. Smith was a
well-respected prosecutor with an impeccable record. The GOP ran John Swallow,
whose OWN legal experience was little more than that of a political fixer and
fundraiser. Swallow defeated Smith with 65% of the vote.In the
prior AG election (2000), the GOP's Mark Shurtleff defeated Democrat Reed
Richards with 57% of the vote (to Reeds 40%). Richards' CV included
serving as a Weber County attorney, and subsequent deputy AG under Jan Graham.
Shurtleff had been, for a short time, a Salt Lake County commissioner with not a
long résumé as an attorney.And now Shurtleff and Swallow
are under indictment for multiple felonies.Clearly Smith and
Richards were the better candidates, but they didn't fall under "party
line" voting practices.
@ Drewdove - as a somewhat longer LDS convert, I would strongly advise you not
to base your testimony on the behave of every fellow Saint. The vast majority
will attempt to live their lives in accordance with their beliefs. It is not
universal, however, (freedom of choice does exist, even in the church), and
eventually you will run into the one or two who will attempt to take advantage
of you in a rather unethical manner, based simply on your trusting them because
they are or claim to be a church member.Be loving, but use the
Spirit for discernment, and you will continue to prosper. Best of luck in
everything, that way!
Marxist posted:=But you'll note that in Utah at least Mormons
very much dislike Democrats or=anybody left leaning. Harry Reid is much
despised by Utah Mormons.Both statements are unwarranted
exaggerations. For quite some time there has been one Democratic congressman
from Utah elected to the U.S. House of Representatives, so it logically follows
that there are some Utah Mormons that have liked them enough to vote for them.
And back in 2005 or 2006 Harry Reid actually came and gave a devotional at LDS
Church owned Brigham Young University. Reid did a very good job of describing
and defending both sides, the conservative and liberal ones, on several
important issues. Each time he defended one of those sides he got a round of
applause, obviously from different parts of the audience. The people who
applauded his defense of the liberal sides of issues were obviously at least
partially Utah Mormons. I, personally, came away from that devotional liking
Reid very much, and I'm a Utah Mormon, even though I wasn't born here.
Gary Kinney posted:=Harry Reid is despised by many more than just
Utah Mormons. The way he conducts=himself and attacks others who do not
think like him is despicable. His lying=and underhanded dealings in
government make me often wonder how he stays active=in a Church which
teaches the opposite of being truthful and honest in our=dealings.Some of the things Harry Reid has said are of concern to me, most
notably his criticism of the LDS Church itself on gay rights issues, but my
approach to pretty much anybody is to give that person a fair trial before
passing judgement on her/him, and that applies to Reid just as it applies to
anyone else.By the way, did you mean to put a comma between
"opposite" and "of being" up there? The LDS Church doesn't
teach the opposite of being truthful and honest.
RE: why Mormons like each other so much.Their Masonic
forefathers(Joseph Smith, Brigham Young…etc) had an understanding of human
needs and human aspirations. They may never have dreamed of the mindless
computer which governs our lives, or the fission of matter which threatens our
lives, but they understood human nature and what motivates the spirit of man.
Thus from a simple process of using stone and mortar for building they
progressed to the most important of life's functions, the building of
Unfortunately typical that most of the commenters cannot fathom that anyone
thinks anything is wrong with any Mormon except Sen. Reid, and make the
discussion about him.All one would have to do, to combat the
millions spend on TV ads, etc, would be to give folks the DN comments to read,
if trying to make folks dislike mormons.
If I wrote what I actually think of Harry Reid, it would never get published in
this comment section even without swearing (which I never do anyway). I am from
Nevada and I have no idea how he got elected and I constantly have to apologize
to anyone outside my state for having him be our Senator. All I can do is say I
am sorry and I pray that he won't get elected again, but it happens every
time. Some think he brings a lot of influence back to our state, but that is a
corrupting influence of the highest order and it is my opinion that a lot of
corrosion has occurred over the years.
Who cares? (Galatians 1:10)? Like another who commented, I'm also
Mormon, don't like what these "how cool does the world think my church
is" stories.Are we some insecure teenager counting facebook
likes, hoping that will make us feel better? Are we trying to win some sort of
popularity contest, as if that was our goal? Are we afraid we might noto get
enough mileage for good deeds we collectively perform?I'd appreciate
it if we as a church would forget this made up "mormon moment" PR crap,
and realize that our actions are being observed...by God, and that should be
more than enough. That's what the scriptures clearly ask us to do.Matthew 6:1-4 Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Rameumptom
I converted in 2005, at the time I felt welcome...but felt like I was standing
from the outside of a warm family gathering, looking in a window. Sometimes I
feel like I'm welcomed in, most often not. I'm single, and
older...not the, "ideal," Mormon look. It makes sense that
Mormon's are warmer towards each others rather than outsiders. The Mormon
culture is very strong, which is sad because the Lord wanted all to feel welcome
and a part of HIS kingdom. The church is true, the people however have a lot to
work on yet.
@ Kings Court.The vice versa is also true. Utah LDS tend to look down
their noses at members who are not in Zion.@ Bloodhound.I
agree with you. I believe part of the problem is that the LDS church is still
relatively new and small. I don't see the Catholics wringing their hands
and agonizing over public perception.The Shurtleff and Swallow
scandal cannot help public perception of the LDS church. The broader general
public may not know the two are LDS but they know they are in Utah and Utah and
the LDS church are synonymous.
Latter-Day Saints for all their virtues display an amazing conceit, which is
this - anything which a majority of LDS believe or advocate for cannot be wrong
(in their view).
at least they aren't burning our temples and tar and feathering our
I recently saw the Book of Mormon musical. I couldn't help wondering,
several times during the performance, how other religions would react to this
sort of caricature of their faith. I also couldn't help remembering the
criticism of the "Bengazi" video and in particular, Hilary Clinton
calling it "disgusting and reprehensible". I'm still waiting for
her response to the portrayal of Mormons by Matt Stone and Trey Parker :)From all I've seen, LDS reaction to the BOM musical has been poised
and gentle. Who knows, maybe with this sort of aplomb they'll move up to
50% in the next poll.
I haven't seen a CTR ring on a church member in years. Maybe I'm not
just looking hard enough.
"What's truly striking and revealing (in other studies) is that no
group gives themselves a higher rating than Mormons do Mormons. Mormons give
Mormons even higher scores than blacks give blacks or Hispanics give Hispanics
in feeling thermometer surveys about race."Not surprised.I, too have noticed, as an LDS member, a lack of humility among Church
members. As long as I can remember having grown up in UT, an inferiority
complex among UT Mormons such that we are so happy when we can lay claim to
someone famous being Mormon, like we can now be part of the "popular"
group. We proudly pat our own backs about the "good-works" we do and
proclaim the LDS Church to be the most charitable, despite having no
facts/figures to back it up. Articles like these just reinforce the
preoccupation we have about our own "popularity."
I find the fear and loathing of Sen Reid by some presumed "good" LDS
members most interesting. If one presumes that Sen Reid is a member
in good standing in his church, then should not one presume (well, LDS member
anyway) that he is by definition a "good" man?Sen Reid was
elected by his constituents to represent their interests in the US Senate.
Many, many times people of all faiths have to advocate and vote for policies
that may not necessarily align with their faith traditions. This does not make
them people of bad faith, it makes them people of government. People are sent
to the nation's capital to make things work, not legislate their faith.In one respect, it is important for the LDS church members to mature as
a sect and accept legitimate criticism of their faith in action and their
leaders. However, the bitter criticism of a fellow member of the LDS tribe
seems based on pure animus (the undertone being he's not really one of us)
belies an immature attitude.
Harry Reid's abortion stance may very well be in line with the LDS Church,
as are mine.. I believe abortion should be available for rape, incest, maternal
life/health issues and severe fetal deformity. However, I don't believe
abortion should be criminalized and I believe ALL women (not just well-off
women) should have access to safe abortions--therefore, I am pro-choice. The
official church policy on abortion doesn't mention Roe v Wade.Finally, It has been established repeatedly that contraceptive use
reduces abortion rates.It can be argued that conservatives are
pro-abortion since they support limits on contraceptive education and
RE:Ordinaryfolks, the LDS church members to mature as a sect and accept
legitimate criticism of their faith in action and their leaders? To
be a faithful Mormon, according to the Church leaders you must accept what they
teach without question and without debate or question “ doctrinal
teachings” .Yet,Early Christians were not be afraid to
question their apostle[s] , “the Berean Jews were of more noble character
than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness
and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true”.
Acts 17:11@Harry Reid probably even believes “As man is, God
was; as God is, man may be”
Agree with what others have said, why are we so concerned about if people like
us or not?@Sparrow. It's okay, I've been LDS
my entire life and have never quite fit into the culture or had many friends at
church. Just the way it is I guess. It also doesn't help that I am an
extreme introvert and the LDS culture is very social and very much geared
Despite hosting the winter Olympics, and fielding national presidential
candidate, and persistent public relations campaigns designed to convince the
world Mormons are as great as they say they are, the public "likes"
Mormons about as little as atheist-- the true religious outsiders-- and the
much-villainized, media-fictionalized Muslim.There is an opportunity
for self-reflection. Why do people have such a different perspective on
Mormonism? But rather than explore the Mormon self-perception disconnect, this
comment thread is bizarrely dominated by "let's all trash Harry Reid,
democrats and liberals!"Strange to feel so misunderstood and do
so little to foster understanding.
As President Hinckley once stated, It's not important how others view us.
It's important how we view ourselves. I expect the world to dislike me
because I'm a Christian. If I fit in with the world too much, then
I'm not really a Christian.
OrdinaryFolks,The LDS Church is open to all. I make up my opinion
about members based on what I see of their conduct. There are many good LDS
members on both sides of the isle, but I do not consider Harry Reid to be one of
them. I have seen him lie, misrepresent and disparage people too many times to
think that he is a good person. He accused Mitt Romney (who is not high on my
list) of not paying any taxes for a number of years - but would never backed it
up. Lying about people is wrong regardless of whether you are conservative,
progressive or whatever.Donn,I am not sure where you are
getting the - you must accept without question bit because it is simply not
true. You should come to the gospel doctrine class in my ward. Hardly a week
goes by without some valiant member questioning some doctrine. It is discussed
an all are edified. Questioning is welcome - throwing a tantrum if everyone
else doesn't follow your lead is not.
Our family is historically Democratic (ever since FDR) and I am the first person
to vote Republican, which does make for some fun and interesting holiday dinners
at mom and dads. wWith 5th generation LDS. it doesnt get better than this
@Kings Court That's not true. They have the same view of them,
although they see some of Utahn's practices/customs as bizarre.
What it means to me is that people worry about the 'brand' way more
than they do about the stuff they should be concerned with.
That Mormons think more of themselves than other religious or ethnic groups do
is not surprising. This type of thinking is inherent in an " one and
only" doctrine. It is also the main reason why early Mormons were run out of
This kind of story is the adult equivalent of teenage angst over how many
"likes" you have on Instagram/Facebook et al.