Re: ". . . Herbert announced that a committee of higher education
representatives had been formed to review whether Utah's current standards
adequately prepare students . . . ."Yeah -- that's what we
need. Another committee of "educators," not one of whom has ever had to
earn an honest living or run a business, studying whether Utah students are
being properly prepared for a life they've never known.If
they're studying whether Utah education properly prepares students for the
"rigors" of an unaccountable, taxpayer-funded academic position, and its
accompanying tenure politics and social obligations, it might be a valid
study.But, requiring a group of out-of-touch eggheads to confer,
then expecting a recommendation for anything other than higher pay, more posh
surroundings, and doubling the number of endowed departmental chairs, is
lunacy.We all know what Utah education needs -- less trade-union
control, less pampering of students, less focusing on and catering to deviance,
and more accountability to the ultimate customers, parents and business
leaders.Anything more is, at best, expensive, unproductive fluff. At
worst, it's just another excuse to spend more on education and get less in
I'm glad they're doing the review AGAIN. Yes, I think it's a
waste of taxpayer money. However, I've met so many people who continue to
believe that curriculum is somehow affected by the Common Core (which it's
not!), that I think we do need for our local and state leaders to come out AGAIN
remind everyone that we are not ceding local control.This review is
unfortunate, but necessary.The Common Core, however, is FANTASTIC!
It's about time we standardize educational benchmarks and hold our students
to a higher academic level!
"'If there is a standard or grade level benchmark that you disagree
with, I want to hear about it,' Herbert said."This is a
brilliant idea. They have made it so easy for everyone to review the Common
Core standards. I really can't wait to see which standards the Common Core
critics disagree with.
As to Common Core, or any big government program we need to realize that there
is big money to be made, in testing, and staffing or teaching which brings
unions (AFT, UEA) into the picture. Control of the process is paramount because
it will direct the money towards "desired" goals and products.We elect local boards of education and then eviscerate their authority with an
indirectly nominated state board who are selected by the governor, who in a
sense poses as the chief educator to select the candidates. (There is a
corollary in this as to the folly of having an appointed AG, but I digress).Eliminate the state school board, let local communities decide via
boards what will be taught and how.Oh, what about meeting college
entrance criteria with out the sacred Common Core? That's why there are
ACT and SAT exams. The diploma is not really necessary if you score well on the
tests. This also protects Home Schoolers who will be forced into the Common
Core herd.The committee is political cover so the governor can
support common core against the citizen's desire for its demise.
Follow the money. He is refusing to take a stand on this issue because of the
federal dollars attached to it. His statement that these standards are not
mandatory is irrelevant due to the fact the SAT and college entrance exams are
all being geared to this curricullum and standards so if you don't
implament them your kids are already at a disadvantage. His other statement
about recieving support calls for & against is deceptive. My wife worked on
the PTA and many of my relatives are teachers as well as myself at one point I
left largely because of this garbage and government redtape as far back as NCLB
for every 1 teacher in support of this there are 15-20 against it. Even the
liberal teachers unions of Chicago and Newyork have come out against this.The
same was true at the convention the 5-6 people for it were easily outnumbered
20-1.Despite the Feds should not be dictating standards to begin with The
curriculum content scares me. Check out the new AP college history test. If
leaked information is true Karl Marx's statement that a people seperated
from their roots are easily moved is at the core.
procuradorfiscal wrote, "But, requiring a group of out-of-touch eggheads to
confer, then expecting a recommendation for anything other than higher pay, more
posh surroundings, and doubling the number of endowed departmental chairs, is
lunacy."Are you opposed to endowed chairs (university faculty
positions paid for by private donors)?"In addition to the review
by the attorney general's office, Herbert announced that a committee of
higher education representatives had been formed to review whether Utah's
current standards adequately prepare students for careers and higher
education."I don't think this says that the higher
education representatives will review their own working conditions...
I don't get the hysteria over common core. Uniform standards that students
need to meet to compete in a global economy seems reasonable to me. It makes
sense that we require our students to prepare for the future....? These
government conspiracy claims perplex me.
Someone please explain to me why 56 different definitions of what a High School
graduate should know is better than one.
Re: "It's about time we standardize educational benchmarks and hold our
students to a higher academic level!"Yeah, that might be nice --
not the standardization, but the higher academic part -- but that has absolutely
nothing to do with Common Core.Real teachers and real parents object
to Common Core, not just because it's an attempt to federalize control of
education, or that it bureaucratizes teaching, but because it dumbs down the
good basic education teachers already know how to give. It diverts good teachers
and good schools away from real education, making them teach kids nothing more
than how to take tests.
I applaud the Governor and his efforts to bring a common sense approach to the
debate. Too bad that "Queen Gale" and her Eagle Forum will still find
fault with any results since they know what is best for us all. Just ask them.
As someone with children in K12 I decided to read "common core" and I
read the entire standard, every grade level, every page. I found nothing to be
concerned about except that it is not a very high standard. However, I do agree
it is good to have a national standard, but we might do better to look at
Finland or other countries with great public schools for that standard.Most students can learn much more and be pushed much faster than they are in
K12 education, especially with regard to STEM, so I would like to see an
enhanced standard above common core used in our schools.
Whether it is "associated" with the common core or not, the SAGE testing
needs to die.
What we need is to cut through all the propaganda, misperceptions, and flat out
lies the anti-common core crowd keep squawking about. I have found that those
against the common-core are very few, but they are obnoxiously loud. When I try
to sit down and talk with them about their point of view, they are eager to
share, but once you start asking them critical questions, they get extremely
defensive. I've also found out that the majority of those who oppose the
common core have never even read the core standards. They can only repeat what a
neighbor, friend, family member, etc, heard from someone, somewhere, yet they
put 100% trust in what other tell them rather than finding things out on their
own. I have no problem with the core standards, but I do not like the
over-emphasis on testing. The testing regime is way too lengthy. The writing
portion of the test is more involved the GRE writing test. I've seen this
with my own eyes, so yes, I do know what I'm talking about. I've even
read the common core too.
As a teacher, I thought Common Core would be a good thing. We had so many
students coming from out of state. It was explained to us that this would
ensure that all grades across the country are learning the same curriculum!
Fantastic....or so I thought. The curriculum is very flawed. It was written by
people who either have not been in the classroom for a very long time, and run
all of what they do by research they have performed in a laboratory. Children
are not lab rats! Children are all very different with unique learning
abilities. The Common Core approach to math is ridiculous. In second grade
students are taught ten different ways to add and subtract. For most students
around (80%) this serves no purpose but to confuse. The Common Core approach to
teaching has done nothing for kids but to sap the joy out of learning. It has
also introduced concepts such as equivalent fractions to 3rd graders who are not
equipped developmentally for this type of challenge. Homeschooling is sounding
more and more enticing!
Re: "I found nothing to be concerned about except that it is not a very high
standard."Why wouldn't you be greatly concerned over that?
That's the primary reason most real people object -- the federally enforced
dumbing down of education.
I was behind Common Core until I started reading some of the math problems.
The goal of math instruction should NOT be to make it more complicated, more
difficult to understand, and more confusing. The goal should not be to guess
what the writer of the question had in mind. This is nuts. Math is pretty
straight forward. Keep it that way.
When the founders created the constitution they were concerned that any
centralized government become too powerful and limit the liberties of the
people, therefore they enumerated 18 powers the federal government could operate
under and then the bill of rights was created, the first ten amendments, to
ensure the federal government was kept in check. The tenth amendment clearly
states that anything beyond those enumerated powers were to be left to the
states and the people respectively. Education is not an enumerated power and
therefore, should be left o the states and the people. The federal government
has already exceeded its bounds far too often and far too much, let the people
of Utah, parents, educators and legislators who represent them decide what
standards are appropriate. Policies outside the jurisdiction coming from the top
down from the federal government are a result of public apathy and the designs
of those who seek power, either with good intentions or not.
Common core is MOR%E than just standards as many on left want to claim.It has test that contain certain material, which must be taught in order to
pass the said test.So the test dictate what must be taught in the
classroom.If the test has very communist socialist, or progressive
material, ideologies, and and views, then that must be taught in the class room
for the student to pass the test.if the test denigrates the
founding fathers then that must be taught.if the test denigrates the
United States then that must must be taught in the class room.If the
test deem Lincoln is not very important, then, lincoiln will not be taught in
the class room.if the test decidesI could on and on but
you get the point.The test dictate and control what must be taught
in the classroom.The tests are very troubling, That is a very big
problem.You can claim the local state has control over what is
taught but that is not true if want the student to pass the liberal and leftest
As long as the committee has this restriction "...but Herbert cautioned that
comments should be specific and related to the actual content of the Core,"
it cannot solve the problem, because the standards themselves are the minor
problem. The major problem is what HAVING these de facto national standards
does to education in this and every other state. The very fact of having these
standards as a national "goal," allows Congress, the DOE, and the
President to control our community schools, much more than anyone ever was
willing to allow.The tests, developed with national funding and
oversight, will drive the actual teaching, particularly as scores from these
tests become the major part of teacher evaluations. Teachers will use exactly
the methods that the tests are made for and will also not teach anything else.
They become the lid, not the floor, of what is taught. No one will teach more,
because that will not be tested, and the tests will be the bottom line.
While it is great to have a national standard like Common Core the problem is
though while it elevates many under performing students, it also brings down
students the are top performers. If you look at the new common core math, to
reach a high level calculus class while in High School was very manageable
before the standards changed, now though a student must either double up on a
math class or at a very young age test up to the next level to get out of it.
Like No Child Left Behind this new core standard focuses more on leveling the
playing field for everyone rather than raising education for everyone. Tests show that the US is unable to compete internationally anymore when
it comes to education and if the core standards make it even harder for kids to
find their way to AP, IB, or other advanced standards, we are only going to see
it fall farther. It is good to raise the standard but not to make a national
curriculum that holds some back, is unable to teach different areas effectively,
and is unable to change depending on a schools success rate.
CC becomes the catalyst that will allow the government to data mine information
on the students under the guise of it being "in the best interest of the
student." And Utah won't be able to stop it no matter what the
Governor says.What happens when the history and science and sex
education "standards" come out? They will be much more controversial
than math and language arts. If CC is allowed to stand, these standards will be
crammed down our throats too, because of the tests and the funding.The only option is to get out from under federal control of education, or we
will keep getting further into the trap. The further in we go, the harder it is
to get out. Let's get out NOW.
@ ChuckSo what if the government receives these scores? Then
they'll know where we lag behind in education. We will all know what we
excel at and what we don't excel at. What's wrong with
that? What's to fear?
Mom of Six, the Common Core is a set of standards or benchmarks of skills
students should master by the time they enter college. It is NOT a curriculum.
Are you really a teacher? I'm a teacher and I have no problem with the
benchmarks. They are actually quite rigorous and a vast improvement over current
previous state benchmarks. The curriculum is still controlled by teachers and
districts. The teachers can still decide how they teach something and use most
of the same materials they always used. This is exactly the type of
misperception I'm talking about. I'm not sure if it is ignorance or
these false perceptions are purposely put out there. I would suspect there is a
bit of both at play. The Common Core not without faults though.
The testing regime is way too lengthy and something needs to be done to vastly
shorten the tests or only test the students in certain grades. That is the
worst aspect of implementing the Common Core and I think most teachers would
I spent 3 hours at the state school board meeting tonight. They were discussing
the education question that Gov. Herbert has requested citizen feedback on. I
fail to understand why the state school board, who makes life-changing decisions
for the people of this state, are so opposed to hearing what the parents and
other interested citizens have to say about hot topics like this one. They seek
to lock the public out of the debate. Believe it or not WE are the major
stakeholders in these decisions!
To everyone: Generally, the debate on the common core is almost laughable. We
NEED to reduce class size NOW. We need to pay teachers more and restore
benefits, Curriculum decisions don't matter with the class sizes our
teachers are facing. We won't attract or retain good teachers with our
current system of compensation plus laying all this stuff at their feet.Kings Court:I agree with you mostly. However, the math
common core is a bit convoluted or different. I think there is genuine concerns
about it from teachers, students and parents alike. The fears about the
Language Arts curriculum is generally misplaced and the conspiracy theories are
generally humorous.I totally agree on the testing. But I hear the
SAGE tests are not exactly tied with the common core but come from the state
office of education via the legislature. I'm not sure what the connection
is generally. But most teachers hate them. They are very time consuming and
cause students, at least in high school, to miss too much class to do them. As
I said in a previous post they need to die.
@Mom of SixRIGHT ON!!!!!! I home schooled all my kids (4) and they
are further along than the public school kids. Common core is a common failure.
Root cause analysis.The single most significant problem we have in
our graduates is lack of useful math abilities. (Basic writing skills and
grammar come next) Physics, chemistry etc. are all unachievable without the
math. Go get the math books from the 1950's, junk everything in use now
and start fresh. It's our best hope. Oh, and if you can do it online so
many of the students can self-pace themselves and challenge out of the classes
that would be a bonus.It should NOT be unusual for 1/3 of high
school graduates to have at least done a year of basic calculus without being in
some fancy AP/IB program. We've dumb-ed down our expectations and the
students have thusly not been challenged. We've gotten too clever and
confused the world. We fail to excel because we don't expect it, from
either teachers or students.
I wonder exactly how many "Common Core" supporters have been approached
by 'Kings Court'. Just as there are plenty of Common Core supporters
who have no real idea of what is taught in school, I am sure that there are some
anti-Common Core supporters who haven't taken the time to read the new
standards. 'Mom of Six' is absolutely correct, the new math standards
are problematic for many students and upper level grade children are receiving a
less challenging education, albeit confusing. 'iceskatercjudd'
pointed out one valid issue; if Common "Core standards make it harder for
kids to find their way to AP, IB, or other advanced standards, we are only going
to see it (our ability to compete internationally) fall farther" behind.
Those of us who have read the new standards and are anti-Common Core have
other concerns as well. A great way to voice our discontent would be how we
vote at the next election. Let's hope that we have some good people to
YES, we absolutely need to prepare students for careers and higher education
pursuits. But what this article, FAILS to acknowledge is that the *approach
these standards take- starting at the end (college) then working backwards all
the way down to Kindergarten breaking it down into benchmarks- does NOT take
into account actual brain development and capabilities! In regards to what they
expect students to accomplish and when. A uniform standard is a good idea to
help ensure quality education is received by all, but, for example, requiring
ALL babies to walk at 10 months will NOT change the biological FACT that only
some will be capable of doing so. It is perfectly normal for some babies to walk
that soon, as well as not until nearly 2 years of age; you CANNOT take a desired
goal, make it a requirement for all students, and expect that doing so will
somehow make it possible for it to be achieved by all. We need STUDENT based
education, not STANDARDS based education. This is a big part of the problem that
Teachers and Parents have with the Common Core/Utah Core standards, as well as
high stakes testing.
It is laughable that Gov. Herbert asserts that the State School Board
'cooperates' with local school board members, teachers, and parents.
Any in those groups who dissent from toeing the line, who would bring actual,
legitimate concerns to light are met with reactions ranging from being ignored,
to labeled as a 'fringe element' to being met with outright animus. I
know of MANY Elementary classroom Educators who have stated that these standards
will NOT work, yet feel unable to do so publicly for fear of losing their jobs;
their Principals and even their District officials have 'warned'
against speaking out in opposition to these standards. And again, it does not
matter how well Educators are prepared and trained to implement the new
standards, the FACT is that with so much being tied to the high stakes tests,
only the minimum required will be taught to the students, for the sake of test
preparation; and when that standard is so minimally set to allow the highest
possible number of students to 'achieve' it, (as it is with the CCSS)
the result will be students NOT receiving the best possible education, which
should be the Primary goal.
Of course SSB Chairman Crandall would agree with Herbert's decision to have
'higher education define what it means to be college-ready'; he wants
to keep his job on the state board. The problem is that what these standards
accomplish and what is meant by 'college-ready' is that students will
be prepared to enter 2-year colleges, community colleges. While beneficial and
legitimate, the FACT is that the vast majority of Students (and their parents)
aim for and desire their attendance in 4-year Universities- these standards
simply will not prepare them for that. The goal should NOT be to get as many
students as possible to achieve a lesser 'standard' to claim success,
the goal should be to provide Utah students with the highest quality education
possible and to prepare them for pursuits in higher education, or careers as
they so choose. You do not LOWER the bar so that more can reach it, you help
those who struggle to reach the bar, so that even if they fail, they will still
have achieved more than they thought themselves capable.
By signing onto Common Core, they now take and keep longitudinal data on every
aspect of your child (NOT just academic, but physical, behavioral, financial,
etc.). You as a parent cannot even protect this information anymore as they
have changed the FERPA laws to say it is just "Best Practice" to inform
the parents. Bill Gates, who is funding a major part of the Common
Core drive said "When the tests are aligned to the common standards, the
curriculum will line up as well-and that will unleash powerful market forces in
the service of better teaching." YES, this will lead to uniform
Curriculum. It will be made and sold by those who funded this drive in the
first place, and all of the information and data about your kids will be theirs
for the taking. Google David Coleman,known as the
"architect" of Common Core. He is now the President of the College Board
who the writes the SAT/ACT. They are changing it to follow Common Core. This leads to Uniform Curriculum!RESEARCH!
Common Core was designed for the millions of illegal children invading our
country. They don't speak English, therefore, classes are now taught in
Spanish. According to the Feds, these kids are labelled "special
education" kids. I know, I worked inputting data for these kids and that is
what we were told which category to put them in. It is reprehensible that
textbooks today have glossaries in both English and Spanish. Why? English is the
primary language (heaven to bid that we make it the formal language of the
United States--don't want to upset the liberals and those dainty, weak of
heart nonspeaking illegals. The Federal Government has no business being in the
business of teaching our children. Common Core is a complete and utter failure
and is just a ploy by the liberal left to dummy down kids. Home schooling is the
way to go. Until teachers rid themselves of their corrupt Teachers' Union,
the status quo will remain the same. Lousy and corrupt.
I never hear anything overwhelmingly good about Common Core. As one wise and
informed reader stated, the Constitution does not provide for the Federal
Government to dictate anything to do with education - that is left up to the
states and quite frequently, I read in the news that another state is option out
of CC.Instead of trying to compete with the world, let's try to
educate our children and let them use their education to compete with their
peers if they so choose.
@Kings Court- Indeed I am a teacher. I understand very well that Common Core is
a set of Standards, and not a curriculum. I work for a district that is often
applauded on a state level. Yet, most people fail to realize that the teaching
morale is at an all time low in this "applauded" district. I have spoken
with numerous teachers from various schools, who feel the same way I do. We are
told as teachers that we will tow the district line or face "serious
consequences". Where is the academic freedom in that? My guess is that you
are a secondary teacher. When you only teach one subject a day, of course these
standards would not seem that different to you.
Common "corn"! Do away with the Department of Education and get the
Federal Government out of education. The several states will do just fine
competing with each other and we will save billions of dollars. Time to wake
Parents, are you teaching your children to use Khan Academy on the internet? It
is free and it is an awesome resource. Those who utilize it will have a distinct
advantage over those who don't! Who needs Common Core?
'Common Core,' in fact, has become so contentious that it is dividing
us on things we all actually agree on, like the need of local control.....Quote Federal funding will never lead to local control but
continually reduce it. So, based on the "things we all actually agree
on", we cannot accept Common Core because it is federal funded. We need to
reverse the flow of power from the states to the federal government.Secondly the flow of power from parents to "experts" also needs to be
reversed. A vast majority of the people of this land are sick and tired of not
being listened too, and that includes deciding what PART of the discussion we
can participate in. These are OUR children, not yours. These are OUR tax
dollars, not yours. Administration and State legislators are recipients of
taxpayer money not providers of same!Finally, as another very recent
articles in the DesNews have shown, we need more skilled people not more
academics. How about helping those children who wish pursue those skills. In
Math concentrate on teaching about private debt, compound interest and checking
your change accurately.