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A quick guide to gun ownership in America

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  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    July 16, 2014 8:30 a.m.

    Americans have a 1 in 514,147 chance of being killed by “firearms discharge. Just last week we read about a university study where one in 10 people who drink alochol will die from the effects. Statisically, your chances of dying from alcohol are 5140 times higher than being killed with a gun, even in Chicago! We are worrying about guns?

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    July 16, 2014 8:45 a.m.

    Yes, we are worrying about guns. Those people who chose to drink alcohol usually kill only themselves, unless they drive a car or pick up a gun.

    But when someone takes an assault rifle with a high-capacity magazine into a store or school, their targets were not able to choose.

    The incredibly inane arguments of the gun lovers are pure nonsense.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 16, 2014 8:53 a.m.

    Just saw a study done by the CDC. In 14 states gun deaths exceed motor vehicle deaths, Utah is one of them.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 16, 2014 8:59 a.m.

    IMO any time you try to shrink a complex issue like this down into a "Quick Guide" (especially when you pretend it's about race, gender, age, politics, where you live, etc)... you don't really add anything of value to the conversation. You are just looking to divide, and cause contention. These are the exact demographics politicians constantly try to divide us on. So I'm going to try not to go there today.

    Don't let them make it about "Race".

    Don't let them turn it into a "Political" issue.

    These are two of the biggest tools people use to divide us, and get people at each other's throats. I say... don't let him do it!

    Guns are not about race. Guns are not about politics. As the Bill of Rights states.. it's a right that shall not be infringed. For political benefit OR for race baiting.

    I hope we can resist going for the division and contention bait deeply implanted in this "Quick Guide" to such a complex issue... And try to discuss the complexities, instead of the stock division-angles so conveniently provided by the author...

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    July 16, 2014 9:08 a.m.

    @ one old man; Never heard of drunk driving where innocent people are killed and maimed by someone "choosing to drink"? Come on man!

    @ Roland Kayser. That "study" was debunked a long time ago! On average in 2012, 92 people were killed on the roadways of the U.S. EACH DAY in 30,800 fatal crashes. That's about 350,000 people a year!

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 16, 2014 9:15 a.m.

    Those who want to disallow the 2nd Amendment use the 1st Amendment to air their views. What irony!

    Some would have us turn into a police state where we cower in fear, either fearing that the government will do nothing or fearing that it will replace our God given rights with limited rights from government.

    We are free to act. That is called agency. However, agency requires accountability. We have laws that punish criminals AFTER they have acted. Those who want government to punish before we have acted are those who want the government to take away firearms. They would rebel against the government if they had to get permission from a government official before they could make public comments.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    July 16, 2014 9:27 a.m.

    Our constitution gives us the right to own a gun. It also enables us to pass laws to punish those who's gun was used either accidently or on purpose to cause harm. Our discussion should be more around strict punishment for those who choose to own a firearm but are careless. I for one would like to see minimum jail sentences for someone who's gun was used in accidental death, injury or suicide. Someone is more likely to have someone they love be injured by their gun than they are to have it used on an intruder. It's a fact, not having a gun in your house is the safest choice you can make for your family. The NRA and the gun lobby are trying to sell you a dangerous thing and the educated and informed are less likely to take the bait.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 16, 2014 9:30 a.m.

    Google "Firearm Deaths in Utah - Utah Department of Health"...

    Notice by far the biggest part of the pie-chart, (84.3%) of Utah gun deaths were "suicide"/intentional. 10.7% were "Homicide/intentional. "Unintentional", "Undetermined" and "Other"... all the rest of the categories combined = 5% of the gun deaths in Utah.

    Comparing traffic-deaths and gun-deaths is apples-to-oranges comparison. One is mostly accidents. The other is mostly intentional.

    We can reduce traffic-deaths by reducing accidents (only 5% of gun-deaths are accidents). We need another focus to reduce gun-deaths. Like reducing the reason people use guns for suicide, and for homicide. Just adding gun laws will not end that tragic trend. It requires a more in depth solution.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 16, 2014 9:46 a.m.

    To Mountanman: Your figure is off by a factor of 10. In 2012, 34,000 Americans died in motor vehicle accidents. In 2011 the figure was 33,000

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    July 16, 2014 10:13 a.m.

    If we outlaw personal ownership of autos, the auto related deaths will disappear. The arguments for gun control

    If the supporters of gun control on the basis of deaths from gun shots are honest, they would be fighting to outlaw personal ownership of autos. But since they do not, one must conclude the gun ownership issue is for other reasons.

    We will get the argument only military trained people should be allowed to own guns, but wait was it not a military trained person in Logan, was it not a police man with his service revolver that shot his family.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    July 16, 2014 10:33 a.m.

    Mountanman
    Hayden, ID

    You math is so off the charts wrong,
    it's not even worth correcting...

    ====

    As for both you and Mike...

    Utahns killed annually in order --

    1. Overdose by LEGAL drugs
    2. Guns
    3. Automobiles

    fyi -- killed by marijuana -- ZERO.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    July 16, 2014 10:42 a.m.

    one old man implies Those people who chose to drink alcohol usually kill only themselves, unless they drive a car. "But when someone takes an assault rifle with a high-capacity magazine into a store or school, their targets were not able to choose." The other vehicle had a choice from a DUI? The pedestrian killed by a DUI had a choice?

    Segee, Robert Dale, 1944, 167
    Unknown arsonist, 1958, 100
    González, Julio, 1990, 87,
    Graham, Jack Gilbert, 1955, 44
    Doty, Thomas G., 1962, 44
    Gonzales, Francisco Paula, 1964, 43,Burke, David Augustus, 1987, 42
    Frank, Julian Andrew, 1960, 33
    de la Torre, Humberto Diaz, 1982, 24Álvarez, Juan Manuel, 2005, 11

    595 people killed in mass killings and not one shot was fired.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2014 11:06 a.m.

    @Mountanman
    "Americans have a 1 in 514,147 chance of being killed by “firearms discharge."

    Considering we have around 300 million people and around 10,000 deaths each year by firearms, it would be around 1 in 30,000 each year as the odds of dying from a gun and something like 1 in 75,000 if we removed suicide-by-gun. 1 in 514,147 sounds like the odds of accidental gunshot wounds (unless I'm playing Oregon Trail in which case I swear it's 1 in 40).

    "On average in 2012, 92 people were killed on the roadways of the U.S. EACH DAY in 30,800 fatal crashes. That's about 350,000 people a year!"

    92 deaths per day * 365 days... if we round those up to 100*400 that would be 40,000 people a year, not 350,000 people a year. You even said 30,800 fatal crashes, why would you think an average fatal crash kills 11 people each?

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    July 16, 2014 11:14 a.m.

    @jsf
    Centerville, UT

    ...but wait was it not a military trained person in Logan, was it not a police man with his service revolver that shot his family.

    10:13 a.m. July 16, 2014

    ========

    But wait --
    Aren't you and your ilk the one who keep insisting that the MENTALLY ill can not have their 2nd ammendment rights infringed?

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    July 16, 2014 11:22 a.m.

    In Utah consumption is illegal but on a national level researchers from Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health have reported that fatal DUI accidents involving marijuana have tripled during the previous decade.

    Although alcohol contributed to about the same percentage of traffic fatalities, about 40 percent, drugs were shown to be twice as prevalent in traffic fatalities in 2010 than in 1999.

    Of the drug involved, marijuana proved to be the main drug involved in the increase, contributing to 12 percent of the 2010 accidents compared with 4 percent in 1999.

    “Currently, one of nine drivers involved in fatal crashes would test positive for marijuana,” said co-author Dr. Guohua Li, director of the Center for Injury Epidemiology and Prevention at Columbia.

    "fyi -- killed by marijuana -- ZERO" Do we not get told often that the Koch brothers tell us cigarettes don't kill. The lying scientists promoting a internal killer. Now we are told smoking marijuana doesn't kill.

    Ammonia levels were up to 20 times higher in marijuana smoke than in tobacco smoke. Levels of hydrogen cyanide and nitrogen-related chemicals were three to five times higher

    Driver charged with DUI Marijuana after deadly crash in Vancouver

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    July 16, 2014 11:26 a.m.

    Utah has a very high suicide rate.

    84% of gun deaths in Utah are suicides.

    I think most rational people would agree that those who are attempting suicide are not in their right mind - they are, by definition, mentally ill.

    Sri Lanka used to have the highest suicide rate in the world, with the preferred method being an unregulated pesticide. When the Sri Lankan government more tightly regulated the pesticide, the suicide rate fell by 50%. Experts who study this morbid phenomenon have discovered the impulse to kill oneself often passes.

    How do we even attempt to prevent the mentally ill from acquiring guns, or take their guns away from them?

    If we do nothing, we're (tacitly) admitting the lives of suicide victims are not worth saving.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 16, 2014 1:07 p.m.

    Just wait, Obama and his anti-gun propaganda machine will soon declare that anyone who keeps a firearm in his home is mentally ill. They are already stigmatizing anyone who eats at a fast food restaurant.

    When citizens will not stand up for the Constitution; when citizens get caught up in Obama's divisiveness; when citizens demand that government control their lives; those citizens have abdicated their responsibility to limit the scope and the authority of government.

    If anyone doubts what I've just written, they can dust off their copy of the Constitution and start reading. I'll help you out by giving you the first words of the Constitution: "We the People of the United States,"

    We are in charge.

    We are responsible to limit the scope and the authority of government.

    We are responsible to see that Obama keeps his oath of office.

    We are responsible to see that each guaranteed freedom is kept free from ANY infringement.

    Those who want government control of our lives are living in the wrong country.

  • well informed Salt Lake, UT
    July 16, 2014 1:09 p.m.

    I have a hard time being able to trust anyone that carries a gun. The police are the exception of course.

  • INTELLECTUAL Salt Lake, UT
    July 16, 2014 1:17 p.m.

    I have a question;

    Does the LDS church allow missionaries to carry a gun? In the U.S of course. They are vulnerable and maybe they should to protect themselves.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 16, 2014 1:31 p.m.

    10CC,
    It's true that humanity has a lot of suicides. I do not agree that you need to be "Mentally Ill" to commit suicide. Some are just drunk, or depressed, or trying to punish somebody else, or just suffering too much to take it anymore.

    Are we going to take away people's 2nd amendment rights if they drink (EVER)? Because you never know when it will happen. No 2nd amendment rights if you have ever had depression? Even once?? Because that's were it could go IF we give you your liberal definition of "mentally ill".

    Fact is... the government just doesn't know our mental status every day of our lives. We could be just fine 364 days of the year. The government doesn't have a way to monitor us that closely (Yet).

    So... should we take away ALL guns?... because everybody has a POSSIBILITY of being depressed, or drinking alcohol, or just getting fed up and not wanting to live anymore? Because that's where your anybody who commits suicide is "Mentally ill", and anybody can commit suicide... logic leads us...

    Parents and family know your daily mental status better (not the politburo).

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    July 16, 2014 2:10 p.m.

    @ Roland Kayser and airunaut: Wikipedia: "On average in 2012, 92 people were killed on the roadways of the U.S. each day in 30,800 fatal crashes." 92 fatalites each day times 365 days= 33,580 fatalities per year! The first time I did the math in my head and was off by 80 people! I therefore stand by my comment! Drive safely!

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    July 16, 2014 2:25 p.m.

    MM, you need to work on your reading comprehension. Read my post again. You missed an important detail.

    I have seen the results of drunk driving too many times. We have laws that try to control it. Why can't we have laws to try to control possession of guns by people who should not have them.

    The Second Amendment DOES NOT guarantee unlimited gun rights. We just choose to ignore a very important part of it. A part our Founding Fathers must have included for some good reason. That part about "a well regulated militia."

    You also need to brush up on your math. The extra zero in your numbers make a big difference. About 30 per day are killed by guns. 30 x 365 = 10,950. The National Safety Council says that 35,200 died in traffic accidents. Far too many, but does it make any sense at all for you to try to tell us that 1/3 of that number is somehow acceptable?

    Nonsense!

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    July 16, 2014 2:46 p.m.

    @jsf

    The problem with that research is marijuana is detectable in your system around 30 day's while alcohol, meth, coke, heroin, you know all the safe drugs, are clear in 2 days from blood or urine, alcohol is hours, so one doesn't need be intoxicated on marijuana to get a DUI, this inflates the actual numbers. Imagine for a minute that if you got your buzz on a weekend at the beginning of the month, you could get a DUI weeks later while completely sober.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2014 3:05 p.m.

    @jsf
    "Do we not get told often that the Koch brothers tell us cigarettes don't kill. The lying scientists promoting a internal killer. Now we are told smoking marijuana doesn't kill. "

    There's a difference between liver disease and drunk driving. One is solely a result of alcohol, the other is influenced by alcohol but involves other things as well (like the decision to drive when one shouldn't have). When people claim that marijuana doesn't kill, they're generally referring to the medical aspect of it (while I'm skeptical of the claim, it's obviously way safer on that front than cigarettes), equivalents of lung cancer or liver disease for tobacco/alcohol.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2014 3:11 p.m.

    @intellectual
    "Does the LDS church allow missionaries to carry a gun? In the U.S of course."

    I doubt it. Carrying guns in meetinghouses isn't allowed (it's in the handbook) and having a gun on BYU's campus is an Honor Code violation.

    @Mountainman
    " 92 fatalites each day times 365 days= 33,580 fatalities per year! The first time I did the math in my head and was off by 80 people!"

    Your first comment said 350,000 fatalities per year. That's an error of 316,420 people.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    July 16, 2014 3:23 p.m.

    Mike, may I assume that your insistence that WE are in charge of our own choices applies only to men, and certainly not to women who could legally choose abortions according to SCOTUS during the last 40 years?

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    July 16, 2014 3:48 p.m.

    @ Frozen Fractals: You are right, my first number was a typo on my part! My apologies and please drive safely! 33,580 fatalities are still far more than get killed by firearms. In Switzerland, for example, people are required by law to own a gun and yet they have the lowest crime rate in the world! Proving guns do not cause crime and gun laws are worthless to stop crime! Its bad PEOPLE with guns and the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is by a good guy having and using a gun! Please support the 2nd Amendment! Your life, and your safety is at stake!

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2014 4:11 p.m.

    @Mountanman
    "In Switzerland, for example, people are required by law to own a gun and yet they have the lowest crime rate in the world! Proving guns do not cause crime and gun laws are worthless to stop crime!"

    Switzerland also has a universal gun registration and strict laws regarding the handling of firearms and required training. I'm honestly not sure if Switzerland has the lowest crime rates, but I know it's one of the lowest alongside many countries with very strict gun control and low gun ownership rates in Western Europe. What this should be an example of is that rather than total regulation or total deregulation, more guns or less guns, what we need is smart gun regulation. Most of western Europe seems to have figured out various combinations that work well even though they're very different from each other (Germany, Switzerland, etc).

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    July 16, 2014 4:48 p.m.

    The CDC data show, more than 200 people go to U.S. emergency rooms every day with gunshot wounds.

    Gun deaths by homicide, suicide or accident peaked at 37,666 in 1993 before declining to a low of 28,393 in 2000, the data show. Since then the total has risen to 31,328 in 2010, an increase of 2,935, or eight more victims a day.

    Mountanman said: "33,580 fatalities are still far more than get killed by firearms."

    Not that far.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    July 16, 2014 5:09 p.m.

    Mountain Man is demonstrating that Idaho education he received. So many low information voters are making the progress in sensible gun control so difficult!

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    July 16, 2014 5:13 p.m.

    jsf
    Centerville, UT
    Driver charged with DUI Marijuana after deadly crash in Vancouver
    •11:22 a.m. July 16, 2014
    [1. Vancouver is in CANADA, not Utah.
    2. Marijuana is legal in CANADA, and DUI is illegal, even in Canada.]

    Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah
    Just wait, Obama and his anti-gun propaganda machine will soon declare that anyone who keeps a firearm in his home is mentally ill.
    [Mike – Obama is NOT coming to get your guns.]

    @Mountanman
    "In Switzerland, for example, people are required by law to own a gun and yet they have the lowest crime rate in the world! Proving guns do not cause crime and gun laws are worthless to stop crime!"

    [Switzerland is also SOCIALIST -- And Military enlistment is 100% required. But thanks for proving MY point that Socialist countries in many areas can be far better improvement over the good 'ol USofA!]

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    July 17, 2014 9:45 a.m.

    Mountanman
    Hayden, ID

    Using YOUR analogy - drunk driving.

    In order to drive,
    You MUST have a License.

    In order to get that --
    ALL AMERICANS -- 100%, NO exceptions...

    You must be found both Physically and Mentally competant,
    are required to complete training,
    Tested - written, and practical,

    You are 1st given a learners permit - with all sorts of "restrictions",

    If you abuse or misuse that priveldge --
    You LOOSE that priveldge,
    and can go to jail.

    If you want to make guns like driving,
    I'm 100% cool with that --

    In fact, that's what I've been pushing for for YEARS!

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 19, 2014 7:21 p.m.

    Air:

    Fail! Your analogy falls apart for at least 3 reasons.
    1) You don't need a license to OWN a car.
    2) You don't need a DL to drive a car (or other motorized vehicle) on private property.
    3) Keeping and driving motorized vehicles is NOT guaranteed by the Constitution.