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Court lifts stay, but gives Utah chance to appeal same-sex marriage recognition

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  • Joan Watson TWIN FALLS, ID
    July 11, 2014 6:46 p.m.

    One encourages fighting for and doing all one can to preserve traditional marriages between a man and a woman, God himself ordained marriage between a man and a woman, with a warning "let no man put asunder." If same sex marriages become equal with traditional marriages - then the wind has been sown and a whirl wind will be harvested.

  • RockOn Spanish Fork, UT
    July 11, 2014 6:52 p.m.

    A child's greatest chance for success in life is proven to be when reared by a Father AND a Mother. A child reared in a step-parent relationship is 100 times more likely to be abused.

    Distorting the definition of marriage reduces our children's chances for success. That's a simple fact of life. Marriage is primarily about what is the most secure and effective way for children to learn. If people who don't care about rearing children want to co-habitate, then pass laws honoring their partnership, but don't distort marriage.

    This isn't about hating me or you. It's about making the best environment for children. Every child deserves a Mother and a Father. Let's put our efforts into solidifying the known equation for success, not diluting and distorting it.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    July 11, 2014 6:53 p.m.

    Good decision. These couples were married in Utah at a time when there was no effective ban in place against same sex marriage. They were legal when they were contracted; they should be recognized now.

  • firstamendment Lehi, UT
    July 11, 2014 7:07 p.m.

    ...and the propagandists are on the clock.

  • Primary Chorister Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2014 7:13 p.m.

    I do not understand how allowing two Utah women to marry "puts asunder" the traditional marriage of a man and a woman.
    If you truly want to preserve traditional marriages you would need to change the divorce laws. It seems that traditional marriages are being "put asunder" by the traditionally married man and woman when they decide they can no longer live together.
    One could put effort into strengthening all marriage relationships rather than discriminating against same sex couples.

  • firstamendment Lehi, UT
    July 11, 2014 7:16 p.m.

    Utah should stand up for the right to let each of us- all inclusive "We The People"- have a voice in decisions about, and defense of, marriage. What reason would our government ever have to legally enforce homosexual relationships? Gays can already love, vote, work, etc. there is no reason for tax payers to be forced to promote and enforce their sexual preferences.

  • Aggie5 Kuna, ID
    July 11, 2014 7:17 p.m.

    A world without any limits.
    But, then the lefts are the King of rules.
    It's a strange place this thing called life.

  • Snapdragon Midlothian, VA
    July 11, 2014 7:25 p.m.

    Primary Chorister says
    "If you truly want to preserve traditional marriages you would need to change the divorce laws."

    Just because there are some rotten apples out there, does not mean we will disregard the value of apples all together. The fact that so many marriages are failing is a sign of many troubling treads in modern day society. Embracing more troubling trends is not going to help strengthen the apple tree.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2014 7:44 p.m.

    To Snapdragon,

    I couldn't agree more with your comment. Various modern trends in society are leading to much disruption of individual lives and a general coarsening of society in the wrong direction. If we hope to strengthen society we should identify and support those values that have served America well for over 200 years. But then I have a biased point of view having one of those rare marriages that has endured for 37 years and going strong. Alas, we are going to have to find ways to maintain our values in a sea of pollution of many varieties.

  • koseighty The Shire, UT
    July 11, 2014 7:52 p.m.

    "The fact that so many marriages are failing is a sign of many troubling treads in modern day society."

    The group with the highest divorce rate in America identifies as "Conservative Christian." Perhaps we should start our search for causes there. The group with the lowest divorce rate identifies as "Agnostic/Atheist." Perhaps we should start our search for solutions there.

    Just an observation.

  • Hugh1 Denver, CO
    July 11, 2014 7:57 p.m.

    This appeal gives the term, "The agony of defeat," a special new life. Governor Herbert and Attorney General Reyes were denied a stay, requiring Utah to recognize 1000+ same-sex marriages. Instead they were granted a 10-day reprieve to appeal to the Supreme Court. No surprise there. Governor Herbert and his AG know that same-sex marriage will be recognized across the US, but just not how or when, so it's kick the can down the road time. Something as fundamental to the human condition as marriage is the perfect 10th vs. 14th Amendment States' Rights vs. Equal Protection case. Loving v. Virginia (1967) was remarkably similar in concept, where constitutional prohibitions against interracial marriage were overturned. And that's the elephant in the room in all of these recent decisions. What's next? The face-saving phase, but of course! 'We gave it our all, for you dear voter! Now here's the bill.' Governor, isn't it time to throw in the towel, this fight doesn't get any prettier.

  • Stormwalker Cleveland , OH
    July 11, 2014 8:21 p.m.

    @RockOn: "A child's greatest chance for success in life..."

    If you want to allow marriage based on success, then upper-middle-class Asian couples would be the only ones able to marry and have children.

    If, however, you look at the growing body of research that is finding two stable, committed parents are actually the best indicator of success – doesn't matter if they are two men, two women, or a man and a woman.

    The cries of "the children…" ignores the thousands of children who are already being raised by same-sex couples.

    And, in reality, marriage is about a host of legal protections, benefits, and rights that are enshrined in state and federal laws. Marriage, in Utah and other states, does not require procreation. It requires two adults, who are competent to consent, signing paperwork at the county courthouse. Laws about children are family law, not marriage Law.

  • Ken Sisler Newmarket, Ontario
    July 11, 2014 9:45 p.m.

    There is nothing in Utah law which allows same-sex marriages to take place. The only way this can happen if the law is changed. If I remember a few years ago, the people of Utah voted down allowing same-sex marriage. This is the current law-same sex marriage is not allowed in Utah.

  • Really??? Kearns, UT
    July 11, 2014 10:13 p.m.

    I just got done reading an article on another news website about how Utah experiences a higher amount of domestic violence than average for the United States. Shouldn't that be something we should be focusing on to help families and children?

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 11, 2014 10:23 p.m.

    @ Ken: You seem to be behind on the story, In December, a Judge declared Utah's prohibition on same-sex marriage unconstitutional. He did not stay his ruling, which allowed same-sex marriages to take place until the US Supreme Court placed a hold a few days later.

    The 10th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the ruling of the lower court that Utah's prohibition on same-sex marriage violates the Federal Constitution. They left the stay in place pending Utah's appeal to SCOTUS.

    So yes, the law was changed. Same-sex marriages were allowed. Same-sex couples were legally married and are now petitioning the Court to require Utah to recognize their marriages and give them benefits accordingly. The lower court ruled in favor of the couples. Utah is appealing the decision and asked for a stay on recognizing the relationships until all the appeals are completed. The 10th Circuit issued a temporary stay which will expire next week. Utah will ask SCOTUS for a stay pending completion of the appeal process. (This case is separate from the case challenging the prohibition on same-sex marriages.)

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2014 10:33 p.m.

    @ Joan Watson

    God also said don't eat shell fish, yet I don't see you petitioning Red Lobster....

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 11, 2014 10:55 p.m.

    @ Joan: "...let not man put asunder[]" is an argument against divorce, not against same-sex marriage.

    @ Rock: What studies actually show is that children do best when raised by two loving, committed parents - the genders don't matter. Another thing studies have shown is that marriage creates stability and encourages couples to work through the hard times and stay together - regardless of the genders involved.

    Same-sex couples are raising children. Prohibiting marriage to those couples will not suddenly put the children in situations where they are being raised by heterosexual, biological parents. If you truly want what is best for children, you will encourage their parents to marry - even if those parents are of the same gender.

    (And yes, I realize that the children are not biologically related to both parents. That applies to most adoption and assistive reproduction technology situations. No difference here.)

    The very conservative Heritage Foundation puts the chance of abuse by a step-parent at 33 times the risk of biological parents, and acknowledges that the risk goes down when the parent and step-parent are married, not just cohabiting. Not really an argument against marriage - same-sex or otherwise.

  • Understands Math Lacey, WA
    July 11, 2014 11:04 p.m.

    @meckofahess wrote: "If we hope to strengthen society we should identify and support those values that have served America well for over 200 years."

    200 years ago, black people could still be owned as property, Native Americans were being cheated out of their lands, women had no rights to vote and virtually no legal standing, and in many places there were still property-owning requirements in order to vote.

    I think our values today are several orders of magnitude better than the values of 200 years ago.

  • Starry starry night Palm Springs , CA
    July 11, 2014 11:59 p.m.

    Meckofahess...

    As the Beatles sang in "the end"

    "And in the end, the love you take
    Is equal to the love you make"

    Your "rare" 37 year loving marriage should allow you to celebrate the glory of love....instead your interpretation is that it should be limited to only certain people and denied to others...as though there is a finite amount of it and what there is must be hoarded.

    Where is the enlightenment in that attitude? True love shines abundantly and infinitely and beautifully...it is limitless and that my friend is why our perseverance will win the day.

    Love wins. Love is the most powerful force in the universe.

    Give a little bit...give a little bit of your love ....

  • Wilf 55 SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    July 12, 2014 2:29 a.m.

    What scares me is that, once same-sex marriage will be fully legal (and it will), a part of Utah's predominantly Mormon population will continue to abhor such marriages and predict apocalyptic outcomes. Some of the previous comments show it all too well. How immensely tragic it could thus continue to be for many of those same-sex couples, in particular if they have Mormon roots.

    Look, however, at the most advanced Western countries that have had same-sex marriages for more than a decade: those couples, a tiny minority, just blend in like any other couple. Their children, if they have any, are regarded as any other child. Positive acceptance of diversity is the hallmark of a civil and thus "civilized" society.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    July 12, 2014 7:52 a.m.

    This will be fascinating, because Sotomayor is the Supreme Court Justice for the 10th Circuit, in charge of issuing a stay, or letting the 10th Circuit ruling rule.

    Justices Sotomayor, Ginsberg, and Elena Kagan issued a blistering dissent in a very quickly ruled case last week about birth control (not the Hobby Lobby decision). The dissent accused the majority of making a mockery of their own decisions, and undermining societal support in the institution of the Supreme Court.

    Is our Supreme Court itself becoming so divided that Sotomayor may try to more assertively rule? I would like to think not, and if she issues a stay, conservatives in Utah should be very appreciative of Sotomayor.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    July 12, 2014 7:59 a.m.

    @Rock:

    The welfare of the children was also the rationale used to defend laws against interracial marriage. Though things have gotten much better in our society over time, there may still be some negative effect for the children of interracial marriages today.

    Does this mean we need to re-institute bans on interracial marriage?

    There are fairly high rates of suicide of gay teenagers in Utah. Does this mean a closer inspection of their situations should be undertaken, and if reasonable and unbiased people conclude perhaps their religious upbringing is a part of the problem, does this mean government should limit some religious marriages?

    I would hope not.

  • JBQ Saint Louis, MO
    July 12, 2014 7:59 a.m.

    What is really at issue here is not the rights of gays to marry. It is the right for the people of Utah to set their own standards for society. If the ACLU considers the right of gays to marry such a grave issue, then them campaign to the people of Utah to support such an important right. They refuse to do so and have tapped into a network of left wing judges with an agenda. Obviously, at the time that the Constitution was written, there were few visible gay relationships. This was not an inherent right for that document. The Judeo-Christian tradition was seen in the approval of those that signed. Now, we have a judicial system which tells the people of Utah that they are immature in their view of the world. Justice Anthony Kennedy, the swing vote on the Supreme Court, has made it known that gay marriage is the wave of the future. However, the people must decide this and not a federal government. Charles Krauthammer has concurred. King George dictated to the colonies. Rebellion resulted. Issues such as Common Core and abortion are not far behind in the federal agenda.

  • hockeymom Highland, UT
    July 12, 2014 8:52 a.m.

    @ Primary Chorister

    You must be aware that the Primary Theme this year is "Families are Forever"? I assume you are singing those songs with those kids in your ward - or are you not paying attention to what the Primary Sharing Time Outline says? The fact is that ANYTHING that takes us away from God's Plan for His children takes us further away from Him.

    When I saw the outline for 2014, I knew, as Primary President, that it was no accident that the theme this year was chosen to solidify for us all, especially those right here in Utah, what God's plan is for us, even amidst the turmoil we see in the news. Abortion, Divorce, Abuse, Women in the Priesthood and yes, SSM are all hot topics right now in Utah. We, within the church have an obligation to lend our voices to remind others what the Lord would have us do.

    I think you need to re-examine what you really believe and align it with what you are teaching those little ones through song on Sundays. Just a thought.

  • hockeymom Highland, UT
    July 12, 2014 8:57 a.m.

    @ koseighty

    Is it possible the Agnostic/Atheist group reports lower divorce rates because fewer of them actually marry? Not believing it is necessary, I mean, because they don't believe in a God who wants it? More Christians divorce because more of them are marrying? Please clarify the terms of the study and it's source.

  • Robert Johnson Sunland, CA
    July 12, 2014 9:04 a.m.

    A message to the opponents of marriage equality: Wake up. Even Scalia said the writing is on the wall. You are fighting a lost cause for bigotry and injustice. America is progressing towards freedom and equality whether you are willing to admit it or not.

  • ThornBirds St.George, UT
    July 12, 2014 9:05 a.m.

    Just think how the money that is being spent on legal costs could be used to help children and families who are struggling.
    It is difficult to understand how such intelligent and informed folks cannot see that they are pursuing something that they simply will not win.
    This lengthy and expensive court fight will be remembered, catalogued in history right beside the other recent unfortunate decisions made by Utah's government officials.
    It may turn out that the State of Utah will be famous in a much different way than it's leaders had hoped.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    July 12, 2014 9:43 a.m.

    Utah should stand up for the right to let each of us- all inclusive "We The People"- have a voice in decisions about, and defense of, marriage. A choice for, and about, each one of us. Individually. The state must work toward empowering individual freedoms wherever possible, and not let the mob rule. That's just socialism.

  • EstoPerpetua Holden, MA
    July 12, 2014 10:47 a.m.

    Marrying to have children is no longer supported by a large percentage of younger heterosexuals, they have children without marrying. Values based on facts, not speculations, are in the best interests of our society. My 52 year loving relationship with my partner and 10 year marriage is based on the facts of who we are. Two gay men who have served their country, worked and paid federal, state, social security, medicare, and property taxes, are now retired and living the American dream. Fortunately we live in America which is a nation of laws which provides us the pursuit of happiness and as its citizens continue to learn who we are, they support equality. Love wins and will continue to win as we move forward.

  • Light and Liberty St. George/Washington, UT
    July 12, 2014 11:14 a.m.

    Primary Chorister: When God says to not put something "asunder, " I pretty much think it is a good idea to not contradict Him! God is not the the Grandpa in heaven that pats our head no matter what we do! He actually has said that marriage is only between a man and a women? I am pretty sure he means what He said! I am absolutely certain he doesn't look down from yonder heaven and says, "sure, go ahead and change my definition of marriage. It is no big deal! Life is good! just be happy!" Wow, I am not going to change Him into the image I want Him to be. I think He is pretty secure about who He is and what He stands for, don't you think?

  • Bob A. Bohey Marlborough, MA
    July 12, 2014 12:00 p.m.

    To Joan Watson and all who oppose equal rights for the LBGT community. Simply put, whatever your justification, you are completely wrong. I know this to be true through through the faith and testimonies of those who are in favor of equal rights for all.

  • omahahusker Modesto, CA
    July 12, 2014 12:11 p.m.

    The proliferation of same sex marriage is another step in the downward decline of America. God won't punish the citizens here on earth, but he will stand by as we destroy each other. We the people tried to do the right thing. Hollywood, corrupt politicians and agenda driven judges put us on this path. Marriage is between a man and woman. If a same sex loving couple want a civil union so they can share their lifestyle, so be it. Please don't corrupt the word marriage. That is not hateful, that is how we compromise in a just society.

  • nonceleb Salt Lake City, UT
    July 12, 2014 12:53 p.m.

    At my last count (it seems to increase weekly) states with SSM bans are 0-21. The Supreme Court struck down DOMA and let a lower court ruling striking down California's Prop 8 stand. Is Utah's appeal that superior? What a waste of time and taxpayer's money.

  • Light and Liberty St. George/Washington, UT
    July 12, 2014 1:09 p.m.

    Wilf 55:would you also call legalization of polygamy the mark of a civilized society? You call legalization of SSM a tolerate anything society, but I doubt most folks would concur that a civilized society is one where a child can't have both a father and a mother, or that any action, whether legal or illegal, is tolerated!

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    July 12, 2014 1:27 p.m.

    The end of the stay is near. This could be horrific, or no big deal whatsoever.

  • El Chango Supremo Rexburg, ID
    July 12, 2014 3:18 p.m.

    Marriage between a man & a woman is the only marriage that makes sense!

  • A Quaker Brooklyn, NY
    July 12, 2014 4:49 p.m.

    @omahahusker: This lawsuit concerns Utah Amendment 3. Perhaps if Utah had not banned even civil unions in their zeal to express disapproval of homosexuality, what you suggest would be a possibility. But, Utah went for ALL the marbles. No marriage. No civil ceremonies. Declaring void any legal marriage performed elsewhere.

    The resultant Amendment is so transparently an expression of a desire to disadvantage and punish a minority whose "lifestyle" (and by "lifestyle," I mean life) otherwise violates no law. It's hard, even ex post facto, to come up with a legal theory supporting a legitimate state interest. How would any higher court ever allow such an expression of raw animus, devoid of any legitimate governmental interest, to stand?

    I think we're in the process of finding out that they don't.

  • HENELSON lindon, UT
    July 13, 2014 10:58 p.m.

    We the people of the state of Utah have the responsibility and sovereign right to govern ourselves and pass laws that we believe to be best. We delegate a portion of our rights to the State and a smaller portion to our Federal government. Amendment three is the voice of the people of Utah. Although a small portion of Utah citizen's do not agree with this law, the majority do AND that majority have collective rights to pass this law. When judges override the voice of the people we know that our freedom to organize is at risk of "philosopher kings". Our founders gave us the right to pass this law and they reserved to the state more rights than that of the feds. Do not be confused - we have the right. We can be diverse and lead this nation even if misunderstood by those who disagree. We still exercise our rights and defend this core value. We the People of the State of Utah are sovereign and we make and pass laws that we believe are best. Thank you Sean Reyes and Gary Herbert for defending our law and the voice of the people!

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    July 14, 2014 4:30 a.m.

    @HENELSON 10:58 p.m. July 13, 2014

    Yes we have the right to make and pass laws that we believe are best PROVIDED they do not violate the provisions of the United States Constitution. with Amendment 3, the judge rightly overturned a law that violates the United States Constitution. Thanks to the judges for correctly doing their job.

    So tell me this -- if the people of Utah passed a law that denied women in Utah the right to vote, thinking that it was a law that we believed was best, what do you think the judges should do with it?

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    July 14, 2014 7:25 a.m.

    JBQ says:

    "What is really at issue here is not the rights of gays to marry. It is the right for the people of Utah to set their own standards for society."

    Bigotry is a pretty poor standard to set for society.

    The USA is a multi-cultural society, not a "Judeo-Christian" society.

    @hockeymom;

    Bigotry and discrimination take you further away from god; think about it.

    @Light and Liberty;

    God didn't say anything about marriage (psst; he doesn't exist).

    @omahahusker;

    You heterosexuals have "corrupted" the word marriage all by yourselves. You need our help to correct the situation.

    Light and Liberty says:

    "would you also call legalization of polygamy the mark of a civilized society?"

    I hope you're not LDS; that would be just too ironic.

    @HENELSON;

    WE too are "the people"; and we are citizens, protected by the US Constitution.

  • TheTrueVoice West Richland, WA
    July 14, 2014 8:28 a.m.

    @HENELSON: Your energetic post is simply wishful thinking here in mid-2014.

    "Amendment three is the voice of the people of Utah. Although a small portion of Utah citizen's do not agree with this law, the majority do AND that majority have collective rights to pass this law."

    So many fails in this sentence. The state can not "vote on" the civil rights of the minority. This is where the religious seem confused; they appear to be of the opinion that their religion trumps individual civil rights. Wrong answer.

    "Our founders gave us the right to pass this law and they reserved to the state more rights than that of the feds. Do not be confused - we have the right."

    No, you do not. You do not have the right to discriminate based upon your moral disapproval of a group of law-abiding people. It doesn't work that way in a constitutional republic.

    "We the People of the State of Utah are sovereign and we make and pass laws that we believe are best."

    Patently incorrect. Utah is subordinate to the Unites States constitution. State laws MUST past constitutional scrutiny, or they are ruled unconstitutional, as seen in Amendment 3.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    July 15, 2014 12:28 p.m.

    Re: "The group with the highest divorce rate in America identifies as "'Conservative Christian.'"

    Unsupported liberal/libertine blather that recent studies have completely debunked. Actively churchgoing people have actually been shown to have the lowest rates of divorce. Even the libertine left's desperate dogma of a 50% across-the-board rate is shown to be way high.

    The one group that does seem to have very high, though admittedly somewhat preliminary numbers, based on the paucity of reliable statistics, is same-sex marriage.