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BYU football players like the variety, travel independence offers

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  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 12, 2014 12:03 a.m.

    " Nebraska, UCLA, Michigan, Arizona, Arizona State, Wisconsin, Washington State, Cincinnati, Southern Miss, USC and Stanford. "

    Southern Miss definitely doesn't belong on this list. The Golden Eagles are 1-23 over the past two seasons and they compete in C-USA

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    July 12, 2014 12:17 a.m.

    I enjoyed the comments about not missing playing in places like Laramie. I remember LaVell Edwards once said that "Laramie isn't the end of the world but you can see it from there." I haven't heard complaints from either BYU or Utah about their new travel destinations. Apparently sports writers who travel with the teams don't mind the change either.

  • Challenge to the Foe Fargo, ND
    July 12, 2014 1:03 a.m.

    Go Cougars! Here's hoping for a great season with many exciting games all over the country. I'm planning on a warm week in Miami in December to see my Cougs play in their bowl game! Independence definitely has its advantages!

  • IndeMak South Jordan, UT
    July 12, 2014 6:23 a.m.

    We as a team just love traveling 15,000 miles so we can see historic sites. At least we aren't Hawaii. I'm sure the team really feels that way. If you say it enough, you start believing it.

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    July 12, 2014 7:20 a.m.

    College Footballs earthquake is still rumbling. BYU was fortunate to get the contract with ESPN but the conference re-alignment is still happening. The independence which has temporarily helped BYU could come crashing down if big name conference affiliated teams stop scheduling the Y.ESPN would not continue to schedule non marquee games. A good conference affiliation has more stability and a better long term outcome than independence.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    July 12, 2014 7:39 a.m.

    What's the point without conference positioning? What's the goal? It's time to join a conference...please.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    July 12, 2014 7:45 a.m.

    Several weeks ago Bronco lobbied the B12 for an invitation... now we read that the players like independence.

    The BYU program seems a little conflicted on the value of being independent and excluded from P5 conference membership.

  • IQ92 hi, UT
    July 12, 2014 7:52 a.m.

    I recall the Wyoming, Utah, Utah State, Colorado State, etc. days, and when they visited Provo year-in-year-out. Never had any doubt about what kind of influence BYU had on them—meaning a negative influence. They had a special brand of cheering just for BYU. A fresh group of teams to visit and who visit is more in line with the BYU mission. Personally, I hope they always stay independent. (A national championship is a pipe dream anyway.)

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 12, 2014 8:42 a.m.

    Friday an article about how BYU should be in the Big 12 and Saturday an article how great independence is. Seems like the DN sports writers just can't decide. Which is it? Independence or we belong in a big boy conference? Truth is BYU is independent because no conference wants them.

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 12, 2014 9:22 a.m.

    I view independence the same way Bronco views it. It is a great way to play lots of teams on national TV and get the word out there on what BYU is all about. BYU has the ability to make it work for now. But ultimately, independence needs to be a launching point into the Big 12. I doubt the Pac-12 will want BYU. Even though BYU brings much more money than utah or colorado, we were denied because of Sunday play. Unless the Pac-12 becomes so desperate for a team to bring more revenue in, they won't budge on bringing BYU in. The Big 12 seems much more willing to work with that.

    Unfortunately, it seems like Tom Holmoe is far too content with independence long term. He doesn't seem to see a reason for joining. I think he needs to realize that independence needs to be our path to get into the Big 12, not a place to stay long term.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    July 12, 2014 9:40 a.m.

    2fer

    Southern Miss was 12-2 and finished #20 in both polls in 2011; that's much better than anything Utah or Colorado have done in the last five seasons.

    Colorado - 2-10, 6-7, 5-7, 3-9, 5-7, 3-10, 1-11, 4-8 - hasn't had a winning record since 2005; shades of things to come for Utah.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 12, 2014 9:41 a.m.

    And here comes the damage control...

    The last 4 weeks has seen Mendenhall make it clear that he doesn't like independence (way to support your AD, Bronco) and byu fans finally acknowledged that they would much rather be in a conference. The ESPN contract was all but forgotten in the pleas to the Big12 and criticisms from the SEC and ACC. Holmoe can't deliver what his stakeholders want so the Des News is ramping up the "independence is great" sales pitch again.

    Since byu fans love to hate the Utes it's fun to point out that even the Utes, ostensibly shackled by their elite conference, play in three time zones this year. One of those games is in the storied "Big House."

    That said, who wants to be the first to talk about the most exciting home game the cougs have this year...Utah St?

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    July 12, 2014 9:54 a.m.

    Variety?

    Lol! Ya, because getting a variety of teams like unlv, Virginia, middle Tennessee, is way better than playing the same old teams like Stanford, Oregon, USC, and ucla year after year after year.

    How boring huh?

    Anyone buying this?

  • BYU Joe MISSION VIEJO, CA
    July 12, 2014 10:25 a.m.

    But for the involvement in the playoffs and Bowl game issues - Independence has real benefits. The variety is great but the inconsistancy is bad. Kind of like dating as opposed to being married.

    Some times you get great games and other - well not so cool - but the truth is if you could solve the Bowl game issue I would enjoy the rotation.

    Having said all that I must admit - Notre Dame figured it out best by getting to remain free and at the same time get 5 ACC games a year. Nice move.

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    July 12, 2014 10:30 a.m.

    Of course, Southern Miss belongs on this list. It's about the travel, etc., not the school's record. Just think of the great southern foods that the team can enjoy (hopefully) such as the ribs, pulled pork, etc. Hope the "training table" will include these great culinary delights!

  • Just Wondering... Gilbert, AZ
    July 12, 2014 10:45 a.m.

    ...why no one included RES on the list of exciting destinations? I thought that Utah was a prestigious P5 institution with a long history of football success, just like the others on the list?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 12, 2014 10:53 a.m.

    @indemak

    Yea because traveling around the country and going to bunches of stadiums is something no one enjoys. I mean nobody's bucket list involves traveling the country and going to sporting events in lots of different stadiums. That is why fans never follow their teams to other places to watch them play because no one enjoys doing that. lol

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 12, 2014 11:09 a.m.

    The head coach conducted the survey. What are the players supposed to say? The results are predictable. He was putting out a fire before it flared. You know, damage control.

  • Y Ask Y Provo, UT
    July 12, 2014 11:59 a.m.

    As a Cougar fan, I have objected to and hated Independence from day 1.

    I still do.

    I will not return to the Cougar Club and full support of BYU athletics until we have a home in a legitimate Conference.

    Period.

  • Michael Romney Salt Lake, UT
    July 12, 2014 12:02 p.m.

    One day the des news is telling us Independence is preferable to a power conference and the next its about how byu need to get in to the Big 12. BYU fans know there program is in a horrible situation and will likely never be relevant again as the P5 have all made it clear byu is not on the same level.

    Cheers!

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    July 12, 2014 12:15 p.m.

    Howard S.,

    Just because the players like independence doesn't mean that they can't say that inclusion in the Big 12 would be good for the program. I like independence as well, but I would take a Big 12 invite, and I'm sure Tom Holmoe would as well.

  • Sendero1 Mesa, AZ
    July 12, 2014 12:29 p.m.

    @Howard S.

    No conflict. If BYU can get an offer to a Power-5 conference on reasonably acceptable terms, it'll gladly go -- same as always. To date, that opportunity has not yet emerged from the shifting landscape of college athletics! But in the meantime, it does make sense to take the best out of the current circumstances -- not an altogether terrible or unendurable situation -- and enjoy it, wouldn't you agree? Take lemons, make lemonade -- capiche? See ya in Orlando, Howie. :-)

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    July 12, 2014 12:31 p.m.

    Somehow Howie expects BYU players to be disappointed playing as an independent. BYU makes the best of what they have.

    I wonder what he expects Ute players to feel like in December for a third time? Don't they know they play in a P5 conference?

    I wonder when the Utes and fans will finally start acting like a real P5 football team and fanbase.

    They've gotten worse since the MWC days.

    They sure seem conflicted about who they are and how they play.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    July 12, 2014 12:31 p.m.

    Why is it difficult to understand, BYU likes independence... better than life in the MWC. Even with the SEC and ACC snobbery, life is still better than in the MWC.

    Life in the Big 12 could be better still... But life as an independent is still good.

  • flatlander Omaha, NE
    July 12, 2014 1:06 p.m.

    Too bad almost all the games against top teams are away games but that's the price if you want to play them

  • Hope Shue-Topins Miami , FL
    July 12, 2014 2:04 p.m.

    A few weeks ago, Bronco said byu would "love to be in the Big 12." Since that isn't going to happen(ever), it's time to implement damage control by getting sound bites of players saying how much they love being independent, and having nothing really to play for!

  • Darth Vader Ogden, UT
    July 12, 2014 2:07 p.m.

    Racking up the frequent flyer miles are great too.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    July 12, 2014 2:15 p.m.

    When BYU was in the MWC and before, they nearly always won the conf championship. It became a given that the championship had to go through Provo. Utah achieved some parity in the last 15 years and TCU was good for a couple of years. I remember when BYU fans were bored with the Holiday Bowl.

    I do love the variety of independence. And I'm not worried about the NC. Only 11 teams have won a BCS NC, and now the deck is stacked even more in their favor. The NC should never be the BYU goal. If they go unbeaten for a couple of years in a row, maybe they get the invite, but people, the NC will consist same old teams year after year, one of: Alabama, LSU, Florida, FSU, with occasional flavoring of USC, Oregon, Oklahoma, Texas. Utah will never get there, nor will BYU. Washington? UCLA? Fuggeddaboutit.

    Just win, have a nice bowl, top 10. That's realistic. NC? Naw. Deck's stacked. Who cares? I haven't watched an NC games since USC Texas. I'd rather watch BYU vs Washington any day.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    July 12, 2014 2:22 p.m.

    Hey folks, this article was about traveling and great ESPN and BYUtv exposers. Former President Cecil Samuelson said we need better exposer and mwc was not one of them. It was a good thing BYU left and became independent. Sure Bronco M. said we want in with B12 but the question to those players was about having fun traveling. We are playing in bigger stadium everywhere nothing compare to those three places they mention every other years which was boring. Sure, realignment are still in progress doesn't mean to panic. We will know sometime when Tom Holmoe start to PANIC. I am sure BYU players have interest in joining one of those P5. If we do go back to mwc only if P5 Commish will allow this league in the mix which I dought it. The only thing I worried is the November Schedule.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    July 12, 2014 2:25 p.m.

    I admit its better variety than playing a WAC schedule, byu's only other option.

    But it pales in comparison to a "boring" and "routine" schedule playing powerhouses with home and home agreements year after year after year like the 65 power conference teams do.

    But yes, after those 65 teams, byu has the best schedule in the nation!

    LOL

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 12, 2014 2:42 p.m.

    @ scenic view

    Utah went 10-3 in 2009 and 2010, and finished ranked #18 and #23, respectively. Also, despite So. Miss's ranking in 2011, Utah still managed to win a MUCH more prestigious bowl game. 750K payout vs. 1.9 Million (per team). Also, keep in mind that for each of the past 5 years, So. Miss played in a conference that was far below the MWC and the PAC-12 You have a weird definition for "much better", but to each their own.

  • 4BS St George, UT
    July 12, 2014 2:53 p.m.

    @Chris B - I'm buying it. I like the variety. It's fun to watch the other programs throughout the country. I'm actually a little bored with the Utes beating up on Weber and Idaho St and then losing to the real PAC 12 members.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 12, 2014 2:55 p.m.

    Duckhunter:

    Happily, cougar fans can FINALLY check "go to a Middle Tennessee State game in Murfreesboro" off their bucket lists.

    Logan, Boise, Reno, San Jose, Las Cruces -- all got checked off Y fans' bucket lists these past few seasons, and hey....who all can say they've "been there, done that" in Hattisburg?

    COUGAR fans, THAT's who! Or at least that's who will be able to say that by Oct. 2015. And I suppose fans from Alcorn St, Appalachian State, Texas St, UTSA, and oh - hey...Middle Tennessee can all say that too! Woo-hoo!

    A-MAZ-ING!

  • esodije ALBUQUERQUE, NM
    July 12, 2014 2:56 p.m.

    Have to agree with IQ92. BYU would be stupid to make a national championship the goal of its football program; at the very least, the type of players it would have to recruit and the rules it would have to break to attract them to Provo (and keep them there), aren't worth the fool's gold that a NC represents. Independence, and the fact that almost all of the Y's games are on TV (ESPN, BYUtv, even NBC), solidified my status as a Cougs fan, and I know many others like me. (The only games I haven't been able to watch are the away games with the stupid PAC12, whose sports network is practically a pay channel unto itself.) How would I feel if the Y joined th4e Big 12? If it would mean that the Cougs wouldn't be on TV, I'd say to heck with it.

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    July 12, 2014 3:07 p.m.

    Careful what you wish for. Being part of the Big 12 would have many benefits. Travel to Lubbock, Stillwater, Ames, and a few other choice sites isn't one of them.

  • Old Navy Provo, UT
    July 12, 2014 3:27 p.m.

    Longtime BYU fan here, but I have to agree with ekute.

    This is like when your wife asks if you like what she made for dinner or if she looks good in the dress she just put on. You are almost obligated to say that you like it. The players were painted in a corner.

    Independence is ok, but I honestly don't foresee the Big 12 calling anytime soon. But like most BYU fans, I'll remain hopeful.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    July 12, 2014 4:33 p.m.

    Y Grad / Y Dad

    You said it better than anyone who posted before you. I agree 100%!

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    July 12, 2014 4:51 p.m.

    Best headline ever.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 12, 2014 4:54 p.m.

    You know last Christmas I wanted to take my family on vacation, my prefered destination was Hawaii, Kauai specifically, and I was all set to do it. But my wife and kids decided they would prefer to go to Disneyland instead for some reason so that is where we went. I really enjoyed myself at Disneyland, it was a great trip.

    The point being that even though we don't always get what we want immediately life is still pretty good doing some other things. Of course utah "fans" won't get this, or they will but they'll pretend not to, but most BYU fans get it. Life's good and independence is a lot of fun. I'm having a great time with it.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 12, 2014 4:59 p.m.

    Taysom4Heisman
    Heber City, UT

    "I doubt the Pac-12 will want BYU. Even though BYU brings much more money than utah or colorado, we were denied because of Sunday play."

    Whether byu would bring in more money than Utah or Colorado is highly speculative on your part. However, your assertion that byu was "denied" an invitation to the Pac-12 because of Sunday play is flat out false. Man up and acknowledge that the Pac-12 is beyond byu's reach.

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 12, 2014 5:01 p.m.

    Lots of these comments are wondering why there are articles both about how BYU likes being independent but how we also want to be in the Big 12. I've got a couple reasons.

    1) Both are true. We like independence a lot more than the MWC. It provides better money, schedules, travel, exposure, etc. But we would also like to be a Big 12 member. They simply don't want to expand yet. We are going to position ourselves as favorably as possible so that when they do look to expand we are a good enough option. And we like independence as the best way to get there.

    2) These stories are not written by Holmoe or Mendenhall. These are writers who are looking for an interesting story to write. Arguably the hottest topic this summer has been BYU's future and their position in the college football world. That's why we have articles promoting both the Big 12 and independence. What a writer says does not reflect BYU's standpoint. BYU is happy with independence as a way to move themselves into the Big 12 when necessary. And no random article is going to change that.

  • deseret pete robertson, Wy
    July 12, 2014 5:19 p.m.

    The question was : What the players like about BYU football.That's what they answered. Don't read more into it.
    2 -

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    July 12, 2014 8:02 p.m.

    Please, can we be done talking about BYU's independence vs. a Big 12 invite that may never come?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    July 12, 2014 8:19 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    The difference between your vacation story and BYU'S independence is that your family had the option to chose either Hawaii or Disneyland...

    BYU has no option except independence... and Bronco is on record that indy is not his preferred option.

  • slackoff green river, WY
    July 12, 2014 8:37 p.m.

    If you watched the football day interviews you saw BM answer the question about joining a conference, then you saw TH answer. As soon as TH started to answer BM turned his head and looked down. I for one do not think they are on the same page at all, but they are sure trying to make it look like that.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 12, 2014 8:39 p.m.

    @Two For Flinching

    I wonder if the author confused Southern Miss with the SEC's Ol' Miss or Mississippi State?

    @Herbert Gravy

    Then why didn't East Carolina or Middle Tennessee make the list?

    @scenic view

    Colorado has won 4 more wins than Southern Miss, what do you think would happen to SM if they played in the PAC-12?

    Also, Utah finished #18 5 seasons ago, 6 seasons ago we finished #2.

  • slackoff green river, WY
    July 12, 2014 8:44 p.m.

    If you watched the football day interviews you saw bronco answer the questions about independence. Then tom answered the questions, as soon as tom started answering bronco turned his head and looked down. body language does not match what they are saying.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 12, 2014 8:54 p.m.

    I wonder if Bronco will use this survey in his power point the next time he begs to the Big 12 for an invite.

    Considering that the only reason BYU is not getting a Big 12 invite is due to a lack of a qualified partner, he should also add a slide that includes a "List of Qualified Partners for BYU's Invite".

    The only question is who, since there is no one that really brings as much to the table as BYU.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 12, 2014 8:59 p.m.

    @Taysom4Heisman

    "I doubt the Pac-12 will want BYU. Even though BYU brings much more money than utah or colorado, we were denied because of Sunday play."

    ----------

    How about that you were never considered, like Boise State.

    Why do you think you are entitled to something?

  • Clinton Ute Clinton , UT
    July 12, 2014 10:07 p.m.

    It's funny how everyone thinks that joining the Big XII is just a phone call away between Holmoe or Mendenhall and some coaches in Texas. Conference invites come from university presidents and are about way more than athletics. But athletics do seem to dictate more than they should in todays world and BYU needs to back up all the talk they've been doing for the last few years. As a Ute fan who would like to see them in the Big XII its going to take more than 30 year old championships and wins against New Mexico State and the mighty power house of Middle Tennessee State to do it. But here's to hoping they can pull it off! I think it would be awesome to have USC in RES and Oklahoma in LES the same week!

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 13, 2014 12:44 a.m.

    @MyPerspective and Uteology

    Actually it's not speculative on my part that BYU brings more revenue than utah and colorado. It's the actual facts. Sure, utah now makes more revenue than BYU because they mooch money off of the conference, but BYU actually generates more. Same goes for colorado.

    And how does the statement "I doubt the Pac-12 will want BYU" mean that I think BYU is entitled to something? Yes, I very well understand that we were never considered. And it was because neither BYU nor the Pac-12 would budge on Sunday play. I'm not saying we would have gotten an offer had that issue been resolved. But it kept any conversations from even starting up.

    So I don't know where you guys thought my comments were wrong, but the numbers prove BYU generates more revenue through TV, ticket sales, etc. than utah or colorado. And I never said BYU is entitled to a Pac-12 invite. In fact, I was saying the complete opposite, that BYU will never be in the Pac-12.

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    July 13, 2014 1:15 a.m.

    I have to admit, although I wish BYU was in a conference, I am very excited to be wearing blue in Orlando this year (and off to see Baltimore at Tampa.)

    I am also excited to drive again to the Rose Bowl to see the Utes.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 13, 2014 7:28 a.m.

    Taysom4Heisman
    Heber City, UT

    "Actually it's not speculative on my part that BYU brings more revenue than utah and colorado. It's the actual facts."

    Again I'll ask...how is this an actual "facts." byu mooches money off of ESPN so take that off the table and show this board how byu brings in more revenue than Utah and / or Colorado.

    "And how does the statement "I doubt the Pac-12 will want BYU" mean that I think BYU is entitled to something? Yes, I very well understand that we were never considered. And it was because neither BYU nor the Pac-12 would budge on Sunday play."

    Again, the Presidents and Chancellors of the Pac-10 schools set forth clear criteria on which an invitation would go forward. Sunday play, contrary to your assertion, had absolutely nothing to do with it...nothing. byu is not entitled to have that which they have not earned.

  • PacUtes Salt Lake, UT
    July 13, 2014 7:53 a.m.

    @Y ask Y...now that is a true (and honest) blue fan.
    From a Utes fan...wish you the best in your wait for BYU to join a legit conference.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    July 13, 2014 9:02 a.m.

    It's great being different

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 13, 2014 9:39 a.m.

    I love reading cougar fans debate back and forth (as encouraged by house-organ DNews) between the merits of independance and the aching desire to join a real conference.

    And reading Ducky explain why he went to Disneyland instead of Maui (or Tulsa)? Wow, it doesn't get any better!

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    July 13, 2014 9:45 a.m.

    Y Ask Y

    "As a Cougar fan, I have objected to and hated Independence from day 1."

    Your constant complaining and put downs of BYU sports is proof enough that you were never much of a BYU fan to begin with.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    July 13, 2014 9:47 a.m.

    Utah'95

    Nobody's twisting your arm and forcing you to read any article concerning BYU sports, so why are you complaining?

  • Crow Sandy , UT
    July 13, 2014 10:08 a.m.

    @taysomforheism byu generates more money then Utah in tv revenue? Funny since Utah receives $18 million for their share in tv revenue. It has been speculated byu receives a meer $1million per home game and has to cover all of the production costs to keep the rights of their games which eats into their tv revenue? As for as ticket revenue for byu when was their last sell out? Let me tell you against Utah last year. byu did not even sell out for the Texas game. Compared to Utah who is on their 6 straight season of selling out their stadium even with two losing seasons.

    Utah has the better facilities in a power 5 conference. I know a lot of byu fans who are giving up their season tickets this year or have given up their season tickets because of independence. They are not content with the teams coming into les to play byu.

  • Cougs4Life Gilbert, AZ
    July 13, 2014 10:30 a.m.

    @myperspective:

    ESPN isnt a charitable organization. Like any successful business, they make investments that provide a return. If they didn't make more in ad revenue than they paid, they would renegotiate the contract. Based on all athletic revenue, including TV ad revenue with ESPN, BYU can generate more than Utah or Colorado. Would ESPN give a contract to every team if they were independent? No.

    Pac12 isn't a charity either. The Utes add value from: 1. A traveling partner for CO, who was invited first. 2. A 12th team to balance schedules and to create two divisions and a conference championship game that increased the value of the TV package. 3. Provide an easy win on the schedule for the marquee conference teams.

    Utah on its own could not generate equivalent revenue to what BYU does because not as many people across the country want to watch them play. Therefore, they mooch off the conference. Utah's contribution to the Pac12 has yet to earn a full revenue share, this will be the first year. Colorado got a full share from day 1? Utah isn't picked for the premier TV slots...they don't bring enough eyeballs.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    July 13, 2014 11:19 a.m.

    esodije
    ALBUQUERQUE, NM
    Have to agree with IQ92. BYU would be stupid to make a national championship the goal of its football program; at the very least, the type of players it would have to recruit and the rules it would have to break to attract them to Provo (and keep them there), aren't worth the fool's gold that a NC represents. Independence, and the fact that almost all of the Y's games are on TV (ESPN, BYUtv, even NBC), solidified my status as a Cougs fan, and I know many others like me. (The only games I haven't been able to watch are the away games with the stupid PAC12, whose sports network is practically a pay channel unto itself.) How would I feel if the Y joined th4e Big 12? If it would mean that the Cougs wouldn't be on TV, I'd say to heck with it.

    __________

    Any way you cut it, ESPN BYUtv and even NBC are pay channels. By way of Direct TV, Comcast or other, those channels are not free.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 13, 2014 11:22 a.m.

    C'mon moderators. You let this through on the Harvey Langi story, but you won't allow something much gentler on this one? Please explain.

    Duckhunter
    Highland, UT
    At this point I can't decide which outcome will bring me more laughs and amusement. If he comes to BYU the utah "fan" reaction will probably be even more hilarious than the speculation reaction has been, but if he stays at utah we are then going to hear about how great he is and a million other contradictions and funny pieces of hypocrisy. Frankly either is a win but the truth is it has already been a win. I can't remember the last thread that was this much fun.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    July 13, 2014 1:26 p.m.

    I prefer Independence. We don't have to play the same teams year after year. We also have opportunities to play all over the country.

    I still would enjoy having some associations such as ND had with the Big East and now has with the ACC. I would like seeing BYU affiliate with the B12 in such a way. Play five games a year, one neutral NFL stadium game, two home and two road games. Rotate through the schedule so that the stadium game is different each year, and play each team once every other year.

    I want to see Army and Navy on the schedule.

    I want to see BYU go after the best teams from the minor conferences. UCF and Houston/USU and Boise State/MTS fit the bill this year for three conferences. Get Northern Ill and/or Ball State on the schedule.

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 13, 2014 2:10 p.m.

    @MyPerspective

    Ok, I have no idea where you heard that Sunday play was not an issue for BYU getting into the Pac-12, but it was. Look it up anywhere you like. The Pac-12 did not want to move their schedules to avoid Sundays, so they immediately ruled BYU out, along with the fact that we are not a research institution.

    @Crow

    Yes, I know utah makes more revenue than BYU. I already mentioned that in my last comment. I said BYU GENERATES more revenue. According to reports (which I know are not necessarily accurate), BYU generates about 7 or 8 million dollars and they keep that money. No more, no less. utah generates about 5 million but they will make about 20 million because of their Pac-12 membership.

    And yes, it's true BYU doesn't sell out all of our games, but we still averaged 59,000 people per home game last year. I think we all know utah had a lot less people than that, and therefore a lot less revenue.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 13, 2014 4:20 p.m.

    Taysom4Heisman
    Heber City, UT

    "Ok, I have no idea where you heard that Sunday play was not an issue for BYU getting into the Pac-12, but it was. Look it up anywhere you like. The Pac-12 did not want to move their schedules to avoid Sundays, so they immediately ruled BYU out, along with the fact that we are not a research institution."

    I never heard that Sunday play was not an issue, not from a credible source. Your statement of fact does not a credible source make. I know exactly where you heard that Sunday play was an issue...byu fans made it up after Dick Harmon printed an emotional article proclaiming the Pac-10 presidents and chancellors to be bigots. byu fans began to attribute their misfortune to Sunday play and, as with most things byu, speculation repeated becomes an absolute fact. .

    Again, the Pac-10 presidents and chancellors were very clear about the criteria to be met and Sunday play was never part of the equation. Desperate and emotional byu fans made that up.

    That said, you talk like you have a credible source. Provide it, and I will happily read it.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 13, 2014 4:26 p.m.

    @Taysom4Heisman

    So I don't know where you guys thought my comments were wrong, but the numbers prove BYU generates more revenue through TV, ticket sales, etc. than utah or colorado.

    ------------

    Show us the numbers.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 13, 2014 4:28 p.m.

    Cougs4Life
    Gilbert, AZ

    "ESPN isnt a charitable organization. Like any successful business, they make investments that provide a return. If they didn't make more in ad revenue than they paid, they would renegotiate the contract. Based on all athletic revenue, including TV ad revenue with ESPN, BYU can generate more than Utah or Colorado. Would ESPN give a contract to every team if they were independent? No.

    So, according to you, byu adds value because ESPN said so. Applying the same logic, you must agree that Utah adds value and is a Pac-10 caliber institution...because the Pac-10 said so. Who are you to argue with the Pac-10 / 12?

    And that, Cougs4Life, is the reason we like our Pac-12 stickers!

  • Bob Santaquin, UT
    July 13, 2014 6:23 p.m.

    What??? The players can't have their own opinions???

  • Darren Rowe Heber City, UT
    July 13, 2014 8:42 p.m.

    @Uteology

    "Show us the numbers."

    I would be happy to.

    I have tried to provide URL's on my comments before, and they are always denied.

    But if you google "byu football revenue", the first result is an article by Deseret News on January 8, 2013.

    In the article, it clearly states that BYU generated $22.4 million in revenue with a $7.41 million profit. utah grossed $20.7 million with a $5.9 million profit.

    Which is exactly what I said in my previous comment. Once again, I actually back up my comments with facts, rather than throwing out whatever random idea pops into my head.

    And this is from 2012 by the way, when BYU was playing Idaho and New Mexico State in November.

  • greatbam22 andrews afb, MD
    July 13, 2014 8:47 p.m.

    @ Y Ask Y

    "I will not return to the Cougar Club and full support of BYU athletics until we have a home in a legitimate Conference."

    Enjoy your free time. :)

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 13, 2014 8:53 p.m.

    @MyPerspective

    "That said, you talk like you have a credible source. Provide it, and I will happily read it."

    I would be more than happy to give you a source.

    Like I said in my last comment, I have never been able to post URL's. They get denied.

    However, google "pac 12 doesn't want byu because of sunday play". The third result is an article by Lafe Peavler on Deseret News, from June 11, 2014.

    It says that both Sunday play and BYU not being a research institution contributed to our exclusion from the Pac-12.

    I know Lafe is not necessarily an inside source with the Pac-12. But his job is to write articles with some credible facts to back it up. I think we can trust there is some truth to it.

    And by the way, you also talk like you have some credible sources that Sunday play was not an issue. You also sound like an expert on the Pac 10 presidents' criteria to add 2 new teams.

    Give me a source and I will happily read it, my friend.

    As always, I back up my statements with fact, unlike quite a few other people.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 13, 2014 9:13 p.m.

    @Cougs4Life

    TCU and West Virgina do not have full share of revenues in the Big 12 as well. So what's your point?

    ESPN also has a contract with Boise State. No P5 league is bending over backwards to add either BYU or Boise State.

    To get an idea of BYUs national pull:

    Saturday, August 31 299K 3:30 PM BYU Virginia ESPNU

    * Third lowest TV ratings in that time slot
    * Lowest viewership vs Virginia on ESPNU (compared to 3 other games)
    * Out of 64 games on ESPNU, ranked #42 in ratings (MT @ BYU #41 and BYU @GT #33)

    Why so low? Where's your world-wide audience?

  • MurrayMike Murray, UT
    July 13, 2014 9:29 p.m.

    @ Michael Romeny

    Yeah like good ole Utah is relevant in the Pac10+2 right? Count on another 5-7 or even 4-8 season. Write it down!

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 13, 2014 10:52 p.m.

    Sorry, one of my comments was under the screen name "Darren Rowe".

    That is the screen name I used to use, but I typically use this one now. I just forgot to change it. Same person though!

    @Uteology

    Do you want to know why the Virginia game got such low ratings? There was a 2 hour rain delay, and the game got moved off of ESPNU. Of course it had low ratings. The game wasn't even going on when most people thought it was.

    As for the Georgia Tech game, that is not a great rating, but it's respectable. But do you really expect us to get a high rating playing MTSU? I think Alabama vs. MTSU would have a pretty bad rating.

    So one of the games has a decent rating, while the other two have very legitimate explanations for having bad ratings.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 14, 2014 12:23 a.m.

    Taysom4Heisman
    Heber City, UT

    "...article by Lafe Peavler on Deseret News, from June 11, 2014."

    So, your credible source is another byu fan? Thought so. Now, please show me where the Pac-10 presidents and chancellors said they were looking for an institution that would play on Sunday.

    Here's what the Pac-10 said...

    Pac-10 criteria in order:
    1) Academics
    2) Research
    3) Athletic prowess
    -Athletics press conference, June 17, 2010

    "The U's Pac-10 affiliation is an affirmation by the Pac-10 universities of the University of Utah's standing as a leading American university, also a condition for Pa-10 membership and without which judgment, the invitation would never have been extended."
    -David P. Gardner, President Emeritus of the University of California Education System

    "With the additions of Utah and Colorado, the Pac-10 is joined with the two most prestigious institutions in the Rocky Mountains."
    -Larry Scott, June 17, 2010

    I'm sorry, Taysom4Heisman, in no way was Sunday play a condition of Pac-10 membership. byu fans made that up and repeated it until it became a fact.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 14, 2014 12:42 a.m.

    @Darren Rowe

    In the article, it clearly states that BYU generated $22.4 million in revenue with a $7.41 million profit. utah grossed $20.7 million with a $5.9 million profit.

    -----------------

    The article was referring to data from U.S Department of Education.

    No idea how Deseret News got $22.4 million revenues for BYU in 2012, revenues that year were only $18.6 million.

    Here's the latest reported data from Utah/Colorado (2013) and BYU did not report 2013 data:

    Colorado Football Revenues (reporting year 7/1/2012 - 6/30/2013): $30,547,707

    Utah Football Revenues (reporting year 7/1/2012 - 6/30/2013): $27,640,267

    BYU Revenues (reporting year 1/1/2012 - 12/31/2012): $18,639,413

    Note that unlike Colorado and BYU, Utah only had partial share of the TV revenues last season.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    July 14, 2014 9:29 a.m.

    Uteology

    Your other biased, cherry-picked, "number crunching" is meaningless.

    The fact that most of BYU's games are on ESPN, while most of Utah's games are on the PAC net, says it all.

  • scott Alpine, UT
    July 14, 2014 9:42 a.m.

    I find in amusing that 5 years after the fact, Utah fans are still trying to justify Utah's invitation to the PAC.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 14, 2014 10:02 a.m.

    talkinsports
    Gilbert, AZ

    Uteology

    Your other biased, cherry-picked, "number crunching" is meaningless.

    The fact that most of BYU's games are on ESPN, while most of Utah's games are on the PAC net, says it all.

    -------------

    After 40+ years of discussions and BYU still begging to Big 12 for an invite, says it all.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 14, 2014 10:11 a.m.

    What's amusing is cougar "fans" desperately discrediting Utah as reason why byu should be included while completely ignoring the elephant in the room(byu can't beat Utah head to head).

    Even at les the cougars are 3-7 vs the Utes the last 20 years. lol.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    July 14, 2014 10:20 a.m.

    RE: Uteology

    “To get an idea of BYU’s national pull: Saturday, August 31 299k 3:30 PM BYU Virginia ESPNU…”

    I love that you picked this single game to support your claim that BYU has a small national audience. Here are a few details you failed to point out…

    1. The BYU/Virginia game had a two hour rain delay.
    2. Utah’s most viewed game in 2013 was vs. BYU, no other game was even close.
    3. BYU had 1.29 million viewers vs. Texas, 1.97 vs. Boise State, 2.18 m vs. Wisconsin, 2.29 m vs. Notre Dame, and 3.75 m vs. Washington. Two of those games were on Friday but still pulled in huge viewership.
    4. BYU had 13.9 million total tv viewers last season, Utah had 3.3 million (according to Nielsen’s ratings). Nielsens didn’t include the non-national games… which was roughly half Utah’s schedule so that comparison isn’t completely accurate. I would guess it was closer to 5 million total viewers (and would love it if any Utah fan could give me actual numbers for their conference games).

  • Surf is Up Miami, FL
    July 14, 2014 10:51 a.m.

    The frequent flier miles will definitely pile up. But traveling that often will likely result in some losses that normally wouldn't happen. Travel can be purgatory.

    Wow. I see a lot of posts from all of you usual suspects who have almost all claimed repeatedly that you have "moved on" from BYU. But as always it seem that U have been unable to move on. Instead you incessantly post negatives to all things BYU.

    I guess the utes occupation of the bottom slots of the PAC12 have U guys flailing to convince yourselves there is a bright of superiority somewhere in your U-niverse.

    Don't U believe it. Its just a mirage.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 14, 2014 10:57 a.m.

    Regardless of how Utah fans try to cook the books, Utah's athletic program is losing money and has to be subsidized by a school which already has millions in deferred maintenance to deal with.

    ekute

    Even Utah fans have admitted that the primary and secondary reasons that Utah and Colorado were invited to the PAC had absolutely nothing to do their mediocre football programs, which has become abundantly clear in the last three years.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 14, 2014 11:01 a.m.

    Wiscougarfan

    Stop confusing Uteology with numbers that don't support his biased, crimson-colored version of the world.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 14, 2014 11:26 a.m.

    @Wiscougarfan

    The rain made BYU world-wide TV audience stay away? Boy are you guys fickle fans.

    It wasn't about Utah, it was about BYU's world-wide audience.

    Nope, the viewership was high because of Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Texas, and Boise State, not BYU.

    The Friday time slot vs Boise State on ESPN 2, again BYU had the lowest ratings:

    vs Fresno 2.12M
    vs Air Force 2.0M
    vs BYU 1.9M

    Wisconsin 3:30 on ESPN:

    vs Penn State 2.2M
    vs BYU 2.1M
    vs Minn 1.8M

    I will let you do the research for Texas and Notre Dame.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 14, 2014 11:35 a.m.

    RE: Uteology

    “To get an idea of BYU’s national pull: Saturday, August 31 299k 3:30 PM BYU Virginia ESPNU…”

    I love that you picked this single game to support your claim that BYU has a small national audience.

    ------------

    I guess you missed the part where I compared your other 3 ESPNU games to the 64 other games on ESPNU? Let me quote myself again:

    Out of 64 games on ESPNU:

    BYU at Virgina was ranked #42 in ratings
    Middle Tennessee at BYU #41
    BYU at Georgia Tech #33

  • redthunder Ogden, UT
    July 14, 2014 12:02 p.m.

    I do not envy BYU (the fans and administrators). BYU is in quite the pickle. Indepence isn't working out so great and BYU's only hope to join a P5 conference isn't a good one. The Big XII has problems. The Big XII is more of a hegemony than a conference. Texas is king and gets as much of the pie as they want while the other teams get to scramble over the leftovers. Just happy that my team is in the comfortable confines of the Pac 12.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 14, 2014 12:12 p.m.

    Cougs4Life
    Gilbert, AZ

    Utah has yet to earn a full revenue share. Colorado got a full share from day 1?

    ----------

    I read this and wonder, what is your point? Are you getting at something? If so, please get to it.

    But you're not. You're trying to claim (ridiculously) that Utah is foolish for joining the conference on a graduated financial scale. Well I got news for you. That's how it's done in most cases. I don't know whether Colorado did or didn't do that, but they did have to pay a ton to get out of the Big XII. Utah did not. Nebraska's financial transition to the Big Ten was worse than either, as are all of the other teams that have switched conferences.

    If we're talking financially, Utah BY FAR got the best deal in joining their new conference. They had to WAIT for their revenue, but didn't have to pay a dime. Everyone else was forced to pay millions.

    And the worst part for you is, most BYU fans would agree to give up five years of revenue if it got them into the Big XII.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 14, 2014 12:17 p.m.

    Darren Rowe
    Heber City, UT

    And this is from 2012 by the way, when BYU was playing Idaho and New Mexico State in November.

    -----------

    Well I guess we can safely say it will be about the same for 2014. Savannah State and UNLV.

    LOL

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 14, 2014 12:20 p.m.

    @Wisconsin

    Okay, I was bored. Lets ignore the Texas game since it rained and apparently BYU fans are fickle so their world-wide audience doesn't tune in.

    Notre Dame on NBC, again lowest ratings was BYU. Even Temple 2.5 M viewers beat out BYU 2.29 M? No! How can that be?

    Georgia Tech 3:30 on ESPNU:

    Miami 857 K
    Pitt 362 K
    BYU 358 K
    Duke 161 K

    Saved by Duke from having the lowest ratings.

    I can go on but I think you get the point.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 14, 2014 12:29 p.m.

    talkinsports
    Gilbert, AZ

    The fact that most of BYU's games are on ESPN, while most of Utah's games are on the PAC net, says it all.

    ----------

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

    Right, Uteology... what are you doing coming in here with stats and facts?

    Don't you know that ambiguous and scantly-supported speculation is how Y fans roll? BYU showing up on ESPNU and ESPN 5 every Thursday and Friday night is the real proof of who's the better team.

    Every now and then, there's a Y fan remark that I literally sit and shake my head at and wonder if they know anything at all. And this is definitely one of them.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 14, 2014 12:30 p.m.

    scott
    Alpine, UT
    I find in amusing that 5 years after the fact, Utah fans are still trying to justify Utah's invitation to the PAC.

    ----------

    Only to BYU fans, because you guys can't stop bringing it up.

    We made it. You didn't. Accept it. Move on.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 14, 2014 12:37 p.m.

    Cougs4Life,
    Colorado made a lateral move, P5 conference to P5 conference.

    No doubt one of the stumbling blocks for byu is that in the unlikely event that inclusion was ever considered by the P5 holmoe would arrogantly insist on full membership from day one.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 14, 2014 12:37 p.m.

    Wiscougarfan
    River Falls, WI

    BYU had 13.9 million total tv viewers last season, Utah had 3.3 million (according to Nielsen’s ratings).

    --------

    So what's your point? Is there even a single Utah fan here claiming that Utah has a bigger or more national fanbase than BYU? I don't think anyone really believes that.

    Utah is limited to regional appeal and a very very small national reach. BYU has regional appeal with a larger national reach. But BYU is certainly not a national "brand" as so many of you claim. A national brand is Alabama, Texas, USC, Notre Dame, even Penn State. Very few teams are national brands... and BYU isn't among them.

    Yes, BYU has a decent national footprint. Utah does not. But that doesn't make BYU a national brand, like Coca-Cola.

    Utah fans bringing up TV numbers is absolutely relevant because it is an argument against Y fans' "national brand" claim. Thus, proper reply to that is not, "Well, look at Utah's TV numbers."

    Because no one is claiming Utah has more viewers than BYU. The argument is BYU is not THAT strong nationally.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 14, 2014 12:39 p.m.

    Surf is Up
    Miami, FL

    I guess the utes occupation of the bottom slots of the PAC12 have U guys flailing to convince yourselves there is a bright of superiority somewhere in your U-niverse.

    ---------

    No flailing at all among Ute fans. We know for a fact that Utah is superior to BYU. And most BYU fans know it, too.

    4 in a row
    9 of 12
    54-10
    Pac 12

    Beatdown complete.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 14, 2014 12:42 p.m.

    Uteology
    East Salt Lake City, Utah
    @Wiscougarfan

    The rain made BYU world-wide TV audience stay away? Boy are you guys fickle fans.

    It wasn't about Utah, it was about BYU's world-wide audience.

    --------

    Exactly like I said.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    July 14, 2014 12:51 p.m.

    RE: Tomahawk Red

    "So what's your point?..."

    Thank you for posting a reasonable account of both BYU and Utah's standing in the national picture. My post was in response to Uteology who was indeed insinuating that Utah has more national esteem than BYU. As both he/she and you have pointed out, in the national picture it is pretty much...

    1. Top Power 5 teams (i.e. Alabama, Texas, USC)
    2. Middle of the road Power 5 teams and outstanding mid-majors (i.e. Washington, BYU, Boise State)
    3. Lower tier Power 5 and up-and-coming mid-major (i.e. Utah, UCF, Cincy)
    4. The rest.

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 14, 2014 12:52 p.m.

    @MyPerspective

    I figured you wouldn't count my source as credible even though it's by a professional writer.

    Lafe Peavler is a writer whose job is to provide arguments backed by fact. If he only wrote biased BYU comments, he would be fired. It's his responsibility to provide credible information.

    As for your criteria, of course Sunday play wasn't involved for other schools. They already ruled BYU out and Sunday play is not any kind of issue for any other school. Sunday play was involved with BYU. But I think it's obvious that Sunday play would not be a criteria when considering any other school.

    Regarding your quotes, those do nothing to prove Sunday wasn't an issue. It just said the Pac-12 was excited to have utah.

    What do you expect them to say? "We don't really like utah, I don't know why we added them.". Of course they say they're excited to have them. It's like when coaches say they believe that a 2-star walk on could be a future star.

    Once again, you provided no proof that Sunday wasn't an issue. You dodged the topic with random quotes.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 14, 2014 12:54 p.m.

    ekute
    Layton, UT

    No doubt one of the stumbling blocks for byu is that in the unlikely event that inclusion was ever considered by the P5 holmoe would arrogantly insist on full membership from day one.

    ----------

    Already happened with the Big XII. In fact, BYU arrogantly demanded more than that.

    The conference considered BYU when they needed to get back to 10 teams, brought BYU into the discussion, and Holmoe promptly proceeded to act like he was the Texas Longhorns.

    Something to the effect of, "Your conference is in real trouble right now... unstable and uncertain. You need BYU. We're a national brand. We will save this conference. We have fans all over the world! So if you really want us, it's gonna cost you! FULL membership from day one, PLUS we don't have to share a dime of our own TV revenue, and we keep all of our broadcast rights. That's the deal. Take it or leave it."

    Big XII said, "leave it"... and promptly extended an invite to TCU.

    Now Holmoe and administrators leap at every opportunity to deny this happened because it was such a monumental embarrassment.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 14, 2014 12:57 p.m.

    As far as Bowl game vs Washington, it had a rating of 2.3, #18 out of 36 bowls games.

    2011: Utah-GT had a 2.71 rating (CBS) and BYU-Tulsa 1.43
    2010: Utah-Boise 3.78 and BYU-UTEP 2.11
    2009: Utah-Cal 2.81 and BYU-OrgState 2.58

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 14, 2014 12:59 p.m.

    Wiscougarfan
    River Falls, WI

    1. Top Power 5 teams (i.e. Alabama, Texas, USC)
    2. Middle of the road Power 5 teams and outstanding mid-majors (i.e. Washington, BYU, Boise State)
    3. Lower tier Power 5 and up-and-coming mid-major (i.e. Utah, UCF, Cincy)
    4. The rest.

    -------

    Yeah I agree with that hierarchy, if we're talking about fanbase and following. Not if that's based on performance.

    Utah

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 14, 2014 1:00 p.m.

    Taysom4Heisman
    Heber City, UT
    @MyPerspective

    I figured you wouldn't count my source as credible even though it's by a professional writer.

    Lafe Peavler is a writer whose job is to provide arguments backed by fact. If he only wrote biased BYU comments, he would be fired. It's his responsibility to provide credible information.

    ---------

    You're putting too much stock into this writer's words. Yes, he is a journalist, which is above the casual blogger. But the piece you refer to (the myth buster slideshow) is a mix of known facts and speculation.

    Therefore, you cannot take it as 100 percent fact, like you are.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 14, 2014 1:09 p.m.

    Taysom4Heisman
    Heber City, UT

    you provided no proof that Sunday wasn't an issue. You dodged the topic with random quotes.

    ----------

    Those were not random quotes in the least. They were quotes from league officials specifying the reasons Utah was invited.

    If BYU was excluded primarily because of Sunday play, then those officials would not have brought up the criteria they did -- because they wouldn't have mattered.

    In other words, if Sunday play kept BYU out, the officials would have cited other reasons for Utah's invite -- like our BCS victories or recent success on the field. The fact that they mentioned academics and standing means they were looking for those accomplishments in potential candidates. And BYU didn't have them.

    I will admit that Sunday play may have been a very MILD factor in the decision not to invite BYU... but it was a very small consideration. If P10 really wanted BYU they would have invited them and worked around the Sunday stipulation. If Utah had a No Sunday Play policy, the P10 still would've invited them -- because we met the overall criteria of what they were looking for.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    July 14, 2014 1:33 p.m.

    Hey if you hurry, you can still get tickets for $7 for byU's senior day game!

    Independence is indeed lucrative.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 14, 2014 1:40 p.m.

    Wiscougarfan
    River Falls, WI

    RE: Tomahawk Red

    "So what's your point?..."

    Thank you for posting a reasonable account of both BYU and Utah's standing in the national picture. My post was in response to Uteology who was indeed insinuating that Utah has more national esteem than BYU.

    ---------------

    I wasn't the one claiming BYU brings more to the table than Utah and Colorado. That's your fanbase, including Dick Harmon when he went on ESPN and nearly cried when Utah was invited.

    The national picture is pretty much:

    1. SEC, PAC-12, Big 12, Big 10, ACC, Notre Dame
    2. AAC, MWC, CUSA, BYU

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    July 14, 2014 1:59 p.m.

    @SammyG

    "I wonder when the Utes and fans will finally start acting like a real P5 football team and fanbase.

    They've gotten worse since the MWC days.

    They sure seem conflicted about who they are and how they play."

    Sammy this may or not be true but either way the cougies have lost to the utes every year you're reffering to so what does that say about them recently following MWC days?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 14, 2014 2:16 p.m.

    I think there's a real advantage to the regular season scheduling. BYU has done a nice job of putting together their schedule(s). The down side of Independence is the bowl choices, or lack there of. Tied into a low, low tier bowl game, in Miami, before the season ever starts has to be a real downer. Win 6, 8 or 11 and that's the destination vs the American Conference Champ.

    As far as BYU not getting a Power 5 conference invite, others have nailed it. No one is going to accept a team who comes into the league, not willing to comprimise TV rights. Utah had to make concessions when they joined the PAC 12. Plus no one wants a team dictating what days they will and will not play on.

  • greatbam22 andrews afb, MD
    July 14, 2014 2:38 p.m.

    @ Red Tomahawk

    "most BYU fans"

    Stereotype alert! Maybe most BYU fans that frequent comment boards or sports forums. I personally love independence.

    I don't need to travel to mecca..I mean Utah to watch a game live.

    I hope they stay Independent. I think some fans are obsessed about National Championships (Probably BYU fans in Utah that have to deal with their Ute neighbors).

    I would bet that a huge amount / most BYU fans don't even live in Utah. If that is the case why wouldn't they be happy about BYU being Independent? They have a much greater probability watching BYU live near where they live with BYU being Independent.

    I can't wait till their game in Maryland in 2 years vs. WVU. I am already planning on going to that game.

  • Y-Ask-Y? Provo, UT
    July 14, 2014 2:50 p.m.

    For those telling me I'm not a "true fan", I return the accusation:

    Does a "true fan" settle for irrelevance? Does a "true fan" support and appreciate error, mediocrity, and failure"?

    Or does a true fan hope for the best for his team, and aspire to success and achievement in a relevant and legitimate context?

    I say YOU people are not the true fans.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 14, 2014 3:46 p.m.

    @y ask y

    A real fan doesn't whine incessantly, constantly cut his supposed team down and generally behave in the manner you do. I don't believe for a minute that you are a BYU fan.

    Being critical of the way things are being done or the results are one thing but I've read enough of your posts to know that isn't all you do. You consistently seek to cast the school and program in a bad light and that is what utah "fans" do, not BYU fans.

    So prove yourself if you are really a BYU fan, say something good just one time about BYU and its program, something optimistic and something that convinces us you actually are a fan and not another utah troll. You don't have to be unrealistic or even be happy about how things currently are, I know I'm not satisfied at all currently, but at least say something good about the place occasionally. Outside of that no one believes a word of what you say.

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 14, 2014 4:02 p.m.

    @Tomahawk Red

    "But the piece you refer to (the myth buster slideshow) is a mix of known facts and speculation.

    Therefore, you cannot take it as 100 percent fact, like you are."

    That is a very reasonable comment. I agree, except for the part about me taking it as 100% fact. I will admit I may have come across like I believed too strongly in it, but I too understand that it is primarily speculation.

    However, there is a whole lot more speculation that Sunday play left BYU out of the PAC-12 than this one article. Sunday play being an issue has been mentioned several times by several people, including very well educated ones like Greg Wrubell. Generally, when he says a certain thing is going on, he has more of an inside scoop than most others.

    I have heard zero speculation that sunday play was not an issue except from red-goggled ute fans.

    So yes, it is not 100% fact, and I apologize if I gave that vibe. But there is still some pretty strong evidence to suggest it is true.

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 14, 2014 4:16 p.m.

    @Tomahawk Red

    "Those were not random quotes in the least. They were quotes from league officials specifying the reasons Utah was invited."

    Yes, they were random quotes. The topic I was discussing with this ute fan was whether Sunday play factored in to BYU's not being invited into the Pac-12.

    Yes, they were indeed quotes from league officials specifying the reasons utah was invited. And not a single one said "they were willing to play on sundays" or anything of that matter.

    They referred to utah's academics, which is great. utah's academics are very well respected. But they have nothing to do with Sunday play. In fact, BYU's academics standards are much higher and a degree from BYU (outside of the medical field) is generally higher respected than one from utah. Again, I'm not trying to slam utah as a school. They do a great job. But their academic prestige is certainly not the reason they were chosen over BYU.

    It may have been the type of academics (research institution) but not the quality of education that is better than BYU's.

  • Taysom4Heisman Heber City, UT
    July 14, 2014 4:24 p.m.

    @Vegas Ute

    "Hey if you hurry, you can still get tickets for $7 for byU's senior day game!

    Independence is indeed lucrative."

    I'm gonna take a guess that you are looking at the seats way at the top in the corner.

    Because even against Savannah State, we will get around 50,000 to 55,000 fans (by the way, more than utah will get even when Oregon comes to town), so most of the available seats are in the corners.

    So $7 is nowhere near the average ticket price even against Savannah State.

    P.S. what is the price for corner seats for the Idaho State game?

    I don't know the answer but I bet it's either less than $7 or not a whole lot more.

    This has nothing to do with how lucrative independence is. It has to do with corner seats against an FCS team.

  • BlueNtheFace Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    July 14, 2014 5:32 p.m.

    Hey angry Ute fans. Could it be that BYU's independence is the best option for right now? Could it be that the only thing better would be a P5 invite/match?

    There's nothing in this article that contradicts the players enjoying traveling to various football venues with them knowing that being in a P5 conference would be the ultimate goal for the program.

    Quit trying to build arguments where there are none. Sheesh.

    Go Indy (for now) BYU!

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    July 14, 2014 9:51 p.m.

    It's frustrating when we critique the management of our program and other fans assume we are Utes. We are not all blind.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 15, 2014 12:02 a.m.

    @ Taysom4Heisman

    Utah sets single game ticket prices based on demand. Utah had a 99% season renewal rate, and ISU is the season opener so it's my guess that the minimum face value for a ticket to that game will be between $30-$45 dollars.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 15, 2014 8:43 a.m.

    2fer

    Utah isn't capable of filling a 65,000 seat stadium, which is why RES remains at 45,000 THIRTY years after LES was expanded.

    If you factor in the several thousand tickets Utah gives away to students, Utah's average ticket price is significantly lower than BYU's.

    btw, BYU students also pay student fees, but they also pay $110 to $180 for a ROC (formerly All Sports) Pass to attend BYU football games.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 15, 2014 8:50 a.m.

    Razzle2

    There's nothing wrong with critiquing the program, but when that critique is incessantly negative about everything and everybody associated with the program, it does raise a red flag about where your true allegiance lies.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    July 15, 2014 3:01 p.m.

    I swear reading these comments is like watching the 104th ranked middle weight take on the 106th ranked middle weight for UFC bragging rights. Entertaining? Yes. Relevant? No.

    Independence or PAC12 irrelevance is still irrelevance. No one in the PAC12 cares about Utah, and no one outside Utah or the lds community cares about BYU...deal with it (and I'm a BYU fan who is just realistic). I'm heading to the SEC boards...I'll rejoin when the season starts and there isn't the same pointless drivel and "my dad can beat up your dad" nonsense. Seriously, I'm so over this rivalry.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 15, 2014 4:38 p.m.

    @ Uteanymous

    I disagree. I believe there are a few games this year where Utah would pull 65,000 if RES had the capacity. I don't know what you mean by give away, but during my time at the U, a MUSS ticket rose in price from $25 dollars to $50 dollars. if you have a non-student guest, they pay the full season ticket price.

    BTW, BYU students pay a heavily subsidized tuition, so i don't feel bad if they have to pay a little extra for an all sports pass.

  • UoU 1991 Park City, UT
    July 15, 2014 6:17 p.m.

    2fer

    The discussion wasn't about what students could afford, or whether you feel bad for students having to pay so much for school, the discussion was about the average price of football tickets at RES and LES.

    Thanks for admitting that Utah students pay less half what BYU students pay for football tickets.

    BYU ROC pass = $110 to $180
    Utah MUSS pass = $50

    -----------

    btw, you left out one huge factor in the cost of an education at BYU and Utah, housing.

    90% of Utah students are from Utah and the majority commute to school.
    66% of BYU students are from out of state and have to pay room and board.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 15, 2014 6:22 p.m.

    2fer

    The simple truth is if the Utah administration thought they could fill a 65,000 seat stadium on a regular basis, RES would have been expanded a long time ago.

    Chris Hill is justifiably reluctant to risk spending millions to expand RES, only to see RES become like the HC was for many years, a vast sea of empty red chairs.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2014 12:23 a.m.

    @ Uteanymous

    I don't disagree with anything you said. Until very recently, 45,000 was perfect for Utah. Interest has definitely increased since joining the PAC-12, and I think a stadium between 55-58K would be perfect. I don't think Chris Hill is reluctant to expand RES. I just think he recognized that investing in Utah's other athletic programs and facilities was more pressing that expanding the stadium.