The power 5 already have their own litmus tests for whether byu is worthy of
being in a power 5 conference. All 5 agree.
Hey Chris BYU Expert, how did Steele rate the U? Didn't
check? Yeah, I would try to avoid that depressing news as well if I were U...
Those cougars will never play with the big boys! The Utes will always be ranked
ahead of them. Utah is gonna win the rose bowl this year!
And the first person to comment on a BYU football article is...Chris
B. No way. What are the odds?I am just glad that someone
who is doing some serious research is neutral and sees BYU for what it is. I do believe BYU would get a few higher caliber players if they were in
a power 5 conference, but as they are, they have done more without a conference
than many do with a power 5 conference.
It appears the experts who rank college football teams also have their litmus
test and YES, once again the Utes are left wanting...
"The only downside of the Steele analysis is that BYU would be in the middle
of the pack in nearly all of the power 5 conferences."Y fans are
not gonna like this. They all claim that BYU would tear up the Big 12 if they
got invited.In other words, they haven't learned a thing from
Utah and TCU.
The power 5 conferences have one criteria: Money.With that conflict of
interest it is doubtful that they would have an impartial objective opinion.
They simply do not want to add anyone to their private little club.You have to remember that the BCS was created as a reaction to BYU winning the
national championship. They wanted to insure that no "upstart" ever did
that again.Funny how all the Utes protested when the U did not get
the national championship when they were arguably the best team in the country.
Now they crow when the same "impartial" voices dis on BYU.
How can this can't be? Because byu isn't prestegous like we are and
shouldn't be recognized better than us. This isn't right. Doesn't
steele no better?Go Utes!
I guess the PAC 10 litmus test wasn't working when they decided to add Utah
and Colorado to the league. I laugh every time I think about how the original
PAC members must be kicking themselves for being strapped with two programs that
bring nothing to the table.
the rock"They simply do not want to add anyone to their private
little club."Except for Utah and TCU, which they did want to
add. They just don't want to add byU
It is so fantastic. Almost everyday BYU is in the talking points of the whole
national media. Good time to be a Cougar Fan! Can't wait for the season to
@Chris BRemember this classic quote from a Ute article last week? Oh
the irony. Chris B Salt Lake City, UTWhy are
WCC fans even on this article?9:14 a.m. June 25, 2014
"If the Power 5 conferences were to use Phil Steele's ratings as a
litmus test to determine if BYU would qualify as a competitive team in their
sphere, the answer would be a resounding yes."As usual, are
friends from the hill are more concerned about where Phil ranks BYU in P5
competitiveness, than they are with where he ranks the Utes in PAC 12
@Tomahawk RedWho ever said BYU would "tear up" the B12?
sources?There're many people who believe BYU would be
competative (ask OU or UT), but "tear up"? I don't think that was
ever said.God bless Tomahawk Red.
@IrreleventI promise tomahawk red cannot produce one single
verifiable quote from a single BYU fan making that claim.I on the
otherhand can, and have, provided numerous quotes from utah "fans"
claiming utah was going to win their division, win the league championship, play
in the rose bowl, win the rose bowl, and even go undefeated, before their first
two season in the pac12.lol
"Phil Steele's ratings as a litmus test to determine if BYU would
qualify as a competitive team"Reminds me of the (formerly) annual
predictions of how BYU would do against Utah -- "On paper", we should
beat them this year!On field results paint a different picture. On
field, BYU would finish behind Utah in the PAC12 and behind TCU in the Big12.
"In other words, they haven't learned a thing from Utah and
TCU."Two schools byu can never beat.
I hate to say this, but as an avid BYU football fan, I disagree that 9-3 or even
10-2 will be a good season for BYU. For the last few years the Cougars have
been terrible against Power 5 teams. Only at 11-1 can BYU claim a good year, in
my opinion, and it really needs to be 13-0 (yes, they must win their bowl game).
Last year's performance in the bowl game against Washington stunk. Bronco
only used half the days to prepare and the team absolutely looked like it. The
game was an embarrassment. This team has the talent to go 13-0. I hope they
get the necessary coaching.
@ BigtimecougUtah and CU bring the ability to have a CCG. I doubt
anybody is kicking themselves with the 20+ million dollars the conf. generates
for it's own members. Also, FWIW since Utah joined the PAC-12 it has gone
9-1 (including a bowl win) against non-conference foes. That makes the
conference look stronger, not weaker.
Little Pete, there is a greater chance that Kyle Whittingham will be fired at
the end of the season for again missing going to a bowl game than the chance
that Utah will win the Rose Bowl. Since he is a former BYU Cougar, I actually
like KW and hope he does well, but since his great undefeated season, Utah has
really gone down hill. Now, that is not to say that BYU has done anything
special because they lost to Utah four years in a row. Both teams need to win a
lot of games. That, and only that, will solve the problems of both teams. We
will know a lot more at the end of this coming season.
I really don't understand some of the smack that some BYU fans run, when no
matter how Utah did in the PAC 12, or whether or not they went to a bowl game,
or however else you can spin it so the Utes aren't good, BYU still
can't beat them.
This is BYU's big chance to go undefeated again. Texas will
likely be the best team they face, but ESPN believes that the Cougars will be
better than every other team they face in 2014.BYU likely won't
have this good of an opportunity in the foreseeable future. They had better
make the most of it.
Utah'95FPO, AEFair comment, I appreciate you stopping
short of the "this schedule stinks" drivel we are accustomed to
hearing.I like most BYU fans beleive every game on our schedule is
winnable, but we appreciate that Texas, Houston, Central Florida, Boise and Utah
State will all be significant challenges.Shoot, most of us cougar
fans will not sleep well till we prove we can beat Virginia. Not dissin'
the team, just admiting that there some things that have left a bad taste in our
mouth.Nothing that a whole lotta winnin' won't fix!
Thank you Steele but I rather see the live game than all the talk stuff.
I'll believe it when we can play ball on the Offense side of BYU including
at the Blue Zone, PLEASE!
@Tomahawk RedI don't know what BYU fans you have been talking
to, but most of them, including myself, would quickly admit that BYU would not
win the Big 12. In my opinion, we would be a border-line bowl team just like the
utes.I think BYU would have a better shot at getting to a bowl
simply because the Pac-12 is deeper. Both conferences present 2 or 3 games that
are very tough for BYU and utah. The difference is that the Pac-12 only provides
the utes with 2 games that should be easy wins in Wash. St. and Colorado.
Somehow they don't easily win those games which is beyond me.In
the Big 12 I think there are more easy wins with Kansas, Iowa St, West Virginia,
and even TCU. I'm not saying BYU would 100% absolutely beat those teams,
but they would certainly be favored.
"The only downside of the Steele analysis is that BYU would be in the middle
of the pack in nearly all of the power 5 conference." -- Ken DriggsWhat? BYU would be in the middle of the pack in nearly all of the power 5
conferences? How so? In which P5 conference would BYU
be allowed to play 3 P5 teams, 7 mid-majors, and 2 D2 teams?"If
the Power 5 conferences were to use Phil Steele's ratings as a litmus test
to determine if BYU would qualify as a competitive team in their sphere, the
answer would be a resounding yes." -- Ken DriggsThe P5 teams
don't need Steele's ratings as a litmus test to see how competitive
BYU would be in a P5 league. They can just look at...* BYU's
awful BCS resume* Or that BYU went 2-5 vs P5 teams last year* Or
that BYU has a losing record vs P5 without the grind of a P5 schedule (Utah and
TCU had the top 2 winning percentage as mid-majors in the BCS era)* Or the
fact that BYU hasn't beat a final ranked P5 team since 1996
@ tomahawk redWill you please back up your claim that all Y fans
claim BYU would tear up the big12? Yea, I thought so, another
frantic and emotional, not to mention, intentional misrepresentation of the
facts. Oh, excuse me, frantic and emotional is Navel Vet's catch phrase.
With the easy schedule BYU plays this year, you don't need an expert to say
they will go 9-3 or 10-2.
@2ferI laughed pretty hard at the CCG thing. Collectible card games
are the most common use for CCG. So is Utah more like Pokemon or Magic the
Gathering? That is easy--Pokemon. Utah is like Jigglypuff. They are good
enough to be added but squishy enough that they won't consistently finish
ahead of the good old boys.Utah will never be able to complete
consistently for its division let alone the league title. It is nearly
impossible for them to out recruit USC and UCLA. Arizona and Arizona State
should almost always get better recruits than Utah as well. Its just reality.
Utah will get the third tier players of the league.Where does this
leave BYU? BYU is in a much better position to succeed than Utah is because
they control the schedule. Both teams are getting about the same tier of
recruits, but one team has the ability to balance when they play the hardest
games. BYU will likely finish above the Utes in the final rankings for the
If you're hated than your're doing something right, and judging by
these comments. BYU is doing something right.
I think BYU is on par with B5 teams like Utah, Georgia Tech, Boston College,
Arizona, Arizona State, better than teams like Virginia, Rutgers, Purdue, and
Washington State, and not as good as teams like Alabama, Ohio State, Oregon, and
Oklahoma. Their recent record against the middle-of-the-pack teams is reasonable
(except for Utah), they are good against the bottom of the pack teams, and
haven't played enough games against the top-tier B5 teams to say one way or
another. That sounds like a middle-of-the-pack B5 team to me.
And the preseason hype begins. Gotta love Cougar nation...smh
Then why do they continue to get schlacked by Utah every year?
If the experts believe that BYU would be in the middle of the pack of any of the
P5 conferences, wouldn't that be better than the cellar dwelling Utes? I
would much rather end up ranked higher, on paper or in the minds of the experts,
than sitting dead last and end up trying to brag to others about how great and
powerful u are. Rankings are rankings and year in and year out BYU is
ranked higher than u.
With a losing record.The utes have made more teams qualify for bowl
games.Every conference has a need for doormats.
I love when the Ute Football Nation comes out to talk about BYU football. It
just goes to show every football Fan discussion leads back to BYU..... Rise and
DuckPlease produce those "numerous" quotes from U fans.
I'll wait. Was this written by captain obvious? The rest of the
schedule has the likes of UNLV, Mid Tenn, Virginia, Uconn and Savannah State!
Not to mention Boise,Nevada and Cal are not what they once were. The
cougs better go 9-2!
EDDIE: "Rankings are Rankings, year in and year out byu is
ranked higher than Utah"Pray tell, how does 3 of 11, 0 of 4 and
54-10 grab you!!!...(:(
Ya buts,How does being ranked lower than a team you beat grab you?
Just goes to show u that one game does not make a season. That would be like
comparing the trophy case with BYU and u. While u may have a couple of little
trophies in your shoebox, BYU has a case full of hardware that u can only dream
of! Let's compare conference championships! Let' s not just look at a
couple of things, let's look at the whole history. U can not do that
without being truthful that BYU just leaves u in the dust.
Tomahawk Red"Y fans are not gonna like this. They all claim that
BYU would tear up the Big 12 if they got invited."I've
never heard or seen any BYU fan make the claim that you falsely assert.Go Myles Jack & UCLA!!
EDDIE:I have to correct my last statement, It should read 3 of 12
@yabutsThe answer is obvious:Utah is ONE-DIMENSIONAL. Sure they
seem to have the Cougars number, but they haven't been all that good
against the rest of their schedule.
Everybody know that there is a fundamental difference between BYU and Utah. BYU
is consistently above average where they rarely beat the ranked teams, but then
they beat who they are supposed to beat. Utah is the exact opposite and know
how to rise for the big games, whether it is the Sugar Bowl or games against
BYU. Problem with Utah is that they then turn around and lose to people that
they have no business losing to.You can read comment on here all day
and night where fans hand pick the stats that favors their teams. It could be
the big games that Utah has won or BYU's history. In the end we are all
fans of our own teams and it we just accept that it is a bunch of games that are
played for entertainment purposes with little lasting value.
There is no better preseason team in the nation than byu.. then the season
Uncle festisAnd there is no better team in the nation than Utah
after the BYU game. Then the rest of the season settles in.
It is a hot summer night. The Ute posters have read the Phil Steele article
about those dreaded cougars and no mention of their beloved Utes. Why, why is
this happening? Can't Steele see? The Cougars are only a mid major. Not big
five worthy. They collectively reflect for a moment on this grave injustice.
These Utah fans also come collectively to the conclusion that they must let
others know about this but how? The Deseret News will surely have a reaction to
this. Cougar fans flock to these articles. Utah posters will in mass post
something clever. That will teach Steele and It will make everything better.
They wait patiently and behold the article appears at 10:25. Beads of sweat
hit various keyboards as rounds are fire off in open rebuttle. Sleep comes easy
to the Ute posters later that night as dreams of Rose Bowls and National
Championships dance through their collective heads. All is right now.... All is
I Bleed BlueLas Vegas, NVIt is a hot summer night. The Ute
posters have read the Phil Steele article about those dreaded cougars and no
mention of their beloved Utes. ------------Dreaded
Cougars? Really? Utah fears BYU as much we fear Idaho State.
@utehacountyuteI've already done it, numerous times. Use your
ExecutorIohWest Jordan, UTBYU is consistently above average
where they rarely beat the ranked teams, but then they beat who they are
supposed to beat.-----------Finally, a BYU fan who
readily admits that BYU should never beat Utah.Thanks for that.
@ Steven S JarvisThis is a college football forum. CCG = conference
championship game, and you won't find one person here who disagrees with
that. BYU is in a much better position to rack up a bunch of
meaningless wins over mediocre (at best) competition. This year it doesn't
matter if they win 6 or 11 games. They will be bowling in a lower tier bowl
against another mid-major from the AAC. I would argue that Utah is in a better
position to succeed because of the post season access the PAC-12 has. If Utah
wins 7 or 8 games they will land in a more prestigious bowl game than BYU, even
if the Cougs win 11 games.
byu has never been tested by a big boy schedule, which literally entails a
weekly grind. This is always conveniently omitted by tds fans in this
@Uncle festis"There is no better preseason team in the nation
than byu.. then the season starts."You must be reading a
different Phil Steele magazine than I am, because BYU is usually ranked in the
30's or low 40's every preseason.And they usually finish
ranked in the 30's or low 40's at the end of every season.The unrealistic preseason hype comes from blue-goggled BYU fans, but every
team has those types of fans.If you don't believe me, check out
all the ute fans who are convinced that utah will make a bowl game and contend
for a Pac-12 title this year. They make excuses of injuries and first-year
offensive coordinators, but they fail to realize that injuries will always
happen in football and they have another first-year coordinator.
I blows my mind that Utah fans post on Cougar stories. I can't even tell
you the last time I read a story about Utah. I am not a fan of their team and
unless I know a player personally, I don't read their articles. To me, the
situation is so clear.1)Utah is in a P5 conference, and very
fortunate to be. They weren't the PAC12s first, second or even third choice
(UT and OK, then maybe CO). The PAC wanted a Conference Champ Game, according to
the NCAA you must have 12 teams to have a game. After it was apparent that UT
and OK were not coming, they needed to look for the best options available. Utah
was close by and had some recent success, and then CO. The ADs from
USC, UCLA, Stanford and Oregon wouldn't have approved if they thought CO
and Utah would win and be formidable opponents. They want to maintain their
National standing and compete not for a conference championship but national.
Utah provided a 12th team, and one that would not win on a constant basis. Hope
you guys like the cellar...
Preseason champs again.Sweet.
EDDIE:Eddie, we are talking football. Eddie, you stated, "Lets
look a the whole history". It seems people like you put a great deal of
credence on things that have happened in the past.OK, lets look at
the WHOLE history. Since the first game held on Oct. 14th, 1921,
Utah is (54-31-4)Average score: Utah 24 - BYU 18.7How
much more "whole" can you get.
@Darren RoweThe unrealistic preseason hype comes from blue-goggled
BYU fans, but every team has those types of fans.If you don't
believe me, check out all the ute fans who are convinced that utah will make a
bowl game and contend for a Pac-12 title this year. -------------True, but the difference is we have one Ute fan (Sorry Chris) vs. Ducky,
worf, Bluto, Veritas (+20 user names), I Bleed Blue, Y Grad/Why Dad, etc.Plus, 1,000 DN articles. Including this one, which claims BYU would be
competitive in a P5 league when reality shows otherwise.
I agree with GilmerTexasCougarl I also think the Cougs will need to have like
an 11-1 season to gain the kind of momentum and recognition they would like.
Short of having a really good season this year I think the seat Broncho is on
will starting getting kind of warm. That said, the seat Kyle Whitingham is on
will be red hot if the Utes go the another couch potatoe bowl (which is likely)
- Whit will be toast if that happens.
Oh I love it - the local football hype has begun. That means college football
cannot be far off which is great news!. We'll have to wait and see how it
all shakes out. Will BYU have the kind of exciting season we anticipate and go
bowling again as expected? Will the Utes be able to beat anyone in the PAC12?
Will Coach Whit survive another couch potato bowl? You gotta love the intrigue
"Plus, 1,000 DN articles. Including this one, which claims BYU would be
competitive in a P5 league when reality shows otherwise."byu had
all off-season to prepare for UVA and lost....They had bye-weeks preceding
U/Wisc, both of which were coming off of grueling conference games, and lost
both....They had Idaho State preceding ND and lost....Finally, they had weeks to
prepare for a UW team minus all of their primary coaches and lost....byu would
finish at the bottom of any P5 conference's standings, hands-down.It literally couldn't be any more palpable how they'd fare w/in a P5
conference....Look no further than The U's/TCU's struggles, 2 schools
byu can never beat.
AZUTE1Mesa, AZ"It literally couldn't be any more
palpable how they'd fare w/in a P5 conference....Look no further than The
U's/TCU's struggles, 2 schools byu can never beat."So,
AZUTE1, BYU has NEVER beaten TCU or Utah in football? Can I mark that bit of
revisionist history down? Or would you kindly correct your misleading
yabutsSince BYU and Utah joined a conference that someone besides
your great grandfather remembers:BYU 29-23-0Average
Score: BYU 27.6, Utah 23.4AP Top 25 Finishes: BYU 17, Utah 511+ Win Seasons: BYU 11, Utah 2Conference Championships: BYU
23, Utah 6Bowl Games: BYU 32, Utah 16National
Championships: BYU 1, Utah 0Heisman Trophies: BYU 1, Utah 0National Individual Awards: BYU 15, Utah 0National Hall of Fame
Players: BYU 6, Utah 0
AZUTE1"BYU had all off-season to prepare for UVA and
lost...."LOL at your deluded misleading spin. Anybody who knows
anything about college football knows that the first game is the most difficult
to prepare for; that's why Utah usually starts its season playing a I-AA
school like Weber State, at home, to iron out the kinks before the Utes play a
more difficult opponent.On the other hand, what was Utah's
excuse for losing to 10-loss Colorado at home, when U had an entire season to
prepare?Bronco is 9-9(50%) versus PAC 12 teams.Kyle is
13-21(38%).Bronco never lost to fellow conference bottom dwellers
like NM, Wyo, CSU and UNLV.Kyle lost to all of them, including getting
shut out by 10-loss UNLV 0-27.Bronco won two MWC championships.Kyle only won one.Bronco had three 11+ win, Top 15 seasons.Kyle only had one.BYU's consistency in seldom losing to bad
teams, especially conference bottom dwellers, explains why BYU has won 23
WAC/MWC championships.On the other hand, Utah's inconsistency
in beating conference teams they're supposed to beat explains why Utah only
won 6 WAC/MWC championship, and why the Utah aren't competitive in the PAC.
@phantombladeSalt Lake City, UtahAZUTE1"BYU
had all off-season to prepare for UVA and lost...."LOL at your
deluded misleading spin. Anybody who knows anything about college football knows
that the first game is the most difficult to prepare for; ------------LOL... That was 2-10 Virigia's ONLY D1 win of the
season. It shouldn't be that difficult for a legacy program down south.BYU was 2-5 vs P5 teams last year (Utah 2-7).BYU was 6-0 vs
mid-majors last year (Utah 3-0)."On the other hand, what was
Utah's excuse for losing to 10-loss Colorado at home, when U had an entire
season to prepare?"How about injuries to our starting QB and RB.
Beat's your excuse: "rain".FYI we had one
week to prepare, just like you do with most other games without a buy week.
Old But Not StupidMoorpark, CAAZUTE1Mesa, AZ"It literally couldn't be any more palpable how they'd fare w/in
a P5 conference....Look no further than The U's/TCU's struggles, 2
schools byu can never beat."So, AZUTE1, BYU has NEVER beaten TCU
or Utah in football? Can I mark that bit of revisionist history down? Or would
you kindly correct your misleading statement?-------------Here let me help him...BYU has lost 8 straight (0-8) vs
Utah/TCU.Is that clear enough for you?
Uteology & AZUTE:We all had to listen to Utah fans like yourselves
talk about how competitive you'd be in the PAC12. Now we listen to all the
revisionism about how you all "knew that it would take time to build a
winning program" in the PAC12. With that in mind, please forgive us if what
you predict concerning BYU falls on deaf ears and holds no water. BYU is 5-1 against the two flagship programs in the Big 12, so they don't
agree with how U believe BYU would fair in their league (FYI TCU didn't
fair well against them before they were in the Big 12, unlike BYU). BYU has
beaten Washington half the time they've played them, so they wouldn't
agree that BYU would be the same cupcake to them that U are (no wins against the
Huskies). I'm sure BYU would also struggle in a P5 league as
Utah and TCU have, but BYU has a niche that neither TCU or Utah has. If BYU were
in a P5 league they would most likely get nearly every highly regarded Mormon
player instead of them going to other schools because of conference.
Y grad/Y Dad You're certainly right about one thing, playing against
BYU sure does make Utah look good.
"LOL... That was 2-10 Virigia's ONLY D1 win of the season. It
shouldn't be that difficult for a legacy program down south."UVA was hands-down the single worst L the state's seen in
memory....'11 CU, for instance, had 3 Ws over FBS schools.bm is
2-5 against The PAC-12, which includes getting completely blown-out 3 times, 2
times at home and 1 time on a neutral-field, and going 0-3 against The U....All
7 games were played at random, not in back to back fashion....Imagine byu having
to play all of these schools in a weekly grind....They'd get destroyed.
"True, but the difference is we have one Ute fan (Sorry Chris) vs. Ducky,
worf, Bluto, Veritas (+20 user names), I Bleed Blue, Y Grad/Why Dad, etc.Plus, 1,000 DN articles. Including this one, which claims BYU would be
competitive in a P5 league when reality shows otherwise."Uteology,Is this a list of BYU fans saying BYU would be
competitive in a P5 conference? Or is it about claiming BYU would dominate a P5
conference? There is a huge difference. Besides, it is not unreasonable to think
that BYU would be competitive in a P5 conference; Steele apparently is under the
impression as well (I guess you are going to say Phil Steele wears blue goggles
BYU needs all the hype help it can get. Phil Steele is doing them a favor. On
the field they generate no hype outside of Provo. And don't help themselves
when traditionally losing to ranked teams on ESPN. How are those TV ratings
working for ya? Not good.Someone said it earlier. BYU has never
played a real schedule. Playing Big 12 opponents every week would not be easy.
Even against schools like Iowa St. & W. Virginia.
AZUTE:"UVA was hands-down the single worst L the state's seen in
memory..."Nope, that honor goes to Utah's 27-0 beat down at
the hands of perennial power UNLV...once again, a ute fan with selective memory.
BYU has never had such a humiliating loss. Losing by 3 on the road to UVA is a
far cry from being "brutally curb stomped" (to use your vernacular) by 4
TDs to one of the worst teams in the history of the MWC.
@CougsndawgsI can't speak for AZUTE but I never said Utah was
going to be competitive. I have said over and over that it takes time to build
PAC-12 depth. That is exactly what we've been doing.@Riverton
CougarCan you show me where Phil Steel said BYU would be competitive
in a P5 conference? It was only the author of this article. Who
apparently took Steel's ranking to prove BYU's competitiveness against
P5 teams.* Not the fact that BYU went 2-5 vs P5 teams last year* Nor that in the BCS era BYU has a losing record vs P5 teams* Or that
Utah and TCU, two teams that BYU can't compete against today, those two
teams have better talent than BYU yet have struggled to compete at the next
@CougsndawgsBYU is 2-1 vs OU and Texas in the BCS era. Edwards
record is meaningless to how competitive BYU would be today.Since
2003, TCU lost to top 10 ranked Oklahoma, Texas, and Baylor as a mid-major and
beat unranked Oklahoma, Baylor, Texas Tech. The last time BYU beat
ANY ranked P5 team was in 1996. Care to revise your statement?2007
UNLV had ONE more win over a D1 team than 2013 Virgina. The better team? UNLV
by one game.
Uteology:Why revise my statement? BYU is 5-1 against Texas and
Oklahoma...no revision necessary, those are the facts whether you like them or
not. BYU is 4-5 against Washington while U are 0-8. Those are facts that
don't require any revision. Whether the teams were ranked or not has
nothing to do with my statement. 5-1, 4-5...facts.As for 2007
UNLV...no they weren't better than UVA and played in a weaker conference.
Even if they were a fraction better than UVA (look at UVA's recruits and
unlv's and then try and tell me who's better) that still doesn't
explain a 4 TD loss in perfect weather, in a regional game...compared to BYUs 3
point loss because of a late TO in inclement weather on the east coast. Nice
try, but Utah's embarrassing blow out loss to the Rebels will always take
the cake on "worst loss in recent memory".
Uteology:Just FYI, since 2003 TCU is 1-3 vs OU & 1-2 vs Texas. Before
joining the Big 12 they were 1-3 combined against those schools. Not even close
to BYUs success against those programs since 2003. Again just because BYU
struggled recently against some pretty good TCU teams doesn't mean TCU is
the better program now or that TCU's struggles now are indicative that BYU
couldn't compete (there's a whole lot of other issues facing TCU than
just upgrade in SOS). Also remember that since 2009 TCU has been dominant over
both BYU and Utah with Utah getting the biggest beating in either series in
2010, a 40 point TCU blowout (the year before they were also embarrassed by 27).
If I were a ute fan I wouldn't bring up TCU at all in recent history to
prove any piont in Utah's favor. Even the 2008 game at RES was a nail biter
and just as easily could have been a TCU victory.
@Uteology"The last time BYU beat ANY ranked P5 team was in
1996."Goodness. This can't be true, can it?
@ CougarColby"They weren't the PAC12s first, second or even
third choice (UT and OK, then maybe CO).....After it was apparent that UT and OK
were not coming, they needed to look for the best options available." Followed by:"The ADs from USC, UCLA, Stanford and Oregon
wouldn't have approved if they thought CO and Utah would win and be
formidable opponents."You're arguing against yourself.
Uncle festisPasadena, CA"Y grad/Y Dad You're
certainly right about one thing, playing against BYU sure does make Utah look
good."Yep, playing Utah makes BYU look worse than we really are.
Playing BYU makes Utah look better than they really are.
AZUTE1"byu has never been tested by a big boy schedule, which
literally entails a weekly grind. This is always conveniently omitted by tds
fans in this discussion."The Utes most often used excuse... we
play a 'big boy' schedule, weekly grind. OR... we have an
injured QB.OR... we have another injured QBOR... we don't have
a reserve QBOR... we have a new OCUteology"I can't speak for AZUTE but I never said Utah was going to be
competitive. I have said over and over that it takes time to build PAC-12 depth.
That is exactly what we've been doing."Which explains...
4-5, 3-6, and 2-7 and two consecutive bowl-less seasons. (and another to
come)And the endless criticisms about BYU's weak schedule.And the Utes open up with Idaho State this year... awesome!
sammyg--"The Utes most often used excuse... we play a 'big
boy' schedule, weekly grind."Never an excuse, but rather a
fact used in response to byu fan's finger-pointing....As a legitimate
competitor, I inherently want the toughest possible schedule w/its inherent
greatest potential reward....Therefore, I wouldn't trade our tough annual
schedule for anything....I absolutely love it, even during our transition.byu would be dead-last in The PAC-12....See The U's/TCU's
struggles in transitioning, 2 schools byu can never beat.
@CougsndawgsWhile you're still blaming the "rain" for
the loss to Virgina, Kyle has made up for it since then finishing 45-6 as a
mid-major including rolling over your Quest team in 2008 to thump #6 Bama.Today, the fact is BYU doesn't have the talent to compete in a P5
league. Going 2-5 last year vs P5 teams is a great indication of that, not your
5-1 record vs Texas/OU over the last 40 years. Cougsndawgs:
"Just FYI, since 2003 TCU is 1-3 vs OU & 1-2 vs Texas. Before joining
the Big 12 they were 1-3 combined against those schools. Not even close to BYUs
success against those programs since 2003." How's your
record against TCU since 2003?Since 2003 TCU was 1-2 vs Texas/OU
before joining the Big 12. Both loses were to RANKED teams. Over that period
BYU did not play any RANKED Texas/OU team. Today, TCU plays a Big 12 schedule
(2-6 last year) while BYU was 2-5 vs P5 teams.Good luck against
@Texas, Virgina, and @Cal... 1-2?
Uteology:I wasn't blaming the rain for anything, simply pointing out
how BYUs loss to Virginia wasn't near as bad as Utah's loss to UNLV.
AZUTE made the assertion that BYUs loss to UVA was the "worst in
memory"..,I simply pointed out how much worse Utah's thumping at the
hands of UNLV was, which interestingly AZUTE hasn't argued.I
never said BYU would waltz into a P5 conference and be instantly competitive. I
was pointing to the fact that they have competed well with Big 12 teams in the
past and could certainly continue to do so. I also pointed to the fact that
TCU's issues extend beyond the gridiron and aren't just about a stepup
in SOS. I believe even their fans would agree with that assessment. You
can't judge what BYU would do solely based on what TCU has done."Today, the fact is BYU doesn't have the talent to compete in a P5
league."Apparently neither does Utah. 4-5 in 2011 against
arguably the weakest PAC in recent history...followed up by 3-6, 2-7. Ute fans
should be the last casting stones about what other programs can or can't
"which interestingly AZUTE hasn't argued."What's
to argue? U stated your opinion after I made my original statement and
didn't come even remotely close to refuting it....Unlv all of those many
years ago beat multiple Fbs opponents....Uva barely earned their sole Fbs W over
byu and was only capable of earning one other W in '13 at home against a
Fcs bottom-feeder....I don't care if Unlv's fluke W over us in Las
Vegas had been to the tune of 100-0, they still weren't the equal of Uva in
lack of accomplishment, no matter your spin....Even less so with '11 Cu.
its kind of funny how the ute people on here only have one thing to fall back
on. yes, the utes have beaten BYU more than the other way around but its only
byu and utah that care about that game. its the rest of the season that the
nation cares about. thats why byu is always ranked higher than utah. if utah
hadnt been beating byu every year then kyle would have been fired a long time
ago. thats all the utes care about is beating byu. so as long as thats all they
care about, then thats all they'll ever do is beat byu. remember utes,
theres an entire season to play. those other games aren't just for you to
waste time until you play byu again
AZUTE:Well you have your opinion and I have mine. We agree to disagree but
I think most fans of CFB would look at a 4 TD humiliation at the hands of one
the worst teams in MWC history as worse than losing by a FG to a BCS team.
Unlv's only other victory that year was against a 1-11 Utah state squad. 27
point loss to such a weak team is far worse than a 3 point loss to a P5 team
with 4 & 5 star athletes..."no matter your spin".
"which interestingly AZUTE hasn't argued."p.s. It
wasn't too long ago when Unlv beat byu 2 times, including in provo....Nw
that's humiliating, particularly a L to them at home.
"27 point loss to such a weak team is far worse than a 3 point loss to a P5
team with 4 & 5 star athletes."No it's not for the
reasons already stated and '13 Uva was hardly a team reflective of "4
& 5 star athletes", as if these were what overwhelmingly constituted
their active roster last season....U attempt to make them sound like USC or
something....Once again, their only other W on the season was at home against a
Fcs bottom-feeder....Case closed.p.s. byu has 3 Ls all-time against
Unlv, all 3 occurring in provo, the two most recent in '02/'04,
w/'02 being a 24-3 setback, merely 6 points fewer in the final margin from
our L, and in '04 their L came against a Unlv team which finished w/just 2
Ws on the season....Both of their teams finished below .500....Again, both Ls
came at home, not on the road, and occurred w/in 5 & 3 years of ours,
respectively....Now that's hysterical.
UteanymousSalt Lake City, UtahSince BYU and Utah joined a
conference that someone besides your great grandfather remembers:BYU
29-23-0Average Score: BYU 27.6, Utah 23.4AP Top 25
Finishes: BYU 17, Utah 511+ Win Seasons: BYU 11, Utah 2Conference Championships: BYU 23, Utah 6Bowl Games: BYU 32, Utah
16National Championships: BYU 1, Utah 0Heisman Trophies:
BYU 1, Utah 0National Individual Awards: BYU 15, Utah 0National Hall of Fame Players: BYU 6, Utah 0-----------And yet...Utah P5BYU isolatedUtah 54BYU
10Utah 4 wins since 2010BYU 0 wins since 2010Utah
9 wins since 2002BYU 3 wins since 2002Utah access to
playoffBYU no access to playoffBut, by all means... enjoy your
phantombladeSalt Lake City, UtahBronco is 9-9(50%) versus PAC
12 teams.Kyle is 13-21(38%).------------The
hypocrisy is THICK around here. You talk spin, and then you lay that one out
there?Comparing the coaches' records against the Pac 12 is not,
by a long shot, a fair or even comparison. Utah plays in the Pac 12. BYU
doesn't. Utah has played 16 MORE contests against the Pac 12. So don't
even try the 'BYU wins more in the Pac 12' schtick. Yeah, well... if
you actually played in the Pac 12 you certainly wouldn't.
PhantombladeBoy look at all that spin."Bronco never
lost to fellow conference bottom dwellers"Except Utah, as you
people constantly point out."Bronco won two MWC
championships.Kyle only won one."And yet you still
couldn't make it to a BCS game.Bronco had three 11+ win, Top 15
seasons.Kyle only had one.Whittingham had the only one that
mattered.BYU's consistency in seldom losing to bad teams,
especially conference bottom dwellers, explains why BYU has won 23 WAC/MWC
championships.Look, either Utah is a bottom feeder doormat or it
isn't. You people can't go saying Utah is one of the worst P5 teams
out there and then go brag about how you don't lose to bad teams, when Utah
has stomped you for four straight years and 9 of 12.So which is it?
Is Utah bad or are they a decent program?
UteologyLOL... That was 2-10 Virigia's ONLY D1 win of the
season. It shouldn't be that difficult for a legacy program down south.---------Even Ball State thrashed Virginia on their home
field, by three TDs.Legacy programs don't lose to conference
bottom dwellers, or at least that's what phantomblade says.Except Virginia, I guess.
CougsndawgsWest Point , UTcompared to BYUs 3 point loss
because of a late TO in inclement weather on the east coast.---------Ha ha ha. I love the excuses."because of
a late TO...weather... east coast..."blah blah blah blah blah
Boy of FallSpanish Fork, UTthats why byu is always ranked
higher than utah. ---------BYU is ranked higher because
BYU plays a dreadful schedule and Utah plays a tough schedule.But
enjoy that if you want.
Tomahawk RedBYU's list is comprised almost entirely of national
or season long achievements.Utah's list is comprised almost
entirely of head-to-head achievements versus BYU.Talk about little
brother syndrome.btw, didn't Stanford lose to Utah last year;
yet no fan in his right mind would try to argue that Utah was better than
Stanford.The fact that Utah only has FIVE AP Top 25 finishes in
their entire history, while BYU had TWICE that many BEFORE Utah cracked the AP
Top 25 for the first time, tells you all you need to know about how the programs
compare on a national scale.We know it hurts your feelings, but Utah
was only invited to the PAC to be cannon fodder for the big boys; the Utes were
never expected to actually be competitive.
TR"BYU is ranked higher because BYU plays a dreadful schedule
and Utah plays a tough schedule."Doesn't that directly
contradict what Utah fans have been telling us for years? That the bcs era fixed
SOS issues in the rankings and that teams are now ranked based on record versus
SOS.The distorted spin that Utah fans have to resort to, to help
themselves sleep at night, is truly hilarious.
Tomahawk RedIt might have slipped your memory, but BYU and Utah are
not in the same conference anymore, so unless that changes, it would be
impossible for BYU to lose to fellow conference member Utah.Lack of
consistency on the hill explains why the Utes seldom won conference championship
in the WAC/MWC and why they'll struggle even more, if that's possible,
in the PAC.Exhibit A: In 1994, the Utes beat four AP Top 25 teams,
were themselves ranked in the Top 10, yet didn't win the WAC championship
because the couldn't beat lowly New Mexico(4-8)Exhibit B: In
2013, the Utes beat Top 10 Stanford, but couldn't qualify for a bowl game
because they couldn't beat lowly 6-7 Washington St, a team that
couldn't beat Colorado St in the New Mexico Bowl, despite having a big lead
late in the fourth quarter.Exhibit C: In 2008, the Utes once beat
four AP Top 25 teams, but never came close to winning a national championship
because they carried absolutely no momentum into the season after getting shut
out by lowly 10-loss UNLV in 2007.
@ TroyTown"Exhibit C: In 2008, the Utes once beat four AP Top 25
teams, but never came close to winning a national championship because they
carried absolutely no momentum into the season after getting shut out by lowly
10-loss UNLV in 2007."You're wrong here. After the UNLV
loss, Utah won 8 of the next 9 games to finish out the 2007 season. The reason
Utah never got close to the NCG is because the system in place was designed to
keep mid-major teams out of it. Utah would not have received the opportunity to
play for the title, regardless of what happened in 2007.
@ Boy of FallBYU has more wins because they play a weaker schedule.
It's not hard to figure out.