OhSo it's already been decided whether or not to move it?Gee, that was fast. Very little debate there! It's
amazing how fast our legislature moves on developing land at taxpayer expense
while it's equally amazing how slow they move on anti discrimination bills,
prosecuting former AGs, and funding education.
If I get Doug's meaning correctly, the English translation of his letter
is: "Not in my back yard!"
Let us recognize facts, rather than hiding from them. The prison relocation
effort is just part of the left-wing attack on law enforcement and the
corrections system. The left-wing preaches a dogma of
anti-responsibility. Under this philosophy, criminals are not responsible for
their actions, society is. Therefore, these blameless criminals should not be
in prison, according to the left.Let us see this for what it is: an
attack on traditional notions of law enforcement.
The people pushing a relocation of the prison are those who will benefit most.
Developers. They already own the legislature. We don't need to spend a
billion dollars re-locating the prison. Build a new one in place. This
stupidity needs to be stopped right in its tracks.Any member of the
state legislature that votes to move the prison needs to be voted out of
office.If they do move the prison, the whole area needs to be
developed into a very large multi-use park featuring the hot springs and hot
pools that are there on site. Make the land into a place where families can go
to fish, camp, play, walk, bike and tie it into the Jordan River Parkway.
@John Charity Spring"The prison relocation effort is just part
of the left-wing attack on law enforcement and the corrections system."What? Do you really believe that tripe you typed? You
really think the "left-wing" does not think we need a prison? Really?
Please give us ANY actual source of this information. It would be
enlightening to read that somewhere.
@Maverick,The decision that we NEED to move it has been made. The
decision about whether we will actually move it or not has not yet been made.The analysis of the current prison facility was done by an independent
consulting group that specializes in Corrections Facilities. And their
recommendation was to move it. And if you don't move it... reconstruct on
the current site (which would cost more than constructing elsewhere).The analysis of the current facility is based on facts, figures, costs,
benefits and logic (not a political decision). The decision of whether to take
their recommendation and move... IS a political decision.We may
still decide to reject the recommendation and stay. That's what still
needs to be decided. But even if they keep it in Draper/Bluffdale... It has
security problems, structural problems, and it's too small. It needs to be
leveled, updated, and expanded. which is expensive. And where do you put the
inmates while you do that?We can't just let them out!
@Flashback,If you can give us names of the Legislators on the prison
move committee who are owned by Developers (and include the compelling evidence
you base your accusations on)... then please post it. If not... you are just
blowing steam, and hoping it sticks (and it will for some).You
really SHOULD have some "evidence" of wrong doing... if you are going to
accuse.=========I don't know if we need to MOVE...
but it for sure needs to be re-built.Do we rebuild it in the middle
of the fastest growing residential and business area in our State? Or do we
take this opportunity to move to a new (less urban) location? Same as we did
when we closed Sugar House back in 1951? ====After
building the Prison in Sugar House... our population grew and we outgrew the
facility. The current prison has the same problem.The old Sugar
House prison only housed 400 inmates. We replaced it with the current facility
that houses 4000 inmates. We also moved it to a more remote location (in
1951).Those who INSIST on making everything political... will never
Some of the military is housed in tents.The prison population should
be housed in tents.Pitching tents would be easy for a rural
community to get behind.The cost of pitching/maintaining tents would
be far less than constructing/maintaining a penal palace.
Two things only: 1. A retired engineer who worked extensively with the Dept. of
Corrections wrote an op-ed that only a single building in the current
configuration was in need of demolition and replacement. He calculated the cost
of that move would be massively less than relocation of the entire facility. 2.
The federal government is in the process of changing the rules for drug offense
incarceration that should (if followed by the States) should reduce the number
of inmates currently imprisoned and those convicted of drug offenses in the
future. The growth in the prison population could be ending.PS. The
legislature used to be predominantly lawyers. Today the top occupation is
realtor. Just sayin'.
Doug Fullmer is a real estate agent. I wonder how much he stands to make on the
To all the "so-and-so's a real estate agent, I WONDER how much he
stands to make on (fill in the blank with anything before the
legislature)"...What... Now all we have to say is, "I
WONDER"... and he's guilty???Tell us what conflicts
actually exist (not just you wonder if they exist) and you will have
credibility.But just WONDERING about something... doesn't make
Moving the prison to a rural community does nothing for the prisoners
family's and volunteers who actually REHABILITATE the prisoners. If
all the prison is, is a source of jobs for poor rural folks, then we need to
rethink the everything, because that is wrong.
People seem so concerned about proximity to a hospital.We can build
a hospital. Intermountain builds a new hospital every few years. Maybe the
next one should be in Tooele or Magna?Then the prison would be VERY
close to a hospital. AND the people on that side of the Oquirrh Mountains
would have a better hospital closer (win-win).=====Most
inmates go to the University Hospital for treatment. That's what 25-30
mile drive from point of the mountain... And how far is the U from Tooele...
~30 miles. Hmmm....==========I agree legislators should
not benefit from this. I agree. But unless you can PROVE a conflict of
interest (not just you heard someone say they wonder)... also not a show
stopper.=========Moving would benefit every Utahn in at
least one way... increased tax revenue from the homes and businesses that will
eventually occupy this land in the coming years.More families paying
State income taxes... is a good thing. More families paying property taxes...
is a good thing. More businesses paying sales tax, business tax, providing
jobs, and giving people pay-checks... is a GOOD thing.
@2bits. The relocation is going to take place to benefit developers and
businesses. Even the governor said the land is in the middle of the tech
corridor the state is pushing. As far as rebuilding on site it is easy and
doable and the inmates would not have to be moved. I have been involved in
jail and prison expansions and none of the inmates had to be moved. It is really
not that complicated to build one building and knock one down. Universities do
it all the time.In the end do you think moving the prison will
really contribute 20 billion to the economy like our legislators claim.
@ThereYouGoAgain:Tents? Get serious. Ever try to build a maximum
security tent? Ever try to heat one in the winter for permanent occupancy? How
are you going to put in toilets? Yes, we had tents in the Army. We also had
automatic weapons and a lot of other things that have nothing to do with prison.
Tents were temporary structures used for short-term occupancy or until permanent
structures were erected. For those who want to locate it in a rural
setting: Do you plan to train all new guards and staff from those communities?
How many towns have enough qualified unemployed people to fill the jobs? Or will
the State pay the cost of relocating all the existing ones who want to move?
Upgrading the infrastructure of small towns to accommodate sudden growth will
run in the millions, raising taxes for the citizens there and overloading
facilities in the meantime.How will families get there to visit? We know
that strong family ties have a lot to do with lower recidivism. How about all
the volunteers who now work with prisoners? How will you replace them?
The largest prison complex in Arizona, and the home of their Death Row, is
located in the small town of Florence. It is about 40 miles to the closest large
city, Mesa. and the closest hospital top the prison is a small community
hospital.The vast majority of the large prison complexes are in smaller rural
towns with small hospitals like Douglas, Safford, Winslow, Buckeye, Kingman, and
the aforementioned Florence. Some inmates have been exported to Prisons in
Oklahoma and Indiana, and other states export prisoners as well.The
vast majority of prisoners in Arizona are not in the metro areas of Tucson or
Phoenix. And prisoners get relocated from one side of the state to the other
pretty regularly, especially if they get into trouble.So if a larger
state like Arizona can have its prisons in rural areas, and even export
prisoners out of state, why can't Utah build a prison in Delta or Price.
These Arizona facilities seem to be able to get staffed and volunteers. And the
small towns benefit from the jobs and improved infrastructure. Why do prisoners
need to be in the most comfortable location for them and their families?