With the environmental impact considered, now is the time to move forward
NO!This is the course of LAST resort.Not until we have done
everything else possible.SUVs, Trucks, flying at 80 mph is NOT good
stewardship of the Earth!Not as long as we already have other
alternatives!Hybrid, EVs, and Bio-fuels.Why does the Deseret
News cater to such WRONG -- and I also add -- Anti-LDS policies?It must political, because the LDS Newsroom -- "official
Church policy" website says something different!
So -- The Deseret News has "officially" comes out as
Anti-Environment.I hope the "Brethren" take note of this...
Please, no. This will irrevocably destroy the land and the output will be as
dirty as it comes. It's time to move forward with energy technology, not
go in a direction that is backward to the tenth degree. I know the dream of
money drives this, but Brigham Young was right. This is about short term greed,
nothing else. Nothing.
These enviromentalist are true American patriots. God bless them.
@EsquireSpringville, UT...Brigham Young was right.======= Cha!That's right, I forgot about that!He warned the Saints over and over again about the tresures lying under their
feet, He also prophecied that persuing them, and digging them up would be
the final destruction of "this people".I've always
thought he was talking about Gold and Silver, But today it is BLACK Gold,
and the Prophet is still true!Alas -- here is the Deseret
News, siding once again with Babylon.
Tree Hugger, since you are apouting supposed LDS Doctrine, let me be the first
to throw D&C 104:7 back at you. " For the earth is full, and there is
enough and to spare; yea, I prepared all things, and have given unto the
children of men to be agents unto themselves."If I want to drive
80 this verse gives me the permission.As much as you lament this
development, the United States and it's economy run on fossil fuels. Our
transportation system, rail system, power plants (except nuclear), plastics
industry, manufacturing all need petroleum to operate. There is more than just
transportation involved. We are seeing the effects if increased
transportation costs due to high fuel prices in our everyday lives with the cost
of basic staples going up. Dairy based products, meat, poultry,
Re: "SUVs, Trucks, flying at 80 mph is NOT good stewardship of the Earth!
Not as long as we already have other alternatives!"That's
the point liberals always seem to gloss over -- we actually don't have
other reasonable alternatives.
I bet most of the protester drove a vehicle that run on gas to the protest site.
If they happen to drive a natural gas or elect car I wonder if they removed all
the plastic and rubber items from it first. OH- and most electricity is made
from fossel fuels, so electric cars don't count. It's easy to
protest, but how about living the talk and not using any items made from fossel
@LDS Tree-Hugger, LDS Liberal, Open Minded Mormon, airnut, and his other
aliases,Re: "NO! This is the course of LAST resort"...I thought the Supreme Court was the last resort. The article stated,
"The Utah Supreme Court last week rejected a petition by environmental
groups".So it sounds like the last resort is over now and
it's time to move on.At this point... you are the same as Mike
Lee and friends trying to do whatever you can to stop something that is legal,
has gone through the legal permitting process, and has been declared legal by
the Supreme Court. How are you different than Mike Lee fighting something the
Supreme Court already ruled on?
Some people like the filthy black stuff "Derrick Hugger's" who
think this is all or nothing and are to lazy to advance our civilization again.
Oil's had its run, but its almost run out. Much like whale oil, it's
time to move forward before it's an all or nothing reality for our
children.Tar sands and oil slate are truely scraping bottom.
Try growing and transporting your food without fossil fuel energy! Your
employment, your food and your life is inescapably tied to fossil fuels, like it
or not! Prediction: Food riots all over America because of stupid, foolish,
misguided and wrong headed environmental policies! The LDS have been told to be
prepared with food storage. Now we know why it will come to that! Of course the
poor will be most effected!
We've made a pact with petrochemicals and continue to espouse it, whether
it's good for us or not. I don't mind; it's paid my bills for
years and will do so for the rest of my life. As for a great shift away from it,
I don't see that happening for voluntary or environmental reasons, ever.
High prices will do it, slowly, over the coming decades. For now, however,
this is where we want to be, and it's getting less and less pretty, and
much harder to keep isolated in someone elses' backyard. We've got to
live with it as part of the deal.
My earlier post was denied.I have repented.Hopefully
this comment will be more in line with approved Republican catechism.Economic Royalists/Wealthy industrialists have told Americans that tar sand
harvesting is perfectly safe and will create millions of jobs forever.Americans know that wealthy industrialists never lie.
With all the oil coming from North Dakota, I wonder how this is profitable?Anyhow, if it is legal then it is OK. The concern about the
environmentalists is that they started another protest with a Navajo medicine
man giving a prayer last year so this might be a case where people who have a
religious viewpoint are trying to impose that viewpoint on someone else.Let the arguments begin . . . .
First it was businesses outsourcing our production capability and dependancy of
our food, clothing and shelter from communists in china, then it was using
lies and making war because of our continued reliance of oil from the middle
east, and now, not learning ANYTHING from our mistakes, it is
some ignorant types who instant on relying on 18th century energy technolgy for
21st century needs.The only thing that makes me feel better, is knowing that Socialist countries like Germany, Sweden and Japan, who
are investing heavily in clean, green and RENEWABLE energy sources, will
still be around long after America falls into dystopian dispare and 3rd world
Who is going to pay for the environmental damages caused by tar sand petroleum
extraction?The tar sand petroleum extractors? I doubt it. Exxon
fought cleaning up their mess in Valdez for years, and when forced did not
really do the job completely.Will the state of Utah tax its citizens
to clean up the mess? Doubt it. Utahns hate taxes.I guess the rest
of the US tax payers will have to clean up a third party mess in a rather
isolated state.And secondly, who will provide clean water for
children in Utah. Tar sands use a lot of water. Water Utah does not have, and
will have less of when the tar pits open. Will the extractors pay for it? No.
Will Utah do it? Doubt it. Once again, the citizens of Utah will be beholden
to the great Satan, the US government, to provide them with enough water.Talk about the height of hypocrisy.
213-acres... is not very big. That's room for 500-800 homes (in the
density we have in most Utah cities). We approve housing developments bigger
than that all the time. What's the big deal?Daybreak is a
master-planned community over 4,000 acres (google it)We've
already approved over 1000 homes to be built at the point of the mountain.213-acres is NOT a big deal!The Uintah Basin is huge...
213-acres is a speck.
@ Flashback, there is plenty of oil in the marketplace, and yet prices do not
drop appreciably. It is a manipulated market. So to all of you who say we need
more, give us a truly free market system and then we can talk. Instead, you
spout talking points from the petroleum industry.
@Esquire,You seem to know why gas prices are so high today. Maybe you
can explain how it works for us.I assume you have some partisan
magic that helps explain why BUSH was responsible when gas prices went up... But
Obama isn't when HE is President.When they went up during the
Bush Administration... it was just the President and his big oil buddies trying
to make profits. But when the same prices for the same commodity go up during
the OBAMA Administration... the President has nothing to do with it... Why so
inconsistent?Can you explain how when they go up when Bush is
President, it's the President's fault (the buck stops at the
President)... but not when Obama is President??====These
tar sands are only economical to process if gas prices are high. If the prices
go down... nobody would want to do anything with tar sands (because they would
LOOSE money).Why not just get Obama to lower prices (which would
stop the project)? You seemed to think Bush could lower oil prices any time he
wanted... Why can't Obama do it?
Extracting oil and gas in Utah does not make us a better state. The Uinta Basin
is the most polluted and disgusting region in Utah. These tar sands
folks have the legal right to develop this land. But it certainly doesn't
mean it should, and if it was a good steward of the land, the State of Utah
would discourage this form of economic development. In fact, this is a great
reason why transferring public lands back to the State of Utah would be like
hiring a 3-year old to maintain your lawn.
Why are the protestors going after the oil company that has complied with all
required state and federal agencies? If the protestors think that the legal
emission limits will cause poor air quality, why are they not petitioning the
state and federal agencies that issued the permits?To
"ordinaryfolks" I hate to break it to you, but 80% or more of the water
used in extracting oil from the tar sands is recycled and reused. They may use
a lot of water, but the water is being used over and over again, in an
environmentally responsible way.To "LDS Tree-Hugger" so what
you are saying is that we should give up 65 year old fracking technology in
favor of strip mining for the minerals used to make large car batteries, or we
should burn our food supply so we can commute to work? Which one of those ideas
sounds like a social or environmentally good alternative?To
"Open Minded Mormon" how many of those clean power sources from Europe
and Japan are being used to power their cars?
I'd like to see the "NO MORE FOSSIL FUELS" folks plan to get food
to processing plants and to the people.Try going even ONE DAY
without fossil fuels.... we would have riots and mass violence in our cities
with millions of people willing to kill to get that last can of beans on the
shelf.They claim to be thinking ahead. But they are not
thinking... or they are thinking TOO far ahead. Very few of us could survive
without fossil fuels.Rhetoric is fine.. but it's NOT
reality.============@OMM,Re "The only thing
that makes me feel better, is knowing that Socialist countries like Germany,
Sweden and Japan, who are investing heavily in clean, green and RENEWABLE
energy... blah blah...Fact is... 98.5% of Germany's power is
not renewable. Google "Where does Germany get it's power"...Wikipedia:Oil 34.6%Bituminous coal 11.1%Lignite
11.4%Natural gas 21.7%Nuclear power 11.0%Hydro- and wind power
1.5%1.5% is enough?Japan:85% fossil fuels15%
It's easy for those who have jobs to talk nonsense about oil and gas. Many
people in Utah are unemployed and many more are underemployed. They are willing
to work and they are willing to work at a job that does not feed off tax
dollars. They are willing to make Utah a better place by extracting gas and oil.
Drive to eastern Utah and look at the oil wells that are producing. Then drive
through the small towns and look at the new homes that those who extract that
oil are finally able to own. Talk to those people and learn for yourself what
life was like before high paying jobs were available.We need the
oil. We need the jobs. We have the oil. We can make jobs available to Utahns.God provided all of the natural resources and He gave us permission to
use those resources. The Church has not told us to stop driving cars. The
Church has not shut down all buildings that use coal, electricity or gas. The
Church uses planes, cars, trains and buses to get people where they need to be.
re LDS tree huggerLive simply, so that others may simply live. -
Mahatma GandhiThe world has resources enough for man's needs
but not for man's greeds. -- Ghandi
to "redshirt"Fracking technology? Really? Call it what it
is... no need to use Utah substitutions for profanity.
Since the world is, and has been ending for 6,000 years - there no need to
protect anything.What's the problem?I'm pretty
sure "it" will happen tomorrow, right?
@ 2 bits, what are you talking about? I never said a word about Bush. All I
said,in essence, is that the free market system isn't working in the oil
industry, prices are manipulated even with our current glut. Your arguments are
some fantasy but have nothing to do with what I wrote.
@Those Opposed to Developing Sources of Oil: Feel free to go back to
the Stone Age, but don't plan on the rest of us going with you. There is
hardly anything in this life that isn't about trade-offs. You all are quick
to point out the negative aspects of resource development, but seem not to
understand that the positive aspects outweigh the negative by a huge margin.I've never really understood the push for solar and wind energy.
Sure, they're "renewable", but have you checked into what is
necessary to build a solar panel or a windmill? It's not like they grow on
trees or something. And what do you suppose it does to weather patterns (think
droughts and floods) when large amounts of energy are removed from the wind,
which is nature's transport mechanism for water.
All my life, I have heard that the Utah, Colorado, Wyoming area has more oil in
the oil shale than all of the middle east combined and that include Saudi
Arabia, Iraq and all the others.. Yet all my life we never have made use of this
resource, this in spite of the fact that the United States is dependent on
outsiders for much of our energy life's blood.If a company
thinks they have the technology to harvest this great resource, by all means,
lets not stand in their way. No doubt since this is just the beginning, their
technology isn't the best possible, but with time the technology will
improve.By the way, the United States has more energy in Coal than
all the middle east oil combined too, we are truly blessed.