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BYU's 1984 Holiday Bowl win transcended football for linebacker Leon White

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  • Lionute Payson, UT
    June 29, 2014 5:38 p.m.

    This is a nice article about a former Cougar. I hope this does not turn into a debate about BYU's Championship. I don't feel the article is intended for debate but rather that of a man who took full advantage of his college experience and then applied the lesson learned into life. What a fantastic memory for a player knowing that the last game his father watched turned out to be for a National Championship. If we need to debate the 84 title we can just go back to almost any article written in the past month.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 29, 2014 6:09 p.m.

    @Lionute

    That's a nice sentiment on your part but unfortunately there are utah "fans" like u-pac and chris b that simply will not allow that to happen. We'll hear from both shortly.

  • Pugman TREMONTON, UT
    June 29, 2014 6:29 p.m.

    @U-PAC

    Bitter still

  • Kenngo1969 Tooele, UT
    June 29, 2014 7:22 p.m.

    Good on you, Mr. White. I'm glad you made your father proud on that occasion, and I trust that you've done so ever since. Thanks for the memories!!

  • I Bleed Blue Las Vegas, NV
    June 29, 2014 7:48 p.m.

    Leon White was one of the greats during the glory days. To those that question the national championship, just remember the team that beat Oklahoma that year in the Orange Bowl and made a 'claim' they were the 84 champions came to Provo in 85. BYU put a 31 to 3 beat down on Washington that day. Didn't hear much of a peep from the Huskies after that game.

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    June 29, 2014 8:53 p.m.

    Poor U-PAC. Don't we all feel so sorry for him (her?)? Sour grapes must taste great to somepeople!

  • BYU blue through and through OREM, UT
    June 29, 2014 9:46 p.m.

    Don't know if Leon White will read this, but if so:

    I was a teenager playing my way through youth football leagues when you played for the Y. That 1984 team was chock full of players I was a fan of, but there were none I enjoyed watching play the game more than you. I tried to model my limited skills after what I saw you do. I also enjoyed following your progress as a pro in the NFL after you days in Provo were done. Thanks for giving me a lot to cheer for through those years - your play on the field never disappointed and all of BYU Nation was privileged to see you in our Cougar Blue.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    June 29, 2014 10:08 p.m.

    There are two iconic trophies representing the ultimate individual and team achievements in major college football - the Heisman Trophy and the Crystal Football National Championship Trophy.

    Both trophies are displayed proudly in BYU's Legacy Hall of Fame.

    Achievements that u-pac and her jealous friends can only dream of happening on the hill.

    btw, despite u-pac's frantic and emotional claims to the contrary, absolutely NOTHING has changed since 1984 in the way the AP poll determines its national champion.

    In fact, I challenge u-pac to put her money where her mouth is an explain EXACTLY, with documented proof, what according to her has changed with respect to the AP national champion since 1984.

  • wahului Stockton, CA
    June 29, 2014 10:22 p.m.

    Most people seem to forget that BYU lost one game...their first one in the 1983 season and were 23 in a ROW when they won the National Championship at the end of 1984. They had gone nearly TWO complete seasons without a loss. There was no legitimate argument against BYU as the National Champion. Bryant Gumbel was whining about BYU as NC when one of the other sports commentators on the show asked "Who else could it be?" after pointing out that string of wins. The argument effectively died there. Leon White is justifiably proud of the accomplishments of his team, and justifiably grateful that his father got to see it. We should all be so blessed with such a poignant and precious memory.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    June 29, 2014 10:36 p.m.

    "BYU has the trophy". Nuff said. Too bad for u-pac.

  • Hawk Littleton, CO
    June 30, 2014 7:13 a.m.

    u-pac:
    "The DNews is in business to trumpet favorable, unequivocal LDS/BYU propaganda. Whatever "angle" is their vehicle always promotes BYU/LDS "glory.""

    So if DesNews is a propaganda tool for BYU, you have to say the same for the SLTrib and the U of U. Well, apparently it's working for the DesNews, as there is a great deal of interest in BYU sports in this market (majority being in Salt Lake county), with fans of both major universities flocking to its forums. For a market which the pac/utes claim to own, it's interesting that their flagship media outlet (SLTrib) is fighting for its very existence. Hmmmm. I guess ownership of the local market is not so clear cut after all....

  • Simpe Spectator St.George, UT
    June 30, 2014 9:32 a.m.

    24-17 over an un-ranked team. Greatest win of our lives!! So glad 20 years later we can still brag about it.

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    June 30, 2014 9:51 a.m.

    BYU was not the 5th best team in 1984. Maybe not even the 8th best. Simple honest fact. I am happy that circumstances worked out in a way that they could claim the National Championship trophy, but let's face it--I've even heard many, many die hard Cougar fans admit that this is a joke. I've even seen better BYU teams than this. This win over lowly Michigan forced the NCAA to take a hard look at the way that the National Championship is crowned and probably was the basis for undefeated Ute teams (both of which would have mopped the floor with the 84 Cougars) to not be able to play for the National Championship. I'm okay with that, but let's not pretend that this 84 team was something they never were. They were a pretty good BYU team who caught lightning in a bottle with an easy schedule and an incredibly easy opponent in a second tier bowl game. That's it.

  • BlueNtheFace Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    June 30, 2014 9:56 a.m.

    Very hot topic for 2 fan bases: Washington Huskies and Utah Utes. Both with lots of jealousy and bitterness. Deal with it.

    Go BYU. '84 National Champions!

  • Dwayne Nielson Alpine, UT
    June 30, 2014 10:11 a.m.

    Simpe spectator 2014 minus 1984 is 30 years, not 20.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 30, 2014 11:35 a.m.

    xert

    BYU was THE MOST DESERVING team to be selected 1984 National Champion as determined by CONSENSUS of ALL FIVE major college football organizations of the day, including the majority of AP and Coaches poll voters.

    It's laughable that the haters who whine about BYU 1984 being ranked #1 in both polls, use those exact same rankings to validate their arguments - in other words, the voters were absolutely correct in ranking every other team in the country EXCEPT for BYU.

    btw, BYU beat Air Force(8-4) at Air Force, which finished #24 in the final AP poll, HIGHER than Utah's 2004 Fiesta Bowl opponent.

  • Mark321 Las Vegas, NV
    June 30, 2014 11:54 a.m.

    U-PAC

    I can understand your point how BYU winning a national championship in 1984 was a lame duck type national championship. I disagree though I can understand. You have to remember that the national championship in pre-BCS era didn't have the number 1 and number 2 ranked teams pitted against each other except for a handful of times. So if you have to question BYU's national championship in 1984 than you have to question every national champion crowned before 1998 (pre-BCS era) except for the few occasions a number 1 was pitted against a number 2 which hardly happened.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 30, 2014 12:03 p.m.

    @U-Pac

    There are 4 Officially Sanctioned polls to determine College Football's National Champion.
    In 1984, after a 2 year, 24 game winning streak, BYU was voted Number 1 in all four polls...

    Coaches.....Waterford Crystal Ball
    Writers.....Associated Press
    N.F.F.......Macarthur Bowl
    F.W.A.A. ...Grantland Rice

    BYU is one of only 19 College Programs which has ever been voted National Champions in every "Official" poll in the same year.

    In addition, 9 other unofficial polls gave BYU the #1 nod.

    All of your jealously and sour grapes will never undo the history books which are there for the ages.

    Just as BYU's Hall of Famers and 21 National Award winners, Heisman, Outland's, Walker, Baugh's, and O'Brien trophies etc, are also things which one will never find at Utah's Legacy Closet.

    For a real Legacy Hall, containing College Football's most coveted hardware, visit BYU.
    Students of the History of College football are Welcome.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 30, 2014 12:08 p.m.

    Mark321

    You are correct that the #1 team, didn't play the #2 team often. But no NC team played a team as poor as Michigan (6-6). It wasn't BYU fault, that's just the way it was.

    Xert is spot on; even though many don't want to hear it!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 30, 2014 12:16 p.m.

    @ xert

    The NCAA did not look at BYU's National Championship at all.

    Roy Kramer, head of the Southeastern Conference, created the first illegal cartel i.e. The Bowl Alliance and then the BCS, in order to illegally corner the market on the money. They had to back down a bit when the U.S. Senate held hearings and was about to refer this to the Justice Department with anti-Trust litigation.

    This was a result of BYU being baited and then switched upon when they finished 5th in both polls in '96 and were promised either the Orange, Sugar or Fiesta Bowl Game, if they had finished in the Top 6. Lavell Edwards even made the trip to New York.

    So you see, without BYU's season in '96 and their mistreatment, Utah, TCU, N. Illinois, Boise St., Hawaii etc. never would have been under the new rules, whereby they all qualified for the phony caste system called the BCS.

    You're Welcome!

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    June 30, 2014 12:16 p.m.

    The naysayers might have a point if BYU 1984, like Utah 2004 and Utah 2008, had been a one-trick pony with practically no accomplishments on a national scale prior to 2004 and 2008.

    Unfortunately for the haters, BYU had FIVE Top 12 finishes in the six seasons leading up to 1984, including finishing #7 in both the AP and Coaches polls in 1983.

    Unlike Utah, BYU had developed enough "street cred" with the voters to be voted #1, even with a less-than-stellar SOS.

    Of course it didn't hurt, that NOBODY else had a stronger argument for being selected #1 than BYU.

    Washington, Nebraska, Oklahoma and Florida all had warts of their own that the voters also took into consideration.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 30, 2014 12:19 p.m.

    "We never got the respect."
    "I had to battle with people about it, and I still battle with people about it — the teams we played. I guess it will be an ongoing thing." Leon White.

    No question that the *1984 NC was and still is controversial.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 30, 2014 12:42 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "You are correct that the #1 team, didn't play the #2 team often. But no NC team played a team as poor as Michigan (6-6). It wasn't BYU fault, that's just the way it was."

    The majority of BYU fans wanted a chance to play #2 Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl for a chance to prove that BYU deserved to be #1.

    Unfortunately, BYU was contractually obligated to play in the Holiday Bowl, and both Washington and Nebraska turned down invitations to play #1 BYU in the Holiday Bowl.

    Washington, in particular, thought they could win a national championship by beating the #2 team, instead of the #1 team, and then whined when the voters didn't agree.

    BYU gave the Huskies a little payback for their whining a few months later when BYU destroyed Washington 31-3 in 1985.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 30, 2014 12:48 p.m.

    ekute

    The only reason 1944 wasn't even more "controversial" is because the rest of the country couldn't have cared less about a meaningless championship won in a 2nd rate tournament during the middle of a world war.

  • Coach Biff Lehi, UT
    June 30, 2014 12:49 p.m.

    My locker was right next to Leon's in 1985. I was a local kid from PG who probably didn't belong on the same field as many of the guys on that team. Leon was genuine and kind, even though he used us as a chew toy in practice. He talked to me like I was his team mate and made me feel like I was important to the team. He has no idea how he impacted me. He was a true team captain, leading by example always. He was and is and always will be my favorite Cougar. Thank you for the article. Thank you, Leon.

  • SlopJ30 St Louis, MO
    June 30, 2014 1:16 p.m.

    Man, some people will continue to ankle-bite forever. Anyone who asserts that it's a "fact" that BYU wasn't the best team in the nation in 1984 doesn't know what the word "fact" means. Even if I agree with you, the "best" team in any given year is an opinion, and an irrelevant one.

    What's relevant is who gets the votes to either win a title (pre-BCS), be in the title game (BCS), or be in a playoff (currently). BYU got the votes, therefore BYU was the champ. That title was no more or less legit than any others in the pre-BCS era. In 1984, the method of choosing a champion was stupid. Yet, it was what it was.

    I lament the fact that a cruddy movie like Transformers 4 was the No. 1 movie this weekend by a mile, and yet there it is. I can say it's overrated, I can say it didn't deserve it, but it got the votes (in the form of tickets bought). In the end, my opinion on the matter doesn't mean jack.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    June 30, 2014 1:51 p.m.

    Despite 1984 and byu being a national powerhouse, somehow Jamaal Williams thought byu was a division II school and brian logan said he had never heard of byu, despite being a huge college football fan, until he watched them play UCLA in a bowl game while he was at a junior college.

    I just can't imagine how these guys missed the memo about 1984 and how big time byu is.

    And I've never heard a single athlete mention any other big time program thinking they were division II or not even knowing them - I've only heard such feelings about byu.

    Interesting

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 30, 2014 2:03 p.m.

    Rockwell

    I understand all that. Like I said; it's not BYU's fault. The fact of the matter is that they played a weak schedule and a weak Michigan (6-6) team for the title. No other team in modern college football has won the NC with that weak of a schedule, and that weak of a bowl opponent. At least admit that. Too bad they didn't get a shot at Washington or one of the top 3-5 teams; that year. They deserved it. Washington was 7-5 the following year and lost the week before to Oklahoma State, 31-17. The 11-1 1984 team was far better with the only loss at USC.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 30, 2014 2:06 p.m.

    @ Coach Biff

    Very Cool Guy! Nicely done!

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    June 30, 2014 2:19 p.m.

    Chris B

    Most college players today probably don't know a thing about the Four Horseman, the Immaculate Reception, or the Miracle on Ice, but that doesn't make those iconic players and teams any less relevant in sports history.

    What is interesting is that jealous BYU haters like yourself continue to obsess about a legitimate championship won 30 years ago.

    Aren't the sour grapes getting a little stale by now?

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    June 30, 2014 2:33 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    If the defending Super Bowl Champion had played BYU's 1984 schedule, would that have proven that they weren't good enough to win the national champion?

    The answer, of course, is that a weak SOS only proves that BYU was less challenged, it doesn't prove that BYU wasn't as good or better than all of the other national championship contenders.

    btw, Washington only beat Michigan 20-11, BYU beat Michigan 24-17, a whopping 2-POINT difference, and BYU's offense scored four more points against the same Michigan defense that Washington faced, despite playing most of the game with a quarterback who could barely stand.

  • goosehuntr Tooele, UT
    June 30, 2014 3:17 p.m.

    All I know... is that White and his team did all they could do. The trophy sits in the case at BYU. BYU did not give that to themselves. They simply did all they could do to win it, and the Trophy was given to them... BYU did not give it to themselves. They simply did all they could possibly do. So, don't discredit BYU. Discredit those... ALL OF THOSE, who voted them #1. It's their fault... All BYU did was beat everyone that they faced. Circumstances beyond their control took care of the rest. No BYU player should ever have to defend what they did in 1984...EVER!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 30, 2014 3:18 p.m.

    @skywalker

    Comparing the "Super Bowl Champion" to what BYU did is commical. I'm not exactly sure what you are even asking? The Seahawks don't play college teams; good grief. The Super Bowl Champ is determined in a playoff format, and requires at least 3 consecutive wins at seasons end. You can spin it any way you want but the facts are that BYU didn't beat a single top 20 team that year. No other NC can say that. Correct? BYU beat a Michigan team that finished 6-6. No other NC can say that. Correct? It wasn't there fault. They didn't even get the chance to play a top team because the system was flawed. Was BYU better than Washington in '84? Maybe, maybe not; we will never know. Just telling it like it was; and is!

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    June 30, 2014 3:32 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    skywalker's point is that quality of opposition doesn't determine how good a team is, it only determines how much they've been tested.

    Regardless of how much it hurts our jealous friends on the hill, after over a month of careful scrutiny of all of the 1984 national championship contenders, BYU was found to be more deserving than Washington, Nebraska, Oklahoma or Florida by the majority of AP and Coaches voters.

    There's absolutely no way of proving which team was actually "better".

  • SlopJ30 St Louis, MO
    June 30, 2014 3:46 p.m.

    Chris, as is your tendency you're diverting the discussion to refute things no-one is saying, and which would be irrelelvant if they were. The term "big-time" is about as subjective as any word can be. Some people would consider BYU football to be "big time," some wouldn't. "Big time" or not, the '84 title is and always will be BYU's, regardless of what you or B Gumbel think about it.

    Stating that two teenagers didn't know much about BYU before being recruited is probably not your best source of validation. How sure are you they had any idea where the U was or what conference they played in at that point in their lives? Would you be shocked if there are thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of schoolkids across 'Merica who can't find Utah on a map. Does this say more about the state, or about them?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 30, 2014 4:36 p.m.

    Sportsguy

    Oh, I'm not bitter; or jealous. Utah's season in 2004 was comporable to what BYU did 20 years earlier, and there 2008 season was far more impressive. I'm cool with that. Actually, BYU's Cotton Bowl season and win over Kansas State was more impressive than 1984. I can admit that BYU won the NC fair and square. I keep saying it, the system was no fault of BYUs. The fact, which many BYU fan can't admit, is that they played a horrible schedule and a weak opponent in the bowl. Is that not true? Has any other NC played a weaker schedule or bowl opponent? Of course not! I agree there's no way of telling who's better too. Just like there is no telling how Utah stacked up against the best in 2004 and 2008; or when TCU ran the table and won the Rose Bowl. A playoff helps, but it's going to be highly unlikely that Utah or BYU will ever make the 4 team format. It should at least be 8 teams. IMO

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 30, 2014 4:51 p.m.

    In 2008, Bleacher Report listed the most undeserving National Champions over the previous 25 years. Here it is:

    BYU 1984
    Georgia Tech 1990
    Colorado 1990
    Michigan 1997
    FSU 1993

    The article goes on to say (regarding Michigan's team) "easilly Bo Schembelchers worst squad in his 21 years in Ann Arbor. It is still the only Michigan team to finish without a winning record since 1967".

  • BayAreaCougar Pleasanton, CA
    June 30, 2014 5:06 p.m.

    I have an interesting perspective on the 1984 National Championship. I attended every BYU home game that year, but I also did my undergraduate work at the University of Washington in the 90s. The Husky's have a strong argument but their argument lacks the strength of BYU's. The end result is that more voters thought that a team with a 23 game winning streak, that had done all it was asked of it, deserved the national championship.

    As for Chris B's comments about recruits not knowing about BYU. I had college football fans congratulate me on my teams BCS wins while wearing my BYU attire here in San Francisco. Some of your fellow PAC school fans give BYU credit for your wins. Sorry, but I don't think that the Utes have the impact out side of the state of Utah that you think they do.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    June 30, 2014 5:15 p.m.

    Chris B -

    if/when utah ever gets out of the pac cellar, then you can talk smack about "big time". In the meantime, BYU still has a National Championship Trophy - something utah will NEVER have. And you can mark that down.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 30, 2014 5:46 p.m.

    @U-Pac, Chris B, ekute, SpokaneUte, etc.

    One thing is for certain...

    NOBODY, I repeat NOBODY, will ever debate Utah's "Unanimous National Championship" in Football, or their National Award winners (21), i.e. Heisman, Maxwell, Outland, Baugh, O'Brian, and Doak Walker Trophies...

    Why? Because U DON'T HAVE ANY!

    Nor have U produced even one Hall of Famer, a Legendary Coach, or Super Bowl and NFL MVP's.

    Some just talk the talk....see Utah

    others...

    Walk the walk!...see BYU!

    Legacy programs and National Brands are built over "Generations".
    Posers, full of False Bravado, just need 6 good years in 50.

  • phantomblade Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 30, 2014 8:14 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Frankly, I couldn't care less about the personal opinion of some hack sportswriter from Bleacher Report, SI, or any other publication 30 years after the fact.

    The ONLY thing that matters is that 38 of the 60 AP voters in 1984 did feel that BYU deserved the national championship more than any other team, more than twice as many as runner-up Washington with 16 first place votes, and more than six times as many as 3rd place Florida with only 6 first place votes.

  • Old But Not Stupid Moorpark, CA
    June 30, 2014 10:28 p.m.

    U-PAC
    Rowlett, TX

    "The DNews is in business to trumpet favorable, unequivocal LDS/BYU propaganda." Propaganda? Isn't it a fact that in 1984 BYU was voted the National Champion? Don't see that as propaganda.

    "Whatever 'angle' is their vehicle always promotes BYU/LDS "glory." And if the Utes had been voted the National Champion in 1984 (or any other year for that matter), the Crimson Crew would have an "angle." Too bad the Utes will NEVER win the NC, no matter how it is determined.

  • grouchyoldman Arden, NC
    July 1, 2014 5:21 a.m.

    Coach Lombardie said that: "The quality of a mans life is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence, regardless of his chosen field of endeveour". (Remembering that the word man was at one time gender neutral.) I believe that these two men learned not only that but many other life lessons on the field of competition. Thanks for a great story.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 1, 2014 8:31 a.m.

    "Texas Christian, Boise State, and Utah have been tearing it up over the last decade, but in 1984 Brigham Young did something none of those other "Little Big" teams have even gotten a legitimate shot at: they finished #1. Unfortunately, BYU '84 differs from those other teams in another way too: they did not play a single ranked opponent. The only so-called "national champion" that didn't (though Oklahoma came very close in 1956).

    BYU's 1984 opponents went 61-85-3, placing their schedule 96th amongst 98 division 1A schools. And yet their performance was as weak as their schedule. They won five games by a touchdown or less, from a 20-14 win at 3-7-1 Pitt in their opener to a 24-17 win against 6-6 Michigan in the Holiday Bowl-- by far the worst bowl opponent ever faced by a so-called "national champion." How bad was Michigan? They finished 6th in the Big Ten, and the Big Ten was a horrid 12-15 against nonconference opponents and 1-5 in bowl games. The only conference in the country that was as bad as the Big 10 was the WAC itself."

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 1, 2014 8:32 a.m.

    "So how did BYU end up #1? Well, for one thing, BYU was greatly aided by the weekly upset chaos of 1984. Look at the teams in the top 20 and you see only one team with just 1 loss, and one other with a loss and tie. Everyone else had at least 2 losses. The 1-loss team, Washington, lost the Rose Bowl bid because Southern Cal beat them, so they were not viewed as a conference champion (though they were, sharing the title with USC). And the 9-1-1 team, Florida, was hit with probation in September for massive cheating, and no one wanted to reward a "cheater." So the timing was right.

    Of course, in 2007 a 2-loss LSU team was rated higher than an unbeaten Hawaii team that looked a lot like BYU '84, so in the end, what put BYU over the top in 1984 was a zeitgeist thing. Or maybe a mass psychosis thing. In any case, it had never happened before, and it has not happened since, even though there have been quite a few better "Little Big Teams" than BYU '84 before and since. Let's compare BYU '84 to some of them, shall we?"

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 1, 2014 9:17 a.m.

    @xert

    16 players from that 1984 BYU team went to the NFL. Did even 16 players combined from those 2 utah teams go to the NFL?

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    July 1, 2014 9:55 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    LOL at your spin!

    "BYU was greatly aided by the weekly upset chaos of 1984..."

    So you're actually suggesting that 1984 was the only season in the history of college football where there was "chaos" caused by upsets?

    It's funny the distorted spin that Utah fans have to put on every BYU accomplishment just to help them sleep at night.

    You conveniently overlooked the fact that BYU was the ONLY team in the country who managed to avoid the upset bug.

    The simple truth is BYU had developed enough national cachet with the voters by finishing in the Top 12 in 5 of the 6 previous seasons, that voters couldn't simply explain away BYU's undefeated season as based on nothing but a weak schedule.

    How bad was Michigan?

    Michigan would have tied for the Big 10 championship and played in the Rose Bowl if they'd beaten Ohio State in their regular season finale.

    btw, Washington only beat Michigan 20-11, the same team BYU beat in the Holiday Bowl 24-17.

    Bottom line, the majority of sportswriters and coaches who voted on the national polls did feel that BYU was more deserving of being 1984 National Championship than any other team.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2014 10:15 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    "Let's compare BYU '84 to some of them, shall we?"

    Why not?

    BYU '84 finished their undefeated season on a 24-game winning that included back-to-back Top 7 finishes, road wins over two Top 15 teams, and three Top 25 teams, and ranked #1 by all FIVE major college football organizations of the day, including the AP and Coaches polls.

    Robbie Bosco led the nation in passing yardage, and finished second (behind Doug Flutie of Boston College) in pass efficiency. He finished third in the voting for the 1984 Heisman Trophy. Bosco was later inducted into the National College Football Hall of Fame.

    Remind us where Alex Smith, the greatest QB in the history of Utah football, finished in each of those categories.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 1, 2014 11:27 a.m.

    @PhantomBlade

    But as usual you seem to care very deeply about what I have to say, as you always have a comment or angry response to my position. Now that's curious?

    Bluto

    Do you always get riled up and type in Caps when trying to debate a topic? Others have a different postion; no need to get all excited.

    I find it very odd that not a single BYU fan can answer the simple questions that I have asked over and over again. Has anyone ever played a weaker schedule than BYU did in 1984 and win the NC? Has a national champion ever played a weaker bowl opponent than BYU did that year? I hate to use the silly phrase but it rings so true.........crickets.

    Again, it's not BYU's fault but it's absolutely true!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 1, 2014 11:42 a.m.

    We have a very interesting comparison to witness right now on these boards.

    On the one hand you have a feel good story about Travis Wilson being cleared by doctors to play football again and given a clean bill of health. Several BYU fans have commented on that article and unanimously offered heartfelt congratulations to this young man on his return to health. No negative comments about Travis or utah were made by any BYU fan in those comments.

    On the otherhand we have a sad but heartfelt story about a former BYU player whose father died of cancer but was fortunate enough to see him play one last time before he died and then we have several utah "fans" who use that as an opportunity to bash BYU rather than simply making some kind comments to and about the former player.

    It is of course very telling about the quality of individual that constitutes each fanbase isn't it.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 1, 2014 11:44 a.m.

    AZUTE

    Nice job of sticking with the facts. I notice folks counter your position by reffering to wins that didn't even take place that season and a Heisman trophy that really doesn't have anything to do with the matter at hand: strength of schedule and strength of bowl opponenet. That seemz to be a very sensitive subject. I guess when you look at the facts; it's easy to see why.

    BlueCoug

    Don't tell us how Michigan "would have done"? Tell us how they actually fared. Sorry Guy, but 6-6 is weak suace. I also find in odd that you are actually claiming AZUTE is spinning things; he's just stating the facts. No ifs, and or buts needed.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 1, 2014 11:56 a.m.

    Duckhunter,
    The first byu player picked in the 1985 NFL Draft was 28th. The next byu player was 106th. lol.

  • Christine B. Hedgefog Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2014 12:22 p.m.

    Thanks for the usual comedy from the usual haters. Even if BYU's 1984 SOS had rivaled Utah's 2013 basketball pre-season triple digit SOS BYU still has a unanimous national championship trophy on display. Unanimous (definition=fully in agreement) from EVERY SINGLE voting agency, except apparently, from the MUFS (mighty utah fanbase section). And everyone knows the MUFS has national credibility outside of East Salt Lake...NOT

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 1, 2014 12:34 p.m.

    @ekute

    Uh....so what? So a 1st round pick and a 5th round pick? Sounds good to me but you do realize not every single player on that team was a senior don't you?

    16 PLAYERS from that team went on to play in the NFL, I didn't say 16 seniors from that team. I do enjoy you exposing the quality of that university of utah education yet again however. lol

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    July 1, 2014 12:47 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    If 6-6 is "weak sauce", what does that say about 3-9 that Utah fans beat their chests about?

    "Don't tell us how Michigan "would have done"? Tell us how they actually fared."

    Sorry guy, but it's absolutely hilarious that Utah fans are telling us what "would have happened" if BYU 1984 had played under the "BCS rules", instead of simply accepting what DID happen in 1984.

    BYU was CONSENSUS 1984 Major College Football National Champion as selected by EVERY major selecting organization of the day.

    BYU owns the hardware to prove it.

    The only thing our envious friends on the hill own is a lot of clueless speculation based on their own bitter jealousy.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 1, 2014 1:12 p.m.

    @ekute

    Sorry my bad, it wasn't a 1st round pick and a 5th round pick, it was a 1st round pick and a 4th round pick plus TWO 5th round picks and a 7th round pick. That is 5 drafted sr's from that team. Then the next year there were 7 players drafted a 3rd, a 5th, and an 8th, 9th, 10th 11th and 12th. So that is twelve of the 22 starters on the 84' team that were actually DRAFTED by the NFL. Then the following year there were 4 more drafted so the total now exceeds what I thought it was with 16 players DRAFTED. Then the next year there were 3 more bringing the total to 19 drafted from that team and of course there were also some guys that played in 84' that then went on missions or redshirted and were drafted after that. Then there were also several free agents from that team that played in the NFL brining the total number of players from the 84' team that later played in the NFL to almost 30.

    So tell me, did almost 30 total players from utah's combined '04 and 08' teams get drafted let along play in the nfl?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 1, 2014 1:18 p.m.

    @Rockwell

    You seem to be getting very upset. The use of capitals letters is a dead give away. Take a deep breath. I know BYU owns the hardware. I know they won the NC in 1984. I know the system wasn't there fault. I can admit that. I've never said other wise. Now answer the questions. Name a National Champion that has played a weaker schedule? Name a National Champion that has played a weaker bowl opponent. Don't get upset, don't skirt the question, just answer it.

    Also, not bitter or jealous at all. BYU won the National Championship, by default, 30 years ago. Any college football fan knows that Utah, TCU and Boise State have all put together better seasons and resumes since then. They all had to beat a top 10 team in a bowl game. BYU didn't even beat a top 25 team. They beat lowly 6-5 Michigan. Again, not BYU's fault but it's an undisputable Fact!

  • BigDaddyCoug SARATOGA SPRINGS, UT
    July 1, 2014 1:41 p.m.

    Spokane Ute:

    I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word 'default,' which means failure to fulfill an obligation. So, I'm not sure what you are getting at here. If you mean that BYU was the best choice, because others who were expected to win didn't, then I guess you are correct. I'm pretty sure that happens every year, but maybe I have been missing it the whole time!?!

    No one disputes that BYU's SOS was weak. However, all four major polls unanimously decided to crown them Champions. It was aided by a body of work that led up to 1984. I get that you might not understand that, as it was a bit different for your team, who had two very nice bust out seasons, with very little body of work.

    The real fact that you can't dispute... BYU has the Trophy. Debate all you want, that will never change.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    July 1, 2014 1:42 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Name another fan base that is so jealously obsessed with their rival that they're still trying to discredit a legitimate consensus national championship won 30 years ago.

    Don't get upset. Don't skirt the issue. Just answer it.

    Sorry, but finishing lower in the polls proves that you didn't have as good a season in 2004 or 2008, as BYU had in 1984.

    As every grade-school kid could tell you:

    #1 > #2, #4 or #5

    In the official "BCS" final poll, the Utes have never finished higher than #4.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 1, 2014 1:44 p.m.

    @ekute

    Oh and by the way since 1967 there has been 116 players from BYU DRAFTED into the NFL, most of those since 1980. In the entire history of the university of utah only 83 players from utah have been drafted which is 33 less than BYU. BYU has twice had 7 players drafted into the NFL in one years draft, that has never occured with utah. Plus BYU has had multiple other years where 4 or 5 players were all drafted in the same year.

    Quite frankly there is no comparison here, BYU dominates this discussion and considering close to 30 players from the 84' team went on to play in the NFL, with more than 2/3rd's of them actually drafted, it is pretty easy to make the case that BYU 84' > utah 04'/08' combined based on the utah "fan" barometer of successful college teams which is players put into the NFL.

    LOL indeed.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 1, 2014 1:48 p.m.

    @spokaneute

    Your bitterness and jealousy is evident in your verbiage and continued posts on this subject. By trying to degrade the accomplishment and using words like "default" to describe it your passive/aggressive style shines through and shows it to be nothing more than hypocritical jealousy. It is entertaining though.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 1, 2014 2:11 p.m.

    @ BigDaddyCoug

    Default may be a little strong. They did every thing in there power. They never got the chance to play a top team because it was a broke system. They played the weakest schedule in college football and the weakest bowl opponent ever to win the National Championship. Thanks for at least some what admitting that and not getting all bent out of shape. That's just the way it was.

    @ Rockwell

    You seem to be taking the debate very personel. I'm not jealous of BYU football in any way, shape or form. Just pointing out the obvious; which really has you upset. Are you honestly going to say that BYU's undefeated season was more impressive than Utah's, TCU's or Boise States? I"m sure any TCU or BSU fan would tell you exactly what I have. What do you base your position on other than a very biased opinion? I base my position on record, strength of oppisition and bowl opponent.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 1, 2014 2:12 p.m.

    One poor BYU fan had to go all the way back to 1967. Oh the horror!

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    July 1, 2014 2:29 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "I'm not jealous of BYU football in any way, shape or form."

    Good thing you're not Pinnochio, you'd have a schnoz that would make an aardvark jealous.

    No "biased" opinion necessary.

    A consensus national championship is the apex of major college football team achievement.

    In other words, NOTHING exceeds it.

    #1/#1 is BETTER than #2/#4 or #4/#5.

    "One poor BYU fan had to go all the way back to 1967."

    It's laughable that poor Utah fans have to go all the way back to the leather helmet era to dig up championships, season records, and head-to-head results just to help them feel better about the fact that BYU accomplished FAR MORE from 1979 to 1991 than the Utes have accomplished in their entire history.

    That's not even debateable.

  • Rose Bowl call yet? Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2014 2:37 p.m.

    spokaneute

    What year did Utah first crack the AP poll?

    How many National Championships, Heisman Trophies, AP Top 25 Finishes, National Individual Awards, WAC Championships, Bowl Game appearances, and 11+ win seasons had BYU achieved before Utah managed their first ever AP Top 25 finish?

    That, in a nutshell, should tell U where U really stand in comparison to BYU.

    Jealous much?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 1, 2014 3:24 p.m.

    BigDaddyCoug stated:

    "No one disputes that BYU's SOS was weak"
    ---
    really? Show me one other BYU fan who has admitted that. I've been waiting for a BYU fan to admit that no other National Champion played a weaker title opponent than Michigan. It's a fact; but no one will.

    Why is the truth and those facts so painful to admit? Why do BYU fans get so defensive when it's brought up? I haven't made anything up. I don't have a snide screen name that be-littles BYU. Just telling the truth regarding the 1984 season which really puts BYU fans on the defensive.

  • Christine B. Hedgefog Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2014 3:24 p.m.

    Spokane "I base my position on record, strength of oppisition(sic) and bowl opponent."

    As opposed to record, body of work over time, consensus polls, and actual banner and hardware. We understand, since actual bona fide results up on the hill don't fit into your superiority over BYU spin. You've said the same thing about 12 times on this article alone. I guess the ole "if I say it enough times I'll actually convince myself to believe it" is alive and well in Spokane.

  • BigDaddyCoug SARATOGA SPRINGS, UT
    July 1, 2014 3:26 p.m.

    Also, Ute fans keep ragging on Michigan and their 6-5 record going into the bowl. But let's not forget they beat a #1 ranked Miami, barely lost to Washington, lost to their Rival Michigan State, lost by 2 points to Purdue, and played Ohio State close. The only really bad loss was to #18 Iowa, where they were shut out.

    They were a few breaks away from being 8-3, 9-2 going into that game. Obviously, great teams win close games, but my point is, Michigan wasn't just a slouch, crappy opponent. As I recall, they also had a couple of injuries that really hurt them in the middle of the season and they were at full strength for the bowl (not sure on that one and I'm not invested enough to look it up).

    In any case, they beat a solid Michigan team and then were voted National Champions by every poll that is important. Unfortunately that year, they lost out on the SOS National Championship. Oh well, maybe next time!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 1, 2014 4:20 p.m.

    @spokaneute

    "One poor BYU fan had to go all the way back to 1967"

    One BYu fan did not have to go back to 1967, that is just where the NFL draft list went to. For your sake let's reduce the time frame and go to say, oh, 1990 which basically coincides with utah become a semi decent program instead of the abysmally awful program it has always been previous to that.

    Since that time utah has had 48 players drafted into the NFL, BYU had had 44 players hmmm..... seems fairly even.

    But of course I'm sure you'll find some sort of reason why that isn't legitimate won't you? Poor little utah "fans" just can't handle the truth and instead have to try to falsify it to fit their own delusional narrative. lol

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 1, 2014 5:00 p.m.

    BigDaddyCoug

    If Michigan would have won those games, they would have been in the Rose Bowl; certainly not playing BYU in the Holiday Bowl. Michigan was far from a "solid team". It was Bo Schembelcher's worst team in his 21 years in Ann Arbor. As of 2008, it was the only Michigan team since 1967 (over 40 years) to finish without a winning record. You can "almost" and "barely" all you want; but the facts are the facts. Oh well, keep it real Big Daddy and have a good evening.

    ChristineBwhoever

    Your screen name eliminates you from a response on the issue, and eliminates all credibility.

    Everyone have a good evening. Well, almost everyone...

    8-)

  • Christine B. Hedgefog Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2014 5:36 p.m.

    Spokane "but the facts are the facts"

    Thanks for finally agreeing. The facts are that a consensus national championship banner and trophy are in Provo, much to the dismay of the little red engine that could. All the asterisks are coming from up on the hill. None are to be found in official records. Facts, no?

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2014 5:38 p.m.

    "body of work over time" is a terrible argument. Each season is unique and independent of the season past. The fact that body of work over the past five years was a factor doesn't provide legitimacy of the NC. It just shows how ridiculous and flawed the college football system was.

  • 1978 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2014 6:08 p.m.

    @Spokane Ute

    No team has probably beaten a weaker opponent in a bowl game when they won a national championship than BYU did in 1984. As you correctly pointed out it was not BYU's fault. They wanted to play either Nebraska or Washington but they weren't willing to play in the Holiday Bowl to show how "weak" BYU was.

    Now I have a question: How many national championship teams finished with a 24 game winning streak including 4 victories (all on the road) over ranked teams. One of those teams was the PAC10 champion and Rose bowl champion UCLA. In fact UCLA beat the Big10 champions that same season 45 - 9 in the Rose Bowl.

    This is how it works: You develop credibility by consistently beating ranked teams, and weak teams as well, at home and on the road over multiple seasons then you get rewarded as BYU did. Most Utah fans intentionally forget everything associated with that national championship except the final game.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 1, 2014 6:18 p.m.

    @2fer

    Great point, so let's look at what BYU did in 1984 that no one else did. 12-0

    Pretty much sums it up no matter what jealous utah "fans" think.

    BYU is the NCAA College Football National CHAMPION for 1984. Unanimously. Just the facts nothing else matters.

    utah will never be the NCAA College Football National Champion ever, under any system, at any time, no matter what.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    July 1, 2014 6:38 p.m.

    It is not BYU's fault they didn't get to play some good college football teams in '84. Even in their lower-tier bowl game. They had a contractual obligation. What a bad system.

    It's nice that they beat all those bad teams, but can anyone name a "National Champion" in any college sport that never beat even one other team in the top 20? Seems very strange, and certainly wouldn't have the distinction of National Champion by today's standards, in any sport.

    A few BYU fans have finally started to admit that on these boards. The quarterback of the team, Robbie Bosco, admitted it some time ago:

    By today's standards "we would have been 4th or 5th." -Robbie Bosco

    "If strength of schedule had mattered as much then, BYU would not have been considered National Champions." -Sports Illustrated

    Before you tell me in all caps that they have a crystal football, I know. No one is saying they don't.

    Sorry, these are just facts.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2014 6:46 p.m.

    It's tough to say because we can't really know if BYU was the best team that year. I think they might've been but for various reasons (that were largely if not entirely not BYUs fault) they didn't get a top tier opponent for a bowl game. If they would've beaten a top 5 team in a bowl game that would've solidified it better rather than leaving uncertainty.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 1, 2014 6:49 p.m.

    byu fan can clamor about random Ws over lengthy periods-of-time, w/cake-walk games played in between, yet every one of their schedules has been weak-sauce when considering the fact they've never ever in their history played against a big boy schedule w/a week in, week out/back-to-back-to-back grind, ever, literally.

    The U/TCU have had to go through a period-of-adjustment in dealing w/this reality, two schools byu can never beat....Imagine how byu would've fared against this sort of schedule both back in the early '80s/today....There'd be no New Mexico's, etc., mixed into a grueling P5 conference schedule, particulary in the two highest rated conferences last year--The PAC-12/SEC....byu'd get utterly smashed in this scenario....Not even bye-weeks/Idaho State/weeks to prepare for a coachless-UW mattered last season against U/WISC/ND/UW.

    I'm curious to know how many of those seasons back then consisted of beating a bunch of teams finishing ranked in any given season? How about these days? Any season comparable to the four schools we beat in '08 finishing ranked? Anybody?

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    July 2, 2014 7:25 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    Utah fans can clamor about random Ws over lengthy periods-of-time, w/cake-walk games played in between, yet every one of their schedules has been weak-sauce when considering the fact that they've never ever in their entire history accomplished anything of note against a big boy schedule.

    The Utes have never even qualified for a bowl after playing a Top 40 schedule.

    Not only that, but the Utes have almost no accomplishments against their weak-sauce schedules - only FIVE AP Top 25 finishes and only TWO 11+ win seasons in their history.

    BYU has more 11+ win, Top 25 seasons since 2006, than the Utes have had in their entire history.

    The Utes are the epitome of weak sauce.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 2, 2014 8:18 a.m.

    Mussingaround

    In 2008-2009, Utah beat 4 teams that were ranked in the final top 25 coaches poll, including #6 Alabama to finish the season. There schedule was ranked #56. Penn States was #55 and Arizona #57. BYU hasn't had a season that even comes close to that. Name one? Don't dance around the question. Show me a season where BYU did that and back it up with statistics. Wins vs ranked teams and caliber of bowl opponent. Oh, and tell me who has won the last 4 meetings? Who was ranked higher in the sagarin poll last year? Now who's sauce is weak?

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    July 2, 2014 8:22 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    "The U/TCU have had to go through a period-of-adjustment in dealing w/this reality..."

    LOL!

    Except for a couple of flash-in-the-pan seasons, when have the Utes ever been competitive on a national scale against any schedule, let alone a "big boy" schedule?

    Face it, 4-5, 3-6, 2-7 seasons with no bowls are the new norm for Utah.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    July 2, 2014 8:31 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 17, Bronco 4
    Utah 5, Kyle 2

    If the Utes were even half as good as you like to pretend they were, Utah would have had more than 5 AP rankings and Kyle would have had more than 2 in their entire history.

    Face it, Utah is nothing but a one-trick pony that got lucky in winning several close games against ranked teams, NONE on the road.

    Obviously, the poll voters weren't nearly as impressed with Utah 2008, as Utah fans were.

    In fact, the Coaches only ranked the Utes #4, only one place higher than BYU's 1996 14-1 Cotton Bowl winning team.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 2, 2014 9:42 a.m.

    @spokaneute

    #56 ranked schedule huh?

    meh.

    The schedule is ranked what the schedule is ranked even though utah "fans" like to try to pretend it is something more than it is when in fact it is a very average #56. So.....congratulations?

    As 2fer pointed out each season is a season unto itself and in 2004 and 2008 utah was not the best team and did not even deserve consideration for best team because what some other teams did those seasons was considered far more impressive.

    But in 1984 nobody did anything that was considered more impressive than what BYU did, no one, hence every single major organization that awards the National Championship awarding it to BYU.

    utah "fans" can go on and on about BYU's scheudle, undeserving, blah, blah, blah, but the fact is that in the 1984 season taken as a whole NO ONE else did anything that stood out to the judges more than what BYU did. For that season BYU's accomplishments were graded as the best of anyones and therefor they are the National Champions for that year from then until forever.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 2, 2014 9:57 a.m.

    scenic view, rockwell, etc.

    I'm simply comparing Utah's 2008 season to BYU's 1984. I guess the 2004 season and 10 straight bowl victories equate to a "1 trick poney"? Yeah right. Why didn't you compare Bronco's head to head record vs. Kyle? Now that's curious? Even when the Ute program is down; BYu still can't beat them. How sad, but very true.

    By the way, you can't use Caps when you get angry; it's against the rules.

  • B C Park City, UT
    July 2, 2014 10:12 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "I'm simply comparing Utah's 2008 season to BYU's 1984."

    Why?

    Neither BYU nor Utah had any control over how the teams they played against performed throughout the season. The only thing BYU and Utah had control over is how they performed against their competition.

    Judging a team by the schedule they played is as foolish as judging an individual player by the team he played on.

    As Duckhunter said, BYU's overall performance in 1984 was judged superior to the performance of any other team in 1984.

    Utah's overall performance in 2008 was judged inferior to the performance of one team in the AP and several teams in the Coaches.

    Trying to compare teams from different seasons is a completely pointless exercise.

    There's absolutely no way of proving which team would win if BYU 1984 lined up against Utah 2008.

    Regardless of how you slice it, however, BYU's overall success in 1984 was superior to Utah's overall success in 2008.

    #1 > #2

    Always has been; always will be.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    July 2, 2014 10:23 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Some people simply use caps for EMPHASIS; they have nothing to do with ANGER.

    "Why didn't you compare Bronco's head to head record vs. Kyle?"

    Why are Utah fans so obsessed with comparing one game in a 12 to 15 game season, instead of comparing overall results?

    The answer is simply.

    The Utes are great at putting all of their effort into one or two games per year; but struggle to maintain that level of effort throughout an entire season.

    What other explanation can you give for the Utes only winning 6 WAC/MWC championships in the last 50 years, only having 2 11+ win seasons in their entire history, or only being ranked in the AP poll 5 times.

    Even in 1994, with a Top 10 finish and wins over several ranked teams, the Utes fell short of winning a conference championship because they couldn't beat lowly New Mexico.

    11+ win, Top 15 finishes
    Bronco 3
    Kyle 1

    Whether you want to admit it or not, Utah is a one-trip pony.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 2, 2014 10:47 a.m.

    At B C,

    Why not? It's an interesting comparison. It's certainly a lively topic. I scroll over Duck Hunters comments and could care less what he says or his opinion. I have ignored his comments for quite some time. Yes, neither team controlled where they ended up; that was the system. Of course BYU finished ranked higher, yet Utah played a much tougher schedule and bowl opponent. Right?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 2, 2014 10:47 a.m.

    anti BCS

    Sorry, but Caps are against the rules of this forum. I'm looking at recent history but if you chose to go back further so be it. You can spin Bronco vs Kyle any way you want; but Bronco can't beat BYU. He know's it and his player know it. Utah is in BYU's head. Even on a down year they find a way to beat the nomad from down south. I've already stated my case regarding "one trick poney". We can simply agree to disagree. So now that the BCS is gone, you need to change your name to anti Utah. It would certainly be more accurate. Speaking of BCS, care to compare BSC bowl victories between the two schools? That one is simple 2>0

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    July 2, 2014 11:11 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "Sorry, but Caps are against the rules of this forum."

    Nope!

    3. No ALL CAPS shouting, overuse of punctuation or short “ditto” comments.

    "Of course BYU finished ranked higher, yet Utah played a much tougher schedule and bowl opponent."

    Utah playing a tougher schedule and bowl opponent doesn't prove that Utah was a better team.

    Poll voters take into account a myriad of factors - SOS, overall record, good wins, bad losses, home wins, road wins, the list goes on and on. Then they compare other teams using those same factors.

    After considering all of those factors, they ranked the teams #1 through #20 (1984) or #25 (2008).

    Utah 2008 playing a tougher schedule wasn't as impressive to the voters as BYU 1984 playing an easier schedule - the proof is in the final standings, and the final standings are the final word on the overall success of each team in a given season.

    Bottom line:

    #1/#1 BYU was more successful in 1984, than #2/#4 Utah was in 2008.

    Crystal Football Trophy > Sugar Bowl Trophy

    I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand.

  • 1978 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 2, 2014 11:18 a.m.

    @Spokane Ute:

    Let me make this very simple. The coaches and sportswriters who voted BYU as the consensus national champions took everything into account including what happened in the events leading up to their undefeated season.

    BYU's 1983+1984 season >>>>> Utah's 2007+2008 season and it really isn't even close.

    i.e. BYU's road victory over UCLA (their only home loss that season) in 1983 is more impressive than Utah's 27-0 loss to a 2-10 UNLV in 2007.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    July 2, 2014 11:21 a.m.

    @mussing

    "The Utes are the epitome of weak sauce."

    How does it feel to get beat by the Utes year after year after year after year?

    I don't need to look further than your username to see that 'weak sauce' has a bitter taste.

    lol

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    July 2, 2014 11:28 a.m.

    @1978

    "i.e. BYU's road victory over UCLA (their only home loss that season) in 1983 is more impressive than Utah's 27-0 loss to a 2-10 UNLV in 2007."

    You know you're in trouble when you're reaching back to previous seasons to justify a Championship that is awarded based on one season's accomplishments.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    July 2, 2014 11:30 a.m.

    "How does it feel to get beat by the Utes..."

    Probably the same as it felt for the Utes losing to BYU 3 of 4 seasons, from 2006 to 2009, and 18 of 20, from 1972 to 1991.

    The biggest difference between the two programs is BYU doesn't base the success of its entire season on beating Utah.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    July 2, 2014 11:43 a.m.

    @ND95CA

    "The biggest difference between the two programs is BYU doesn't base the success of its entire season on beating Utah."

    Of course not, it's only your "super bowl!"

    By the way, thanks for the ancient history lesson.

    lol

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 2, 2014 11:48 a.m.

    At 1978

    So your vicories the previous year, count toward next years season? Awesome, so Utah will get credit next year for the win over Stanford last year. Each season stands on it's own merit, so we can agree to disagree. Utah's resume in 2008 > 1984. I would be willing to bet that any one who isn't a BYU Homer would agree.

    Lonestar

    Thanks for the clarification. I have always understood the ranking just stating the Fact that Utah won more games, played a tougher schedule and played a tougher bowl opponent than BYU did. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

    ND95CA

    It's hard to base a season on beating a team, when you haven't beaten them in the last 4 years. Nice job of hand picking your time frame though. That's awesome. Make it simple, go back 5 years, or 10 years.

    Truth Sandwich

    The truch seems to be a bitter pill to swallow for the folks down south, but thanks for stating it!

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    July 2, 2014 12:46 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    It's hard to base your season on overall success when you have so little of it.

    By the time Utah cracked the AP poll for the very first time, in 1994, BYU had already been ranked in the AP poll eleven times - that's more than double the number of times the Utes have been ranked in their entire history; and that was 20 years ago.

    ---------------

    mistruthsandwich

    KVN called it his "super bowl"; you've never heard that sentiment expressed by BYU's fan base.

    Pick whatever time frame helps you sleep at night; BYU has dominated U in the national rankings.

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 17, Bronco 4
    Utah 5, Kyle 2

    btw, BYU has owned the BYU/Utah series since the 70's; it's laughable that we never see Utah fans post that comparison.

  • 1978 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 2, 2014 12:49 p.m.

    @Spokane Ute

    Yes your "vicories" from the previous season do count toward building your resume for the following year but so do your losses. Thus your Stanford win must be combined with your 7 losses.

    If your 2008 season was the peak of many great years or even two great years coaches and sportswriters would have given Utah more respect. Unfortunately for Utah fans it was a flash in the pan.

    Look at the bright side you may not have a National championship or Heismann trophy but I am sure you can order more PAC12 stickers anytime you want. I heard a rumor that demand for those things went up 1000% after Utah joined the conference.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    July 2, 2014 1:10 p.m.

    @Spokane Ute

    "Utah's resume in 2008 > 1984. I would be willing to bet that anyone who isn't a BYU Homer would agree."

    There's no question. And truth be told, most BYU fans I know freely admit this. There are still a few Y fans on this board however, passionately defending 84 as being a more impressive or a "more legit" season than 2008. It's an argument that falls apart very quickly.

    We are comparing two seasons:

    A) Beating 4 end of season ranked teams, 2 end of season top 10 teams, and smacking Alabama in the South in a BCS Bowl.

    B) Beating the worst teams in college football, worst strength of schedule in the country, and barely beating a bad bowl opponent.

    You'd have to be wearing some very thick blue glasses to not see that A is a far more impressive season than B.

    It's nice that the 84 BYU team was awarded a "championship", but it would not be close to a National Championship in 2008, the year of Utah's undefeated BCS run.

    By today's standards "we would have finished 4th or 5th."

    -Robbie Bosco, speaking obvious truth

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    July 2, 2014 1:27 p.m.

    @DeepBlue

    "BYU has owned the BYU/Utah series since the 70's; it's laughable that we never see Utah fans post that comparison."

    Utah owns BYU in the overall series, as well as in the current or modern era. Isn't it more laughable that you have to pick a specific time frame from ancient history to feel better about the series?

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    July 2, 2014 1:36 p.m.

    truthsandwich

    BYU's resume 1979 to 1985 >>>> Utah's resume 2003 to 2008

    Which is why BYU was positioned to be a national championship contender in 1984, and why Utah was never in the discussion in 2008.

    By today's standards (a four-team playoff), the #1 ranked team in both the AP and Coaches polls would have been a shoo-in to be included in the playoffs.

    Utah 2008, ranked 6th in the final BCS standings, wouldn't have even been considered for the playoffs.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    July 2, 2014 1:47 p.m.

    truthsandwich

    It's laughable that U have to go back to the leather helmet era when Utah had a 30-year head-start on BYU just to feel good about yourself. BYU didn't have a single four-year player on their roster until 1925.

    Let's also not forget, that BYU also suspended their program for 3 years, during WWII, while Utah continued playing continuously from 1894 to today.

    A 30-year head start and another break where BYU had to completely rebuild their program explains a lot about Utah's early dominance.

    Since BYU and Utah joined the WAC in 1962 and began competing on relatively even footing, BYU has dominated the series and overall accomplishments.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 2, 2014 2:15 p.m.

    1978

    Yes, and look at your bright side. You can order more Miami Beach Blanket Bowl Stickers. That's where you will be regardless of winning 6, 8 or 10 games. It must be rough sitting at the kids table.

    Why can't you muster up the courage to answer my quetions:
    1) Name a team that has played a worse schedule and won the NC?
    2) Name a team that has played a weaker bowl opponent than a pathetic 6-5 Michigan team to win the NC?

    On futher thought, yes BYU won the NC by default. They didn't play anyone of note to earn it. I know the truth hurts but that's exactly what it is. I guess it's better to peak in 2008 then 1984. How sad, how truely sad.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    July 2, 2014 2:24 p.m.

    truthsandwich

    Utah fan's love misquoting Bosco's comment out of context, as if his statement actually proves something, when, in fact, "there's no way" that Bosco could possibly know where BYU would have finished "by today's standards".

    When he was asked immediately after the Holiday Bowl if he felt that BYU deserved to be #1, he replied emphatically, "YES"!

    38 AP sportswriters and the majority of coaches in the Coaches poll agreed with Bosco in 1984.

    -------------

    btw, "by today's standards", Utah's 1944 basketball team wouldn't have even been invited to the 1944 NCAA tournament.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 2, 2014 2:24 p.m.

    DeepBlue

    You are all over the map. 2008 is slightly more recent then 1984. You are talking about Utah fans and leather helmets, yet you reference 1925 and 1962. Come on guy, you can do better than that can't you? Calm down and remember, the Beach Blanket Bowl and a game vs. Middle Kentucky Bible school awaits at seasons end.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    July 2, 2014 2:42 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "It must be rough sitting at the kids table."

    Isn't that what the Utes have been doing since joining the PAC?

    Either that, or the couch.

    ------------

    btw, the only one who needs to "calm down" here is the one who keeps spamming about how angry and upset everyone else is. When everyone else seems to have a problem, the problem usually isn't everyone else.

    ------------

    btw2, DeepBlue's explanation for Utah's early dominance in the series was perfectly reasonable and well thought out.

    Anybody who is familiar with college football knows how devastating the "death penalty" was to SMU's football program - more than 20 years later, the Mustangs still haven't recovered.

    Now imagine Utah suspending its program for the next 30 years. How long would it take for Utah to become competitive with BYU? Now imagine what would happen if Utah then suspended its program for another 3 years. How long would it take for Utah to rebuild its program again?

    That explains alot about the competitive imbalance between the two programs from 1922 to 1961.

    After 40 years of dominance, what was Utah's excuse for tanking the next 30 years?

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    July 2, 2014 2:47 p.m.

    "Beach Blanket Bowl and a game vs. Middle Kentucky Bible school"???

    Gotta luv how Utah fans are forced to resort to childish name calling when they finally realize that they've lost yet another argument.

    While BYU fans are enjoying a major bowl or basking in the Miami sun, Utah fans will once again be relaxing on their couches during bowl week.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 2, 2014 2:47 p.m.

    I see every byu fan on here has conveniently evaded me on my previous comments and failed to address my irrefutable facts straight on....I can't imagine what life's like looking in from the outside and looking at a schedule which includes in November a bye-week before facing juggernauts UNLV/Savannah State at home, then traveling to face the worst PAC-12 team since winless UW, which also was a byu opponent they barely got by! I'll die laughing, should byu do as they typically do against a PAC-12 opponent they play at random and loses this particular game! Lol

    p.s. U may believe spinning facts, which equates to telling outright lies, is somehow the exception to the law, but dishonesty runs directly contrary to the tenants of byu's owner....Food-for-thought.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 2, 2014 2:58 p.m.

    "While BYU fans are enjoying a major bowl or basking in the Miami sun, Utah fans will once again be relaxing on their couches during bowl week."

    Which major bowl game has byu ever played in? No, neither the holiday bowl nor the cotton bowl qualify....byu could go undefeated in '14 and would not qualify for one based upon the palpable weakness of their schedule.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 2, 2014 3:03 p.m.

    AZUTE and Truth Sandwitch

    Have a good evening and a great Holiday. Notice that none of these BYU fans had the nerve or courage to answer my two simple questions:

    1) Name a National Champion that had an easier schedule than BYU's 1984 team?
    2) Name a National Champion that that played a weaker team then 6-5 Michigan to win the NC?

    I guess the non-response pretty much tells the tale.

    Take Care Gents!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 2, 2014 3:04 p.m.

    Riddles in the Dark

    The Miami Beach or Kraft Fight Hunger a major bowl game? Oh my goodness. It might be time to turn on the lights.

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    July 2, 2014 3:12 p.m.

    I can't imagine what life's like looking forward to another season-ending pillow fight in the rockies and then spending my third straight bowl week on the couch watching my rival play in their 10th straight bowl game, something my school has never accomplished.

    I can't imagine what it's like rooting for a team that's only had 5 AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history, none before 1994.

    I can't imagine what it's like trying to demean accomplishments of my rival that I know are beyond the reach of my own program in my wildest dreams.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    July 2, 2014 3:30 p.m.

    @DeepBlue

    "It's laughable that U have to go back to the leather helmet era when Utah had a 30-year head-start on BYU just to feel good"

    Nope, I don't have to do that at all. I only need to look at the last year. Or the last five years, ten, twenty, take your pick.

    You were the one who started reaching back in time to the 70's, remember?

    How frantic and emotional of you.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    July 2, 2014 4:17 p.m.

    @Spokane Ute

    I'm still curious to hear of any team from ANY major college sport that was awarded the distinction of "National Champion" without proving themselves against even one other team in the top twenty of their sport.

    Pretty ridiculous.

    Have a great holiday weekend brother!

  • BigDaddyCoug SARATOGA SPRINGS, UT
    July 2, 2014 4:22 p.m.

    Would everyone please stop using the phrase 'frantic and emotional?' It really makes you look childish. No one is frantic and most of us are guys, which means we aren't very emotional anyway. Just ask my wife!

    Please give it a rest. No one is winning this debate!

    I can't imagine anyone here would dispute that BYU played a weak schedule in 1984. We all know they did. We all know that Michigan was 6-5. So what? BYU played the hand they were dealt and one. There are a lot of people that didn't like it. Is that really a big surprise to any of you geniuses. If it isn't clear by now, the powerhouses don't like to get beat, share the limelight, or the money.

    The polls all agreed who was the most deserving. Would they today? Who knows? Everything was different back then. I'm sure a lot of things would be different if we did them all over again.

    Utah had a couple of really great seasons. I was right there cheering them on, even though I'm a die hard BYU guy. It was awesome. Better than 1984? Not to me.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    July 2, 2014 4:58 p.m.

    @ Little Brother

    "I can't imagine what it's like rooting for a team that's only had 5 AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history, none before 1994."

    It's been very exciting, especially in the past ten years. We've watched our team go into the south and seal club Alabama in front of the nation in a BCS bowl game. We've won two BCS bowl games and joined the greatest conference in college sports. Really, it's been a fantastic decade to be a Utah fan.

    I can't imagine what it's like cheering for a team that's never even earned a spot in a major bowl.

    Ever.

  • TrollPolice Salt Lake City, UT
    July 2, 2014 4:59 p.m.

    Dear Trolls,

    Crystal Football National Championship Trophy > Sugar Bowl Trophy

    No reasonable fan would even think of disputing that fact.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 2, 2014 5:30 p.m.

    BYU 1979 to 1984
    #13/#12 11-1 WAC Champion
    #12/#12 12-1 WAC Champion
    #13/#11 11-2 WAC Champion
    unranked 8-4 WAC Champion
    #7/#7 11-1 WAC Champion
    #1/#1 13-0 WAC Champion, National Champion

    Utah 2003 to 2008
    #21/#21 10-2 MWC Champion
    #4/#5 12-0 MWC Champion
    unranked 7-5
    unranked 8-5
    unranked 9-4
    #2/#4 13-0 MWC Champion

    Summary
    BYU(66-9) - SIX head-to-head wins, FIVE Top 12 Finishes, TWO Top 7 Finishes, FIVE 11+ Win Seasons, SIX Conference Championships, ONE National Championship

    Utah(59-16) - FOUR head-to-head wins, TWO Top 12 Finishes, TWO Top 5 Finishes, TWO 11+ Win Seasons, THREE Conference Championship

    It's easy to see why BYU 1984 was a national championship contender and why Utah 2008 was never in the discussion.

    ----------

    Comparing Heydays

    BYU had TWO 11+ Win, Top 15 finishes, THREE AP Top 25 finishes, and played in FOUR bowl games during Utah's heyday.

    Utah only had TWO winning seasons and never even sniffed a national ranking or a bowl during BYU's heyday.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    July 2, 2014 5:39 p.m.

    "We've... joined the greatest conference in college sports..."

    and the only thing you've got to show for it is proof that you don't belong.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    July 2, 2014 5:42 p.m.

    untruthsandwich

    BYU 1984 more than earned a spot in a major bowl, they earned a spot in the national championship game. Unfortunately, BYU was contractually bound to play that game in the Holiday Bowl.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 3, 2014 7:39 p.m.

    @Bluto

    The result of Utah finishing in top 6 in 2004, busting the BCS, thumping AP #25 Pitt resulted in the rule change from top 6, that BYU help create, to top 12:

    “Prior to 2005, non-BCS schools had to finish in the top six to get an automatic berth. That meant the likes of Tulane (12-0, No. 10 in 1998) and Marshall (13-0, No. 12 in 1999) didn't get a shot. Utah did break through, finishing sixth in 2004.

    It took the threat of Congressional intervention for the qualification standards to be loosened prior to the 2005 season. Since then [TCU, Boise State, and NOT BYU] have taken advantage of the top 12 threshold to cash in on lucrative BCS paydays.”

    Source:
    Guarantee for non-BCS schools is no molehill for Mountain West duo
    Dennis Dodd (CBS Sports)

    You welcome!

    Although, it seems top 12 was even too much for BYU, since the only thing you have to show on your BCS resume is 50,000 Quest t-shirts and one airport celebration for a 1-0 Quest.

  • BYU Joe MISSION VIEJO, CA
    July 3, 2014 10:08 p.m.

    Sometimes Cinderella teams win. They are not the best - but are just the last man standing. That's what happened in 1984. Under the rules and process of the day BYU was given the title. The AP voted that way, the UPI voted it that way and it stays that way.

    None of you that complain had a vote - your opinion did not matter. BYU kept winning while other teams kept losing. They where the only ranked team with a perfect record that year - that was the standard back then.

    The only down side to that title is we have been waiting for another ever since - and its not likely to happen anytime soon. Not because of who we are but because it happens to only one team a year - its hard enough to remain perfect and its made even harder now.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 3, 2014 11:18 p.m.

    Uteology

    Yet with all of Utah's "bcs accomplishments", the closest the Utes have ever gotten to a Crystal Football National Championship Trophy was a 4th place finish in 2008, barely better than BYU's 5th place finish in 1996, and not even close to BYU's 1st place finish in 1984.

    Regardless of how you spin it,

    Waterford Crystal Football National Championship Trophy > Sugar Bowl Trophy

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 4, 2014 7:53 a.m.

    What occurred in 1984 is these human voters committed a colossal error by ranking Pitt as high as they did so when byu barely beat them they vaulted up in the rankings because everybody believed Pitt was something they weren't....When OU hit town a couple of weeks later and curb-stomped Pitt on their homefield, everybody saw Pitt for what they were, a terrible team, and by then it was too late to reverse their second error of ranking byu so high, that is if these voters wanted to maintain a modicum of integrity.

    byu's drastic rise in the polls was a domino-effect, rooted in one enormously collosal error originated in Pitt's preseason ranking, period, end-of-story.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    July 4, 2014 11:03 a.m.

    BYU's "drastic" rise in the polls was fueled by the fact that BYU had finished in the Top 12 more times in the preceding 5 seasons than the Utes have in their entire history.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 4, 2014 3:39 p.m.

    "BYU's 'drastic' rise in the polls was fueled by the fact that BYU had finished in the Top 12 more times in the preceding 5 seasons"

    Incorrect....In the ap poll, byu went from preseason unranked to #13, following their W over Pitt....Therefore, my point stands.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    July 4, 2014 8:33 p.m.

    @Uteology

    From the USA Today...
    Utah ranked preseason #66

    "Utah hasn't ceded control of the division to Arizona State, USC and UCLA; the Utes never owned it, nor made even a halfhearted run at the Rose Bowl during the program's three seasons in the Pac-12. The Utes simply came, saw and were conquered, quickly becoming to the South Division's elite what California and Washington State have been to the North".

    Just as we predicted...Utah = Washington State...Go WazzUtes!

    It's official, this is how Utah football is perceived around the country.
    BYU now and will always have True Legacy and a National Brand.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 4, 2014 8:41 p.m.

    @Uteanymous
    Salt Lake City, Utah

    Uteology

    Yet with all of Utah's "bcs accomplishments", the closest the Utes have ever gotten to a Crystal Football National Championship Trophy was a 4th place finish in 2008,

    --------

    Nope.

    The closest that ANY mid-major has come to a national championship trophy under BCS rules was Utah in 2008 when we finished AP #2 with 16 first place votes in 2008. The 2nd best mid-major team under same rules was #2 TCU in 2010 with 4 first place votes.

    Thanks for trying.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 4, 2014 8:48 p.m.

    Uteanymous
    Salt Lake City, Utah

    Uteology

    Yet with all of Utah's "bcs accomplishments", the closest the Utes have ever gotten to a Crystal Football National Championship Trophy was a 4th place finish in 2008, barely better than BYU's 5th place finish in 1996, and not even close to BYU's 1st place finish in 1984.

    ------------------

    Robbie Bosco disagrees:

    "With the way the [BCS] system is now, there's no question we wouldn't have been No. 1. We probably would have gone to a better bowl, and that would have been great, but there would have been four teams higher than us in the polls." -- Robbie Bosco

    “That's essentially what happened last season to BYU's rival, Utah, which finished its regular season unbeaten but never rose higher than No. 6 in the BCS standings. The Utes earned a lucrative trip to the Sugar Bowl, but despite stunning SEC runner-up Alabama, had to settle for No. 2 in the final AP poll [16 votes] behind 13-1 Florida, which toppled 12-2 Oklahoma in the BCS Championship Game.” -- SI

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 4, 2014 11:35 p.m.

    Uteology

    "The closest that ANY mid-major has come to a national championship trophy under bcs rules was Utah in 2008 when we finished AP #2 with 16 first place votes in 2008."

    LOL at your FALSE claim.

    Utah fans keep mixing and matching rules to suit their own biased narrative, but the truth is, the AP poll, which you cite, has absolutely NOTHING to do with the "bcs rules", in fact, the AP FORBIDS the bcs from using their poll.

    The 2003 AP national champion didn't play in the bcs championship, which, in theory, is supposed to crown the national champion, but in reality, it only crowns the bcs champion.

    In the final Coaches poll, which is the official final poll under the "bcs rules", the Utes have never finished higher than 4th.

    ---------

    btw, the closest that ANY mid-major has come to a national championship trophy "under bcs rules" was TCU, in 2010, which finished #2 in BOTH the AP and (under bcs rules) the Coaches poll.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 4, 2014 11:40 p.m.

    I respect Bosco, but his statement is nothing but an opinion.

    When asked immediately after the BYU-Michigan game if he thought BYU deserved to be #1, he answered emphatically, "YES"!

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    July 5, 2014 11:44 a.m.

    @byujoe

    "Sometimes Cinderella teams win. They're not the best- just the last man standing. That's what happened in 1984."

    BYU was the last man standing because they were standing on the sidelines of major college football beating the weakest schedule in the country, while the big boys were playing and beating each other.

    "BYU kept winning.."

    Against nobody

    "..while everyone else kept losing."

    Washington only lost once, to Pac10 champ USC, a much tougher opponent than BYU ever faced. They also dominated Michigan in Ann Arbor (20-3 until the final seconds of garbage time) with Michigan's starting QB. BYU struggled to come from behind against Michigan with an injured backup QB in San Diego.

    "They where the only ranked team with a perfect record that year - that was the standard back then."

    Agreed. Back then. This caused college football to realize how ridiculous that standard was, and undergo drastic changes. It would not be close to a National Championship in modern times.

    By today's standard "there's no question we wouldn't have been #1. There would have been four teams higher than us in the polls." -Robbie Bosco

    Truth.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    July 5, 2014 6:23 p.m.

    truthsandwich

    Distorted truth.

    Washington was invited to play #1 BYU in the Holiday Bowl for a chance to win a national championships, but instead wimped out and chose to play a lower-ranked team.

    The Huskies beat Michigan by close to the same score BYU beat Michigan, 20-11 versus 24-17.

    Unlike Utah 2004, BYU played a regular season opponent, Air Force(8-4) on the road, that finished in the top 25, #24 in the final AP poll, higher than Utah the #25 Pittsburgh team Utah played in the Fiesta Bowl, after only beating three regular season opponents with winning records, none with better than a 7-5 record.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    July 5, 2014 9:45 p.m.

    @ DeepBlue

    Thank you for giving your post an appropriate title and for not refuting anything I said.

    I'm not sure why you're trying to compare 84 BYU's schedule and season to a team that wasn't awarded a National Championship (that alone speaks volumes) but it's still a losing battle.

    "Unlike Utah 2004, BYU played a regular season opponent, Air Force(8-4) on the road, that finished in the top 25"

    And unlike BYU '84, Utah played an BCS Bowl opponent, Pitt, that finished in the top 25.

    In addition to winning a Major Bowl, Utah also played a more difficult strength of schedule (67) compared to BYU (96 out of 98 teams. Goodness)

    Utah also handled their schedule in a much more impressive fashion. While BYU barely eked out several wins, including their weak bowl opponent, Utah never won a game by less than two touchdowns, including a 35-7 route in their BCS Bowl.

    Comparing the 84 schedule and performance with 2004 did't work out very well for you. Can you imagine if you'd brought up 2008?

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    July 6, 2014 8:57 a.m.

    The concept that our jealous little friend from the hill fails to grasp is that factors like SOS, "major bowl" and "bcs bowl opponent" are only stepping stones toward reaching the ultimate goal, which is achieving a #1 ranking in the final polls and winning a national championship.

    It's interesting that Utah fans have become so obsessed with comparing schedules, when schedules are only a means to an end goal, not the end goal itself.

    The fact that you would rather compare schedules, than final rankings, says more about how pathetic and weak your program has been historically than you realize.

    Finishing #1 in the final poll is and always will be the ultimate goal.

    Any fan who claims that any secondary achievement is superior to the ultimate achievement is only fooling themselves.

    Crystal Football National Championship Trophy > Sugar Bowl Trophy

  • Chamberlain Salt Lake City, UT
    July 6, 2014 12:11 p.m.

    Here's a comparison that might help truthsandwich understand the concept here.

    Every four years the world holds a sporting event called the Olympics.

    Every Olympics, swimmers compete in their chosen even for a gold medal.

    In 1972, Mark Spitz won seven gold medals, including the 100m Butterfly with a time of 54.27 seconds, which at the time was a World Record.

    In 2012, Michael Phelps won four gold medals, including the 100m Butterfly with a time of 51.21 seconds, which was slower than his gold-medal winning performances at the 2008 Olympics, 50.58 (OR) and his world record setting performance at the 2009 World Championships, 49.82 (WR).

    In every competition, Phelps earned a gold medal. In every competition, Phelps beat Spitz's 1972 Olympic gold medal winning time significantly.

    Do Phelps's achievements diminish Spitz's achievements?

    Absolutely NOT!

    Konrad Czerniak, the 8th place finisher in the 100m Butterfly final at the 2012 London Olympics finished with a time of 52.05 seconds, 0.17 seconds faster than Spitz's gold medal winning swim in 1972.

    Would any sports fan in his right mind ever try to argue that "by today's standard," Czerniak's achievement exceeded Spitz's achievement?

    Olympic Gold Medal > 8th place

    National Championship > 2nd or 4th place

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    July 6, 2014 1:35 p.m.

    @SportsFan

    "Finishing #1 in the final poll is and always will be the ultimate goal."

    Many BYU fans on these boards have attempted to justify the 84 season by comparing the schedule strength and season wins to Utah in 2004 or 2008. Inevitably when that argument falls on its face, they retreat to putting their fingers in their ears and simply repeating that they finished #1 in 84 over and over, as you have done.

    No one is saying that BYU didn't finish #1 back in 1984.

    People are only pointing out that extremely weak NC season wouldn't have put them at #1 in the modern era. From Sports Illustrated even to most BYU fans, nearly all football fans are capable of this common sense. Including this BYU fan right here:

    By today's standard "there's no question we wouldn't have been #1. There would have been four teams higher than us in the polls." -Robbie Bosco

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    July 6, 2014 5:06 p.m.

    truthsandwich

    "Many BYU fans on these boards have attempted to justify the 84 season... blah, blah"

    BYU fans don't need to "justify" anything to U.

    BYU is the proud owner of the Crystal Football National Championship Trophy for 1984, along with similar trophies / awards from a consensus of every major college football national championship selecting organization of the day.

    Proof positive that BYU was THE most deserving team to be selected 1984 National Championship.

    Regardless of how you try to spin it, BYU is and always will be a former National Champions, something the Utes can only dream of.

    As Chamberlain explained in his Spitz versus Phelps comparison, nothing that Phelps or any other Olympian subsequently accomplished in later Olympics will ever diminish what Spitz accomplished in 1972.

    By the same token, nothing that Utah has subsequently accomplished will ever diminish what BYU accomplished in 1984.

    Olympic Gold Medal > 8th place

    National Championship > 2nd or 4th place

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    July 6, 2014 5:21 p.m.

    Sorry to burst your jealous little crimson bubble distortedtruthsandwich, but an also ran bcs bowl trophy will always be several rungs down the ladder of the ultimate in major college football accomplishments.

  • phantomblade Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 6, 2014 8:22 p.m.

    truthsandwhich

    Who cares where BYU 1984 "would have" finished "by today's standards", based on nothing but personal opinion, the only thing that matters is where BYU did finish in 1984 - as consensus national champion.

    Call us when Utah wins their first national championship; until U can refer to yourselves as national champions, you have nothing that compares to that singular achievement.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    July 7, 2014 8:35 a.m.

    truthsandwich

    No matter how many times you spam Bosco's statement, it will never change these two facts:

    - BYU is the indisputable 1984 Major College Football National Champion

    - Bosco's statement is nothing but his own personal opinion, it doesn't prove anything