Maybe he will help them to get to 5-7 this year.
Welcome to Utah Thurm! Game on & you had me at hello. You have
Given the fact that last season we were just a few plays (INT's mostly)
away from 8-4 (OSU, UCLA and ASU), I'd say we easily surpass 5-7 this year.
Welcome to Utah, Kendal! Lower humidity and no tornadoes - a fringe benefit of
moving out West.I certainly hope for the best with Travis Wilson
from a health standpoint, and here's to excellent competition elevating all
the Utah QBs and getting them ready for a good season.
I hope it's not just more mediocrity at QB, it's been a major hole in
the Utes for the past few years.
Not exactly an impressive highlight film. And to think those were his best plays
while playing "garbage" minutes against Iowa State... yikes.How do you possibly expect to be competitive in the PAC-12 with your current
QB situation? If Wilson does not get the nod, Whittingham has very little in the
cupboard as far as experience goes. Of the 4 remaining QB options only 1 has
taken a meaningful snap and he is 1-4 as a starter with the single win coming
over Colorado. There is definitely talent though, so all hope is not lost. I hope your coaches can get things figured out so I can justify spending
the money to watch my Trojans beat you in a competitive game in person. Fight On!
Thanks for the well written article, Dirk. I can't wait to see what this
young man brings to the Utes! Welcome to Utah, Kendal!!Go Utes!
Not sold on this guy...Really hope on wrong.
Welcome and good luck!
I think is Wilson stays healthy a 7-5 record is very possible. But it very well
may be that Wilson gets passed up by Kendal or one of the other QB's. Will
be interesting to see how it shakes outgo UTES
@Down under"Maybe he will help them to get to 5-7 this year."0-4 still stings
Chris B,I hope your right about 7-5, but keep in mind the Utes may
very well end up with the #1 SOS nationally which would make 7-5 a very tall
It sounds like the Utes have taken cared of business as far as their q/b
situation is concerned. Hope all of this translate to a better showing this
year, especially within their own conference division. Their SOS is without a
doubt among the top in the nation, but it means nothing if they don't take
care of business. Hope this year will be the one for them to do it. I do
believe more coaching changes will occur if they don't, and Head Coach
KW's job will be seriously on the line. Then again, I maybe wrong, and I
hope I am because I do like him and hope he stays in Utah for a long time!From a diehard Cougar fan, Good luck Utes!
Too much of Daddy in this article and I wonder if that might be the reason he is
transferring in the first place. The young man is a college graduate and is the
father of a child. Let him speak for himself. The fact that he calls coming to
Utah a "business decision?" Whoo boy. Good luck to this new Ute and to
his family. I hope he has a good and productive two years on the hill.
It's been a long QB drought on the hill, every since Brian Johnson;
let's hope all the potential translates into quality play. I agree that
with the SOS a 7-5 record is a tall order, but if the team plays as the guys are
capable of playing, it is possible.
Wow. Its either feast or famine at the "U" in the quarterback
department. Maybe the "Utes" plan is to put in a new quarterback every
game or so to keep everyone off balance. If it works, everyone will be doing it
Wishing the best for Travis Wilson this year but I suspect Thompson will see the
field. Several scenarios for my comment:1- Wilson isn't medically
cleared and can't play.2- Thompson beats out all the other
QB's.3- Wilson is the starter but gets injured during the year.4- Offense is stagnant and we put in the backup QB and move to a spread.5- Well behind in a game and he gets in during mop up time to see if he can
bring a sparkI think the Utes can win six games this year and get to
a bowl game but the schedule is a killer. If Thompson moves ahead of Cox and
Manning, one of the above will happen at some point.
@KYUte"Given the fact that last season we were just a few plays
(INT's mostly) away from 8-4 (OSU, UCLA and ASU), I'd say we easily
surpass 5-7 this year."Do you realize that you were also a few
plays away from going 1-11 last year? (Utah St, BYU, Stanford, Colorado)Here is my prediction for utah this year:Non-conference-
they win their first 2 games and lose to Michigan. I think most people would
have to agree that a 2-1 start is a fair assumption.Conference- they
have gone from 4-5 to 3-6 to 2-7. I would say that with that trend, winning 1
game is a very real possibility.I will still give them 2, maybe 3
conference wins.Adding up conference play and non-conference play,
that gives them anywhere from a 3-9 to a 5-7 record.Meet in the
middle, and I predict a 4-8 record this year.I'm not saying a
bowl game is impossible, but I would say my reasoning for a 4-8 season is pretty
Tandj, noted. So what? He's a human being with a family.
TandJ"Note the comment in the article that he is coming to Salt
Lake with "his girlfriend and 2-year-old daughter."Why?
Darren RoweHeber City, UTI'm not saying a bowl game is
impossible, but I would say my reasoning for a 4-8 season is pretty fair.---------------For once I agree with you.2 OOC
wins and 2 or 3 conference wins is right where I have Utah this year.But most importantly, Whittingham's exit at the end of it all.Then next year Utah fans can get really optimistic with a new regime.
How cute Daddy's little Boy!
KYUte"Given the fact that last season we were just a few plays
(INT's mostly) away from 8-4 (OSU, UCLA and ASU), I'd say we easily
surpass 5-7 this year."U were also only a few plays away from
2-10. In addition the 7 losses U did have, U could have easily lost to Utah
State, Stanford, and BYU as well.I'd say your chances of
surpassing 5-7 are no better than 33%.Idaho State - winFresno
State - tossupMichigan - lossWashington St - tossupUCLA -
lossOregon St - lossUSC - lossArizona St - lossOregon -
lossStanford - lossArizona - tossupColorado - tossupIf U win ALL of your tossups, you'll finish 5-7.
Are all these people giving predictions the same ones rooting against Idaho
State, New Mexico State, Nevada, and other regional powerhouses every week as
What difference does this make? The utes will be home for the holidays!
Idaho State? Part of a tough schedule?
This is how I see the 2014 season:Idaho State - WinFresno
State - WinMichigan - WinWashington St - WinUCLA - Toss upOregon St - WinUSC - Toss upArizona St - Toss upOregon -
Toss upStanford - Toss upArizona - WinColorado - Win
KYUteYou're seriously saying that @Michigan and @Oregon St are
guaranteed wins, and UCLA, USC, Arizona St, Oregon, and Stanford are toss
ups???LOL!The crimson delusion never ceases to amaze.The Utes will have to get very lucky just to win ONE of those games.
@WhasnuThose are my predictions.- Michigan - We're
1-1 historically with our last meeting in The Big House being an easy W for the
Utes.- Oregon State - We beat ourselves last year with INT's and
Cooks is gone.- UCLA - Again, we beat ourselves last year with INT's
(6 INT's) and lost by 7.- USC - First game of 2013 without Wilson,
this year I'm calling it a toss up.- Arizona St - Lost it in the 4th
with back up QB.- Oregon - Replacing all of their receivers, we went toe
to toe until the 4th qtr last year with back up QB.- Stanford - Won last
year and they have lost a lot of good players on defense. Very much a toss
up.There is no delusion here, my 7-5 season is completely plausible.
Edit to previous post.-USC - Wilson was injured.
Looking at last year's 5-7 record, it is easy to forget how many close
games Utah lost. - 6 INT against UCLA and we only lost by a
touchdown- 1 point loss to Arizona St. who we were beating the entire game
until the very end- Overtime loss to Oregon St. If Utah makes
1 more play in all of those games it is an 8-4 season, possibly 9-4 with a bowl
win. And that's coming against the #3 SOS in the country. Utah was a good
time last year who couldn't finish 3 games.
KYUte"Michigan - We're 1-1 historically with our last
meeting in The Big House being an easy W for the Utes."LOL!You must have been watching a different game than the rest of us,
because the Utes barely squeaked out a win over one of the worst Michigan teams
in the last half century.After three full seasons in the PAC, the
Utes still haven't won a road game against PAC opponent with a winning
record.You lost games because you couldn't throw the ball, and
now you're heading into 2014 with the same injury-prone QB who may not even
be cleared to play, and a transfer who only completed 4 of 13 passes for 64
yards last season?Dream on!
"If Utah makes 1 more play in all of those games it is an 8-4
season..."It's funny how Utah fans mocked BYU fans in 2012
for saying the exact same thing...If BYU makes 1 more play against
Utah, Boise State, and Notre Dame, it's an 11-2, Top 10 season, with a road
win against one of the teams that played in the BCS championship game.
"You must have been watching a different game than the rest of us, because
the Utes barely squeaked out a win over one of the worst Michigan teams in the
last half century."I guess you've just discredited
byu's 1984 National Championship then.
Mussingaround,I never said anything about byu in my post. I was
just making an observation. I guess it was true for byu in 2012. byu failed to
make plays to win those games and Utah failed to make plays to win the games
last year. Although I don't remember byu having a chance to win the game at
the end against Notre Dame. Also, with the 2012 schedule byu played, a 2 loss
team would not have resulted in a top 10 finish. Weber St., Hawaii, Idaho,
KH"I guess you've just discredited BYU's 1984 National
Championship then."Nice try, but not even close.The
1984 Wolverines(6-6) were themselves national championship contenders early in
the season and were briefly ranked in the Top 10. If Michigan had beaten Ohio St
in their final regular season game, the Wolverines would have been playing in
the Rose Bowl, instead of the Holiday Bowl.The 2008 Wolverines(3-9)
finished 10th in the eleven team Big Ten with the worst record of any Michigan
team since 1963, yet the Utes barely slipped past Michigan 27-25 after Michigan
missed a potentially game winning FG attempt near the end of the game.The only thing ever remotely similar between Michigan 1984 and Michigan 2008
was the name of the school.
KH"with the 2012 schedule BYU played, a 2 loss team would not
have resulted in a top 10 finish."Going 3-2 against ranked
opponents, including road wins at Boise State and at Notre Dame, I wouldn't
be so sure that BYU couldn't have climbed into the Top 10 with a bowl win.
At the very least, BYU would have equaled their 2009 #12 ranking.
@KYUteYour last meeting with Michigan was not an easy win. It was a
2 point squeaker. Also, please realize that in 2008, utah had one of their 2
best teams EVER and Michigan had arguably their worst season EVER. The stars
aligned perfectly for utah to barely win.Yes, utah was competitive
with UCLA last year, but it was at home, and utah has an unusually big
difference in their home performance vs. their road performance. Plus UCLA is a
top 10 team this year.Stanford and Oregon? Please don't trick
yourself into thinking you have a good chance to beat them. Sure, you beat
Stanford last year. This is what we call an upset. utah is not in the same
ballpark as Stanford and Oregon.USC is a game that utah might be
able to pull out. I'll give you a toss up for that one.As for
Arizona State and Oregon State, they are road games. Unless utah dramatically
changes their road performance, we can assume those will be losses as well.
@mussingaround:"The 1984 Wolverines(6-6) were themselves
national championship contenders early in the season and were briefly ranked in
the Top 10. If Michigan had beaten Ohio St in their final regular season game,
the Wolverines would have been playing in the Rose Bowl, instead of the Holiday
Bowl."the 1984 Wolverines finished 7th of 10 BIG 10 teams (tied
for 6th with Michigan State who beat them). Had Michigan's quarterback, Jim
Harbaugh not been injured, would BYU have beaten 6-5 Michigan in a come from
behind 24-17 win? Probably not.The Utes have an extremely difficult
schedule this year and will need to stay healthy to get to a bowl game. I hope
Thompson is a stud and can help the Utes end their two year bowless drought.Go Thompson! Go Utes!!
UtesBy5Michigan opened 1984 beating then #1 Miami (final #18) 22-14,
lost to #2 Washington 11-20, and was ranked #13 in early October before a rash
of injuries mid season derailed their season. The Wolverines ended the season
losing at #13 Ohio 6-21 and in their bowl game to #1 BYU 17-24. By the time
Michigan faced BYU in the Holiday, all of Michigan's key players except for
Harbaugh were back and healthy, including the core of a very good defense.Quite obviously, Michigan was a very competitive team against some of
the top teams in the country.Trying to equate Michigan 1984 to
Michigan 2008 is laughable.
Michigan was an easy win in 2008, we were up 25-10 with 9:00 mins left in the
game when Whitt let off the gas like he always does and coasted to the close
win. Which is why the BYU game was "close", and the reason we lost to
ASU.Utah matches up well against Stanford's power run game, no
"tricking" involved, it will be a good game.Oregon is still
a toss up because they lost all of their receivers and DAT, and Shulz won't
be at the helm.Road games have only been an issue the last couple of
years and mostly due to injuries, more than just the QB spot.Utah is
a good program that has been fighting through some adversity, we're making
progress and will be back in the hunt for the south title. Quit being such blind
haters and have some faith.
"The 1984 Wolverines(6-6) were themselves national championship contenders
early in the season" -------So was Pitt; spin cycle in full
KYUte"...we were up 25-10 with 9:00 mins left in the game when
Whitt let off the gas like he always does and coasted to the close win."LOL at your spin.Michigan scored first and lead 10-6 at the
end of the first quarter. Utah took a 15-point lead into the fourth quarter, but
had a punt blocked and fumbled to give Michigan a shot to come back.There's no evidence at all that Whit "let off the gas" and
"coasted".In the fourth quarter, a perfectly lofted a
33-yard touchdown pass and a 3-yard touchdown run on their next drive pulled
Michigan within two points midway through the quarter.If
Michigan's two-point conversion attempt had been successful, the score
would have been tied with over 6 minutes remaining in the game and the home team
having all of the momentum."Easy win?"Only in
the minds of those wearing the crimson shades.
Spokane UteThe 1984 Wolverines were closer to playing in the Rose
Bowl than the Utes will ever be.
Big Ten 1984 Conference StandingsOhio St 7-2Illinois 6-3Purdue
6-3Iowa 5-3-1Wisconsin 5-3-1Michigan 5-4Mich St 5-4If Michigan had beaten Ohio St in their regular season finale, Michigan
would have been tied for first with Ohio St, Illinois, and Purdue at 6-3, with
Michigan owning the tie-breaker for the Rose Bowl.
@ RockwellYeah, right, keep telling your self that. What a horrible
year for the Big 10 that was. I notice you use the word "if" a lot. I
guess you have to as opposed to telling it like it actually is. Sorry, 6-6 is
6-6. No "ifs, ands or buts" required. Did i mention the fact that it was
30 years ago? Move on Guy; Move on!
Regarding the article; it would be nice to see one of the QBs stand out well
above the rest. If that happens to be Thompson; all the better. It
has to be nice that you have the chance to play in the Rose, Alamo, Sun, Las
Vegas, etc. bowl. As opposed to, we will be playing in the Miami Beach Ball bowl
vs. the winner of the American conference. American who? Win 6, or win 11, but
get your tickets to Miami because thats the only bowl that will take you. Sad,
but true. I guess on has to live in the past; especially when your future is so
Spokane UteUnfortunately for U, "IF" isn't in the
lexicon of BYU fans when it comes to BYU being a National Championship and
Heisman Trophy winning program - both are permanently etched in the history of
college football.Something Utah fans can only dream about.
"It has to be nice that you have the chance to play in the Rose, Alamo, Sun,
Las Vegas, etc. bowl. As opposed to, we will be playing in the Miami Beach
Bowl"Don't kid yourself.The Utes will be
playing in the same bowl they've played in the last two seasons - the couch
potato bowl.Bowl Sites during the Independent/PAC eraBYU
- Dallas, San Diego, San Francisco, MiamiUtah - El Paso, home for the
holidaysAs far as future bowls for BYU, you obviously don't
have a clue what you're talking about.
Spokane UteUtah fans are living on the unfulfilled expectations of
what they wish was happening, rather than accepting the reality of what's
actually happening."Potential" means NOTHING without
"fulfillment".Arizona fans have been dreaming about the
possibility of playing in the Rose Bowl for over 30 years. Utah fans could be
dreaming about the same possibility 30 years from now.It's
laughable that the Utes have been forced to resort to beating their chests about
"possibilities", rather than something they've actually
"It has to be nice that you have the chance to play in the Rose, Alamo, Sun,
Las Vegas, etc. bowl."If bowl possibilities were his main
concern, he should have stayed at Oklahoma where at least his team would be
playing in a bowl:2013Utah - noneOkla - Sugar Bowl2012Utah - noneOkla - Cotton Bowl2011Utah
- Sun Bowl (El Paso)Okla - Insight Bowl (Phoenix)Oklahoma
hasn't missed playing in a bowl since 1998.
talkinsportsKind of like BYU dreaming of going to a bowl other than
the Beach Ball Bowl? To be reduced to trolling Utah threads trying to justify a
NC won by default over 30 years ago. How sad; how truely sad. FYI, Utah played
in the Sun bowl 3 years ago. That's a bowl BYU has no chance of ever
playing in. Congrats on being locked into an extremely low tier bowl in June.
Thats how sorry BYU's future is; it's the only school that can say
that. I used to feel kind of bad for BYU, but not any more. The school and the
Pompous fan base are exactly where they deserve to be; on the outside looking
in. Quick, to the time machine. DeepBlueUmm, Utah has
been in the PAC 12 for 3 years; hardley 30. Nice try though. Pretty sad to be
reduced to hoping others can do what your team can't: beat Utah.
Spokane UteKinda like Utah fans just making stuff up to help them
sleep at night.Arizona fans talked a lot about playing in the Rose
Bowl when the Wildcats joined the PAC. 30 years later its still nothing but
talk.Utah fans talked a lot about being able to compete with
anybody, before the Utes joined the PAC. 4-5, 3-6, 2-7 has proven that it was
nothing but talk.As far as future bowls go, BYU has already accepted
an invitation to play in the Poinsettia Bowl in 2015 as well as one other date
to be announced later. Unlike the Utes, there a lots of bowls that would love to
have the Cougars.
Well Spoken Spokane Ute. I have never seen a fan base talk so much trash on
their rival after being beaten by their rival for four straight years as byu
does. If you didn't know any better you'd think byu was the team on
the 4 game winning streak over their rival. The sad thing for byu
fans is that 1984 keeps getting farther and farther away with every passing
"Utah played in the Sun bowl 3 years ago. That's a bowl BYU has no
chance of ever playing in."Thank goodness. Who in their right
mind would want to spend New Year's Eve in El Paso.I'd
much rather spend bowl week in Dallas, San Diego, San Francisco or Miami.
@all the BYU fans talking about bowlsThere are a lot of comments
about the Utes missing a bowl the last two years, followed by
"prophecies" of a continued drought based on said two years.Here is some food for thought...How many consecutive years did
Utah miss a bowl game since 2000? 2What conference did they play in during
said bowl-less streak? PAC12How many consecutive years did Stanford
miss a bowl game since 2000? 7What conference did they play in during said
bowl-less streak? PAC10How Many Consecutive years did Washington
miss a bowl game since 2000? 7What conference did they play in during said
bowl-less streak? PAC10How many consecutive years did BYU miss a
bowl game since 2000? 3What conference did they play in during said
bowl-less streak? Mountain WestThoughts?
KHYou and Spokane Ute are living proof that Utah fans care more
about beating BYU than about playing in a bowl.The sad thing for U
is the closest Utah will ever get to the twin symbols of ultimate team and
individual achievement in major college football are the "dusty" Crystal
Football National Championship Trophy and the Heisman Trophy displayed proudly
in BYU's Legacy Hall of Fame.Despite Utah having a mini-run of
head-to-head success versus BYU, the Utes still lag far behind BYU in overall
success.AP Top 25 FinishesBronco 4Kyle 211+
Win, Top 15 FinishesBronco 3Kyle 1Conference
ChampionshipsBronco 2Kyle 1Bowl GamesBronco 9Kyle 7Besides Kyle's one great flash-in-the-pan season in
2008, what else has he done except win a few close games against BYU?
LoneStarRunner,The fact that Utah has no problem beating byu the
last 4 years and 9 of the last 12 years and then struggles in the PAC 12
suggests that maybe Utah hasn't made a bowl game the last 2 years due to
strength of schedule. Do you honestly believe Utah wouldn't have the same
record that byu has had the last two years if they had byu's soft schedule?
Actually Utah would have 1 more win and 1 fewer loss each year due to the fact
that Utah beat byu the last two years. Something byu fans just
don't understand is that it is harder to beat a team like Oregon, Stanford,
USC, UCLA, Washington, etc. than beating a team like Savannah St., Idaho, Idaho
St., New Mexico St., Middle Tennessee St. byu will go on winning a
lot of games this year and brag about it to Utah fans. But remember, it
doesn't mean much when you beat Savannah St by 50 points.
KYUteHere is some food for thought...Three years after
joining the WAC in 1962, Utah won their first WAC championship, played in the
Liberty Bowl, and cracked the Coaches poll for the first time.At
that point BYU had never won a conference championship or played in a bowl.By the time Utah played in their next bowl, in 1992,BYU had
won a National Championship, a Heisman Trophy, had played in SIXTEEN bowl games,
and been ranked in the AP and Coaches polls TEN times.Utah
didn't even crack the AP poll until 1994.And all of that
happened while Utah was still in the WAC.How do know that Utah
won't have another losing year in 2014, fire Whittingham, and go into a
funk just like their basketball program did after Majerus left?It
could be years before Utah plays in another bowl game.
KH14 of the last 17 BYU-Utah games have been decided by a touchdown
or less in the closing minutes or in overtime, including 3 of the last 4
games.The fact that Utah has won a slight majority of those close
games (8 of 14) doesn't prove anything except that Utah has gotten
extremely lucky bounces to pull off several of those wins.It's
laughable that you think BYU fans don't understand what it takes to beat
PAC 12 teams.Let's review.Versus PAC 12 TeamsBronco 9-9Kyle 13-21Bronco has a winning record versus 5 of
the 8 PAC 12 teams BYU has faced and has beaten all of them, except California,
at least once - UCLA(2-1), Washington(2-1), Wash St(1-0), Oregon(1-0), Oregon
St(2-1), Arizona(1-2), Utah(3-6), and California(0-1).Kyle has a
losing record versus 6 of 11 PAC 12 teams he's faced and has never beaten
Washington, Oregon, USC, or ASU - USC(0-3), Washington(0-2), Oregon(0-1),
Arizona St(0-3), UCLA(2-3), Oregon St(2-3), Arizona(2-2), Washington St(2-1),
Colorado(2-1), Stanford(1-0), and California(2-1).
@Utesby5You forgot to mention how horrendous the Big 10 was in 1984.
Almost as bad as the WAC itself. Ranked 8th and 9th respectively, behind the
SWAC and, well, 6 others. Michigan finished in the lower half of a terrible
@ skywalkerThe fact that Utah has won a majority of close games
proves they are a better team. BYU hasn't even held a lead on Utah since
the first half of 2011.Also, are you really going to sit there and
compare Oregon of 2006 to Oregon now. Or UW of 2008 to their program today?
BYU got a first hand taste last season about how much the Huskies have changed.
Also, it should be mentioned that BYU doesn't have to face these teams week
in and week out like Utah does. It makes a huge difference
@thebigsamoan:You're always a class act!
truthsandwichYou forgot to mention that as "bad" as Michigan
1984 was, Michigan 2008 was so bad that Michigan 1984 would have beaten the tar
out of Michigan 2008.It's laughable how Utah fans love to nit
pik every BYU win - Washington, Oregon, Oklahoma, Texas - while proclaiming
every Utah win over a P5 conference team a monumental win, regardless of how
mediocre the team Utah played really was.Apply your BYU opponent
measuring stick to Utah's 2004 schedule and you'll see just how
mediocre Utah 2004 was.After beating Alabama, Utah fans claimed that
Utah could compete with anybody in the country. Now that reality has smacked U
in the face, all U can do is whine about how tough it is for Utah to beat PAC 12
teams - something that strangely seems to be a lot easier for BYU to do.The fact that BYU has had more overall success proves that BYU is better
than Utah.AP Top 25 FinishesBronco 4Kyle 211+ Win, Top 15 FinishesBronco 3Kyle 1Bronco has more
11+ win seasons since 2006, than Utah has had in their entire history.
@marked it down"Apply your BYU opponent measuring stick to
Utah's 2004 schedule and you'll see just how mediocre Utah 2004
was."Sure. Utah went undefeated against a higher strength of
schedule than '84 BYU, and never won by less than 14 points.If
that was mediocre, how would you describe '84 BYU's opponents?(Hint: Sports Illustrated describes them as not good enough to merit a NC in
the world we currently live in)That one came back to bite you,
didn't it."all U can do is whine about how tough it is for
Utah to beat PAC 12 teams - something that strangely seems to be a lot easier
for BYU to do."Wrong again. Since joining the PAC12, Utah has a
higher winning percentage than BYU against PAC12 teams. Oops."The fact that BYU has had more overall success proves that BYU is better
than Utah."Clearly four beat downs in a row has got you in the
denial stages of the grieving process. But congrats on getting all those wins
against a schedule full of Savanna States and Virginias.. wait... Remind me how many ranked teams you guys beat last year?
truthsandwichDespite all of your spinning,BYU 1984
finished #1/#1Utah 2004 finished #4/#5Obviously, SOS is not
the overriding factor Utah fans claim it to be. And by BCS standards, margin of
victory is MEANINGLESS, yet you continue to cite Utah's margins of victory
in 2004."Sports Illustrated describes them as not good enough to
merit a NC in the world we currently live in."Correction: ONE
writer at Sports Illustrated, THREE decades after the fact, claims that he knows
more about how deserving BYU was of winning the 1984 National Championship, than
the THIRTY-EIGHT sports journalists of the day who voted BYU #1.Utah
1944 wouldn't even have been invited to the NIT or NCAA based on
today's standards.It's laughable how you conveniently
choose to ignore the little details that don't fit your BYU hating
truthsandwich"Since joining the PAC12, Utah has a higher winning
percentage than BYU against PAC12 teams."Laughing hysterically
at how you have to slice and dice things to help you sleep at night.Versus the PAC 12During the Bronco/Kyle era:BYU 9-9 (50%)Utah 13-21 (38%)During the Ind/PAC era:Versus PAC 12BYU 2-5 (29%)Utah 9-18 (33%)Bowl GamesBYU 3Utah
1Top 25 FinishesBYU 1Utah 0Remind us how
many ranked teams Utah beat in 2012?
@ CordonBleu2004 Utah had a great season, but they did not do enough
to be the number one team, or even to secure a spot in the NCG. We feel the
same way about 1984 BYU. They have the weakest resume of any national champion
and they certainly wouldn't be considered for a national championship by
current standards."Utah 1944 wouldn't even have been
invited to the NIT or NCAA based on today's standards."Nobody brought that up. Also, Ute fans typically don't bring it up, and
we especially don't use it to try and prove our program's relevance in
today's world. That is a subtle difference between the two fan bases.
2ferWho cares whether you and the rest of the hill crowd feels that
BYU didn't "deserve" to be #1 in 1984?The majority of
national sportswriters and major college coaches disagree with your biased
opinion.As far as relevance in today's world:AP Top
25 Finishes since 2006BYU 4Utah 211+ Win, Top 25 Seasons
since 2006BYU 3Utah 1From a national perspective, Utah
had one great season while they were still in the MWC, but have proven that they
can't compete in a big boy conference.----------------"Utah 1944 wouldn't even have been invited to the NIT or NCAA based
on today's standards."Nobody brought that up.Of
course you wouldn't, because it proves what a farce your "by
today's standards" narrative really is.
You forgot Robbie Bosco (and common sense). He said that team's resume
would have landed them 4th or 5th by today's standards, where strength of
schedule matters. The fact that Y fans keep trying to justify the
NC by comparing '84 BYU to a Utah team from the modern era that wasn't
awarded a championship at all, speaks volumes.Yes, BYU was awarded a
crystal football in 1984. We're just recognizing they got it by beating the
worst teams in college football, then a bad team from a bad conference in a
lower-tier bowl. Crystal Football in the modern era? Not even close.Robbie Bosco, Sports Illustrated, and reasonable thinkers agree.
@ScottYou forgot- VS. each other in the past 4 years:Utah 4-0 (100%)BYU 0-4 ( 0% )Don't forget to
"laugh hysterically at how you had to slice and dice that out to help you
sleep at night."LOL
truthsandwichSorry to burst your crimson bubble, but versus
"each other" only gives U local bragging rights, it's meaningless
as far as national relevance goes.National rankings, overall
records, and bowl games are far more relevant on a national scale than
individual head-to-head results that nobody else in the country even cares
about.Robbie Bosco, when asked immediately after the game whether
BYU deserved to be #1 answered emphatically, "YES"! I was at the game
and saw him answer the question.You're straining at a gnat
trying to suggest that the opinion of one lone writer for Sports Illustrated, 30
years after the fact, carries more weight than the 38 national sportswriters of
the day who did feel that BYU deserved to win the 1984 National Championship.
truthsandwichTwo questions to test how much you really know about
college football:What is Utah's highest placement EVER in the
"Crystal Football" rankings?What changes, in detail, have
been made from 1984 to the "modern era" in the AP rankings?
@Solomon"Robbie Bosco, when asked immediately after the game
whether BYU deserved to be #1 answered emphatically, "YES"!"Haha was he supposed to yell "NO!"?Of course he said
that. In 1984.Much more recently however, he has stated that their
resume of only beating bad teams would have landed them 4th or 5th in the modern
era. Can you explain that?
truthsandwichWho cares what quote you take completely out of context
30 years after the fact?The fact remains that BYU won the 1984
National Championship as voted on by the majority of AP and Coaches
pollsters.Get over your jealous tizzy fit and just accept that
BYU's national championship was just as legitimate as any other major
college football national championship ever won.BYU finished 1984 on
a 24-game winning streak, with back-to-back Top 7 finishes, 5 Top 12 Finishes in
6 years, and had clearly built enough national cachet with the pollsters to
warrant being selected #1 even with a less than stellar 1984 SOS.If
you want undeniable PROOF of that claim, stop by BYU's Legacy Hall of Fame
anytime to view ALL FIVE National Championship Trophies presented by ALL FIVE
Major College Football National Championship selecting organizations of the
day.btw, I noticed that you completely dodged talkinsports'
questions to you. Can you explain that?
"Much more recently however, he has stated that their resume of only beating
bad teams would have landed them 4th or 5th in the modern era."Do you have any verifiable proof that Bosco's taken-out-of-context
"opinion" is in fact true?Can you prove, unequivocally, that
the team ranked #1 in both the Coaches and AP polls wouldn't have been
invited to the BCS championship game and wouldn't have been able to beat
whichever team BYU faced?
truthsandwichBy today's standards, neither Utah 2004 nor Utah
2008 would have been invited to the playoffs.Does that invalidate
Utah's BCS bowl wins?Maybe you should give back that Fiesta
Bowl trophy because Utah's resume of only beating bad teams proves that
they didn't deserve to be playing in a major bowl.
Fight On, I wouldn't discount Kendals ability too much as your Trojans
aren't much to speak of and Thompson, if he earns it and I believe he will,
is a handful on the field with his speed and accuracy. Did you see that ESPN
rated OU as the #1 school for QB's so Kendal has come from some significant
coaching. He is extremely cerebral and accurate with his passes. He was
actually considered second only to Landry Jones in accuracy and was in fact the
choice to start last year prior to getting injured first day of summer ball. The
UTES are getting a big time player and he will show so quickly. He has too.
Fortunately he knows how to approach the game from his time at OU and I believe
his teammates will really take to him. Don't count that game a win just
@ Solomon LeviI'm not going to play the cherry-picking timeline
game. Relevant teams don't compare "top 25" finishes. Seriously,
can you imagine Alabama fans bragging about top 25 finished since 2006? "From a national perspective, Utah had one great season while they
were still in the MWC, but have proven that they can't compete in a big boy
conference." The exact same thing can be said about TCU. Yet,
the Horned Frogs are still head and shoulders above BYU. It's hilarious to
me that BYU fans somehow think they could step in and compete in a P5
conference, when the two former premier programs in the MWC are struggling to do
so. "Of course you wouldn't, because it proves what a
farce your "by today's standards" narrative really is."Not really. 1944 Utah wouldn't make the tournament today. 1984
BYU wouldn't even sniff the NCG. The difference: Ute fans don't
pound their chest about 1944 saying they belong in a P5 conference. Nobody even
talks about it unless BYU fans bring it up first.
truthsandwichThe fundamental flaw in your whole narrative is
this:Historical events do not occur in isolation.To
objectively evaluate an event "by today's standards" you'd
have to move everything associated with that event to today to place it in the
proper context.In other words, you'd have to include at least
everything that was happening in college football from the 1979 season, when BYU
really began their run to the 1984 National Championship, all the way up to the
moment AP and Coaches poll voter cast the ballots.Not only would you
have to include what was happening with BYU, but what was happening with every
other college football team from 1979 to 1984, to get a true picture of where
BYU fit in to the college football landscape.Simply saying
BYU's SOS wasn't strong enough to warrant a national championship is a
simplistic approach that completely ignores the context in which BYU won the
2ferre: "From a national perspective, Utah had one great season
while they were still in the MWC, but have proven that they can't compete
in a big boy conference." "The exact same thing can be said
about TCU. Yet, the Horned Frogs are still head and shoulders above BYU."Still???Then how do you explain:2013BYU 41
Texas 20TCU 7 Texas 30---------------------"Relevant teams don't compare "top 25" finishes."Actually, to be relevant, on a national scale, don't you at least
have to finish in the Top 25 once in a while.Of course, it's
understandable why Utah fans would avoid comparing Top 25 finishes like the
plague - the Utes only have FIVE AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history,
NONE before 1994, and only TWO during the Bronco/Kyle era.
twofer"Ute fans don't pound their chest about 1944 saying
they belong in a P5 conference. Nobody even talks about it unless BYU fans bring
it up first."Don't kid yourself; Utah fans are constantly
pounding their chests about Utah's NCAA championship and Final Four
appearances any time they start comparing Utah's overall basketball program
@ RockwellThe transitive property does not work in college football.
Utah beat Stanford, who beat ASU, who beat Utah. Or Stanford beat WSU, who
beat USC, who beat Stanford. BYU was blown out by TCU the last four
times they played them, and has lost 5 of the last 6 against Utah. What
honestly makes you believe that BYU has the depth to compete with the big boys
when two programs who own BYU are struggling to do so?Also, Utah
will eventually get back to the top 25, and when they do it will mean something.
BYU will continue building the majority of its wins on the back of mediocre
competition. I guess you guys enjoy that.@ deductive reasoningUtah's 1947 NIT title was more impressive than the NCAA one in 44,
but those happened a LONG time ago. All-time, Utah's program is better
than BYU's. But what happened in the 40's is only a very small part
of the reason why.
@ Snack PACNo, because Utah would still be invited to one of the
other 4 BCS bowls, or whatever they're going to call them now.
2fer"The transitive property does not work in college
football."LOL at your typical Ute spin.If
comparative scores don't work for you, what evidence do you have that
"...the Horned Frogs are still head and shoulders above BYU" except for
your own BYU-hating biased opinion?2013BYU 41 Texas 20TCU 7 Texas 30BYU(8-5)TCU(4-8)Sagarin#35
BYU#48 TCUBy record, ranking, and comparative score, BYU is
now clearly better than TCU.
"BYU was blown out by TCU the last four times they played them, and has lost
5 of the last 6 against Utah."Which proves absolutely NOTHING
for 2014 and beyond.The last BYU-TCU game, at TCU in 2011, ended
28-38.The last BYU-Utah game, in 2013, ended 13-20.The last TCU-Utah
game, at Utah in 2010, ended 7-47.Hardly overwhelming victories for
either TCU or Utah, but a clear indication that TCU is head and shoulders over
Utah, although have become bottom feeders in big boy conferences.
"Utah's 1947 NIT title was more impressive than the NCAA one in
44..."So were BYU's 1951 and 1966 NIT titles.
@ deductive reasoningIt's not spin. I showed you exactly why
the transitive property doesn't work. "Stanford beat WSU, who beat
USC, who beat Stanford""Which proves absolutely NOTHING for
2014 and beyond."TCU's dominance of BYU towards the end of
the MWC and Utah's record against the Cougs in the MWC and the three years
thereafter indicate that both Utah and TCU had stronger programs at the time
they changed conferences. Both Utah and TCU immediately saw a decrease in conf.
wins, while the non-conference wins have remained steady. This indicates that
SOS is the reason win totals have decreased. If BYU ever played a top 15 SOS
the Cougars would only win 4-5 games, just like the Utes and Frogs. Until BYU
does that, any record comparison is meaningless.
BYU's crowning achievement in '84 was barely beating the 24th best
team in the country.This was an NC in '84. It would not be
close to an NC in the modern era. So far I've seen two BYU fans on these
boards cede this simple fact. It's not hard. Even Robbie Bosco did it.Can you name another team that has since been awarded a National
Championship without beating any top 20 teams?In any major college
2ferAs has been cited ad nauseum, 14 of the last 17 BYU-Utah games
have been decided by a touchdown or less in the closing minutes or in overtime,
clearly indicating that BYU and Utah have been very closely matched,
head-to-head, during the last 17 years.Adding 1996, the year of
BYU's last "dominant" win, on a broader, overall, national scale,
BYU has clearly had the edge.AP Top 25 FinishesBYU 6Utah
411+ Win, Top 15 FinishesBYU 5Utah 2Conference ChampionshipsBYU 5Utah 310+ Win SeasonsBYU 7Utah 5Higher Sagarin RatingBYU 10Utah 8Bowl GamesBYU 13Utah 12Seasons with tougher
SOS:BYU 9Utah 9Your whiny SOS argument is simply a whiny
excuse for losing. The Utes have lagged behind BYU in overall records, rankings,
and conference championships since 1972.The Utes have NEVER
qualified for a bowl game with a Top 40 SOS.BYU qualified for a bowl
in 2013 with the #38 SOS.Kyle is always losing to perennial
conference bottom dwellers like Wyoming, Colorado St, New Mexico, UNLV,
Washington St, and Colorado.Bronco is undefeated versus Wyoming,
Colorado St, New Mexico, UNLV, and Washington St.
truthsandwichBYU's crowning achievement in 1984 was finishing
an undefeated season with a 24-game winning streak and back-to-back Top 7
finishes to win a CONSENSUS Major College Football National
Championship!Obviously, what BYU accomplished in 1984 was good
enough for the majority of national sportswriters and major college coaches to
vote BYU #1 in both major polls.
truthsandwichYou're full of talk about how
"undeserving" BYU was of winning the 1984 National Championship, so
here's your chance to prove your point.Give us your best
argument as to which 1984 team you think was more deserving than BYU of winning
the 1984 major college football national championship.Keep in mind,
BYU rose to #1 in both polls in mid-November 1984 and remained #1 throughout the
remainder of the season including the final poll. BYU's season was
carefully scrutinized by fans, coaches, and the national media for over a month,
along with the merits of each of the other contenders - Washington, Nebraska,
Oklahoma and Florida - yet, after more than a month of endless examination, the
majority of coaches and sportswriters on the Coaches and AP polls still felt
that BYU was more deserving of winning the 1984 National Championship than any
other team.You obviously disagree with the opinions of the majority
of experts, so here's your chance to give us your best armchair
quarterbacking opinion.Good luck...
@ deductive reasoningI didn't check the rest of your numbers,
but Utah had 4 conf. titles in the MWC. Also, BYU has been to more bowl games
but I know Utah has more bowl wins. That's what really matters, right?SOS is not a whiny excuse for losing. Playing a top 5 SOS is a
completely valid reason for why Utah was not able to reach a bowl game. Six of
the teams on Utah's schedule finished in Sagarin's top 25, with Utah
going 1-5. BYU played two, and wasn't competitive with ether of them.Every team suffers bad losses. Most of Utah's took place between
2005 and early 2007. WSU last year was not a bad loss. Also to be fair, the
year Bronco beat WSU (30-6), Utah also beat them (49-6).
@ Solomon LeviNot true. In 1951 the NCAA Tournament expanded to 16
teams and made it mandatory for the champions of the top-10 conferences to
participate. Since that time the NCAA has been the premier tournament. The champion in 1951 was Kentucky.Texas Western was the
champ in 1966. The movie Glory Road was based on their story. Side
Note: Jerry Chambers from Utah was named the Most Outstanding Player of the
tournament that year.
Two For Flinching"Playing a top 5 SOS is a completely valid
reason for why Utah was not able to reach a bowl game."Utah only
played a Top 5 schedule in 2013; in 2012, Utah played the 41st-ranked schedule
and still didn't qualify for a bowl, while BYU, playing the 38th toughest
schedule in 2013 did qualify for a bowl."In 1951 the NCAA
Tournament expanded to 16 teams and made it mandatory for the champions of the
top-10 conferences to participate. Since that time the NCAA has been the premier
tournament."BYU's 28-9 record in 1951, with 3 decisive wins
in the NITand BYU's 20-5 record in 1966, with 3 decisive wins
in the NITboth against real college teams made up of junior- and
senior- laden teamswas still far more impressive than Utah's
6-1 record in 1944 versus college teams made up of freshmen and a few
sophomores, with an opening round loss in the NIT
Two For Flinching"Most of Utah's [bottom feeding losses]
took place between 2005 and early 2007."Utah was SHUT OUT by
10-loss UNLV 0-27 a week after destroying UCLA 44-6.You left out two
glaring losses:Utah's 2011 home loss to Colorado(3-10) 14-17,
with a gift-wrapped PAC South there for the taking, and the Utes playing a team
that hadn't won a road game in four years.Utah's 2013 road
loss to Washington State(6-7) 37-49, a game that would have given Utah chance to
finish 6-6 and possibly go to a bowl. WSU lost to Colorado St in the New Mexico
Bowl, not exactly a juggernaut.Blaming your inability to qualify for
a bowl in 2013 on SOS is laughable when all you had to do was beat two teams
that finished with losing records to qualify for a possible bowl.
@ No playoff for U2012 and 2013 are completely different years,
which makes the SOS comparison one of Apples to Oranges. In 2013, I believe
Utah would have easily qualified for a bowl playing the 38th ranked SOS.Utah was shutout by UNLV, early in 2007 just like I said. It was a bad
loss, just like CU was in 2011. Washington St. was not a bad team last year.
They finished ranked 40th (Sagarin). CSU really wasn't a bad team either.
The Rams are starting to invest some serious money into their program and they
seem to have found a pretty good coach with McElwain.BYU had a great
run in the NIT those two years. It still was the lesser of the two tournaments
at the time.
"Blaming your inability to qualify for a bowl in 2013 on SOS is laughable
when all you had to do was beat two teams that finished with losing records to
qualify for a possible bowl."Utah only lost to one team with a
losing record, which was WSU. As stated before, they were not a bad team.