Congratulations Utah!!You've come a long way, baby!
What, parade in SLC? Do it in San Francisco but here
It seems some of the tone has changed on the DN, and for the better.This article shows more acceptance of the idea that Amendment 3 will be gone
than anything we could have read here until recently.Where I quibble
is the major influence given to Mormons Building Bridges, which has yet to prove
that it is not simply an unofficial tool of the church, meant to keep Gay
mormons in the fold, rather than recognize that they have choices.Quote from recent article:"Mormons Building Bridges seeks to
'amplify the church's message. We send people to the Mormons and Gays
website, we use the talks of General Authorities from our general conferences,
we use the scriptures.'"Since only church information is
given, I suggest that "Mormons Digging a Moat Around Their Gay Members"
is not an unfair play on the group's name.I also remember when
the Prop 8 organization was "not a part of the church".I am
glad that the Pride celebration in Salt Lake was so joyous.
My 16 year old daughter and I walked with the Capitol 13 group today. We had
an absolute blast both at the festival yesterday and in the parade this morning.
My 13 year old could not come thus morning but plans on walking with us next
time. It was wonderful. It has been an absolutely fantastic pride weekend.
I can't help but note the irony of "Mormons Building Bridges" out
on the Sabbath day at a parade. How deeply do they believe in their religion?
"Christlike love is the greatest need we have on this planet in part because
righteousness was always supposed to accompany it. So if love is to be our
watchword, as it must be, then by the word of Him who is love personified, we
must forsake transgression and any hint of advocacy for it in others. Jesus
clearly understood what many in our modern culture seem to forget: that there is
a crucial difference between the commandment to forgive sin (which He had an
infinite capacity to do) and the warning against condoning it (which He never
ever did even once)." Jeffrey R. Holland
@A1994They probably believe at least as much as someone that would
ignore the counsel of thier prophet to not questions other faith. @dws coug?
DEW CougarsSandy, UT"What, parade in SLC? Do it in San Francisco
but here"--- But the church wants all the Gay mormons to stay.
Do you want them to leave?A1994Centerville, UT"I
can't help but note the irony of "Mormons Building Bridges" out on
the Sabbath day at a parade. How deeply do they believe in their
religion?"--- Actually, they are working the religion by putting
up the pretense that staying in the church does not make Gays into 2nd or 3rd
class citizens.The folks who drove to California from Utah in 2008
knocked on doors and demonstrated on Sundays, as well. Same thing, just a bit
less cleverly hidden from its church origins.
Each State has an interest in seeing successful families. Unfortunately since
the sexual revolution of the 1960's too large a percentage of families have
deteriorated through divorce, and irresponsible, out of wedlock sexual
relationships.Rutgers sociologist Professor David Popenoe writes,
"the burden of social science evidence supports the idea that
gender-differentiated parenting is important for human development and the
contribution of fathers to childrearing is unique and irreplaceable." He
then concludes: "We should disavow the notion that mommies can make good
daddies, just as we should the popular notion that daddies can make good
mommies. The two sexes are different to the core and each is necessary;
culturally and biologically;for the optimal development of a human
being."This is why 34 states specified the long held definition
of marriage as the union of a man and a woman, Many doing so by amending their
I support the free speech rights of citizen to peacefully assemble and
demonstrate for, or against, anything they like.However, I still
oppose same sex marriage and most of the other stuff represented by this
"festival."Is this a wonderful country, or what!
I'm Mormon from Logan, and attending school at BYUI. I support gay marriage
and gay rights and protection. I couldn't attend the parade today
unfortunately, but many of my friends from Logan and here at BYUI took the time
during mid-terms to celebrate and be a part of this. Love will win. I will
always support love, commitment and family- even when my church does not.
@Rocket ScienceIn other words, a family with a mother and a father
is the most ideal of circumstances under which to raise a child. Makes sense to
@A1994Taking your optimal parenting rationale to a logical conclusion,
empirical evidence at hand should require that only rich, educated,
suburban-dwelling, married Asians can marry while excluding all other
heterosexual couples. The absurdity of such a requirement is self-evident.Every major professional organization in this country whose focus is the
health and well-being of children and families has reviewed the data on outcomes
for children raised by lesbian and gay couples, including the methods by which
the data were collected, and have concluded that these children are not
disadvantaged compared to children raised in heterosexual parent households.
Organizations expressing support for parenting, adoption, and/or fostering by
lesbian and gay couples include (but are not limited to): American Medical
Association, American Academy of Pediatrics, American Psychiatric Association,
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, American Psychoanalytic
Association, American Psychological Association, Child Welfare League of
America, National Association of Social Workers, and the Donaldson Adoption
Institute. It’s the quality of parenting that’s being offered. When
these factors are present: good mental health, good parent-child relationships,
warmth, stimulation, structure, and the availability of resources. Then
we’re going to have a child who will be healthy.
I love the the rants and hate in here. The LDS Church is your scapegoat for your
anger and your vitriol. This is why we will never have a civil discourse, people
mock the "Mormon building bridges" as a stunt and routine. You expect
people who have held to opinions and beliefs to change over night? Rather than
accept that people can evolve and learn to evolve, in other words "be
human" you cast them as bigoted and shortsighted. Gay marriage is not an
easy thing for many of us, and I admit it has taken me a long time to realize
that how others choose to love is does not affect my beliefs. Nor does it
detract that people I have come to know and respect are gay and are just the
same as I. So, please give the rants a rest, let history fall where it may, and
let those of us still coming to terms with changes have that time.
Many undoubtedly voted for Amendment 3 because of sincerely held religious
beliefs that homosexuality is wrong or that gay marriage conflicts with
doctrinal teachings. For them, the ban ensured that their “strongly held
values” are “reflected in the law.” However, those beliefs
cannot justify State-sponsored discrimination. “The same Constitution that
protects the free exercise of one’s faith is the same Constitution that
prevents the state from either mandating adherence to an established religion or
‘enforcing private moral or religious beliefs without an accompanying
secular purpose. Some people also have “sincerely held religious
beliefs” against interracial dating and interracial marriage. The
Constitution prevents the State from enforcing such beliefs and simply
recognizes that such views cannot deprive citizens of their constitutionally
protected fundamental rights."Prejudice rises not from malice or
hostile animus alone. It may result as well from insensitivity caused by simple
want of careful, rational reflection or from some instinctive mechanism to guard
against people who appear to be different from ourselves.”
It's great to see Salt Lake giving the gay community the respect and
dignity it deserves. A year or two from now, after the Supreme Court overturns
gay marriage bans in all 50 states, our gay brothers and sisters in Utah will be
able to get married in every county. It's going to be awesome!
A whole weekend of people acting full of themselves and boasting. Pride is an inwardly directed emotion that carries two common meanings. With a
negative connotation, pride refers to an inflated sense of one's personal
status or accomplishments, often used synonymously with hubris (wiki)dictionary:a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance,
merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in
bearing, conduct, etc.2.the state or feeling of being proud.3.a becoming or dignified sense of what is due to oneself or one's
position or character; self-respect; self-esteem.
@ Rocket Scientist, 34 states amended their constitutions because of animus
toward gays and heavy lobbying by fundamentalist Christian and LDS churches. I
doubt that one voter in 100 knew who David Popenoe was. You can
always find one person out of dozens who will agree with you, even if you are
claiming that the moon is made of green cheese. Neither Popenoe nor Regenerus
have much of a reputation among sociologists.
Rocket ScienceBrigham City, UT"Each State has an interest in
seeing successful families. Unfortunately since the sexual revolution of the
1960's too large a percentage of families have deteriorated through
divorce, and irresponsible, out of wedlock sexual relationships.Rutgers
sociologist Professor David Popenoe writes...."..... Yep,
let's quote old articles by a die hard who teaches in a middling college in
a State that has marriage equality, which is very popular, except among the
conservative catholics he represents.Let's ignore that
orphanages are overflowing -- Gay families help give homes to hard to place
kids.Let's ignore that people are entitled to get married and
never have children.Let's forget that individuals may have
Constitutional rights, and some churches do not agree, but they do not own the
Government, even in Utah.Divorce spoils familiesLack of
commitment spoils familiesPoverty spoils families.Gay people
marrying adds to the list of stable families.Stubborn people who
want to stop others' rights do not exactly enhance the Christian church.
Re: "I can't help but note the irony of 'Mormons Building
Bridges' out on the Sabbath day at a parade. How deeply do they believe in
their religion?"The parade was held on a Sunday, so Sunday was
the only day they could participate."And [Jesus] said unto them,
The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath."
@Rocket Science;Thankfully, in this country, the Federal
Constitution trumps State Constitutions. You may not violate the rights of your
fellow citizens, no matter how much you may want to do so.@A1994;The "ideal" is the enemy of the good.@MurrayGuy;Just as it is difficult for you to accept the marriages of your LGBT
brothers and sisters, it is going to be VERY difficult for LGBT people to let go
of the hurt caused them by Mormons and the LDS church. Put yourself in our
shoes; you've voted on our rights, your church continues to fight against
our civil rights and has put many of us through very painful times. It is going
to take time for us too.
There is a silent majority, particularly in Utah, who will never accept gay
marriage no matter what the courts say or anyone else. We have to remain silent
because there are so many voices that are supported by powerful special
interests that want us to remain silent if we don't agree to their agenda.
Our voices are not heard but we will never go away either. Something so
fundamental to our society and sacred as marriage will never in our minds be
tarnished and degraded by the gay agenda. Therefore, we silently reject any
attempt to define marriage as anything other than a union between one man and
one woman. Anything other than that we will never accept.
@coleman51;You don't have to accept anything. Don't. We
don't care if you accept or not, the government, on the other hand...The nice thing is, you don't get to decide whether or not
we're married, even if you don't accept that we are.
@coleman51 - Interracial marriage and blacks in the priesthood still have a
"silent majority." Doesn't make it correct.
@Coleman51, I can empathize with you, whether or not you believe it. Stuff that
you've had drilled into you since childhood is not easy to shake,
especially if you stay within the same insular community. It has been 36 years
since the Revelation, but there are thousands of Mormons who still flinch at the
idea of a black couple--or an interracial couple--being married in the Temple.
It's easy to disparage people who you see as "other"--until you
live with them or work side by side with them, and the utter unfairness of the
discrimination becomes clear. It's been said that nothing makes a man into
a feminist faster than having his fully qualified daughter get her application
to medical school rejected. And nothing will turn an unapologetically anti-gay
person into a pro SSM one as fast as finding out that their beloved son is gay.
The 34 states that amended their constitutions to state that marriage was
between a man and a woman did so several years ago. Fortunately Americans are
fast learners and are realizing that these state amendments were based on the
lack of knowledge about the LGBT community. They are realizing that giving
equal rights to all Americans does not take away their rights and especially the
equal right for same-gender marriage. They know that marriage is a major
commitment between two people who love each other and want to be legally
married.Kudos to Salt Lake City for hosting a great, pride parade!
Summarizing the criticism of the Parade participants: Proud, boastful Sabbath
breakers. That's the best you could do? It took some real courage for
Mormons to march in the parade. What a great example of Christ like love.
Since when is sexual proclivity or orientation a source of pride? It's an
accomplishment of some sort? If "Gay Pride" is OK, then what about
Straight Pride? Anyone think that would be allowed to be celebrated?
As someone born and raised in Utah but who now lives in California I just want
to throw my support to all the brave people fighting for equality in the Beehive
State! Well done brothers and sisters!
love the sinner, hate the sin.
Ben McAdams has in the past been a strong supporter of LGBT Rights, but he was
one of the key figures in SLC who was missing when the marriages were happening
in December. Sounds like a fair weather friend to me. Where were you Mayor?
@Uncle Fester"Since when is sexual proclivity or orientation a source
of pride? It's an accomplishment of some sort? If "Gay Pride" is
OK, then what about Straight Pride? Anyone think that would be allowed to be
celebrated?"Thanks to the disproportionate bigotry thrown the
way of LGBT people, and the resulting high depression and suicide rates, the
point of these pride parades is to assert that no, they aren't lesser than
anybody else, and they shouldn't feel ashamed that they have this
difference. Straight people don't face this particular challenge so an
equivalent parade for us wouldn't make sense.@SLCPorter"Ben McAdams has in the past been a strong supporter of LGBT Rights, but
he was one of the key figures in SLC who was missing when the marriages were
happening in December. Sounds like a fair weather friend to me. "I don't understand how that would be a fair weather friend. A fair
weather friend would be someone who didn't care about same-sex marriage and
then once it became legal suddenly go "oh I was always for it" (ignore
your team until it's doing well).
@Uncle Fester writes, "Since when is sexual proclivity or orientation a
source of pride? It's an accomplishment of some sort?"It's gender orientation, Uncle Fester. And the "pride" is not
because they are special, but because they now are able to be fully open and
honest about who they are--like straights have been all along. It isn't
any different than Irish celebrating their heritage on March 17, or Mormons
celebrating Pioneer Day. If you had experience as a victim of discrimination
where had to conceal who you were to get along (Tiago has spoken eloquently
about this), you would, indeed, embrace the "pride" movement.
Uncle_FesterUse of the term "Pride" is a way of simply
saying we can be proud of who we are, we don't need ashamed, we don't
accept discrimination, we shouldn't have to hide in the shadows and we are
entitled to equal rights.I imagine you celebrate your "straight
pride" on an almost daily basis, even small ways. Do you openly talk about
your spouse and family? Have you even held hands in public? Have you ever
placed a picture of your family on your desk at work? Did you have a ceremony
when married? When straight people are harassed for being straight,
denied jobs and housing, beat up or killed just for being straight - then you
may have a point.
I worry when I see groups of LDS members like "Mormon Building Bridges"
or individual members announcing that they have no opinion on marriage. The LDS
church has been very clear that marriage is between a man and a woman only. The
people who disagree with that or who push for that to change are showing that
they do not support the Prophet and leaders of the LDS church. How
can these people claim to be members in good standing at the same time they
align themselves with groups that are contrary to the LDS church? Every time a
member goes to have their temple recommend renewed they are asked "Do you
support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings
or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints?" This gay pride parade was quite loud in their
declaration of their teachings and practices that are contrary to the LDS
People that don't approve of gay marriage, should perhaps morve out of
Redshirt1701You keep saying that any member who does not agree with
the Church regarding gay marriage, should not be a member in good standing and
they are not supporting the prophet or leaders of the church, BUTElder L. Whitney Clayton said (during the Prop 8 debates in CA),
"Latter-day Saints are free to disagree with their church on the issue (Gay
Marriage) without facing any sanction. We love them and bear them no ill
will."Why do you keep judging these members when the Elders are
not doing so?
@ redshirt"How can these people claim to be members in good
standing at the same time they align themselves with groups that are contrary to
the LDS church? Every time a member goes to have their temple recommend renewed
they are asked "Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or
individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted
by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?" This gay pride parade
was quite loud in their declaration of their teachings and practices that are
contrary to the LDS doctrine."There's a big difference
between supporting the definition of traditional marriage of the 20th century
and actively promoting discrimination. Those who vote for amendments and for
business "rights" are promoting discrimination. They desire special
rights to be able to refuse service to certain 2nd class citizens. As an active
member I believe people have the choice to be married to whoever they want. I
also support our divinely inspired constitution and denounce discrimination. I'm sorry that you support discrimination. The master certainly
BU52Why are you quoting the often-quoted citation that Ghandi used
to refer to Christians?That's right, "love the sinner, hate
the sin" is nowhere in Christian texts.Your ideology is flawed
in representing ideological Christian beliefs and in the context in which you
present it.Rather, the New Testament says "Love one
another."That's it - very simple.
@The Real Maverick 12:54 p.m. June 9, 2014You caught that too. The
attitudes and programs and plans promoted by posters like redshirt strike me as
being very close to Lucifer's plan -- coercing and enforcing
"morality" without allowing individuals any choice in the matter. I
fought against that plan in the pre-mortal existence, and I am still fighting
against it now. I stood for the right to free agency in the face of some pretty
strong opposition in the pre-mortal existence and I still stand for it now.I live my life in harmony with the Gospel. I just believe that others
should have the right to make that type of decision for themselves, and not have
it forced on them.
"It really is a place where even families are welcome. It's just
become, I would say, more tame and more diverse in its make up," Ben McAdams
said.No, it is not. Two guys dressed up in tutus making out on a
street corner is not in my opinion family friendly.
I don't believe that people should have parades to flaunt their sexuality.
We need to protect families.
@RanchHand,My point, exactly made. None of us can make up for the
past hurts or loss you may feel. For myself I feel I was guided by deeply held
beliefs and as I have said reevaluated the way I believe about it. As long as
both sides continue to nurture grudges when will anything get resolved. The
"my way or the highway" approach does not work that is my point. I
won't sit here and feel sorry for my past thoughts, I never hated gays nor
was derogatory. If I could vote again knowing more about my neighbors and
friends than I did then yes I would but life changes us based on experience but
I am tired of people listing the ways they have been "abused" by me. Do
you think I like seeing my Church slandered or attacked? Live and Let Live is a
good principle to live by.
@MtnDewedOf course we have our agency to choose for ourselves, Elder
Clayton was perfectly correct in that statement. And no the church will not kick
you out(or sanction you), BUT you can be denied a temple recommend.
Many are beginning to see that irrational same-sex marriage bans based on vile
animus, hate and prejudice do not pass constitutional muster. Much like the
historical personal views of every caring, thoughtful person who just happened
to hold deep and strong personal views on where African Americans should sit on
public transportation, who they should marry, or their use of separate drinking
fountains and educational institutions. The defense and support of Jim Crow laws
could be similar to same-sex marriage bans today, and most likely undeserving of
respect or tolerance when it comes to civil marriage and public accommodations
law discrimination. T In the words of Bishop Desmond Tutu: “I
am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of
someone who considers himself my master. I demand the full menu of
@ MurrayGuyYou wrote:"Do you think I like seeing my Church
slandered or attacked? Live and Let Live is a good principle to live by."Your church is the church of my teenage years, is the church of my
parents, brothers and sisters and that make it more painful.You
cannot accuse us of slandering the church. Slandering indicates false
accusations, we are not making false accusations. Not only that, we have said
time and time again, all churches have the right to hold their beliefs and
discriminate against LGBT in their services and the homes of their followers.
Because of my faith I subjected myself to reparative therapy
(electric shocks) counseling and other psychiatric and spiritual treatments.As a missionary I preached against my feelings. Prayed for death. I left the church to be free but the church didn't let me go. The church worked hard to punish me on the civil arena as well and
prevented me from joining my life to the person I love, depriving me my beloved
and my child of the security of a legally recognized family.I am
willing to forgive the church. But the church is not ready to be forgiven.
jarka-rus wrote, "And no the church will not kick you out(or sanction you),
BUT you can be denied a temple recommend."I can't tell you
what is happening now, but in 1979 Sonia Johnson--a fourth generation Mormon
woman in Virginia--was excommunicated from the LDS church after a collection of
trumped up charges ("apostasy") were levied. Her crime was her support
of the Equal Rights Amendment and her criticism of the church leaders for their
blind opposition to it.
Gays are all pumped up, according to head line, sheeeesh.
jarka-rus"And no the church will not kick you out(or sanction
you), "----------I do believe the defination of
sanction (in this context) means to threaten or fine - not expel. So denying
someone a temple recommend is more of a sanction, right? But Elder Clayton said
that there would be no sanctioning.Maybe my dictionary is wrong, but
that is what it says.
Bet this won
To "MtnDewed" it isn't the disagreement it is the association and
support given to the gay marriage groups. It is the association with and
support given to groups that teach things contrary to LDS doctrine. The Mormons
Building Bridges are joing with groups that teach that gay marriage is good,
while the LDS doctrine says the gay marriage is bad.To "The Real
Maverick" there is a big difference in supporting groups that fight for
being kind to everybody, and supporting groups that preach that gay marriage is
good. The LDS leaders said to be kind to everybody and they have also said that
marriage is between a man and woman only. If you are an LDS member, and are
preaching that SSM is good, then you are preaching against LDS doctrine.If you are preaching against LDS doctrine, how can a member in good
standing renew their temple recommend and honestly say that they do not support
groups or people that teach things contrary to LDS teachings?
Redshirt: "The Mormons Building Bridges are joing with groups that teach
that gay marriage is good, while the LDS doctrine says the gay marriage is
bad."----------Maybe I misread the article (or maybe
you did), but MBB are not joining with other groups that believe SSM is good. I
think it said that they do not have an opinion on SSM.I believe that
they are merely extending a loving heart to gays. They marched to show that
some Mormons are kind and loving people who are not judgmental. I see only good
Interesting that a few here who claim LDS membership seem to have chosen NOT to
follow the Prophet, giving in to the whims of society. The question arises and
needs to be answered "have ye inquired of the Lord"?(1 Nephi 15:8)
Celebration of sin? I acknowledge the reality of the right to choose for
themselves...celebration of sin is another matter altogether!
Grown men dancing in their underclothing... in cages!I laughed for a
It is of interest to me to see how patronizing people are to those of us who do
not support the gay agenda and will not recognize marriage as anything other
than the union between one man and one woman. I won't bother to argue my
position to any of you because you have closed your minds to anything that
disagrees with your opinion. However, the comparison between "gay
marriage" and blacks and the priesthood is an utterly false comparison since
the majority of us rejoiced when blacks did receive the Priesthood. Also, I have
a gay nephew and that still has not altered my position. Marriage is so
fundamental to our society and to those of us in the silent majority a sacred
institution that altering or redefining it is an affront to our conscience and a
rejection of God since the very nature of God requires the union between a man
and woman who become sacred and holy beings, spotless and pure, and completely
one with each other. We consider those who alter the meaning of marriage as
@RocketScience makes a gender-based argument against gay marriage, asserting men
are different from women, and kids need both to thrive.Makes good
sense-- if you neatly divide complex people into simplistic "man"
"woman" categories: Blue or pink. Leader-Disciplinarian-Providers or
Supportive-Empathetic-Nurturers. We've seen this complementation at work
for straight people for centuries-- but not all straight people, and not always
all that well. All of which is completely irrelevant to gay
people.Having a different sexual orientation means questioning
assumptions at play for others. The world has long derided gay men
as "too" feminine, lesbians as "too" masculine. But gay people
aren't defective, they're exactly who they are: each a wonderful blend
of human potential. No need to stifle one trait in service of another.Gay people are nurturing and strong and empathetic and disciplinarian.So while you're busy shooing boys and girls to separate sides of
the dance floor, you'll find gay people dancing-- expressing the full range
of positive human qualities-- in the center of floor with all the other
happily-formed couples.The children of gay couples benefit from
whatever positive qualities their parents possess, like everyone else.
@wasatchpowder:"No, it is not. Two guys dressed up in tutus
making out on a street corner is not in my opinion family friendly."Your type always picks the demonstrative, obvious examples to rail
against. On the surface, you're right . . but then I'm not too keen on
heterosexuals "making out" in public either, especially if they're
wearing something equivalent to a tutu. Extreme PDA is rarely welcome in
"family" events regardless of the genders involved.A better
question is, would have you a problem with two gay men holding hands or
exhanging a basic kiss like a straight couple could do without anyone even
batting an eye? Parades are designed to be ostentatious, and some outliers use
them to shock people, but many posters here would object to any displays of
affection that don't fit into their nice Mormony box of acceptable
@coleman51 Orem, UT"Marriage is so fundamental to our society and to
those of us in the silent majority a sacred institution that altering or
redefining it is an affront to our conscience and a rejection of God since the
very nature of God requires the union between a man and woman who become sacred
and holy beings, spotless and pure, and completely one with each other."If you check the statistics in America there is no silent majority who
consider marriage a sacred institution. People get married and do not have
children and people have children and do not get married. Science has proven
that LGBTs are born LGBTs so God created LGBTs that way. God created us with a
brain and expects us to use it to learn and to educate. This is the 21st
century and people are moving into it.
"Marriage is so fundamental to our society and to those of us in the silent
majority . . . "Okay, Coleman, hold on. First off, what do you
mean "silent"? People with your stance are hardly silent. And
"majority"? You better check the polls again.
Amendment 3 of the Utah Constitution is in full compliance with the Constitution
of the United States. Amendment 3 never forbid anyone from marrying. The
marriage must comply with state laws, which require the marriage to be between
one man and one woman. The equal protection requirement of the 14th amendment is
@ EstoPerpetua: "Science has proven that LGBTs are born LGBTs so God
created LGBTs that way."Sorry, but this is not true. There is
no proof that SSA is genetic. Studies that make that conclusion are biased in
their approach.SSA does exist, but it can be changed. What we are
allowing today is government protection of a behavior, not a characteristic.
This is unprecedented in legal history, and we are opning a pandora's box
of problems for society in the future.
@ RedWings CLEARFIELD, UT"Sorry, but this is not true. There is
no proof that SSA is genetic. Studies that make that conclusion are biased in
their approach."No need to be sorry, people need to update their
knowledge because it is true. I am gay and I know I was born that way, no one
else knows me as I do. I followed the teachings "Know thyself and be true
to thyself" or in today's terms - "Know who you are and be that
person." Doing anything else would be living a lie which I won't do.
@ EstoPerpetua:You may feel you were born that way, and you are
entitled to feel as you do. Others struggle with SSA and overcome it. My point
is that there is no irrefutable, unbiased study that proves SSA is genetic.
That you feel that way is not scientific proof.As to your
philosophy: What about striving to improve? Improving or refining ourselves
used to be the great goal of life. Today the goal is to accept ourselves. I
have years of living in addictions, and I choose now not to be defined as an
acddict. I choose to become something better. I know who I am - an addict -
but I refuse to be that person. I believe people can become more than they are
AvenueVernal, UTAmendment 3 of the Utah Constitution is
in full compliance with the Constitution of the United States. Amendment 3 never
forbid anyone from marrying. The marriage must comply with state laws, which
require the marriage to be between one man and one woman. The equal protection
requirement of the 14th amendment is fully met.--------------Please sxplain what happened with Loving v Virginia to all of us. Everyone in
Virginia could marry - they just had to marry someone of the same race,
complying with state law and (according to you) the 14th amendment. By your
evaluation, the SCOTUS should not have ruled against Virginia.Thoughts?
RedWings is correct many have overcome their SSA by living according to the
Gospel of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We have many in our
stake who bear testimony to that very fact. While others take advantage of
modern hormonal treatments like Depo Provera. There is no magic solution for
recovery from additions since each person has to find their own path, but living
according Gospel is a great start.
According to several very recent articles researchers are finding not one gay
gene, but several genes that work together are seem to be identified with being
gay. Well, actually, the combination does not "cause
gayness," it causes a strong attraction to men. In males this seems to be
related to homosexuality. But those gene combinations are also found in females
who "mate earlier and more often" than those women who don't have
the gene. In fact, the "male attracted" gene combinations seem to run in
families, where the sisters of gay men have about 30% more children on average
than their peers who don't have the genes. The research is not
conclusive, but it is very interesting. And it suggests that I was, in fact,
born this way.