I'm excited to see byu's football program be kicked even further down
and further separated from the future of college football.BYU fans
are trying to tell themselves still its just a few socks, but even Vai seems
certain there was free/reduced rent being given to athletes.And the
chances it was a bishop giving a one time help to an out of town student?Ya, good luck, keep telling yourself it was just that and some socks.When the dust settles it will be clear there were several byu employees
involved, several students involved, and a very bad reflection on byu.Byu and/or the NCAA will come down hard(at least I hope they do)And the future of byu's relevance in college football will be even more
diminished. I'm excited to continue to watch the downfall.
There used to be a one in a million chance one of the big boy conferences was
going to save the byu football program from permanent division II status along
with the rest of the mid-majors as the power 5 separates ourselves from the
mid-majors. You know, the Lloyd Christmas one in a million kind of chance. Now with these NCAA violations, that one in a million is now gone. byu, Utah state, Wyoming, and the rest of the mid-majors should start
coming up with their own playoff formatting if they ever want a chance to play
in one. As the power 5 continue to move on and leave behind the mid-majors, it
will be impossible for any mid-major to participate?Lawsuits to keep
byu in?LOLYa, and Wyoming should file a lawsuit
demanding they have access to the Pac 12 title gameKeep telling
yourselves that. I wonder how many scholarships will be lost and
players suspended for these rules violations. Nice to see byu brought a dose of
humility and reality.
The NCAA is just like any other organization, it must grow or die.
Unfortunately, with so much money at stake the NCAA seems more like a
fast-growing, chaotic jungle controlling student-athlete civilization to the
point of strangulation.The NCAA should be an organization dedicated
to helping all students to become successful menmbers of society. It is okay to
have rules but they need to be enforced with compassion, mercy and love. In its current form the NCAA clearly needs some
A recent letter was sent out by Larry Scott with input from all Pac 12
presidents to all the commissioners and presidents of each school in the SEC,
ACC, Big 10, and Big 12. In it Scott spelled out our plan to move beyond the
total control of the NCAA. This will enable the big conferences to start
offering more financial aid money to student athletes and will conference will
have more autonomy. Word is that the other conferences fully agree and we are
all together in our effort to establish a new format. It will hurt smaller
schools and conferences that wish they were on the same level, but they
aren't. If will give the "haves" more and the "have nots"
even less.And that's life.
A major news organization tweeted today that BYU will join the Big 12. I for one
@Cosmo - Utah will win 10 Rose Bowls before byu gets a Big 12 invite.LOL - you're like Ernest T Bass huh? Keep it up!
@Cosmo's CousinA major news organization tweeted today that Utah will
go to a bowl game this year. I for one believe!
@big 12Utah won't win 10 Rose Bowls in a hundred years.
Somebody must of thought it would be a good idea for this column in terms of
shoring up support with the fan base. But it sure seems odd to try and round up
the strays by lobbing additional, blatant, and perhaps serious NCAA violations
into the herd. I'm not sure that helps.
@BlueHusky, and byU wont get invited to the Big 12 in that time either
@Cosmo:I believe that KSL's twitter account was hacked. I have
read that that is where the Big 12 announcement came from.Sorry!
@VegasUte," I have read that that is where the Big 12
announcement came from" Where did you read that from?
@Christopher B and Did the big 12 call yet, what part in the article did you not
understand where Vai said "every" university is operating in a grey
area? Do you not remember Rick Majerus getting in trouble with the NCAA for
doing basically the same thing with Keith Van Horn? How many Tongans are on the
Ute's team? Did you not read how they are probably violating the NCAA
rules also? This is not a BYU v Utah situation. Take off your hater glasses.
It looks like there is a lot less is going on here than meets the eye.Am I the only who has noticed that what is missing from all these allegations
of wrong-doing is any even approaching a "corrupt motive?" Nobody even
suggests that was about recruiting, fixing games, or bribery. Meanwhile the
supposed culprit perpetrating these alleged NCAA crimes is described by everyone
(and I mean EVERYBODY) in terms usually reserved for Mother Teresa.Its time for the NCAA to pick up the yellow flag and wave this one off.
@VegasThe Twitter feed may or may not have been hacked. Either way,
the Big 12 has to expand and BYU will be by far the best choice out there. The
Big 12 asked BYU to join before but BYU can afford to be picky and wait for the
best conference situation possible.Ute fans are threatened because
major conferences will want BYU. The Cougars will go into either the Big 12 or
the Big 10, which ever offers the best deal for BYU sports and BYU's higher
obama10,What part of byu broke NCAA rules do you not understand?If byu broke rules, and it appears serious ones were broke, they should
be harshly punished and further relegated to a position far away from relevance,
even more than they are now
@Blue Husky"Utah won't win 10 Rose Bowls in a hundred
years."I will make one correction to your statement: Eliminate
the word "Rose".
Great story. It is a mess but it is the mess all schools must do their best to
live under. Always love your stuff.Go Utes.
Cosmo's Cousin "the Big 12 has to expand and BYU will be by far the
best choice out there."The Big12 fantasy always boil down to
this: "the Big12 will HAVE to take us".Contrast that with
the Utes. The PAC didn't have to take Utah. They wanted to take Utah.
Look I hate to be the realist in all this but BYUs chances of ever getting to a
national championship, major conference or not, are about the same as
Utah's chances of ever getting there either. Utah would have to win the
PAC12 championship. "LOL"BYU would have to be in a major
conference, most likely, and do they have any better chance? Probably not. Pick
your poison...irrelevance with the big boys that will always out recruit U and
render you to the bottom rung, or irrelevance by never playing with the big
boys. The outcome is the same. Hate to burst Chris' bubble and all his
hater multiple personalities, but U will never be relevant either.There are about 20 elite programs and U aren't one of them. Enjoy the Sun
Bow, every 6-7 years. Yay! Good for U, but that's reality.GO
COUGS!GO DAWGS! (One of the truly elite programs Utah will never measure
Vai, I was never in sports, no talent, no will to sacrifice my body. That said,
you make several great points. Something I don't understand with a
"full ride scholarship" is why food is not included in the package. It
seems to me that because athletes are very weight conscious with demands of
coaches and trying to put it on or take it off, food is an integral part of
sports. I would think a school would want to provide the necessary controlled
menus for their athletes. You mention cultures, which is extremely
important. Family obligations, as you mention, can be interpreted in a variety
of ways which brings up the NCAA problems ad infinitum. I infer from your
column that it's time for a new honest look at NCAA rules. Some of them
seem beyond asinine. But don't ask me what they should be, I haven't
got a clue.
"A mid-major news organization tweeted today that BYU will join the Big
12."Weird. You'd think there would be something about that on
the major Entertainment Sports Programming Network. Instead just a story about
the Big 12 believing their round robin format puts them in an excellent position
for the national playoffs. Apparently they're not getting the message that
they need a CCG to succeed.
CougsndawgsWest Point , UTThere are about 20 elite programs
and U aren't one of them. Enjoy the Sun Bow, every 6-7 years. Yay! Good for
U, but that's reality.GO COUGS!GO DAWGS! (One of the
truly elite programs Utah will never measure up to).____________Interesting that you poke fun at the Sun Bowl. BYU has its sights
set on lesser prearranged bowl games. Yay! Good for BYU, but that's
WACPad:Difference: BYU goes to a bowl every year...notice I said every 6-7
years for U. Yep...that's reality. I wonder if Vandy fans talk as much
smack about being the bottom rung of a more elite conference than U (though
Vandy wasn't bad last year and got to go to a 2nd/3rd tier bowl for their
efforts...good for them). Answer...they don't. They know their place at the
table...eating the big boys scraps. I guess it will take a few more years for
ute fans to learn their place as well.SoonerUte:As a Big 12
fan how will you feel when (not if) a Big 12 team, especially Oklahoma, gets
left out after a team wins their CCG and gets the nod ahead of the Big 12. And
how,long will the P5 be ok with the Big 12 not "earning" their way by
winning a CCG. That's why I believe the Big 12 will have to expand at some
point. Whether BYU gets the invite or not I don't really know, they may
have already cooked their goose in that regard. But the Big 12 will have to
expand at some point.
Even though I think some of these rules are dumb and outdated, BYU should get
punished for breaking them, plain and simple. Now to the whole conference
conversation. SoonerUte, the Pac 10 had to take someone to get to 12. They
wanted to take Texas and Oklahoma, but they had to settle for Utah and Colorado.
So yes, they did "have" to take Utah in that respect.
Coungsndawgs "how will you feel when (not if) a Big 12 team, gets left out
after a team wins their CCG"Possible, but not likely. It has not been
stated that a CCG winner gets priority. I expect the Big12 vetted the
possibility. If they were worried about it, they would expand now, or would
have already expanded. Why wait for when (not if) it happens and then react?
The Big12 has been pretty proactive since the conference shuffle.More likely scenarios:An undefeated team is upset in CCG. Controversy
erupts when eitherA) the CCG loser gets a playoff spot anyway (The Big12
did this in the BCS).B) the CCG loser doesn't get a spot, and their
conference realized how costly a CCG can be.5 conferences and 4
spots means at least 1 conference left out. That means eitherA) There is
enough money in the other bowls, that the left out conference doesn't
care.B) The playoffs expand to 8 teams, at which point the Big12 really
doesn't need to expand. Why would BYU give up independence? With 8 slots
they have a shot maybe even with a mid-major schedule.
sky2k1 "the Pac 10 had to take someone to get to 12. They did "have"
to take Utah in that respect."The Pac 10 didn't have to
expand to 12. They wanted to expand. They invited the teams they wanted. The
result is a league with more revenue than the B1G or SEC.
The NCAA should spend their time, money and energy on investigating the
injustice of the so-called "Power 5" and the monopoly they have with the
bowls and subsequent money. And the term "mid-major" is inflammatory.
It's bigoted. It's belittling. Where's the ACLU on this one? All
D-1 schools should have an equal opportunity to compete.
Look, Chris B and his cohorts are mere gnats buzzing around a light bulb.Look at the scenarios:1) "Big 5 conferences will split off
from the NCAA." How many of their schools would be able to afford that?
Paying jocks? Etc. Most are struggling to stay alive now. I'll believe it
when I see it. Can you spell ANTITRUST? Better learn.2) "BYU will
never make a big conference." Well, if they have to go to 16 teams, BYU will
be in the mix. Whe else they gonna pick? Utah State?3) "BYU will be
shut down by the NCAA for their serious violations." Well, anybody wanna bet
$1000 on it? Didn't think so.4) "BYU just keeps on being
BYU." They're on TV every week, they play nationwide, and they play
PAC-12 teams in the Holiday, Vegas, Fight Hunger, etc. games. Not so bad,
really. After all, in those meaningless bowl games, BYU has played Oregon, OSU,
Washington, Cal, Arizona, UCLA, WSU, ...Maybe Utah will be good
enough to get into the Fight Hunger Bowl some day.
Question to the fans of my good old school, the UofU. Would Utah have to go to
a bowl to win it? That might be the first goal.
Blue HuskyHere are some fun facts. Here is a quote from
an ESPN article today about the SEC demanding more autonomy for itself and other
power conferences:"The Southeastern Conference sent a strong
message to the NCAA on Friday: provide the Power Five some autonomy or
they'll form their own division."We'll all be able to
afford if - are you not aware of how much money we're making? We're
drowning in money.Antitrust lawsuits will keep byu and mid majors
relevant?LOL - that one is my favorite.Ya, and why
can't Wyoming file a antitrust lawsuit and demand access to the Pac 12 or
SEC championship? Are you telling me Wyoming or other mid majors wouldn't
LOVE to be in the Pac 12? So why don't they just file an antitrust lawsuit
and demand access?Keep telling yourself you can invite yourself to
be with the big boys - we can keep you out just as we can keep you out of our
conference.As for 16 team superconferences, if we head there, there
are already 65 teams between the SEC, Pac 12, Big 10, ACC and Big 12. LOL.
Sorry - no more spots!
BlueHuskyLook at the scenarios:1) "Big 5 conferences will split
off from the NCAA."How many of their schools would be able to afford
that? Paying jocks?The poorest Big12 will get $30 million a year in TV and
Bowl revenues.Paying jocks? Drop in the bucket.Can you spell
ANTITRUST? Better learn.There is no antitrust between division 1 and
division 2 football today. Why would there be antitrust if division 4 forms?2) "BYU will never make a big conference." Well, if they have to
go to 16 teams...Why would conferences have to go to 16 teams? 5
Conferences of 16 teams is 80 teams.The 5 Conferences and Notre Dame have
65 teams. 64 is a nice tournament number.
All the Utah fans should spend less time on this comment section and more time
buying up Pac12 stickers. I travel all over the western united states and Utah
fans are only one I see displaying pac12 stickers on everything. I guess they
value their association more than actually winning games. Now, back
to the story. Spoke with a former SEC coach on a recent flight. SEC schools
have figured out the system. Why do so many of their players drive luxurious
cars? They lease them but are only required to make payments during the
summers. Amazingly they earn enough money in the summer to pay for the entire
year's lease payments. And the NCAA doesn't do a thing about this
well known practice.
I really enjoy Vai's columns. I can't understand why athletic
scholarships can't include living expenses. Heck, I had a scholarship
offer that included living expenses and it wasn't for a sport so why not
athletes? Just doesn't make sense. Also-- are people really so naive or
unfamiliar with these comment boards that they don't recognize sarcasm or a
troll's bait when they read it? There is NO twitter rumor about the Big12.
Chris & SoonerUte:You guys might want to look at the facts before
believing or stating who can and can't afford paying players. There are
only a handful of programs (BYU is one of them) that run in the black right now.
With all this supposed money these programs are making they certainly
aren't keeping to budget...they're all losing money. Please explain
how this is so and how paying players (remember this is insurance and medical
expenses also) is a "drop in the bucket". Texas is in the red, Oklahoma
is in the red, Ohio state is in the red, Utah is in the red...please enlighten
us as to how these added expenses will be paid. Tuition hikes? Increased ticket
prices? Food stamp-like nutrition programs? U aren't "drowning in
money" when you're running at an annual deficit, you're drowning
in red ink, which is certainly fitting. Maybe you can bathe your MUSS flags in
it before every home game...just to remind people how red your ledger looks.
There is an incredible amount of misinformation being spread about 'Grant
In Aid'. Many years ago I was an athlete on the hill. I was given
Tuition, Free Book Rental (yep, we had to return the books at the end of the
term. I there wasn't a book there a purchase was made for me), I chose to
live off campus and was given a Stipend (money in my pocket for rent), and a
food card for useon campus. I did pay for fees out of pocket...about $40 per
term as I remember. More recently, my daughter was a 'Grant In Aid'
athlete much futher south. She also recieved an Academic Tuition Waiver. What
to do? Give her the value of the Athletic 'Grant' as cash...all
perfectly acceptable. I was able to give her all of the money that I
wanted...no violation. I have several grandchildren that will also be
student-athletes. I/We follow the rules. No excuses. No petty justifications.
This tour by BYU apologists is nauseating. BYU is supposed to be a light in
the darkness and that applies to the football team. Mr. Busby was not a
'poly' helping an athlete from poverty.
...continued. He was the Director of Football Operations, the ultimate insider.
He worked in BYU athletics for almost 2 decades, there are no excuses. If
these allegations prove to be true, I truly hope with all my heart that thay are
not, the shame that will be cast is immeasurable. Riddle me this, how can a
drunken heathen from the 'Hill' and his offspring understand NCAA
benefits rules and the well mannered and supremely educated athletic staff at
BYU not? Is it that Coach Edwards went to USU and U of U? Coach Crowton went
to...oops he's a coug. Coach Mendenhalls inferior education at Oregon
State?I am not going to delve into my background except to say that
I didn't have a silverspoon. My father was a truck driver...no wealth
there.Mr. Sikahema, your opinion is just a little bit disingenuous.
The rules were explained to you, if not that is a failing of your chosen school.
SoonerUte:In terms of a CCG, I think what you're forgetting (and the
Big 12 is getting criticized for...albeit mostly by fans) is that by playing in
a CCG another program adds to it's SOS and adds another game against a P5
school, and one that very likely may be in the top 25...late in the year. We
know that these will be heavily weighted in the committee's decision, so
the possibility is very strong that a Big 12 team getting left out could
(probably will) happen. And lets not pretend that the Big 12 is good at vetting
or understanding what is best for them in the long run. It was their lack of
foresight that got them into trouble in 2010 & then again in 2011 (they
should have replaced Nebraska and Colorado right away, but didn't and
nearly lost everything because of it). If they want stability, and to play on
equal ground with the other P5 conferences they will have to expand...and
I'm certainly not the only one, fans or experts, saying this.I
agree if it goes to 8 teams this is all a moot point, and we move forward.
SoonerUte, You are living in a fantasy world. The Pac expansion plan
was to raid the Big 12 and grab Texas and Oklahoma and create a super conference
in the west. What happened was that they got ahead of themselves and the
Buffaloes jumped and the teams they really wanted blew them off. This left the
Pac with an uneven number and they need a school to fill the void. It was a
mishap and your medical school (a good one, at that) that got the utes into the
Pac, not the football team. P.S. Vai did a good job on the article.
Well stated from many perspectives without excusing BYU.
What an excellent article. The NCAA is a dinosaur that is no longer relavant.
The NCAA reminds me of the Pharisee's and Sadducees of Christ's time.
They are enforces of their own mindboogling rules. Student athletes should
receive compensation to pay for all the costs of education and proper medical
care. It is beyond belief that they haven't been challenged in court on so
many of their stupid decisions. I'm glad people rose up to get rid of the
Edsel and perhaps soon we will be rid of the NCAA or at least knock it down a
notch or two.
@BlueRampageYou are completely and totally wrong and you can't
do math. Colorado was offered first, then the possibility of getting:Texas,
Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State came up.PAC10 + Colorado +
TX+TT+OK+OKST = 15 + Utah = 16.And none of this has a thing to do
with the article. In case you didn't read it, it is about how BYU athletes
have been breaking NCAA rules for decades.
Cougndawgs "CCG adds to SOS" LSU plays 8 conference games, 1 B1G
game, and maybe the CCG. That's 10 P5 games.OU plays 9 conference
games, and 1 SEC for a total of 10 P5 games.The Big12 is on even SOS
footing with CCG champs.The Big12 is ahead of any other P5 school that
didn't make the CCG.If Auburn and Mizzou return to the CCG, every
Big12 team will have played 10 P5 games to LSU's 9."Big12... lack of foresight that got them into trouble in 2010 & then
again in 2011"I directly said "been pretty proactive since the
conference shuffle". In other words, they were caught off guard once and
won't be again."If they want stability..."They
are stable."...to play on equal ground..."10 P5 games
equals 10 P5 gamesI respect that you, "fans, and experts"
insist the Big12 must expand. The Big12 and I disagree. If the Big12 is
snubbed because of CCG-SOS effect, there are alternatives to expansion. It
would be easier to eliminate mid-majors from the schedule and add another major.
No TV contracts to change, and no reduced revenue from adding more members.
To all those Utah "fans" who are taking pleasure in BYU's struggles
right now, whether its the P5 situation or possible NCAA violations....what a
complete and utter lack of good sportsmanship. Everyone knows that if the
situations were reversed, Utah "fans" would be saying the same things
BYU fans are.
The NCAA has either got to change how theygovern or be replaced. The
nitpicking asininerules and penalties defy logic and hurt collegesports.
SoonerUte:I respect your opinion, but we'll just have to agree to
disagree. Maybe we can bet a milkshake on it or something. I'm also not
saying that BYU would be their choice when the Big 12 expands...they may not be.
Btw in your analysis you didn't look at the defending national
champion. They have 11 P5 opponents including Ok St, ND, and Florida. If they
play in the CCG they will have 12. There are plenty of others who have 10 P5
teams on the schedule, and adding the CCG would make it 11...one more than a Big
12 team, and more impressive to the selection committee. It will be interesting
to see what happens in the Big 12's future. You say they are
stable...well they are for now. What happens when GORs expire? What happens if
the P5 want to make things even by becoming the P4? Which conference stands on
the shakiest ground right now? Probably a tie between the ACC & Big 12...not
a position I would want to be in.
Poor Christopher..."As for 16 team superconferences, if we head
there, there are already 65 teams between the SEC, Pac 12, Big 10, ACC and Big
12. LOL. Sorry - no more spots!"Chris needs a math lesson: 5 x
16 = 80, and 80 - 65 = 15. Ergo there are 15 spots remaining.QEDNo need to be sorry.
Vai You are 100% perfect when you talk about the insanity that is the NCAA.
Their track record of ruining young person's lives is well documented. The
fact that the schools involved allow their practices to continue also speaks to
the inbred relationship between the NCAA and ALL of the 'manufactured'
compliance staffs in America.but a few clarifications are in
orderyou didn't spell out that a Football scholarship is by
definition room, board tuition and books WHILE class is in session. No
accommodations are made for Xmas, Spring or Summer breaks when kids are left to
fend for themselves. Also the 'room' is usually a single bed that you
share with a 300 pound lineman in a 10 x 10 room. And 'board' does NOT
include meals on Sunday and the rest of the week the food is on contract from
the low bidder. It is (unlike popular opinion) FAR from glamorous.Finally Reggie's mom & stepdad where paying $800 a month for a modest
3 bedroom house. They were getting the deal because the ex-con, non-agent,
friend of the stepdad was doing these things to get Reggie to LEAVE USC
......... so he could start his wanna-be sports agency
The NCAA has a problem on its hands both from the athletes and the conferences.
The SEC and others are sick of getting sued because they are not allowed to
properly compensate athletes (as per NCAA rules) and the athletes are likely
going to win a legal battle allowing them to form a union. It's
time for the NCAA to allow "extra benefits" for athletes before college
athletics are torn apart by union strikes and conference secession. It's
time to end the exploitation and allow compensation.
Vai is right. If you don't believe the NCAA's motives are corrupt or
that programs are forced into the gray areas, then watching the documentary
"Schooled" on Netflix might be a good place to start. I'll say
this much: Most schools estimate the worth of a "full-ride" scholarship
to be $2,000 to $3,000 less than the cost of attending school. So where do the
athletes get that extra money when they already have a full-time school on top
of practices, games, and so on?
Its clear that if the allegations prove to be true the cry from Cougar
supporters will be as follows:The rules are stupid... no one can
understand the rules... everyone violates the rules... the rule breaking was
done out of love.From a coaching staff that is all about integrity
and honor how is it so difficult to teach the athletes not to accept anything
from a booster that is free or discounted... seems pretty simple if integrity is
really the foundation of BYU athletics.
Howard S.The rules ARE stupid and they're broken every day on
every major college football campus... anybody who denies that the same types of
things are happening at the U, is living in fantasy land.The
"Poly-culture" that Vai referred to is just as alive and well on the
hill as it is in Provo.
@ Chris B - Salt Lake City, UT "obama10, What part of byu broke NCAA rules
do you not understand? If byu broke rules, and it appears serious ones were
broke, they should be harshly punished and further relegated to a position far
away from relevance, even more than they are now."So, if your
beloved University of Utah had a guy, who by everyone's account but yours
is an extremely generous and kind person, who violated the NCAA's rules,
you'd be screaming at the top of your lungs for the Utah football program
to be punished, and punished severely, right?Riiiiiight.....Of course you'll come on this forum and claim you would.However, no one, not BYU fans or your fellow Utah fans, will believe you.Sorry, your hundreds and hundreds of inflammatory comments gave you away
along time ago.
Howard:First, BYU is actually who started the investigation because they
knew they were in the wrong. Sounds to me like they're taking
responsibility, not making excuses. The rest of us fans, and sport writers can
and do understand that the NCAA is a joke and their rules are absurd in
today's landscape. That's not making excuses for breaking
rules...it's questioning the rules so they can be changed...you know, like
what the P5 conferences are requesting with "more flexibility".
BleedCougarBlueLet's just say, we have some very good friends
who are Poly's, and we've invited to many of the types of events Vai
speaks of. I've personnally seen known BYU and Utah boosters give cash to
BYU and Utah student athletes, which according to a strict interpretation of the
rules, is a violation of current NCAA rules.As usual, Chris B is
blowing this BYU "investigation" way out proportion. There were no
"major" NCAA rules violations, unless you consider allow an athlete to
sleep on a couch for a couple of days before his dorm or apartment is available
is a "major" rules violation. The types of infractions being
investigated are third-tier types of infractions, which will, at most, result in
some mild wrist slapping, nothing more.
Vai,I'm disappointed to see you join the throngs of former
Cougar players, fans and alumni who are using a variety of justifications to
excuse wrongdoing. I am all for seeking to change the rules that don't
make sense, but openly breaking the rules isn't the right way to bring
about change. You seem to be saying that this isn't a big deal, because
everybody does it. Or it's okay, because some of the players come from
poor families who are struggling. Is that really the message you want to send?
Or that your allegations regarding the NCAA's motivation make it okay to
break the rules? That doesn't seem to be consistent with what BYU stands
Cougsndawgs "What happens when GORs expire? What happens if the P5 want to
make things even by becoming the P4?"Interesting questions. Both lend
to my opinion that the days of conference expansion are over. The P5 seem quite
comfortable drawing the line at the 65 teams they have. 65 teams evenly divides
into 5 conferences. There may, however, be conference realignment. It would
nice to see teams realign to restore traditional rivalries. (Come home,
Nebraska!)It would be more "even" to have 4 conferences, but
geographically that has never worked. Expanding the PAC to 16 teams means
picking 4 from the Central Time Zone, which doesn't make sense.
Mormon UteAll "holier than thou" sentiment.So
what would you do if a player from a poor family arrived on campus and
couldn't move into his dorm/apartment for a few days - tell him,
"sorry, but you'll have to sleep on the street?"What
you're decrying as "breaking the rules" in many cases is nothing
more than good people showing Christian charity. They're not acts designed
to give BYU any sort of competitive advantage, in fact, you could probably find
hundreds of examples of non-athletes being helped in similar situations.
SoonerUteThere's nothing special about 64 or 65 teams; what
makes you so certain that if conferences realign, the elite teams like USC,
UCLA, and Stanford won't decide to jettison the riffraff like Washington
St, Colorado, and Utah, and just go to 32 teams?That's what the
big boys really want, an elite team only league where they don't have to
share any of the spoils with the conference groupies who don't contribute
@old by stupidThe superconferences will be FOUR conferences of 16
teams.That has widely been predicted among many sports experts.Not five.LOL!You thought byu had an opening.
LOL. 4 superconferenes, not 5. I'm happy to provide references if you
ND95CA,The elite teams like USC, UCLA, and Stanford voted just a
couple years ago to ADD Utah and Colorado. Why?Because
we add enough value such that adding uss gave them even more money.The Pac 12 and Big 12 faced similar questions regarding inviting byu. Both
conferences came to the conclusion they are better NOT adding byu.
Chris BWhat makes U so sure Utah will be included in a mass
conference reshuffling from 5 power conferences to 4?IF such a
massive reshuffling does happen, the big boys could just as easily decide to
form their only little cadre of elite teams like USC, UCLA, Stanford, Ohio St,
Michigan, et. al. and leave all of the weak teams like Colorado, Washington St,
Indiana, Duke, Vanderbilt and Utah completely out of the mix.Four
power football conferences of 8 teams each would work just as well.
ND65CA "There's nothing special about 64 or 65 teams; what makes you so
certain that if conferences realign, the elite teams... won't decide to
jettison the riffraff... and just go to 32 teams?"32 teams and
truly make it a mini-NFL, eh? We're probably headed down that road. Keep
in mind, though, that 51 different schools made the BCS bowls, so 32 cuts too
deep.There isn't anything special about 65 teams, but its
roughly half of the division 1 schools. They have talked about splitting
division 1 again, like the FBS/FCS split in 1978. In the perfect split you take
the top 64 teams regardless of conference affiliation. Perfection is
complicated contracts and agreements. A simpler solution is to
split off the P5 conferences and Notre Dame. Are those schools the best 65?
No, but it is a pretty close. That's certainly a package which would sell
well to the networks.Today, schools can "graduate" from FCS
to FBS (Texas State for example). I expect teams could move back and forth if
they create Division 4. It all depends on qualifications and willingness to
swoop,The Pac 12 already had the chance to stay at 10 and leave out
Colorado and Utah. They studied the issue and realized we added enough value to
justify adding us. We(the pac 12) and the big 12 have made similar reviews of
byu and we both came to the conclusion that byu did NOT add enough value to
I totally agree with you Vai. The rules make common sense a violation.We have allowed the sport to be hijacked by people who can't think for
themselves and make good decisions without getting together as a committee and
wasting everyones time.Keep calling a spade a spade!
SoonerUte"Keep in mind, though, that 51 different schools made
the BCS bowls, so 32 cuts too deep."How many of those 51 have
won a national championship, a Heisman Trophy, and have been perennial Top 25
teams for the last 30 years?That would narrow the field
considerably.------------"A simpler solution is to
split off the P5 conferences and Notre Dame. Are those schools the best 65? No,
but it is a pretty close."The elite teams aren't looking
for a "simpler" solution, they're looking for a way to permanently
seal their status as elite programs and shut everybody else out - teams like
USC, UCLA, Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Ohio State, Michigan, Florida, LSU,
Georgia, Florida State, Miami, Penn State and Notre Dame would be perfectly
happy forming their own version of the NFL, major college football style.Teams like Oregon State, Washington State, Colorado and Utah would be
considered just as much interlopers into their elite inner sanctum as any
mid-major.Why would USC or UCLA share their west coast piece of the
pie, if they could keep it all for themselves?Utah fans who think
that Utah's status is rock solid are only fooling themselves.
BlueCoug "looking for a way to permanently seal their status as elite
programs and shut everybody else out" and "perfectly happy forming their
own version of the NFL".I've not heard of any mini-NFL plan
like you describe, where "USC becomes the LA Rams" or "Oregon
becomes the Seattle Seahawks".You say "elite programs",
but the talk is "elite conferences" separating themselves from the pack
either completely (see Division 4) or through bylaws (see Power 5 Conference
SoonerUteMore "autonomy" for the P5 conferences is just
another way of saying more "autonomy" for the elite programs.Do you really think that Alabama is seeking more autonomy so that Ole Miss can
pay its players a "stipend"?No, Alabama is looking for ways
to permanently seal its dominance over Ole Miss.It's a turf war
out there and the elite programs are only looking out for #1.
Alls I know is its ok because we do it with honesty in our hearts.
@ Blue Rampage:your medical school (a good one, at that) that got
the utes into the Pac, not the football team. The U of U medical
school is an average Medical school as far as U.S. Medical schools are rated.
They are in the 2nd Quartile, about halfway from the top to the bottom. Now
compared to Mexican Medical schools they are probably top class.The
philosophy at the U medical school is not to enroll the most qualified but to
enroll a diverse class based on race, gender and nationality. Which leave a
shortage of doctors that are willing to locate to rural Utah. With that type of
selection process they probably won't surpass the median.
Solomon Levi,The rules are the rules and if that example Vai and you
gave happens as much as Vai implies, programs should be smart enough to have
come up with a solution that is within the rules. Vai and his Bishop should
have known better. I was told by a police officer years ago that ignorance is
no excuse for breaking the law and neither is doing a good deed. Robin Hood may
have helped a lot of people, but he still broke the law.