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Vai's View: NCAA lives to quell any threat to its pocket book

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  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    May 30, 2014 12:56 p.m.

    I'm excited to see byu's football program be kicked even further down and further separated from the future of college football.

    BYU fans are trying to tell themselves still its just a few socks, but even Vai seems certain there was free/reduced rent being given to athletes.

    And the chances it was a bishop giving a one time help to an out of town student?

    Ya, good luck, keep telling yourself it was just that and some socks.

    When the dust settles it will be clear there were several byu employees involved, several students involved, and a very bad reflection on byu.

    Byu and/or the NCAA will come down hard(at least I hope they do)

    And the future of byu's relevance in college football will be even more diminished.

    I'm excited to continue to watch the downfall.

  • Big 12 Call Yet? Ogden, UT
    May 30, 2014 1:01 p.m.

    There used to be a one in a million chance one of the big boy conferences was going to save the byu football program from permanent division II status along with the rest of the mid-majors as the power 5 separates ourselves from the mid-majors. You know, the Lloyd Christmas one in a million kind of chance.

    Now with these NCAA violations, that one in a million is now gone.

    byu, Utah state, Wyoming, and the rest of the mid-majors should start coming up with their own playoff formatting if they ever want a chance to play in one. As the power 5 continue to move on and leave behind the mid-majors, it will be impossible for any mid-major to participate?

    Lawsuits to keep byu in?

    LOL

    Ya, and Wyoming should file a lawsuit demanding they have access to the Pac 12 title game

    Keep telling yourselves that.

    I wonder how many scholarships will be lost and players suspended for these rules violations. Nice to see byu brought a dose of humility and reality.

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    May 30, 2014 1:19 p.m.

    The NCAA is just like any other organization, it must grow or die. Unfortunately, with so much money at stake the NCAA seems more like a fast-growing, chaotic jungle controlling student-athlete civilization to the point of strangulation.

    The NCAA should be an organization dedicated to helping all students to become successful menmbers of society. It is okay to have rules but they need to be enforced with compassion, mercy and love.

    In its current form the NCAA clearly needs some student/faculty/alumni/fan oversight!

  • Ken Sandy, UT
    May 30, 2014 1:29 p.m.

    A recent letter was sent out by Larry Scott with input from all Pac 12 presidents to all the commissioners and presidents of each school in the SEC, ACC, Big 10, and Big 12. In it Scott spelled out our plan to move beyond the total control of the NCAA. This will enable the big conferences to start offering more financial aid money to student athletes and will conference will have more autonomy. Word is that the other conferences fully agree and we are all together in our effort to establish a new format. It will hurt smaller schools and conferences that wish they were on the same level, but they aren't. If will give the "haves" more and the "have nots" even less.

    And that's life.

  • Cosmo's Cousin Holladay, UT
    May 30, 2014 1:30 p.m.

    A major news organization tweeted today that BYU will join the Big 12. I for one believe!

  • Big 12 Call Yet? Ogden, UT
    May 30, 2014 1:43 p.m.

    @Cosmo - Utah will win 10 Rose Bowls before byu gets a Big 12 invite.

    LOL - you're like Ernest T Bass huh? Keep it up!

  • Sports Are Great Salt Lake City, UT
    May 30, 2014 1:57 p.m.

    @Cosmo's Cousin
    A major news organization tweeted today that Utah will go to a bowl game this year. I for one believe!

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    May 30, 2014 1:58 p.m.

    @big 12
    Utah won't win 10 Rose Bowls in a hundred years.

  • One of a Few Layton, UT
    May 30, 2014 2:06 p.m.

    Somebody must of thought it would be a good idea for this column in terms of shoring up support with the fan base. But it sure seems odd to try and round up the strays by lobbing additional, blatant, and perhaps serious NCAA violations into the herd. I'm not sure that helps.

  • Lifelong Ute Salt Lake City, UT
    May 30, 2014 2:06 p.m.

    @BlueHusky, and byU wont get invited to the Big 12 in that time either

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    May 30, 2014 2:19 p.m.

    @Cosmo:

    I believe that KSL's twitter account was hacked. I have read that that is where the Big 12 announcement came from.

    Sorry!

  • Lifelong Ute Salt Lake City, UT
    May 30, 2014 2:26 p.m.

    @VegasUte,

    " I have read that that is where the Big 12 announcement came from"

    Where did you read that from?

  • Obama10 SYRACUSE, UT
    May 30, 2014 2:31 p.m.

    @Christopher B and Did the big 12 call yet, what part in the article did you not understand where Vai said "every" university is operating in a grey area? Do you not remember Rick Majerus getting in trouble with the NCAA for doing basically the same thing with Keith Van Horn? How many Tongans are on the Ute's team? Did you not read how they are probably violating the NCAA rules also? This is not a BYU v Utah situation. Take off your hater glasses.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    May 30, 2014 2:33 p.m.

    It looks like there is a lot less is going on here than meets the eye.

    Am I the only who has noticed that what is missing from all these allegations of wrong-doing is any even approaching a "corrupt motive?" Nobody even suggests that was about recruiting, fixing games, or bribery. Meanwhile the supposed culprit perpetrating these alleged NCAA crimes is described by everyone (and I mean EVERYBODY) in terms usually reserved for Mother Teresa.

    Its time for the NCAA to pick up the yellow flag and wave this one off.

  • Cosmo's Cousin Holladay, UT
    May 30, 2014 2:40 p.m.

    @Vegas

    The Twitter feed may or may not have been hacked. Either way, the Big 12 has to expand and BYU will be by far the best choice out there. The Big 12 asked BYU to join before but BYU can afford to be picky and wait for the best conference situation possible.

    Ute fans are threatened because major conferences will want BYU. The Cougars will go into either the Big 12 or the Big 10, which ever offers the best deal for BYU sports and BYU's higher cause.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 30, 2014 2:58 p.m.

    obama10,

    What part of byu broke NCAA rules do you not understand?

    If byu broke rules, and it appears serious ones were broke, they should be harshly punished and further relegated to a position far away from relevance, even more than they are now

  • 1978 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 30, 2014 3:07 p.m.

    @Blue Husky

    "Utah won't win 10 Rose Bowls in a hundred years."

    I will make one correction to your statement: Eliminate the word "Rose".

  • Big J Bountiful, UT
    May 30, 2014 3:12 p.m.

    Great story. It is a mess but it is the mess all schools must do their best to live under. Always love your stuff.

    Go Utes.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 30, 2014 3:45 p.m.

    Cosmo's Cousin "the Big 12 has to expand and BYU will be by far the best choice out there."

    The Big12 fantasy always boil down to this: "the Big12 will HAVE to take us".

    Contrast that with the Utes. The PAC didn't have to take Utah. They wanted to take Utah.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 30, 2014 3:52 p.m.

    Look I hate to be the realist in all this but BYUs chances of ever getting to a national championship, major conference or not, are about the same as Utah's chances of ever getting there either. Utah would have to win the PAC12 championship. "LOL"

    BYU would have to be in a major conference, most likely, and do they have any better chance? Probably not. Pick your poison...irrelevance with the big boys that will always out recruit U and render you to the bottom rung, or irrelevance by never playing with the big boys. The outcome is the same. Hate to burst Chris' bubble and all his hater multiple personalities, but U will never be relevant either.

    There are about 20 elite programs and U aren't one of them. Enjoy the Sun Bow, every 6-7 years. Yay! Good for U, but that's reality.

    GO COUGS!
    GO DAWGS! (One of the truly elite programs Utah will never measure up to).

  • haunyocker Springville, UT
    May 30, 2014 4:02 p.m.

    Vai, I was never in sports, no talent, no will to sacrifice my body. That said, you make several great points. Something I don't understand with a "full ride scholarship" is why food is not included in the package. It seems to me that because athletes are very weight conscious with demands of coaches and trying to put it on or take it off, food is an integral part of sports. I would think a school would want to provide the necessary controlled menus for their athletes.

    You mention cultures, which is extremely important. Family obligations, as you mention, can be interpreted in a variety of ways which brings up the NCAA problems ad infinitum. I infer from your column that it's time for a new honest look at NCAA rules. Some of them seem beyond asinine. But don't ask me what they should be, I haven't got a clue.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 30, 2014 4:18 p.m.

    "A mid-major news organization tweeted today that BYU will join the Big 12."
    Weird. You'd think there would be something about that on the major Entertainment Sports Programming Network. Instead just a story about the Big 12 believing their round robin format puts them in an excellent position for the national playoffs. Apparently they're not getting the message that they need a CCG to succeed.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 30, 2014 4:27 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs
    West Point , UT

    There are about 20 elite programs and U aren't one of them. Enjoy the Sun Bow, every 6-7 years. Yay! Good for U, but that's reality.

    GO COUGS!
    GO DAWGS! (One of the truly elite programs Utah will never measure up to).

    ____________

    Interesting that you poke fun at the Sun Bowl.
    BYU has its sights set on lesser prearranged bowl games. Yay! Good for BYU, but that's reality.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 30, 2014 5:08 p.m.

    WACPad:
    Difference: BYU goes to a bowl every year...notice I said every 6-7 years for U. Yep...that's reality. I wonder if Vandy fans talk as much smack about being the bottom rung of a more elite conference than U (though Vandy wasn't bad last year and got to go to a 2nd/3rd tier bowl for their efforts...good for them). Answer...they don't. They know their place at the table...eating the big boys scraps. I guess it will take a few more years for ute fans to learn their place as well.

    SoonerUte:
    As a Big 12 fan how will you feel when (not if) a Big 12 team, especially Oklahoma, gets left out after a team wins their CCG and gets the nod ahead of the Big 12. And how,long will the P5 be ok with the Big 12 not "earning" their way by winning a CCG. That's why I believe the Big 12 will have to expand at some point. Whether BYU gets the invite or not I don't really know, they may have already cooked their goose in that regard. But the Big 12 will have to expand at some point.

  • sky2k1 Provo, UT
    May 30, 2014 5:12 p.m.

    Even though I think some of these rules are dumb and outdated, BYU should get punished for breaking them, plain and simple. Now to the whole conference conversation. SoonerUte, the Pac 10 had to take someone to get to 12. They wanted to take Texas and Oklahoma, but they had to settle for Utah and Colorado. So yes, they did "have" to take Utah in that respect.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 30, 2014 6:00 p.m.

    Coungsndawgs "how will you feel when (not if) a Big 12 team, gets left out after a team wins their CCG"
    Possible, but not likely. It has not been stated that a CCG winner gets priority. I expect the Big12 vetted the possibility. If they were worried about it, they would expand now, or would have already expanded. Why wait for when (not if) it happens and then react? The Big12 has been pretty proactive since the conference shuffle.

    More likely scenarios:
    An undefeated team is upset in CCG. Controversy erupts when either
    A) the CCG loser gets a playoff spot anyway (The Big12 did this in the BCS).
    B) the CCG loser doesn't get a spot, and their conference realized how costly a CCG can be.

    5 conferences and 4 spots means at least 1 conference left out. That means either
    A) There is enough money in the other bowls, that the left out conference doesn't care.
    B) The playoffs expand to 8 teams, at which point the Big12 really doesn't need to expand. Why would BYU give up independence? With 8 slots they have a shot maybe even with a mid-major schedule.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 30, 2014 6:05 p.m.

    sky2k1 "the Pac 10 had to take someone to get to 12. They did "have" to take Utah in that respect."

    The Pac 10 didn't have to expand to 12. They wanted to expand. They invited the teams they wanted. The result is a league with more revenue than the B1G or SEC.

  • PizzInovations Chandler, AZ
    May 30, 2014 6:20 p.m.

    The NCAA should spend their time, money and energy on investigating the injustice of the so-called "Power 5" and the monopoly they have with the bowls and subsequent money. And the term "mid-major" is inflammatory. It's bigoted. It's belittling. Where's the ACLU on this one? All D-1 schools should have an equal opportunity to compete.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    May 30, 2014 9:48 p.m.

    Look, Chris B and his cohorts are mere gnats buzzing around a light bulb.

    Look at the scenarios:
    1) "Big 5 conferences will split off from the NCAA." How many of their schools would be able to afford that? Paying jocks? Etc. Most are struggling to stay alive now. I'll believe it when I see it. Can you spell ANTITRUST? Better learn.
    2) "BYU will never make a big conference." Well, if they have to go to 16 teams, BYU will be in the mix. Whe else they gonna pick? Utah State?
    3) "BYU will be shut down by the NCAA for their serious violations." Well, anybody wanna bet $1000 on it? Didn't think so.
    4) "BYU just keeps on being BYU." They're on TV every week, they play nationwide, and they play PAC-12 teams in the Holiday, Vegas, Fight Hunger, etc. games. Not so bad, really. After all, in those meaningless bowl games, BYU has played Oregon, OSU, Washington, Cal, Arizona, UCLA, WSU, ...

    Maybe Utah will be good enough to get into the Fight Hunger Bowl some day.

  • Cinci Man FT MITCHELL, KY
    May 30, 2014 10:21 p.m.

    Question to the fans of my good old school, the UofU. Would Utah have to go to a bowl to win it? That might be the first goal.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    May 30, 2014 10:34 p.m.

    Blue Husky

    Here are some fun facts.

    Here is a quote from an ESPN article today about the SEC demanding more autonomy for itself and other power conferences:

    "The Southeastern Conference sent a strong message to the NCAA on Friday: provide the Power Five some autonomy or they'll form their own division."

    We'll all be able to afford if - are you not aware of how much money we're making? We're drowning in money.

    Antitrust lawsuits will keep byu and mid majors relevant?

    LOL - that one is my favorite.

    Ya, and why can't Wyoming file a antitrust lawsuit and demand access to the Pac 12 or SEC championship? Are you telling me Wyoming or other mid majors wouldn't LOVE to be in the Pac 12? So why don't they just file an antitrust lawsuit and demand access?

    Keep telling yourself you can invite yourself to be with the big boys - we can keep you out just as we can keep you out of our conference.

    As for 16 team superconferences, if we head there, there are already 65 teams between the SEC, Pac 12, Big 10, ACC and Big 12. LOL. Sorry - no more spots!

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 30, 2014 10:37 p.m.

    BlueHusky
    Look at the scenarios:
    1) "Big 5 conferences will split off from the NCAA."
    How many of their schools would be able to afford that? Paying jocks?
    The poorest Big12 will get $30 million a year in TV and Bowl revenues.
    Paying jocks? Drop in the bucket.

    Can you spell ANTITRUST? Better learn.
    There is no antitrust between division 1 and division 2 football today. Why would there be antitrust if division 4 forms?

    2) "BYU will never make a big conference." Well, if they have to go to 16 teams...
    Why would conferences have to go to 16 teams? 5 Conferences of 16 teams is 80 teams.
    The 5 Conferences and Notre Dame have 65 teams. 64 is a nice tournament number.

  • wazzup Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 30, 2014 11:31 p.m.

    All the Utah fans should spend less time on this comment section and more time buying up Pac12 stickers. I travel all over the western united states and Utah fans are only one I see displaying pac12 stickers on everything. I guess they value their association more than actually winning games.

    Now, back to the story. Spoke with a former SEC coach on a recent flight. SEC schools have figured out the system. Why do so many of their players drive luxurious cars? They lease them but are only required to make payments during the summers. Amazingly they earn enough money in the summer to pay for the entire year's lease payments. And the NCAA doesn't do a thing about this well known practice.

  • souptwins Lindon, UT
    May 30, 2014 11:44 p.m.

    I really enjoy Vai's columns. I can't understand why athletic scholarships can't include living expenses. Heck, I had a scholarship offer that included living expenses and it wasn't for a sport so why not athletes? Just doesn't make sense. Also-- are people really so naive or unfamiliar with these comment boards that they don't recognize sarcasm or a troll's bait when they read it? There is NO twitter rumor about the Big12.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 31, 2014 12:00 a.m.

    Chris & SoonerUte:
    You guys might want to look at the facts before believing or stating who can and can't afford paying players. There are only a handful of programs (BYU is one of them) that run in the black right now. With all this supposed money these programs are making they certainly aren't keeping to budget...they're all losing money. Please explain how this is so and how paying players (remember this is insurance and medical expenses also) is a "drop in the bucket". Texas is in the red, Oklahoma is in the red, Ohio state is in the red, Utah is in the red...please enlighten us as to how these added expenses will be paid. Tuition hikes? Increased ticket prices? Food stamp-like nutrition programs? U aren't "drowning in money" when you're running at an annual deficit, you're drowning in red ink, which is certainly fitting. Maybe you can bathe your MUSS flags in it before every home game...just to remind people how red your ledger looks.

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    May 31, 2014 7:53 a.m.

    There is an incredible amount of misinformation being spread about 'Grant In Aid'. Many years ago I was an athlete on the hill. I was given Tuition, Free Book Rental (yep, we had to return the books at the end of the term. I there wasn't a book there a purchase was made for me), I chose to live off campus and was given a Stipend (money in my pocket for rent), and a food card for useon campus. I did pay for fees out of pocket...about $40 per term as I remember. More recently, my daughter was a 'Grant In Aid' athlete much futher south. She also recieved an Academic Tuition Waiver. What to do? Give her the value of the Athletic 'Grant' as cash...all perfectly acceptable. I was able to give her all of the money that I wanted...no violation. I have several grandchildren that will also be student-athletes. I/We follow the rules. No excuses. No petty justifications. This tour by BYU apologists is nauseating. BYU is supposed to be a light in the darkness and that applies to the football team. Mr. Busby was not a 'poly' helping an athlete from poverty.

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    May 31, 2014 8:01 a.m.

    ...continued. He was the Director of Football Operations, the ultimate insider. He worked in BYU athletics for almost 2 decades, there are no excuses. If these allegations prove to be true, I truly hope with all my heart that thay are not, the shame that will be cast is immeasurable. Riddle me this, how can a drunken heathen from the 'Hill' and his offspring understand NCAA benefits rules and the well mannered and supremely educated athletic staff at BYU not? Is it that Coach Edwards went to USU and U of U? Coach Crowton went to...oops he's a coug. Coach Mendenhalls inferior education at Oregon State?

    I am not going to delve into my background except to say that I didn't have a silverspoon. My father was a truck driver...no wealth there.

    Mr. Sikahema, your opinion is just a little bit disingenuous. The rules were explained to you, if not that is a failing of your chosen school.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 31, 2014 9:52 a.m.

    SoonerUte:
    In terms of a CCG, I think what you're forgetting (and the Big 12 is getting criticized for...albeit mostly by fans) is that by playing in a CCG another program adds to it's SOS and adds another game against a P5 school, and one that very likely may be in the top 25...late in the year. We know that these will be heavily weighted in the committee's decision, so the possibility is very strong that a Big 12 team getting left out could (probably will) happen. And lets not pretend that the Big 12 is good at vetting or understanding what is best for them in the long run. It was their lack of foresight that got them into trouble in 2010 & then again in 2011 (they should have replaced Nebraska and Colorado right away, but didn't and nearly lost everything because of it). If they want stability, and to play on equal ground with the other P5 conferences they will have to expand...and I'm certainly not the only one, fans or experts, saying this.

    I agree if it goes to 8 teams this is all a moot point, and we move forward.

  • Blue Rampage Salt Lake City, UT
    May 31, 2014 10:28 a.m.

    SoonerUte,

    You are living in a fantasy world. The Pac expansion plan was to raid the Big 12 and grab Texas and Oklahoma and create a super conference in the west. What happened was that they got ahead of themselves and the Buffaloes jumped and the teams they really wanted blew them off. This left the Pac with an uneven number and they need a school to fill the void. It was a mishap and your medical school (a good one, at that) that got the utes into the Pac, not the football team.

    P.S. Vai did a good job on the article. Well stated from many perspectives without excusing BYU.

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    May 31, 2014 12:04 p.m.

    What an excellent article. The NCAA is a dinosaur that is no longer relavant. The NCAA reminds me of the Pharisee's and Sadducees of Christ's time. They are enforces of their own mindboogling rules. Student athletes should receive compensation to pay for all the costs of education and proper medical care. It is beyond belief that they haven't been challenged in court on so many of their stupid decisions. I'm glad people rose up to get rid of the Edsel and perhaps soon we will be rid of the NCAA or at least knock it down a notch or two.

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    May 31, 2014 3:09 p.m.

    @BlueRampage

    You are completely and totally wrong and you can't do math. Colorado was offered first, then the possibility of getting:Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State came up.
    PAC10 + Colorado + TX+TT+OK+OKST = 15 + Utah = 16.

    And none of this has a thing to do with the article. In case you didn't read it, it is about how BYU athletes have been breaking NCAA rules for decades.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 31, 2014 3:25 p.m.

    Cougndawgs "CCG adds to SOS"
    LSU plays 8 conference games, 1 B1G game, and maybe the CCG. That's 10 P5 games.
    OU plays 9 conference games, and 1 SEC for a total of 10 P5 games.
    The Big12 is on even SOS footing with CCG champs.
    The Big12 is ahead of any other P5 school that didn't make the CCG.
    If Auburn and Mizzou return to the CCG, every Big12 team will have played 10 P5 games to LSU's 9.

    "Big12... lack of foresight that got them into trouble in 2010 & then again in 2011"
    I directly said "been pretty proactive since the conference shuffle". In other words, they were caught off guard once and won't be again.

    "If they want stability..."
    They are stable.

    "...to play on equal ground..."
    10 P5 games equals 10 P5 games

    I respect that you, "fans, and experts" insist the Big12 must expand. The Big12 and I disagree. If the Big12 is snubbed because of CCG-SOS effect, there are alternatives to expansion. It would be easier to eliminate mid-majors from the schedule and add another major. No TV contracts to change, and no reduced revenue from adding more members.

  • Cosmo1974 Woods Cross, UT
    May 31, 2014 4:59 p.m.

    To all those Utah "fans" who are taking pleasure in BYU's struggles right now, whether its the P5 situation or possible NCAA violations....what a complete and utter lack of good sportsmanship. Everyone knows that if the situations were reversed, Utah "fans" would be saying the same things BYU fans are.

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    May 31, 2014 7:14 p.m.

    The NCAA has either got to change how they
    govern or be replaced. The nitpicking asinine
    rules and penalties defy logic and hurt college
    sports.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 1, 2014 8:39 a.m.

    SoonerUte:
    I respect your opinion, but we'll just have to agree to disagree. Maybe we can bet a milkshake on it or something. I'm also not saying that BYU would be their choice when the Big 12 expands...they may not be.

    Btw in your analysis you didn't look at the defending national champion. They have 11 P5 opponents including Ok St, ND, and Florida. If they play in the CCG they will have 12. There are plenty of others who have 10 P5 teams on the schedule, and adding the CCG would make it 11...one more than a Big 12 team, and more impressive to the selection committee. It will be interesting to see what happens in the Big 12's future.

    You say they are stable...well they are for now. What happens when GORs expire? What happens if the P5 want to make things even by becoming the P4? Which conference stands on the shakiest ground right now? Probably a tie between the ACC & Big 12...not a position I would want to be in.

  • Old But Not Stupid Moorpark, CA
    June 1, 2014 8:55 a.m.

    Poor Christopher...

    "As for 16 team superconferences, if we head there, there are already 65 teams between the SEC, Pac 12, Big 10, ACC and Big 12. LOL. Sorry - no more spots!"

    Chris needs a math lesson: 5 x 16 = 80, and 80 - 65 = 15. Ergo there are 15 spots remaining.
    QED

    No need to be sorry.

  • SLCguy Murray, UT
    June 1, 2014 9:54 a.m.

    Vai You are 100% perfect when you talk about the insanity that is the NCAA. Their track record of ruining young person's lives is well documented. The fact that the schools involved allow their practices to continue also speaks to the inbred relationship between the NCAA and ALL of the 'manufactured' compliance staffs in America.

    but a few clarifications are in order

    you didn't spell out that a Football scholarship is by definition room, board tuition and books WHILE class is in session. No accommodations are made for Xmas, Spring or Summer breaks when kids are left to fend for themselves. Also the 'room' is usually a single bed that you share with a 300 pound lineman in a 10 x 10 room. And 'board' does NOT include meals on Sunday and the rest of the week the food is on contract from the low bidder. It is (unlike popular opinion) FAR from glamorous.

    Finally Reggie's mom & stepdad where paying $800 a month for a modest 3 bedroom house. They were getting the deal because the ex-con, non-agent, friend of the stepdad was doing these things to get Reggie to LEAVE USC ......... so he could start his wanna-be sports agency

  • Brucemax Provo, UT
    June 1, 2014 3:03 p.m.

    The NCAA has a problem on its hands both from the athletes and the conferences. The SEC and others are sick of getting sued because they are not allowed to properly compensate athletes (as per NCAA rules) and the athletes are likely going to win a legal battle allowing them to form a union.

    It's time for the NCAA to allow "extra benefits" for athletes before college athletics are torn apart by union strikes and conference secession. It's time to end the exploitation and allow compensation.

  • vinnyb3 Provo, UT
    June 1, 2014 3:08 p.m.

    Vai is right. If you don't believe the NCAA's motives are corrupt or that programs are forced into the gray areas, then watching the documentary "Schooled" on Netflix might be a good place to start. I'll say this much: Most schools estimate the worth of a "full-ride" scholarship to be $2,000 to $3,000 less than the cost of attending school. So where do the athletes get that extra money when they already have a full-time school on top of practices, games, and so on?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 1, 2014 6:04 p.m.

    Its clear that if the allegations prove to be true the cry from Cougar supporters will be as follows:

    The rules are stupid... no one can understand the rules... everyone violates the rules... the rule breaking was done out of love.

    From a coaching staff that is all about integrity and honor how is it so difficult to teach the athletes not to accept anything from a booster that is free or discounted... seems pretty simple if integrity is really the foundation of BYU athletics.

  • Chamberlain Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2014 7:50 a.m.

    Howard S.

    The rules ARE stupid and they're broken every day on every major college football campus... anybody who denies that the same types of things are happening at the U, is living in fantasy land.

    The "Poly-culture" that Vai referred to is just as alive and well on the hill as it is in Provo.

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    June 2, 2014 9:42 a.m.

    @ Chris B - Salt Lake City, UT "obama10, What part of byu broke NCAA rules do you not understand? If byu broke rules, and it appears serious ones were broke, they should be harshly punished and further relegated to a position far away from relevance, even more than they are now."

    So, if your beloved University of Utah had a guy, who by everyone's account but yours is an extremely generous and kind person, who violated the NCAA's rules, you'd be screaming at the top of your lungs for the Utah football program to be punished, and punished severely, right?

    Riiiiiight.....

    Of course you'll come on this forum and claim you would.

    However, no one, not BYU fans or your fellow Utah fans, will believe you.

    Sorry, your hundreds and hundreds of inflammatory comments gave you away along time ago.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 2, 2014 10:18 a.m.

    Howard:
    First, BYU is actually who started the investigation because they knew they were in the wrong. Sounds to me like they're taking responsibility, not making excuses. The rest of us fans, and sport writers can and do understand that the NCAA is a joke and their rules are absurd in today's landscape. That's not making excuses for breaking rules...it's questioning the rules so they can be changed...you know, like what the P5 conferences are requesting with "more flexibility".

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    June 2, 2014 10:34 a.m.

    BleedCougarBlue

    Let's just say, we have some very good friends who are Poly's, and we've invited to many of the types of events Vai speaks of. I've personnally seen known BYU and Utah boosters give cash to BYU and Utah student athletes, which according to a strict interpretation of the rules, is a violation of current NCAA rules.

    As usual, Chris B is blowing this BYU "investigation" way out proportion. There were no "major" NCAA rules violations, unless you consider allow an athlete to sleep on a couch for a couple of days before his dorm or apartment is available is a "major" rules violation. The types of infractions being investigated are third-tier types of infractions, which will, at most, result in some mild wrist slapping, nothing more.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    June 2, 2014 11:51 a.m.

    Vai,

    I'm disappointed to see you join the throngs of former Cougar players, fans and alumni who are using a variety of justifications to excuse wrongdoing. I am all for seeking to change the rules that don't make sense, but openly breaking the rules isn't the right way to bring about change. You seem to be saying that this isn't a big deal, because everybody does it. Or it's okay, because some of the players come from poor families who are struggling. Is that really the message you want to send? Or that your allegations regarding the NCAA's motivation make it okay to break the rules? That doesn't seem to be consistent with what BYU stands for.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2014 12:47 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs "What happens when GORs expire? What happens if the P5 want to make things even by becoming the P4?"
    Interesting questions. Both lend to my opinion that the days of conference expansion are over. The P5 seem quite comfortable drawing the line at the 65 teams they have. 65 teams evenly divides into 5 conferences. There may, however, be conference realignment. It would nice to see teams realign to restore traditional rivalries. (Come home, Nebraska!)

    It would be more "even" to have 4 conferences, but geographically that has never worked. Expanding the PAC to 16 teams means picking 4 from the Central Time Zone, which doesn't make sense.

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    June 2, 2014 2:05 p.m.

    Mormon Ute

    All "holier than thou" sentiment.

    So what would you do if a player from a poor family arrived on campus and couldn't move into his dorm/apartment for a few days - tell him, "sorry, but you'll have to sleep on the street?"

    What you're decrying as "breaking the rules" in many cases is nothing more than good people showing Christian charity. They're not acts designed to give BYU any sort of competitive advantage, in fact, you could probably find hundreds of examples of non-athletes being helped in similar situations.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    June 2, 2014 2:18 p.m.

    SoonerUte

    There's nothing special about 64 or 65 teams; what makes you so certain that if conferences realign, the elite teams like USC, UCLA, and Stanford won't decide to jettison the riffraff like Washington St, Colorado, and Utah, and just go to 32 teams?

    That's what the big boys really want, an elite team only league where they don't have to share any of the spoils with the conference groupies who don't contribute anything.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2014 3:08 p.m.

    @old by stupid

    The superconferences will be FOUR conferences of 16 teams.

    That has widely been predicted among many sports experts.

    Not five.

    LOL!

    You thought byu had an opening. LOL. 4 superconferenes, not 5. I'm happy to provide references if you would like.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2014 3:17 p.m.

    ND95CA,

    The elite teams like USC, UCLA, and Stanford voted just a couple years ago to ADD Utah and Colorado.

    Why?

    Because we add enough value such that adding uss gave them even more money.

    The Pac 12 and Big 12 faced similar questions regarding inviting byu. Both conferences came to the conclusion they are better NOT adding byu.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2014 3:53 p.m.

    Chris B

    What makes U so sure Utah will be included in a mass conference reshuffling from 5 power conferences to 4?

    IF such a massive reshuffling does happen, the big boys could just as easily decide to form their only little cadre of elite teams like USC, UCLA, Stanford, Ohio St, Michigan, et. al. and leave all of the weak teams like Colorado, Washington St, Indiana, Duke, Vanderbilt and Utah completely out of the mix.

    Four power football conferences of 8 teams each would work just as well.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2014 4:30 p.m.

    ND65CA "There's nothing special about 64 or 65 teams; what makes you so certain that if conferences realign, the elite teams... won't decide to jettison the riffraff... and just go to 32 teams?"

    32 teams and truly make it a mini-NFL, eh? We're probably headed down that road. Keep in mind, though, that 51 different schools made the BCS bowls, so 32 cuts too deep.

    There isn't anything special about 65 teams, but its roughly half of the division 1 schools. They have talked about splitting division 1 again, like the FBS/FCS split in 1978. In the perfect split you take the top 64 teams regardless of conference affiliation. Perfection is complicated contracts and agreements.

    A simpler solution is to split off the P5 conferences and Notre Dame. Are those schools the best 65? No, but it is a pretty close. That's certainly a package which would sell well to the networks.

    Today, schools can "graduate" from FCS to FBS (Texas State for example). I expect teams could move back and forth if they create Division 4. It all depends on qualifications and willingness to make concessions.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2014 4:40 p.m.

    swoop,

    The Pac 12 already had the chance to stay at 10 and leave out Colorado and Utah. They studied the issue and realized we added enough value to justify adding us. We(the pac 12) and the big 12 have made similar reviews of byu and we both came to the conclusion that byu did NOT add enough value to justifying.

  • Red San Antonia, TX
    June 2, 2014 5:41 p.m.

    I totally agree with you Vai. The rules make common sense a violation.

    We have allowed the sport to be hijacked by people who can't think for themselves and make good decisions without getting together as a committee and wasting everyones time.

    Keep calling a spade a spade!

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    June 2, 2014 9:56 p.m.

    SoonerUte

    "Keep in mind, though, that 51 different schools made the BCS bowls, so 32 cuts too deep."

    How many of those 51 have won a national championship, a Heisman Trophy, and have been perennial Top 25 teams for the last 30 years?

    That would narrow the field considerably.

    ------------

    "A simpler solution is to split off the P5 conferences and Notre Dame. Are those schools the best 65? No, but it is a pretty close."

    The elite teams aren't looking for a "simpler" solution, they're looking for a way to permanently seal their status as elite programs and shut everybody else out - teams like USC, UCLA, Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Ohio State, Michigan, Florida, LSU, Georgia, Florida State, Miami, Penn State and Notre Dame would be perfectly happy forming their own version of the NFL, major college football style.

    Teams like Oregon State, Washington State, Colorado and Utah would be considered just as much interlopers into their elite inner sanctum as any mid-major.

    Why would USC or UCLA share their west coast piece of the pie, if they could keep it all for themselves?

    Utah fans who think that Utah's status is rock solid are only fooling themselves.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2014 11:50 p.m.

    BlueCoug "looking for a way to permanently seal their status as elite programs and shut everybody else out" and "perfectly happy forming their own version of the NFL".

    I've not heard of any mini-NFL plan like you describe, where "USC becomes the LA Rams" or "Oregon becomes the Seattle Seahawks".

    You say "elite programs", but the talk is "elite conferences" separating themselves from the pack either completely (see Division 4) or through bylaws (see Power 5 Conference autonomy).

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    June 3, 2014 7:48 a.m.

    SoonerUte

    More "autonomy" for the P5 conferences is just another way of saying more "autonomy" for the elite programs.

    Do you really think that Alabama is seeking more autonomy so that Ole Miss can pay its players a "stipend"?

    No, Alabama is looking for ways to permanently seal its dominance over Ole Miss.

    It's a turf war out there and the elite programs are only looking out for #1.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    June 3, 2014 10:12 a.m.

    Alls I know is its ok because we do it with honesty in our hearts.

  • kfbob SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    June 4, 2014 7:32 a.m.

    @ Blue Rampage:

    your medical school (a good one, at that) that got the utes into the Pac, not the football team.

    The U of U medical school is an average Medical school as far as U.S. Medical schools are rated. They are in the 2nd Quartile, about halfway from the top to the bottom. Now compared to Mexican Medical schools they are probably top class.

    The philosophy at the U medical school is not to enroll the most qualified but to enroll a diverse class based on race, gender and nationality. Which leave a shortage of doctors that are willing to locate to rural Utah. With that type of selection process they probably won't surpass the median.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    June 4, 2014 9:57 a.m.

    Solomon Levi,

    The rules are the rules and if that example Vai and you gave happens as much as Vai implies, programs should be smart enough to have come up with a solution that is within the rules. Vai and his Bishop should have known better. I was told by a police officer years ago that ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law and neither is doing a good deed. Robin Hood may have helped a lot of people, but he still broke the law.