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Doug Robinson: Cougars get snubbed, but impact is minimal

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  • 311ute Reno, NV
    May 23, 2014 1:16 p.m.

    I completely disagree. BYU fans and beat writers, look at the schedules for 2016 before you state your case that all is well. Like I have said before, BYU has 2 home games scheduled for 2016!! The middle of the schedule is full of TBD. Who is going to go to LES in Oct? BYU is scrambling to fill a home schedule for 2016 while everyone else's schedules are complete.

    Someone do the research and prove me wrong, even possibilities would do.

    It won't be long before Savannah State makes another trip to LES.

    Head in the sand!!

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    May 23, 2014 1:17 p.m.

    BYU should not take offense at the policy of the ACC and SEC. The Mountain West Conference saying the same thing is another matter. Now that's a real slap in the face.

  • armchair quarterback DRAPER, UT
    May 23, 2014 1:28 p.m.

    Can't deny the facts. Those are some pretty solid arguments. So what are other possible reasons behind the snub? History of conference affiliation? Perception vs reality?

  • PhilRM Anchorage, AK
    May 23, 2014 1:31 p.m.

    I think those conferences overlooked BYU because they know BYU is good, and now that they've stated BYU is not a quality opponent, a loss to the Y will do more damage than good. One only needs to look as far as Miami to see why these teams don't want to play the Y.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 23, 2014 1:32 p.m.

    Thank you Mr Robinson for a thorough and well thought out presentation of BYU football over the last 40 years. Unfortunately the SEC and other Power 5 conferences just don't care. CFB is about money now, not competition on the field. Just ask such powerhouses as Rutgers and Maryland. CFB is simply becoming minor league developmental football now...it will be about as amateur as AAA baseball in the next couple years.

    As for the SOS argument which is why these conferences are requiring the extra game against a P5 program, it's ridiculous that a team can schedule Wazzu or Indiana and that is thought of as meeting the requirement but BYU isn't. So Kansas will be ok, but BYU? Nope...what a joke. And don't give us the "well they would have to exempt BSU or Wyoming too". No...BYU isn't a P5 member but neither are they a G5 member. They also have a much lengthier history of success to show stability than any other G5 program. I just want BYU in a conference again. The independence experiment has been fun but it's obvious it won't be viable in the long term.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 23, 2014 1:40 p.m.

    If it would have little impact, why was Tom Holmoe so anxious to meet with the SEC Commissioner? One school already stated they discontinued talks with BYU to schedule a series. Yes, it has had and will have an impact.

  • Chris B. 4 Prez! Salt Lake City, UT
    May 23, 2014 1:46 p.m.

    Teams don't want to schedule the Y, because it's not considered a quality opponent in the modern era. PhilRM's comment, "One only needs to look as far as Miami to see why these teams don't want to play the Y." If you're reaching that far back into the sands of time, then desperation has already sunk in. Similar to the content of this article, grasping at straws. Spin it any way you want: playing the Y is not considered a quality home/road win.

    A season full of cupcake victories doesn't stack up much in the grand scheme of things. So you squeaked into the top 25 by season's end again. You get a star. Go ahead and pat yourselves on the back, but the reality is, teams are looking for programs who do more than eliminate the weak opponents year in and year out, but falter to the big boys more often than not. Just like you advise "little brother" beat some quality opponents on a consistent basis, and then we'll talk.

  • caleb in new york Glen Cove, NY
    May 23, 2014 1:59 p.m.

    spot on by Robinson. if 311ute is so concerned about BYU's 2016 schedule, maybe he or she can research which Power 5 schools still have openings left for 2016. How many are there - 10 + or 20 + or 30 +? Sure BYU would enjoy the stability of Pac-12 or Big 12 membership, but just because they don't have it does not mean the sky is falling.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    May 23, 2014 2:27 p.m.

    Now if the Utes can just beat some quality opponents and go to some other bowl than the "rump on the bump sofa bowl" then we local football fans will be happy. Better yet if BYU can manage to beat a few more quality opponents than they have lately we then will be content.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    May 23, 2014 2:36 p.m.

    I've said a few times, but it is still true:
    BYU has only 1 Power conference school scheduled to come to Provo in the next 3 seasons (Virginia).
    You may get a few good road games, but can't get anyone to come to Provo. There are later a few good teams scheduled to come to Provo later this decade, but all are after BYU visits there place.
    Remember BYU scheduled a 2 for 1 with Notre Dame. BYU went to South Bend 2 years in a row and Notre Dame now has no plans on coming back to Provo.
    Other teams could do same thing.

  • caleb in new york Glen Cove, NY
    May 23, 2014 2:52 p.m.

    Notre Dame's leadership has said they plan on fulfilling their 2 commitments to come to Provo. They are just taking their time due to serious scheduling issues and BYU is graciously giving some patience.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    May 23, 2014 2:54 p.m.

    I think the thing with leaving BYU out was based on... well do you start making exceptions for every high ranking non-P5 school (Northern Illinois for instance?).

    Rankings (human or computer) are smart enough to separate BYU from Akron and schools like Georgia Tech have scheduled BYU alongside a P5 school (Georgia in GTs case) in a 4 game out of conference schedule.

    Even Utah which has no such mandate and only 3 games to work with but still has a Michigan, Fresno State, and Utah State ooc in 2015. Ironic since it's devoid of BYU, but that's the sort of set BYU wants to see from teams and probably will see (on a related not, I just realized Utah has 11 potentially difficult games that year...). The hard part will be the same as before, filling out the schedule in weeks where most conferences are locked into conference play. It does look like some of the PAC games in out years will help (junctioning them in weeks when USC or Stanford is playing Notre Dame leaving an odd PAC team out who needs an opponent or a bye).

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 23, 2014 3:05 p.m.

    Des News doing damage control.

    Robinson states:

    "They made one exemption: Notre Dame, an independent, will count as one of those games, as well.

    Nobody said anything about BYU, and that was the problem. Notre Dame received the official anointing of two powerhouse conferences — but BYU, the other major independent, was ignored."

    The way this is written makes it appear that ND has exactly the same status byu does...fully independent. They don't. ND saw the futility of independence a couple of years ago and did something about it. byu? Still thinks they don't have to play by rules.

    byu has no one but themselves to blame for this mess but the local media is along for ride to keep the fire stoked.

    Is independence not everything promised? Who's to blame for that?

    Not the SEC or the ACC.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 23, 2014 3:21 p.m.

    "The ACC and SEC policies will have a minimal impact on BYU. For one thing, the Cougars rarely play their teams. During the nine-year Bronco Mendenhall era, the Cougars have played only seven games against ACC schools and one game against an SEC school (3 wins, 5 losses)."

    Then why did Holmoe feel compelled to kick the proverbial hornet's nest? I thought schedule any team and play anywhere and everywhere was the current byu mantra. There must be a lot of discontent in cougar nation.

    "During the next decade, the Cougars are scheduled to play 26 games against 14 Power 5 schools, and the schedules have not been completed yet, meaning there could be more. The opponents include Texas, Nebraska, Michigan, Wisconsin, USC, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal and Notre Dame."

    You left Utah off the list...Lol.

    Independence rocks!

  • GJ Greenwood, IN
    May 23, 2014 3:31 p.m.

    As far as openings that other Power 5 conference teams have in 2016, Oklahoma, Kansas State, Texas Tech, Boston College, Florida State, Clemson, Louisville, NC State, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Ga Tech, Miami, UNC, Pitt, Rutgers, California, Washington, Arizona, Colorado, Southern Cal, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Missouri, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, and Texas A&M all have at least one out of conference opening, some have multiple, and a few like Alabama have yet to schedule any OOC games for 2016.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 23, 2014 3:58 p.m.

    Failed Marketing.

    "BYU, the Notre Dame of the West!" was a big flop along with New Coke, the Ford Edsel, and Sony Betamax. You say snubbed, but in truth consumers (SEC, ACC, etc) aren't fooled by the new product. They know that independent BYU is the same as MWC BYU with a higher cost.

    Understand your customers. Understand your product. Understand your capability. Business 101.

  • Levin Reno, NV
    May 23, 2014 4:05 p.m.

    Looking back at recent BYU vs ACC schedules:

    Florida State (2009-2010): In addition to the annual UF rivalry game, they had Oklahoma in 2010.
    Virginia(2013-2014): Had Oregon last year, and has UCLA this year.
    Boston College in 2006 and 2008 had no Big 5 OOC games.

    Oddly, BC is one time Bronco had his sights on, but the FSU and UVa schedules would be totally workable in the new scheme. Much ado about nothing, IMO. If anything, this opens up more games against the better teams that are also left out, in addition to Army and Navy, which Bronco has been interested in playing.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    May 23, 2014 4:37 p.m.

    Trolls: you make me laugh. You want so much to see BYU fail, you jump on every rumor and clap your hands with glee. Funny thing is that Utah is failing every season. I'm sorry, conference bottom feeder is not success.

    As for the hysterical BYU fans, I say, again, there is nothing different today. We'll still play those guys. Do you really think they can fill their schedules with nobody but themselves? Suppose they do separate from the NCAA and just play themselves, pay their players, and ignore the other 300 or so teams?

    How soon will schools like Utah, WSU, OSU, Iowa, et al. go broke trying to keep up with the 20 or so rich teams.

    Not gonna happen.

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    May 23, 2014 5:08 p.m.

    Wow, I am impressed by the many Ute fans commenting on BYU articles! I doubt Ute articles receive more BYU fan comments than Ute comments.

    Thanks for your time and effort, good to know BYU is still front and center for you!

  • Ironhide Salt Lake City, UT
    May 23, 2014 5:29 p.m.

    So many insecure utes on a BYU comment board. Please continue to comment, it means so much that you care.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    May 23, 2014 5:32 p.m.

    "In the last 40 seasons, BYU ranks fourth in total victories with 353. Only Nebraska, Oklahoma and Ohio State won more games." Those numbers say a lot about the consistency and success of BYU football. Except 85% of those wins came against WAC and MWC teams. Stats and numbers tell a lot but they can also be skewed, inductive, and put into relative context.

    Case in point; the whole Top 25 chest pounding thing. In 2011, BYU finished 10-3 and finished the season in the Top 25. Sounds nice right? Yeah, except BYU was nowhere near ranked mid season EVEN after coming off two narrow home victories against USU (last second deflection TD) and Central Florida (who outplayed BYU and self destructed). Then BYU ran off five straight victories against Idaho, Idaho State, New Mexico State, Hawaii, and Tulsa to finish 10-3 (not top 25 worthy). Utah wasn't ranked but beat BYU 54-10 and was 8-5 overall with a PAC 12 schedule (4-5 in the PAC 12 and 4-0 outside of it). The 4 non conference wins had one weak team (Montana State). Utah crushed BYU and Pitt on the road and beat Georgia Tech on a neutral site.

  • Flip McFetch Las Vegas, NV
    May 23, 2014 6:39 p.m.

    1985 SPORT magazine: Go West, BYU! (join the PAC 10). Was anything done proactively by Glenn Tucket & the BYU admin.? It's safe to say not at all? The mantra of the BYU admin. (including the UU & USU alums who didn't have the integrity to represent BYU's best interests) was, "We're not leaving the comfernce [sic] w/o Utah."
    Then comes 2011 and Utah says, "So long, Cougars." Who could blame them.
    Let's see what Holmoe can do w/a bad hand.

  • UteMiguel Go Utes, CA
    May 23, 2014 7:05 p.m.

    I agree that BYU is better than a large number of Power 5 teams and that the snub by the SEC and ACC is silly for that reason. I disagree that this has minimal impact. The impact on perception is unfortunately big. The impact on scheduling remains to be seen.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 23, 2014 8:04 p.m.

    From the article -
    The Cougars have winning or .500 records against Georgia Tech (3-1), Miami (1-1), Pitt (1-1), Michigan (1-0), Wisconsin (1-1), Baylor (1-1), Oklahoma (2-0), Texas (3-1), Ole Miss (1-0), Texas A&M (2-1), Missouri (1-0), Washington State (3-1), Cal (2-1), and Oregon (3-3).

    Somehow, the SEC and ACC missed all of the above when they decided to overlook BYU.

    _________

    Somehow the writer and BYU fans miss they are 3-8-1 All time against Colorado. And 6-11? all time against San Jose St.
    The win loss records are a silly argument for BYU considering how many years apart several of the games against the same opponent were.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    May 23, 2014 9:11 p.m.

    As someone once said "winning isn't everything its the only thing". The U was vaulted into the PAC12 conference because it won two BCS games. Don't ask me how Colorado got invited to the PAC12 because they have been terrible for years. But to the point - if BYU can win against the big teams - the UCS's and the ND's and Michigans and Wisconsins then then they will get invited to a conference but not until. So far BYU has mostly struck out.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 23, 2014 9:39 p.m.

    Patriot:
    If you don't understand why Colorado got in, I can help with that. Colorado is an AAU institution that resides in the Denver market. Incidentally Rutgers and Mryland are AAU schools also that reside in large TV markets. Utah's BCS victories had nothing to do with their PAC12 invite, anymore than the lack of athletic success hindered Colorado, Rutgers, or Maryland from their invites. Utah's tier 1 research status and 33rd largest TV market are the reasons they are in.

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    May 23, 2014 10:18 p.m.

    It must be very frustrating for Pac 12 Proud Ute fans to have Doug Robinson raining on the funeral they had planned for BYU football. I remember when BYU was in one of its darker hours right after Gary Crowton left and Kyle Whitingham decided to remain at the U. Several of my Ute friends proclaimed that BYU would never win another MWC championship and that it was the end of the program for all intents and purposes. Then they went on to win a couple of MWC championships. BYU football is going to be fine.

  • kayeauneaux Sweetwater, TX
    May 23, 2014 11:17 p.m.

    Any history older than, say, 5 years is irrelevant here.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 24, 2014 12:49 a.m.

    @ A1994

    Yeah, but BYU still probably won't win any MWC championships...

  • flatlander Omaha, NE
    May 24, 2014 6:30 a.m.

    Most power con. teams want to play seven of their twelve games at home for the money. Lessor teams play more away games for the money because they draw few fans at home. BYU doesn't have the conference foes that have to split games each year so filling the home schedule requires lots more Sav. State, Idaho, etc who will go play at LES for the money. BYU had the ESPN bankroll that let them go independent and they don't care who the Y plays just so they get weekday games from them. At the end of the season it is all about the money not who you play.

  • EnglishAlan Rugeley, Staffs
    May 24, 2014 6:33 a.m.

    I realise that I live far from Utah College Football,and watch a real man's sport of Rugby League (played it at the highest level) but I find it sad that the supporters of two relatively mediocre teams should be so determined to knock the other team and it's supoorters. Why should U of U fans be so bothered about a BYU team that they won't even be playing for the next couple of years? It's obvious that BYU has more money, better attraction for non-conference teams due to the ESPN coverage, and also the LDS members across the United States turning up to watch a Church team play in their backyard. I just didn't realise how much it rankles with U of U fans. It seems that you all have "Small Man Syndrome." (You HAVE to prove that you support a real team, even though they are a guaranteed win for all other teams in their Conference.

    By the way, if you want to watch a real man game, Google "Rugby League." We run for 80 minutes non stop, hit just as hard as your lot, and do it without a helmet or pads.

  • JSB Sugar City, ID
    May 24, 2014 6:57 a.m.

    BYU will have to settle for pouring lots of $ into a program that will never get real national attention or prestige. Or they can accept the inevitable and eliminate their expensive athletic program and focus on academics and giving students preparation for real life. That is where BYU can really excel and not be arbitrarily excluded or sidelined. What in the world does football have to do with education anyway?

  • ItrustNo1 La Grange, TN
    May 24, 2014 7:03 a.m.

    I appreciate Doug's positive attitude but the reality of what is happening right now in College Football and the affect it will have on BYU if it doesn't join one of the five Power Conferences sooner than later would scare anyone who doesn't have their head stuck in the sand. Its easy to tell everyone to not worry about it, but what is BYU going to tell us, the devoted BYU fans, after they have bought into their own story and not taken the steps necessary to join a Major? Its a buyers market right now out there and BYU better come to grips with that and start dealing with it.

    Suggestions: With five years remaining on the BYU ESPN deal, offer to join the Big 12 without participating in Conference revenue shares for the next five years, or until the next Big 12 TV contract is completed (BYU loses nothing and gains membership in a Mayor). Stand firm on no Sunday games, but offer to work with the Big 12 once the ESPN deal has ended on the buyTV Broadcast

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    May 24, 2014 7:45 a.m.

    So Chris B (wouldn't vote for his as Prez), Beating Texas last year and Oklahoma a few years ago count as ancient history?

    Bottom line, these two conferences are scared to think what would happen if the Y beat them. And I also wouldn't consider Utah to be anything less than a second tier team in a supposed "power" conference.

  • Teaching Moment Ogden, UT
    May 24, 2014 7:54 a.m.

    Colorado Buffaloes

    1990 national champions
    all-time record 675-463-36
    23rd on all-time win list

    Oh, and they have a respectable TV market. Maybe that's how they got into the Pac-12.

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 24, 2014 7:59 a.m.

    My stats prof once remarked that if you put one foot in a pale of cold water and another in a pale of hot water statistically you will be just right. In reality we all know that is not true. Doug like much of the BYU faithful has never learned this principle.Take out the Utah charity game each year or place a weighting system to BYU's other P5 past opponents and you will come to a very different set of statistics. The BYU pr department works overtime to make obscure states state a positive case for BYU. Yes, that is expected of them, but not from a journalist.

  • Whyargue Salt Lake City, UT
    May 24, 2014 8:01 a.m.

    I appreciate the tradition, but what they all want is BYU to conform to their lack of standards. Not going to happen and independent is going to continue to equal uphill battle. Money corrupts and will continue to corrupt CFB. The probability of BYU contending for a National title is far fetched. More and more programs will drop out of D1 if this continues. Maybe it's time to lead the way and bring CFB back to what it is supposed to be? Don't let pride get in the way!

  • EJM Herriman, UT
    May 24, 2014 8:36 a.m.

    I find it funny that people say that this is the desert news doing damage control on behalf of BYU. From a personal perspective having Doug Robinson write the column makes no sense. They should have had Dick Harmon write it. All Doug does is use the facts. As for me, I love my Utes. Go Utah!

  • LoveTheKittens Central, UT
    May 24, 2014 9:10 a.m.

    @EJM

    Nobody but cougs take Dick Harmon seriously.

  • oldcougar Orem, UT
    May 24, 2014 10:01 a.m.

    Here's what I know. I've been a season ticket holder and regular attender for 30 years or so. After the last few years of vaunted independence, I'm not very excited for the home games. LES is "take it or leave it" for me. I watch the good games on TV.

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    May 24, 2014 10:15 a.m.

    @Two For Flinching

    BYU isn't in the MWC. So what is your point?

  • Alpiner Alpine, UT
    May 24, 2014 10:31 a.m.

    Everyone seems to be missing the fact that since the SEC is only playing 8 games within their league that opens up 4 for non conference opponents. Even if they are required to play one of them against their definition of a "quality" team, that still leaves 3 games that they must schedule. The SEC teams will schedule one of them against a FCS patsy so they will still need two more games to schedule. There will still be opportunities.

    With that being said, BYU still needs to do all they can to be considered a "quality" opponent.

  • ImaCaMan Oceanside, CA
    May 24, 2014 10:49 a.m.

    "The fact is the Cougars are better than or equal to many of the teams in the Power 5 conferences and deserve to be considered a “quality” team".

    The "fact is" that currently they may appear to be equal or better. This is based on their only playing 2-3 teams from the big conferences each year, each preceded by a week off or one of their usual patsies. Let them play the week in-week out rigors of a top conference schedule and then lets proclaim how better or equal they are. Ten win seasons with their schedule should be a given each year but not necessarily an indicator of how comparatively good they are.

  • plyxply SLC, UT
    May 24, 2014 11:43 a.m.

    It seems like the consensus with BYU has always been that they are a step below the top conferences, why is this news? Just because someone verifies what has already been common knowledge, now it's news?
    BYU has much bigger issues to worry about, like how long they'll be suspended from playing a bowl game for the recent violations and how many scholarships they'll lose, than what some conference back east thinks of the Cougars.
    BYU will be offering even more of their coveted "preferred walk-on" positions for local LDS kids to be able to bask in the glory of Roscoe, Kelly, and the rest of the awesome BYU coaches.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 24, 2014 12:13 p.m.

    EnglishAlan,

    You've got to live here to appreciate the dynamics of this rivalry. To much has happened over the years to explain it in a short post here, but this rivalry is about much more than just the games played on the field.

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    May 24, 2014 1:00 p.m.

    One of the sports events I really looked forward
    to when moving to Utah was the BYU vs Utah
    Football game. It has been one of the great
    rivalries in college football . I hope this continues.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    May 24, 2014 4:59 p.m.

    Mormon Ute:

    1. Why don't you ask Mr Holmoe why he went to meet with the SEC commissioner and then tell us all?

    2. What school discontinued talks with BYU about scheduling games with BYU? What is your source - I haven't seen an article about that. Tell us.

    3. We don't care what you think about the SEC and ACC snubs affecting BYU.

    BYU will be just fine.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 24, 2014 7:44 p.m.

    I chuckle upon seeing the byu faithful, including the author of this article w/in this article, crow over byu's record against this P5 conference schools or that one's. Yet, when has byu ever played against a P5-like conference schedule and played these teams in a back-to-back/week-in week-out grind? The answer is simple--Never.

    Play against these teams in the same manner in which they play against themselves and then you'll be able to proclaim "equality". Heck, this past season they had all off-season to prepare for UVA/Had bye-weeks before U/WISC/Had Idaho State before ND/Had weeks to prepare for a coach-less UW and lost every single one of them, while never seriously threatening the latter four. Yes, this is precisely why their SOS finished ranked #38, which happened to finish ranked behind all 12 PAC-12 schools. And this upcoming season's SOS will most likely finish significantly lower.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    May 24, 2014 8:37 p.m.

    The Big 12 will have a problem on its hands sooner rather than later.
    It only has ten schools and no conference title game. How long will the SEC, PAC 12, ACC & Big Ten put up with a school from the Big 12 that could keep one of their schools out of the new playoff system?

    I could see BYU joining the Big 12 as a football only member. That would eliminate any issues with no Sunday play with the other sports.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    May 24, 2014 9:17 p.m.

    panamadesnews
    Lindon, UT said:

    "Mormon Ute:

    1. Why don't you ask Mr Holmoe why he went to meet with the SEC commissioner and then tell us all?

    2. What school discontinued talks with BYU about scheduling games with BYU? What is your source - I haven't seen an article about that. Tell us.

    3. We don't care what you think about the SEC and ACC snubs affecting BYU.

    BYU will be just fine."

    Both Clemson and Auburn were allegedly in discussions to play home and home series with BYU. Those talks have gone nowhere now. Especially after BYU has been labeled a mid-major by the SEC & ACC. Tried to find the SI article and post the link. Some sportswriter linked to BYU (outside of the SLC media market) also talked briefly about it.

    Now that BYU has been labeled by the SEC & ACC, expect the other major conferences to follow.

  • HowbouthisJAZZ Saratoga Springs, UT
    May 24, 2014 9:52 p.m.

    @ImaCaMan, the article clearly states that under Mendenhall, BYU has played an average of 5.1 p5 schools a year. Since going Indy, that average has risen to 5.7 p5 teams a season. That's just about half of their season, not 2-3 like you suggest.

    To those who like to entertain the idea that no one wants to come to Provo because they are not a "quality" opponent, take your blinders off. No one wants to come to Provo because they know they have a good chance of losing. Not too many teams win in Provo. Unfortunately, one of those teams that does win in Provo is the U of U.

    Lastly, to any ute fan who thinks byu is not nationally relevant and the utes are, I have spent the last several years living in New England. Everyone I met knew who byu was, but most of my acquaintances didn't even know that the U exists let alone that they had a football team. This was the same year that utah beat Alabama. Outside of the pac12 the utes are nobodies, just like they always have been. Byu? Nationally relevant. Sorry trolls.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 25, 2014 10:20 a.m.

    HowboutthisJAZZ "In nine years under Mendenhall, it’s 5.1 (and 5.7 the last three years)."

    How is that possible? In the MWC, teams had 8 conference games against fellow mid-majors. That leaves 4 games to average 5.1 games against majors? That defies the laws of math that I know.

    But IF the statement were somehow true it shows two things:
    1) There has been a .6 advantage to independence.
    2) Several P5 teams have schedules against 10 P5 teams. BYU wants full credit for half the effort.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 25, 2014 10:36 a.m.

    HowbouthisJAZZ
    Saratoga Springs, UT
    @ImaCaMan,

    Lastly, to any ute fan who thinks byu is not nationally relevant and the utes are, I have spent the last several years living in New England. Everyone I met knew who byu was, but most of my acquaintances didn't even know that the U exists let alone that they had a football team. This was the same year that utah beat Alabama. Outside of the pac12 the utes are nobodies, just like they always have been. Byu? Nationally relevant. Sorry trolls.

    ____________

    There is a difference between relevant and heard about.
    Anyone that follows sports knows that the New England States ( and I also say New Your City included ) are snobby. The sports world revolves around them, and games out west are late at night on TV for them to watch.

    In the end, it makes no difference if people know who BYU is as compared to Utah. For over 40 years BYU has been heard of, yet they are still on the outside looking in.

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    May 25, 2014 2:35 p.m.

    Utah vs BYU football rivalry is similar to UCLA
    USC or ASU vs Arizona etc. It is worth preserving.
    It is the game people look forward to.

  • truth in all its forms henderson, NV
    May 25, 2014 9:47 p.m.

    I completely disagree! The ACC, SEC, and now the Mountain west doesn't want to schedule BYU! Tom Holmoe better push the panic button because soon they will only be able to schedule WAC teams!

  • softbear Olympia, WA
    May 26, 2014 1:05 a.m.

    Like most fans I wish we were in the Big12 but that seems unlikely to happy. A couple of view points on scheduling. First, I do not see the P5 schools passing on the Y if we are considered a lesser team in strength, we're still better than most of the fill in teams they have and still give them a more power rated schedule. So come on Big 5 play this inferior team and still receive a good power rating for doing so and just hope we don't beat you, since we're inferior!!!!!

    To all those local Y fans that are concerned about who is coming to Provo, which is only about 40,000 that can fit in the stadium, those of us who can't get in or live out of the area--we could care less we just want to see our team. I can assure you there are more of us than you. So BYU play all over the country and don't worry about who comes to Provo. When your in our areas we'll fill the stadium regardless who your playing and watch on TV every week.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 26, 2014 9:09 p.m.

    HowbouthisJAZZ:

    "I have spent the last several years living in New England. Everyone I met knew who byu was, but most of my acquaintances didn't even know that the U exists..."

    I doubt very much your story. First, I live in Philadelphia, and everybody here not only knows about Utah football, they knew before they beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. I went to a Penn State-Oregon State game back in 2008, and all my PSU buddies were still giddy about Utah beating Michigan earlier that year.

    Second, ESPN constantly referred to Utah as the original BCS buster, "giant killer", and the "winningest team" vs. BCS schools from amongst all the non-AQs. So if anyone in New England never heard of Utah, they weren't really college football fans.

    Third, EVERY state has a flagship institution. So if anyone never heard of the Univ. of Utah, they're probably pretty dumb, and don't know our nation's geography. That's nothing to brag about.

    (cont...)

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 26, 2014 9:16 p.m.

    HowbouthisJAZZ (cont.):

    Fourth, and this is without exception, the only people that I'd ever met that talk about your program....

    ....have ALL been fellow members of my Stake/Ward.

    Furthermore, in pretty much every place I'd ever lived, LDS folks typically don't choose to associate with non-LDS folks.

    So based on MY experiences, if you're LDS, then that would most likely imply that the majority of your "inner circle" back in New England would have been fellow LDS. And in that case, it shouldn't surprise you that they'd be more impressed with their alma mater than their hated rival to the north who keeps beating them and upstaging them on an annual basis.

    Fifth, there are no Y football fans who had never heard of Utah, nor were unaware that we have a football program.

    Basically, your post holds absolutely no ounce of credibility. It might dupe the locals in Utah County, who rarely -- if ever -- LEAVE Utah County (much less the state of Utah), but to the rest of us.....nope.

    Epic fail.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 26, 2014 9:44 p.m.

    Doug Robsinson:

    You DO realize that 31 of those 55 wins vs. the power five teams in the Pac-12 were over Ariz, ASU, and Utah BEFORE they joined the Pac-10/12, don't you? The SEC and ACC weren't concerning themselves about whether or not the cougars could beat a bunch of other midmajors. They were more concerned about how well they measured up against bigger competition. So really, vs. the Pac-12 -- when filtering out the teams who were playing in the WAC and MWC at that time -- the cougars weren't 55-51 (.519). They were 24-31 (.436), and that's me including those games vs. CU before they joined the Pac-12.

    And that's also if the cougars were to cherry pick the dates starting from 1972. Because vs. all time, sans any filtering, the Y is 70-121 (.366). And really, if we're going back to '72, why not all the way back to '22? Because what do the '72 cougars have anything to do with the current cougars, or the current era of college football? That entire staff is long gone.

  • Chris B. 4 Prez! Salt Lake City, UT
    May 28, 2014 10:28 a.m.

    @Flashback:

    "Bottom line, these two conferences are scared to think what would happen if the Y beat them. And I also wouldn't consider Utah to be anything less than a second tier team in a supposed "power" conference."

    Earth to flashback (and other happy valley fans): not a single team in the land is "scared" of the Y. Happy Valley logic at its finest.

    @EnglishAlan:

    Not going to bash rugby here. American Football and rugby are both bruising sports. Consider yourself lucky though, chap. You wouldn't want to get ear-holed by a helmet wearing possessed grown man sprinting with reckless abandon. Much more damaging than the body alone, sport.

    @NavalVet:

    Your rebuttals to howboutthisJazz and Doug Robinson were priceless. Keep up the great work!

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    May 28, 2014 11:18 a.m.

    Naval - I have lived in the south in deep SEC territory. Your observations about members vs non-members and their "awareness" of Utah and byU football programs are spot on!

    Carry on.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 28, 2014 12:50 p.m.

    Doug Robinson:

    "During the 29-year LaVell Edwards era, the Cougars scheduled an average of 4.2 Power 5 schools annually. In nine years under Mendenhall, it’s 5.1 (and 5.7 the last three years)."

    Those numbers didn't sound right, so I checked, and sure enough, they were wrong.

    If you filter out all the Utah, Ariz, and ASU games the Y played back when we were in the WAC/MWC, and filter IN Houston (AAC, 2013) and TCU (SWC, 1987 & 1988), the cougars scheduled an average of 2.4 *Power* schools per season going back to 1972, 3.2/season going back to bronco's rookie head coaching year (2005), and 5.3 since independence (2011).

    ** Even though Houston is not a "Power 5" school, they were -- for 2013 only -- technically a member of the BCS, and thus was counted as its equivalent status of "Power" school. The same applied to TCU back in 1987-88 since they were members of the SWC, which for all intents and purposes can make a legitimate claim as a "Power" school at that time.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 28, 2014 12:57 p.m.

    Doug Robinson (cont):

    I feel it is additionally relevant to note that while the cougars' had averaged 5.3 "Power" schools since leaving the MWC, that average actually declines to 4.8 thru 2014, and to 4.2 thru 2015.

    Not a good scheduling trend for the cougs.

    Or at least not for the ones who don't want to watch their team playing small ball.