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How concerned should BYU fans really be after ACC snub?

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  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2014 1:35 p.m.

    Very concerned!

    The ACC just told you you are a mid-major and deserve to be treated like all other mid majors.

    The SEC thinks you are a mid-major and should be treated as all mid-majors

    We will never invite byu to the Pac 12 for many reasons, one of which is mid-major quality football program.

    The Big 12 extended byu the lifeline of a lifetime and what did byu tell the big 12?

    "Treat us like Texas because we are like Texas"

    Bridge burned!

    I guess the Big 10 or NFL could always invite byu?

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2014 1:37 p.m.

    "If Pac-12 teams stop scheduling the Cougars, then it’s time to panic. With games against Utah, Cal, USC, Arizona, Washington State, Arizona State and Stanford all on future schedules, the Cougars don’t have anything to worry about there."

    Sorry to burst your WAC bubble, but 2-3 games a year against power conference teams will NEVER get a team into the playoffs.

    ONLY a power conference schedule with 8-9 games against power conference teams will get a team into the playoffs.

    byu's best bet of getting to the playoffs is setting up their own playoffs with the other mid-majors.

    Because power conferences are becoming the new division I and mid-majors are essentially becoming division II.

    And I love it!

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    May 16, 2014 1:40 p.m.

    Sure, recognition as a Power school would have been great but this really does little to change BYU's future. BYU will continue to schedule tough opponents from a range of conferences and will continue to thrive. Now, if ESPN decides to not continue an arrangement with BYU we should start worrying.

  • Big 12 Call Yet? Ogden, UT
    May 16, 2014 1:41 p.m.

    If Holmoe was honest he'd admit he messed up byu's one and only chance at football relevance by byu's arrogance in dealings with the Big 12.

    Sunday issue was NOT the issue - the big 12 knows byu will never play on sundays, so they wouldn't have been engaged in talks unless the Big 12 was ok working around that.

    But instead byu turned up their nose and instead of asking how they could help the stability of the big 12, told the Big 12 they deserved texas-like concesssions.

    And quickly yet another bridge was burned. The last bridge byu had to being a part of the future of college football.

    There are power conference teams. And there are mid-majors.

    And the divide between the two is larger than ever, with no paths between the two on the horizon.

    byu fans wont admit it, but I truly don't see an avenue for byu getting in with the big boy.

    "Quest for relevance" is OVER!

  • 2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0 Ogden, UT
    May 16, 2014 1:42 p.m.

    How concerned?

    Well, the ACC, SEC, Big 12, and Pac 12 have all essentially told byu they view them just as they view Wyoming, UNVL, and New Mexico State.

    You tell me.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2014 1:43 p.m.

    The truth is that unless you are in a B5 conference, the cards will be stacked against you. Even if BYU were in a B5 conference, there is no way that they would win enough games to make themselves relevant.

    Just keep doing what Mr. Holmoe has stated numerous times - "schedule for a bowl game." In other words, find the worst teams imaginable to schedule to make sure you get to 6 wins. Then go to a meaningless bowl game.

    Cougar fan loves that approach.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    May 16, 2014 1:53 p.m.

    Well done - this article is spin at its very finest. The author should write press releases for the Iraqi Army because this is the sports equivalent of "American blood is flowing down the streets of New York" while there are U.S. tanks visible in the background.

    The SEC also said no to BYU (conveniently omitted from the article). With 2 of the 5 already saying no, it pretty much guarantees the rest will say no as well, including the PAC12 which BYU needs in order to survive (irony at its finest).

    There is a de facto division-within-a-division emerging in college football and BYU is very much on the wrong side of the fence.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    May 16, 2014 2:04 p.m.

    I'm amazed that I'm the only BYU fan commenting so far. The Ute fans seem insistent on keeping spinning their position better than it is.

    BYU will be fine in all this.

  • KVN/Hoff want 0-4 against UTAH Ogden, UT
    May 16, 2014 2:12 p.m.

    Power Conferences = New Division 1

    mid majors = New Division II

    Division I will have our own playoffs

    Division II can do whatever they want, we don't care. But you wont be part of our playoffs.

    byu is in real jeopardy of permanently separating from the big boys, with no hope of return.

    If I was Holmoe, I'd be calling the Big 12 and tell them byu is willing to PAY to join the league.

    Either that or start talking with the other mid-majors about where the division II Playoffs will be held.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    May 16, 2014 2:13 p.m.

    LOL... this is worse than Nazi propaganda.

    But if you say things are great enough times...mabye they'll believe

  • Uncle Rico Sandy, UT
    May 16, 2014 2:15 p.m.

    If BYU wants to be considered an elite team, they cannot lose to teams like Virginia. Winning strengthens the brand. BYU already has a lot of the intangibles, international fan base, ESPN contract etc.. They just need to win those big games.

  • Koke Spanish Fork, UT
    May 16, 2014 2:31 p.m.

    We have to win. Right now we deserve the way we are being treated. If we were performing like an elite team, the press would go to town on these conferences for excluding us. No one will go to bat for us because there isn't a good argument.

    Beat a few good teams every year and whip the rest and the media will start screaming about the injustice of our exclusion.

    For now, we've earned ignominy. Let's uplevel our performance in recruiting, coaching, and on the field.

  • Oatmeal Woods Cross, UT
    May 16, 2014 2:32 p.m.

    If the ACC and SEC refuse to schedule BYU, but must play the Big 5, they will be filling slots on those other conference schedules that BYU would ordinarily have a shot at. It also reveals an inherent bias against BYU. BYU IS on the outside looking in. Unless the landscape changes (perfect season and/or the B12 comes calling), BYU football is going to go into a decline. The ESPN contract will not last forever.

    Bronco, your team has to win. Or BYU football (and by extension BYU athletics) will go in the direction of BYU-Idaho and BYU-Hawaii.

  • CodyCougar Madison, SD
    May 16, 2014 2:33 p.m.

    If the cougars would have taken care of business against ACC doormat Virginia last year, the vote may have been different. But I would hate to be Virginia in Provo this fall. They will feel the Coogs wrath: 55-7.

  • CodyCougar Madison, SD
    May 16, 2014 2:39 p.m.

    Thanks Cecil Samuelson. Your work here is done. Enjoy your view of the carnage from your Crimson Club sofa.

  • BYU DUDE Provo, UT
    May 16, 2014 2:41 p.m.

    As a avid BYU fan it kills me to agree with Darth Vader Chris B but the PAC 12 will follow suit soon.
    Tom Holmoe = Bagdad Bob ) and he is doing the TEXAS TWO STEP hold your breath Cougar Fans.

  • 1978 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2014 2:50 p.m.

    @Chris B

    "The Big 12 extended byu the lifeline of a lifetime and what did byu tell the big 12?

    "Treat us like Texas because we are like Texas""

    Did you just admit that a power conference wanted BYU? Wow!

    BTW I do agree with you BYU should have humbly accepted the offer and reliquished their TV rights etc. I am still upset about that one.

  • El Chango Supremo Rexburg, ID
    May 16, 2014 2:51 p.m.

    Big 12 Call Yet?,

    How do you know what went on in the conversations between Holmoe & the Big 12? Were you present?

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 16, 2014 2:51 p.m.

    BYU has just been relegated to the kiddie table. If one more conference of the P5 refuses to recognize BYU as a P5 equal the others will be forced to do the same--and when that happens BYU football will be finished. Independence has failed miserably ESPN contract aside the decline is already started and will just snowball from here.

  • esodije ALBUQUERQUE, NM
    May 16, 2014 3:02 p.m.

    BYU fans can take comfort in the certainty that if the "power" conferences really do succeed in self-segregating into some kind of "Super" football Division I, thereby relegating everyone else into a de facto Division II, Congress ~will~ intervene. What happens at that point is anyone's guess, but the elitists will have asked for it.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    May 16, 2014 3:03 p.m.

    Pushing the Panic Button is optional. There is a way out of this mess:

    The five power conferences will still have some teams to add and BYU can be one of them. I believe the "No Sunday Play" rule can be accommodated. Maintaining Television rights will not be accommodated. That is the central issue that needs to be resolved. If BYU holds out, they will be left out. I think its that simple.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    May 16, 2014 3:04 p.m.

    Chris B: Who is we? Has the PAC 12 now hired you as one of their executives? Where is your documentation that the BIG 12 offered BYU to become a member of their conference? I have never seen or heard of that. There was talk in the media, but you must know how the media works - they exist by selling news and much of what they sell is made up. Please let us know of your sources if you want your posts to be credible. Just because you say it doesn't mean it is so. Thank you for being such a great BYU fan. I hope you are as great a fan for your beloved Utah - oh, I should say your beloved PAC 12.

  • hobbes1012003 Kaysville, UT
    May 16, 2014 3:10 p.m.

    Wow, nothing but BYU haters loving the fact that BYU is struggling with conference issues. Thats just sad. I do however agree that Tom Holmoe messed up by not graciously accepting whatever offer the Big12 offered. Now our chances of being invited to any power conference are slim. Stories like this one are only the beginning. Too early to panic? might as well get an early start to panicing, because the future of college football isnt looking to good. Sad day for the Cougs

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    May 16, 2014 3:28 p.m.

    I still liked the idea of what the Big East tried to do, by having an eastern division and a western division. Perhaps BYU could team up with the better teams of that league, along with some big name teams and the top teams of the MWC, and form a new league, and sponsor a bowl game to go along with it. Teams such as Houston, Army, BSU, Utah State, and BYU would form a nucleus for the new league. I think it might work. However, for now, indy is probably better, until we see what happens with the 5 power conferences.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    May 16, 2014 3:30 p.m.

    Utah should be worried too. You saw what happened with smu, houston, rice and tcu. Only tcu was welcome back who once was SWC. U keep on losing to those pacs then they may tell you take the EXIT. Mark That Down!

  • Big 12 Call Yet? Ogden, UT
    May 16, 2014 3:39 p.m.

    1978,

    I think that yes byu had it within the reach to make a deal with the big 12, but instead of humility byu showed arrogance.

    And if the arrogance was warranted, like in the case of Texas, it would be somewhat understandable. But to show that arrogance when there is no reason(i.e. your program isn't nearly as powerful or respected as you think it is) was crazy.

    And thus we see why everyone has the opinion they do of byu. Its not a sunday thing.

    And make note byu "had" the chance to make a deal with the big 12.

    What do you think the big 12 thinks of byu now that they showed this arrogance?

    Think the big 12 will be calling back ever again?

    Ya right, keep dreaming. They'd rather not have a title game even though they want one rather than invite byu.

    That's how low they think of byu after byu's attitude.

  • portlander Arlington, WA
    May 16, 2014 3:43 p.m.

    14 of the 19 comments so far, have been from Utah, and no doubt, are from Ute fan/haters. But BYU is so much more than some podunk statewide/regional college. It is a very powerful and well respected University, not only in the US, but around the world! If you yokels think that this organization, powered from on high, is going to roll over, dry up and blow away with the wind, you are very much mistaken, as well as very short-sighted.

    Mark my words! The lord always snatches victory from the jaws defeat, and this issue will be just one more testament to that fact.

    I also feel that the change in missionary age will have an even greater impact on BYU sports. Fewer guys will start, stop, serve and then try to start again. They can now get out and serve, and still come back in time to fully participate in their favorite program. I look forward to the progress that this new policy will produce. And you should be too...unless your team is just a statewide/Utah team. (Ask ESPN. They know what I'm talking about! Worldwide Baby! Worldwide!)

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    May 16, 2014 3:46 p.m.

    What's wrong with going back to the WAC and playing for a conference championship? As a famous football coach once said "We're not who we think we are. Playoffs? What Playoffs?"

  • Darren Rowe Heber City, UT
    May 16, 2014 3:46 p.m.

    BYU is still more attractive to play than a good chunk of power 5 teams.

    I know ute fans will criticize me for saying BYU is a better scheduling option than utah, but think about it.

    If you visit Provo, you play in front of 64,000 on the ESPN Networks. Good exposure/money, and the visiting team gets part of that money. Also, BYU ALWAYS finishes higher than utah in the overall rankings. Is that fair? Maybe not, but that's simply how it's been. We strengthen other team's schedules more than utah.

    In Salt Lake, you play in front of 45,000 on the Pac-12 Network. Less money, less exposure, and they add less to your strength of schedule.

    Think I'm the only one who thinks this way? Ask Texas, Notre Dame, USC, Wisconsin, and a lot more power 5 schools who either already have come to Provo or will in the future.

    I know utah only has 3 slots, but only Michigan has been willing to come. Other than that, it's Idaho St, Fresno St, Utah St, etc.

    Either utah isn't man enough to add more power teams, or power teams don't want to play in Salt Lake.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    May 16, 2014 3:50 p.m.

    If BYU wants to be relevant, they should have focused on winning more key matchups 10 years ago a la Boise State, Utah and TCU. If you want to be taken seriously and have a case for playing with the big boys, you've got to win, win, win. BYU's been resting on past wins from 20 years ago.

    That said, I'm pretty tired of all the little Ute fans posting here. Max Hall was right!!

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    May 16, 2014 4:01 p.m.

    Wow. Nothing shouts insecurity like having 9 of the first 11 posts coming from fans of a school that supposedly "moved on." It is obvious which school in Utah has "mid-major" fans... maybe it's because their teams can't win any games.

    Are BYU fans concerned as this article suggests? I think most of us feel the same way about BYU and its future as we did last week. The future is uncertain which stinks, but independence is still a step up from MWC.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    May 16, 2014 4:05 p.m.

    How concerned should they be?

    Well, do they want to be a division I program and play a meaningful season or do they want to be like Wyoming and the other essentially division II teams?

  • GD Syracuse, UT
    May 16, 2014 4:21 p.m.

    When people such as Chris B make statements about what Holmoe said to the Big 12 is maddening. You have no facts and can't back up what you are stating as facts. State it as an opinion because you don't really know.
    Thank you

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    May 16, 2014 4:23 p.m.

    I think Tom and Bronco care but there isn't much they can do. BYU is headed for the sellar in NCAA athletics or at least total mediocrity and although I don't foresee the terminating of the football program I do see a slide down to some insignificant level where they can compete. Gone are the days of attracting and producing All-American QB's and being able to beat anybody in the country on a given Saturday. I suspect the NCAA is only going to increase it's sunday play as well which means the Y is even more on the outside looking in. It was fun while it lasted.

  • evansrichdm west jordan , UT
    May 16, 2014 4:26 p.m.

    Worried not at all. We have out drafted Utah in the NFL two years in a row. We have standford lined up and ND happening in the future. Those so call power conf will want to play BYU for a number of reason, time on ESPN, selling of seats, and BYU is a good match for most years. Recuits are line up for BYU, which BYU just beat Utah this year, and we are able to watch our games on ESPN. I see nothing to worry about. The big power conf are just pulling this because they are getting worried with the play off system coming and more then likely expanding into 8 if not 16 teams and they will not have the pull they once did with recuits or money. It will show how weak they really are.
    For Utah please just win some games and stop embressing the state. If people look down on BYU it is because they see Utah is doing so badly and can only beat BYU.

  • JD Las Vegas, NV
    May 16, 2014 4:28 p.m.

    BYU fans should really let this decision sink in and really take it to heart. It is reality, big smack of reality, and it looks to only get worse. Things are not going well in the land of being an Independent. The status is clearly spelled out, BYU is NOT considered as a program on the first tier level of college football. Winning 8-10 games a year and playing in a pre-arranged pre-Christmas Day bowl game is not glorious. Arguing with the world (and with PAC-12 Ute fans) on how great things are in Provo is not the truth. BYU is a mid-major team and an invitation to join is not going to happen. This message was sent loud and clear. There is not a way to justify otherwise. Facts are the facts, and pretending that everything is fine and superior is just living in make believe land. Take ownership of the second tier status and try to excel at that level. There are teams and programs that rank higher than BYU even at the second tier. So it should be some good competition to try to rise up and battle with the mid major schools, good luck!

  • Krispy Zadoosh Salt Lake, UT
    May 16, 2014 4:37 p.m.

    54-10
    "The truth is that unless you are in a B5 conference, the cards will be stacked against you. Even if BYU were in a B5 conference, there is no way that they would win enough games to make themselves relevant."

    Utah PAC 12 south record
    4-5 2011
    3-6 2012
    2-7 2013
    Looks like your statement is correct...for more teams than just BYU. Although in Utah's case,it is proven. In Byu's, still theoretical.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 16, 2014 4:45 p.m.

    Portlander,

    Do you really think the Lord cares about BYU football? He has bigger and more important things on his mind.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 16, 2014 4:46 p.m.

    FT,

    The WAC doesn't play football anymore.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 16, 2014 4:55 p.m.

    Darren Rowe,

    Last season Utah had one of the five toughest schedules in the country. That fact by itself elevated the SOS for every team we played including BYU. The same will be true this year with 4 or 5 teams on our schedule already ranked in some of the 'way to early' rankings. So we do a lot for a team's SOS. Also, you must have not been paying attention to the Pac 12 TV deal. It includes ESPN and Fox and all of our games last year got better coverage than several of BYU's games that were sent to ESPNU which gets into fewer homes nationwide than the Pac 12 Network. I'm not worried about Utah's future scheduling and the fact there aren't any writers fretting about it while there have been a flood of articles this week fretting about BYU's scheduling should tell you something.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 16, 2014 5:52 p.m.

    Mormon Ute

    "Last season Utah had one of the five toughest schedules in the country. That fact by itself elevated the SOS for every team we played including BYU."

    Not true.

    Utah's ranking, NOT Utah's SOS, is what determines whether the SOS for teams playing Utah is enhanced.

    Do you really think that playing the 120th ranked team would enhance your schedule, just because that team played the toughest SOS in the country?

  • blue & white Boise, ID
    May 16, 2014 5:55 p.m.

    Behind closed doors the SEC and ACC purposely schemed to leave BYU off the big 5 schedule. Why agree to BYU as big 5 when half of the teams in the ACC and SEC BYU can beat. it looks embarrassing to them. The teams from both conferences still need to schedule 4 games so lets see how many times those games are taken up with the bottom half big 5 teams and teams like Idaho, Wyoming, etc.They use no Sunday play as a reason not to admit BYU to a conference. That is religious discrimination. BYU on the other hand needs to step up to the plate and beat some ranked teams consistently. Can't loose to the team up north and Virginia. I am proud of BYU and what it stands for. Go cougars!

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    May 16, 2014 7:15 p.m.

    If you are a serious fan and want to get an expert writer's opinion, go look at the comments from ESPN writer Kyle Bonagura on the May 16th PAC 12 football blog. He responds to a readers question with, what I would consider an accurate comment. He basically says if BYU wants to be considered on a plane with Notre Dame they need to improve their schedule. The Y has averaged 5 games against Power Conference teams in the past few years, has 3 on the schedule this year, and only 2 for next year. If you schedule a bunch of mid majors, you program is viewed as a mid major.

  • I Choose Freedom Atlanta, GA
    May 16, 2014 8:17 p.m.

    Come on BYU, you lost to Virginia and Utah. How in the world do you ever expect to be taken seriously? If you can't beat the dregs of the football world then how could you ever hope to compete against real football teams?

  • portlander Arlington, WA
    May 16, 2014 8:28 p.m.

    BYU and it's sports programs are certainly part of the Lord's plan, and so, the answer is "yes", He is concerned over the football program. He's especially concerned over the players and how the program fits with mission of the Church, as well as how it fits within the overall plan of salvation!

    Now, I am not saying that He's "rooting" for the Cougs...He loves all of His children and wants all of them to succeed! But what the question has been is whether the program will succeed or whether it is doomed to failure. And I am maintaining that no program of the Lord's is doomed to failure. It may not measure up to "worldly" standards, but only the "worldly" care about that anyway! The rest of us, just enjoy that BYU is as good as it is and we celebrate the success in the achievements of the members of it's teams!

    So take it easy! It's only a game after all!

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 16, 2014 9:16 p.m.

    I just have to jump in and say one thing to Chris and his cronies. How in the world do you know how BYU approached the Big 12 or how they approached BYU? Fact is you, like the rest of us, have no idea. What I do know is that BOTH the Big 12 and BYU came out with statements after their discussions of mutual respect for one another...NEITHER side said boo about BYU being arrogant or asking for "Texas like treatment". Look I'm fine if you want insist on trolling everything BYU, but stop making stuff up just to help you feel better...you're a poor representative of most Utah fans that I know as honest and classy people.

    That said, BYU needs to sit down with all negotiations, except Sunday play, on the table. BYU and Cincy have good fanbases, are winning programs that reside in modest sized TV markets. They only pay BYU and Cincy whatever they increase the tv revenue. Big 12 gets CCG which actually increases current teams income, and Big 12 avoids the pressure that is surely coming to have equal structure to the rest of the P5 conferences. Get it done Holmoe!

  • Justmythoughts Provo, UT
    May 16, 2014 9:19 p.m.

    Not many comments from BYU fans here.... But holy cow, the Utah fans love to comment on articles about BYU.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2014 10:04 p.m.

    The article points out that "[t]he Cougars have played just four ACC and SEC teams since the Cougars went independent." Yet, for some reason, Holmoe feels compelled to approach the SEC and the ACC and ask them to consider byu-provo one the elite so that he can get preferred treatment on their schedule. Have I got that right?

    If this is all about finding somebody teams to play, why doesn't Holmoe realize that even with every team in the P5 conferences playing only 3 games outside of those conferences he has an opportunity to schedule 142 (count'em 142) games with P5 teams every single year? Where are they on his schedule?

    This isn't about scheduling games at all, is it Tom. This is about you (Holmoe) pulling another Utah St stunt to get the ACC and the SEC to recognize byu-provo as a P5 caliber program so you can weasel your way into the elite. Look at it this way, Tom, the SEC and ACC are only doing what is best for them. Too bad it slams the door on byu-provo.

    Oh, well, what goes around...

  • gbo Draper, UT
    May 16, 2014 10:13 p.m.

    @ Big 12 Call Yet?

    Were you present in the discussions with the Big 12? Were you actually there? Do you know what happened? Please share your first hand knowledge of the situation, who you spoke with, etc.

  • BioPowertrain Detroit, MI
    May 16, 2014 10:39 p.m.

    Lots of AAC teams want to schedule us! We're quasi-aligned with the AAC now! Wow, what a terrifying article.

    Look, I don't want to be perceived as allied w/mid-Major conferences or teams. I want in with the power conferences. That's why we built a 65,000 seat stadium 30 years ago, to become part of big-time college football!

    I'm sick of not having any chance at the national championship for over 20 years now. It really hasn't been good. And it doesn't look too good going forward. Anti-trust legal action may be our only recourse, and I don't see us going there.

  • From Ted's Head Orem, UT
    May 16, 2014 11:23 p.m.

    Reading many of these comments one might think that the main purpose of a university is to field a football team. So what if BYU is on the outside looking in? And it's hardly the end of the world should the best football players who might have come to BYU opt to go elsewhere. I think the bigger issue is the apparent need for some BYU fans to have a legitimate, respected, winning football team. Get past yourselves and support whatever team BYU puts out there. Can't win the national championship? Oh well. Life will go on.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2014 11:35 p.m.

    @ Darren Rowe

    Utah finished higher than BYU in the rankings as recently as last year. So no, BYU does not ALWAYS finish higher than Utah in the rankings. Also, Pitt, Oregon, Cal, Oregon St., North Carolina, UCLA, Texas A&M, Louisville, and Arizona have all been non-conference opponents that have visited RES in the past decade. Not to mention, if you play at Utah it doesn't look as bad if you lose because they are a P5 team. See: Stanford last year. If you play and lose to BYU, your season takes a huge hit because the Cougars are a mid-major. See: Texas, who immediately started to clean house after the BYU game.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2014 11:44 p.m.

    @ blue & white

    Conferences not allowing BYU due to Sunday play is NOT religious discrimination. BYU chooses not to play on Sunday, which is perfectly fine. But in doing so, they also don't meet the requirements to be a member of that said conference.

    It's like applying for a job. If the job requires you to work on Sunday, but you refuse to do so due to your religion, they are going to hire somebody who will. It's not discrimination. It's business. And it's legal.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2014 12:30 a.m.

    BigPowertrain "Not having any chance at the national championship for over 20 years. Anti-trust legal action may be our only recourse".
    BYU has the opportunity to play for the national championship if they earn it. They choose NOT to earn it.

    Look at Florida State's schedule. Now look at BYU's. Look at Auburn's schedule. Now look at BYU's. See the difference? Florida State and Auburn earned their way to the National Championship. You can't sue your way into the game.

  • AggieAndee Holladay, UT
    May 17, 2014 1:17 a.m.

    The power conferences have decided that BYU does not have the talent nor the tradition to get a seat at the big boy's table. It's the correct decision.

    BYU is not welcome back in the MWC either...

  • Paul Revere American Fork, UT
    May 17, 2014 2:03 a.m.

    @Chris B Having lived in SEC country I can tell you that they look at the PAC 12 as a mid major conference. So for them to not recognize BYU as a member of the Power 5 group is really no big deal. Having friends who are Alabama fans they have very little respect for members of conferences other then the SEC and the Big 12. Even after the Utah victory over Bama in the Sugar Bowl several years ago they still had very little regard for Utah and looked at that victory as a fluke. As for the ACC's snub this makes little sense in light of the fact that BYU has trashed Georgia Tech and Syracuse and played great games with Boston College. You and your Ute friends need to see the big picture and realize that even in the PAC 12 you will need to go undefeated and hope that two SEC teams have more then one loss a piece other wise you will not play play for a national title any more then BYU. The SEC will always put a one loss team in the Championship over an undefeated or one loss PAC 12 school, just ask USC.

  • Jefe-Ute SLC, UT
    May 17, 2014 7:51 a.m.

    It would be really nice to have someone show proof that the Big 12 even OFFERED BYU the chance to join the conference. All this talk about how Tom handled the situation, and yet I can't find an article saying that there was ever an offer. I do find that BYU was heavily recruited by the former Big East, yet BYU refused to share their ESPN contract and shut the door on the Big East. If they did that with the Big East, it's safe to say that is what is holding them back from joining another conference.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2014 8:00 a.m.

    This snub sets a VERY dangerous future precedent. The Athletic programs in Provo could very easily go the dierection simiar programs in Rexburg and Hawaii have headed.

  • Strider303 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2014 8:09 a.m.

    IMO football is entertainment, not life. Lots of speculation in these comments is based upon emotion and unknowns. If BYU sports or any college team's sports is the highlight and be all, end all of a person's life - how shallow.

    Football is fun or should be to play and to watch. Have a good time, shout, sing and cheer, then go home and continue with life.

    College athletics should not be farm teams for the professional leagues. In that light, I really don't care what league the "Y" joins, if they do join a league. I would hope those on the field represent the university's ideals and goals.

    I have some empathy for Utah, alternate choice to fill out a league vacancy, most likely to be voted PAC-12 Miss Congeniality but that's about it. Both schools will not compete successfully for enough top tier athletes to make a national championship team. That's life, deal with it.

    This whole discussion is such a First World problem.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    May 17, 2014 8:21 a.m.

    BYU is in a serious pickle.

    P5 teams will not want to schedule them if it's a likely loss, because losing to a non-P5 school will be like losing to a FCS/1-AA school is now.

    But they're not viewed as P5 material because they don't play enough P5 schools.

    This is a classic Catch-22.

    If the Big-10 follows suit - which seems likely, as the P5 schools start to separate into a higher tier - this will only add urgency to BYU getting into the Big-12 at whatever cost. If the Big-12 decides to not add football-only schools, and Sunday play is a TV issue for non-football sports, BYU is toast.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    May 17, 2014 9:03 a.m.

    If you sort through all the issues, it seems BYU's best chance long term is to join the Big-12.

    One issue for BYU may be the limited TV market in Utah. In other words, is the Utah TV market large enough to support two P5 "franchises"? Denver is evidently big enough to only support one, but has over twice as many TV viewers.

    As Utah has learned (the hard way), scheduling P5 teams nine times a year will put a dent in your Win-Loss record.

    Over the course of 10-20 years, if BYU and Utah are both stuck in the middle of their respective conferences, will there be enough interest to sustain the TV market in Utah at high levels? I don't think you can just assume it will.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    May 17, 2014 9:17 a.m.

    BYU has to win the games they have on their slate and continue crafting strong schedules with the upper tier teams from around the nation. While casual fans balk at having MTS, USU, Houston or UCF on the schedule, these are teams that have been at or near the top of their leagues recently and are worth way more than beating a team that doesn't make bowls. Besides the Cougars will still get scheduling agreements with teams from the SEC or ACC about as often as they have had in the past.

    2014's slate looks to be very strong and probably a top 40 schedule if not higher. In the event that the Cougars win out, a couple of their opponents win their leagues and the bad teams on the schedule win more BYU will make the playoffs. Cougars are in a fine place.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2014 9:26 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs

    "That said, BYU needs to sit down with all negotiations, except Sunday play, on the table."

    You make it sound as though all byu has to do is say the right things and presto, byu is part of the elite. What is it with you people? Clearly, the ACC and SEC don't believe that byu is entitled to anything. Maybe byu should should take on the arduous task earning their way to the table. It will be a tough slog with no shortcuts but it is far more "honorable" than asking (and expecting) handouts.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    May 17, 2014 9:49 a.m.

    Jefe-Ute:

    I agree there appears to be no tangible evidence of an offer from the Big-12 to BYU, implying those who castigate Tom Holmoe and the BYU Administration may be off target.

    But it's is known that BYU was in discussions with the Big-12, who were evidently having discussions with other schools, too. Evidently, TCU went from having informal discussions to being formally invited very, very quickly, maybe even 24 hours.

    My sense is the issue that really prevented a similar "fast-track invitation" for BYU was Sunday play. If this is true, BYU fans need to just let it go, it was never meant to be. The Big-12 may or may not be interested in inviting a football-only school, but that's BYU's only serious chance of getting in the P5 club.

  • Ken Lee Pasadena, CA
    May 17, 2014 10:16 a.m.

    These Ute fans are soooo concerned and reading every article about BYU sports. You have to love their obsession with the Cougars. Just like everyone in Utah, there is only one program of interest and it is BYU football, basketball, men's volleyball, rugby all of it, all the time go Cougs. The Utes have to stay home each year and think about how great all those losses were and their strength of schedule was, again. Tripped up Stanford and BYU last year? Sorry, you lost to Wash, ASU, USC, UCLA, OSU, AZ, ORE, and even Wazzou! Nice to be in a power 5 conference with a sub-mid major talent level. Your future is so dim you have to spend all your time reading about BYU. I love that. We all do that. Cougs had a bad year, sure (8-5). But we played a bowl game, had fan interest, all our games on ESPN or DirecTV, beat Texas (better than almost all the PAC12 teams) and had an embarrassing loss to WA in a bowl game, WA, a school we beat with Riley Nelson/Jake Heaps a few years ago. But, you will play on Sunday! Nice! keep at it.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 17, 2014 11:06 a.m.

    Paul Revere:

    "Having lived in SEC country I can tell you that they look at the PAC 12 as a mid major conference."

    Nope. I too had once lived in SEC country (as well as ACC, BigTen, SWC, and Big 8 countries), and they most certainly do NOT think of the Pac-12 (nor the ACC, BigTen, or Big 12 for that matter) as a midmajor conference. You made that up. How frantic and emotional of you.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    May 17, 2014 11:14 a.m.

    Much ado about nothing. Whether or not BYU is not on ACC and SEC list does not mean they won't be scheduled. Remember, this is not a "DON'T PLAY BYUI" list. Will the conferences be able to forbid an ESPN prime time game with BYU?
    Nah.

    Money talks.

    Besides, if SOS counts, BYU will be good enough to register. SOS is not based on your conference, it is about your record this year. You beat tough teams, you bring up your opponent's SOS. Say BYU beats an Oregon and a Texas, Utah, Boise, and Utah State along with a couple of fillers. Is that SOS weaker than UCLA who loses to USC and Oregon and beats Utah, WSC, Colorado, Oregon State, and Cal? No. BYU would rank higher.

    That schedule, if BYU wins out, would likely get them ranked top 10. Without playing a single SEC or ACC team.

    Just win, and all will be well. If not? Well, they'll still be playing football like they've been doing for 100 years.

    Besides, my bet is that the playoffs will expand to eight teams. Soon.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    May 17, 2014 11:14 a.m.

    RE: Mormon Ute

    I don't know how you inferred from Portlander's post that the Lord does or does not care about BYU football (he didn't), but since you asked... I think he does. I expect He has a personality and hobbies just like the rest of us and I can't think of a better diversion than BYU football. Obviously from your posts we can deduce that you feel the same way. It's great to be a fan of the most popular sports program in Utah. Go Cougs!

  • Paul Revere American Fork, UT
    May 17, 2014 11:17 a.m.

    Epilogue to my last post. To all you U Fans who like to say that BYU was not invited to join the PAC 12 was due to the perception that BYU is viewed as a mid major school. I am not able to say for sure why BYU was not invited, but my father who coached FOOTBALL in the PAC 10, gave me the follow reasons:1. BYU is a faith based institution and the Presidents of the PAC 10 did not want this type of school as they believe it is restrictive of thought and free speech., 2. BYU's primary goal is to provide its' students with the best possible undergraduate education-see the Engineering, Marriott School of Business, Animation programs etc as they are among the best in the nation. Finally you all should know the ADs of the PAC 10 did want BYU because of their competitiveness and economic value. BYU fills LES and the Marriott Center and BYU is a great draw putting a lot of fans in the seats. Good luck to the U at getting into the new playoff format I think you have as much chance as BYU.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2014 12:38 p.m.

    10CC
    Bountiful, UT

    "If you sort through all the issues, it seems BYU's best chance long term is to join the Big-12...Over the course of 10-20 years, if BYU and Utah are both stuck in the middle of their respective conferences, will there be enough interest to sustain the TV market in Utah at high levels? I don't think you can just assume it will."

    I don't think you can assume that byu will have a conference to be in the middle of. How do you people talk yourselves into believing that the Big-12 will come calling at any minute? For 30 years I listened to byu fans talk like their invitation to the Pac-12 was immanent and look what that got you. It's always more fun to see it in writing, though.

  • Darren Rowe Heber City, UT
    May 17, 2014 12:48 p.m.

    @Two For Flinching

    You must have been looking at Chris B's official rankings or something, becasue utah did not finish ranked higher than BYU last year, or any year that you have been Pac-12 and we have been independent.

    And when I talked about teams who were willing to come to Rice-Eccles, I was referring to the last 3 years, when they have been a Pac-12 member, and any future schedules they have lined up. I did not mention Florida State, Arizona, or UCLA who came to Provo when we were MWC members, because I was focusing on 2011 and beyond. That was my mistake though, I should have clarified that better.

    Your comparison of Stanford to Texas is flawed. Texas finished 8-4 in the regular season and was tied for 2nd in the Big 12, and they were 4th after tiebreakers. Stanford, on the other hand, was 11-2 before their bowl game and they were Pac-12 champions. The BYU loss isn't what kept Texas from a BCS game. They simply weren't quite good enough anyway. Stanford was.

  • Levin Reno, NV
    May 17, 2014 12:53 p.m.

    I see this less as a diss on BYU in particular, but a perhaps shortsighted decision by Holmoe to pursue a "BYU exemption" without banding with equally deserving schools such as Central Florida, Cincinnati, and Boise State. As the ACC commish, the question as posed, "Let BYU in, without making exemptions for these other conferences?" is easily answered "No, that would make no sense."

    What those teams really need to do is force the B5 to explain why they have effectively squeezed out the better mid-majors instead eliminating the much easier FCS (D-IAA) teams that are on almost everyone's schedule. Sure, it will be embarrassing for Virginia Tech, Michigan, Florida, and Oregon State to dredge up memories of losses to those teams, but it's the right strategy.

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    May 17, 2014 1:20 p.m.

    So now you're relevant if you don't go to bowl games OR have a winning record for years?? Just because you're a member of a conference? Tell us again how many NC's Kansas has in football?

  • 4Freedom Columbus, OH
    May 17, 2014 1:23 p.m.

    I am an avid BYU fan. The answer to this is and has been simple for quite a while - win more games and win the big ones regularly, not every once in a while. Start winning big games regularly and other teams will recognize us as a power team.

    On another note, it is remarkable to see how many people there are who feel insecure or threatened until they have bashed the Cougars.

  • oddman ,
    May 17, 2014 2:01 p.m.

    Ha, ha, I have to laugh at all the doomsayers comments. There are a fistful of top teams that set the table for everyone else. Don't delude yourselves thinking member in a so-called 5 power conferences makes you one of the top teams. If my recollection serves me correctly there are 2 teams from each conference (excluding the Big 12) that playoff each year to see who sits atop the pecking order. And hard as I try, I can't remember but a few teams that are there year after year. How does irrevelance in a Power Conference really feel?

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2014 2:47 p.m.

    Steven S Jarvis
    Orem, UT

    "While casual fans balk at having MTS, USU, Houston or UCF on the schedule, these are teams that have been at or near the top of their leagues recently and are worth way more than beating a team that doesn't make bowls."

    Apparently the SEC and ACC doesn't agree with your view. Are you paying attention to what is happening here?

    Ken Lee
    Pasadena, CA

    "Just like everyone in Utah, there is only one program of interest and it is BYU football, basketball, men's volleyball, rugby all of it, all the time go Cougs. The Utes have to stay home each year and think about how great all those losses were and their strength of schedule was, again. Tripped up Stanford and BYU last year? Sorry, you lost to Wash, ASU, USC, UCLA, OSU, AZ, ORE, and even Wazzou! Nice to be in a power 5 conference with a sub-mid major talent level."

    This is precisely the kind of thinking that has landed byu in the pickle they are in today. This is precisely the kind of priceless thinking that caused this train wreck.

  • Cosmo1974 Woods Cross, UT
    May 17, 2014 3:01 p.m.

    It seems humorous to me that all the Utah "fans" a.k.a. BYU haters think BYU would not do well if included in a P5 conference. How do you know? Can you see into the future? I think there is a feeling out there that you play to the level of your competition. If your team, BYU or Utah for example, is playing a team such as Stanford, Oregon, Alabama, etc., they may play better than if they were playing teams such as Idaho St., New Mexico, Duke, etc. The team may not win all of those "prestigious" games and they may even get blown out. But the level of play would probably be on a lot higher level than playing a so called mid-major team. So back to my question, despite BYU's lack of playing and beating P5 teams recently, nobody can say how BYU would do if included in a P5 conference. And by the way, Utah "fans" don't have much room to talk. Their team hasn't beaten very many P5 conference teams recently either. Things may get better, but as of right now, Utah is a power team in name only.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    May 17, 2014 3:29 p.m.

    "How does irrevelance in a Power Conference really feel?"

    It feels like the Utes are in an exclusive club where the members band together, respect each other and disdain outsiders.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2014 3:45 p.m.

    Paul Revere
    American Fork, UT

    "To all you U Fans who like to say that BYU was not invited to join the PAC 12 was due to the perception that BYU is viewed as a mid major school. I am not able to say for sure why BYU was not invited..." Then you should leave it right there and not not pursue further.

    Your first reason is contrived wishful thinking that paints byu as a victim. Your second reason, if true, is what the Pac-12 is all about and therefore makes no sense. Although I will say that the Pac-12 is equally interested in graduate level academics. byu, not so much. Regardless, the Pac-10 presidents and chancellors were very clear about what they looked for when they expanded and the University of Utah was a perfect fit.

    Please note, it is not "us U Fans who like to say that byu was not invited because..." it is you byu fans who won't (or can't) accept byu's failures. You have only yourselves to blame. For decades, byu has been about sports, sports, and sports. Ooops!

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    May 17, 2014 5:33 p.m.

    Seems to me it's a reasonable possibility that the SEC, etc did not want to include BYU because they knew there's a reasonable chance BYU could win. Can't pass up Notre Dame because of the money they'd (the non-Notre Dame school) receive, even if they lose, but BYU might be considered too much of a threat and what losing to BYU might mean. Anyone who follows college football knows that a bad game (like against Virginia) happens now and then. Remember when Michigan lost to a Division II school 4 or 5 yrs ago? Sometimes weird things like that just happen.

    (And, no, I'm not suggesting that BYU is on the level of Michigan, or that Virginia is like a Division II school, I'm just saying that sometimes "better" teams lose to "lower" teams.)

    On a different note, sure is interesting how many Ute fans are on here telling us BYU fans just how bad we are. I mean if we're really "bad", wouldn't it be self-evident? I agree with what Margaret Thatcher once said: "If you have to tell people you're a lady, you're not."

    Go Cougars!

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    May 17, 2014 5:38 p.m.

    Darren Rowe

    Utah DID finish higher than BYU football last season in the Sagarin rankings (#36 to #35 if I remember right).

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    May 17, 2014 6:09 p.m.

    You've got to love uninformed statements like this one from MyPerspective:

    "For decades, byu has been about sports, sports, and sports. Ooops!"

    Obviously he/she doesn't know that BYU is #1 in the nation for graduate school placement and top 5 (among ALL colleges and universities, including liberal arts colleges) for medical school placement, law school placement, and business school placement. As an undergraduate/teaching focused institution BYU has a legitimate argument for being a better preparatory school than the likes of Harvard, Stanford, and MIT. That AND they have an amazing sports program, music program, animation program, business school...

  • Linsk Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2014 6:27 p.m.

    Frank Arnold said,:" You are always hated when your good." About every place that BYU plays at have their highest attendance of the year. Look at how Utah used to be. That's the only time they could get a sell out. I think BYU will be alright. ESPN see's the numbers, and any Athletic Director knows he will get a bunch of Mormons coming to the game.... who know maybe he will make less money on beer ?????

  • Paul Revere American Fork, UT
    May 17, 2014 8:25 p.m.

    @Navy Vet, I am sorry but you are dead wrong or you do not know any die hard SEC fans, or football coaches in the SEC. As the son of a football coach who coached in the old PAC 8 and then the Southwest Conference and traveled and lived in SEC territory they most certainly think of the PAC 12 as "lesser football". One die hard Bama friend once remarked just last year that the University of Oregon played sissy ball. The only football program I have heard them compliment is USC, and when they do it is often in a back handed manner. As a U fan you need to open your eyes and see where pure power football is played, and according to my friends and father's associates they do not believe that the PAC 12 is power football. Furthermore the U's chances of getting into the playoffs are currently no better then BYU. Anyone from the PAC 12 will still have to be undefeated or at best one loss. Given the U's recent history I don't see that happening anytime soon.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2014 9:07 p.m.

    BleedCougarBlue "Seems to me it's a reasonable possibility that the SEC, etc did not want to include BYU because they knew there's a reasonable chance BYU could win."
    Except that the SEC did not pass on BYU. They simply said, if they play it doesn't count as the major non-conf opponent that they now must schedule. BYU is not hurt by this (other than pride). When a school wants to make a championship run, they'll beef up their mid-major SOS by scheduling BYU.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 17, 2014 9:54 p.m.

    Linsk:

    "About every place that BYU plays at have their highest attendance of the year."

    That's a myth. The only place the Y played at last year that had their "highest attendance of the year" -- per ESPN -- was Utah State....where Romney Stadium drew 25,513 fans.

    But of course, so did Boise St. and Weber St, so the Y only tied for top-draw with those 2 other schools, and only in one game of the 2013 season.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    May 18, 2014 1:59 a.m.

    This just isn't about Football, this is about Revenue and interstate commerce and very illegal in my opinion and I say that from two perspectives... I say it from the State Schools that are left out and discriminated against such as New Mexico, Wyoming, or even North Dakota... Exclusion from a potential opportunity to win the National Championship puts states against states (as States benefit from success in their respective schools)... And, if the Power 5 conferences have the ability to deny other state's opportunities (which this clearly does) then these conferences could be successfully sued and required to cease and desist planning and organizing this exclusionary program...

    Aside from all of that, BYU could be joined by schools such as Boise State, UCF, etc., and their actual stats compared over the years to determine if an unjust practice is being illegally employed by these conferences for excluding teams with a history of greater success which has anti-trust written all over it.

    I boldly predict that the decisions from the ACC and the SEC will be rejected and reversed... And I believe that will happen sooner rather than later.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    May 18, 2014 2:12 a.m.

    As I read many of the fairer minded ute fans comments I find myself having to objectively agree with some of them.. BYU has messed up in not taking care of business against lesser competition from power conferences and in not being more enthused about joining the Big 12 when the opportunity presented itself... It's hard for me to imagine that BYU's past performance doesn't justify Power 5 inclusion... But it's even harder when you hear fans of lesser recognized institutions with poor performances year after year (such as Utah) want to tell us how we should act in order to get that invite that we so badly want... We would much rather hear it from fans of higher quality teams in the leagues such as UCLA, Washington, ASU as opposed to perennial losers such at Utah, Colorado, etc.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 18, 2014 8:51 a.m.

    Wiscougarfan
    River Falls, WI

    "You've got to love uninformed statements like this one from MyPerspective:

    "For decades, byu has been about sports, sports, and sports. Ooops!"

    Obviously he/she doesn't know that BYU is #1 in the nation for graduate school placement and top 5 (among ALL colleges and universities, including liberal arts colleges) for medical school placement, law school placement, and business school placement."

    Precisely the point, graduate school "placement." byu can't meet the graduate level desires / needs of its own undergrad students who must go elsewhere. It (byu) certainly doesn't fit in the Pac-12. But, hey, those on campus athletic facilities sure are nice. Even a baseball field. Wow!

    byu is getting exactly what it has worked so hard for...nothing.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 18, 2014 9:19 a.m.

    poyman
    Lincoln City, OR

    "It's hard for me to imagine that BYU's past performance doesn't justify Power 5 inclusion... But it's even harder when you hear fans of lesser recognized institutions with poor performances year after year (such as Utah) want to tell us how we should act in order to get that invite that we so badly want..."

    Well, poyman, at least you admit that independence is a joke. That's a huge step for you. With respect to your desire of being lectured by UCLA, Washington, ASU fans instead of Utah fans...don't hold your breath because that lecture isn't coming any time soon. Athletically, byu is an abysmal failure when facing what you call "perennial loser" Utes on the field and is well below the bar in what the Pac-12 wants and therefore merits no consideration. Your best case scenario is to be lectured by Baylor, Iowa St, and Kansas.

    You're an attorney so please take a moment to explain to this board how the P5 separating themselves from the rest is any different than the current separation between the FBS and FCS.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    May 18, 2014 9:38 a.m.

    poyman,

    "Revenue and interstate commerce and very illegal"...That's just desperately grasping at straws.

    "We would much rather hear it from fans of higher quality teams in the leagues"
    Nobody in the Power conferences cares about byU, especially not the "higher quality teams" and the "lesser recognized institutions with poor performances year after year (such as Utah)" own byU. byU did nothing in the BCS era. BS, Fresno, Houston and Nevada would be more deserving. Even USU with how they played vs "higher quality teams" might get more consideration.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 18, 2014 4:12 p.m.

    Paul Revere:
    The SEC looks at everyone as "lesser football". They look at the ACC as a weakling more so than the PAC12. However that is the SEC fans, players, and some coaches perception, not the conference's perception and certainly not always reality. As an SEC fan who travels to the south, I think the conferences SEC fans make fun of most are the B1G and ACC...not really the PAC12. My experience may be different than yours but I just don't hear SEC fans talking a lot of trash about the PAC12...maybe it's because they just don't care about them, I don't know.

  • CougarOnTheProwl Murray, UT
    May 18, 2014 8:26 p.m.

    Not concerned about it, BYU was never gonna be affiliated with the ACC or SEC when it comes to power conferences anyway. BYU will still be able to schedule teams from a variety of conferences and they have the deal with ESPN which gets them about 8 games a year on National TV. Tom Holmoe has a great working relationship with both the BIG 12 and PAC 12 so I expect to see the Cougars continue to schedule games with teams from those conferences well into the future. In the near future it wouldn't surprise me if BYU gets an agreement where they can schedule 4 to 5 games a year against the PAC 12 or BIG 12 as part of a football only deal. Either way BYU is going to be fine and there is no reason to panic.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 18, 2014 10:00 p.m.

    Darren Rowe
    Heber City, UT
    BYU is still more attractive to play than a good chunk of power 5 teams.

    I know ute fans will criticize me for saying BYU is a better scheduling option than utah, but think about it.

    If you visit Provo, you play in front of 64,000 on the ESPN Networks. Good exposure/money, and the visiting team gets part of that money.

    In Salt Lake, you play in front of 45,000 on the Pac-12 Network. Less money, less exposure, and they add less to your strength of schedule.

    Think I'm the only one who thinks this way? Ask Texas, Notre Dame, USC, Wisconsin, and a lot more power 5 schools who either already have come to Provo or will in the future.

    Either utah isn't man enough to add more power teams, or power teams don't want to play in Salt Lake.

    ____________

    Utah at home could end up on the PAC 12 Network, ESPN or Fox.

    With the new football landscape. Be prepared for more schools to back out of contracts with BYU. We have already seen this happen.

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    May 19, 2014 9:45 a.m.

    Personally, the big 5 is ridiculous. Sad to see all of the Ute fans excited to see BYU snubbed. We felt equally snubbed by beating Alabama, going undefeated, and yet not winning the national championship. The best school should be allowed to play for the national title. Granted, most of these will come from the big 5, but teams like BYU should have a chance. Having said that, I think that this will be the demise of BYU football unless a big 5 lets BYU in. Recruits won't play for a team that doesn't have a shot at a national title. Fans won't support a mid-major with no hope. This is sad news. Maybe duckhunter with his connections can help pull BYU out of this mess.

    Go UTES!!

  • SEC Rules Seminole, FL
    May 19, 2014 12:32 p.m.

    I think BYU, the Mountain West, AAC and others should for their own league. The Big 5, "so called" already have a league of their own per se. Let the Big 5 have their "Champion", and the other league have theirs. Then on or about January 6th, have the two champions play each other for the national Title.

    Settle it on the grid iron. And lets put a stop to all this elitist, entitlement talk.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    May 19, 2014 2:39 p.m.

    Paul Revere
    American Fork, UT

    the ADs of the PAC 10 did want BYU because of their competitiveness and economic value. BYU fills LES and the Marriott Center and BYU is a great draw putting a lot of fans in the seats.

    ---------

    Oh yeah, now that makes sense. BYU makes too much money and is too good on the field. Those are surefire reasons to get you snubbed from a power conference.

    Ha ha ha. As Vet said, how frantic and emotional.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 19, 2014 3:00 p.m.

    TR:
    I know it puts a dent in your little fantasy that no one wants BYU but what Paul Revere said about the ADs of the PAC12 and BYU is actually true. Do you not find it odd that PAC ADs have nothing but good to say about BYU athletics and continue to schedule BYU for home and homes and neutral site games if they didn't like them? What you're not grasping is that it was up to the presidents and BODs as far as admission to the conference went. They wanted tier 1 research status which Utah has and BYU doesn't. I think what U and other ute fans can't digest is that athletically the ADs of the PAC12 probably saw BYU as equal to, if not superior to utah, but their hands were tied because academically/research Utah was superior...the rest is history. Nothing frantic and emotional about it. ADs of the PAC wouldn't be scheduling BYU as often as they are if they disliked them.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 19, 2014 3:57 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs
    West Point , UT

    "ADs of the PAC wouldn't be scheduling BYU as often as they are if they disliked them."

    So, Cougsndawgs, let me ask you something...

    You acknowledge that the Pac-10 "wanted tier 1 research status which Utah has and BYU doesn't...but their hands were tied because academically/research Utah was superior." In your opinion, was it appropriate/justifiable for D Harmon and scores of byu fans since, to label the Pac-10 presidents and chancellors and hence the Pac-12 conference, bigots? Why, or why not?

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    May 19, 2014 4:35 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs "what U and other ute fans can't digest is that athletically the ADs of the PAC12 probably saw BYU as equal to, if not superior to utah"

    That must explain why BYU football is on a 4 game winning streak against Utah and consistently gets more players drafted in to the NFL.... oh wait, scratch that

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 19, 2014 6:59 p.m.

    MyPerspective:
    "In your opinion, was it appropriate/justifiable for D Harmon and scores of byu fans since, to label the Pac-10 presidents and chancellors and hence the Pac-12 conference, bigots?"

    That's certainly a fair question. I can only answer for myself of course, but I've never labeled the PAC12 bigots. I recognized in the beginning that research/AAU status were big deals and requirements for PAC12 membership and therefore never expected BYU to be a member. The PAC12 isn't alone in these research requirements, as you will find them in the B1G, ACC, and to a lesser extent the SEC (another reason I feel the Big 12 is BYUs only hope). So what I was saying is that given the research requirements it didn't matter how the athletic depts in the PAC12 felt about BYU. Their hands were tied by the research requirements of the presidents and BODs.

    U90:
    Weak argument. In June 2010 when Utah was invited, BYU had beaten Utah 3 out of 4 years. I don't think they took the rivalry in consideration when viewing the respective programs...if they did that certainly wouldn't have hurt BYU at the time.

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    May 19, 2014 10:28 p.m.

    Very little concern. Look at BYU's 2019 home football schedule already agreed to: Wisconsin, USC, Boise State, Nevada, and maybe Utah. Notre Dame has a game in Provo coming up in the near future as well, per their AD.

    No worries here. Go Cougs!

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    May 19, 2014 10:50 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs,

    The weakest argument on this thread is: "athletically the ADs of the PAC12 probably saw BYU as equal to, if not superior to utah".

    Where do you come up with this stuff, and how exactly can you support that claim.... head-to-head NFL draft results? Or did the PAC12 ADs reveal it to you in your weekly conversations with them? The more athletic team doesn't lose 9 of 12, nor do more athletic teams lose 10-54.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 19, 2014 11:57 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs
    West Point , UT

    Thanks. I've been fairly critical (perhaps even unfairly critical to some extent) of your posts on this issue but you have been consistent with respect to the research qualifications Utah brings to Pac-12.

    The other stuff...religion, etc. is pure conjecture and should be referred to as such (or not mentioned at all) since the Pac-10 had no such stated criteria. Not getting what we want often results in the blame game (D. Harmon) pointing at everyone but ourselves.

    Again, thanks.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 20, 2014 12:39 a.m.

    @ Cougar_Independence

    2 (maybe 3) P5 teams isn't going to cut it. Also, that season is 6, (SIX!), years away. That's a long time to be looking forward to a few good teams on the schedule who might not even be playing in LES.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    May 20, 2014 1:30 a.m.

    1982@ekute and perspective...

    I know that you are basically "shoot from the hip" beer and pretzel guys and are not into doing much if any homework on topics before passionately sharing your wealth of knowledge and opinions with the masses... But perhaps you should break that self-imposed rule once and read up on what you're talking about...

    Start by reading in the FBS site under comments on the Frank Kelly article on the very topic that I raised... There is a very knowledgeable person by the name of "Le Deaux, TWAA 1982" who gives a very good Legal Synopsis of what I am talking about as it relates to Anti-Trust and how it pertains to College Football... Then, if you really want extra credit, read the summary on the Burciaga-SCOTUS Ruling (OU & UGA VS NCAA & ABC Sports)... I think then you will realize that the whole P5 thing could be in big jeopardy particularly with Conferences such as the SEC and the ACC making decisions that are obviously not based on the quality of a given College Football Program....

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    May 20, 2014 1:32 a.m.

    In addition to Anti-Trust Problems, I believe Conferences like the SEC and ACC could have title VII problems... But hey, just my opinion.

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    May 20, 2014 8:56 a.m.

    BYU will ALWAYS be relevant!

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    May 20, 2014 9:03 a.m.

    Too bad everyone can't stop obsessing over some "mythical" national championship. BYU has much bigger fish to fry than most other "elite" programs. Everyone please relax and read a
    good book.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 20, 2014 3:40 p.m.

    U90:
    BYU has more teams and more ranked teams in athletics than Utah (look it up). Again, is it a weak argument for me to assume that PAC12 athletic depts & ADs can read this when they look it up as well? Yeah, I didn't think so either. When I said "athletically" I was referring to the athletics departments of the respective schools, not athleticism on the field...maybe that's where things were lost in translation?

    MP:
    Most of the time I can be honest about BYU and Utah. There are times when I allow the likes of Chris to get under my skin but I'm trying to minimize those occurrences. Lol

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 20, 2014 4:25 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs
    West Point , UT

    "Most of the time I can be honest about BYU and Utah. There are times when I allow the likes of Chris to get under my skin but I'm trying to minimize those occurrences. Lol"

    I like your posts, always have but they do sting at times. You have a way getting at the most salient points through fact and relevant observation.

    It's easy to get carried away with this stuff. In the final analysis though, it's all non-value added entertainment. Lol!

  • CBAX Provo, UT
    May 20, 2014 6:24 p.m.

    Here is the solution. The solution is to WIN. If you can win. It will work out.

    If BYU had beaten ND and WISC... and Utah, and everyone else last year, people would notice.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 20, 2014 10:17 p.m.

    MP:
    Same to ya...I enjoy your posts also and yes, your truth stings at times too. Thank heaven it IS all entertainment and our lives don't depend on it! Lol.

    In the end if BYU folds I still have my UGA Dawgs to cheer for, so I'm not too worried about all of it. Sure has all the natives riled though!

    Cheers!

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    May 21, 2014 12:44 p.m.

    As byu quickly moves towards division II status will continue to be here laughing at byu and their fans the entire way there.

    The future of football in Utah, is Utah. And Utah only.

    byu and usu will be among the best division II Programs(if byu decides to keep the program at all)

    And once again, I'll be here to proudly fly the Pac 12 Utah flag over the byu fans all day every day as their program crumbles to nothing!

    GO UTES

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 22, 2014 12:26 p.m.

    Darren Rowe,

    Sorry to burst your bubble about BYU's better exposure and better stadium, but RES has the reputation as being one of the top places to play in the Pac 12. Also, several of BYU's games last season were broadcast on ESPNU which is in the same number of homes as the Pac 12 network and has lower viewership than the Pac 12 Network. Also, a game at RES could be televised on Fox or ESPN as several have been under the Pac 12 TV deal. So it isn't true that playing BYU in Provo automatically gives you better atmosphere or better exposure.

  • UT4Big12 HOUSTON, TX
    June 21, 2014 12:25 p.m.

    Nothing against BYU, but BYU's chances of ever landing a spot in the Big 12 are now slim to none. If the conference ever sees a need to expand, it will most likely look at schools on the east coast.

    For now the conference has no interest in expanding, not even to include BYU after a passionate plea from Bronco Mendenhall for inclusion.

    Sorry Cougar fans, but these are the bleak circumstance you are now facing.