Very concerned!The ACC just told you you are a mid-major and deserve
to be treated like all other mid majors.The SEC thinks you are a
mid-major and should be treated as all mid-majorsWe will never
invite byu to the Pac 12 for many reasons, one of which is mid-major quality
football program.The Big 12 extended byu the lifeline of a lifetime
and what did byu tell the big 12?"Treat us like Texas because we
are like Texas"Bridge burned!I guess the Big 10 or
NFL could always invite byu?
"If Pac-12 teams stop scheduling the Cougars, then it’s time to panic.
With games against Utah, Cal, USC, Arizona, Washington State, Arizona State and
Stanford all on future schedules, the Cougars don’t have anything to worry
about there."Sorry to burst your WAC bubble, but 2-3 games a
year against power conference teams will NEVER get a team into the playoffs.ONLY a power conference schedule with 8-9 games against power conference
teams will get a team into the playoffs.byu's best bet of
getting to the playoffs is setting up their own playoffs with the other
mid-majors. Because power conferences are becoming the new division
I and mid-majors are essentially becoming division II.And I love it!
Sure, recognition as a Power school would have been great but this really does
little to change BYU's future. BYU will continue to schedule tough
opponents from a range of conferences and will continue to thrive. Now, if ESPN
decides to not continue an arrangement with BYU we should start worrying.
If Holmoe was honest he'd admit he messed up byu's one and only chance
at football relevance by byu's arrogance in dealings with the Big 12.Sunday issue was NOT the issue - the big 12 knows byu will never play on
sundays, so they wouldn't have been engaged in talks unless the Big 12 was
ok working around that.But instead byu turned up their nose and
instead of asking how they could help the stability of the big 12, told the Big
12 they deserved texas-like concesssions.And quickly yet another
bridge was burned. The last bridge byu had to being a part of the future of
college football.There are power conference teams. And there are
mid-majors.And the divide between the two is larger than ever, with
no paths between the two on the horizon.byu fans wont admit it, but
I truly don't see an avenue for byu getting in with the big boy."Quest for relevance" is OVER!
How concerned?Well, the ACC, SEC, Big 12, and Pac 12 have all
essentially told byu they view them just as they view Wyoming, UNVL, and New
Mexico State.You tell me.
The truth is that unless you are in a B5 conference, the cards will be stacked
against you. Even if BYU were in a B5 conference, there is no way that they
would win enough games to make themselves relevant.Just keep doing
what Mr. Holmoe has stated numerous times - "schedule for a bowl game."
In other words, find the worst teams imaginable to schedule to make sure you get
to 6 wins. Then go to a meaningless bowl game.Cougar fan loves that
Well done - this article is spin at its very finest. The author should write
press releases for the Iraqi Army because this is the sports equivalent of
"American blood is flowing down the streets of New York" while there are
U.S. tanks visible in the background.The SEC also said no to BYU
(conveniently omitted from the article). With 2 of the 5 already saying no, it
pretty much guarantees the rest will say no as well, including the PAC12 which
BYU needs in order to survive (irony at its finest).There is a de
facto division-within-a-division emerging in college football and BYU is very
much on the wrong side of the fence.
I'm amazed that I'm the only BYU fan commenting so far. The Ute fans
seem insistent on keeping spinning their position better than it is.BYU will be fine in all this.
Power Conferences = New Division 1mid majors = New Division IIDivision I will have our own playoffsDivision II can do
whatever they want, we don't care. But you wont be part of our
playoffs.byu is in real jeopardy of permanently separating from the
big boys, with no hope of return.If I was Holmoe, I'd be
calling the Big 12 and tell them byu is willing to PAY to join the league.Either that or start talking with the other mid-majors about where the
division II Playoffs will be held.
LOL... this is worse than Nazi propaganda.But if you say things are
great enough times...mabye they'll believe
If BYU wants to be considered an elite team, they cannot lose to teams like
Virginia. Winning strengthens the brand. BYU already has a lot of the
intangibles, international fan base, ESPN contract etc.. They just need to win
those big games.
We have to win. Right now we deserve the way we are being treated. If we were
performing like an elite team, the press would go to town on these conferences
for excluding us. No one will go to bat for us because there isn't a good
argument. Beat a few good teams every year and whip the rest and
the media will start screaming about the injustice of our exclusion. For now, we've earned ignominy. Let's uplevel our performance in
recruiting, coaching, and on the field.
If the ACC and SEC refuse to schedule BYU, but must play the Big 5, they will be
filling slots on those other conference schedules that BYU would ordinarily have
a shot at. It also reveals an inherent bias against BYU. BYU IS on the outside
looking in. Unless the landscape changes (perfect season and/or the B12 comes
calling), BYU football is going to go into a decline. The ESPN contract will not
last forever. Bronco, your team has to win. Or BYU football (and by
extension BYU athletics) will go in the direction of BYU-Idaho and BYU-Hawaii.
If the cougars would have taken care of business against ACC doormat Virginia
last year, the vote may have been different. But I would hate to be Virginia in
Provo this fall. They will feel the Coogs wrath: 55-7.
Thanks Cecil Samuelson. Your work here is done. Enjoy your view of the carnage
from your Crimson Club sofa.
As a avid BYU fan it kills me to agree with Darth Vader Chris B but the PAC 12
will follow suit soon. Tom Holmoe = Bagdad Bob ) and he is doing the TEXAS
TWO STEP hold your breath Cougar Fans.
@Chris B"The Big 12 extended byu the lifeline of a lifetime and
what did byu tell the big 12?"Treat us like Texas because we are
like Texas""Did you just admit that a power conference
wanted BYU? Wow!BTW I do agree with you BYU should have humbly
accepted the offer and reliquished their TV rights etc. I am still upset about
Big 12 Call Yet?,How do you know what went on in the conversations
between Holmoe & the Big 12? Were you present?
BYU has just been relegated to the kiddie table. If one more conference of the
P5 refuses to recognize BYU as a P5 equal the others will be forced to do the
same--and when that happens BYU football will be finished. Independence has
failed miserably ESPN contract aside the decline is already started and will
just snowball from here.
BYU fans can take comfort in the certainty that if the "power"
conferences really do succeed in self-segregating into some kind of
"Super" football Division I, thereby relegating everyone else into a de
facto Division II, Congress ~will~ intervene. What happens at that point is
anyone's guess, but the elitists will have asked for it.
Pushing the Panic Button is optional. There is a way out of this mess:The five power conferences will still have some teams to add and BYU can be
one of them. I believe the "No Sunday Play" rule can be accommodated.
Maintaining Television rights will not be accommodated. That is the central
issue that needs to be resolved. If BYU holds out, they will be left out. I
think its that simple.
Chris B: Who is we? Has the PAC 12 now hired you as one of their executives?
Where is your documentation that the BIG 12 offered BYU to become a member of
their conference? I have never seen or heard of that. There was talk in the
media, but you must know how the media works - they exist by selling news and
much of what they sell is made up. Please let us know of your sources if you
want your posts to be credible. Just because you say it doesn't mean it is
so. Thank you for being such a great BYU fan. I hope you are as great a fan
for your beloved Utah - oh, I should say your beloved PAC 12.
Wow, nothing but BYU haters loving the fact that BYU is struggling with
conference issues. Thats just sad. I do however agree that Tom Holmoe messed up
by not graciously accepting whatever offer the Big12 offered. Now our chances of
being invited to any power conference are slim. Stories like this one are only
the beginning. Too early to panic? might as well get an early start to panicing,
because the future of college football isnt looking to good. Sad day for the
I still liked the idea of what the Big East tried to do, by having an eastern
division and a western division. Perhaps BYU could team up with the better teams
of that league, along with some big name teams and the top teams of the MWC, and
form a new league, and sponsor a bowl game to go along with it. Teams such as
Houston, Army, BSU, Utah State, and BYU would form a nucleus for the new league.
I think it might work. However, for now, indy is probably better, until we see
what happens with the 5 power conferences.
Utah should be worried too. You saw what happened with smu, houston, rice and
tcu. Only tcu was welcome back who once was SWC. U keep on losing to those pacs
then they may tell you take the EXIT. Mark That Down!
1978,I think that yes byu had it within the reach to make a deal
with the big 12, but instead of humility byu showed arrogance.And if
the arrogance was warranted, like in the case of Texas, it would be somewhat
understandable. But to show that arrogance when there is no reason(i.e. your
program isn't nearly as powerful or respected as you think it is) was
crazy.And thus we see why everyone has the opinion they do of byu.
Its not a sunday thing.And make note byu "had" the chance to
make a deal with the big 12.What do you think the big 12 thinks of
byu now that they showed this arrogance?Think the big 12 will be
calling back ever again?Ya right, keep dreaming. They'd rather
not have a title game even though they want one rather than invite byu.That's how low they think of byu after byu's attitude.
14 of the 19 comments so far, have been from Utah, and no doubt, are from Ute
fan/haters. But BYU is so much more than some podunk statewide/regional college.
It is a very powerful and well respected University, not only in the US, but
around the world! If you yokels think that this organization, powered from on
high, is going to roll over, dry up and blow away with the wind, you are very
much mistaken, as well as very short-sighted. Mark my words! The
lord always snatches victory from the jaws defeat, and this issue will be just
one more testament to that fact. I also feel that the change in
missionary age will have an even greater impact on BYU sports. Fewer guys will
start, stop, serve and then try to start again. They can now get out and serve,
and still come back in time to fully participate in their favorite program. I
look forward to the progress that this new policy will produce. And you should
be too...unless your team is just a statewide/Utah team. (Ask ESPN. They know
what I'm talking about! Worldwide Baby! Worldwide!)
What's wrong with going back to the WAC and playing for a conference
championship? As a famous football coach once said "We're not who we
think we are. Playoffs? What Playoffs?"
BYU is still more attractive to play than a good chunk of power 5 teams.I know ute fans will criticize me for saying BYU is a better scheduling
option than utah, but think about it.If you visit Provo, you play in
front of 64,000 on the ESPN Networks. Good exposure/money, and the visiting team
gets part of that money. Also, BYU ALWAYS finishes higher than utah in the
overall rankings. Is that fair? Maybe not, but that's simply how it's
been. We strengthen other team's schedules more than utah.In
Salt Lake, you play in front of 45,000 on the Pac-12 Network. Less money, less
exposure, and they add less to your strength of schedule.Think
I'm the only one who thinks this way? Ask Texas, Notre Dame, USC,
Wisconsin, and a lot more power 5 schools who either already have come to Provo
or will in the future.I know utah only has 3 slots, but only
Michigan has been willing to come. Other than that, it's Idaho St, Fresno
St, Utah St, etc.Either utah isn't man enough to add more power
teams, or power teams don't want to play in Salt Lake.
If BYU wants to be relevant, they should have focused on winning more key
matchups 10 years ago a la Boise State, Utah and TCU. If you want to be taken
seriously and have a case for playing with the big boys, you've got to win,
win, win. BYU's been resting on past wins from 20 years ago. That said, I'm pretty tired of all the little Ute fans posting here. Max
Hall was right!!
Wow. Nothing shouts insecurity like having 9 of the first 11 posts coming from
fans of a school that supposedly "moved on." It is obvious which school
in Utah has "mid-major" fans... maybe it's because their teams
can't win any games. Are BYU fans concerned as this article
suggests? I think most of us feel the same way about BYU and its future as we
did last week. The future is uncertain which stinks, but independence is still
a step up from MWC.
How concerned should they be?Well, do they want to be a division I
program and play a meaningful season or do they want to be like Wyoming and the
other essentially division II teams?
When people such as Chris B make statements about what Holmoe said to the Big 12
is maddening. You have no facts and can't back up what you are stating as
facts. State it as an opinion because you don't really know. Thank
I think Tom and Bronco care but there isn't much they can do. BYU is headed
for the sellar in NCAA athletics or at least total mediocrity and although I
don't foresee the terminating of the football program I do see a slide down
to some insignificant level where they can compete. Gone are the days of
attracting and producing All-American QB's and being able to beat anybody
in the country on a given Saturday. I suspect the NCAA is only going to increase
it's sunday play as well which means the Y is even more on the outside
looking in. It was fun while it lasted.
Worried not at all. We have out drafted Utah in the NFL two years in a row. We
have standford lined up and ND happening in the future. Those so call power conf
will want to play BYU for a number of reason, time on ESPN, selling of seats,
and BYU is a good match for most years. Recuits are line up for BYU, which BYU
just beat Utah this year, and we are able to watch our games on ESPN. I see
nothing to worry about. The big power conf are just pulling this because they
are getting worried with the play off system coming and more then likely
expanding into 8 if not 16 teams and they will not have the pull they once did
with recuits or money. It will show how weak they really are. For Utah
please just win some games and stop embressing the state. If people look down on
BYU it is because they see Utah is doing so badly and can only beat BYU.
BYU fans should really let this decision sink in and really take it to heart. It
is reality, big smack of reality, and it looks to only get worse. Things are not
going well in the land of being an Independent. The status is clearly spelled
out, BYU is NOT considered as a program on the first tier level of college
football. Winning 8-10 games a year and playing in a pre-arranged pre-Christmas
Day bowl game is not glorious. Arguing with the world (and with PAC-12 Ute fans)
on how great things are in Provo is not the truth. BYU is a mid-major team and
an invitation to join is not going to happen. This message was sent loud and
clear. There is not a way to justify otherwise. Facts are the facts, and
pretending that everything is fine and superior is just living in make believe
land. Take ownership of the second tier status and try to excel at that level.
There are teams and programs that rank higher than BYU even at the second tier.
So it should be some good competition to try to rise up and battle with the mid
major schools, good luck!
54-10"The truth is that unless you are in a B5 conference, the cards
will be stacked against you. Even if BYU were in a B5 conference, there is no
way that they would win enough games to make themselves relevant."Utah PAC 12 south record4-5 20113-6 20122-7 2013Looks
like your statement is correct...for more teams than just BYU. Although in
Utah's case,it is proven. In Byu's, still theoretical.
Portlander,Do you really think the Lord cares about BYU football?
He has bigger and more important things on his mind.
FT,The WAC doesn't play football anymore.
Darren Rowe,Last season Utah had one of the five toughest schedules
in the country. That fact by itself elevated the SOS for every team we played
including BYU. The same will be true this year with 4 or 5 teams on our
schedule already ranked in some of the 'way to early' rankings. So we
do a lot for a team's SOS. Also, you must have not been paying attention
to the Pac 12 TV deal. It includes ESPN and Fox and all of our games last year
got better coverage than several of BYU's games that were sent to ESPNU
which gets into fewer homes nationwide than the Pac 12 Network. I'm not
worried about Utah's future scheduling and the fact there aren't any
writers fretting about it while there have been a flood of articles this week
fretting about BYU's scheduling should tell you something.
Mormon Ute"Last season Utah had one of the five toughest
schedules in the country. That fact by itself elevated the SOS for every team we
played including BYU."Not true.Utah's ranking,
NOT Utah's SOS, is what determines whether the SOS for teams playing Utah
is enhanced.Do you really think that playing the 120th ranked team
would enhance your schedule, just because that team played the toughest SOS in
Behind closed doors the SEC and ACC purposely schemed to leave BYU off the big 5
schedule. Why agree to BYU as big 5 when half of the teams in the ACC and SEC
BYU can beat. it looks embarrassing to them. The teams from both conferences
still need to schedule 4 games so lets see how many times those games are taken
up with the bottom half big 5 teams and teams like Idaho, Wyoming, etc.They use
no Sunday play as a reason not to admit BYU to a conference. That is religious
discrimination. BYU on the other hand needs to step up to the plate and beat
some ranked teams consistently. Can't loose to the team up north and
Virginia. I am proud of BYU and what it stands for. Go cougars!
If you are a serious fan and want to get an expert writer's opinion, go
look at the comments from ESPN writer Kyle Bonagura on the May 16th PAC 12
football blog. He responds to a readers question with, what I would consider an
accurate comment. He basically says if BYU wants to be considered on a plane
with Notre Dame they need to improve their schedule. The Y has averaged 5 games
against Power Conference teams in the past few years, has 3 on the schedule this
year, and only 2 for next year. If you schedule a bunch of mid majors, you
program is viewed as a mid major.
Come on BYU, you lost to Virginia and Utah. How in the world do you ever expect
to be taken seriously? If you can't beat the dregs of the football world
then how could you ever hope to compete against real football teams?
BYU and it's sports programs are certainly part of the Lord's plan,
and so, the answer is "yes", He is concerned over the football program.
He's especially concerned over the players and how the program fits with
mission of the Church, as well as how it fits within the overall plan of
salvation! Now, I am not saying that He's "rooting" for
the Cougs...He loves all of His children and wants all of them to succeed! But
what the question has been is whether the program will succeed or whether it is
doomed to failure. And I am maintaining that no program of the Lord's is
doomed to failure. It may not measure up to "worldly" standards, but
only the "worldly" care about that anyway! The rest of us, just enjoy
that BYU is as good as it is and we celebrate the success in the achievements of
the members of it's teams!So take it easy! It's only a
game after all!
I just have to jump in and say one thing to Chris and his cronies. How in the
world do you know how BYU approached the Big 12 or how they approached BYU? Fact
is you, like the rest of us, have no idea. What I do know is that BOTH the Big
12 and BYU came out with statements after their discussions of mutual respect
for one another...NEITHER side said boo about BYU being arrogant or asking for
"Texas like treatment". Look I'm fine if you want insist on
trolling everything BYU, but stop making stuff up just to help you feel
better...you're a poor representative of most Utah fans that I know as
honest and classy people.That said, BYU needs to sit down with all
negotiations, except Sunday play, on the table. BYU and Cincy have good
fanbases, are winning programs that reside in modest sized TV markets. They only
pay BYU and Cincy whatever they increase the tv revenue. Big 12 gets CCG which
actually increases current teams income, and Big 12 avoids the pressure that is
surely coming to have equal structure to the rest of the P5 conferences. Get it
Not many comments from BYU fans here.... But holy cow, the Utah fans love to
comment on articles about BYU.
The article points out that "[t]he Cougars have played just four ACC and SEC
teams since the Cougars went independent." Yet, for some reason, Holmoe
feels compelled to approach the SEC and the ACC and ask them to consider
byu-provo one the elite so that he can get preferred treatment on their
schedule. Have I got that right? If this is all about finding
somebody teams to play, why doesn't Holmoe realize that even with every
team in the P5 conferences playing only 3 games outside of those conferences he
has an opportunity to schedule 142 (count'em 142) games with P5 teams every
single year? Where are they on his schedule? This isn't about
scheduling games at all, is it Tom. This is about you (Holmoe) pulling another
Utah St stunt to get the ACC and the SEC to recognize byu-provo as a P5 caliber
program so you can weasel your way into the elite. Look at it this way, Tom,
the SEC and ACC are only doing what is best for them. Too bad it slams the door
on byu-provo. Oh, well, what goes around...
@ Big 12 Call Yet?Were you present in the discussions with the Big
12? Were you actually there? Do you know what happened? Please share your
first hand knowledge of the situation, who you spoke with, etc.
Lots of AAC teams want to schedule us! We're quasi-aligned with the AAC
now! Wow, what a terrifying article.Look, I don't want to be
perceived as allied w/mid-Major conferences or teams. I want in with the power
conferences. That's why we built a 65,000 seat stadium 30 years ago, to
become part of big-time college football!I'm sick of not having
any chance at the national championship for over 20 years now. It really
hasn't been good. And it doesn't look too good going forward.
Anti-trust legal action may be our only recourse, and I don't see us going
Reading many of these comments one might think that the main purpose of a
university is to field a football team. So what if BYU is on the outside looking
in? And it's hardly the end of the world should the best football players
who might have come to BYU opt to go elsewhere. I think the bigger issue is the
apparent need for some BYU fans to have a legitimate, respected, winning
football team. Get past yourselves and support whatever team BYU puts out there.
Can't win the national championship? Oh well. Life will go on.
@ Darren RoweUtah finished higher than BYU in the rankings as
recently as last year. So no, BYU does not ALWAYS finish higher than Utah in
the rankings. Also, Pitt, Oregon, Cal, Oregon St., North Carolina, UCLA, Texas
A&M, Louisville, and Arizona have all been non-conference opponents that
have visited RES in the past decade. Not to mention, if you play at Utah it
doesn't look as bad if you lose because they are a P5 team. See: Stanford
last year. If you play and lose to BYU, your season takes a huge hit because
the Cougars are a mid-major. See: Texas, who immediately started to clean house
after the BYU game.
@ blue & whiteConferences not allowing BYU due to Sunday play is
NOT religious discrimination. BYU chooses not to play on Sunday, which is
perfectly fine. But in doing so, they also don't meet the requirements to
be a member of that said conference.It's like applying for a
job. If the job requires you to work on Sunday, but you refuse to do so due to
your religion, they are going to hire somebody who will. It's not
discrimination. It's business. And it's legal.
BigPowertrain "Not having any chance at the national championship for over
20 years. Anti-trust legal action may be our only recourse".BYU has
the opportunity to play for the national championship if they earn it. They
choose NOT to earn it.Look at Florida State's schedule. Now
look at BYU's. Look at Auburn's schedule. Now look at BYU's.
See the difference? Florida State and Auburn earned their way to the National
Championship. You can't sue your way into the game.
The power conferences have decided that BYU does not have the talent nor the
tradition to get a seat at the big boy's table. It's the correct
decision.BYU is not welcome back in the MWC either...
@Chris B Having lived in SEC country I can tell you that they look at the PAC 12
as a mid major conference. So for them to not recognize BYU as a member of the
Power 5 group is really no big deal. Having friends who are Alabama fans they
have very little respect for members of conferences other then the SEC and the
Big 12. Even after the Utah victory over Bama in the Sugar Bowl several years
ago they still had very little regard for Utah and looked at that victory as a
fluke. As for the ACC's snub this makes little sense in light of the fact
that BYU has trashed Georgia Tech and Syracuse and played great games with
Boston College. You and your Ute friends need to see the big picture and realize
that even in the PAC 12 you will need to go undefeated and hope that two SEC
teams have more then one loss a piece other wise you will not play play for a
national title any more then BYU. The SEC will always put a one loss team in the
Championship over an undefeated or one loss PAC 12 school, just ask USC.
It would be really nice to have someone show proof that the Big 12 even OFFERED
BYU the chance to join the conference. All this talk about how Tom handled the
situation, and yet I can't find an article saying that there was ever an
offer. I do find that BYU was heavily recruited by the former Big East, yet BYU
refused to share their ESPN contract and shut the door on the Big East. If they
did that with the Big East, it's safe to say that is what is holding them
back from joining another conference.
This snub sets a VERY dangerous future precedent. The Athletic programs in
Provo could very easily go the dierection simiar programs in Rexburg and Hawaii
IMO football is entertainment, not life. Lots of speculation in these comments
is based upon emotion and unknowns. If BYU sports or any college team's
sports is the highlight and be all, end all of a person's life - how
shallow.Football is fun or should be to play and to watch. Have a
good time, shout, sing and cheer, then go home and continue with life.College athletics should not be farm teams for the professional leagues. In
that light, I really don't care what league the "Y" joins, if they
do join a league. I would hope those on the field represent the
university's ideals and goals. I have some empathy for Utah,
alternate choice to fill out a league vacancy, most likely to be voted PAC-12
Miss Congeniality but that's about it. Both schools will not compete
successfully for enough top tier athletes to make a national championship team.
That's life, deal with it.This whole discussion is such a First
BYU is in a serious pickle.P5 teams will not want to schedule them
if it's a likely loss, because losing to a non-P5 school will be like
losing to a FCS/1-AA school is now. But they're not viewed as
P5 material because they don't play enough P5 schools.This is a
classic Catch-22.If the Big-10 follows suit - which seems likely, as
the P5 schools start to separate into a higher tier - this will only add urgency
to BYU getting into the Big-12 at whatever cost. If the Big-12 decides to not
add football-only schools, and Sunday play is a TV issue for non-football
sports, BYU is toast.
If you sort through all the issues, it seems BYU's best chance long term is
to join the Big-12.One issue for BYU may be the limited TV market in
Utah. In other words, is the Utah TV market large enough to support two P5
"franchises"? Denver is evidently big enough to only support one, but
has over twice as many TV viewers.As Utah has learned (the hard
way), scheduling P5 teams nine times a year will put a dent in your Win-Loss
record.Over the course of 10-20 years, if BYU and Utah are both
stuck in the middle of their respective conferences, will there be enough
interest to sustain the TV market in Utah at high levels? I don't think
you can just assume it will.
BYU has to win the games they have on their slate and continue crafting strong
schedules with the upper tier teams from around the nation. While casual fans
balk at having MTS, USU, Houston or UCF on the schedule, these are teams that
have been at or near the top of their leagues recently and are worth way more
than beating a team that doesn't make bowls. Besides the Cougars will
still get scheduling agreements with teams from the SEC or ACC about as often as
they have had in the past.2014's slate looks to be very strong
and probably a top 40 schedule if not higher. In the event that the Cougars win
out, a couple of their opponents win their leagues and the bad teams on the
schedule win more BYU will make the playoffs. Cougars are in a fine place.
Cougsndawgs"That said, BYU needs to sit down with all
negotiations, except Sunday play, on the table." You make it
sound as though all byu has to do is say the right things and presto, byu is
part of the elite. What is it with you people? Clearly, the ACC and SEC
don't believe that byu is entitled to anything. Maybe byu should should
take on the arduous task earning their way to the table. It will be a tough
slog with no shortcuts but it is far more "honorable" than asking (and
Jefe-Ute:I agree there appears to be no tangible evidence of an
offer from the Big-12 to BYU, implying those who castigate Tom Holmoe and the
BYU Administration may be off target.But it's is known that BYU
was in discussions with the Big-12, who were evidently having discussions with
other schools, too. Evidently, TCU went from having informal discussions to
being formally invited very, very quickly, maybe even 24 hours.My
sense is the issue that really prevented a similar "fast-track
invitation" for BYU was Sunday play. If this is true, BYU fans need to just
let it go, it was never meant to be. The Big-12 may or may not be interested in
inviting a football-only school, but that's BYU's only serious chance
of getting in the P5 club.
These Ute fans are soooo concerned and reading every article about BYU sports.
You have to love their obsession with the Cougars. Just like everyone in Utah,
there is only one program of interest and it is BYU football, basketball,
men's volleyball, rugby all of it, all the time go Cougs. The Utes have
to stay home each year and think about how great all those losses were and their
strength of schedule was, again. Tripped up Stanford and BYU last year?
Sorry, you lost to Wash, ASU, USC, UCLA, OSU, AZ, ORE, and even Wazzou! Nice
to be in a power 5 conference with a sub-mid major talent level. Your future
is so dim you have to spend all your time reading about BYU. I love that. We
all do that. Cougs had a bad year, sure (8-5). But we played a bowl game, had
fan interest, all our games on ESPN or DirecTV, beat Texas (better than almost
all the PAC12 teams) and had an embarrassing loss to WA in a bowl game, WA, a
school we beat with Riley Nelson/Jake Heaps a few years ago. But, you will
play on Sunday! Nice! keep at it.
Paul Revere:"Having lived in SEC country I can tell you that
they look at the PAC 12 as a mid major conference."Nope. I too
had once lived in SEC country (as well as ACC, BigTen, SWC, and Big 8
countries), and they most certainly do NOT think of the Pac-12 (nor the ACC,
BigTen, or Big 12 for that matter) as a midmajor conference. You made that up.
How frantic and emotional of you.
Much ado about nothing. Whether or not BYU is not on ACC and SEC list does not
mean they won't be scheduled. Remember, this is not a "DON'T PLAY
BYUI" list. Will the conferences be able to forbid an ESPN prime time game
with BYU?Nah.Money talks.Besides, if SOS counts,
BYU will be good enough to register. SOS is not based on your conference, it is
about your record this year. You beat tough teams, you bring up your
opponent's SOS. Say BYU beats an Oregon and a Texas, Utah, Boise, and Utah
State along with a couple of fillers. Is that SOS weaker than UCLA who loses to
USC and Oregon and beats Utah, WSC, Colorado, Oregon State, and Cal? No. BYU
would rank higher.That schedule, if BYU wins out, would likely get
them ranked top 10. Without playing a single SEC or ACC team.Just
win, and all will be well. If not? Well, they'll still be playing football
like they've been doing for 100 years.Besides, my bet is that
the playoffs will expand to eight teams. Soon.
RE: Mormon UteI don't know how you inferred from
Portlander's post that the Lord does or does not care about BYU football
(he didn't), but since you asked... I think he does. I expect He has a
personality and hobbies just like the rest of us and I can't think of a
better diversion than BYU football. Obviously from your posts we can deduce that
you feel the same way. It's great to be a fan of the most popular sports
program in Utah. Go Cougs!
Epilogue to my last post. To all you U Fans who like to say that BYU was not
invited to join the PAC 12 was due to the perception that BYU is viewed as a mid
major school. I am not able to say for sure why BYU was not invited, but my
father who coached FOOTBALL in the PAC 10, gave me the follow reasons:1. BYU is
a faith based institution and the Presidents of the PAC 10 did not want this
type of school as they believe it is restrictive of thought and free speech., 2.
BYU's primary goal is to provide its' students with the best possible
undergraduate education-see the Engineering, Marriott School of Business,
Animation programs etc as they are among the best in the nation. Finally you all
should know the ADs of the PAC 10 did want BYU because of their competitiveness
and economic value. BYU fills LES and the Marriott Center and BYU is a great
draw putting a lot of fans in the seats. Good luck to the U at getting into the
new playoff format I think you have as much chance as BYU.
10CCBountiful, UT"If you sort through all the issues, it
seems BYU's best chance long term is to join the Big-12...Over the course
of 10-20 years, if BYU and Utah are both stuck in the middle of their respective
conferences, will there be enough interest to sustain the TV market in Utah at
high levels? I don't think you can just assume it will."I
don't think you can assume that byu will have a conference to be in the
middle of. How do you people talk yourselves into believing that the Big-12
will come calling at any minute? For 30 years I listened to byu fans talk like
their invitation to the Pac-12 was immanent and look what that got you.
It's always more fun to see it in writing, though.
@Two For FlinchingYou must have been looking at Chris B's
official rankings or something, becasue utah did not finish ranked higher than
BYU last year, or any year that you have been Pac-12 and we have been
independent.And when I talked about teams who were willing to come
to Rice-Eccles, I was referring to the last 3 years, when they have been a
Pac-12 member, and any future schedules they have lined up. I did not mention
Florida State, Arizona, or UCLA who came to Provo when we were MWC members,
because I was focusing on 2011 and beyond. That was my mistake though, I should
have clarified that better.Your comparison of Stanford to Texas is
flawed. Texas finished 8-4 in the regular season and was tied for 2nd in the Big
12, and they were 4th after tiebreakers. Stanford, on the other hand, was 11-2
before their bowl game and they were Pac-12 champions. The BYU loss isn't
what kept Texas from a BCS game. They simply weren't quite good enough
anyway. Stanford was.
I see this less as a diss on BYU in particular, but a perhaps shortsighted
decision by Holmoe to pursue a "BYU exemption" without banding with
equally deserving schools such as Central Florida, Cincinnati, and Boise State.
As the ACC commish, the question as posed, "Let BYU in, without making
exemptions for these other conferences?" is easily answered "No, that
would make no sense."What those teams really need to do is force
the B5 to explain why they have effectively squeezed out the better mid-majors
instead eliminating the much easier FCS (D-IAA) teams that are on almost
everyone's schedule. Sure, it will be embarrassing for Virginia Tech,
Michigan, Florida, and Oregon State to dredge up memories of losses to those
teams, but it's the right strategy.
So now you're relevant if you don't go to bowl games OR have a winning
record for years?? Just because you're a member of a conference? Tell us
again how many NC's Kansas has in football?
I am an avid BYU fan. The answer to this is and has been simple for quite a
while - win more games and win the big ones regularly, not every once in a
while. Start winning big games regularly and other teams will recognize us as a
power team.On another note, it is remarkable to see how many people
there are who feel insecure or threatened until they have bashed the Cougars.
Ha, ha, I have to laugh at all the doomsayers comments. There are a fistful of
top teams that set the table for everyone else. Don't delude yourselves
thinking member in a so-called 5 power conferences makes you one of the top
teams. If my recollection serves me correctly there are 2 teams from each
conference (excluding the Big 12) that playoff each year to see who sits atop
the pecking order. And hard as I try, I can't remember but a few teams
that are there year after year. How does irrevelance in a Power Conference
Steven S JarvisOrem, UT"While casual fans balk at having
MTS, USU, Houston or UCF on the schedule, these are teams that have been at or
near the top of their leagues recently and are worth way more than beating a
team that doesn't make bowls."Apparently the SEC and ACC
doesn't agree with your view. Are you paying attention to what is
happening here?Ken LeePasadena, CA"Just like
everyone in Utah, there is only one program of interest and it is BYU football,
basketball, men's volleyball, rugby all of it, all the time go Cougs. The
Utes have to stay home each year and think about how great all those losses were
and their strength of schedule was, again. Tripped up Stanford and BYU last
year? Sorry, you lost to Wash, ASU, USC, UCLA, OSU, AZ, ORE, and even Wazzou!
Nice to be in a power 5 conference with a sub-mid major talent level."This is precisely the kind of thinking that has landed byu in the pickle
they are in today. This is precisely the kind of priceless thinking that caused
this train wreck.
It seems humorous to me that all the Utah "fans" a.k.a. BYU haters think
BYU would not do well if included in a P5 conference. How do you know? Can you
see into the future? I think there is a feeling out there that you play to the
level of your competition. If your team, BYU or Utah for example, is playing a
team such as Stanford, Oregon, Alabama, etc., they may play better than if they
were playing teams such as Idaho St., New Mexico, Duke, etc. The team may not
win all of those "prestigious" games and they may even get blown out.
But the level of play would probably be on a lot higher level than playing a so
called mid-major team. So back to my question, despite BYU's lack of
playing and beating P5 teams recently, nobody can say how BYU would do if
included in a P5 conference. And by the way, Utah "fans" don't
have much room to talk. Their team hasn't beaten very many P5 conference
teams recently either. Things may get better, but as of right now, Utah is a
power team in name only.
"How does irrevelance in a Power Conference really feel?"It
feels like the Utes are in an exclusive club where the members band together,
respect each other and disdain outsiders.
Paul RevereAmerican Fork, UT"To all you U Fans who like to
say that BYU was not invited to join the PAC 12 was due to the perception that
BYU is viewed as a mid major school. I am not able to say for sure why BYU was
not invited..." Then you should leave it right there and not not pursue
further. Your first reason is contrived wishful thinking that paints
byu as a victim. Your second reason, if true, is what the Pac-12 is all about
and therefore makes no sense. Although I will say that the Pac-12 is equally
interested in graduate level academics. byu, not so much. Regardless, the
Pac-10 presidents and chancellors were very clear about what they looked for
when they expanded and the University of Utah was a perfect fit. Please note, it is not "us U Fans who like to say that byu was not invited
because..." it is you byu fans who won't (or can't) accept
byu's failures. You have only yourselves to blame. For decades, byu has
been about sports, sports, and sports. Ooops!
Seems to me it's a reasonable possibility that the SEC, etc did not want to
include BYU because they knew there's a reasonable chance BYU could win.
Can't pass up Notre Dame because of the money they'd (the non-Notre
Dame school) receive, even if they lose, but BYU might be considered too much of
a threat and what losing to BYU might mean. Anyone who follows college football
knows that a bad game (like against Virginia) happens now and then. Remember
when Michigan lost to a Division II school 4 or 5 yrs ago? Sometimes weird
things like that just happen.(And, no, I'm not suggesting that
BYU is on the level of Michigan, or that Virginia is like a Division II school,
I'm just saying that sometimes "better" teams lose to
"lower" teams.)On a different note, sure is interesting how
many Ute fans are on here telling us BYU fans just how bad we are. I mean if
we're really "bad", wouldn't it be self-evident? I agree with
what Margaret Thatcher once said: "If you have to tell people you're a
lady, you're not."Go Cougars!
Darren RoweUtah DID finish higher than BYU football last season in
the Sagarin rankings (#36 to #35 if I remember right).
You've got to love uninformed statements like this one from
MyPerspective:"For decades, byu has been about sports, sports,
and sports. Ooops!"Obviously he/she doesn't know that BYU
is #1 in the nation for graduate school placement and top 5 (among ALL colleges
and universities, including liberal arts colleges) for medical school placement,
law school placement, and business school placement. As an
undergraduate/teaching focused institution BYU has a legitimate argument for
being a better preparatory school than the likes of Harvard, Stanford, and MIT.
That AND they have an amazing sports program, music program, animation program,
Frank Arnold said,:" You are always hated when your good." About every
place that BYU plays at have their highest attendance of the year. Look at how
Utah used to be. That's the only time they could get a sell out. I think
BYU will be alright. ESPN see's the numbers, and any Athletic Director
knows he will get a bunch of Mormons coming to the game.... who know maybe he
will make less money on beer ?????
@Navy Vet, I am sorry but you are dead wrong or you do not know any die hard SEC
fans, or football coaches in the SEC. As the son of a football coach who
coached in the old PAC 8 and then the Southwest Conference and traveled and
lived in SEC territory they most certainly think of the PAC 12 as "lesser
football". One die hard Bama friend once remarked just last year that the
University of Oregon played sissy ball. The only football program I have heard
them compliment is USC, and when they do it is often in a back handed manner. As
a U fan you need to open your eyes and see where pure power football is played,
and according to my friends and father's associates they do not believe
that the PAC 12 is power football. Furthermore the U's chances of getting
into the playoffs are currently no better then BYU. Anyone from the PAC 12 will
still have to be undefeated or at best one loss. Given the U's recent
history I don't see that happening anytime soon.
BleedCougarBlue "Seems to me it's a reasonable possibility that the
SEC, etc did not want to include BYU because they knew there's a reasonable
chance BYU could win."Except that the SEC did not pass on BYU. They
simply said, if they play it doesn't count as the major non-conf opponent
that they now must schedule. BYU is not hurt by this (other than pride). When
a school wants to make a championship run, they'll beef up their mid-major
SOS by scheduling BYU.
Linsk:"About every place that BYU plays at have their highest
attendance of the year."That's a myth. The only place the
Y played at last year that had their "highest attendance of the year" --
per ESPN -- was Utah State....where Romney Stadium drew 25,513 fans.But of course, so did Boise St. and Weber St, so the Y only tied for top-draw
with those 2 other schools, and only in one game of the 2013 season.
This just isn't about Football, this is about Revenue and interstate
commerce and very illegal in my opinion and I say that from two perspectives...
I say it from the State Schools that are left out and discriminated against such
as New Mexico, Wyoming, or even North Dakota... Exclusion from a potential
opportunity to win the National Championship puts states against states (as
States benefit from success in their respective schools)... And, if the Power 5
conferences have the ability to deny other state's opportunities (which
this clearly does) then these conferences could be successfully sued and
required to cease and desist planning and organizing this exclusionary
program...Aside from all of that, BYU could be joined by schools
such as Boise State, UCF, etc., and their actual stats compared over the years
to determine if an unjust practice is being illegally employed by these
conferences for excluding teams with a history of greater success which has
anti-trust written all over it.I boldly predict that the decisions
from the ACC and the SEC will be rejected and reversed... And I believe that
will happen sooner rather than later.
As I read many of the fairer minded ute fans comments I find myself having to
objectively agree with some of them.. BYU has messed up in not taking care of
business against lesser competition from power conferences and in not being more
enthused about joining the Big 12 when the opportunity presented itself...
It's hard for me to imagine that BYU's past performance doesn't
justify Power 5 inclusion... But it's even harder when you hear fans of
lesser recognized institutions with poor performances year after year (such as
Utah) want to tell us how we should act in order to get that invite that we so
badly want... We would much rather hear it from fans of higher quality teams in
the leagues such as UCLA, Washington, ASU as opposed to perennial losers such at
Utah, Colorado, etc.
WiscougarfanRiver Falls, WI"You've got to love
uninformed statements like this one from MyPerspective:"For
decades, byu has been about sports, sports, and sports. Ooops!"Obviously he/she doesn't know that BYU is #1 in the nation for graduate
school placement and top 5 (among ALL colleges and universities, including
liberal arts colleges) for medical school placement, law school placement, and
business school placement." Precisely the point, graduate
school "placement." byu can't meet the graduate level desires /
needs of its own undergrad students who must go elsewhere. It (byu) certainly
doesn't fit in the Pac-12. But, hey, those on campus athletic facilities
sure are nice. Even a baseball field. Wow! byu is getting exactly
what it has worked so hard for...nothing.
poymanLincoln City, OR"It's hard for me to imagine
that BYU's past performance doesn't justify Power 5 inclusion... But
it's even harder when you hear fans of lesser recognized institutions with
poor performances year after year (such as Utah) want to tell us how we should
act in order to get that invite that we so badly want..."Well,
poyman, at least you admit that independence is a joke. That's a huge step
for you. With respect to your desire of being lectured by UCLA, Washington, ASU
fans instead of Utah fans...don't hold your breath because that lecture
isn't coming any time soon. Athletically, byu is an abysmal failure when
facing what you call "perennial loser" Utes on the field and is well
below the bar in what the Pac-12 wants and therefore merits no consideration.
Your best case scenario is to be lectured by Baylor, Iowa St, and Kansas. You're an attorney so please take a moment to explain to this board
how the P5 separating themselves from the rest is any different than the current
separation between the FBS and FCS.
poyman,"Revenue and interstate commerce and very
illegal"...That's just desperately grasping at straws. "We would much rather hear it from fans of higher quality teams in the
leagues"Nobody in the Power conferences cares about byU, especially
not the "higher quality teams" and the "lesser recognized
institutions with poor performances year after year (such as Utah)" own byU.
byU did nothing in the BCS era. BS, Fresno, Houston and Nevada would be more
deserving. Even USU with how they played vs "higher quality teams" might
get more consideration.
Paul Revere:The SEC looks at everyone as "lesser football". They
look at the ACC as a weakling more so than the PAC12. However that is the SEC
fans, players, and some coaches perception, not the conference's perception
and certainly not always reality. As an SEC fan who travels to the south, I
think the conferences SEC fans make fun of most are the B1G and ACC...not really
the PAC12. My experience may be different than yours but I just don't hear
SEC fans talking a lot of trash about the PAC12...maybe it's because they
just don't care about them, I don't know.
Not concerned about it, BYU was never gonna be affiliated with the ACC or SEC
when it comes to power conferences anyway. BYU will still be able to schedule
teams from a variety of conferences and they have the deal with ESPN which gets
them about 8 games a year on National TV. Tom Holmoe has a great working
relationship with both the BIG 12 and PAC 12 so I expect to see the Cougars
continue to schedule games with teams from those conferences well into the
future. In the near future it wouldn't surprise me if BYU gets an agreement
where they can schedule 4 to 5 games a year against the PAC 12 or BIG 12 as part
of a football only deal. Either way BYU is going to be fine and there is no
reason to panic.
Darren RoweHeber City, UTBYU is still more attractive to play than a
good chunk of power 5 teams.I know ute fans will criticize me for
saying BYU is a better scheduling option than utah, but think about it.If you visit Provo, you play in front of 64,000 on the ESPN Networks. Good
exposure/money, and the visiting team gets part of that money. In
Salt Lake, you play in front of 45,000 on the Pac-12 Network. Less money, less
exposure, and they add less to your strength of schedule.Think
I'm the only one who thinks this way? Ask Texas, Notre Dame, USC,
Wisconsin, and a lot more power 5 schools who either already have come to Provo
or will in the future.Either utah isn't man enough to add more
power teams, or power teams don't want to play in Salt Lake.____________Utah at home could end up on the PAC 12 Network, ESPN
or Fox. With the new football landscape. Be prepared for more
schools to back out of contracts with BYU. We have already seen this happen.
Personally, the big 5 is ridiculous. Sad to see all of the Ute fans excited to
see BYU snubbed. We felt equally snubbed by beating Alabama, going undefeated,
and yet not winning the national championship. The best school should be
allowed to play for the national title. Granted, most of these will come from
the big 5, but teams like BYU should have a chance. Having said that, I think
that this will be the demise of BYU football unless a big 5 lets BYU in.
Recruits won't play for a team that doesn't have a shot at a national
title. Fans won't support a mid-major with no hope. This is sad news.
Maybe duckhunter with his connections can help pull BYU out of this mess.Go UTES!!
I think BYU, the Mountain West, AAC and others should for their own league. The
Big 5, "so called" already have a league of their own per se. Let the
Big 5 have their "Champion", and the other league have theirs. Then on
or about January 6th, have the two champions play each other for the national
Title. Settle it on the grid iron. And lets put a stop to all this
elitist, entitlement talk.
Paul RevereAmerican Fork, UTthe ADs of the PAC 10 did want BYU
because of their competitiveness and economic value. BYU fills LES and the
Marriott Center and BYU is a great draw putting a lot of fans in the seats.---------Oh yeah, now that makes sense. BYU makes too much
money and is too good on the field. Those are surefire reasons to get you
snubbed from a power conference.Ha ha ha. As Vet said, how frantic
TR:I know it puts a dent in your little fantasy that no one wants BYU but
what Paul Revere said about the ADs of the PAC12 and BYU is actually true. Do
you not find it odd that PAC ADs have nothing but good to say about BYU
athletics and continue to schedule BYU for home and homes and neutral site games
if they didn't like them? What you're not grasping is that it was up
to the presidents and BODs as far as admission to the conference went. They
wanted tier 1 research status which Utah has and BYU doesn't. I think what
U and other ute fans can't digest is that athletically the ADs of the PAC12
probably saw BYU as equal to, if not superior to utah, but their hands were tied
because academically/research Utah was superior...the rest is history. Nothing
frantic and emotional about it. ADs of the PAC wouldn't be scheduling BYU
as often as they are if they disliked them.
CougsndawgsWest Point , UT"ADs of the PAC wouldn't be
scheduling BYU as often as they are if they disliked them."So,
Cougsndawgs, let me ask you something...You acknowledge that the
Pac-10 "wanted tier 1 research status which Utah has and BYU
doesn't...but their hands were tied because academically/research Utah was
superior." In your opinion, was it appropriate/justifiable for D Harmon and
scores of byu fans since, to label the Pac-10 presidents and chancellors and
hence the Pac-12 conference, bigots? Why, or why not?
@Cougsndawgs "what U and other ute fans can't digest is that
athletically the ADs of the PAC12 probably saw BYU as equal to, if not superior
to utah"That must explain why BYU football is on a 4 game
winning streak against Utah and consistently gets more players drafted in to the
NFL.... oh wait, scratch that
MyPerspective:"In your opinion, was it appropriate/justifiable for D
Harmon and scores of byu fans since, to label the Pac-10 presidents and
chancellors and hence the Pac-12 conference, bigots?"That's
certainly a fair question. I can only answer for myself of course, but I've
never labeled the PAC12 bigots. I recognized in the beginning that research/AAU
status were big deals and requirements for PAC12 membership and therefore never
expected BYU to be a member. The PAC12 isn't alone in these research
requirements, as you will find them in the B1G, ACC, and to a lesser extent the
SEC (another reason I feel the Big 12 is BYUs only hope). So what I was saying
is that given the research requirements it didn't matter how the athletic
depts in the PAC12 felt about BYU. Their hands were tied by the research
requirements of the presidents and BODs.U90:Weak argument. In
June 2010 when Utah was invited, BYU had beaten Utah 3 out of 4 years. I
don't think they took the rivalry in consideration when viewing the
respective programs...if they did that certainly wouldn't have hurt BYU at
Very little concern. Look at BYU's 2019 home football schedule already
agreed to: Wisconsin, USC, Boise State, Nevada, and maybe Utah. Notre Dame has
a game in Provo coming up in the near future as well, per their AD. No worries here. Go Cougs!
Cougsndawgs,The weakest argument on this thread is:
"athletically the ADs of the PAC12 probably saw BYU as equal to, if not
superior to utah".Where do you come up with this stuff, and how
exactly can you support that claim.... head-to-head NFL draft results? Or did
the PAC12 ADs reveal it to you in your weekly conversations with them? The more
athletic team doesn't lose 9 of 12, nor do more athletic teams lose 10-54.
CougsndawgsWest Point , UTThanks. I've been fairly
critical (perhaps even unfairly critical to some extent) of your posts on this
issue but you have been consistent with respect to the research qualifications
Utah brings to Pac-12. The other stuff...religion, etc. is pure
conjecture and should be referred to as such (or not mentioned at all) since the
Pac-10 had no such stated criteria. Not getting what we want often results in
the blame game (D. Harmon) pointing at everyone but ourselves. Again, thanks.
@ Cougar_Independence2 (maybe 3) P5 teams isn't going to cut
it. Also, that season is 6, (SIX!), years away. That's a long time to be
looking forward to a few good teams on the schedule who might not even be
playing in LES.
1982@ekute and perspective...I know that you are basically
"shoot from the hip" beer and pretzel guys and are not into doing much
if any homework on topics before passionately sharing your wealth of knowledge
and opinions with the masses... But perhaps you should break that self-imposed
rule once and read up on what you're talking about...Start by
reading in the FBS site under comments on the Frank Kelly article on the very
topic that I raised... There is a very knowledgeable person by the name of
"Le Deaux, TWAA 1982" who gives a very good Legal Synopsis of what I am
talking about as it relates to Anti-Trust and how it pertains to College
Football... Then, if you really want extra credit, read the summary on the
Burciaga-SCOTUS Ruling (OU & UGA VS NCAA & ABC Sports)... I think then
you will realize that the whole P5 thing could be in big jeopardy particularly
with Conferences such as the SEC and the ACC making decisions that are obviously
not based on the quality of a given College Football Program....
In addition to Anti-Trust Problems, I believe Conferences like the SEC and ACC
could have title VII problems... But hey, just my opinion.
BYU will ALWAYS be relevant!
Too bad everyone can't stop obsessing over some "mythical" national
championship. BYU has much bigger fish to fry than most other "elite"
programs. Everyone please relax and read agood book.
U90: BYU has more teams and more ranked teams in athletics than Utah (look
it up). Again, is it a weak argument for me to assume that PAC12 athletic depts
& ADs can read this when they look it up as well? Yeah, I didn't think
so either. When I said "athletically" I was referring to the athletics
departments of the respective schools, not athleticism on the field...maybe
that's where things were lost in translation?MP:Most of
the time I can be honest about BYU and Utah. There are times when I allow the
likes of Chris to get under my skin but I'm trying to minimize those
CougsndawgsWest Point , UT"Most of the time I can be
honest about BYU and Utah. There are times when I allow the likes of Chris to
get under my skin but I'm trying to minimize those occurrences. Lol"I like your posts, always have but they do sting at times. You have a
way getting at the most salient points through fact and relevant observation.
It's easy to get carried away with this stuff. In the final
analysis though, it's all non-value added entertainment. Lol!
Here is the solution. The solution is to WIN. If you can win. It will work out.
If BYU had beaten ND and WISC... and Utah, and everyone else last
year, people would notice.
MP:Same to ya...I enjoy your posts also and yes, your truth stings at
times too. Thank heaven it IS all entertainment and our lives don't depend
on it! Lol. In the end if BYU folds I still have my UGA Dawgs to
cheer for, so I'm not too worried about all of it. Sure has all the natives
riled though! Cheers!
As byu quickly moves towards division II status will continue to be here
laughing at byu and their fans the entire way there.The future of
football in Utah, is Utah. And Utah only.byu and usu will be among
the best division II Programs(if byu decides to keep the program at all)And once again, I'll be here to proudly fly the Pac 12 Utah flag
over the byu fans all day every day as their program crumbles to nothing!GO UTES
Darren Rowe,Sorry to burst your bubble about BYU's better
exposure and better stadium, but RES has the reputation as being one of the top
places to play in the Pac 12. Also, several of BYU's games last season
were broadcast on ESPNU which is in the same number of homes as the Pac 12
network and has lower viewership than the Pac 12 Network. Also, a game at RES
could be televised on Fox or ESPN as several have been under the Pac 12 TV deal.
So it isn't true that playing BYU in Provo automatically gives you better
atmosphere or better exposure.
Nothing against BYU, but BYU's chances of ever landing a spot in the Big 12
are now slim to none. If the conference ever sees a need to expand, it will
most likely look at schools on the east coast. For now the
conference has no interest in expanding, not even to include BYU after a
passionate plea from Bronco Mendenhall for inclusion.Sorry Cougar
fans, but these are the bleak circumstance you are now facing.