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In our opinion: Progress from conservatives, state officials, Obama administration bodes well for immigration reform

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  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2014 2:05 a.m.

    Be not deceived. This is not about the well-being of you, me, and the country. Rather it is about cheap labor and enhanced North American church membership recruitment opportunities.

    Greed and weakness of faith are causing various parties in this state to compromise basic principles of right and wrong.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    May 15, 2014 3:00 a.m.

    McLaughlin & Associates is a polling company that guarantees their results will support a company or organizations stand on a specific issue. With billions of dollars at stake they are not going to arrive at a position that discredits the person paying for the poll.

    This is another push to allow business to replace our STEM graduates with foreign citizens. We already produce 3 STEM graduates for every new job opening each year.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    May 15, 2014 6:45 a.m.

    From what I have seen, this article is misleading.

    Yes, given the right set of circumstances, I think that you could get 70+ % of Tea Partyers to favor immigration reform.

    But, lets look at Marco Rubio's plan. This plan was overwhelmingly rejected by the Tea Party.

    1) submit biometric data in order to pass multiple national security and criminal background checks
    2) Pay $2,000 in fines, pay taxes, and learn English and American civics.
    3) Wait at least 10 years and get in line behind those working through the immigration system.
    4) Wait until we have a system in place to prevent illegal immigrants from being hired.
    5) Wait until we have a system in place to track people who overstay their visas.
    6) Wait until we implement plans to spend at least $5.5 billion dollars to secure the border

    The Tea Party basically abandoned Rubio because of this immigration plan.

    Can you imagine what would have to be in a plan that they would support?

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    May 15, 2014 7:27 a.m.

    JoeBlow

    Marco Rubios plan looks reasonable. What I wonder Joe is do you think the Democrats would support it, because I don't. I haven't heard from them yet on his plan, have you? If they would support it, then I think the vast majority of Republicans would see Marcos plan as a reasonable.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    May 15, 2014 8:21 a.m.

    Happy,

    Do I think the Dems would support it? Probably not.

    But then, we are now in such a partisan environment, that the chance of either party supporting anything the other side proposes is slim.

    Also, I dont think Rubios plan is really serious.

    All of the "waits" in there are insuring that NOTHING is done for years and years if ever.

    Seriously, what plan could ever "prevent illegal immigrants from being hired."

    And this "Wait at least 10 years and get in line behind those working through the immigration system." What do they do in those 10 years? Are they allowed to stay? Realistically, how long are we looking at. 20 years? 30 years?

    Because, at the end of the day, politicians would much rather TALK a good immigration strategy, than actually implement one.

    And that goes for the GOP as well.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    May 15, 2014 8:37 a.m.

    @JoeBlow

    If that is the Senate bill, your facts are incorrect. It contained language that allows any administration to stop the enforcement provisions. And gave waivers whenever they wanted to.

    It never reimbursed those with stolen ids, or social security numbers for their costs to get their identity back. And the money paid went to a training program for citizenship. It also would have allowed 30 million to come here in ten years, the population of Canada. It also doubled legal immigration and tripled work visas. according to the Congressional budget office it would increase unemployment and decrease wages for decades. The bill was toxic to America, and he ended up backing away from it.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    May 15, 2014 8:51 a.m.

    "If that is the Senate bill, your facts are incorrect"

    I never said it was the Senate Bill. I said it was Rubios plan.

    And my facts could very well be wrong. They came from foxnews.

    Google Rubio foxnews truth about my plan.

  • Star Bright Salt Lake City, Ut
    May 15, 2014 9:01 a.m.

    And you believed the president? Wow, after all the things that have been said?
    I have some swamp land..........

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 15, 2014 9:21 a.m.

    What the Democrats (and the Chamber of Commerce) want is nothing but amnesty, pure and simple, and the goal (at least for the Democrats) is to make all the illegals into voters before the 2016 elections. They, and their accomplices in the media will convince Latinos that the evil Republicans hate Hispanics and that the Democrats are their friends and saviors and thereby "ensure they will vote Democrat for 1200 years."

    Sadly, capitulation on immigration "reform" by passing amnesty will seal the destruction of the rule of law as the foundation of our country, and accelerate our death spiral into pandering class warfare to perpetuate power by Democrats.

    I doubt is amnesty can be stopped at this point. The Republicans lack the guts to even try any more.

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    May 15, 2014 9:33 a.m.

    "Bodes well"? What you fail to report is the fact that this administration (without any complaint by you) released 36,000 criminals who were in this country illegally. Where's the compassion?

    This is all about power and you know it, but think the rest of us can be duped by your phony calls for compassion and keeping families together, disregarding the future of this country, let alone the rule of law.

    This is about one-party rule for the Democratic Party. This is about gaining congregants for churches. This is about cheap labor for businesses. That's it. These three main groups have personal agendas behind their push for amnesty. There's money and power to be gained by them. And none of the three groups cares at all if you lose your job or if this nation falls apart.

    "Bodes well"? It depends on what you hope to gain.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2014 9:43 a.m.

    A "polling" organization WILL return any results you want - as long as you pay them enough money. Notice that the article doesn't dare get into specifics of HOW the polling was done.

    Take the challenge - do you own "polling", count the number of comments here and on other sites that are AGAINST amnesty in any form. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that their polling is biased.

    ANYBODY can say they represent the Tea Party, or the Republican Party, or the Democratic Party - that doesn't make it so.

    This article simply points out the extent to which the cheap labor lobby will go to deceive the public. To them, this works MUCH cheaper than actually paying a fair wage.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    May 15, 2014 9:54 a.m.

    Progress?

    There will be no progress on anything...

    other than progress the Republicans and the Republican Political Machine achieve...

    taking down the Obama Administration...

    as well as taking down any person who dares to run against the Republican Political Machine.

    To verify...

    source the Louis Powell Memo, action plans emanating from the Koch Republican Think Tanks (HF, AEI, CATO etc.) daily talking points memos directing Republican News Network and affiliates as well as Republican Political Machine emissaries Boehner and McConnell.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    May 15, 2014 10:13 a.m.

    JoeBlow

    To prevent illegals from being hired would not be that difficult. A real geen card with biometrics, photo, fingerprint, bar codes and other non-counterfeitable measures. Require employers to verify before hiring. I used to work at a company in California that had many illegals. To get documents they went to McArthur Park near downtown L.A. and paid for phoney green card, SSN card, driver license, ect. The employer did not question the documents and was glad to have the "cheap" labor. Fine and or jail employers found to be hiring illegals and watch the influx of illegals dry up. However, we both know that the Republicans and Democrats see money and votes in not really wanting to create a system to stop illegals, so in the end nothing but talk ever happens. And if something does happen it likely will be more amnesty, no increased border enforcement, as was the case in 1986.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    May 15, 2014 10:18 a.m.

    In the opinion of this conservative Republican, who supported the Citizens United Decision, there is only one reason that Republicans are even talking immigration reform. That reason is the Citizens United Decision.

    Big business wants amnesty so they can hire very cheap labor legally. I would not be surprised to find that these businesses went to the Republican leadership and told them: "If you pass immigration reform we will contribute millions to your party. If we don't we will give it to the Democrats."

    Blackmail.

    It is obvious that a key strategy for Democrats is to stuff the ballot box with illegal votes from illegal aliens. Legalizing millions of future Democrat voters who are only here because they want free government money is committing treason against all things conservative. It is political suicide for anyone interested in a government that actually obeys the constitution. These people will never vote for anyone who supports the constitution.

    If this happens, freedom will have zero success of becoming the norm before the second coming.

  • ordinaryfolks seattle, WA
    May 15, 2014 10:57 a.m.

    Seems to me, and obvious from the posts so far, that there is zero tolerance for any immigration reform that might pass the US Congress and Senate, then signed by the President.

    The bogeyman of the illegal haunts the nightmares of the conspiratorialist wacko fringe of the American public. And this tail wags the dog of the Republican party.

    Common sense has left the country, and we are now dictated to by Fox news junkies. Sad.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2014 11:02 a.m.

    @happy2behere
    "do you think the Democrats would support it, because I don't. I haven't heard from them yet on his plan, have you? If they would support it, then I think the vast majority of Republicans would see Marcos plan as a reasonable."

    Republicans would be more likely to support Rubio's plan if Democrats got behind it? Usually Democratic support is treated as a sign for Republicans to jump off of something these last few years.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    May 15, 2014 11:05 a.m.

    JoeBlow,
    You left out one major component of the rejected plan – citizenship. Why does citizenship even enter in? Why does it have to be included in any plan? Those conditions all sound good to me, but NOT if they lead to citizenship. Legal residency, OK, but NOT citizenship.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2014 11:08 a.m.

    @The Rock
    "It is obvious that a key strategy for Democrats is to stuff the ballot box with illegal votes from illegal aliens."

    Except there's no evidence of that. Now, if you were merely arguing that they see electoral benefits in providing citizenship to a bunch of undocumented immigrants, yeah that's totally a legit observation.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    May 15, 2014 11:39 a.m.

    Frozen Fractals

    Well, what I think would happen is that Rubios plan would be seen as too involved for illegals to do, and the Democrats would not support it. The 10 year wait, the get in line at the end, the background check and biometric data, the fines, ect. would likely be seen by Democrats as asking too much of illegals and would be vetoed by Reid in the Senate. Reid does that by not bringing it up for a vote at all as he does with everything he does not like. If somehow it passed the Senate, President Obama would veto it. So if a Rubios bill ever got to the floor of the Senate it would likely be amended all over the place and end up not looking like the one Joe Blow listed above. And in that case, many Republicans previously supporting it would then jump ship.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    May 15, 2014 11:47 a.m.

    The GOP won't, can't lead on this or any other issue.

  • Sagacious Logan, UT
    May 15, 2014 11:56 a.m.

    MapleDon mentioned the 36,000 illegal aliens that were released by Obama last year. Here is the rest of the information from the Center of Immigration Studies that goes with it:

    There were 87,000 offenses cumulatively involved.
    9,000 had serious drug convictions.
    2,600 had aggravated assault convictions.
    1,700 had weapons charge convictions.
    400 had sexual assault convictions.
    300 had kidnapping convictions.
    200 had murder convictions.

    And yet this administration ultimately decided to let these convicted felon detainees back lose into the American public. I now have a much better idea of what Obama thinks about American rule of law. Obviously not much. Apparently, pandering to the Hispanic sector of society for their votes is much more important. This information is very disgusting and disheartening.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2014 12:08 p.m.

    What will President Clinton do in her eight years?

  • Brio Alpine, UT
    May 15, 2014 12:34 p.m.

    @ FT:

    If you follow and read about national politics with any degree of objectivity (you're obviously very liberally biased on comments today and previously), you'd then understand that Harry Reid is making it impossible for anyone of either party to "lead on this or any other issue".

    He has the Senate in a near complete shutdown. He won't even allow discussion of certain topics on the Senate floor, let alone a vote on anything at all that isn't an absolute slam dunk for his pet agenda items.
    The American public is overall in favor of the Keystone pipeline. He's afraid some Democrats might break from Obama and vote in favor of it. Therefore, he won't allow it to even be voted on in the Senate. There are multiple such political bias laced examples.

    I've been around for half a century and this is the worst I've ever seen the Senate... under either party. It's sad. There is no way anyone can realistically blame Republicans for the current lack of productivity in Congress. Maybe some blame, but most of it currently has to go elsewhere. Reid is acting like an obsessed dictator.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    May 15, 2014 12:48 p.m.

    We already passed a bill to build a border fence, with strong interior enforcement, E-verify, and more court judges and clerks, it was called the 1986 amnesty.

    We also passed a bill for a visa entry-exit system, it was in the reform of 1996.

    Passing enforcement bills is a waste of time, and America should vent their frustrations against the pro-illegal folks in November.

    Amnesty, including letting people stay here legally, will continue the de-facto amnesty and encourage more people to die in the desert, and separate families. The only way to keep families together is to stop them from coming in the first place. We must enforce our laws as a deterrent to stop future law breaking. Anyone who supports amnesty also supports breaking up families and loss of life for cheap labor.

    Adding the people won't grow the economy, increasing labor doesn't work, we need increased jobs. Like the ones opening up when people return home.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    May 15, 2014 1:03 p.m.

    You want immigration reform? Ok, fine. Just start enforcing the lousy 1986 law. It hasn't been repealed. Also secure the border with Mexico.

    Basically immigration reform is nothing more than a ploy to get more people to vote for the Democrats, who they will then ignore them when they get their support. Just like they ignore blacks. The problem is, that the leadership of the two minority groups will continue to brow beat their followers to vote for Democrats, even though Democrats have done nothing for them.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    May 15, 2014 2:31 p.m.

    FT

    My last post on this subject goes to you. You want the GOP to lead? Or not? If you do then vote Republican in the next two elections and you WILL see some amazing leadership. Right now the GOP has an all star team just waiting in the wings for power to change this country. There will be so many trying to get the Presidential nomination that it will probably start out with 10 or 12 possible candidates. Who do the Democrats have? Who are they counting on to lead them out of the Obama era? One old has been lady. Beyond that who've they got? Laughable, but Kerry again? Gaff prone Biden? The Democrat Party is pathetic right now and with polls all showing negatives for Obama and the Democrats a huge change is likely coming and much needed. Face it. When Obama leaves office he will have left the most dangerous country any President in recent history has left. A diminished military. No respect from allies. No fear from enemies. A probable 18 trillion dollar debt. Could he be a bigger failure?

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    May 15, 2014 3:48 p.m.

    "If you do then vote Republican in the next two elections and you WILL see some amazing leadership. Right now the GOP has an all star team just waiting in the wings for power to change this country."

    Cmon Happy, Even you had to be rolling your eyes as you typed that.

    Amazing leadership? The GOP team is weak and you know it. Heck, everyone knows it. That is exactly WHY you might see 10 or 12 possible candidates.

    Concerning presidential elections, the biggest problem for the GOP right now is the GOP. In a crowded primary field they are each vying to out right each other.

    Yes, that plays well with the base and is probably necessary in order to get the nomination.
    But, it turns off the reasonable voters on the middle.

    The GOP is in a full out civil war. Until they get that figured out they will struggle.

    Yes, they have a deep bench, but they are all playing single A ball.

  • 1conservative WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    May 15, 2014 4:13 p.m.

    "lost in dc" Citizenship is the only component that democrats care about at all. They want more people to promise "free stuff" to hoping that they will vote for them.

    Democrats will never go along with any immigration reform that doesn't include citizenship.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    May 15, 2014 4:22 p.m.

    @Joe

    "...Yes, they have a deep bench, but they are all playing single A ball...".

    Perfect.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    May 15, 2014 4:25 p.m.

    @happy and @Brio
    My politics are in the middle but I realize that means I'm a screaming liberal to most DN readers. Today's GOP has abandoned Americans like myself with crazy, half baked ideas, leaders and priorities. Voting over 50 times to repeal a law that won't be is just plain stupid and a waste of time. Yes, liberals waste a lot of time and money but they come together as a party, lead and get things done. The GOP is in no condition to assume control until they get rid of the radicals destroying the party. I'm fairly confident Utah will be ridding itself of one of them in 2016 when those of us in the middle and independents vote out Senator Lee but not so sure the rest of the country will be as sucessful. One can only hope.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    May 15, 2014 8:19 p.m.

    Secure the border as best as possible.

    Institute E-Verify.

    Then, let's come up with a reasonable plan for the families here that have no criminal issues not related to their immigration status.

    Let them pay whatever fees or penalties are reasonable. Then, get them to a permanent legal status. For those who came here as children, this path should lead to citizenship. For those who came here as adults, perhaps it would not lead to citizenship but only to permanent residency.

    Let them pay whatever fees or penalties are reasonable.

    But let's get them to a legal status AND put the border into a secure status.

  • Third try screen name Mapleton, UT
    May 20, 2014 10:19 a.m.

    I get a kick out of these surveys calculated to tell the GOP what it thinks and what to do.
    How about this instead? Read the GOP platform!
    It's rather clear. It speaks of increased enforcement both at the border and in the interior.
    It speaks of mandatory use of SAVE and E-Verify. It invites local partnerships with police and sheriffs.
    Most importantly, it opposes amnesty programs because they reward law breaking.
    I don't blame people for not knowing this; GOP politicians at the highest levels trample on the platform as though it didn't exist.
    But the GOP is US, not the politicians who pander for votes and donations from business groups.
    And they use self-serving surveys to bolster their renegade behavior.