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Sarah Palin courts controversy with religiously charged statements about torture

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  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    April 28, 2014 7:45 p.m.

    On September 11, 2001, terrorists KILLED more than 2,500 Americans whose only crime is that those Americans were in America going about their normal activities. Those "terrorists" didn't do that horrific deed by themselves. They were funded by rich people in other parts of the world. They used some of our "petro" dollars to kill Americans in America.

    Save us the outrage when an American makes a fool of herself. She didn't commit an act of terrorism. If you feel outrage, focus that outrage on those who killed Americans and those who weep for the terrorists, the governments that encourage terrorism, the people in our country to apologize for the terrorists.

    One woman didn't have the sense to use sense when she spoke, but some people in this nation want to tar and feather her while they excuse those who killed Americans on American soil.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    April 28, 2014 7:50 p.m.

    What I find sad is how Palin and this kind of inflammatory rhetoric plays so well with the GOP base. Throw in a gun reference and a few lines about how Obama hates America and the crowd gets whipped into a frenzy.

    I think many parts of the conservative message are sound.

    Unfortunately, the GOP candidates have to cater to the lowest common denominator to get any traction with the base.

    Sorry, but it is an embarrassment.

  • SEY Sandy, UT
    April 28, 2014 8:10 p.m.

    Sorry, Mike. This glib comment about something sacred to so many people is not funny, cute or clever. She should not get a pass for it.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    April 28, 2014 8:32 p.m.

    Good grief Richards --
    Why are you defending Sarah Palin and deflect her outrageous comment?

    Is it to draw attention AWAY from the GOP,
    she is a spokesperson for them [and you] you know.

    Chalk another up to the Clive Bundy fan club.

  • Bendana 99352, WA
    April 28, 2014 8:35 p.m.

    So Sarah Palin and her fear mongering rhetoric is what is considered a "good christian" these days? And you wonder why your children are leaving your churches in droves? You wonder why there is a such a backlash anytime the christian label is applied? Instead of pointing your fingers at everyone else in society, how bout you clean your own house first. You're all choking on the Palin and Santorum dust.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 28, 2014 9:46 p.m.

    This is what the heirs of William F. Buckley think of conservatism now?

  • So-CalAggie Park City, Ut
    April 28, 2014 9:47 p.m.

    One of the pieces of propaganda used against the US in Afghanistan and Pakistan when recruiting young Muslims to join the Taliban and Al Qaeda is that the "supposed" war on terror is really just a modern day version of the "crusades" by the right-wing American Christians. So thank Sarah Palin for helping to making their point.

  • antodav TAMPA, FL
    April 28, 2014 10:07 p.m.

    Wow………

    Even though I voted, regrettably, for her and her running mate in 2008, I am very grateful at this moment that this woman is nowhere near the White House, and not likely to be there at any point in the foreseeable future. For a “Christian” to make a remark like this is indescribably awful and disappointing.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    April 28, 2014 10:27 p.m.

    Mike Richards, it's downright offensive that you condone Ms. Palin's words.

    Do you understand what the symbolism of baptism is for many of us? Here, let me educate you. The Savior suffered and died on the cross for all of us. After 3 days, he rose from the grave. Baptism, for many of us, is a symbol of our commitment to follow Christ. However, it's much more than a mere commitment or pledge, but a covenant.Every week we have the opportunity during our sacrament meetings to renew our covenants with The Lord.

    Palin mocking sacred covenants and breathing it in the same sentence as terrorism is extremely offensive. True, to some godless people who mock religion, they support and condone her actions. But not me. I believe that the ancient prophets and martyrs and modern-day prophets deserve far more respect than that. Our lord and savior, deserves far more respect than this failed governor of Alaska is giving.

    Please, stop mocking my religion to score political points.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    April 28, 2014 10:48 p.m.

    Re: Maverick,

    Which religion are you talking about, the one you taught when you were a missionary or the one you rant about almost daily when you tell us that you have no belief in God? You might think that I'm being overly critical but the God that I know, the God that I worship, the God who created all things, asked our Father in Heaven to forgive those who were crucifying Him. He had already been tried by those who professed with their lips a love of God, but demanded that His only Son be crucified. Not much has changed in 2,000 years. Christ still tells us that He atoned for our sins, but you and your friends demand blood because YOU'RE offended. Why not let Christ do His job? He doesn't need your approval before He chastises or forgives a brother or sister. I'm willing to let Christ do His job. I trust Him. I have total confidence that He is fully competent to judge and to redeem. Why don't you?

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    April 29, 2014 12:58 a.m.

    Mike is always invoking the Constitution to deliver little lectures on how things are supposed to operate according to the plans of the Framers. Do you think they would have something to say about punishing guilty people and not just people who may sound or look like Palin's version of "terrorists"? Torture now is OK when Cheney says so whether legal or not as long as there's a different name for it? I don't see Palin and company as either Christian OR Constitutional.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 29, 2014 5:37 a.m.

    Mike Richards…. did the Christ you worship also use those things sacred to people as punchlines to a joke at a paid event… would he use religious humor as a way of filling up his pockets?

    Disrespecting other peoples faiths, acts of terrorism by other people, does not justify poor behavior. What makes people like me - former "conservatives" - so irritated is this concept of conservative infallibility. That some how conservatives can't be called out when they do something wrong.

    I love my kids. But when they stray, I call them out on it. When I do something wrong, my wife calls me out on it. Conservatives should be willing to self correct when a line is crossed… and a line was crossed.

    What Sarah said to a conservative crowd, many of whom are just a faithful and religious as you, was offensive to some. They take baptism as a sacred act of faith and devotion. It is sacred to those who take on the convents regardless if "you" believe the person had the authority to perform the ordinance. Their faith and devotion isn't determined by the "authority" of the one performing the act.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    April 29, 2014 6:11 a.m.

    When your occupation is new making, a requirement is to make an attention getting outrageous statement every six months like Coulter.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    April 29, 2014 6:36 a.m.

    @Mike Richards;

    How many innocent men, women and children have died in the US's "war on terror"? We attacked a country that wasn't even involved. We tortured prisoners. WE DID THAT.

    I love a "good Christian" when I see one, but I haven't seen one in decades.

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    April 29, 2014 6:46 a.m.

    Is it more moral to "baptize" terrorists with waterboarding to obtain the intelligence that the CIA testified before congress was used to find bin Laden and kill him or is it more moral to "baptize" terrorists with hell fire missiles from drones like Obama just used to kill 55 people in Yemen (and many other countries) I think both are good! This phony outrage is silly from people who hate Sarah Palin, period! If Obama had used the word, liberals would have no problem at all.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    April 29, 2014 6:50 a.m.

    Palin made the comment to a particular crowd. She is betting (and is correct) that anyone who didn't care for that comment wasn't already going to vote for her, and anyone on the fence will let it slide. That is how you hedge your bets in politics.
    Really she is being called "insignificant" in the GOP so her strategy is to now rally the base of the GOP (her strong point).
    Before I am too critical of anything a politician says, I like to put it in perspective. And for the record I won't be voting for her, but it won't be because of what she said about baptizing terrorists.

  • Ralph West Jordan Taylorsville, UT
    April 29, 2014 6:55 a.m.

    Re: Mike Richards and Maverick

    I have been interested in your dialogue and quite frankly can't see that either of you are that far apart in your theological beliefs and understandings and I concur with both of you! the question that I have does the following statement made (in quotes) apply to the present POTUS. "Why not let Christ do His job? He doesn't need your approval before He chastises or forgives a brother or sister. I'm willing to let Christ do His job. I trust Him. I have total confidence that He is fully competent to judge and to redeem."

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    April 29, 2014 7:05 a.m.

    This was Palin's Bundy moment.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    April 29, 2014 7:09 a.m.

    We leftists are always at a disadvantage going up against a loose talker like Palin. We on the left try to be reasoned and theoretical in our arguments whereas Palin practices delivering one-liners like the late Spiro Agnew. This all descends from Agnew.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    April 29, 2014 7:16 a.m.

    Re: Mike Richards "If you feel outrage, focus that outrage on those who killed Americans and those who weep for the terrorists..."

    OK, fair enough. As Michael Moore makes clear in Fahrenheit 911, Saudi Arabia attacked the United States on 9/11. They were all let out of the country with protective custody by the Bush II administration. Perhaps, Mike, you could direct some of your venom there.

  • Area 52 Tooele, UT
    April 29, 2014 7:17 a.m.

    I’m a staunch conservative and a Tea Party guy. The media may portray her has a main voice for the GOP but believe me there are a lot of conservatives who wish she would just stay silent. Unfortunately, she makes us normal conservatives look extreme.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    April 29, 2014 8:03 a.m.

    @Mike Richards 10:48 p.m. April 28, 2014

    I don't recall Maverick ever saying anything that could even be construed as indicating he has no belief in God. I think you're confusing him with a different poster.

    Sarah didn't just use a lack of good sense or make a fool of herself -- her comments went a lot further than that. A use of good sense would be to strongly condemn, and separate onself from, her comments and their content. You just tried to blow them off. I would hope that you realize that, through your actions, it might appear that you're condoning her advocacy for barbarity and torture. I truly hope that is not what you are doing.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    April 29, 2014 8:47 a.m.

    “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” - Mahatma Gandhi

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    April 29, 2014 8:50 a.m.

    This was Sarah Palin's GOP moment, or was that the GOP's Sarah Pallin moment. Or was it Sarah Pallin just picking up the batoon from Cliven Bundy who picked it up from Joe the Plumber or hundreds of others that came in between. As the saying goes, Birds of a Feather. Thanks to the right wing radicals that have taken control, the GOP is the gift that keeps on giving.

  • Stalwart Sentinel San Jose, CA
    April 29, 2014 9:10 a.m.

    Mike Richards at 7:45 p.m. April 28, 2014 - Great speech but is was missing something.... perhaps you should use the word "America" more?

    Jingoistic conservatism at it's best.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 29, 2014 9:11 a.m.

    I don't know why the media and left-leaning people still feel the need to attack Sarah Palin every few weeks.... shes not running any more... the election is OVER.

    ===

    I don't think we need to defend her... just ignore her...

    The only reason she's still in the spotlight is... because the media feels the need to report what she says (mostly when she says something stupid... never if she says something ordinary).

    I know most left-leaning people think she's brainless (because that's what their rhetoric-mongers tell them)... but If I (or ANY person) were a person the media cared about... and they only reported when I said something stupid... you would probably think I'm brainless too...

    We all say stupid things from time to time (especially if you only hear when I say something controversial, and half of the people in the country are constantly TRYING to twist every thing you say into being into being even more controversial)... Can America help thinking she's totally brainless if the skits and the news coverage always paint her as a brainless woman?

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    April 29, 2014 9:16 a.m.

    Thank you sarah, for your entertainment value. You can always be counted on to say something foolish.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    April 29, 2014 9:24 a.m.

    Mr. Richards, you must be dizzy from all that spin you just made.

    There just isn't any excuse for Ms. Palin's words. Sorry. It's time for her to own them. Free agency is a wonderful gift. However, it never freed us from consequences. Have you ever been a parent Mr. Richards? If not then you'll learn this lesson eventually. Sometimes, children will use their free agency poorly. Making excuses for them is bad parenting. Please, stop making excuses for Ms. Palin.

    What church are you attending Mr. Richards? The church that I served a 2 year mission for and which I currently serve leadership positions in would never condone torture. Nor would it it applaud one of its most sacred operations to be used in connection with water boarding. In fact 4th Nephi gives us a terrific insight into the evils of an over aggressive military and torture. It eventually leads to the defeat of the Nephite nation.

    So either we are attending different churches or you're just not listening to what is being taught.

    The Lord instructed us to serve and love. He did not instruct us to torture and mock sacred covenants.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    April 29, 2014 9:40 a.m.

    2 bits
    Cottonwood Heights, UT
    I don't know why the media and left-leaning people still feel the need to attack Sarah Palin every few weeks.... shes not running any more... the election is OVER.

    ========

    I don't know -- why don't you ask the Deseret News?, they ran the article.

    And as for you and Mike Richards --
    are you going to condone or disdain Sarah Palin's "remarks".

    She has a choice.
    Walk away from the media lime-light,
    or choiose to stop selling cheap inflamitory rhetoric to sell books.

    Free Speech still comes with a price,
    that price is you pay for it when you say something stupid in front of the entire country.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    April 29, 2014 9:42 a.m.

    Mike Richards, are you saying what I think you are saying? That anyone other than an LDS priesthood holder who performs a baptism is taking the Lord's name in vain?

    Are you casting stones at other Christians who don't worship exactly as you think they should?

    Are you actually doing in your post exactly what you decry others for doing?

    Very interesting.

    Conservatism at its best.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 29, 2014 9:43 a.m.

    Eh, I'm more bothered by her lackadaisical approach to torture than I am her making a risky joke involving a demographic she belongs to.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    April 29, 2014 9:46 a.m.

    2bits.

    "The only reason she's still in the spotlight is... " Because she is a tea party rock star.

    Look. I dont hold the GOP responsible for every stupid thing a conservative says. I hold them responsible for repeatedly giving people like Palin and Ted Nugent and Rush Limbaugh a large stage.

    Palin did not say what she did because she is stupid. Nor was it a slip up. It was a calculated comment which was "received with loud cheers by those in attendance"

    She is playing to the base. And it says quite a bit about the mentality of the base.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    April 29, 2014 9:50 a.m.

    @2 bits

    I’ll take a crack at this – in 2008 a significant portion of the country almost put this woman a choked chicken bone away from the world’s largest nuclear arsenal. She was as intellectually unprepared for this role as any politician we’ve seen and displayed the highest degree of ignorance combined with confidence I’ve ever witnessed in national politics.

    But it is her particular brand of religion that sacred me the most. Palin and her fellow Assembly of God parishioners describe themselves as part of "the final generation," engaged in "spiritual warfare" to purge the earth of "demonic strongholds." Palin has spent her entire adult life immersed in this apocalyptic hysteria. Ask yourself: Is it a good idea to place the most powerful military on earth at her disposal?

    For all my concern about Bush's religious beliefs, and about his merely average grasp of world events, I have never once thought that he was an over-the-brink, Rapture-ready extremist. Palin seemed like the real McCoy.

    And this is all based on lots of in depth reading and not comedy skits or news sound bites.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    April 29, 2014 10:02 a.m.

    Palin-Bundy the 2016 conservative ticket.

    Scary thing is locally Mia Love is emulating Palin's tactics.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 29, 2014 10:46 a.m.

    VP Joe Biden makes just as many loony comments as Sarah Palin... they just don't get reported by the media.

    I think Sarah Palin COULD have been a better VP than Joe Biden. But Obama was WAY better than McCain and even she couldn't save that campaign... so we will never get to see what she would have done IF she was in the Naval Observatory instead of Joe Biden.

    But I think the media builds the public's impression of people like Palin and Biden, and it's intentional, by what they choose to report (and what they choose to NOT report)...

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 29, 2014 11:18 a.m.

    Is it the religion-angle... or the terrorism-angle... that has the left soooooo upset this morning???

    Are they really that upset that she abused the term "Baptism"? After what they've said about religion... I doubt they care that much about protecting sacred use of the term "baptism"... (really).

    Are they outraged somebody was mean or rude to terrorists??? I doubt that...

    I wonder if it's neither the baptism-angle OR the terrorist-angle that has them pretending to be outraged... is it mostly that PALIN said it.... that has them soooooo upset?

    I mean if anybody else said it.... would they be THIS upset???

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    April 29, 2014 12:35 p.m.

    Waterboarding is Torture.
    Baptism is a sacred ordinance.

    My 3 year old grandson knows the difference between Right and Wrong
    better than fully grown, holier-than-thou, Melchizedek Priesthood holders who should know better.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 29, 2014 12:46 p.m.

    @2 bits
    "Are they really that upset that she abused the term "Baptism"? "
    "Are they outraged somebody was mean or rude to terrorists??? I doubt that..."

    It's not a matter of being mean or rude to terrorists, it's a matter of joking about something many see as a war crime and being outraged at the endorsement of said war crime.

    Another thing is that believing in a separation of church and state doesn't mean that the person don't value their own religious beliefs since many of those people including myself are still Christians. I'm not as offended by that part of her remarks though because she is a Christian so I mostly just find it disturbing (for the whole torture endorsement thing) rather than insulting.

  • Lowonoil Clearfield, UT
    April 29, 2014 1:01 p.m.

    I still shudder when I think of how she nearly became the vice president of a sickly septugenarian.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 29, 2014 1:28 p.m.

    Schnee,
    You're aware that she didn't torture anybody... right?

    She made a glib comment about terrorists... but that hardly requires this amount of outrage.

    ===

    YOU may see it as a "war crime". But #1... she wasn't involved. And #2 it wasn't even a crime... much less a "war crime" when it happened. It was determined to be "legal". President Obama made it "illegal" when he became President... but 9/11/01 wasn't a crime, much less a war crime.

    ===

    I think if it doesn't physically harm the terrorist, and it saves innocent lives... and it's legal.. it's worth doing.

    Would you not approve waterboarding or any other "enhanced interrogation techniques"... if the info could prevent an elementary school shooting like the one at Sandy Hook?

    Would you just let the children die?? knowing you could prevent it IF you can get the info needed? But you won't... because you respect the terrorist's right to comfort more than those children's right to live?

    That's the kind of decision they were up against. Other attacks on innocent Americans were reportedly imminent.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    April 29, 2014 2:33 p.m.

    It's just fine for good Christians like Bush and Cheney (and Palin) to torture. It's only wrong when other religions do it.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 29, 2014 3:26 p.m.

    @2 bits
    "You're aware that she didn't torture anybody... right?"

    Never said she was. I just said she supported waterboarding.

    " And #2 it wasn't even a crime"

    I personally believe it violates the Geneva Conventions against torture that we signed onto along with some constitutional amendment (some form of cruel and unusual punishment or unreasonable search method... ) and that if somehow it weren't a crime it should be one.

    "Would you not approve waterboarding or any other "enhanced interrogation techniques"... if the info could prevent an elementary school shooting like the one at Sandy Hook?"

    McCain was tortured and the "names" he gave to the Vietcong were just Green Bay Packers players. We got more out of the Taliban guy that we gave sugar-free (he was diabetic) cookies to than we ever got from enhanced interrogation techniques.

    Hypothetically if it were guaranteed to work to prevent Sandy Hook would I support it? No, I wouldn't, at least I hope I wouldn't. If you don't stand by your values when things get difficult they aren't values, they're hobbies. (I probably got that Jon Stewart quote slightly off).

  • Homer1 MIDVALE, UT
    April 29, 2014 4:50 p.m.

    "courts controversy" ?? - really? How about she offends the very Author of the Christian principles she claims to live by. This macho, swaggery Christianity she exhibits is nothing more than the same old political ambition that has plagued mankind from the beginning and which the Good News of the gospel was trying to counter. Love your neighbor, love your enemy. period.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 29, 2014 7:32 p.m.

    "VP Joe Biden makes just as many loony comments as Sarah Palin... they just don't get reported by the media."

    Really..... 2 Bits? You missed...

    "Biden has two-gaffe Sunday in Ohio, both related to former President Clinton" FoxNews

    "14 Times Joe Biden Was So Joe Biden" Huffington Post

    "Joe Biden Invokes Questionable Use Of 'Rape' At Fundraiser" AP News

    There were a few hundred more that showed up in my first search. So either you have a very selective reading/listening/viewing list.... or selective memory is doing you no service. Try a quick search amigo.... I think you will find the media has had absolutely no problem reporting on Biden's gaffes.

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    April 30, 2014 7:12 a.m.

    Sarah Bundy, Cliven Palin are fine examples of the Conservative movement.

  • Stormwalker Cleveland , OH
    April 30, 2014 7:55 a.m.

    Sarah Palin just did what she has become so good at - got national media attention, got her name on the lips of millions, stirred up more free advertising.

    She has the political relevance of Miley Cyrus, without the actual ability to entertain.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    April 30, 2014 9:04 a.m.

    I give Sarah Palin grudging credit for not wasting podium time venturing out of her depth. Trying to say something intelligent or illuminating is something for which she has never shown an inclination. Making a big noisy splash in front of a cheering crowd is her talent and for her that may be reward enough.

  • Mister J Salt Lake City, UT
    April 30, 2014 4:16 p.m.

    re Joe Blow post #2

    “…in politics, what is real is not important. The important is what appears to be real to the gullible” – pg 339 The Cobra Frederick Forsyth

  • OneWifeOnly San Diego, CA
    May 1, 2014 4:43 p.m.

    @2bits asked:
    "Would you not approve waterboarding or any other "enhanced interrogation techniques"...if the info could prevent an elementary school shooting like the one at Sandy Hook?"

    I fail to understand why waterboarding to stop another Sandy Hook is acceptable yet stopping that same person from purchasing/owning/possessing a gun (thereby preventing another Sandy Hook without torture) is unacceptable.