All true, Adam Witt. Some will say here that paying a poverty wage
is justifiable if the employee accepts it. But that is not what the
Book of Mormon teaches: 2 Nephi 28:8 "And there shall also be
many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God -- e will
justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, TAKE THE ADVANTAGE OF ONE
BECAUSE OF HIS WORDS, DIG A PIT FOR THY NEIGHBOR; there is no harm in this; and
do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty,
God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the
kingdom of God. Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this
manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines..."The problem is
that the moral disease of GREED has an iron grip on the hearts of many Utah
Raising minimum wage raises prices and no one is stuck at minimum wage jobs with
skill and education can get more than minimum wage jobs.
The phrase "the working poor" shouldn't exist in a country as rich
as ours. Our inflation adjusted per-capita GDP is double what it was in 1968,
yet our minimum wage is 30% lower. So as the country has become twice as
wealthy, workers have gotten a smaller and smaller share.
Historically, everytime the minimum wage has been raised the economy received a
substantial bump that has benefitted all. When you have trillions sitting in
overseas accounts, CEOs that are making a thousand times more than his
employees(and 40% are failures as leaders),and you are going to tell me we
can't afford it? Please.
want more than minimum wage? Make your services worth more than minimum wage.
That simple. According to the BLS and DOL, of the 9 states and DC
with the highest unemployment rate, 8 have higher minimum wages laws. Of the 10
states with the lowest unemployment rates, only 1 has a higher minimum wage than
the federal rate. and guess what? according to the BLS, the average weekly
wage in ND with the federal minimum wage is HIGHER than in Ohio with a higher
minimum wage law.Want higher wages for the poorest of us? dump the
anti-business POTUS and his party and elect people who want the ECONOMY and
PRIVATE ENTERPRISE to succeed, not someone who thinks the one and only answer to
everything is more government intervention.
If the minimum wage gets bumped up do I then get an equal bump because I make
much more than the current minimum wage? By your standards, I should. I want a
wage that helps me to live better. Since the gubment wants that minimum wage
higher, they should mandate that my wage goes up an equal amount.The
minimum wage is nothing more than a training wage. If you don't like what
an employer pays, seek employment elsewhere. Or, upgrade your
education/vocation so you can make more. The minimum wage is a stepping stone.
If people vote with their feet, CEO's have to raise the starting pay. The
government should keep their noses out of it.
Let's flip this around Adam. What right do you have to tell someone who
wants to work for 7 dollars an hour that they aren't allowed to? Where do
you get that moral authority? Do you want to make sure no unskilled teenager
ever gets a job again and never learns any work ethic or responsibility?
Also, in an allegedly free country what right does the Government have to
dictate wages anyway? I'm kind of tired of hearing this "land of the
free" nonsense when half the country votes for people who want to control
everyone's lives from cradle to grave.
Suppose you are an employer, and you provide a job that costs you $8/hr to pay
an employee to do, but it would cost you $9/hr to run a machine to do it.If it suddenly costs you $10/hr to pay the employee, where do you think
that job will go?
Where does money come from? Does the "government" have a huge
"stash" hidden somewhere. I believe that all money is generated by the
people. If an automatic raise is given, that "raise" comes from the
pockets of you and me. It doesn't come from some "rich guy". He
already knows how to make a profit and he's not going to let someone from
Chicago who has never held a real job in his entire life tell him how to pay his
people. If that "very rich guy" from Chicago flies around the country
telling us that WE need to sacrifice while he enjoys the life of a king, those
other rich guys will just increase the price that you and I pay for
everything.The only people who "win" are the people in the
government. They won't adjust taxes just because they'll received a
"windfall" from higher wages.It's time to wake up and
demand that government index all wages increases.
lost in DC"want more than minimum wage? Make your services worth
more than minimum wage. That simple."No, it is NOT that simple.
Your statement implies that everyone gets paid just exactly what he or she
deserves -- no more nor less -- as though employer greed does not exist,
oppression of the hireling in his wages does not exist, etc. An utter
falsehood. Also utterly false is the implied cause-effect
relationship between lower minimum wage and higher actual wage. Again it
falsely convinces itself that no other factors exist, such as the simple
willingness of those ND employers to deal more justly with their neighbor than
do others.Flashback"The minimum wage is nothing more
than a training wage."So says YOU. It is a myth, a falsehood.
"The laborer is WORTHY OF HIS HIRE" -- no matter how old or young he
is."If you don't like what an employer pays, seek
employment elsewhere."You know it doesn't work that way.
Unequal bargaining power is one reason why. Lots of
rationalizations on this board for refusing to pay a man what he justly has
earned and deserves. Lots of denial of the reality of employer Greed.
lost in DC"want more than minimum wage? Make your services worth
more than minimum wage. That simple."No, it is not that simple.
It implies that everyone gets paid exactly what they deserve -- that employer
greed, and oppression of the hireling in his wages, for example, do not exist,
which is false. And a false cause-effect relationship between lower
minimum wage and higher actual wage -- again as though no other factors exist,
such as the simple willingness of those ND employers to deal more justly with
their neighbor than do others.Flashback"The minimum
wage is nothing more than a training wage."So says YOU. It is a
myth, an Utter falsehood. The laborer is worthy of his hire."If
you don't like what an employer pays, seek employment elsewhere."You know it doesn't work that way. Unequal bargaining power, for
one thing.red state pride"What right do you have to
tell someone who wants to work for 7 dollars an hour that they aren't
allowed to?"Answer: Every right, when it is a matter of an
employer "taking the advantage of another because of his words," or of
"digging a pit for thy neighbor."
If a company's top people get annual raises, then its bottom employees
should share in the company's good fortune with raises of their own. And
they shouldn't have to beg for it, either.
All of you that are saying, "all you have to do is get more skills..."
simply are not recognizing the severity of the circumstances. Things have
changed from the 1950's. A state college runs $10,000 a year
just for tuition. A trade school often runs in the range $20,000 plus just to
get a $15 an hour limited opportunity job as a mechanic or technician.When you have no money and your family has no money, it makes those prospects
pretty slim when REPUBLICANS are also cutting student aid and loans back as far
as they can everywhere. Private loans for trade school are outrageous. We're talking about people that are working 2 jobs just to keep a roof
over their heads and maybe have kids as well and republicans deride these
Americans for putting off marriage and a family. Wow. I hope the next life
presents a lot of people the opportunity to see what it's like to be poor
in a country of vast wealth.
@Mike Richards"Does the "government" have a huge
"stash" hidden somewhere."Your rhetorical statement
reflects obliviousness to how our banking system works. The government literally
prints our money. There are actual stashes of cash that are distributed
throughout the economy or withheld for monetary policy purposes. Why don't
conservatives generally understand this? Bold proclamations like "government
doesn't create wealth" belies a tenuous grasp on how our economy works,
and somehow rings true for some. Winners and losers are often, repeat often, not
always, a result of exploitative opportunities of the system. For example, if I
take advantage for one year of a tax loophole that results in saving one
thousand dollars instead of it being taxed away, have I earned that one thousand
dollars? No, a shift in government policy or activity resulted in that money
remaining in my hands. When this happens on a large scale it produces market
failures and needs to be corrected. The minimum wage is one policy to combat
market failures. One can attribute low wages to worker ignorance or managerial
greed, but the fact remains: current minimum wage is not a living wage.
@Mike Richards -- Obama lives the life of a king? Oh brother. You people are
so over the top you might as well be on the moon. How EXACTLY does he live any
more like a king than ANY other president in history? Statements like that are