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UteLinks: NCAA proposal would give Pac-12 more power

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  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2014 1:00 p.m.

    Love it!

    This has been the direction for years and will continue.

    We likely are headed to where the 5 power conferences separate even more from the rest of college football.

    We'll make our own rules and govern ourselves.

    We'll have our own playoffs and only power conferences will essentially be division 1.

    The teams that aren't worthy of a power conference invite can form their own playoffs or whatever they want, but they wont ever be part of football with the big boys!

    I love my Pac 12 membership!

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2014 1:02 p.m.

    Pretty soon we'll have 5 power conferences as Division I

    non power conference teams will be division II

    The gap between Utah and the rest of Utah schools is about to grow much much larger!

    I can see byu and usu competing for Division II titles in the not too distant future. LOL!

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 25, 2014 1:51 p.m.

    Chris:
    As usual you didn't seem to really read what the board is proposing. It's essentially looking at the Big 5 being able to establish rules of autonomy but other schools and/or conferences can follow those rules as they can or as they see fit. In terms of stipends to athletes, jobs outside of athletics, etc, BYU has the money and means to follow whatever guidelines are established by the Big 5. Sorry, no matter how badly you want it, BYU isn't going away and will continue to have more fans, championships, trophies, and Div 1 history than U...now cover up, you're jealousy and wishful thinking are showing again.

  • Tajemnica West Valley, Utah
    April 25, 2014 2:04 p.m.

    Too bad the lowly utes still aren't able to compete with the "big boys." When they've had the success of schools such as my alma mater (USC) or Oregon, LSU, Florida, Alabama, etc. Then Chris B will have an argument. Until then the conversation with regards to utah will still be in comparisons to 'big schools' such as: Virginia, Colorado, Kansas, Iowa St., Georgia tech, Northwestern, Purdue, Arkansas, Kentucky, etc. They should all form their own football "power" conference called, The Mediocre 10: but we are still technically Big Boys. The utes might also go bowling again.

    I do agree with Chris B on his opinion that before long the big 5 will be considered D1 with the rest as D2 teams. May not be ethically responsible but that seems to be the way things are going.

  • maq West Valley, Utah
    April 25, 2014 2:10 p.m.

    It would never happen but it would be interesting to have the NCAA form some sort of league along the same lines as European soccer leagues. Create some sort of system of promotion and relegation. That way teams can advance on their own merits regardless of conference affiliations. The big boys of college football would largely remain the same and those on the outside looking in such as BYU or even those that are in but haven't yet proven themselves such as utah would have a way of proving they belong. Won't ever happen but it would be an interesting concept.

  • Speed_Altitude Centerville, UT
    April 25, 2014 2:11 p.m.

    I don't get it.
    1) Where was the NCAA when the BCS hijacked the college bowl system.
    2) Why is 5 conferences the magic number? What is the criteria that these 5 conferences have met and other conferences haven't.

    I have no faith in the NCAA. Looks to me like the NCAA is just bowing to pressure from the money grabbers. How does this effect the NCAA basketball tournament? hmmmmmm And . . yes a Utah man am I!

  • RSLfanalways West Valley, UT
    April 25, 2014 3:01 p.m.

    I love how Chris said that "I can see byu and usu competing for Division II titles in the not too distant future." What about the Ute's are they not going to compete for the Division I title are they not good enough? At least he recognizes that USU and BYU will be good in the future.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2014 3:17 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs,

    You're only fooling yourself if you don't think this will create more of a gap between the power conferences and the non-power conference teams

    I understand fully what the issues are and I realize that byu could watch what the power conferences decide(without any say in the matter because no big conference wants to invite you) and then choose to implement some of the same policies.

    I think(I could be wrong but its just my guess) that byu would not choose to pay athletes the same amounts and enact all the same benefits that the power conferences would do. I think sooner or later things will become too expense for teams that aren't bringing in power conference money and they just wont be able to compete. And byu doesn't bring in the money that Utah and the other power conference teams do.

    Like I said, we're moving towards power conference being Division I and teams that don't deserve to be in power conferences being division II.

    Even Tajmaneca above agrees with me.

    byu and usu will be among the best division II teams I think though.

  • Jeremy234 SLC, UT
    April 25, 2014 4:33 p.m.

    I would like to point out that A.) this is not a split the scheduling will remain essentially the same. B) the five power conferences (Pac-12, Big 10, Big 12, SEC, and ACC) will be able to pay their players a stipend and their players will be able to have control of their names and images. C.) BYU will NOT be able to participate in this since they will still be governed by the NCAA.

  • Lifelong Ute Salt Lake City, UT
    April 25, 2014 4:35 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs -

    If there wasn't truth to Chris's point, the article(and all similar articles on ESPN, Sports Illustrated...etc) would make no distinction about power conferences being given more power as opposed to just all college football teams. There are already big differences between the power the teams in the big 5 conferences have and those teams not in the big 5 conferences.

    And those differences are getting larger and larger.

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    April 25, 2014 5:07 p.m.

    Jeremy234

    "BYU will NOT be able to participate in this since they will still be governed by the NCAA"

    two words: reading comprehension

    The draft proposal called for "permissive legislation," in which the Big Five would have the ability to enact rules, and the other Division I members could determine whether or not to adopt the rules, as well.

    In other words, it would be ENTIRELY up to BYU, as an Independent, to decide whether they wanted to follow the rules enacted by the Big Five conferences, or not.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 25, 2014 5:41 p.m.

    Backpacn:
    Well said, thank you.

    Lifelong:
    The distinction is being made about power 5 conferences vs the rest of CFB because there are some conferences or universities that can't afford or keep pace with their proposals. I assure you that both ND & BYU can afford their proposals, and being independent they don't have conference rules to hold them back.

    Chris, U honesty don't think BYU can afford it? Time to take off the rosy goggles and look at BYUs facilities, and athletic teams and programs which outnumber Utah's by quite a bit. Do you think that was MWC money that paid for all that? What people don't realize, or just don't want to acknowledge is that the church has business holdings and makes a hefty income outside of tithing...they can use this income however they see fit including subsidizing their universities. They also have very influential, wealthy boosters that provide a hefty amount of money. Some schools don't need conference money to thrive. None of what the Big Five is doing would keep BYU out. BYU could choose to stay out but I think that's wishful thinking on your part.

  • jeru0455 SALEM, OR
    April 25, 2014 6:37 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs: BYU outnumbers Utah in sports and facilities? That's some news to me. Last I checked BYU and Utah sponsor an almost identical list of sports. I hope they don't let BYU participate in this. Us and our power conference brothers deserve it, BYU and the mid-majors certainly do not.

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    April 25, 2014 11:56 p.m.

    jeru0455

    "BYU outnumbers Utah in sports and facilities? That's some news to me."

    Not surprising from someone who lives under the crimson bubble.

    BYU has 21 athletic teams; Utah only has 17.

    BYU has baseball and softball fields; Utah only has a softball field.
    BYU has indoor and outdoor track facilities; Utah only has an outdoor track.

    BYU Men's Teams(10)
    Baseball, Basketball, Cross Country, Football, Golf, Swimming & Diving, Tennis, Indoor Track & Field, Outdoor Track & Field, and Volleyball

    Utah Men's Teams(6 1/2)
    Baseball, Basketball, Football, Golf, Skiing(Coed), Swimming & Diving, and Tennis

    BYU Women's Teams(11)
    Basketball, Cross Country, Golf, Gymnastics, Soccer, Softball, Swimming & Diving, Tennis,
    Indoor Track & Field, Outdoor Track & Field, and Volleyball

    Utah Women's Teams(10 1/2)
    Basketball, Cross Country, Gymnastics, Skiing(Coed), Soccer, Softball, Swimming & Diving,
    Tennis, Indoor Track & Field, Outdoor Track & Field, and Volleyball

    Current Directors' Cup Standings
    #29 BYU 444.50 points
    #50 Utah 298.25 points

    In the 20+ year history of the Directors' Cup, Utah has NEVER finished ahead of BYU,

    in fact,

    Utah's best finish, #51 in 2008-09,
    was worse than
    BYU's worst finish, #47 in 2008-09.

    Average finish since 1993-94
    #30 BYU
    #62 Utah

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    April 26, 2014 10:29 a.m.

    If this goes through I don't think we will ever see a competitive Utah football team again. The University can ill-afford paying athletes what other Universities can. While the University will likely put out teams, they will have to rely on the "minimum-wage" athlete to play against the superstars of the PAC12.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    April 26, 2014 10:39 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs,

    You are exactly right in terms of the money and resources BYU has and enjoys and the advantages that come with it because of who owns and operates BYU. That is also the reason why none of the Big 5 want BYU or why the MWC would ever take BYU back. No conference especially the state schools want to invite an elephant into the room. The PAC 12 already has Stanford and USC. The Big 12 has Texas. Nobody wants a school that can out spend them. It sounds strange but that is really the reason no one wants BYU. Forget Sunday play and conservative school and honor code. Those are not deal breakers. Resources are. I believe that Utah would not even support an invitation to BYU to join the PAC 12. But over time Utah will exceed BYU in facilities because BYU will back off as they remain on the outside looking in and the owners lose some interest because of the direction college athletics is taking.

    As for ND they for all intents and purposes are members of the ACC and will be treated as such.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    April 26, 2014 10:50 a.m.

    Gotta luv how CB continues to beat the PAC 12 conference drum, because she has absolutely nothing worth beating her chest over since the Utes joined the PAC.

    Here's a clue.

    Being a perennial "power" conference bottom dweller is like being a pop singer groupie. You're along for the ride and you may get to enjoy some perks along the way, but in the end, you're nothing but cannon fodder for the real big boys of the college football world.

    Do you honestly think that USC, UCLA, Stanford and Oregon even care what Utah's opinion is when it comes to setting policy for the conference? The Utes will simply continue do what they're told to do, like waiting four years to become a "full member" of the conference.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    April 26, 2014 11:51 a.m.

    Jeremy234

    Any way you slice it,

    10 BYU Men's Teams > 6 1/2 Utah Men's Teams

    and that doesn't even include BYU's Rugby team, which is currently playing for their 3rd straight national championship.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    April 26, 2014 12:25 p.m.

    The title of the article says it all. The fact is, the gap is widening, and byu is being forced to make some tough choices. The angst in happy valley is palpable.

    Go Utes. Go Pac 12. Go Power Conferences.

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    April 26, 2014 1:08 p.m.

    Are utah "fans" truly this incapable of comprehending what is true and what is simply their blind delusional desire?

    Let's look at this logically.

    Who is more capable of paying athletes more than they currently receive, the school that turns a 5 million dollar profit on its athletic program every single year or the school that has to be subsidized around 10 million dollars by its students and the states tax payers?

    Which schools athletic director made these comments two months ago in an interview with the media?

    "we have studied this over the last couple of years, we are prepared to do what it takes to be competitive...but we don’t have to worry about that right now, budgetarily...we are prepared to make that move. We are willing to move forward with what we gotta do to be competitive... we are willing to go that route."

    I'l give you a hint, it wasn't utah's. When you have the means to do these things then there are no worries and there is only one school in the entire state that actually has the means to do it at this point and it isn't utah.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 26, 2014 1:44 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs & backpacn

    You guys are reading things the way you hope them to be. Others are doing the same.

    Bottom line, there's much to be determined. But the way I sense this will go for BYU is something like this...

    Due to being independent in football, BYU will be given the option to adopt or not adopt the new options the power 5 will have. That being the case, BYU will be just fine.

    Due to their WCC affiliation in basketball, they'll be forced to accept whatever it is the WCC agrees upon.

    In other words, I'm fairly certain there will be conferences outside the power 5 that may end up with the option of adopting the same new criteria as the power 5. That said, it could very likely come down to a vote from administrators from each school within those conferences, with the majority being the deciding factor. It may even have to be a higher percentage than just getting the majority. If this ends up being the case, BYU will be needing to exit the WCC.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    April 26, 2014 3:53 p.m.

    Troy Town,

    The PAC 12 is governed by a set of by laws that are binding on all schools. The presidents of those schools under the by laws govern the PAC 12 not Larry Scott or the AD's. Utah's voice is equal to all others and Dr Pershing is respected among his peers.

    Duckhunter,

    You know better. We have discussed this. No tax payer money goes to fund Utah Athletics.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 26, 2014 4:26 p.m.

    Dutchman & motorbike:
    Excellent posts on both accounts. Good points about decisions that will have to be made, including other sports & the WCC brought up by motorbike...it will indeed effect BYUs affiliation with the WCC if that conference can't meet or comply with the guidelines. I also appreciate dutchmans assessment of why BYU isn't in another conference...they tend to like doing things their way which is great for independence, but not endearing when having to play nicely with others. I appreciate the civil and thoughtful dialogue...well done guys.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    April 26, 2014 6:26 p.m.

    Backpackn,

    Slight correction on baseball facilities. Utah has an on campus baseball practice facility. All home games are played at Smith Ball Park where the Bees also play. One of the finest Triple A stadiums in the country. Utah is more than a user of this facility and is actually a partner in its construction. When Salt Lake City bonded to build this ball park Utah joined in as a guaranteed user and revenue stream provider along with the Triple A team making the bonds possible. There is no need for Utah to have its own ball park. Not many, if any, PAC 12 baseball teams play in a better facility.

    Utah is building a state of the art basketball training facility for men and women which BYU does not have.

    You failed to mention the most recent Deseret Duel score featuring competition between Utah and BYU in all sports. Utah 41 BYU 6

  • Hailstorm is a coming Riverdale, UT
    April 26, 2014 7:10 p.m.

    skywalker
    Palo Alto, Ca.

    " Any way you slice it "

    Deseret Dual challenge 2013-2014
    Utah 41
    BYU 6
    Scoreboard !
    You name it...
    Football
    Basketball ( ouch )

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    April 26, 2014 7:15 p.m.

    @dutchman

    Actually you know better, utah's athletic department IS subsidized by its students and by the university itself around 10 million dollars per year. You keep trying to falsely claim differently but I have posted the evidence multiple times. The university of utah athletic department is a net loser, they operate in the black, they are heavily subsidized millions per year and they cannot afford to pay their own way. It is fact, you can verify it through the states budget reports and no longer live in denial.

    BYU on the otherhand runs a multi million dollar surplus and can afford to do just about anything it wants to do.

    Those are facts, unfortunate facts for you but facts none the less.

  • Hailstorm is a coming Riverdale, UT
    April 26, 2014 7:23 p.m.

    Deseret Dual Challenge
    Points / Wins overall Points awarded Utah BYU
    Sep 06, 7:00 PM Women's soccer @ BYU 3 0 3
    Sep 17, 7:00 PM Women's volleyball @ Utah 3 0 3
    Sep 21, 8:15 PM Football @ BYU 10 10 0
    Dec 14, 2:00 PM Women's basketball @ BYU 3 3 0
    Dec 14, 8:00 PM Men's basketball @ Utah 10 10 0
    Jan 11, 7:00 PM Women's gymnastics @ Utah 3 3 0
    Jan 24, 5:00 PM Men's swimming/diving @ BYU 3 3 0
    Jan 24, 5:00 PM Women's swimming/diving @ BYU 3 3 0
    Feb 19, 5:00 PM Women's tennis @ Utah 3 3 0
    Feb 22, 5:00 PM Men's tennis @ Utah 3 3 0
    Mar 04, 6:00 PM Baseball @ BYU (3 points for series win) 3 0 0
    Mar 20, 6:00 PM Women's softball @ Utah 3 3 0
    Mar 25, 7:00 PM Baseball @ Utah 0 0 0
    May 06, 6:00 PM Baseball @ BYU 0 0 0
    May 13, 6:00 PM Baseball @ Utah 0 0 0
    Utah 61 BYU 6

    Skywalker... in what ozone layer does 6 outdo 41 ?
    The Cougars were totally embarrassed in basketball and lost yet again in football and that is only 2 of the sporting events the byu teams met with woeful losses and futility against your pac-12 neighbor.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    April 26, 2014 10:13 p.m.

    motorbike

    Despite your frantic attempt to claim otherwise, football and basketball are two entirely separate animals. What the WCC decides in basketball will have absolutely no bearing on what BYU decides to do in football.

    The NCAA still controls the NCAA tournament and there's far too much influence by the AAC, Big East, Missouri Valley, MWC, and WCC for the "supposed" Big 5 to try to push their weight around in basketball. Good luck trying to break away and establish a separate division for NCAA Men's basketball. It would be a miserable failure.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    April 26, 2014 10:13 p.m.

    Duckhunter,
    Blah, blah, blah...The elephant in the room is, as the power conferences continue to separate themselves from byu and the D2 conferences, will the powers that be allow byu to conform to our rules, settle for D2 or just drop intercollegiate athletics? Worried, aren't you?

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    April 26, 2014 10:40 p.m.

    Hailstorm

    Despite Utah's head-to-head success, BYU has/will finish significantly ahead of Utah in 8 of 12 sports, not including Track & Field, baseball, tennis, or non-scholarship Rugby, where BYU plays in their 9th straight NC match next week at Rio Tinto.

    Football
    #45 BYU played in a bowl > unranked Utah played couch potato

    Basketball
    #33 BYU men lost in the NCAA round of 64 > unranked Utah men lost in the NIT
    #9 BYU women lost in the NCAA Sweet Sixteen > unranked Utah women played couch potato

    Volleyball
    #4 BYU men won the MPSF regular and tournament championship and will play in the NC tournament next week > Utah men no team
    #9 BYU women lost in the Sweet Sixteen > #17 Utah women lost in the Round of 32

    Soccer
    #17 BYU women played in the Round of 32 > #33 Utah lost in the opening round

    Cross-Country
    BYU men placed 4th at Nationals > Utah men no team
    BYU women placed 28th at Nationals > unranked Utah women

    Gymnastics
    #31 BYU women competed in Regional < #7 Utah women competed in the Final 12

    Swimming & Diving
    unranked BYU men < #35 Utah men
    unranked BYU women < #29 Utah women

    Coed Skiing
    BYU no team < #5 Utah

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    April 26, 2014 10:43 p.m.

    ekute

    You and CB are only fooling yourselves if you think the Utes have any say whatsoever in formulating "the rules" - the truth is, the Utes will march in step with whatever the Big Boys decide.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    April 26, 2014 11:34 p.m.

    Duckhunter,

    The U has a $3.2 billion budget of which $256 million comes from state tax payers covering about 45% of undergraduate tuition costs and none of that state appropriation can be used for collegiate athletics. You insist on asserting that because the U is a state school that the entire $3.2 billion budget belongs to the taxpayers. I have run that assertion by several experts over the past several months since you first made that assertion and none of the experts I talked to agree with you. Yes, in that $3.2 billion budget the U may provide "institutional support" outside of the state appropriation to the athletic department but you cannot make the claim that it is tax payer money appropriated by the state. May I suggest that in the future you simply state that the U within its budget authority may provide support to the athletic department but none of that money is tax payer money or appropriated by the State. In that you would be accurate. To go on claiming that tax dollars support athletics at the U is dishonest. Also, student fees are enacted by a vote of the duly elected student government.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    April 27, 2014 9:49 a.m.

    Dutchman

    Why does a school that is supposedly flush with PAC 12 cash need to coerce students into supporting Utah's athletic programs?

    -------------

    Hailstorm/ekute

    It's ironic that Big 5 conference Utah fans continue to use Utah's head-to-head results versus Independent/WCC BYU as their metric for success, while BYU fans use overall results on a national scale as their metric for success.

    Directors' Cup Standings > Deseret Duel Standings

    for every fan not living under the crimson bubble on the hill.

  • UU Provo, UT
    April 27, 2014 4:46 p.m.

    @Duckhunter "Who is more capable of paying athletes more than they currently receive, the school that turns a 5 million dollar profit on its athletic program every single year or the school that has to be subsidized around 10 million dollars by its students and the states tax payers?"

    Your argument assumes BYU is turning a profit without an infusion of tithing money. Please site your source from a General Authority stating that no tithing money finds it's way in to the BYU athletic department.

    Personally, I'm fine with the fact that some of my tithing money goes to the BYU's athletic dept. I think it's interesting this little fact is not factored in to your analysis.

  • phantomblade Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 27, 2014 9:06 p.m.

    UU

    This statement from BYU's official website should be definitive enough even for a skeptic like you:

    "The Cougar Club is the official booster organization for BYU Athletics. The Athletic Department receives NO TITHING MONEY or tax dollars to run BYU’s athletic programs. The Cougar Club is responsible for raising the funds to pay for Athletic Department expenses including student-athlete scholarships, coaches’ salaries, and recruiting expenses, as well as funding the facilities and programs associated with each of BYU’s 21 athletic teams."

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    April 27, 2014 9:16 p.m.

    @ekute

    What a desperate post by you. I don't worry about but you, like all the other delusional utah "fans", are hoping and praying for something that will never occur. BYU athletics are here to stay, the funding and backing simply out do utah in just about every way.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    April 28, 2014 8:40 a.m.

    UU

    "Please site your source from a General Authority stating that no tithing money finds it's way in to the BYU athletic department."

    Since Cecil Samuelson, BYU's President, is a General Authority and is also ultimately responsible for the content posted on BYU's Official Website, the information posted by phantomblade should allay any of your fears that even one cent of the widow's mite is used to fund BYU athletics.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    April 28, 2014 9:37 a.m.

    Duckhunter,
    The desperation is in your incessant posts about the subsidization of Utah Sports. The U and it's sports programs are in a good place, so what's your point?

    It doesn't matter where byu and it's sports programs are financially. Anybody with open eyes can see the direction that intercollegiate sports has taken, along with the direction that the Church has taken with it's education system...Think about it.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    April 28, 2014 10:03 a.m.

    ekute

    Anybody, except our jealous friends living under the crimson bubble, could see that BYU's athletic programs are much different than the programs at BYU-Hawaii and BYU-Idaho.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 28, 2014 10:26 a.m.

    ekute

    How much will they have to jack student fees at the U in order to pay athletes?

    This so-called "done deal" is far from done. Will women's lacrosse players receive as much as football players? Will women's basketball players receive as much as men's basketball players? How will Title IX issues be addressed?

    The truth is, college sports is opening a whole new can of worms here and NOBODY knows how this is going to play out. Regardless of what decisions the Big 5 and NCAA agree to, one judge, anywhere in the country, could render everything they agree to moot.

    One thing that is certain is this: BYU has the financial resources, administration backing, media appeal, and fan support necessary to weather any storm. BYU didn't spend millions to build a state-of-the-art HD television studio just to play reruns of Little House on the Prairie.

    Despite the desperate wishes of the kids on the hill, BYU athletics will be here competing at the highest level when the dust from the current upheaval is settled.

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    April 28, 2014 12:18 p.m.

    @ekute

    Everything I posted is true. The utah athletic department does run in the red and has to be subsidized 10 million per year to break even. Those subsidies come from charging students and also from other non athletic funds supplied by the university, since every dollar the university has belongs to the state, since the state owns the university, that means it is subsidized by the taxpayers of the state.

    Those are facts, your desperation to claim otherwise is just that, desperation, utah cannot pay its own way athletically.

    Now I don't think the utah athletic program is going to fold up and die, those types of deluded fantasies are the sort of things utah "fans" dwell in, all I am doing here is setting the record straight. BYU is a better run, better funded, athletic program than utah's and is much more capable of absorbing increased costs than the debt ridden and heavily subsidized university of utah program.

    Deal with it because that is a fact. If you prefer not to be reminded of it then stop the inane claims about BYU and I won't have to post inconvenient facts for you to suffer over.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    April 28, 2014 12:34 p.m.

    mussingaround,

    Student fees are hardly coerced. Student fees are collected for a variety of purposes and some of those fees are paid to the athletic department. Students receive admission to athletic events for the fees that they pay. The important thing is all student fees are adopted and approved by the Student government which encompasses the elected representatives of the entire student body from every academic discipline on campus. If the student body through their representatives wants to pay fees and hand over some of it to the athletic department that is their democratic prerogative. Check out most if not all schools in the big five conferences and you will find student athletic fees.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    April 28, 2014 12:52 p.m.

    Duckhunter,

    Read my previous post. I actually know and talk to people in the know regarding this matter. You cannot back up your claim that just because the U is a state school that the entire $3.2 billion dollar budget belongs to the tax payers. It is time to let it go.

    All,

    Actually, Church resources do support collegiate athletics at BYU. The Church looks at all it's facilities on the BYU campus as belonging to the students so as far as facilities go, the construction and on going maintenance, are paid for by the general fund BYU budget with of course donor money included. Facilities like the indoor practice facility, MC and other athletic complexes all get some use by the students for intramural sports etc so they get funded by BYU's general fund. This is why BYU gets hurt by being the big elephant in the room. Most state schools cannot fund athletic facilities this way.

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    April 28, 2014 1:34 p.m.

    @ekute

    The desperation is on your end, and all utah "fans", that are always posting their hopes for the demise of the BYU athletic program. It is obvious you girls have no idea how desperate and ridiculous you sound.

    The facts are these, BYU has all the funding and backing they need to handle any increase in the amount of money paid to student athletes, they operate in the black to the tune of many millions per year. Their athletic director is on the record 2 months aga stating they are far out ahead of this issue, have studied it in depth and are prepared to do whatever they need to do in that regard. A bunch of delusional utah "fans" like yourself posting dreams and fantasies about BYU going away are great reading and incredibly amsuing but of course we all know none of you have the slightest bit of real knowledge on the subject, you are just posting inane rantings of deluded minds.

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    April 28, 2014 1:40 p.m.

    @dutchman

    "I actually know and talk to people in the know regarding this matter."

    Sorry but you obviously do not. All of the money that is made or paid to an entity belongs to the owner of the entity. The state owns the university therefor the state owns all of the universities funds. Period. There is no debate on this, there is no one you've tlaked to "in the know" that knows anything differently because that is just the fact.

    For fun though why don't you tell us who it is that owns those $'s if the actual owner of the university doesn't own them? This is something I'd really like to know. Who does the money belong to if not the owner of the institution? Do you own it? Do these people 'in the know" that you have supposedly talked to own it? Please enlighten us as to who the money belongs to if it isn't the actual owners of the place that gets the money?

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    April 28, 2014 2:04 p.m.

    Dutchman

    It's interesting how "representative" you characterize the "elected" student government to be when they're "setting" student fees, considering the outcry of Utah fans last week when the exact same group of "elected" student "representatives" tried to change the Utah fight song.

    Could it be that students don't necessarily agree to pay higher fees to fund the athletic department, they just don't pay much attention to dry budget debates.

    btw, BYU students also pay student fees, but the ones that really support BYU athletics also pay an additional fee to attend sporting events - free entry into BYU sporting events is a relic of the past, but at least students aren't coerced into paying for something that they have no interest in.

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    April 28, 2014 2:45 p.m.

    Dutchman

    "Slight correction on baseball facilities. Utah has an on campus baseball practice facility. All home games are played at Smith Ball Park where the Bees also play."

    Utah doesn't own Smith Ball Park, so you're only spinning when you try to claim it as "Utah facility"; that's like BYU trying to claim Energy Solutions Arena as their SLC basketball facility.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    April 28, 2014 3:03 p.m.

    These proposals, if enacted, will indeed create a gap

    Unfortunately both Utah and BYU likely will be on the bottom side of that gap.

    All the added perks will become the baseline...BYU, Utah and all other major schools will offer these.

    The differentiator will be the rule allowing athletes to pursue another career while they participate in athletics. Four and five star recruits will instantly all have singing, acting, consulting, public speaking, or you name it "careers" which will allow boosters to funnel unlimited amounts of money to those recruit/athletes, completely within the rules.

    Not that the Y or the U has had much luck recruiting 4 or 5 star athletes, but this has the likely result of instantly making both second tier schools. The U can't compete with USC or UCLA alumni money or Nike money going to UofO. The Y alumni likely won't, on ethical grounds.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    April 29, 2014 7:45 a.m.

    Duckhunter,

    I stand by what I wrote in my previous post. If you want to be accurate and not make misleading statements then simply state that the U within its budget authority may provide support to the athletic department but none of that money is tax payer money that is appropriated by the State.

    Killarney,

    ...."that's like BYU trying to claim Energy Solutions Arena as their SLC basketball facility."

    Here is what I actually posted: …. “Utah is more than a user of this facility (Smith Ball Park) and is actually a partner in its construction. When Salt Lake City bonded to build this ball park Utah joined in as a guaranteed user and revenue stream provider along with the Triple A team making the bonds possible. There is no need for Utah to have its own ball park.”

    BYU was not a partner with Larry Miller to construct Energy Solutions Arena so your comment has no basis.

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    April 29, 2014 4:03 p.m.

    @dutchman

    But it is "taxpayer money appropriated by the state", the state gives the uiversity hundreds of millions of dollars per year and if any money is given to the athletic department from the schools general funds (it is) then a percentage of it has been "appropriated by the state", it just is how it is. And no one at the university is denying it, of course not that would be lying on their part, it is only you the one lone voice trying to make the rest of us believe something that just isn't true.

    Now I think you have truly convinced yourself that you are right about this, I don't think you are purposely trying to mislead anyone but the truth is you are just plain wrong. All you have to do is a little bit of real research and put in some honest and unbiased thought into the matter. I know you badly want for the university of utah athletic department to be self funding but it simply isn't. That doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile it just means it cannot pay for itself.

  • Duckhunter Highland , UT
    May 1, 2014 10:37 a.m.

    @mormon ute

    I know how the budgets work and I didn't say the university just takes $ earmarked for the engineering department and gives it to the athletic department. What they do is take $ from the general fund, before it is earmarked and then earmark it for the athletic dpeartment. Yes they do this, yes that is how it works, they decide up front what the amount of dollars going to the athletic department will be and budget it that direction. It is all part of the budgeting process.

    Why this is so difficult for utah "fans" to understand is really beyond me. The university budgets millions of dollars to athletics that are not dervied from revenue brought in by athletics. It is a fact, they are not self funding they run at a deficit and those dollars given by the university are what allows the athletic department to break even.

    I'll ait for the next one of you to tell me why that money isn't what it really is and doesn't come from where it really comes from.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 1, 2014 4:34 p.m.

    Duckhunter,

    Data put out this week by the sports network the Cougars are so proud to be aligned with reveals that for 2013 the gap in funding for the Ute's athletic programs was only $2.6 million which validates what I said about your information being outdated. That same report also reveals that BYU and Utah spend almost exactly the same amount on athletics annually. The world is changing around you and you just can't see it.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 1, 2014 4:47 p.m.

    I urge anyone reading this to take a look at the data put out this week by The Sports Leader. It reveals flaws in some of the information that has been posted by commenters here in the DNews. According to that data from 2008 through 2013 the Ute's athletic programs have been in the black every year except 2010, 2012 and 2013 or 50% of the time. The data also reveals that University of Utah athletics have never in that time been $10 million in the red. The biggest gap was in 2012 and it was in the neighborhood of $3 million. I believe that validates that we Utes aren't just making this stuff up.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 4, 2014 7:35 a.m.

    Duckhunter
    Highland , UT

    "Why this is so difficult for utah "fans" to understand is really beyond me."

    It isn't a matter of "understanding," Duck. Your rants are emotional, wishful, and flat out wrong. Further, byu-provo doesn't publish the data you claim to have so your comparisons are not only wrong, they are meaningless.

    Clearly, you are spun up about the proposals quickly moving forward that will widen the gap between the Big 5 and all the rest. There's an article on the byu board discussing Holmoe's pending trip to meet with and grovel at the feet of Slive. Check it out and then entertain us all with your rants about how byu deserves to be included among the elite because...well...just because.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 4, 2014 7:57 a.m.

    Uteanymous
    Salt Lake City, Utah

    "One thing that is certain is this: BYU has the financial resources, administration backing, media appeal, and fan support necessary to weather any storm. BYU didn't spend millions to build a state-of-the-art HD television studio just to play reruns of Little House on the Prairie."

    Opinions are funny things. They start with wishful thinking and end as statements of fact. Well done, Uteanymous...well done, indeed. By weathering any storm you mean conference realignment that Holmoe is desperately trying to change as the NCAA proposal advances forward? Is that the storm you are referring to. byu-provo would have been far better off ditching what you call the "state-of-the-art television studio" and making byu-provo a state-of-the-art research facility. But that's a strategy that byu-provo failed to put in place 60 years ago and unfortunately, that ship sailed long ago.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 4, 2014 8:01 a.m.

    All,
    The interest that all things Pac-12 and Larry Scott garners from the byu-provo faithful is stunning. You people so desperately want to belong but fail to realize your place among the elite has to be earned. There are no entitlements outside of the blue bubble.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    May 5, 2014 9:46 a.m.

    Uteanymous,

    Funny thing about that state of the art TV studio, when President Eyring dedicated it he said nothing about the athletic programming content. Not one word. He emphasized the outreach through family oriented programming that is becoming increasingly rare in today's media. The Church built that BYUtv center to promote LDS values across the globe and provide state of the art equipment for students to learn on. That broadcast center will be around long after BYU sports fades away.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    May 7, 2014 1:37 p.m.

    Duckhunter,

    I have reached out to the top ranks of the U administration about budget matters. Here is what I have been told:
    1) The $3.2 billion U budget definately does not belong to the State of Utah
    2) The Governor and the Legislature understand this
    3) A small amount of money is paid to the Athletic Dept. outside of the $253 million state appropriation
    4) It is the goal of the administration to reduce allocations to the athletic dept to zero.

    As you can see from the above my previous statements on this issue are right on the mark.