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In our opinion: An immigration opportunity

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  • Ken Sandy, UT
    April 16, 2014 12:12 a.m.

    Law abiding people are welcome. Others are not. Do it legally or don't do it. And please don't suggest it's good to teach your kids breaking the law is ok if it helps you out.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    April 16, 2014 5:57 a.m.

    The two words that are always missing is Illegal and Amnesty. Those are what it is about. Those that are illegal and those that want amnesty.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    April 16, 2014 6:03 a.m.

    "Republicans didn’t want to give a legislative victory to the president."

    It could have just as easily said "Democrats" had there been a GOP president.

    Look people. We need good ideas and solutions. And it should make no difference who puts them forth. R or D, what difference does it make?

    What is Patriotism? I contend that it is putting country first.

    More and more, we are putting party ahead of country and calling that patriotism. This is the biggest threat to the future of America.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    April 16, 2014 6:39 a.m.

    We already have the most liberal (legal) immigration policy in the world.

    About the only other thing we could do to make things all "warm and fuzzy" for illegal alien trespassers would be to have a new SUV (paid for taxpayers of course)dropped off at the border for them to drive while they're our "guests".

    NOTHING at all is wrong with current law - just enforce it.

    Tell smarmy business owners that we want jobs for LEGAL citizens first.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    April 16, 2014 6:44 a.m.

    "I'm convinced the people of the United States are willing and want a solution," said Dieter F. Uchtdorf, second counselor in the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, after the meeting. Speaking of Congress, he said, "we hope they are mindful of Christian values and don't block those values because different political sides cannot agree on a solution that would bless so many families, individuals and the entire country."

    ======

    You either Agree or Disagree with the LDS Presidency.

    I agree.

    and BTW -- The uber-far-right-wing insistance of 100% total depotation is NOT a viable solution, and is not in harmony with the LDS 1st presidency nor the Utah compact which they also support.

  • techpubs Sioux City, IA
    April 16, 2014 7:06 a.m.

    {And just last week, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush expressed sympathy for the plight of undocumented immigrants. While noting that “they broke the law,” Bush said, “It’s not a felony. It’s an act of love. It’s an act of commitment to your family.”}

    And if a person robs a bank or store in order to feed their family that would also be an act of love. So we need to release all of those people from our prisons and stop sending them there so that they can continue to make the commitment to their families.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    April 16, 2014 7:16 a.m.

    A major website did a survey, It found that Catholic voters were three times more likely to say the government has "a lot" of moral responsibility to protect American workers from
    competition with immigrant workers than to say it has "a lot" of moral responsibility to protect illegal immigrants from being separated from their families by deportation.
    It's no wonder the Catholic church was not there.

    Amnesty for the eighth time is the wrong thing to do. We need to learn from our mistakes

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    April 16, 2014 7:33 a.m.

    Talk about bad timing. This is an election year, with the hugely important mid-terms only a little over 6 months away. No way a huge contentious bill gets any traction now. This is just the Democrats trying to create another wedge issue to use. Wait until the dust settles from the upcoming election, then we'll talk. And, the term "immigration reform" usually means enforcement for conservatives, and amnesty for liberals. I say let's secure the border first. Then we talk about how the illegal millions here are to proceed to possible citizenship.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    April 16, 2014 7:35 a.m.

    @LDS Liberal
    Deporting 12 million, according to a government study done in 2007 by the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agency put the cost at 94 billion. This is a one time cost, that does not include self deportation. The Federation for American Immigration Reform puts the cost of illegal immigration at $113 billion per year. When you add in the boost to our economy from putting millions of Americans back to work in non agriculture jobs, we can't afford not to.

    The compact was a "manipulation of the political process" by members of the Chamber of Commerce. See the other article covering the meeting.

  • cmsense Kaysville, UT
    April 16, 2014 7:51 a.m.

    I find Elder Uchtdorf's comments reassuring. I went to my caucus meeting and all the candidates to be delegates just wanted to ship everyone back, one even prefacing her stance as "I know this sounds cruel". It sounds cruel because it is cruel and deep down she knew it was wrong. It is not realistic or practical either to ship 12 million people back, many of whom have been here for decades. Yes ship people back who just got here. Yes ship people back that have criminal histories. Yes build a fence and make it difficult to cross and enforce our borders. No don't ship people back who have been here for years and their children grew up here. No don't break up families. Yes make them pay a penalty and earn the right to vote through a significant process. If they are veterans of our military, yes grant them citizenship. Yes let there be a workable program for mirgrant workers.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    April 16, 2014 7:53 a.m.

    It's too bad the chosen party of this newspaper, the Republican Party, is not letting reform happen.

    And for you who huff and puff about the law, a change in the law will fix your concern, will it not? What's the problem if the law is changed? Or are your objections really based on other things?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    April 16, 2014 8:08 a.m.

    SLars
    Provo, UT
    @LDS Liberal
    Deporting 12 million, according to a government study done in 2007 by the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agency put the cost at 94 billion.

    =========

    And this does not account for the CHILDREN, or for the break up of these FAMILIES.

    The LDS Church is correct in seeking a compromise.
    You are wrong.

    You either support the Church,
    or you do not.

    That's all there is to it.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    April 16, 2014 8:21 a.m.

    LDS Liberal

    The children are deported with their parents, why would you think otherwise? If they are born here, they can return at 18 and file their citizenship papers. (actually the papers need to be signed at 17). That's been the law since the 80's.

    We have our free agency, and the right to choose which side we take in a political issue.

    We are suppose to question.
    I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. --Brigham Young, "Eternal Punishment," Journal of Discourses,

    From the Young Women Personal Progress Program
    “I will choose good over evil and will accept responsibility for my decisions.”

    It's time the people here illegally were made accountable for their decisions.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 16, 2014 8:27 a.m.

    RE: "reform of the nation’s immigration laws are needed now, not in a political campaign cycle that is convenient for Republicans”...

    ---

    How is postponing this till the election convenient for Republicans??

    Republicans have zero chance of winning any immigrant votes. Pushing this to an election year benefits Democrats.

    There's no element of the immigration debate that gives Republicans an advantage. Democrats do use it to their advantage though.

    Republicans don't gain votes by having this debate during the election.

    ====

    This will sound "immoral" but I think we actually need to temporarily slow down immigration (even legal immigration). We can't keep adding millions of new people to the work force annually in an economy that isn't creating any new jobs.

    Once the economy picks up and we see job creating requiring more workers... THEN you loosen up immigration laws... not when there are no new jobs for the new people immigrating to the US. They have to displace someone from their job... or go jobless themselves...

    Either way... it's not good for the US Government or our economy to have more workers than we have jobs.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    April 16, 2014 8:52 a.m.

    Have the 8th, 9th, and 10th Commandments been rescinded?

    "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (Isaiah 5:20)

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber." (John 10:1)

    There are many more arguments for enforcement than amnesty. That said, this was a very small group of people, the majority of religions were not there.

    I don't see an opportunity, when amnesty would deliver 32 million new Democrats. (congressional budget office report of senate bill) over the next ten years. If Obama tries to issue an executive order, it will kill any "reform" talks.

    When do we discuss how business gets amnesty also. Should they be exempt and prosecuted? The family excuse does not work for them. Wait, if they are in jail, they are separated from family, so I guess it works for them also.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    April 16, 2014 9:47 a.m.

    Enforcing the border and enforcing employer sanctions will pretty much take care of the problem. I believe that those who cannot get jobs will self deport. No families need to be broken up. There is no law keeping them from all returning to their own country and being together.

    I think we're all very conflicted about this. No one wants to see someone suffer. But, we need immigration to happen on our own terms and not of the terms of those who choose to break the law.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 16, 2014 9:55 a.m.

    People who see immigration as a political opportunity, or an opportunity to score some political points for their side... are on the wrong path.

    Immigrating to a new country is a big decision. These people are uprooting their lives and their families. And some people just see them as numbers, political leverage, votes, minions, rhetorical points scored for their team, etc....

    At least they are doing it legally. I'm proud of them. Shows they respect the laws of the country they are immigrating too. That's a good sign.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    April 16, 2014 10:01 a.m.

    I get the feeling that both Republicans and Democrats are fed up with the tail wagging the dog on this issue. The Utah Compact is a great starting point for a solution. I think we can all agree Utah is reasonable conservative state yet there always seem to be those digging in and trying to make sure nothing gets done.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    April 16, 2014 10:29 a.m.

    SLars
    Provo, UT
    LDS Liberal

    The children are deported with their parents, why would you think otherwise? If they are born here, they can return at 18 and file their citizenship papers. (actually the papers need to be signed at 17). That's been the law since the 80's.

    ===========

    On what planet? --
    The 14th ammendment [specifically Section 1.] assures automatic citizenship when born here.

    That's been in the United States Constitution since the 1860's.

    Deporting American children with their non-America Parents is HEARTLESS,
    and that, in part, is what Pres. Uchtdorf is referring.

    BTW --
    I thank God in Heaven above that he provided a COMPROMISE [Jesus Christ himself] to get into his Kingdom as well.

    If he was a heartless as some of you,
    Lucifer would win,
    and NONE of us would make it -- because we have ALL broken the laws at one time or another.

    Justice and Mercy is a BALANCE -- i.e., compromise.

  • Ltrain St. George, UT
    April 16, 2014 11:20 a.m.

    @ LDS Liberal

    The action that is "HEARTLESS" is the democratic party using, and manipulating minorities so that they will get their votes to stay in power. They never offer any solutions to help these people, just abuse them for votes by continually playing the race card. Pres. U didn't mention anything about amnesty so let's not get high and mighty thinking he's signing off on The Dem's master plan.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    April 16, 2014 11:30 a.m.

    LDS Liberal

    "You either Agree or Disagree with the LDS Presidency."

    Remember that when they condemn Gay Marriage.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 16, 2014 11:33 a.m.

    @SCfan
    "Wait until the dust settles from the upcoming election, then we'll talk."

    The Senate passed an immigration bill in June of 2013 (68-32). Speaker Boehner has done nothing with it.

  • Carson Provo, UT
    April 16, 2014 12:14 p.m.

    Pass Nation wide E-Verify, and the majority will self deport.

  • techpubs Sioux City, IA
    April 16, 2014 12:17 p.m.

    Had both major parties made sure that the current Immigration Laws were fully enforced since they were created in 86 we would not have 10 million or more illegal aliens in our Nation today.
    So the first question needs to be what proof do you have that anything needs to be changed besides the lack of enforcement? There is nothing showing that 1 million legal immigrants each year is not adequate for our needs. The next question is why won't US citizens or those with work visas take certain jobs? Is it because some employers prefer to pay lower than normal wages to people who are willing to break our laws?

    I also want to know why some of you favor allowing those who have been here several years special consideration even though many have been deported 3 or more times and keep returning without permission?

    And what do we tell the ones who have applied legally and have been waiting patiently? Do we just say "You should have broken our laws instead of following them"?

    4 million or more want to come here each year. How many should we allow in over the next 20 years?

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    April 16, 2014 12:24 p.m.

    LDS Liberal

    He is correct. A child born here under 18 years of age has to return home with the parents, until they turn 18. They can't stay here alone, but they can stay with relatives that are citizens (not green cards).

    A lot of groups have claimed they are good for our economy. As Alan Greenspan said, they provide a flexible labor force, to assure business has a oversupply of cheap labor.

    But like most studies, he is looking at it through the bottom line of business, and ignoring the costs that are unfairly being pushed off onto the American taxpayer. Studies that factor in the bottom line and cost to social services and governments at all levels, show they cost this county $3 for every $1 they contribute. If business had to carry that burden on their books, Greenspan would be whistling a different tune.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    April 16, 2014 12:24 p.m.

    Let's go back to square one. The purpose of American immigration laws and policies is not to be either humane or inhumane to illegal immigrants. The purpose of immigration laws and policies is to serve the national interest of this country. There is no inherent right to come live in the United States, in disregard of whether the American people want you here. Nor does the passage of time confer any such right retroactively.--Thomas Sowell

  • SoCalChris Riverside, CA
    April 16, 2014 12:27 p.m.

    “I disagree with the president on many things, including life, marriage, religious liberty, (the Department of Health and Human Services contraceptive) mandate; this is one of those issues that isn’t a red state, blue state divide.”

    I can relate to this statement, except I disagree with one thing -- it shouldn't be a red state/blue state divide, but I'm afraid it is. I hope that changes. The is one issue where common ground should be found.

    Insisting that every illegal immigrant be deported is an unnecessarily harsh position that will only perpetuate the status quo and will continue to doom the GOP to losing elections they should win.

    It doesn't happen very often, but I agree with LDS Liberal's comments.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    April 16, 2014 12:29 p.m.

    "The action that is "HEARTLESS" is the democratic party using, and manipulating minorities so that they will get their votes to stay in power."

    Actually, the democrats don't need to do any manipulation. All they have to do is sit back and let the GOP will push away the minorities.

    And the same goes for women.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 16, 2014 12:50 p.m.

    @JoeBlow,
    RE: "Actually, the democrats don't NEED to do any manipulation"... But they do.

    They don't NEED to, but they do manipulate and pander to minorities in return for their support.

    Examples:
    -Who started the "War on Women" line.. GOP? No Democrats.
    -Who keeps telling the NAACP that only the Democrats will take care of them, and the GOP would put them back on the plantation.. the GOP? No, our Democrat VP.

    But I agree they don't need to manipulate them. The GOP would push them away on their own. But Independents don't. And there are more Independents than there are Republicans OR Democrats. They just can't get organized. IF Independents could get organised BOTH parties would be scrambling... The GOP already is.

    But I don't think either party has anything to worry about from Independents. They will never get organized. That's kinda what being "Independent" is all about (not joining any party, even a 3rd party)...

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    April 16, 2014 1:28 p.m.

    "They don't NEED to, but they do manipulate and pander to minorities in return for their support."

    I agree with you. It is how politicians act. They will all sell their soul for a vote (and a buck).

    "But Independents don't. And there are more Independents than there are Republicans OR Democrats. They just can't get organized. IF Independents could get organised BOTH parties would be scrambling.."

    I think the GOP is alienating the independents also. Independents are generally moderate. Some moderate left and some moderate right.

    The Democrats are far more accepting of moderates than the GOP.

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    April 16, 2014 1:45 p.m.

    Schnee

    I guess Boehner is following the lead set by Reid in the Senate. Truth is, the bill passed by the Senate wouldn't likely pass the House. After the next election, a lot of Congressmen and Senators will be under less pressure of an election and therefore more likely to do something. And, after next election, the Republicans just might have both houses, so, it will be on them to do something. I'd bet it will be Obama who will veto any bill coming out of Congress then because an immigration bill acceptable to Republicans would need stuff like E-Verify, voter ID, and tough enforcement at the border to pass. Stuff the Democrats seem to be against. Why is that by the way?

  • Dragline Orem, UT
    April 16, 2014 2:29 p.m.

    @Joe Blow You cannot cite parity between Dems and Repubs in this argument. It's just not true.
    Remember when George W Bush pushed his immigration reform policies and his own Republican leaders shot it down. Even now, JEB Bush's remarks were hailed as accurate by the liberal media (MSNBC and others) and condemned by the conservative press (Fox news and others).

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 16, 2014 2:35 p.m.

    In order to keep government out of religion, we have to keep religion out of government.

    They tell us that religious fundamentals should be fostered by the government because those fundamentals do not necessarily favor any particular religious dogma. Yet in truth, when the government allows religion to enter into government it is favoring a religion.

    It would be the same as asking the government to tell the people to eat meat on the premise that since there are all kinds of meat the government would not be favoring any one kind of meat over another.

    It is wrong for business to use government to carry out their agenda, It is a thousand times worse when religion does the same thing.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 16, 2014 2:56 p.m.

    The reason that religion seeks more immigration is the same as any other business, it's called MONEY. Every church and religious organization is a business with a product to sell and a set of consumers to buy that product with money. And religious organizations participate in non-religious businesses to the extent they are businessmen seeking cheap labor.

    Probable: There are more broken families in America from economic problems than families broken by immigration procedures. There are more poor Americans than poor immigrants. There is likely more of everything sad in our nation than in the immigrants group.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    April 16, 2014 2:56 p.m.

    Anti Bush-Obama
    Chihuahua, 00
    LDS Liberal

    "You either Agree or Disagree with the LDS Presidency."

    Remember that when they condemn Gay Marriage.

    11:30 a.m. April 16, 2014

    ========

    Oh, I am.

    I wanted Civil Unions or Domestic PArtnerships.
    The GOP shot it down.

    The LDS Church called for eqaul housing rights.
    The GOP shot it down.

    I support the LDS Church -- I want to see serious immigration reform.
    The radical all-or-nothing GOP shoots it all down. 100% deportation.

    The LDS church policy allows for abortion for rape, incest, and Life health of the woman and Viability of the fetus - for it's MEMBERS - and is politically neutral on abortion,
    The all-or-nothing extreme GOP shoots that all down.