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Utah A.G. asks appeals court to stay judge-approved same-sex adoptions

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  • LovelyDeseret Gilbert, AZ
    April 9, 2014 10:50 p.m.

    I am so glad Utah is preventing these adoptions. Good, strong, healthy families are of the most importance to Utah.

  • Bob K portland, OR
    April 10, 2014 12:27 a.m.

    What happens to the kids?
    It's not like the Gay folks are stealing children for whom dozens of other loving homes of married opposite sex couples were waiting. Gay people often adopt the "hard to place" kids.

    Everything Reyes does seems to be to please the lds church and its most conservative members.

    No justice for the kids who must wait?

    No justice for the parents longing to have them?

  • Liberty For All Cedar, UT
    April 10, 2014 1:10 a.m.

    I'm so glad I live in a state that looks out for and demonstrates that they care about the best interests of children. Thank you Sean Reyes, you have my vote and many other Utahans who care about real families. You can count on my financial and political support on your upcoming campaign. The gay agenda will be defeated.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    April 10, 2014 6:03 a.m.

    Hang in there Leary family. Many "know not what they do," but soon laws will be in place so that your family is protected and supported just as theirs are.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    April 10, 2014 6:53 a.m.

    @LovelyDeseret 10:50 p.m. April 9, 2014

    I am so glad Utah is preventing these adoptions. Good, strong, healthy families are of the most importance to Utah.

    --------------------

    These children already have "good, strong, healthy families" but the state officials are denying both parents in those families legal recognition. Sad for the children involved.

  • Liberty For All Cedar, UT
    April 10, 2014 7:23 a.m.

    Children deserve a Mom and a Dad.

    Our man, Sean Reyes was paying attention to the talks given during conference weekend.

  • Noodlekaboodle Poplar Grove, UT
    April 10, 2014 7:48 a.m.

    @Libertyforall
    Oh, I'm confused, I thought that there was supposed to be a separation of church and state, not state officials taking orders from a religious conference. Honestly, anyone who believes in the rule of law should be disgusted by this. A judge validated these adoptions. It's not Sean Reyes's job to issue his own stay because he doesn't like a ruling, or to deny these people there rights, while trying to get a stay. It's not how it works. Utah's elected officials hatered of gays(you can't justify treating someone like this unless you hate them) is going to make them look foolish after time. You know how people still talk about the LDS church not granting full membership to black people until 1978, ya this is going to look just as bad in 20 years.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    April 10, 2014 7:57 a.m.

    (I'm doubtful my messages will pass the censors, but here goes)

    My marriage was previously banned in many states, and the welfare of the kids was put up as a defense of the laws banning marriages between racial groups.

    Fortunately, by the time I got married those laws had been outlawed, and though we were warned that people wouldn't accept our marriage and the children would have a tough time, that hasn't happened, and our kids are all on track to be college graduates, successful in life.

    If my wife and I had met before 1967, our 26 year marriage and four successful offspring would not have occurred.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    April 10, 2014 8:12 a.m.

    "This sicking, demeaning action on the part of the AG illustrates the true nature of those who wish continued state-sponsored bigotry and discrimination."

    Don't just say how it is bigoted. Explain how it is bigoted.

    If they allow the adoption, a lot of lawyers will say, "They allow adoptions, therefore, they intended for their to be same sex marriage.

    I read an essay about a man who was raised by two lesbian mothers. He said that he was socially awkwards because he never had the example of male social skills in his home.
    Just last night I read about a court case where a baby was adopted and the mother's female live-in partner sued to have her listed as the child's 'father' on the birth certificate.

    People will say here that all a child needs is love. But when the child grows up and finds out that a judge, the state and her mother and mother's partner participated in an obvious fraud that child is not going to trust anyone.

  • equal protection Cedar, UT
    April 10, 2014 8:28 a.m.

    Michigan findings of fact and conclusions of law:

    Every major professional organization in this country whose focus is the health and well-being of children and families has reviewed the data on outcomes for children raised by lesbian and gay couples, including the methods by which the data were collected, and have concluded that these children are not disadvantaged compared to children raised in heterosexual parent households. Organizations expressing support for parenting, adoption, and/or fostering by lesbian and gay couples include (but are not limited to): American Medical Association, American Academy of Pediatrics, American Psychiatric Association, American Academy of Child and AdolescentPsychiatry, American Psychoanalytic Association, American Psychological Association, Child Welfare League of America, National Association of Social Workers, and the Donaldson Adoption Institute."

    The APA unanimously voted in favor of issuing a position statement that research has shown that the adjustment, development, and psychological well-being of children is unrelated to parental sexual orientation and that the children of lesbian and gay parents are as likely as those of heterosexual parents to flourish. Law professor Vivek Sankaran testified that marriage bans destabilizes children raised by same-sex couples in the event the legal parent dies or becomes incapacitated."

  • Noodlekaboodle Poplar Grove, UT
    April 10, 2014 8:57 a.m.

    @Tekakaromatagi
    I can tell you how it's bigoted. Two different judges approved these adoptions. If it's an opposite sex couple than anything else the do in relation to making their adoption official is just a formality, what you really need is a judges approval. But even though a judge approved it, and there is no legal basis to not go through with these adoptions, the state is denying them the right, even though a stay has not been issued by the courts. The AG's office is only doing it because they don't agree with the lifestyle of these two couples. That's the definition of bigotry my friend.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 9:21 a.m.

    So a kid with one gay parent is okay, a kid with two gay parents, that's harmful and must be stopped? Nonsensical logic that is...

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    April 10, 2014 9:28 a.m.

    It's sad to see kids denied good strong healthy families. And, it almost sounds embarrassing to make this argument when single people raise kids. The attorney general, whether on his own volition or because he's being pushed into it, is making what are almost silly arguments.

  • Objectified Tooele, UT
    April 10, 2014 9:54 a.m.

    @ Bob K and NoodlekaBootle:

    Very short sighted to try to blame this common sense action on the LDS church. The Catholic church and lots of other traditional (non-activist) churches are just as opposed to SSM and adoption as the LDS church. Even many conservative athiests remain opposed.

    The fact that only 2% of society participates in homosexual relationships indicates they are an aberation to natural man-woman relationships. It's totally understandable why being raised in such an unnatural environment would cause social issues and problems for those children effected.

    I tried to put myself in their shoes and I would absolutely abhor being raised without a traditional father and mother family setting. As such, why should I or anyone who feels similarly pretend to feel otherwise just to try to feel politically correct or appease SSM advocates?

    Just because one or two activist judges ruled this way doesn't make it right. There was a time when the Supreme Court and many other federal judges ruled that slavery was legal. That certainly didn't make it right. No more so than these 2 judges rulings. And since a silimar ruling is on hold, so should this be.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 10:02 a.m.

    @Objectified
    "I tried to put myself in their shoes and I would absolutely abhor being raised without a traditional father and mother family setting."

    These are kids for whom one of the two parents IS their natural parent, the argument isn't same-sex couple as parents or putting the kids elsewhere, the argument is between same-sex couple as parents, or only having one of those gay people as a parent.

  • Objectified Tooele, UT
    April 10, 2014 10:05 a.m.

    @ Hutterite:

    You have absolutely no way of knowing if the SSM couples involved were "good strong healthy families". The only thing you actually know from this article is that they are same-sex couples. The article doesn't validate anything about whether they are good or strong or healthy... and even the term families is a stretch in this situation, since courts all over the country are still trying to make rulings on such highly controversial matters.

    As such, your statement once again indicates your inherent ultra-liberal bias in this and other social matters. And where bias is, objectiveness is not.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    April 10, 2014 10:07 a.m.

    Can anybody honestly say there's "no animus" towards gays here?

    Just read the very first comment from LovelyDesert.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    April 10, 2014 10:08 a.m.

    @Liberty For All;

    You seem to think that the AG works for the LDS Church. It doesn't matter what was said in general conference last weekend, the AG is not an LDS lackey (or at least he shouldn't be).

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    April 10, 2014 10:13 a.m.

    So, to those saying that this helps the family..

    These kids up for adoption currently have no family. They have two people willing to take full legal responsibility for them, love them as their own and raise them, and you are saying the state Foster Care system is better than that???

    They are in the foster system now because there aren't enough people adopting.

    You can think whatever you want about what makes a good family, but in this case isn't two moms or two dads better than no moms and no dads?

  • riverofsun St.George, Utah
    April 10, 2014 10:22 a.m.

    As these DN articles are being bombarded onto us, the eyes of the country and the world are being opened to the "real Utah".
    Formerly advertised as a beautiful state abounding with amazing forests, mountains, skiing, hiking, and natural wonders. Everyone has wanted to spend time in Utah.
    The state is thought to be filled with loving Mormon people in happy neighborhoods who make visitors feel welcome.
    Who wants to venture that this description of Utah will continue?
    There is going to be an entirely new way to describe this state...
    ....and it's no longer going to be "Beautiful and loving".

  • Noodlekaboodle Poplar Grove, UT
    April 10, 2014 10:27 a.m.

    @Objectified
    The reason I brought up the LDS church was libertyforall's comment that said Mr Reyes must have been listening during general conference. All i'm saying about that is that i'm a Utahn(born and raised) i'm a taxpayer, and I deserve an AG that follows the law, not the marching orders of one religion. I wouldn't be ok with Mr Reyes if he was doing the same thing after a Catholic or Baptist conference, but Mr. Reyes is mormon, and that was the religion that it was implied that he was following orders from, not any other church. That's why I brought up the LDS church.

  • Copacetic Hyrum, UT
    April 10, 2014 10:28 a.m.

    @ Schnee:

    Objectified talked about his/her desire to be raised by "a traditional family setting", not just by a natural parent who may choose to force their child to be raised in a SSM setting.

    Social tests have determined that being raised by both natural parents is the ideal. Kids raised by single parents (natural or not) end up with more social issues and societal problems in general. Though many people raised by single parents become normal, healthy adults, people in prisons were raised by a disproportionate ratio of single parents. Missing the influence of a father or a mother becomes obvious and a fact that shouldn't be downplayed or ignored.

    Though current data of adults raised in a SSM environment is still very limited, it's very possible that long-term issues with those eventual adults might also indicate disproportionate numbers of people having social issues. Time will tell.

    Though being raised in a trational family setting doesn't guarantee anything, it's still shown to be the best overall environment for raising children. A higher percentage of those children have fewer problems later in life. And until other validated data indicates otherwise, we should rely on that.

  • Lane Myer Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 10:35 a.m.

    Objectified, why did the state of Utah change their argument this morning, removing any reference to what kind of parents gay couples are? Why aren't they fighting for the children of gay couples as having a bad situation to put children in? What has changed?

    The studies that proport to prove that children of gays do poorly have been completely discredited! They cannot use these studies and will not call the people who conducted them as witnesses. They proved to be that dishonest in the Michigan trial.

    I know a few kids who are being raised by gays. They know that their family is different. I also know a few African-American kids being raised by white parents. They too know that their family is different. I was raised in a family of 9 children. I knew that my family was different too. Some children have step-parents. Some children are being raised by their grandparents. Every family deserves the support and benefits that we can give them - including these gay families, who are already raising these children and would like these kids to have the security of having two parents.

  • aceroinox Farmington, UT
    April 10, 2014 10:37 a.m.

    These arguments tend to focus on the rights of adults. Concern is expressed for the children involved, but remember--they have no choice in the matter. As the weakest party in the transaction, government must look after THEIR rights before those of the adults involved.

    What are those rights? Nature decrees that a father and a mother are required for conception. We know intuitively (if we are being intellectually honest) that there are unique "goods" that both a mother and a father bring to the raising and nurture of a child, based on the innate characteristics and strengths of men and women (please don't even try to argue the absence of basic differences!). We have only to review Father's Day messages, including from President Obama, for a reminder of the devastating impact of fatherless homes on society and the children involved. One can cite all the "research" one wants, but in our gut we know that both mothers and fathers matter to children, and that a traditional mother-father home is best. We admire those single parents who must go it alone, but laws should favor the optimum scenario.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 10:52 a.m.

    Re: Bob K "What happens to the kids?
    It's not like the Gay folks are stealing children for whom dozens of other loving homes of married opposite sex couples were waiting. Gay people often adopt the "hard to place" kids."

    This is an act of cruelty. There's the old saying "what goes around comes around." Well, Utah is going to pay and pay and pay for this.

  • Stalwart Sentinel San Jose, CA
    April 10, 2014 11:26 a.m.

    Chalk up another example of Utahns using the machinations of government in an attempt to destroy families. This is hypocrisy in it's most vile form.

    I'm LDS, married in the Temple, and cannot imagine life without my family but I also recognize that a family dynamic can exist in various other settings and it is not incumbent upon religious folk to force their version of family on the state to the detriment of others. LGBT people love and care for their kids just as much as Utah Mormons.

    LDS doctrine teaches of a pre-mortal existence wherein a great division occurred over the plans of free agency or compulsion. The AG Sean Reyes is demonstrating what path he ultimately follows now that he's been given a taste of power.

  • Lia Sandy, UT
    April 10, 2014 11:25 a.m.

    The poster "Liberty for All" is not living up to their name here.

  • Values Voter LONG BEACH, CA
    April 10, 2014 11:32 a.m.

    Copacetic wrote:

    "Though current data of adults raised in a SSM environment is still very limited, it's very possible that long-term issues with those eventual adults might also indicate disproportionate numbers of people having social issues. Time will tell."

    What, exactly, is your point? Please spell it out.

    Whatever the situation is, or turns out to be with respect to "SSM parenting environments", there are, --right now-- impressive accumulations of social science data establishing the "sub-optimal" outcomes for children of non-college educated parents, children with parents living at or below the poverty line, children of divorced heterosexual parents, children of single parents, children in step families, and so on. There are other distinct groups for whom "sub-optimal child outcomes" are well established -- no "time will tell" about it -- and yet no one suggests, a.) barring individuals in those groups from being parents, and b.) barring them from marriage.

    Why does the "sub-optimal child outcomes" yardstick only appear when we're discussing the possibility of allowing gay people to marry?

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    April 10, 2014 12:08 p.m.

    @acerinox:
    "We have only to review Father's Day messages, including from President Obama, for a reminder of the devastating impact of fatherless homes on society and the children involved."

    Amen to that. (I mean 'Amen' as a figure of speech.) If we dilute the meaning of marriage by calling it things that it is not the institution loses cultural importance. Marriage is society's way of saying that men should be responsible for their procreative actions.

    The one example that has driven this home to me is one time I visited a youth detention center to tell multicultural stories to young men. People who were there because they broke the law enough times that the overworked justice system finally woke up. I told a story and one of the inmates could not understand the point about a man meeting his father in the field of battle when his father was the enemy. He asked, "How did he know that it was his father?"

    I submit that the reason he was there was because he came from an environment where one would not know one's own father. That is why defending marriage is a liberal value.

  • Bob A. Bohey Marlborough, MA
    April 10, 2014 12:07 p.m.

    It appears to me that Utah is one of the most hate filled places on the planet.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 12:37 p.m.

    @copactic
    "Social tests have determined that being raised by both natural parents is the ideal."
    "Though being raised in a trational family setting doesn't guarantee anything"

    Then stop applying averages as if it's a universal truth. Black children score lower on average on SAT scores, are they harmed? Poor children have higher delinquency rates, are they harmed? Should those marriages be prevented? Should they be prevented from adopting children? No, of course not. But that argument is fair game for gay people. Why? Because a lot of people need an excuse to justify bigotry.

  • El Chango Supremo Rexburg, ID
    April 10, 2014 1:22 p.m.

    Values Voter:

    I'm sure there was no political bias behind any of those studies...(sarcasm)

    Personal experience from many many people dictates that one can't replace Mom with another Dad or vise-versa and get the same result.

  • Sneaky Jimmy Bay Area, CA
    April 10, 2014 1:43 p.m.

    Utah has not only the appearance of evil but an evil, mean spirited soul. To all of you who say a child deserves both a mother and a father please take a look at Kenneth Faried of the Denver Nuggets. He was raised by two mothers since the age of 7. He seems to have turned out alright. In this world we have to make the best of what we have. Those that put barriers up to prevent people from loving and marrying whom they wish are doing a disservice to to their community and fellow human beings.

  • ValiesVoter LONG BEACH, CA
    April 10, 2014 1:59 p.m.

    @ El Chango Supremo

    "I'm sure there was no political bias behind any of those studies…(sarcasm)"

    Sooooo --- the point of your sarcasm is that studies establishing bad outcomes for children in situations of divorce, poverty, single parent-hood -- or where parents have low educational levels, substance abuse problems, mental health issues, etc. are all because of bias on the part of the researchers?

    Alright . . . I trust the intelligence of DN readers to evaluate the effectiveness of that bit of sarcasm.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    April 10, 2014 2:26 p.m.

    @aceroinox;

    Nature may decree whatever it wants. Man has the ability, today, to create a human being by cloning an existing human being. No male/female genders required. We may not be doing it for ethical reasons, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

  • Candied Ginger Brooklyn, OH
    April 10, 2014 2:36 p.m.

    @LovelyDeseret: "I am so glad Utah is preventing these adoptions. Good, strong, healthy families are of the most importance to Utah."

    My partner and I adopted 1 child with special needs and have fostered and are adopting a second special needs child.

    We are lesbians. Two moms. "Good strong families" with straight couples didn't want these kids because they had problems. But you are saying they would be better in foster care, bouncing around the system than with two moms who love them and have them doing well?

    If the state of Utah thinks kids in foster care who need parents and a family that love them will be better off waiting and waiting and waiting instead of being with two dads or two moms then they need to talk to the kids and find out the truth.

    We are part of a a gay/lesbian adoptive parents support group and the kids who now have families are thrilled and happy and don't want to go back to foster care ever.

    I can't believe you think those kids are better in the system than they are with loving parents.

  • Bob K portland, OR
    April 10, 2014 3:14 p.m.

    Objectified
    Tooele, UT
    @ Bob K and NoodlekaBootle:
    "Very short sighted to try to blame this common sense action on the LDS church."

    ---- Very dishonest to say I blame in on the lds church. You are twisting words.
    I blame it on Utah officials kissing the hand of church leaders and the most conservative members. Utah government is considered almost a joke, on the subject of putting fairness and truth ahead of any conflicts with conservative mormons.

    --- The rest of what you wrote is completely disgusting, untrue, and not worthy of reply

  • Jimmytheliberal Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 3:26 p.m.

    @ Lovely Desert...Does not Arizona have enough of their own problems? A simplistic Google search reveals some startling negative information. I'm sorry but there are many of us here in Utah that believe in equity for all and do not desire the view that most have of a backwards thinking state such as Arizona. How about focusing on issues in your state. One knows there are plenty of them!

  • Jimmytheliberal Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 3:46 p.m.

    Once again any support or reference regarding equality for all and acknowledgement that reality is soon to arrive in Utah after the Federal Court ruling is denied by D.N. monitors. Perfect example of why things are in need of change in this great state. Believe it or not there are others who are not Mormon and believe in simple equality and it's about time others realize.

  • Stormwalker Cleveland , OH
    April 10, 2014 5:03 p.m.

    I hope the judges in Denver catch this nugget of information.

    It should leave such a bad taste that if there is any doubt about "animus" the doubt will be totally washed away.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    April 10, 2014 9:13 p.m.

    @NoodleKaboodle:
    "I can tell you how it's bigoted. Two different judges approved these adoptions. . . . The AG's office is only doing it because they don't agree with the lifestyle of these two couples. That's the definition of bigotry my friend."

    I don't believe in the infallibility of judges. Maybe the AGs office is doing it because:
    1) it is their job to defend the state's laws and they are concerned that same sex adoption could be used as a wedge to force Utah to accept SSM, 2)they could be thinkng that if we redefine marriage to include one type of non-procreative union then we are going to have give marriage benefits to all other non-procreative unions and/or that defending traditional marriage is a way to send a message that couples should marry before they have children. 4) etc.

    A few years back a Palestinian attacked an Israeli military outpost in the West Bank. People referred to him as a terrorist. There was nothing terroristic about his attack. He attacked a military facility occupying his country.

    The term 'terrorist' is misused like the term 'bigotry' is being misused in this debate.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 9:34 p.m.

    Listening to Doug Wright on KSL this morning he interviewed the lawyer for one of the couples trying to adopt. Reyes really took a blind sided swipe at them with this legal maneuvering. I felt sorry for the people that got hit by this injunction.

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    April 11, 2014 12:13 a.m.

    ...sadly society should not be surprised to watch so many same sex couples who rush to wed all too soon split apart. Statistics are not on their side. Getting what they wanted is one thing...the reality of commitment and loyalty may well be something else altogether.

  • Danclrksvll Erin, TN
    April 11, 2014 10:33 a.m.

    We already have ''The Family: A Proclamation to the World'' regarding the design of the family unit as designed by our Creator and doctrine that runs counter to that Proclamation is false and cannot be trusted.

  • Sank You, Doctor Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 12:17 p.m.

    Rikitikitavi

    Cardston, Alberta

    ...sadly society should not be surprised to watch so many same sex couples who rush to wed all too soon split apart. Statistics are not on their side. Getting what they wanted is one thing...the reality of commitment and loyalty may well be something else altogether.

    -------------------

    The average time those couples that wed in December/Jan is over 10 years together. Compared to the average time my Mormon friends date before marriage, I think these couples have a good idea what it takes to be committed. Of all the people that I know who married during that time, only one couple had been dating less than 1 year. Can you say that about most couples who are marrying here in Utah?

    Their chances of staying together are excellent. If they had been together for so long without being married, what is to stop them with marriage?
    People have the idea that these were just couples who were dating and just decided to run down and get married because they could! Not true! These couples were already committed to each other and when the opportunity opened up, emails went out, and these committed couples got married.