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In our opinion: Immigration as 'an act of love'

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  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 12:39 a.m.

    Immigration is in large part a labor issue. I find your concern for immigrant labor encouraging. But you need to delve into the treatment of this immigrant labor, much of which is extremely harsh. You should also examine conditions in factories in poor countries making goods for the U.S. market, to see if the treatment of labor there merits your concern.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 3:00 a.m.

    Present a valectorian, a wife of a U.S. soldier, a child brought here "through no fault of his own," or a parent performing "an act of love." Convince Americans these should be exempt from immigration law.

    Exploit the loophole. illegally traffic children across international lines, for example. Untruthfully imply that enforcement of immigration law would break up families when this is not true: illegal-alien parents may take their children with them.

    Speciously imply that all illegal aliens are valedictorians. Claim that their relatives should be exempt from the law as well.

    Then watch as Americans decide that based on the above, immigration law and its enforcement must be inherently wrong.

    The mission is then accomplished: effective abdication of the rule of law.

    This really is a dishonest editorial. It pretends to believe that the fruits of freedom merely are free for the pick'n when the fact is, U.S. servicemen throughout history have paid for these fruits with their BLOOD. It defies a basic principle with which it undoubtedly already is familiar: enjoyment of a given fruit is predicated on compliance with the various laws and principles upon which that fruit is predicated. Otherwise, it is STEALING.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    April 10, 2014 3:41 a.m.

    The illegal immigration discussion has wondered far from enforcing the laws, and having compassion for the American laborer or those with identities and social security numbers stolen. We are in the wave of the largest legal immigration to this country in history. Over a million people come here each year legally. I believe that they are the ones who care about their families. Those that come here illegally know they can be deported along with their family, yet take the chance anyway.

    If families were that important, we would be enforcing the laws and telling people to come here legally. But I think it's an excuse to provide business with cheap labor. Do we care about others who break non-immigration laws to provide a better life for their families, and are separated from their families?? Or just the ones who break immigration laws?

    Compassion is sending people down the path of righteousness; rewarding illegal/dishonest behavior is not compassion.

    Amnesty doesn't work, it just causes more people to come here illegally, and the separation of more families. Let's encourage honesty and obeying the law.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    April 10, 2014 4:36 a.m.

    Most would agree that those who cross the border illegally do so for jobs to support themselves and their family.

    So... Criminal, or Good Provider? Judge for yourself.

    Regardless, Jeb (like Rubio) was just show the tent flap under the EXIT sign.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    April 10, 2014 5:43 a.m.

    Jeb knows better, coming here illegally is a misdemeanor, but working requires a person to commit multiple felonies, including ID, theft, social security fraud, and i-9 perjury. It also is a felony for a businessman to hire someone here illegally. Illegal is illegal is the truth, as it forces people to commit other crimes. The business lobby has fought long and hard to make us not see the toll it takes on society.

    Does someone who loves their children put them in a position where they have to break the law, or return home to have a future?

    I don't buy it. A person who waits their turn loves their children. 95% of the world would be better off here, that's no reason to allow them to break our laws.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    April 10, 2014 7:19 a.m.

    Yes the majority who come illegally are not problems in and of themselves. However, they are part of a very huge problem. Namely drugs and gang members. Because the border is not very secure, both of those bad elements do come in and cause huge problems for Americans. And, all an illegal has to do is have a baby, then they can apply for public assistance for that new citizen. Every state is in debt. The Federal Government is in huge debt. If every person in the world of some 6 billion who wanted to come to America, came here, could we afford it? I doubt it. It may sound selfish, but we in America cannot be the welfare office of the whole world. Or even the Western Hemisphere. Our true unemployment rate is something like 13% and even larger for minorities. We have to regulate who and how many immigrate to this country. We already take in more people from around the world than any other country. We can't keep going on like this or else we will become a 3rd world country too.

  • Jamescmeyer Midwest City, USA, OK
    April 10, 2014 7:54 a.m.

    There are many possible motivations for going from Mexico to the United States and living without doing so legally, but one absolute that must be recognized and balanced is that doing so illegally may involve your being deported. If I commit a crime in order to support my wife or children, that doesn't necessarily mean my crime is horrible, malicious, or unethical... But it is still a crime, because a law is in place, in this particular case, with good reason.

    In this way, illegal immigrants' primary enemy isn't immigration law; it's the drug and human trafficking and violent crimes that such illegal immigration brings with it, even if they're not themselves a part of it. One -can not- make a blanket statement of naive "compassion" and ignore the realities that accompany it; they must understand the entire issue.

    That said, Jeb Bush has enough going for him that I can probably trust him.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    April 10, 2014 8:09 a.m.

    While we should have compassion for everyone, how should the rules of law be applied? Whose words should guide us? In Utah we have a strong belief in Christ. Most of us attend church regularly. What did Christ tell us about law? Didn't he say in Matthew: "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."? Of course he's speaking about entering into his kingdom, not entry into the United States, but the principle is that His rules must be followed. Then Peter tells us: "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons".

    So, if God does not break the rules because of His love and compassion for anyone and if Christ tells us that we must obey the rules in order for His atoning compassion to apply, shouldn't we show respect for law? Shouldn't we require that the rules be followed before we "look the other way"?

    Justice is blind; it doesn't care if breaking the law was an act of "love". Rules protect everyone.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    April 10, 2014 8:11 a.m.

    Good editorial. It's too bad the GOP, the party of this newspaper, will never share the sentiment, and too bad that Jeb Bush will get skewered by his own. Moderation, and rational thought and behavior, are not in the GOP plans. They prefer to scare and mislead the voters in order to gain political power, and have no desire to help the country as a whole.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    April 10, 2014 8:39 a.m.

    Gee, so I decide to shoplift food to support my family. It isn't a felony, most of the time, but I want compassion because I was supporting my family because I didn't make enough money to feed them, so I shouldn't have to pay the penalty or go to jail. It is exactly the same scenario that Bush is pushing. I go to jail, my family suffers. Bush's compassion argument doesn't wash. The rule of law should prevail in an orderly society. Bush won't get my vote if he runs for President.

    We need to close the border and then, on a case by case basis, look at the people that are here illegally and decide if they merit staying or getting deported. A child that was brought her illegally by parents isn't technically responsible for what happened and at that point a decision could be made about their status. But only for the kid. The parents would need leave and apply to come in legally, or get deported.

  • Sal Provo, UT
    April 10, 2014 8:46 a.m.

    If it is an act of love to allow illegals to stay, why wouldn't love prompt us to allow any one to come into the country? People from impoverished countries like India, Egypt, the Sudan, etc., love their starving families, too.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    April 10, 2014 9:29 a.m.

    Right wing conservatives don't want to solve the problem, they want to gain political capital from it. Jeb Bush is correct on why the majority of illegals came here. Sending them home is not going to happen. Jeb Bush could win a general election but he'll never get past the ignorance and grandstanding that is needed to win the GOP nomination.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 9:31 a.m.

    Since the DN wants to talk about Jeb Bush here's a little more info. Jeb Bush, Mike Huckabee, and Lindsay Graham recently journeyed to Vegas so they could court the support (and deeep pockets) of Sheldon Adelson. Sheldon Adelson is ALL for unlimited illegal immigration numbers so they can work in his casinos. Sheldon Adelson is also for a ban on internet gambling so he doesn't have to compete with that. BTW - Sheldon Adelson ALSO is Jewish and puts a LOT of effort into STOPPING immigration into Israel.

    What does that tell you?

    Utah has lost 2 police officers, and a fair amount of average citizens lives recently to the actions of illegal immigrants.

    Why, oh why, would we want to allow more lawbreakers? When will we learn?

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 9:33 a.m.

    You are telling that to the tea party radicals?

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 10, 2014 9:45 a.m.

    Sometimes it's an "act of love". But painting with a broad brush assuming it's always an act of love is inherently inaccurate.

    Sometimes it's an act of love. Sometimes an act of desperation. Sometimes an act of defiance. Sometimes an act of ignorance (they don't know our laws, been told it's the wild-west in America and anything is OK). Etc.

    We can't just paint with the same broad-brush and assume it's all an "act of love".

    ====

    Whether it's an act of love or just an illegal act... it's still illegal.

    I know letting emotion take sway helps the heart, but it doesn't satisfy justice. And if justice is optional... do we really have ANY laws?

    Sometimes robbery is an "act of love" (a father who can't wants to save his family from financial ruin). Sometimes dealing drugs is an "Act of love" (for a father who has no other skills and can make a TON of money doing this business they believe hurts no one and helps the addicts). Even murder can be an "Act of love".

    But without justice... there is no rule-of-law...

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    April 10, 2014 9:58 a.m.

    Those who wait in line and come legally also love their families. Should those who come here illegally be allowed to have better access to our country simply because they happen to live next door and can sneak across the border? I think not.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 9:59 a.m.

    Yes,

    So is robbing a bank to help your children.

    ------------
    ------------

    So is robbing from your neighbor if you use the money for a good cause

    ---------
    ---------

    Isn't it ironic(and hypocritical) that liberals scream when companies send jobs overseas and yet they're ok with illegal immigrants taking americans jobs.

    The end result is the same - law abiding Americans lose jobs to other countries.

    -----------

    The only difference of course is that illegal immigration is well, illegal.

    ----------------

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 10, 2014 10:01 a.m.

    When is a crime not a crime, when it's an act of love. I don't think so.

    The crime of illegal immigration is truly a minor crime. The real crime is the cover up of the crime of failure of our government to protect our own citizens. Businessmen by creating the problems of illegal immigrations are denying our citizens of their Constitutional right to the protection of our government.

    If we could actually believe that the politicians and their masters were concerned about family it would be one thing. But their total disregard for American families and the love that American workers have for their American families shows us that they are not telling the truth.

    If an American robs a bank for love of his family shall we excuse the crime? If we allow religious businessmen to flout the law because of God, should we excuse the criminal because he says "the Devil made me do it"?

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 10, 2014 10:29 a.m.

    Even IF the original motivation to come here illegally was an "act of love"...

    It puts you in a position where you must commit many more illegal acts (almost daily) to survive here once you GET here...

    They can't WORK here (legally). So they have to break our laws every day they go to work.

    They can't get a paycheck (Legally) without submitting a SS#. They must lie... or steal an identity, or find criminals who will create false identification for them...

    Their children can't register for school without a SS# (so they have to steal one or falsify one (yet another crime).

    They can't register for health insurance (without submitting SS#). So again forced to break the law.

    They can't get a driver's license... again they are forced to break the law.

    They can't get car insurance... so again they are forced to break the law...

    ===

    It's not the way to get started as a "Good Citizen" (By breaking the laws of the country you want to join). And it puts you in a situation where you must break other laws almost daily to survive...

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    April 10, 2014 10:33 a.m.

    Considering the climate in the Republican Party these days, it took some courage for someone to stand up for immigration reform right from the get go. Hopefully this can lead to a more compassionate view of the subject. I guess we'll soon see.

  • Brer Rabbit Spanish Fork, UT
    April 10, 2014 10:44 a.m.

    Without interior enforcement including the punishment of employers that hire illegal labor, the border cannot be defended or secured, unless the border patrol is ordered to shoot on sight border violators. The same can be said about illegal drug interior enforcement.

    With the exception of those convicted of a serious felony or who have been previously ordered deported interior enforcement of immigration law is almost zero. The Administration is now counting those caught at the border and removed back across the border in their deportation statistics. Only about 2 percent of the non-criminals or those previously deported are now being deported. In addition employer enforcement is also nearly zero.

    The way it is now is similar to not punishing shoplifters and also allowing them to keep the stolen goods. If that were to happen shoplifting laws could not be enforced. That is exactly why immigration enforcement is in chaos both at the border and the interior.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 10, 2014 10:57 a.m.

    Chris isn't it also ironic that the majority of those who hire illegal immigrants are those like Sheldon Adelson that support republicans? I agree with you calling out liberals for their hypocrisy when it comes to this situation, but I don't understand why you don't call out the far right who take advantage of illegal immigrant cheap labor and at the same time clamor for the need to secure our boarders. Is one form of hypocrisy (republican) ok but another (democrat) not ok?

  • Old Farmer Croydon, UT
    April 10, 2014 11:16 a.m.

    You cant deport millions of people. Figure out which ones we would like to keep, (the good hard working ones with families) and deport the ones we don't want, (criminals, gangsters and dope dealers). Give green cards to the ones who get to stay, and have all employers verify the status of those they hire. But first...secure the border better. Lets get it done and move on.

  • Linus Bountiful, UT
    April 10, 2014 11:22 a.m.

    Can anyone explain why everyone who favors amnesty uses the euphemism "Immigration Reform?" I'm not in favor of amnesty, and yet I thought I was in favor of Immigration Reform. They have me confused. Here is what I'm for: Obedience to law! There is a preciously true statement inscribed in granite above the entrance of the Ray County Courthouse in Richmond, Missouri. It reads, "Obedience to law is liberty." That is what I'm for. If we are to be a charitable nation that invites all who "act in love," then open the doors without tax-funded freebies and entitlements that over-burden America with staggering debt. Immigrants should contribute; not suck life-blood.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    April 10, 2014 11:23 a.m.

    FT
    Who says all on the right wing want to send everyone home? The GOP has been open to negotiations concerning immigration, but they want the border secure first, but dems absolutely refuse to go along with a secure border first approach.

    I think you would admit I am hard right, but even I do not espouse deporting the 11 million illegals already here. I adamantly oppose giving them a path to citizenship, but could see a path to legal residency. Now is that just a desire to gain political capital?

    The Book of Mormon tells the story of a group of people being murdered by their own people because of their beliefs – they flee to another country looking for protection (former enemies), vowing to be slaves if need be. Surely this would be because they loved their families, but they WAITED OUTSIDE THE BORDERS for permission before entering – they do not protest in the city center and say, “we are here, deal with us!” they entered LEGALLY.

  • across the sea Topeno, Finland
    April 10, 2014 11:36 a.m.

    An act of love - would be to make hiring illegals illegal
    An act of love - would be creating a QUEST WORKER system and legalizing work in the US
    An act of love - would be realizing that MOST just want to work, earn and go back home! NOT to immigrate and stay.
    An act of love - is allowing foreign labor retain contact with family and loved ones, by allowing them the right to cross the border - and return. If they work in the country, pay taxes, etc. allow them to love their families!
    Everything else is creating another 20 million illegals every 10 years...

    Sadly looks like there's elections comng and politicians fishing for votes - and that is not "an act of love".

    Make a law to punishhiring illegal labor, Force employers to process each worker as a quest laborer, pay fir the license and make the worker legal. In time, if the worker wants, he can apply for permanent resudency.

  • Joey D WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    April 10, 2014 11:41 a.m.

    On man is above the law!

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 10, 2014 11:41 a.m.

    Fred44,
    What evidence do you have that "the majority of those who hire illegal immigrants are those like Sheldon Adelson that support republicans"?

    Is it more than just partisan prejudice and your partisan assumption that anybody who owns a business... is a Republican?

    Is it based on anything real?

    ===

    Democrats own businesses too. In Utah and outside Utah.

    Democrats work at businesses. Democrats hire people.

    You don't need to be a Republican to be in business... you don't need to be a Republican to hire an illegal alien (knowingly or unknowingly).

    What proof is there that only Republicans hire illegal aliens (in Utah or in America in general)??

    ====

    Do only Republicans seek cheep labor?

    Democrat businessmen hire people for the lowest wage they can as well.
    You probably have this false partisan notion that Democrats hire people for the highest wage they can.

    Because we all know... Democrats are "good"... and Republicans are "bad"...

    ===

    Bush is a "Republican". His "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" bill centered on e-verify of citizenship for all businesses.

    If all Republicans want is cheep illegal labor... why would he propose that??

    And why would Democrats vote against it?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    April 10, 2014 12:40 p.m.

    It's an act of love ...until your town goes bankrupt and your taxes sky rocket to support the entitlements gifted to illegals or .... until the violent crime from our friends across the southern border hits your town. Yes nothing like a dose of reality to wake folks up. Of course its an act of love and desperation to cross into the US and grab all the free stuff but who is paying for all that free stuff? Illegals? Nope - remember they pay no taxes - they just collect the free health care and free education and food stamps and on and on..... Ask Californians how they feel about being so 'loving' for all these decades as they harbored all the illegals. They are broke and their crime rate due to illegals can be seen best in the gangs of LA. Yes - all you need is love....and trillions of extra dollars....

  • SLars Provo, UT
    April 10, 2014 12:44 p.m.

    When are we going to stop enforcing all laws "out of compassion". When are we going to admit that not enforcing the laws hurts more people than it helps. There are reasons countries have immigration laws.

    I think we all agree that 11.5 million people (32 million in 10 years according to the congressional budget office) is too many to even consider. That's the population of Canada. We have one option to stop this insanity by enforcement. Anything else just prolongs the problem. We need to stop talking about amnesty and compassion, it just encourages more people to come here illegally.

    We need to tell them that they will experience much unnecessary hardship if they come here illegally, and the American taxpayer will no longer bail them out.

    "While some immigration stories are interesting tales of personal struggle, the failure of deceptive legislation that would grant amnesty is a national indicator that legality must not be based on convenience or individual circumstance. When it is, everyone expects to be the exception and the rule of law crumbles into meaninglessness." --Arturo Morales-Llan founder of Legal Immigrants for Immigration Law Enforcement.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 10, 2014 12:44 p.m.

    This is many problems in one. It has many facets.... which require many solutions (not just one). If you see it from just one perspective... you can't solve the other parts.

    Marxist thinks its just a Labor issue.
    Some think its just about compassion.
    Some think its just about rule-of-law.
    Some think its just evil Republicans.

    It's all the above. If you can't see that... you will never see the solution, even if there is a solution. Because you can only see your narrow focus on your button issue.

    ===

    IMO we need to find a way for people can live in this country with honor, dignity, and integrity. Hiding from the government you want to embrace you, violating that country's laws daily, and trying to fly under the radar your whole life... is no life at all.

    Expecting the country and the people who's laws you are breaking daily to embrace you is not rational.

    Some people think they have no option but to break the law... we need to provide an option. But I think we have. IF providing legal options doesn't work... what can we do??

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    April 10, 2014 12:45 p.m.

    Re: "Yes, they broke the law," Bush said. "But it's not a felony. It's an act of love."

    Well, actually, it quite often is a felony. Re-entry after deportation or voluntary departure is a felony. Only the original illegal entry is a misdemeanor.

    There may be a few cases where the illegal entry is an act of love. Much more often, it's an act of economic self-interest.

    Even assuming you can find one of those rare misdemeanor acts of love, however, it's the height of hypocrisy to suggest sainthood for illegals while pummeling petty thieves and embezzlers, DUIs, assailants and batterers, small-time drug pushers and abusers, etc., etc.

    Some of them may act out of love, as well.

    I suppose, though, the truth wouldn't have the impact on the low information voters Jeb was hoping for. So he lied. Of course, misdirection and lack of candor are tactics employed by all politicians, of all political stripe. Jeb is just not as practiced as most, hasn't perfected that Clinton finger wag, for example, so he comes off sounding sappy and not credible.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    April 10, 2014 1:21 p.m.

    across the sea
    We already have a guest worker program, in fact we have several. In 2011 we let in 3.2 million people on work visas (good for three years average). At a time when we had 20 million Americans looking for full time work. Plus we gave out 1.2 million green cards, more than the rest of the world combined.

    There is no good reason for people to break our immigration laws. Mexico has the 12th best economy in the world, and just surpassed Japan as the number one car importer to the United States. Their unemployment the past several years has been better than the USA. The idea their starving is wrong, they have several food stamp type programs, Progresa, Diconsa, Fidelist, Liconsa, Dif, etc.

    Not enforcing our immigration laws, with pressure from the huge business lobby, show a decline in America of morality, honesty and doing what's right.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    April 10, 2014 1:25 p.m.

    Arguing family separation over criminal activity is a waste of time. When do we start making everyone responsible for their actions?

    Thomas Sowell said: Let's go back to square one. The purpose of American immigration laws and policies is not to be either humane or inhumane to illegal immigrants. The purpose of immigration laws and policies is to serve the national interest of this country. There is no inherent right to come live in the United States, in disregard of whether the American people want you here. Nor does the passage of time confer any such right retroactively.

    The majority of the top 10 richest voting districts in the country vote Democratic. The idea that all businessmen are Republicans is incorrect.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 1:32 p.m.

    One of the things that discourages me most about the immigration debate is how it (inevitably)turns into an "R" vs. "D" issue.

    Its not.

    Conservatives like myself disown the likes of Jeb Bush, John McLame,et. al.who are pandering ONLY to smarmy lobbyists who are contributing huge $$$ on behalf of employers who don't want to employ LEGAL Americans and save a buck or two.
    I HOPE I have the support of democrats in my thinking.

    On the other hand, democrats SAY they want a higher minimum wage. The minimum wage WILL go up in a natural fashion IF all the "under the table" and/or illegal workers are sent home.

    At the same time we'll be saving (100 billion by some estimates)dollars to spend on our OWN unemployed, job training, better schools, etc. Don't democrats also want that?

    Lets secure the border first. Then, start arresting and heavily fining employers who hire illegal trespassers. After that, lets see how many illegal trespassers are still left, and do some VERY comprehensive studies (NOT La Raza studies) about our remaining trespassers and deal
    with them in OUR best interests.
    NOT theirs.

  • tenx Santa Clara, UT
    April 10, 2014 1:34 p.m.

    An act of love is letting those who wait in line for 12 years and submit untold number of documents, pay fees, travel back and forth to a embassy (studying English while waiting) and then when approved come to the USA as many have before them and become AMERICANS and a honest citizen. Sneaking across the border to get ahead of those waiting for 12 years is really dishonest and rude. My compassion is for those in line that I have personally seen (while I worked in 24 different countries) waiting patiently to complete their dream.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    April 10, 2014 1:36 p.m.

    "The wife of a deployed U.S. soldier holds their son. She entered the U.S. legally but overstayed her visa."

    The spouse and child of a US citizen is covered by one of the three Obama illegal immigration waivers.

  • freedomingood provo, Utah
    April 10, 2014 2:15 p.m.

    I agree, yet Jeb comes to this debate years late with ulterior motives of running for president or tempering the vitriol of the party for the presidential run in 2016. I think he knows this won't fly with HIS party so I'm curious what his angle is.

    The one thing I can remember agreeing with Bush Jr about was immigration reform. It didn't fly with republicans then either.

  • YouAreKidding Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 2:19 p.m.

    Simply put, this is-like so many other things-is not about "love" or "jobs" or "family". It is about personal responsibility. When someone breaks the law, there are always unintended consequences; just ask the guy who gets thrown in jail and taken away from his wife and kids because he was caught with marijuana, using it for his own, personal reasons. So, should we keep drug users out of jail because they will be taken away from their families? I think not.

    This all boils down to personal responsibility. If someone comes into this (or any other country) illegally, there is a penalty to be paid. And, yes, that penalty is paid not only by the perpetrator, but also by his or her family.

    Sadly, what we are seeing in our society today is a breakdown, or outright elimination, of personal responsibility. Education pushes on to the next teacher students that don't know how to read or write. Our president violates the law and thumbs his nose at the Constitution and no one does anything about it. Why should this be any different?

  • techpubs Sioux City, IA
    April 10, 2014 3:18 p.m.

    In Texas they staged a demonstration outside the LBJ Library while Obama was there. One of the participants was concerned that his father was being deported for the 4th time. He feels his father is a good law-abiding man who deserves to be allowed to stay even though his subsequent re-entries without permission are considered felonies.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    April 10, 2014 4:26 p.m.

    Wowzers!

    Look and the harsh judgement by some of these commentors.

    I can only hope that God will judge them with the same met and measure,
    and harshness that they themselves are showing others.

    Huh?
    What's that?

    Oh ya,
    God has aleady told us that was precisely how he was going to judge them.

    Good is what I say.
    God really and truely is Just.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 4:34 p.m.

    Re: "Sending them home is not going to happen."

    That is a false argument. Deportation is in fact possible.

    It would not be necessary to deport all of them at once. You let them know that instead of being immune to the law, they in fact are subject to it and to substantial penalties if caught in this country illegally; for example, permanent confiscation of vehicles, on the spot.

    Most would then self-deport and would take their children (and their vehicles) with them. They only are here in such vast numbers because they know that America is a pushover that is unwilling to defend its own sovereignty. Let them know that American no longer is a pushover; most will then return home.

    Then we deport the rest, every last one of them, as they are caught.

    We bring back good-old fashioned raids.

    The notion that "You cant deport millions of people" is a lie, designed to encourage Americans to SURRENDER their nation to persons who have no allegiance nor respect for it whatsoever. You don't legalize such persons. That is unwise.

    Deportation very much is possible. All that is needed is a smidgen of national integrity.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 5:16 p.m.

    Re: "IMO we need to find a way for people can live in this country with honor, dignity, and integrity."

    There already is: The legal system. There really is no way around it. The line really needs to be drawn at the law. Our responsibility is to this nation's citizens.

    This means upholding and enforcing the law which means penalizing and then deporting anyone who refuses to return home in peace on their own. Deportation is neither cruel nor inhumane. Disappointing and inconvenient, perhaps, but neither cruel nor inhumane, despite persistent propaganda to the contrary.

    We bring upon ourselves and upon our children the consequences of our own, willful actions. That is the message America should be sending. Then illegal immigration would be sharply curtailed, and would even reverse itself.

    It is not our responsibility to find a way for persons in this country illegally to stay. Rather they have a responsibility to put their affairs in order, return to their lawful countries of residence, take their children with them, and then live lives of truth and honor, which includes teaching their children correct principles and setting a good example for them.

    That is honor, dignity, and integrity.

  • kaysvillecougar KAYSVILLE, UT
    April 10, 2014 6:00 p.m.

    I understand the d-news editorial and agree to a degree. I lived in Mexico for 3 1/2 yrs. and had people close to me immigrate to the US and overstay their visas. They were only trying to better their family situation. But at the same time I think you do a disservice to the millions who want to come to our country and love their children just as much. They are the ones who should be rewarded. Our system is broken and I sure wish there was more courage in Washington, because clearly this is where this needs to be fixed. Our community organizer in chief seems to be too busy checking to make sure everyone is making the same amount of money and slapping the hands of those making too much. If he and the congress could swallow their own ambitions and do what is right this could be solved.

  • samhill Salt Lake City, UT
    April 10, 2014 6:12 p.m.

    This editorial continues the false dichotomy of compassion versus law enforcement. One does not preclude or exclude the other.

    One of the biggest reasons that people from Latin America, primarily Mexico, are so eager to come to the U.S., legally or otherwise, is because of the relatively greater opportunity, prosperity and safety found here. Everyone of those advantages is present here because of the relatively greater regard societal structure found here, particularly, the rule of law.

    Consequently, if we **really** want to show compassion for those seeking a better place to live, it MUST begin by retaining the qualities that **make** this place more desirable in the first place.

    Therefore, the most compassionate course of action is to preserve our relatively greater regard for the rule of law and properly enforce them, including immigration laws.

    In the meantime, it is also **extremely** important that we reform immigration laws and policies, along with reforming/eliminating a bunch of other examples of governmental ineptitude, inefficiencies, ineffectiveness and outright corruption.

    In short, we need to do more to keep our country a place where we (and others) would like to live.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    April 10, 2014 8:23 p.m.

    anti-liar 4:34 p.m.

    Then you must love President Obama. Deportations have actually gone up while he's been in office.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    April 10, 2014 11:04 p.m.

    "In dragging down wages, immigration currently shifts about $160 billion per year from workers to employers." The Rich get richer and the Poor get poorer. -- Harvard Economist George Borjas

    Don’t steal stuff. Theft destroys social relations

    "The toleration of illegal immigration undermines all of our labor; it rips at the social fabric. It's a race to the bottom. The one who plays by the rules is penalized... a guest worker program guarantees wages will never go up, and there is no way American citizens can compete with guest workers." --Vernon Briggs, Cornell University labor economics professor.

    It should cost more to break the law than to obey it.

    To make it's "record deportations" claim, the administration takes cases that would have previously been counted as "returns" and counts them as "removals." Then, they compare their removals and returns to the number of removals under previous administrations.

    Is there a reason we should love those who break our laws, and hate those who follow them? Rewarding criminal activity does not work, deterrents are the only way to stop illegal activity.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    April 10, 2014 11:27 p.m.

    Using a guilt trip to stop enforcement of immigration laws doesn't work on me.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 4:48 a.m.

    Re: KJB1 "Then you must love President Obama. Deportations have actually gone up while he's been in office."

    Wrong. Genuine deportations -- that is to say, deportations from the nation's interior -- have gone WAY down under Obama.

    Simultaneously, Obama is on record as admitting that his administration uses a "deceptive" statistical method: He counts border turnaways as deportations -- something previous administrations have not done.

    Thus his supposedly high deportation numbers are smoke and mirrors, that is all.

    But I congratulate you on your effort to discredit me and my words by false association.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 6:04 a.m.

    "KJB!" No they haven't. Even the amnesty advocates aren't still repeating that lie. You should do more research before you post!!

    Ultimately the immigration amnesty battle comes down to a battle between those of us who would like to see actual LEGAL Americans find jobs and those who ........well......couldn't CARE LESS.
    Obviously SOME businesses are concerned only about their business' bottom line and don't have much in the way of business ethics, not to mention BREAKING THE LAW, - on a daily basis.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 11, 2014 7:41 a.m.

    If you don't want people here illegally fine and jail those who hire them. If there are no jobs, most will not come, end of story. So many are concerned about those who commit illegal acts by coming to this country, but have no concern about those who hire people who are here illegally.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2014 8:51 a.m.

    KJB1 - Its clear you you don't understand how current and past presidencies have measured deportations.

    Good try, but you've just been exposed

  • Jim Cobabe Provo, UT
    April 11, 2014 10:27 a.m.

    I see this mischaracterization too often. Bush is conflating two ideals.

    Family love, and desiring to provide for the family are indeed laudable and to be commended. But illegal immigration is not. We cannot legitimately justify ignoring the rule of law by special pleading.

    The rationale for overlooking illegal acts that seem motivated by good intentions approaches a dangerous slippery slope. What other kinds of law-breaking will we subsequently justify with similar thinking?

    Laws serve a purpose. If our perception is that the intent of the law is superceded by a greater purpose, perhaps it might justify changing the law. But flagrant violation and civil disobedience are only called for in the most extreme cases.

    Ultimately it is a deep personal respect for the law that helps ensure the freedoms enjoyed in this country that make it so desirable. Assuming the prerogative to ignore certain laws that seem inconvenient or repressive to the would-be immigrants threatens the establishment of the very foundations of freedom that make this country attractive.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    April 12, 2014 4:44 p.m.

    The desnews is right, Immigration is an act of love, even illegal immigration at times.

    How many here refused to accept the loving sacrifice of the Mormon Pioneers because they broke Mexican law in coming here illegally without permission? On the contrary we celebrate them every 24th of July and that is as it ought to be.

    Given the history of how this country got much of its land, we aren't in a position to insist that others, especially the Mexicans follow our immigration laws. The United States was never respectful of other peoples rights when it came to our taking of their land. Indian lands, Mexican land, Hawaii land. Even when we had treaties with the Indians that we forced them into, if gold was found on that land we then went back on the treaty. Our forebears were not always highly honorable people.

    As Americans we have a great heritage left to us by our fore-bearers. However we also have bad heritage that we must deal with. That includes that we don't have clear title to much or most of the land that we claim. Wish it weren't so, but that is the reality.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    April 12, 2014 5:32 p.m.

    This looks like a diversion to stop people from talking about how we can enforce the laws, make people come here legally, and stop business from hiring people illegally.

    When we start seeing articles that address the real subject, we will then make progress towards stopping this illegal activity.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    April 12, 2014 7:31 p.m.

    cjb
    Mexico claimed this country for 20 years, based on the fact they won Independence from Spain. Your argument is another diversion, by your way of thinking, Spain still owns Mexico, or we could go back further and give Mexico to the "native Americans" who came here from somewhere else. Mexico had no immigration laws at the time or settlements in the US when the pioneers came here. We won the war, just like Mexico won it's war with Spain, and we even paid Mexico for the land, did Mexico pay Spain?

    It's a silly argument to divert the conversation from an enforcement solution.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    April 13, 2014 9:10 a.m.

    Re prelax

    If you claim Spain owns Mexico, that is a matter for Spain and Mexico to resolve between themselves (or not).

    In either case,we don't have clear/complete title to that land.