It would be interesting to learn how many were paid in some way to protest and
to spoil the sacredness of Temple Square. Excommunicate those who are LDS
women. They want to bring down the Church, change the Church, tell God how
outdated He and His ideas are, as if they know something He doesn't???
"Counsel not thy God."
It is sad that there are sisters that do not realize that they are half of a
whole and the way to being whole (or having equality to a man) is temple
marriage not ordination.The search for 'equality' has taken much from
men while supposedly giving women more. Men lost their male-only gyms for
example while women retained their female-only gyms. My first question to the
Ordain Women people is - have you asked of God? Then it would be - if you
received revelation that women should be ordained then why has not the Prophet?
When the Prophet lets us know that God has let him know that women are to be
ordained, then and only then will I give my full-hearted support to the
ordination of women. I pray that these sisters realize that the ways of the
world are not the ways of God and that when we decided to dictate to God then we
stand to lose our eternal exaltation.
This is such a non issue. Like the vast majority of LDS women, I
follow the Prophet of God and have no need to demonstrate or beg to be ordained.
As a woman I have no shame or insecurity about my role in the
Church or my value in God's eyes. I know I am equal to men and have no
need to be ordained in order to feel valuable.
These women need to reread the scriptures re Korah and his minions in Numbers
16, where they claimed that by virtue of their lineage they too had right to the
High Priesthood. Moses told them they erred and tomorrow to bring their censors
to the tabernacle and offer their sacrifice. They did, The Lord was unhappy with
the assumption and opened the Earth and were swallowed some two hundred fifty.
Their friends also suffered with their death to the tune of more than 20,000,
tents, livestock, families etal. I should think these sisters and their
male supporters think thru way The Lord operates his church, not at the behest
of protestors or rebels, but the way He wants it run. Don't be found
kicking against the thorns.
They must not have been listening to the talks today. They were pretty clear
that the Lord isn't concerned with keeping up with the times.
I am very impressed with Elder Oak's talk in the Priesthood session; it
should be required reading for all women. He completely explains the rights of
Thank you, Elder Oaks, for a fantastic talk addressing the value and importance
of women. I hope these women paid heed to his counsel, along with all other
members of the church.
"“We feel like ordination is the only thing that will bring us to full
equality with our brethren in the church"...Sadly sister,
Priesthood is not about "full equality", it is about our duty in life to
God and our families, the ONLY person who will dictate what to do or not, how
and when is GOD.IF we really consider that we are members of the
true church and we believe that is guided by Jesus himself, we should not
question him or God about it. Sometimes could be challenging to do something
after questioning why or how, WE need to work on that.Jesus himself
is at the head of this church, we are not, if we keep our promises and we follow
him, He will bless our lives on what we really need.Enjoy the
How is this for a rebuke towards the apostate group of women clamoring to get a
peek into the priesthood session. What would you all say if we men tried
getting into the General Women's Meeting? You would all scream at your
super-soprano best and stomp your pretty feet until your high-heeled shoes break
until every last male who isn't a part of the Church's First
Presidency is chased out of the meeting. It would be like a man trying to work
out at Curves. You of the 200+ women trying to get into the priesthood meeting
should make sure that there aren't any of your bishops and stake presidents
watching you or you could face a church disciplinary court for your apostate
conduct. And you men who are found amongst the female group can be held
accountable for such actions as well. I am just doing what is said in the
Doctrine and Covenants where it says that 'those who are warned are to warn
I think this issue has more to do with faith. Does this group of LDS women not
have faith that Jesus is at the head of the LDS Church? Do they not have the
faith necessary to follow a living prophet? Do they not have faith in the
organization and workings of the church. Do they not have the faith that the
women leaders (Relief Society, Young Women and Primary) have input with the
brethren at the head of Christ's church. We as women of the LDS Church have
more power, voice and influence than our counterparts IF we will work together
in the work of the Lord. We also can do more damage, stuff-up ears, and hinder
the work when we are battling against ourselves. Sisters of the LDS church, it
is time to look in the mirror and see where we stand and with whom we stand
with. A small group of disgruntled women, or the living prophet of God.
I think these women have a good case and will someday prevail. The LDS Church
has a history of reversing teachings and doctrines that most members thought
were permanent. Happened in the late 19th century and again in the 1970s.
It's not unforeseeable that it might happen again.
If you have an issue with the church, you ask God to tell the prophet what to
do; you don't ask the prophet to tell God what to do. I most certainty
don't need priesthood ordination to feel good about myself. I'm
embarrassed to see these women baring their insecurities to the world and
calling it "feminism".
To ask respectfully for someone to consider something is not a problem. When
that consideration is given but you aren't happy about the result and then
move from asking to insisting, that is a problem. Considering something is
quite different than agreeing with and acting. Ladies-- your request has been
considered. Now it's time to accept and continue in faith or reject and
move on with your life outside the Church. The choice is yours.
This is sad to me. If they love the church like they say they do, they would
follow the prophet. They would have listened when they were asked to go to
another spot and not present themselves. Men were made by God to be different
from women. Women different from men. Neither sex is superior or inferior,
rather they have different rolls in this life and each gender is to support and
sustain one another. Revelation has not been given that women should hold the
priesthood. If they love the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, they
would follow the teachings of the church. If they don't like what is being
done in this church and want to make their own rules, equality issues, etc. then
maybe they should start their own church and see how far the priesthood would
get them then. It's just sad that they want to be apart of this church but
don't want to abide by it's teachings. They obviously love the
attention they are getting. It is just sad to me that they won't even
listen to the prophet. Sad.
Elder Oaks made it very clear tonight that the First Presidency and Quorum of
the Twelve can exercise the keys of the priesthood only as the Lord directs. It
will do no good to protest for something that the Lord hasn't authorized.
Those in the Ordain Women group would better use their time in fasting and
prayer to Him whom they worship, rather than build public disapproval of the
Lord's church and servants.
If these women don't believe the leaders represent God, -they need to find
Sad. Just sad.
To all LDS women (and men) protesting: Gain a testimony that the Lord is in
As a female member of the LDS church, i personally feel very blessed by our
current preisthood organization. we could be like other religions I suppose,
where the select few hold the preisthood and the only ones that have it in their
homes are the pastors family. That would make me sad though. Our Heavenly Father
had seen fit to bless us with having unprecedented acces to the preisthood by
having it in our own home. in every home. This is unique to our church, and is
is part of what makes us such a wonderful religion. No change needed.
I find the reality of the OW movement to be narcissitic in gaining attention to
itself and the fundamental lack of knowledge regarding the doctrines of the
Church on the part of the subject women in the OW.
Elder Oaks declared, “In the eyes of God, whether in the Church or in the
family, women and men are equal, with different responsibilities.”
@ipr: "I am very impressed with Elder Oak's talk in the Priesthood
session; it should be required reading for all women. He completely explains the
rights of women."From Wikipedia- "Mansplaining is...the act
of a man speaking to a woman with the assumption that she knows less than he
does about the topic being discussed on the basis of her gender... Mansplaining
is different from other forms of condescension because mansplaining is rooted in
the assumption that, in general, a man is likely to be more knowledgeable than a
woman."Words fail me.
While these women stood in the rain agitating for something they don't
need, I sat at home with my husband, son, and son-in-law enjoying the Priesthood
session of conference and listening to a very well done talk by Elder Oaks about
how women already have the blessings of the Priesthood and work in the church
with Priesthood authority. I find it very sad that their misunderstanding of the
doctrine of the Priesthood may lead them to a point where they find themselves
outside of the church and living without the blessings of the Priesthood that
are already theirs. And, by the way, these women don't speak
for all of us. They don't really speak for any of us. I pity them for their
willingness to embarrass themselves in this way.
it's interesting that some of these women who protested are not members of
the church. I wonder how many in this group were members, because I personally
know not even one woman who feels that she needs to hold the priesthood. It
makes me wonder if a large number of these 200 women were non-members. They
announced earlier that 500 women were going to march. It seems that they are
using numbers to make it look as if a large amount of members are disgruntled
about this. Those who are have a basic misunderstanding of how revelation from
God guides the Church.
I am a female church member who lives outside of Utah. I am not a member of
Ordain Women. I realize that I am missing out on most of the local media hype,
so perhaps I don't see the issue as others, but I fail to see the problem
in allowing these women (and men) onto temple square grounds. Why would the
church's PR department ask them to go elsewhere? So what if they want to
request tickets? (Actually, so what if a few women attended the priesthood
session? I don't believe it is some big mystery. It would also take a lot
of the air out of this "protest.") It kind of seems like the PR
department is making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill.
While I have no problem with sincere questioning, I do take issue with
rebellion. If these sisters had respected the direct request to NOT protest on
temple grounds, and simply moved it across the street to designated areas, I
would have considered that maybe they really ARE just questioning. But when the
deliberately do what they were very specifically, yet politely and lovingly
asked NOT to do, all I see is rebellion. What I keep finding myself
asking is,what in the WORLD makes these sisters think that the Lord would want
to ordain them, when they keep proving that will NOT follow instruction and
counsel and are being deliberately disobedient? If you ask me, they're only
proving why *THEY* specifically shouldn't be ordained, even if the Lord DID
reveal new policies regarding the ordination of women. If my husband or son were
given specific intstruction from the church and they deliberately did the
opposite,even calling public ATTENTION to their rebellion, they wouldn't be
worthy to hold the priesthood either.
Hannah Wheelwright is a BYU student??? I don't understand how you could be
a BYU student and be invlolved in this kind of stuff.............
Anyone remember Sonia Johnson? She was the radical feminist who did battle with
the church (while she was member) back in the 1970s regarding the "Equal
Rights Amendment". While the immediate goal here is different, I could see
things playing out essentially the same way. Ms. Kelly (founder of
Ordain Women) needs to go read the Wikipedia article on Ms. Johnson and do some
soul searching. She professes to love the church, but does she really want to
continue along this path?
I don't feel oppressed. I think its dumb that they want it, and are pushing
so hard for it. It a lot or responsibility too. Men and women are different for
a reason. This whole thing is just sad and embarrassing, but I guess its to be
expected in a world that is becoming more liberal and totally abandoning
tradition... tradition that actually works as is. PLUS its the way God set
forth, and usually that is the best way to go. Am I right?
Kate Kelly does not speak for me, nor for the good, faithful Latter-Day Saint
women I know. I have a testimony of the Lord's church and the way in which
it is administered.
I find it bothersome that this news outlet insists on using words such as
"march" and "protest" in describing the OW action, which I
understand from more objective (?) outlets to be a rather peaceful thing. Lots
of unkind judgement here^, people. I'm not personally invested in the
issue, but it greatly saddens me to see brothers and sisters being so unkind and
exclusionary to their own "family."
Think about it Oregon Walker. This group is addicted to attention and fighting,
unfortunately like a lot of people. They continue to make a scene and want it
to keep going on the temple grounds for the cameras. Once inside the conference
center, one of their next steps would possibly be to disrupt the meeting.
General conference was disrupted back around 1980 by Sonia Johnson's group.
Quite frankly the OW group sells themselves far short of 99% of LDS women. We
men watch in awe as we witness the 99% serve the Savior so selflessly. We watch
them minister to their sisters in need with no fanfare, far away from public
view. Happily, my dear wife accepts me in spite of my many short-comings.
The OW movement discredits women as they obviously do not understand and value
the CRUCIAL role women have in todays world, church and family. In their own
words. That role is not equal to males' role. How sad to feel that way.Ordination for blacks came because it was the right time, not because of
pressure from social development. I know many would argue that point but you
discredit Who and how this church is ran.See Acts 10 and 11. Even
Gentiles were denied priesthood and other things, who knows why. God runs the
show, not us.In the end, stay faithful. Go to church, take the
sacrament and take "no" for an answer. When the Ordain Women movement
does not produced it's desired outcome do not find yourself outside the
church looking in, because then its only you who misses out.
I am not a member of the LDS Church, but have many friends that are. It seems to
me as an outsider, if you have a question or conflict with the Priesthood, you
should take this up with the indvidual whose Priesthood it is. By protesting at
this conference, you are simply telling everyone that you do not believe that
the Priesthood is from God, but rather something that man has made up. Please
correct me if I do not understand the finer points of the LDS faith.
I believe the Lord when He says regarding His doctrine, “whether by mine
own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same” (Doctrine and
Covenants 1:38).I believe Him when He says: “seek not to
counsel the Lord, but to take counsel from his hand.” To take that
further, I am certain “that he counseleth in wisdom, and in justice, and
in great mercy, over all his works” (Jacob 4:10).I believe
that “Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention concerning
the points of my doctrine” (D&C 10:63)
So glad this post shows that not all the followers of Ordain Women are members
of our faith. If you do some research on their blog postings and tweeter feeds
you will learn they are a feminist movement that wants all women of all
religions to have the priesthood. Kate Kelly is a small cog in a larger wheel.
The misguided women of our faith following her don't realize what they are
getting sucked into. The wearing of purple started with the Catholic branch
demonstrating to get the priesthood. Their leadership is not LDS they don't
see or understand prophets, and revelation at all. That is why being told no
means nothing to them.
Kate Kelley - A prophet, seer and revelator has spoken tonight (Elder Oaks).
Very carefully, and I do mean very carefully listen to his words. Men and women
are equal with different responsibilities.The fact that you think
you need ordination to the priesthood to feel equal does not make it so. The Lord has spoken on the matter. You say you love the
church. If so abide in its teaching. Simply put.Take
your protest outside temple square. You dishonor the church and the Lord you so
profusely say you love by totally ignoring the churches request to take your
protest off church property.
All I can say about this OW movement is that "they have their reward".
You either have a testimony of a living Prophet or not. End of discussion.
Ms Kelly needs to go read about Miriam, the sister of Moses, who rebelled
against the Prophet... the story is found in Numbers 12:1-15... I believe that
she, too, wanted to hold priesthood keys... she was certainly disgruntled with
the way Moses was running things... my advice to Ms Kelly is read, weep and
repent quickly, before the Lord reminds her exactly who is in charge...
iprSpanish Fork, UT"I am very impressed with Elder Oak's
talk in the Priesthood session; it should be required reading for all women. He
completely explains the rights of women."As I recall he referred
to women as an "appendage".
You are suggesting the leadership knows something these women and men do not.
The role of leadership isn't to protect the status quo. You are suggesting
God isn't speaking through those asking to be heard. I'm guessing
there will be disagreement for quite some time. I don't understand
excommunicating a person for following their agency.
Want to hold the Priesthood? Give your husband a hug.
Pitiful, judgmental and self righteous comments!!!It is possible
that these women are wrong.... may be! However, they are children of God,
endowed with the Holy Spirit as their guide and their right to personal
revelation.Those of you who so eagerly criticized, have you
considered that these women may be acting impulsed by the will of the Lord? and
may be they are the voice that claims in the desert preparing the path to
positive things to come?They are intelligent brave beings who think,
question and ask. For the rest of us, we have our commandments: Love
everybody and don't judge.
@Stormwalker: Elder Oaks was not "mansplaining" the issue. He stood as
a prophet and told both men and women how things are in the eyes of the Lord. I
love his message. Please read it or listen to it on the internet.
Let them all be called as Scoutmasters first. That'll solve the problem.
Oh if all of their energies were channeled into missionary work, humanitarian
aid or the other efforts to build the church and help mankind; how much better
would the world be? We need them, but we need to remember to be kind to them.
I think it borders on defamation to claim (as some are doing) that the women are
being paid to protest. There is not a shred of evidence that this is the case.
And for those who claim that the current way things are represents
some eternal law, consider this quote: Apostle N. Eldon Tanner once stated,
“The Church has no intention of changing its doctrine on the Negro.
Throughout the history of the original Christian church, the Negro never held
the priesthood. There’s really nothing we can do to change this.
It’s a law of God.” Seattle Magazine, Dec. 1967, p. 60
I am determined to use the annoying behavior andthe misguided arguments of
these women as my opportunity to learn to dismiss negative energy from my daily
consciousness and attitudes. I will no longer read or comment on news articles
or discussions about them. This is my last statement on the matter, in public or
Why weren't the male supporters at the Priesthood session?
The fact that these women feel that they will not be "equal" until they
are ordained to the priesthood shows a lack of understanding of the principles
of the gospel. You, as a daughter of God, are already equal and eligible to
obtain every blessing, condition, etc. that are possible for each of us. If you
truly understood the contribution you could make and the profound influence for
good you could have on those around you, your considerable efforts and energy
could and would be spent in an entirely different direction. Imagine what that
$11,000 could have done for the missionary efforts of the Church of which young
faithful sisters are an increasingly important part. While I initially felt some
sympathy for your wrestle with this question about the priesthood (many people
have questions at one point or another) now I am losing patience as I hear about
your disregard for a request to stay away from Temple Square with your protest.
The following three statements (directly copied) are reportedly Kate
Kelly's responses to questions as shown on the Student Review website:I don’t know how or why the priesthood has not been extended to
women. But, I do know that we are ready and willing to receive it. We are a
church keenly invested in the concept of restoration—we want to see the
church restore women to their rightful place as leaders and priesthood
holders.I think the moment now is ripe for a full “coming
out” process for many Mormon women over the issue of ordination, myself
included. A widespread, coordinated, action-oriented movement that is inclusive
of all voices has never existed. We at Ordain Women intend to create a space for
all to publicly make their honest, respectful calls for ordination from the
Relief Society president to the radical.The ordination of women
would put us on completely equal spiritual footing with our brethren, and
nothing less will suffice.----------------She's leading others
into a precarious position. The last statement is very telling. I would hate
to be her bishop right about now!
these women, along with their spouses are on their way to Apostasy!!!!
“We feel like ordination is the only thing that will bring us to full
equality with our brethren in the church"...The adversary
continues to use critics within the church for his own purposes. This movement
isn't really about obtaining the priesthood, because ordination
wouldn't satisfy those involved.This is about the enmity that exists
between those who seek to counsel rather than be counseled.
I'm a little confused. I don't understand how these women who actively
and publicly protest against the Church, who do not sustain the Prophet and
Apostles, can retain their membership...
@Stormwalker,What happened was a Lord's Apostle explained in plain
language what the doctrine and desire of the Lord is. The fact that he is man
doesn't make it "mansplaining", it is one who has the knowledge
explaining it to another. Would the Relief Society President explaining charity
and how it never fails be "womansplaining?
I don't pretend to know the disposition of God whether he will change the
church's policy on the priesthood or not, I am content to allow God to
speak through his prophets and apostles on the point as He has promised to do
so. However, I recognize that what slcman is talking about
(reversing teachings and doctrines in the past) is not a good point of
comparison. Certainly there are things in the church that we do, not because its
based in doctrine but, because its a practical, efficient way to do things.
Other times its just tradition or done for other non doctrinal reasons. Many of
these things should be considered and changed if appropriate For example, The
tradition of who prayed in church was not doctrinal. I am encouraged that the
Brethren are considering such practices made a point to change/clarify the
policy as needed. this is a good thing.
As for the OW movement. As others have said, when the Lord say no through his
prophets and apostles we should refrain from badgering the Lord to change His
mind as if we knew better than He. If the church is true, God will speak
through His prophets on the matter. he will not change His ways simply because a
small group of people protest or the world thinks He is wrong. Sometimes the
answer is no.
If you need the priesthood to feel equal, you do not understand Heavenly Fathers
plan. When I was on my mission Loren C. Dunn spoke at a mission conference. In
encouraging elders to value women, he stated "Elders, remember that you need
the priesthood to enter the temple - the sisters do not." How sad to not
appreciate the Lord's view that a woman without the priesthood is equal to
a man holding the priesthood.The fact that they want to protest on
temple square strongly suggests that this is more about publicity.
Unfortunately we know where this road leads. I used to live in the DC area when
Sonia Johnson was battling the ERA. Needless to say, she did not get what she
wanted, her family fractured and she ended up on the feminist extreme. I hope
the Ordain Women group learns from history.
These apostate women need to relinquish their membership to the Church (as they
do not believe in it) and form their own religion with whatever beliefs they
want. If they truly had a testimony of the Church and in Jesus Christ they would
not be doing this. God does not "keep up with the times". People!!! We
are still in Biblical times! This is God's Church. You do NOT dictate to
God what is right or wrong. If you truly believe, then you follow His teachings.
If you don't believe, then you have the right to leave. no one is forcing
you to stay in the Church that you do not believe in.What's next,
infant baptism, sacrificing virgins?God is the same yesterday,
today, tomorrow. "I am Alpha and Omega" The beginning and the end.
What a misguided effort, but not surprising given the state of affairs in the
world today.This group is achieving its goal - recognition and media
coverage. Front page of MSN today reads "Meeting Turns Away Mormon
Women". I expect Good Morning America to be next with these women
momentarily getting the attention that they appear to so badly crave.What comes next,if this group does not listen to counsel of Church leaders, is
inevitably loss of church membership. What they are doing, although they
justify it otherwise, is clearly apostasy. The Lord's Church is not a
democracy with each member getting an equal vote. The Lord determines the rules
and gives us the free agency to choose to follow or not.What a high
price to pay for a few moments in the limelight.
I support these things...Because it's fun to read about in the
SLCman,Those were not a reversal of doctrine, but a change in practice.
That critical difference is exemplified in many changes in practice over the
Worried about outward appearences of being equal? Sounds like some of these
women wouldnt want to defer to or ask any man for anything. It would make them
feel "dependant" or "submissive". I wonder when they will adopt
the Chatholic practise of praying to Mary, the mother of God or to a Heavenly
Mother. No reason to let a Father tell you what to do without a Mothers
approval. On issues like this, I like a quote from O C Tanner that
the Trib printed yesterday. It stated..." But must one believe all or
nothing? Must one cut off church participation — the great source of
righteousness in one’s life and in the community, because there is some
doctrine doubted or disbelieved? Rather, is it not wisdom to begin, not with
doubts and faults, but with the simple truths and virtues one can believe, then
move on from there to others? This would be good for all of us to
The church has had women "preachers," teachers, and leaders far longer
than any other Christian church.
"I love this Church" - KellyShe obviously doesn't love
it enough. Sister Kelly, I'm sorry you are so disturbed by this issue. I
wish you peace and understanding...
The OW movement don't want to be equal, they want to control and counsel
those who are ordained to lead. People who feel that the Church is behind the
times and needs to change have little understanding of the Lords Church. I
would invite those critical of the Church as it pertains to the Priesthood,
listen to Elder Oaks talk. Those who demonstrate in Temple Square have no
respect for the sacredness of that area, and will have no respect for the
I think issues like this often do benefit from an awareness of the grass roots
membership of the Church. It is clear to me that the 1978 revelation on the
priesthood was the result of external conditions that led President Kimball to
seek the mind of the Lord. President Kimball certainly waited on the Lord for
many years before receiving the news that it was time for all worthy male
members to be able to receive the priesthood. Is it possible that women will
one day hold the priesthood? Of course it is as anyone who attends the temple
will know. Will it happen in the time frame or the way in which OW participants
think? I don't know. Will such movements cause a shift in the Church
where women's voices are given greater weight? I think so. Is that good?
Elder Ballard certainly thought it was needed 10 years ago in his GC talk. The
Lord works in mysterious ways including, I think, a small group of OW. The
challenge for many will be if he answers in a way they did not expect. That
would hold true both for those supporting OW and for those opposed.
What Mormon in her right mind wants to take on more duties, responsibilities, or
meetings? I listened to the Priesthood session because my husband had it on TV.
I could read the talks again in the Ensign. I don't envy my husband's
responsibilities, and he doesn't envy mine. Jesus said, "Take up your
cross and follow me." What could a woman do with the "cross" of the
Priesthood that she couldn't do anyway?
Sadly this reminds me of somebody who had a better idea and all that was
required was a minor change in doctrine. It was obvious to him that too many of
Heavenly Father's children would not return after this life. Just a minor
change is all that was required.When he didn't get his way, he
protested (rebelled), just like these women on Temple Square.It did
not end well for the first and it will not end well for those doing the same
For me, it comes down to this. Do you believe that your Heavenly Father loves
and values you any less than his sons either now or in the hereafter simply
because you are female? Do you believe that he has less of a reward in store for
you because you are female? I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. I just
don't believe that, I am completely convinced that I have as much value as
any of my brothers, priesthood or no priesthood. In saying that only ordination
to the priesthood will satisfy you, it seems that you are saying that right now
you believe you are less in his eyes and you are demanding to be more.Perhaps one day women will be ordained, I don't know. It truly
doesn't matter to me. In the meantime, I will not be wasting energy
worrying about whether things are "equal" or not because I believe they
@iprWhile I appreciate your belief that he is a prophet, I have a
testimony that he is a man giving his opinion.For well over a
century prophets and apostles gave all sorts of reasons that blacks could not
and would not hold the priesthood. Today, if you ask about their teachings as
prophets you'll be told that it was clearly not doctrine or revelation,
that it was just their opinion. I heard that enough times, from
official and semi-official sources, that I realized it was all opinion, not
revelation.@Jack: LOL, no. Charity is a universal concept. A
man explaining how women are so special they must always report to men, and can
never hold the highest leadership positions because they are so special and
blessed and special and they just need to be happy is mansplaining. It is
>>Those of you who so eagerly criticized, have you considered that these
women may be acting impulsed by the will of the Lord? and may be they are the
voice that claims in the desert preparing the path to positive things to
come?That would be contrary to the Lord's manner of revelation
for the Church which He has laid out. The Lord's house is a
house of order. We are entitled to receive revelation to guide us in church
operations for which we have responsibility; we're not entitled to
revelation concerning anything outside our sphere of responsibility, and only
the prophet has responsibility over the entire church. Accordingly, He
isn't going to inspire someone to agitate against Church leaders for
doctrinal changes. If doctrinal changes are needed, He'll tell the
president of the Church. The Lord doesn't need random members to protest on
Temple Square to get the job done.
They profess their love for the church; however, what about their love for the
Lord? I would like to hear their innermost feelings about their one-on-one
relationship with God.
My heart hurts reading some of the mean, hurtful comments on this feed. I know
there are many who have never felt unequal in the LDS church and do not
understand the Ordain Women Movement or even the Mormon Feminist Movement in any
way. I appreciate that. I'm glad you have had such a beautiful
experience. Please understand there are many who have not. There are many who
do not feel equal or safe. It doesn't make them bad. It doesn't make
them wrong. The prophet has not called for their excommunication, why are you?
I hope we all took to heart the words of President Monson today.
"May we begin now, this very day, to express love to all of God’s
children, whether they be our family members, our friends, mere acquaintances,
or total strangers,” he said. “As we arise each morning, let us
determine to respond with love and kindness to whatever might come our
way.” Can we all please respond with LOVE and KINDNESS
instead of the cruelty and hostility I am seeing here? Aren't we all
brothers and sisters?
Also, I believe there is some fact checking that needs to go into this article.
There were more than 500 present with the OW movement and they carried proxy
cards for over 300 more.
A prediction: Within three years they'll be blocking the entrances to the
Conference Center and chanting angry protest slogans.I've seen
all this before: Back in the late '70s and early '80s Mormon
feminists and ERA supporters like Sonia Johnson, Mary Jean Ubelgumme and others
at first loudly proclaimed their love for the church and their respect for its
leaders.However, when it became obvious the Church wasn't going
to change to suit their agenda, they ended up getting excommunicated and burning
their temple garments in public. This will likely end the same way.
My question is why weren't they wearing pants?!
Go Ladies go you are the future Rosa Parks of our great country.
Never. Going. To. Happen.
"We feel like ordination is the only thing that will bring us to full
equality with our brethren in the church,” Kate Kelly, founder of the
group Ordain Women, said in an interview with the Deseret News earlier this
week"I think this statement is very telling about the intent of
Ms Kelly and her friends. This is all about Kate - what's in it for me. The
Gospel of Jesus Christ is completely opposite from that worldly attitude.
Service to others is what The Gospel preached by Jesus Christ was all about
2000+ years ago and remains unchanged today. Recall that Jesus called 12 men to
serve as apostles when he was on the earth even though it was Mary that was
privilged to be the first to witness his ressurrection. My ways are not your
ways - my ways are higher than your ways paraphrasing from the Savior. So many
people lose their way by getting stuck in the thick of thin things. Ms Kelly is
lost in the politics of her cause - as was Sonia Johnson some 35 years ago and
the result will most likely - sadly - be the same. Hopefully Kate
will listen to Elder Oaks talk.
I must not have all the christian charity I should have because all these women
do is amuse me.
It's pretty common practice in today's world to start, and end, your
comments supporting one agenda yet fill the middle with something much
different.Ms. Kelly started and ended her comments with "love
for the church" and everything in the middle had to do with love of ones
self. The church proved in the 1800's that it could withstand
external pressure and now it will try to withstand the attack from within!!
That Ms. Kelly for helping the church gain strength.
When people think of a "priesthood," they often think of the Anglican,
Catholic, or Eastern Orthodox priesthoods, which men "go into," much
like going "into" the military or a career like law or medicine. This
makes them members of a small subset of their respective denominations,
separating them out from the laity. The LDS priesthood, by contrast, is made up
of laymen - being an LDS priesthood holder does not separate one out from the
laity. Anybody in the LDS church, man or woman, is my fellow member of the
laity.I question whether these protesters are more interested in
serving God on in pushing a socio-political agenda. If I want agendas being
pushed in my face, I'll go back to the Unitarian church.
@havecharity1234 - I agree with your sentiments but the count provided by the DN
seems pretty consistent with the number provided by the SL Tribune.
I am so glad that this is happening and I hope that LDS women do not give up. I
belong to a Presbyterian congregation where women are allowed to be pastors and
serve the sacrament. Everyone is treated equally and everyone's voices are
heard. Everyone in our congregation benefits because of this.
For all of you who think the church will change it's position on this
matter of the priesthood are sadly mistaken and are "looking beyond the
mark". if you really loved the church as you say you would strive to live
by the word of God which from the voice of God or His servants is the same. It
seems to me the brethren made it pretty clear at this conference how the
priesthood is enjoyed by both men and women in the church but God decided that
men would hold the priesthood. It seems that some women in the church got their
heads turned by women outside the church that managed to convince other
religions to ordain women.
@Danny Chipman--You're right; it is sad, very sad, that women are not
treated as well as men in the LDS church. Man--submit to god; women--submit to
your husband. Even if he is high up in the church hierarchy but still comes
home, kicks the dog through the hedge, then beats his wife. Women--submit to
your husband.Women who seek to receive the priesthood, more power to you!
@ Skye,I can tell you don't remember Pres Hinckley's strong
warning to men who behave as you describe. Such behavior isn't in keeping
with the Gospel or holding the Priesthood. If you are privy to such actions,
please report them immediately to the offending person's Priesthood leader
who will promptly take actions to stop it. If he doesn't his own standing
is in jeopardy.
@ricardo calvarho I got my numbers from the Exponent II live twitter feed of the
event as they counted heads. I'm not sure where the discrepancy is between
the organizers and the media. Maybe they only counted women? There were
apparently almost 50% men with the group. Hopefully both sides can come to an
What Ms. Kelly needs to learn is obedience, until then she should be
@HappyLiberal - women's voice are heard in the LDS Church.
There is no way these are sisters. I refuse to believe it!
Something tells me that Kate and her friends wouldn't be content as the
second counselor of the elders q. presidency of her ward or even bishop or even
stake president or general authority or member of the 12. Perhaps prophet would
carry enough prestige? Sadly Kate is caught up in the toxic culter of power and
personal gain that flows through many who work in Washington DC and she has lost
sight of her faith in the fog of it all. The priesthood is all about service -
very humble service where most of the time the left hand is not aware of what
the right hand is doing - as it should be in true Christian service. Bishops
don't campaign to be Stake Presidents and Stake Presidents don't
campaign for the title of general authority. Most bishops I know served
faithfully for 5-6 years and were more than happy to return to being a primary
teacher or scout leader afterwards. Charity seeketh not her own...is not puffed
up... Moroni ch 7. The Savior said "what mattereth it if you gain the whole
world but lose your own soul"? Kate ought to be asking herself the same
Do these women actually think that the Church is ran by public opinion, or what
is popular? They must have never believed Jesus Christ was at the helm.
re:Happy LiberalPerhaps you should contact Kate and tell her your
church has openings in its priesthood. Acutally I have the feeling she will be
seeking you out in the near future.
JSF said "IMO she is a narcistic self centered person seeking glory and
fame." that is a interesting comment, because I thought the same
thing about Elder Oaks when he was addressing women and the priesthood in the
priesthood session of conference.
25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith
the Lord; 26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have
professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me
in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.D&C 112:25-26
Enough never is enough.I hope Sister Kelly has a good long talk with
her bishop, after studying Elder Oak's talk. I hope she
isn't put off by all these comments posted so far, most of which oppose her
views. After all, she opened it up to public discussion.And
hopefully she will have the common sense to obey her Church leaders and
don't push this thing like Sonia Johnson. It's not worth the sorrow
@ 2close2callJSF said "IMO she is a narcistic self centered
person seeking glory and fame." "that is a interesting
comment, because I thought the same thing about Elder Oaks when he was
addressing women and the priesthood in the priesthood session of
conference"Elder Oaks devoting his whole life to service and
serving the Lord through his calling. Sorry but that doesn't fit the
definition of being a narcissist. Miss Kelly on the other hand does
fit that definition of being a narcissist. Everything she is advocating is based
on selfishness. She wants to administer, she wants to bless the sick, she
wants........It's all publicity to her. This General
Conference has been very inspiring and uplifting.
souptwinsI take exception to what you are saying, not because I
agree with the message of these sisters, but we should be very slow to invite
someone to leave the church. How will they ever come to a knowledge of the truth
if we invite them to toss the Spirit from their lives?
Around General Conference las October this group asked the Brethren to consider
the issue and bring it to The Lord . They have had 6 months to do just that. I
know the issue has weighed on their minds a great deal and has been a subject of
many prayers among the First Presidency and the 12 Apostles. Although several talks referred to the issue, Elder Oaks talk addressed it
head on. To Ms Kelley and her followers: That is your answer! The Lord has
spoken.What you do now will determine if you really do love and
believe the Church and sustain the Prophet.
I mean this very sincerely: To the women petitioning for Priesthood (and the men
supporting them)--qualify for a Temple recommend and then enter the Temple.
Watch to see if in the Endowment there are any Priesthood gifts or blessings,
including Priesthood clothing, that are given to the men which are not given to
the women. Ask yourself, "What is a Priestess?" The Temple is a house
of revelation. You can learn by revelation personally that the fulness of the
Priesthood is already available to women as well as men in the Lord's House
through faithfulness. To receive these Priesthood blessings is a matter of
faith, revelation, sanctification, and obedience.
Shaking my head here "/Elder Oaks made the case so clear.... Kinda
like the same thing Kelly & co learned in... Ummm... PRIMARY
Along with Elder Oak's talk on Priesthood in this last session, they should
also be given the talk on Pride by Pres. Benson. We love these women and want
them to stay. But when Church leaders are ignored and your agenda becomes
dominant in a spirit of my "my will not thine be done," you are then on
shaky ground and you begin to enter the pathway of apostasy, or estrangement
from the church. It is impossible to say you love this church, and openly
reject the wishes of both the Women and Men leadership in it. More frightening
than that, is the deaf ear to doctrine, taught clearly and unmistakably by
living prophets. When we feel we know more of Gods will for the church than
Gods ordained ministers we are treading on thin ice. I fear that this issue for
that little group of women, has transformed itself now into a matter of pure
pride... meaning they will leave the church before they humble themselves and
Cosmo1974That is the EXACT same thing that was said about African
Americans ever getting the priesthood. How would you know that it isn't in
gods plan later down the line? That's right, you don't know.
I think it is because these woman and spiritual and believers that they want to
participate in the most sacred events of the church. Women want to be recognized
as worthy, full fledged members of a church they hold dear, I won't say
they do not deserve this simply because of their gender.
@ Brahmabull"That is the EXACT same thing that was said about
African Americans ever getting the priesthood. How would you know that it
isn't in gods plan later down the line? That's right, you don't
know"Your comparing apples to oranges.In the Bible,
there were men of other races such as the gentiles that never held the
priesthood. Not once through out biblical history have women ever held the
priesthood. God designed it that way because He created men and women
differently and gave them separate but equal roles. Elder Oaks
explained that very clearly, I suggest you listen to his talk.
Well the DNews keeps rejecting my comments as being inappropriate. All I'm
trying to say is that to an outsider reading the posts on this article they come
across as rude. The basic gist of them is that women in the LDS Church need to
understand their role in the Church (or even here on Earth according to some
posts). This seems like a very dearly held belief among posters here. To those
of us outside the church it just seems like everyone is saying "women need
to know their place". And as for me that sounds like a comment from a far
distant time when society was less decent not more so.
If the church did make such a drastic change in any doctrine based on public
pressure or protest, and the Lord did not remove the prophet within a week,
I'd leave the church immediately. We don't vote or reason out what we
believe the doctrine should be. We pray for the help to understand what the
@lixircatNo you wouldn't. Because if the church did make such a
drastic change in doctrine they would do so by saying that it came from a
revelation and the faithful would believe that and move on. I'm not saying
that to make fun of you or the church either, I'm really not. My only point
is that the church has indeed made drastic changes in doctrine, have based them
on revelation, and the church moved on and was as solid as ever. The
ending of polygamy was a very drastic change and came because of political
pressure. The change in giving Black men the priesthood was very drastic
(don't believe me - just go back and read some of the talks from Mark E.
Peterson in the 50's and others) and the church moved on and thrived.If President Monson came out next week and said he had received a divine
revelation that women would now be ordained the vast majority of members would
accept it as revelation and move on. A year later it wouldn't even be an
issue. Again, that's not a bad thing just a reality.
@the wraithYes we are saying these women need to learn and know
their place but it isn't the dark and ominous thing you are trying to make
it appear. Men also need to learn and know their place, in Christ's church
men have their place and women have thiers. He is the one that has assigned
those roles and we are both required to learn them, know them, and execute them.
It is as simple as that. There is no "back of the bus" oppression nor is
there anything else disciriminatory about it. We each have a role and we are
expected to fill that role.
Bleed CrimsonFirst of all, even if the bible doesn't
specifically say that women held the priesthood that doesn't mean that they
didn't. Second, there are many mormon teachings that don't agree with
bible teachings, so your comparison is void. Third, in the early days of the LDS
church there is strong evidence that women held some sort of priesthood - they
gave blessings by the laying on of hands, healing blessings, etc. So don't
be so quick to say that because it isn't today, that it won't be
tomorrow. You know as well as I do that the mormon church has a history of
claiming one thing is doctrine, and then saying it isn't doctrine later. So
why couldn't that happen here?
Article quote: "Despite polite and respectful requests from church leaders
not to make Temple Square a place of protest, a mixed group of men and women
ignored that request and staged a demonstration outside the Tabernacle on
General Conference weekend, refusing to accept ushers' directions and
refusing to leave when asked," said Cody Craynor, spokesman for The Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."And, the seeds of apostasy
in these individuals continues to bear it's dangerous
'fruit'.....How sad.These individuals claim
that they are nothing like those outside the LDS faith who attack the Church and
yet small choice by small choice they are becoming exactly like them.
@Woodyff"What Ms. Kelly needs to learn is obedience,"She's a woman, not a dog.
@Duckhunter"Yes we are saying these women need to learn and know their
place but it isn't the dark and ominous thing you are trying to make it
appear."Of course not, it's a bright kitchen full of
sandwiches... or at least that's the impression I get out of a decent
number of you...
The issue being discussed isn't the priesthood, but rather priesthood
offices. The nature of each of the priesthood offices has come through
revelation, and can be perfectly understood from the ordinances in the
temple.Therefore, I ask the question: "Which office(s) of the
priesthood do these Sisters seek to obtain?" Since no priesthood office is
necessary for the Sister's salvation, I offer the next question:
The brethren of the Church have no power to grant women priesthood ordination
without express permission from God. Thus, women who want the priesthood should
go directly to the source - they each have a direct line of prayer to Him, the
same as any priesthood holder. There is a precedent for this; black people
received the priesthood in the 1970's after many years of patient and
prayerful petitioning of the Lord. He heard their prayers and granted the
petition. There are references in the Bible to the "high
priestess" showing that it is not without historical precedent.
How is a woman protesting (let's call it as it is) the Priesthood, any
different from a Man protesting or petitioning to be a Bishop, or Stake
President or Apostle? It is not done this way in the Lords church.If you believe it should be done this way, then you cannot believe that the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Lords church. But rather
that it is a club or community group made up by a con artist.
(Cont)...If the Lord decides to give the Priesthood to Women it will
not be because you marched on the square. Any man or woman who seeks authority
in the church is not worthy of the authority or its blessings.It
causes me much sadness when I hear of this movement as it certainly can only
lead to a loss of faith. It also causes me much sadness when I hear others
invite these women to leave the church. What we should be doing is praying,
listening to the lords servants, accepting our callings, showing compassion
towards others, and not letting our pride rob ourselves of our own salvation and
the salvation of others (whom ye chase away, or deceive).
RE: gmlewis, “The nature of each of the priesthood offices has come
through revelation”? In(D&C 110: 1-16) Elias and Elijah
appear to JS, but in the Bible they are the same person. The KJV translators
attempted to transliterate Elijah to Elias because there isn’t a Greek
character for the English letter J.To avoid confusion, modern
translations: NIV, NJKV, NASB and the Catholic Bible have Elijah instead of
Elias in(Mt 11:14, Mark 9:12-13; Luke 1:17)JS was fooled.In(D&C
84: 6-17) the line of priesthood is given from Moses to Adam. verse 13, Esaias,
who lived in the days of Abraham. Esaias is, from Greek Septuagint.
To avoid confusion Modern N.T. translations have Isaiah instead
of Esaias, see (Romans 9:27,29, NKJV, NIV,NET). JS used the KJV but he could
not read Greek
These women in the OW group probably already have many, many responsibilities
being wives and mothers. What makes them think that their lives will be blessed
and improved upon by receiving the authority and subsequent responsibilities?
They will soon, very soon, realize that they will be walking or running faster
than they have the energy, stamina and strength from God to accomplish all that
they have to do. The increased responsibilities and assignments will almost
immediately become a detriment as they lack the time and/or resources to
complete their tasks. The smallest organization within the Church and Kingdom
of God is the family and in order for the family to function an equally yoked
married companionship needs to possess mutual strength. It will NOT function
properly when there is a husband trying to pull an overly worked and overwhelmed
wife because she has taken upon herself unnecessary responsibilities all because
she coveted that which she ought not to have.
Well, reading these comments is interesting in the turns they take. So, leaving
this topic for hopefully ever, I sincerely pray for these women as this church
is focused so much on the one. Everyone, is of eternal worth.. and to lose
anyone is a tragedy. While there will be a never ending debate on the origins
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter - Day Saints, it is my witness that it
originated with Jesus Christ himself, and restored through a boy prophet born
and raised up for that purpose. AS we were reminded this weekend... Where there
is truth, there always will be opposition to it. It will ever be so, to indeed
validate that it really is true. I have my own witness of these things. No one
else told me. I asked and received, and the fruits of it continue to bring the
greatest of happiness to my life. The fruits of the Restoration of this truth
are sweet indeed. On this earth reside 15 prophets, seers and revelators and
they have directed us this weekend. No one can read their words and say, they
lie..they are of Satan. Unless Satan is against himself. Judge ye.
Shades of Sonia Johnson (from the 70s movement). Different name, same purpose,
most likely same outcome.
The men and women who protested and tried to enter the conference center on
Saturday evening either didn't listen to the talks given in October or
earlier Saturday, didn't understand what was said, or didn't care what
I had one of their followers Abigayle M. Ellison @Abigayle412 tweet me during
conference saying "Our God is a man and a women. Pretty sure she has
priesthood. I want to be like her". Later others in their group tried to do
damage control saying that is not what they believe. You just can't mix a
bunch of religions and man made desires up and try to make it sound like the
desire of just one faith. Our general conference is just the flavor of the day
for many of them. Their mission statement makes no reference to believing in
Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost either.
Every time a worthy sister performs in her calling (assuming she was set apart)
isn't she is exercising the Priesthood? Ipso facto - sadly, this is
about the noun (persons & titles) and not the verb (acts of selfless
If women were to be given the Priesthood, then what role would men have? Such
an arrangement would only create confusion and conflict. We see such conflict in
the society today where men are increasingly an optional element in the modern
family.The Creator made the roles of men and women distinct and
complimentary, each playing a vital role in the creation of souls and guiding
them down the path to return to Him. These misguided women are
seeking to usurp the authority of the Priesthood for themselves, and
disrespecting the leaders of the Church they claim to love in the process.
It looks like the girls have an immovable wall in this issue, and it is neither
hyperbole nor stereotype whenever I tell someone religion works to oppress
women, judging by the nature and quantity of comments. Still, I've got no
dog in this hunt, god's changed (his) mind before, no reason to think it
can't happen again. You go, girls.
@TheWalker: If women were to be given the Priesthood, then what role would men
have? I've been a member of two churches that ordained women
and that put the most capable person in a calling, regardless of gender. In my experience women bring a different viewpoint to things, and having
women in leadership and co-equal positions gives an organization greater range
in handling all manner of situations and issues.
Right now the church is being criticized because it won't ordain women, but
if it did, it would then be criticized as being hypocritical and for changing
its doctrine. If someone has such a big problem with any organization, the
proper response is to form one's own organization, not excoriate an
existing organization with ideals they disagree with and whose history would
remain "tainted" by a period of "non-acceptance" even if said
ideals were amended.
It's pretty plain and simple. Our LDS leaders did not decide the gender
that would be allowed to hold the Priesthood, Heavenly Father did, so if you are
upset about Heavenly Father's way of doing things, and you think He is
being unfair or unequal, then take it up with Him! He directs our leaders, they
don't direct Him!
I beg to differ with slcman on how we have altered our doctrines or reversed
them. If your regarding Polygamy at the end of the 19th century you need to
revisit a little history. I personaly come from 2 polygamous family branches and
even their histories account that Monogamy was the rule in the church and that
polygamy was only allowed in certain circumstances. Less than 15-20% in fact and
it had to be sanctioned by the leadership of the church. You couldn't just
enter a polygamous marriage their had to be a specific reason for it and even
they knew that the practice wasn't to be permanant. The anti polygamy laws
just brought the practice to an end quicker. By the way this is in complete
harmony with Jacob 2:22-30. As for Blacks and the Priesthood the writings of any
general authority from the early part of the 20th century including Gordon B
Hinckly then an assistant to the Quorum of the 12 would have let you know that
the concensus was always in favor of extending the preisthood to Black members
the lords answer was not yet but it would at a future date.
@ Hutterite and Stormwalker - What you don't understand is that women lead
in a very powerful way in our church. The Relief Society has just as much
control over things as a bishopric does. That they don't actually perform
the ordinances (in most cases) is true, but that doesn't change the fact
that the women lead. Each week a ward council meets which is the major decision
maker in each ward. That council is made up of both men and women. Furthermore,
we men listen to our wives more than we listen to ourselves. When a new bishop
or stake president is called, not only are the men interviewed but their wives
are also. This is also true of general authorities. I have served in the primary
and cub scouts for most of my adult life - my leaders have been women. Women
preach and pray every week in our wards. They serve missions, visit the sick and
disheartened, and carry the church on their shoulders. There are those who will
not believe this because the men hold all the priesthood offices, but the women
in our church are more important than the men.
@sharrona, just read the footnote that is attached to Elias.
I truly feel sad for the active LDS women who have been caught up in this
"movement". Most at the protest were ex-members or non-members hoping
to damage thr Church. The real leaders in this movement are not doing it for
the LDS sisters...Elder Oaks spoke so powerfully and perfectly in
teaching us all about the priesthood. I would not ever try to add to his
comments.These are truly times when the adversary will "lead
away the very elect". I hope those Church members involved in the OW
movement will come to a knowledge of what they are doing and make the necessary
I think it is interesting to hear the leaders of the Ordain Women movement say
that they believe in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The
bedrock foundation of this Church is that Christ is the head of it. He decides
what is to be done and how it is done on important matters, like who has the
Priesthood. Those in the OW movement seem to think that they might be able to
get the human leaders of the Church to get the divine leader to change His mind.
Or they should just give in to popular opinion. Does this make sense? I am not
sure what benefit being a Priesthood holder would give these women. If callings
are given by revelation and Jesus hasn't given a revelation to give them
the Priesthood yet, what calling do they think they will hold? Do they want to
be Bishops, Stake Presidents, or even the Prophet? Why? Most men don't
ever have these offices. Why would a woman? Most of us are teachers in this
church, not the leader of the congregations. This seems like a power grab.
If the Ordain Women movement wanted to see true feminine power, they should have
attended the Women's General Meeting. While the men were there to preside
and protect, the women ran the show. A woman conducted. Women talked, sang,
conducted the songs, and played the music. One member of the First Presidency
talked and referred to the influence of his mother and his wife. It was amazing
and powerful. Even more amazing is that I am quite sure that none of these
women would have lobbied to have their callings or to seek for this
"power". There is a certain dignity and grace that these women have
because they haven't sought for their positions, but rather are focused on
how to serve their fellow man, woman, & children. Christ believed in
service. The Pharisees believed and defended their power by killing Christ. I
think the OW movement wants the power of the Priesthood rather than the service
that exemplifies a true Priesthood holder. Perhaps if they understood their own
personal power better, they wouldn't need an exterior ordination to make
them feel equal and important.
These comments were wonderful and truth telling. The members of the OW group
have been misled and someday they will realize it and experience much regret.
It's just sad to me they choose to express their frustration and anger
during a most sacred time in the lives of millions of faithful latter-day
saints. Hopefully somde day these women will realize the error of their ways and
choose to Repent.
To: Common Sense in Idaho - your comments were absolutely wonderful and I
totally agree with you.
SuziQThe church has changed it's stance and doctrine numerous
times in the face of pressure from the outside. Polygamy ended so Utah could
become a state - it would have not been able to do so had polygamy continued.
Blacks were able to get the priesthood because the civil rights movement gained
steam and so the church allowed it. It doesn't take a revelation. The
bretheren may very well do the same thing here in the face of pressure.
Funny how all the hype leading up to the protest claimed that 500 women would be
marching on Temple square. Turns out that the total was 200, and that included
male supporters. So, this really isn't much of a movement after all. Most
thoughtful women in the Church already appreciate that they are completely equal
to men in the eyes of the Lord, and are of absolute equal importance in
God's plan. I think the misguided marchers would be better off seeking
ordination in a different denomination--one that believes that popular outcry
trumps the words of a Prophet.
@Brahmabull - Simply not true
Brahmabull: You do realize that as President Woodruff stated that if the Lord
had wished for polygamy to continue that he would have kept the practice. It
really had nothing to do with wanting to become a state, though for some that
appears to be the reason. As has been stated before on many other boards,
Brigham Young mentioned that at a future date African American Blacks would one
day once more hold the Priesthood. From as early as Joseph F Smith through to
Spencer W Kimball leaders of the Church had tried to reconcile to giving the
African American Blacks the Priesthood. As President Hinkley and others have
stated over and over again that when the revelation came allowing blacks to hold
the priesthood, it was given. Now you can believe it or not.
Regardless neither of the circumstances has any bearing on yours or my eternal
progression. If you want to continue to try and mislead that is fine as that is
up to you but facts are facts.However, for women to receive the
priesthood may never be given as that kind of pressure will never hold.
@ brahmabullThe church did not exclude blacks for racism or extend it
because of social evolution. In the new testament the gentiles were not allowed
access to many things in the church until the day of penticost where Peter
gratefully witnessed the outpouring to all. God is not a respecter of persons
but don't assume he isn't the one running the show here. He does what
He does and we either follow Him or not.Church policy is NOT
reactive to modern culture.
I have actually gone to the Ordain Women website and read this stance. On their
website they request/plead that the first presidency of the church will pray
about this issue. I don't have a problem with that. All the first
presidency has to do is pray and tell the world and this movement that the Lord
told them......A). No. Women shall not receive the priesthood. B). Not yet. And we don't know when it is right. C). Yes. Women
shall receive priesthood now. This whole thing is reminiscent of the
blacks and the priesthood. I hear some in the church saying "No it
can't be done" instead of " Let me pray about that and ask
God". God has the final say, not man. I would ask that the
leadership of the LDS church just pray about this and let the world know if the
answer is A, B, or C. If the women of this movement are truly faithful they will
accept any answer that comes from sincere prayer.
KaladinNice try. bj-hpI believe you are the
one trying to mislead. You say president Woodruff said something, but you
don't provide the quote. Come on, you can do better then that. Go ahead and
type in 'manifesto' on wikipedia. It explains very clearly that the
United states had a right to come and take all of the church's assets if
they continued to break the law under the Edmunds–Tucker Act of 1887. In
response to that the church (Woodruff specifically) stopped approving plural
marriages. Shortly thereafter, to comply, the manifesto was issued. It seems
strange to me that instead of continuing polygamy, with god on their side, they
decided to end it instead. Couldn't god just protect them instead, and then
they could have kept practicing polygamy? It is easy to say after the fact that
if god wanted it to continue it would have... Utah would not have become a
state, so therefore they had no choice but to stop the practice. It had nothing
to do with god or he would have told them to continue and he would take care of
@ CommodoreElder Oaks made it very clear that the answer is A. You better believe that the General Authorities of the Church have
prayed, went to the temple to seek revelation, before they address the members
at General Conference. I'm sure they have prayed about the ordination of
women as well as other issues that were spoken at conference. The
problem is the OW movement will not take "no" for an answer even when it
comes from God through His servants. This group is following the trends of
society in fighting for this notion of "equality". When Elder Oaks
already addressed that we're all equal in the eyes of God and are given
different roles in our mortal life. Unfortunately this movement will continue to
protest and petition the Lord. OW needs to be careful because they're
flirting with apostasy and experience the same fate as Sonja Johnson. This movement needs to stop! If the Lord wanted women to hold the priesthood.
The announcement would have already been made. We all need to have faith in God
and the roles each of us play in this life and in His church.
@BrahmabullIt kills me that you are quoting Wikipedia as your proof.
The ongoing battle over any LDS topic on Wikipedia is well-known. Even the
statement you used is suspect. Yes, it is true that the Edmunds-Tucker Act was
a major trial for the Church, but what Wiki forgot to tell you is that the
Federal Government had already taken nearly every asset they could touch. There
really wasn't much left to take. If you do some real research,
you will see that the LDS in Utah Territory put up with an unbelievable amount
of abuse from the Federal Government. If the decision to end polygamy was
purely a made by man, they could have done so any time in the 40 years they were
putting up with it. It is my belief that the membership showed
their willingness to follow God's will no matter how distasteful it was or
how much persecution they received for doing so. Polygamy was ended when God
decided they had proved themselves.