Oh for crying out loud!Where was the Deseret News during the 8 years
I was called a "traitor" and all sorts of other vile names by the
Right-wing when Bush got his "Patriot Act"?Let me guess ---
Bush good, Obama bad.Tell you what, You guys
on the right let that genie out of the bottle in the 1st place, YOU get it
back in the bottle.But, to show my integrity, I'll help
Should private business people be able to do things supposedly prohibited to our
government by the Constitution? And if private business does those things,
should the government be able to have access to their business records and other
data. Can private business operate in secrete from our government?The horse has already been stolen, it's not going to do any good to lock
the Sheriff in the barn. Private business has been collecting data from our
personal lives longer than we have had digital capability. We are spied upon
when we seek medical help, want to buy things, look at a web sight, photographed
on the streets, in parking lots, in stores, and sometimes in the privacy of our
own homes. In most cases we have gladly given up some freedom of privacy for
safety and convenience. If we give up the freedom of privacy to
private business, why should we not be willing to give up the same freedom to
our only organized friend in the world, our federal government. It is probably
only criminals who fear the government and wish to operate in the dark.
OMM,No... if you had really been paying attention back then (instead of
just looking for stuff that fits your stereotypes you have for the other
side)... you would have noticed that the more Conservative you are... the more
you opposed the Patriot Act (yes, even under Bush). Tea Party
people were against much of the Patriot Act and this Government intrusion even
back then. But you probably didn't notice that... because it doesn't
fit your stereotype or your narrative (D-Good... R-Bad)...I can show
you many articles where true Conservatives opposed the Patriot Act if you
can't remember. Remember... not all Republicans are
"Conservatives". Republicans in Washington are mostly not
"Conservatives".==From the article..."Patrick Leahy, D-Vermont, has teamed up with Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, to
introduce a necessary update to the Electronic Communications Privacy
Act"...A D and a radical-R working together on this... how
weird!And yet yesterday the left praised changing our electoral
system, mainly so you can get Mike Lee.. and evidently he's on your side on
this one!Maybe Mike Lee isn't all bad.Maybe Tea
Party people don't fit your mold?
@2 bitsLOL. Tea Partiers resisted the Patriot Act? Before they
organized in order to take our country back from the bl.. Democrats? I am truly
witnessing history being rewritten. Hopefully that tall tale won't be
considered "from the victors".
Ultra Bob,The Constitution is about Government... not business.The Constitution is about what our GOVERNMENT CAN'T do to you. Even
President Obama understands this, when he calls it "A document of negative
liberties"... "Negative Liberties" means what the government is NOT
allowed to do.Most of those negative liberties don't apply to
businesses (or individuals).We have a lot of rights the Government
doesn't have (intentionally).The constitution limits the
Government (not the people).We can do things the government
can't. Likewise businesses don't have the same restrictions our
Federal Government has.===I know you hate businesses.
Why... I don't understand. But it's just silly to pretend that the
Constitution was written to limit them.It was written to limit our
Government.===And just because a business can do
something... doesn't automatically mean we give the Government that same
latitude. The Constitution limits government...===There are TONS of laws that apply to Businesses (and not to Government).
Congress can do that. But laws/legislation from Congress... are different from
the Constitution.Laws passed by Congress (to rule us, or rule
businesses) are not part of the Constitution.
slcdenizen,If you don't believe me... Google "Conservatives
protest patriot act", etc...This is from the LA Times. Google
"Patriot Act runs into conservative opposition" to read full
article...Some quotes:'Tea party' adherents in
the House, like civil libertarians, chafe at parts of the anti-terrorism law
that reach into people's privacy.""Tea party adherents
prefer a smaller federal government, creating common cause on this issue with
civil libertarians who object to expanded surveillance powers for federal
authorities"...===I agree they should have been even
more vocal when Republicans proposed it under Bush, but everybody was afraid to
oppose things that would stop future terrorist attacks then. They got more
bold when Obama proposed the extensions and expansions to the Patriot Act
surveillance provisions.But Democrats flip/flopped on this too...
against is right after 9/11 (because Bush wanted it)... but all for it years
later under Obama---There are lots of other articles
documenting Tea Party people gathering with libertarians to protest the
government expansions including the Patriot Act. But you need to do some
research on your own. I can't do it all for you.
2 bits. It would have been a great help to me if you has given an
example or two of the rights that people can do but the government cannot.
Things that business can do that conflict with the Constitution, I
have never thought of the Constitution as "A document of negative
liberties", except maybe that part called the Bill of Rights, and then only
the first ten amendments. The Constitution starts out saying:"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect
Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common
defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to
ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the
United States of America."To me, the rest of the Constitution
until you get to the Bill of Rights section is just rules and explanation of how
they would carry out the message of the Preamble. I don't
hate businesses. I do have problems of business operation who refuse to follow
the civil laws of our government(s). For that matter I don't like people
who refuse to abide the law.
Ultra Bob,RE "Should private business people be able to do things
supposedly prohibited to our government by the Constitution? "...Yes.You asked for examples...-Due process
(doesn't apply to companies).-Warrants (not required for
companies) dept collectors, etc-Citizens can have private property,
and private information. The government can't (exceptions for national
security on some information)-Citizen's arrest (no probable
cause or warrant needed).-A bounty hunter can walk into your house
with no warrant, or pick you up on the street, detain you, and take you in.
They can also use their weapon when a police officer can't.There are things the government can do that businesses and individuals
can't:-Taxation-Declare war-coin money-enter into
TreatiesBut pretending if the government can't do something...
a business can't do it... just silly.Government and businesses
are not the same in the Constitution. Most of the Constitution applies to the
Government. ===Can you give us one section or
amendment that applies to businesses?There are 10 short sections, 27
short amendments. I couldn't find one that applied to businesses. Did
you find one?
Silly is as Silly does.
All means of personal communication should be protected.
2 bits... lets be real hear.... conservatives does not equal tea-party. Yes,
tea party types consider themselves conservative, but so do a whole lot of
people who aren't tea-party members. The first utterance of the label
"tea party" didn't exist before 2009.... you can draw up your own
reasons for that.But then to say that people who are concerned that
entities like Google are reading your emails, then selling that information to
advertisers, is some how anti capitalism is bizarre at best. Many of these
cloud services, in particular the photo sites, you loose your own copyright to
the material you post on those sites. Those companies have the right to use
your material, with or without your permission - something many are not aware
of.Any new rules need to take both public and private sector
implications into consideration. No entity, corporate or public, should have
the right to read my emails, or scan my computer, without my permission. Going
to one site does not give them the right to then track my every move and click
from that point forward - which many do. Privacy should be respected by
government and corporations alike.
@2 Bits... what are you talking about...?-Warrants (not required for
companies) dept collectors, etc? Excuse me? Debt collectors can't take
your property without a legal instrument to back them up... -Due
process (doesn't apply to companies). Umm... have you had to fire
someone? To say there is no "due process" in companies, give me a
break.-A bounty hunter can walk into your house with no warrant....
Again, no they can't. And they can't just randomly use deadly
force. Where are you getting this stuff from?-Citizens can have
private property, and private information. And again.... you ever heard of
"closed door sessions" in government? The government - from local
through federal - all have "private property"... and much of it has
nothing to do with National Defense. From water treatment plants, to parking
lots for DoT equipment.Your examples just don't make the point
you are trying to make.Why don't you go try a citizens arrest -
taking someone into custody - without probable cause. We'll see who ends
up in court, and who doesn't.I think you need to go brush up on
the law a bit.