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BYU football: Despite misdemeanor charge, Cougar running back Jamaal Williams in good standing

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  • sammyg Springville, UT
    March 25, 2014 9:07 p.m.

    Much ado about nothing.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    March 25, 2014 9:27 p.m.

    Pretty much as one could have predicted. Of course Jamaal already talked with Coach about it, and however serious, from zero to serious, it's been resolved as far as the Coach and the Honor Code are concerned. Not it is being resolved as a legal issue.

    Those who opined that Jamaal should just be honest, and in the process implied that he wasn't, spoke out of turn. Again.

    Can we move on now?

  • Floyd Johnson Broken Arrow, OK
    March 25, 2014 9:41 p.m.

    Congratulations Duane! I wish you good health during your retirement.

  • I Bleed Blue Las Vegas, NV
    March 25, 2014 9:55 p.m.

    Sounds like it has already been addressed. Time to move on.

  • Back Talk Federal Way, WA
    March 25, 2014 9:56 p.m.

    Maybe this is the first example of the new practice for handling honor code accusations. BYU said that these things would be handled internally so lets trust them to do that. We can also be glad that this new practice will be better for the athletes involved.

    There will always be critics so no just let them do what they do and "let it go" .

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    March 25, 2014 10:06 p.m.

    Gotta luv a certain BYU hater's bitter disappointment about Jamaal and Bronco dealing with this situation behind closed doors.

    It's interesting that the individuals who have the least respect for BYU's Honor Code are the same individuals who are the most adamant about seeing it strictly enforced.

    They obviously completely misunderstand the fundamental purpose of the Honor Code.

  • Outside-View Federal Way, WA
    March 25, 2014 10:11 p.m.

    Honor code doenst mean "perfection". Judement of the individual circumstances, people involved amd their desire/commitment to change make all of the difference. That is why so many BYU fans like this new approach to dealing with honor code issues.

    People can say that the honor code will lose its meaning but that is baloney. Hopfully, it will more closely match the standards everyday members and help soften the image of BYU as a school.

  • bobbybruce PROVO, UT
    March 25, 2014 10:19 p.m.

    Considering how BYU has handled player issues in the past, often removing the player from participation even at critical games, I'm completely confident that BYU is handling this incident correctly.

    Of course there will always be the detractors, especially hypocritical UofU fans, who feign concern (who I'm sure have the best interest) for BYU's high moral standards. Between BYU and these antagonists, I know which group has the reputation and history that earns my trust.
    GO COUGARS!

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    March 25, 2014 10:25 p.m.

    Glad to see that Bronco and Jamaal have already worked this out and that BYU isn't over-reacting to a minor offense.

    Yes, from what we know, Jamaal probably broke the law and the Honor Code, but this type of offense wouldn't be grounds for suspension for non-athletes, so athletes deserve to be treated in private with the same leniency.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    March 25, 2014 10:27 p.m.

    BYU needs to stop pounding its chest.

    We hear about players breaking the honor code when they get arrested or when a Utah fan catches them in the act in Vegas. How many do we not hear about and are swept under the rug?

    BYU seems to care about the honor code when they can brag about higher standards, but when someone doesn't obey it they sweep it under the rug (in situations when they can get away with it).

    If you are not going to enforce the Honor Code, why even have it in the first place? Give the players their agency back.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2014 10:29 p.m.

    Still nothing to see here. Move along everyone.

    This is between student athlete, his coach and the school.

  • Levin Reno, NV
    March 25, 2014 10:31 p.m.

    The namesake of the university said, "I believe in coming out and being plain and honest with that which should be made public, and in keeping to yourselves that which should be kept ... Tell to the public that which belongs to the public ..." Does this belong to the public? I don't think it does. Coach Mendenhall understands that, and he shows respect for his players not to drag their private business through the public eye. While it has been inspiring to see KVN, Davies, Hadley, and others turn their lives around on a public stage, I think the new attitude is better.

  • Darren Rowe Heber City, UT
    March 25, 2014 10:34 p.m.

    Chris B,

    Most of that comment is a good point and very accurate. But where in the world did you hear that lying to a judge was legal? In court, you place your hand on the bible and swear to "tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth."

    Obviously, people lie to judges all the time, but in no way is it legal at all.

    My prediction is that Jamaal will either be found in both legal and honor code trouble, or he won't be in trouble at all. In this instance, the honor code is almost exactly the same as the law (in many cases the honor code is more strict). It's hard for me to see any scenario where he is in legal trouble but not honor code trouble or vice versa.

  • oddman ,
    March 25, 2014 10:43 p.m.

    You apparently you know little about law enforcement nor legal matters if you think every arrest is made without error. Having been in law enforcement for many years I can tell you, my friend, that many arrests are made with little or no probable cause. Circumstances often make things appear one way but they are often innocent or completely different than witnesses or appearances lead law enforcement to believe. I don't know why people immediately assume the worst and cover ups are the rule of the day. Perhaps you're experiences have left you a cynic. I am not and believe in the system which includes the honor code which I honored for the entire time I was attending school, and still do today.

  • RBN Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2014 11:03 p.m.

    Oh Chris, good grief. Entering a plea is not like entering the confessional and confessing all your sins. Not all honor code violations will get you kicked out of school. Having sex will do it certainly. Spencer Hadley didn't get kicked out of BYU. Whatever his violations were (and they are none of my business) were enough to be suspended from football games. I'm not sure if he was suspended from practices.

    When you're dealing with kids some flexibility is necessary. I think the Van Noy story shows that Bronco has a good sense of what will help a kid become a better person. Sometimes you may need to take a hard line; other times the line may be softer. As long as the Honor Code Office doesn't make him withdraw from school, I'm good with giving Bronco some latitude with Williams. When Whit is dealing with one of our wayward Utes I am confident he, too, will fashion an appropriate punishment.

  • Riley Mendenhall Provo, UT
    March 25, 2014 11:04 p.m.

    Why not just get rid of the Honor Code?

    "I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves." - Joseph Smith

  • RBN Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2014 11:05 p.m.

    @Sammy

    I have to disagree with you that it's much ado about nothing. Bronco has a good track record of dealing appropriately with players who stretch the boundaries of the honor code. I suspect Bronco would not say this is much ado about nothing. He's not telling us what his discussion with Jamaal was (which is appropriate), but I'm sure Bronco wasn't happy to be having that discussion.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    March 25, 2014 11:20 p.m.

    There is a large and finely woven carpet under which that finest of human specimen, the collegiate pro athlete, may expect their indiscretions to be swept. Indeed, this practise starts much earlier in ones' 'scholastic' athletic career, albeit with lesser grade and lumpier carpet.

  • Ed Grady Idaho Falls, ID
    March 25, 2014 11:32 p.m.

    Mendenhall handled this perfectly.

  • Jeff29 Draper, UT
    March 26, 2014 12:26 a.m.

    When you go before a judge, you generally have three options: Guilty, not guilty, no contest. If you plead guilty or no contest you go straight to sentencing without the opportunity to plead your case. Almost everyone pleads not guilty so they can get a trial. It may have happened, but I've never heard of someone being accused of lying to the judge for pleading not guilty and then being found guilty. In addition, I believe he was charged with possession by a minor not consumption which are two very different things (especially in the eyes of the Honor Code).

  • Juxtaposed West Jordan , UT
    March 26, 2014 12:39 a.m.

    If he were to get a heavy suspension the anti-BYU crowd would say that BYU is too heavy-handed and makes mountains out of molehills. If it's handled internally people claim there's some grand cover-up and that the violations were swept under the rug. Personally, I don't know how some of the more frequent negative posters on both sides can even be happy. If they were happy in their own lives they wouldn't need to tear someone or something down every chance they got. Instead of the barrage of criticism how about you post something positive or something that actually has to with the team you support and their performance?

  • autahmanami Lehi, UT
    March 26, 2014 12:57 a.m.

    The seriousness of honor code violations, along with whether or not it is a repeat offense all contribute to how these items are handled. Seems pretty consistent to me with how BYU has dealt with similar violations by players in the past. If this was any other college in America, it would not have even made the news.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    March 26, 2014 6:29 a.m.

    Blechen was suspended after MULTIPLE failed drug tests, meaning that Whittingham and the U swept the first failed drug test(s) under the rug, yet we didn't see a single word of protest from CB about that. Yet here he is pontificating about Bronco and Jamaal lying and sweeping a first offense for something much more minor under the rug.

    The inconsistency is laughable.

    btw, pleading "not guilty" to a charge is not lying; it's simply exercising one's legal right to not incriminate one's self.

  • gchris rock springs, wy
    March 26, 2014 6:44 a.m.

    Some of the Utah fans who are so eager to enforce BYU's honor code on Williams are the same ones who, in the past,have claimed that BYU African-American players were held to a higher honor code standard than white players, which was a ridiculous claim in the first place. It is BYU's honor code and as a BYU alum and fan, I support the decision. I don't really care if some up on the hill, who really should worry about their own coaches and players, don't.

  • Cletus from Coalville Coalville, UT
    March 26, 2014 6:48 a.m.

    We are mad because it looks like he will be there still at byu and make them better and we don't want them to be better than us that's why we like to comment and say things about honest even though we don't bother with that with our players at our school.

    Go Utes!

  • belgie Tualatin, OR
    March 26, 2014 6:48 a.m.

    BYU has demonstrated, repeatedly, that not even the brightest sports stars are exempt from strict honor code enforcement. I think you have to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    March 26, 2014 6:52 a.m.

    I knew a older gent who talked slow and naturally (for him) drove slow. His wife also collected old wine bottles. She thought they were pretty. He was driving down the freeway at high speed (almost 50 MPH) and was pulled over for drunk driving.

    He told the officer that he had not been drinking and the officer looked on the floor of the back seat and saw, you guested it, a wine bottle. He was given a field sobriety test and passed. The officer did not believe the results so he hauled him into the hospital where the took a blood sample. He passed that test too.

    They still didn't want to let him go but they allowed him to make one phone call. He called his wife, who called the Superior Court Judge, who was in our LDS Ward and also on the high council with the accused.

    He walked.

    It may not be what it looks like.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    March 26, 2014 7:48 a.m.

    "It's highly unlikely charges would have been brought unless there was evidence of a crime."

    Innocent people are charged with crimes every day. That's why we have courts to determine whether individuals who are charged with a crime are actually guilty of committing that crime.

    Whether Jamaal is guilty, or not, under-age drinking is still only a minor offense, and something that Bronco and Jamaal have already addressed confidentially. Whatever discipline was given will remain confidential between Bronco and Jamaal, despite the frantic efforts of a few to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

    Time to move on.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    March 26, 2014 8:06 a.m.

    I like BYU's new approach to handling Honor Code violations behind closed doors. Athletes have just as much right to confidentiality as non-athletes.

    The whole idea behind the Honor Code is to assist students in attaining higher standards. Everyone makes mistakes. It's what we learn through overcoming those mistakes that's most important.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    March 26, 2014 8:27 a.m.

    Coach Mendenhall, you handled this with a ton of class. My already high respect for you just went up another level. I hope this is the beginning of a new trend at BYU so that young people who are prone to make a poor choice now and then can go on with their lives and not be held up to public ridicule as some would have them be. We all fall short of perfection in one way or another.

  • labman Pocatello, ID
    March 26, 2014 8:33 a.m.

    I have no opinion because I don't have the facts and circumstances. it would be stupid to try to judge the coach or the university without all the information. you can only judge from past experience here and it appears in the past, justice and mercy have been used in many instances whenever and wherever appropriate, even when it seemed contrary to public opinion. I trust is will be the same now and going forward.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    March 26, 2014 8:43 a.m.

    Thanks again Utah fans for posting on a BYU article, further demonstrating that BYU is the flagship program for the state of Utah and the most important college. If BYU is so insignificant, why are you posting on a BYU only article?

  • hobbes1012003 Kaysville, UT
    March 26, 2014 8:44 a.m.

    This article clearly states that he was "charged with possession of alcohol by a minor" It says nothing of him being drunk/drinking. 2 very different things when it comes to the law and the Honor Code. People need to stop assuming they know the entire story and accusing him of lying, or BYU for covering up for a star athlete. BYU suspended Brandon Davies right before the NCAA tournament! They could have easily kept it quiet until after the tournament and then suspend him. but they did the right thing even though it cost them a key team member during a Tourney run. So I will give Bronco and the University the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are doing everything the right way, legally and spiritually.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    March 26, 2014 8:46 a.m.

    Kudos to Bronco and Jamaal for handling this situation in an appropriate manner.

    Jamaal obviously notified Bronco and accepted personal responsibility soon after the incident. Bronco addressed it, with appropriate disciplinary measures, which Jamaal has or is meeting.

    Bronco has already demonstrated many times that he doesn't have separate standards for star athletes, so I'm more than willing to give Bronco the benefit of the doubt that Jamaal's case was handled appropriately.

    Haters will find something to whine about, regardless, so there's no point in worrying about their whines.

    Time to move on.

  • Robroy Murray, utah
    March 26, 2014 8:56 a.m.

    Thanks for the smiles Cletus.

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    March 26, 2014 8:56 a.m.

    Be in the world not of the world....

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 26, 2014 9:00 a.m.

    CordonBleu, your comments are the most hypocritical I've ever seen.

    "meaning that Whittingham and the U swept the first failed drug test(s) under the rug"

    No. It means that that first time infraction was handled by the team behind closed doors, same as happened here. Or it means that he did, and that Mendenhall "swept this under the rug" by not making a public discipline out of it.

    "pontificating about Bronco and Jamaal lying and sweeping a first offense for something much more minor under the rug."

    How is this "much more minor?" Player A violates team rules only, no legal implications. Player B charged with violating the law, university rules, and team rules.

    Before I get accused of "red goggles," please consider that I'm not condemning either player, nor am I excusing either one. Simply pointing out inconsistencies in logic.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 26, 2014 9:22 a.m.

    Darren,

    "It's hard for me to see any scenario where he is in legal trouble but not honor code trouble or vice versa."

    And yet he's in good standing with the team and byu(not in honor code trouble) and yet his legal battle is still ongoing. So the scenario you can't see happening, is happening.

    As far as lying to a judge, yes, its legal.

    How often do you see a defendant who pleads not guilty to something sentenced for the crime he commit AND then sentenced for having entered a not guilty plea, which obviously was a lie if he was sentenced for the crime right?

    Yes, its legal to lie to a judge and say you are not guilty of something you are guilty of.

    But it is against the honor code

  • Sports Are Great Salt Lake City, UT
    March 26, 2014 9:26 a.m.

    @StgtoSLC,

    If you're suggesting Blechen is player A, you must not realize that illegal drugs are illegal? After all, player A in your comments had no legal implications. You can argue he wasn't caught by the legal system. But to say there are no legal implications for multiple failed drug tests involving illegal drugs has no legal implications? Come on now.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    March 26, 2014 9:30 a.m.

    StGtoSLC

    Taking illegal drugs is ILLEGAL; so testing positive using illegal drugs is per se evidence that the athlete is doing something illegal.

    Whittingham either did exactly as Bronco did, and handled the situation internally, or he chose to ignore it, in other words, swept it under the rug.

    It's funny that you're so bothered about Whittingham being accused of sweeping it under the rug, but haven't said a word of protest about Bronco being accused of the same thing.

    Blatant hypocrisy.

    btw, unlike illegal drugs, alcohol itself is not illegal; it's only illegal for someone who is underage to possess and/or consume it. Alcohol consumption by minors happens on college campuses across the country on a daily basis, yet you don't see masses of 18-20 year old students being kicked out of college for. It's a minor offense that most colleges, including Utah, turn a blind eye towards. Can you honestly say that every one of the students drinking alcohol at Utah's tailgate parties is 21 or older?

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 26, 2014 10:19 a.m.

    Sports Are Great and skywalker, failing a University drug screening is not illegal. Also, some substances screened for are not illegal, while some are illegal only in certain parts of the country. However, Blechen knew what the team rules were, and he violated them, and was punished for it.

    "It's funny that you're so bothered about Whittingham being accused of sweeping it under the rug"

    Where did you get the idea I am "bothered" by anything here? I don't care what somebody who doesn't know a football coach thinks about him. I am amused by the irony in the accusation, however, and glad to point it out.

    "alcohol itself is not illegal; it's only illegal for someone who is underage to possess and/or consume it."

    Which he is. So it is.

    "Alcohol consumption by minors happens on college campuses across the country on a daily basis"

    So does drug use.

    "It's a minor offense that most colleges turn a blind eye towards."

    Same thing applies. Am I justifying either one? No.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    March 26, 2014 10:22 a.m.

    Uncle Rico
    Provo, UT

    "We hear about players breaking the honor code when they get arrested or when a Utah fan catches them in the act in Vegas. How many do we not hear about and are swept under the rug?"

    If you didn't hear about it, why do you assume it was swept under the rug? If I am naiive to assume that because we don't hear about it, it obviously never happens, you are equally vinndictive and bitter to accuse that it happens a lot, and only gets dealt with if it comes to light.

  • souptwins Lindon, UT
    March 26, 2014 10:45 a.m.

    Question--- Did Hadley get kicked out of school? Of course the answer is "no". For all the ranting about BYU being either too hard or too soft on players, it seems the past has shown them to hold kids accountable without going overboard. The previous media flogging seemed inappropriate. The new policy of not discussing it in public unless otherwise made public (court records or student themselves) seems more in line with what other, non-athlete students at BYU go through with the honor code. There are a whole lot of in between consequences besides "kicked out" and "swept under the rug". Many people on this board seem most offended about not being personally consulted on the matter.

  • Cougarista Salt Lake City, UT
    March 26, 2014 10:57 a.m.

    It's part of growing up, making some bad choices. Bronco handled it well and it is an issue now only because the legal system, not BYU, has made it public. Voyeurs have no place in the confessional or the coach's office. Getting rid of the Honor Code would deny students of clearly knowing what the standards are. Honor codes work well in schools that take them seriously.

  • Sports Are Great Salt Lake City, UT
    March 26, 2014 11:26 a.m.

    stgslc, - If you knew that the failed drug tests for Blechen were all a result of legal drugs, you may have a point. I think if you're honest you'd agree that scenario is probably unlikely. And yes, taking illegal drugs is illegal.

    So yes, there are legal implications when someone is taking illegal drugs. They may not have been caught by the legal system, but to suggest no relation between the legal system and doing illegal drugs - you're really stretching aren't you?

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 26, 2014 11:36 a.m.

    PAC man, where did I try, convict, and show that I'm ready to pass sentence on Jamaal? Those that are responsible for finding out what did and didn't happen will do so, and the appropriate action will be taken. The kid is a good ball player, and by all accounts a good person that makes mistakes like any other. For the record, I hope the best for him, football and otherwise. But fans who don't even know these kids that jump to judgment for one player, but hop on the defense of another are a curious sight to me, and that goes for both sides.

  • Objectified Tooele, UT
    March 26, 2014 11:42 a.m.

    By once again being one of the first to respond in a critical way to a BYU article, it's obvious Chris B's obsession with all things BYU continues. It's often annoying, but also somewhat humorous for those of us who see through him.

    It's also telling that his first and most controversial comment got pulled as not being up to comment standards.

    BYU critics always want their cake and eat it too when it comes to such things as BYU's honor code. They try to walk both sides of the fence when it comes to it's application and purpose, and always with an anti-BYU slant. Hopefully, the new policy at BYU on how these issues are handled will eventually minimize the things they find to complain about. But when there's a will, there's usually a way.

    Kudos to BYU, coach Bronco, and to Williams himself on how this was handled. All entities demonstrated some class in the needed process.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    March 26, 2014 11:50 a.m.

    Let's just say that I respect Bronco's judgment in gathering all of the pertinent facts and working out a carefully reasoned response with Jammal in private, a whole lot more than I trust the judgment of those who are simply speculating about what they think they know.

    Those who are arguing that pleading "not guilty" to a criminal charge is the same as lying, regardless of whether you did what you're charge with doing, either don't understand the law or are deliberately distorting the truth for their own purposes.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    March 26, 2014 12:01 p.m.

    "Those that are responsible for finding out what did and didn't happen will do so, and the appropriate action will be taken."

    As far as BYU is concerned, the appropriate action has already been taken. Bronco, no doubt with the approval of the Honor Code office, has already taken the appropriate action - you're just not willing to accept it, in sharp contrast to your blanket acceptance of every decision Whittingham made with regards to a similar, though arguably, more serious situation with Blechen.

  • sg newhall, CA
    March 26, 2014 12:13 p.m.

    What I find offensive is that such arrest records are public. They shouldn't be. What if the initial arrest is found to be without merit and the arrested is actually innocent? Now he/she has to explain to everyone? No. These arrest records should not be public records. The public has no need or right to know. Why is it so? What about an elected official's decision to seal all of his records to avoid public scrutiny? Is he above the same laws? When elected he is now a public official and all his records should be made available. There shouldn't be any concealment. However, arrest records should NOT be public until said arrestee is found guilty. Why should public opinion ruin a person's life? The public will always pronounce guilt rather than withhold judgment and presume he is innocent. Bronco and Jaamal took care of it. Done. It is not our place to second guess, to pass judgment. Let's move on.

  • Unbiased1979 dallas, TX
    March 26, 2014 12:24 p.m.

    Sometimes when I read these comments, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. People are really trying to make an issue of dishonesty by pleading "not guilty"? It's nice to know we have such astute legal and moral authorities to watch over BYU, its students, and the enforcement of the honor code, becuase otherwise they would find themselves in complete and total confusion. Your judgment in this area would make a Pharisee jealous.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 26, 2014 12:32 p.m.

    "you're just not willing to accept it, in sharp contrast to your blanket acceptance"

    The law has a different process of action than does the school and the football team. What action is taken there is your guess as well as mine at this point. And no, there is no "contrast" to my "blanket acceptance" of how any team handles discipline of their players. As long as it is legal, it is 100% their prerogative. Up until last year, I believe, the University of Oregon did not conduct any institutional drug screenings. Tyrann Mathieu reportedly failed somewhere around 10 University conducted drug screenings at LSU before dismissal. That's up to them. Do I necessarily agree with it? No, but it doesn't concern me, so I don't concern myself with it.

    Let me state plainly again: BYU is BYU; let them handle their business as they will. Utah is Utah; let them handle their business as they will. Live and let live.

  • haunyocker Springville, UT
    March 26, 2014 12:44 p.m.

    It is certainly reassuring to read mr. Hutterite's assertion that he is a perfect individual who has every right to throw that first stone. I've never met anyone like him. I myself exercised my youthful stupidity at approximately the same age as Jamal. I was grounded. Unlike mr. Hutterite, who apparently wishes all BYU athletes to be drawn-and-quartered in public with the maximum pain inflicted. Please note that the honorific title of "mr." is a small "m". That is because I do not wish to apply the concept of honor to mr. Hutterite.

  • souptwins Lindon, UT
    March 26, 2014 1:00 p.m.

    sg--- This particular case aside-- I strongly disagree with your assertion that arrest records should not be public. Do you want to raise daughters not knowing you have a neighbor who's served time for molestation? How about that the girl your son is thinking of proposing to has had several DUI's? They are public laws and should be known by the public. There will always be those that convict before the courts but that their problem. As public policy, it's also always good to have as much public access to govt. proceedings as possible-- including arrests & courts. If you don't want people knowing your arrest record, don't get arrested and those who convict in society need to withhold judgement for those in a position to do so. Knee jerk reactions over frustration for a few cases and a few judgmental people is not good for society.

  • Old Ricks Coach Rexburg, ID
    March 26, 2014 1:13 p.m.

    This is the first time I have ever commented although I have been reading these dialogues for a long time. I've known Duane Busby since 1984. What a great asset he was at Ricks College and at BYU. I miss him very much and wish him much happiness.

    I have wondered for a long time if BYU and Utah fans really hate each other as their comments often suggest. I would just say this: As a Utah State grad and athlete, I cheer for the Aggies when they play either BYU or Utah. When BYU plays Utah or anyone else other than the Aggies, I cheer for the Cougars. Believe it or not, I cheer for Utah against everyone they play except the Aggies and Cougars. I have been elated with some of their great wins over the years. I know lots of great people in all three of these universities and hope they all continue to build their programs and have great success. Happy day to have three D-I football schools in the same state.

  • fan in orem Orem, UT
    March 26, 2014 1:51 p.m.

    soup: An arrest and a conviction are two separate things. Many people are arrested and then are not charged with anything. They might deserve to not have that arrest record known by everyone. Someone who has been convicted of a crime has gone through the system and lost. Those records should definitely be available to the public.

  • CG Orem, UT
    March 26, 2014 3:02 p.m.

    "BYU is BYU; let them handle their business as they will. Utah is Utah; let them handle their business as they will. Live and let live."

    Then why are you here discussing how BYU should handle its business?

    Do you inject yourself into every conversation regarding a student who might have been involved in underage drinking?

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    March 26, 2014 3:56 p.m.

    "BYU is BYU; let them handle their business as they will. Utah is Utah; let them handle their business as they will. Live and let live."

    Although I agree with that, at least one Utah fan doesn't (i.e. the guy who ratted on Hadley).

    If someone breaks a school rule, the school should discipline them as they see fit according to the agreement that the student made with the school. If it's a violation of the law, then the student should answer to the law. I don't know a school other than BYU that lives up to this mentality.

    P.S. The Monikers "Where is Hadley" used by a ute fan on these boards is inappropriate and further fuels the discord between BYU and Utah fans. For a ute fan to come on a BYU article and tell BYU fans to live and let live, but then remain silent when Utah fans don't "live and let live" looks bad.

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    March 26, 2014 3:58 p.m.

    A few folks here have no clue what they are talking about. The BYU Honor code is not altered for athletes...in fact it is perhaps stricter for athletes. Sweep under the rug....don't make me laugh. Public incidents happen from time to time and just get more public when it is no ones' business. No one has the right to question what goes on behind closed doors. No one has the right to criticize any coach over incidents which are none of our business. How would you feel if your integrity was destroyed in the public by folks who have no clue what they are talking about? My personal(public) integrity has come as a result of a life of hard work and service to others. You have no right to destroy that. So let's take great care not to destroy the integrity of anyone else. As for teaching folks correct principles and letting them choose for themselves..great concept we all embrace, however we cannot forget the consequences when we make bad choices. Please get it right. We do not know if Jamaal made any bad choices...it is none of our business.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 26, 2014 4:04 p.m.

    @souptwins

    Arrest records and convictions are not the same thing. SG is talking about releasing arrest records before there is a conviction. All of your scenarios were of people already convicted. I'm not sure if I agree with SG or not but what he was advocating, and what you were trying to respond about, were two different things altogether.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 26, 2014 4:08 p.m.

    CG, where did I tell anyone "how BYU should handle its business?"

    I "injected" myself into the conversation when someone "injected" criticism of a similar Utah policy of in-house discipline, praising BYU's use of it, while citing Utah's as a cover-up.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 26, 2014 4:25 p.m.

    CSD: "For a ute fan to come on a BYU article and tell BYU fans to live and let live, but then remain silent when Utah fans don't 'live and let live' looks bad."

    That would look bad if that's what I did. However, I wasn't only telling BYU fans, but everyone. Also, the fact that I actually said the following regarding Hadley's suspension doesn't exactly support your accusation at all:

    "idablu: "'Violation of team rules' is all we need to know." I agree 100%....When players land themselves in trouble with the law, it is understandable that the information becomes public. For personal issues, there should be no reason for publicizing, no matter how entitled fans, boosters, etc. think they are to that knowledge. 8:40 p.m. Sept. 17, 2013"

  • kaysvillecougar KAYSVILLE, UT
    March 26, 2014 5:51 p.m.

    I think that's the first comment I agree w/ 54-10 on. And our favorite Uncle could learn fron just moving on.

  • GD Syracuse, UT
    March 26, 2014 6:58 p.m.

    Uncle Rico I never hear BYU pounding its chest. Students or alumni maybe. The news media wants a story so they may also. There may be more to this story in the future but right now it sounds like it has been handled. Don't make it more or less than it is. I like the new policy because it protects the student athlete.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    March 27, 2014 6:21 a.m.

    "Moving on", the key theme here sounds nice. That said, I am not sure this goes away quietly.

  • Utah Valley Guy Springville, UT
    March 27, 2014 11:30 a.m.

    It's not likely that people outside the church will ever understand BYU, much less the purpose of the honor code and its relationship to building character, repentance, and forgiveness, or the relative impact of various offenses against the honor code.

    Every situation is unique. Every individual is unique. You can't pass sweeping judgments.

    I take from Bronco's comments that Jamal handled it well by taking the initiative to confess and take steps to ensure it never happens again.

    So here's a guide for you Cougar-haters to spare you the embarrassment of misjudging situations in the future:

    DUI, sexual harassment or rape, or other felonies? Seriously serious. Expect suspension.
    Getting (someone) pregnant out of wedlock? Very serious. Expect suspension.
    Lying, cheating, stealing, and other character issues? Bad news. Depends on circumstances.
    Misdemenors? Getting drunk? Stupid sins of all sorts? Confess and forsake.

    In all cases, we're all human and make mistakes, and BYU and Bronco understand that. The discipline imposed depends on the seriousness of the offense and how long it takes to "repent," i.e. rectify the behaviors and character issues involved.