I agree with characteristics of Democracy pointed out. But Regarding the
"How can the U.S. bring democracy to nations abroad, like Iraq, Afghanistan,
Libya, Syria and the Ukraine"...The US (or any outside nation)
can not BRING Democracy to another nation. Just as Russia can't force
Socialist principles be adopted by military force (whether the people there want
it or not).They have to want it themselves, and make it happen
themselves. Democracy is a "bottom-up" thing. Not a
"top-down" thing. It comes from the people (bottom-up) not the
government/rulers (top-down).We can HELP other nations, and support
them. But we can't BRING Democracy to them. The brave experiment will not
work if they don't want it badly enough to insist on it themselves, and
respect the fallout. Because not everybody is always happy with the outcome in
a Democracy. There will always be a minority. You have to be willing to
accept that (even if YOU are in the minority). Democracies
don't always turn out the way the ruling class would like them to turn out.
And the people can also be disappointed (example Egypt).
I agree with this letter's premise, But that is not Democracy, and America is not a Democracy.It was founded on being a
Democratic Rebublic, but has morphed into a Plutocratic, Ogliarchy.Oligarchic, Plutocractic, Corporatocracy.[a Few, very Wealthy,
Corporations]The public voting has become nothing more than a
carnival sideshow to muse the masses into thinking they have some say so and
keep them revolting.
Unfortunately, OMM, you are right.
If the letter writer had substituted the words "responsible government"
in place of the word "Democracy," then I would generally agree with him.
It is not helpful when we use terms out of context and stretch the definitions
so far that the words become meaningless. Democracy means "rule by the
people"--no more and no less. It has nothing to do with individual
liberties, welfare states, laissez-faire economics, or anything else.Also, OMM, you are right. We are not a Democracy. Nor are we really a
Democratic Republic. Not any more.
I hate to tell everybody this, including Robert Shinkoskey, but the US is not a
Democracy. Gasp....Yes, we are not a Democracy. The US Constitution Section 4,
Article 4 states "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this
Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against
Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the
Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence."We
are a Republic, not a Democracy. We elect representatives to handle voting for
and enforcing laws.To "Open Minded Mormon" actually it is
morphing into a Socialist Republic. We have moved away from the original
libertarian/capitalistic ideas of the Founding Fathers, and have moved left and
are quickly approaching Fascism, but that should be passed within a couple of
decades at our current rate of decline.
Unfortunately OOM and OMM are correct.But I get the feeling their
comments are mostly aimed at one party (not both). I hope not, because if you
are intellectually honest you realize that big business owns both parties (not
just one). That's why I am critical of both parties (not just one). It
would be ludicrous to pretend just one is owned by big business.Candidate Obama said there would be no CEOs in his cabinet... but then
appoints GE CEO (John Immelt) to be his Jobs-czar and one of his closest
whitehouse advisers, even though GE is notorious for sending most of it's
jobs overseas, and paying almost no USA taxes. Hmmm... that
didn't really work out the way most people expected it would during the
hope-and-change campaign.. did it? Big business still owned the White House,
even after Bush left office. Hmmm...I think the big companies that
own American politics, are the ones that spend so much advertizing during the
liberal extravaganza they call "Meet the Press". GE, Boeing, Lockhead
Martin, Exxon Mobile, etc.But they own it... regardless of which
party is in power. Hope you realize that.
I thought mike lee said that we were a compound constitutional republic?
@Redshirt1701Deep Space 9, UtI hate to tell everybody this, ... have moved left and are quickly approaching Fascism, but 12:24
p.m. March 13, 2014========= How can we be moving LEFT
and approaching Fascism, when everyone but you knows that Fascism is
uber-far-RIGHT wing?And, Your Utopian Land of Liberty in
America still exists, but you will just have to move to that 18th century
cabin in the backwoods,dig your own well, clear your own roads, hunt your own game,pick your own berries, and hope and pray you
never need a Fireman, Policeman, or Doctor.Oh, and public utilies
[water, sewer, garbage, gas, and power] don't exist in your
neighborhood of make-believe.AndYou won't have to pay taxes! BTW -- I always find it hypocritical of those who say they
are "true Patriots", and uber- National, and are constantly trash
talking America.----@2bitsBut they own it...
regardless of which party is in power. Hope you realize that.12:32 p.m.
March 13, 2014Agreed, That's why I'm unaffiliated.
To "airnaut" if only you understood the Lef-Right political spectrum.
The fact of the matter is that on the far left you have Communism, then
progressing to the right you have Socialism, Fascism, Capitalism, then Anarchy
on the far right.So, from your Communist viewpoint, fascism is on
the right. However, if you put the center at a point where government begins to
interfere in personal lives, Fascism is on the left.The problem is
that you are looking at the Left-Right political spectrum from a point where
Communism is on the left and Socialism is to the right. This is a European
socialist view of the political spectrum. However, we are not in Europe, and
the correct vantage point is where I have listed it.Another funny
thing about you is that you say you don't believe in the "all or
nothing" view of life, yet here you show that if it isn't all
socialist, then it must be anarchy. All or nothing.
One can substitute the word Communism for democracy and you would be correct on
everything in this letter except voting. Even though an avid Communist will tell
you that Communist party members vote for their leaders.I worry that there
are people that think that social and economical engineering are the answer to
Airnaut - I have relatives that are conservative so I speak a bit of their
language. Let me translate Redshirt's response to you: "Airnaut, you
are wrong because you are using a frame of reference based on major political
philosophy and the general public's agreed-upon terminology. In order to
be correct you must use the fictitious theories that I have set forth which have
no basis in reality or political science because I just concocted them from my
basement." Redshirt - I cannot convey how hilarious it is to
see you belittling someone for not fully understanding the American political
spectrum and then watch you describe it in purely linear terms. Thank you for
providing my dose of conservative-based entertainment for the day.
@Stalwart SentinelSan Jose, CAAirnaut - I have relatives that
are conservative so I speak a bit of their language. ========== Thanks, Because I'm completely unable to make any sense of
it.I took PolSci in College, served in the United States
Military, and work for the DoD.I know I have a pretty good
idea what Left or Right is, and I have a pretty good idea who
America's REAL enemy is.Fascism LEFT-wing?I'm sure
85 million dead people from WWII just rolled over in their graves, ashes, what
To "airnaut" actually, those that died in WWII cringe everytime they see
your ilk professing that Fascism is right wing. They know that they were up
against socialists that put on a capitalist veneer. Sad when some people
won't call a collectivist a collectivist.To "Stalwart
Sentinel" it is sad when liberals claim to understand conservatives.
Studies show that liberals do not understand conservatives, but conservatives
re: Redshirt1701"and have moved left and are quickly approaching
Fascism, but that should be passed within a couple of decades at our current
rate of decline."We are not quite at V for Vendetta level but we
IMO are already a quasi-fascist nation.Look at how... 1a)
corporations and their special interests call the shots, 1b) politicians give
lip service to everyone but the rich, 2) much we idolize the military and use
force at the drop off a hat internationally, & 3) we are not a domestic
police state but obsess about being secure over being freeMost has
taken place since Reagan left office. Moral of the story... stop electing Ivy
Leaguers!!!p.s. Fascism is a left wing movement. After Progressives,
it breaks off 1 fork is to Socialism then to Communism. The other is Fascism.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. That is
why our Founding Fathers had the good sense to make our Govt. a Republic with a
Redshirt - I never claimed to understand you; I claimed that I could speak some
of your language b/c I've had to make sense of similar backwards-thinking,
fictitious arguments coming from conservatives in the past. Of
course conservatives can understand liberals but not the other way around.
Liberals have a tendency to base their reasoning on sound, logical factors such
as math, science, history, sociology, etc.... Whereas conservatives almost
exclusively base their reasoning off their own unique belief systems ie
religion. In all seriousness, go through the comments sections on the DesNews
and you'll find that nearly all the conservative commentary will stem from
people who have a very finite set of personal moral convictions that serve as
the foundation for their political assertions. Their stance on abortion,
climate change, welfare, marriage equality, you name it, are not based on the
realities of the world but rather on their predisposed views stemming from a
specific religion. For example, there are people reading this right now who
deny that climate change could ever be human-caused due to what God said to Noah
after the flood. How can you possibly expect we liberals to reason with
Stalwart,Your rant just made Red's point and illustrated it
perfectly.Not all Conservatives are religious nuts. They
aren't even all religious.They also aren't all
pro-business (on everything). The left keeps insisting that if you are
conservative... you want businesses to keep hiring illegal aliens, and
don't want to do anything to keep businesses from hiring illegal aliens.
That's your assumption, based on your stereotype for
"Conservatives". That doesn't make it true (anywhere outside your
head).Fact is... Conservatives DON'T support businesses hiring
illegal workers, and want to punish those who do (ref Bush's Comprehensive
Immigration Reform bill and all legislation on immigration they have
supported... it all focuses on verifying workers are legal, temp work permits,
and punishing companies that hire illegals).They aren't all
religious nuts, who base all their political views on their religious
beliefs.They don't hate the poor... they just have a different
way of helping them (jobs instead of handouts).They don't all
fit neatly into the left's stereotypes for them. Once you realize that...
you will be able to communicate with them.
To "Stalwart Sentinel" actually, liberals don't have a sound
reasoning methodology.Studies show that liberals do not use math,
science, or logic as the basis of their reasoning. The proof of this is simply
the fact that a majority of Scientists and Engineers are conservative. Liberals
dominate the touchy-feely fields.Go ahead and keep believing what
you want, but there is additional proof out there that Conservatives have a
better understanding of science than liberals do. See "Eureka! Tea partiers
know science" in Politico.
2 bits - Statistically speaking, nearly all conservatives do self-associate as
being religious (depending on the study, roughly 75-95%). Sorry, it's just
the factual truth. Further, when you drill down, nearly every single
social/political position taken by conservatives is based on their twisted
interpretations of religious dogma. Reason, logic, statistics, etc... do not
factor in. Rather, they use words like "believe" when discussing
climate change as though science is something you can choose not to believe.
Your foundation is based on belief, nor reality and is therefore unsound, it is
no wonder your political viewpoints follow suit.Redshirt - Pew Poll
"Only Six Percent Of Scientists Are Republicans." The article further
states 55% claim to be Democrat. You've gone to a new level of fictitious
reasoning when you claim 6 is greater than 55. Conservative math, I guess. All
facets of higher education and business demonstrate a direct correlation with
liberal leanings. Don't take my word for it - look at all the best higher
education, economic sectors, tech industry, etc.... They're all located in
liberal strongholds. Unfortunately, even the article you cite states,
"people who leaned liberal were more science literate than those who leaned
To "Stalwart Sentinel" if you look at engineers, and if you define
scientists as the hard sciences. You know, physics, Chemistry, and things like
that, the majority are conservative. Did you bother to look to see what
scientists are democrats? It is the soft sciences, you know, the ones that
don't need logic and actualy hard data.Being a Republican does
not mean that they are conservative, Lindsey Gram is proof of that.Yes education is dominated by liberals, except for the hard sciences, which
are dominated by....Conservatives. Why is it that liberals are not even 50% of
the hard sciences? Could it be that they can't handle the logic?
RedShirtUSS Enterprise, UTTo "Stalwart Sentinel" if you look
at engineers, and if you define scientists as the hard sciences. You know,
physics, Chemistry, and things like that, the majority are conservative. Did you
bother to look to see what scientists are democrats? It is the soft sciences,
you know, the ones that don't need logic and actualy hard data.Yes education is dominated by liberals, except for the hard sciences, which
are dominated by....Conservatives. Why is it that liberals are not even 50% of
the hard sciences? Could it be that they can't handle the logic?7:49 a.m. March 17, 2014========= I'm curous
RedShrit.Are you and Engineer?Have you EVER worked in the
Engineering field.I have, for over 32 years.From my own
experience, first hand account, and personal witnoess [not some Google searched
website from a agricultural alphalfa harvester in Enterprise Utah]you can
tell you that you are just flat out wrong.Most of us are Liberal.
re: LDS Aerospace Engineer & RedShirtI can see Engineers being
conservative as its a bit more cut & dried.The more
conceptual/theoretical fields(Physics, Chemistry, Social Sciences, &
Humanities) are more than likely liberal.The one field where
conservatives probably dominate is business