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In our opinion: Obama's immigration enforcement too harsh

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  • Ken Sandy, UT
    March 11, 2014 12:23 a.m.

    Inhumane to send someone home(on taxpayer dime)? Cry me a river. It's inhumane to lock criminals up in cages(prison) too huh? Obey the law or don't come

  • Pappy Saint George, UT
    March 11, 2014 12:53 a.m.

    "Even at the high rate of deportation, it would take at least 50 years for all undocumented aliens currently in the U.S. to be sent back to their countries of origin."

    Well, that's a start. Review USC Title 8 Sections 1324, 1325 and 1644. Enforce it.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    March 11, 2014 2:04 a.m.

    To make it's "record deportations" claim, the administration takes cases that would have previously been counted as "returns" and counts them as "removals." Then, they compare only their removals (and returns) to the number of removals under previous administrations. Separately, they point to the lower number of returns as evidence that the border is "more secure than ever."

    "The statistics are actually a little deceptive," Obama said last month (sept 2011) during a discussion with Hispanic journalists. There has been "a much greater emphasis on criminals than non-criminals." And "with stronger border enforcement, we've been apprehending folks at the borders and sending them back. That is counted as a deportation even though they may have only been held for a day or 48 hours."

    It's a big con job by the administration and some of the news media.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    March 11, 2014 2:30 a.m.

    What's disingenuous and cynical is tossing the 12th Article of Faith out the window in the false name of compassion and humanity.

    If it really were about compassion and humanity, we would hear about the suffering of countless Americans as a result of illegal immigration. We would hear about the moral corruption of children as a result of teaching them that there is a reward for breaking the law -- which incidentally is what legalization what do. But alas all we hear in this regard is crickets.

    And surely the Deseret News is aware that by his own admission, Obama and his administration falsely count border turnaways as deportations, knowing that this will mislead many Americans.

    The fact is that under Obama, real deportations -- i.e., from the nation's interior -- have gone way down. And obviously Obama has promised illegal aliens virtual immunity at the law.

    Deportation is a basic standard of immigration law enforcement. The notion that such enforcement is immoral or inhumane, is the lie of the century.

    Where propagandists are able to succeed in inculcating this lie, immigration law effectively ceases to exist.

    Society then breaks down, as we are witnessing.

  • IMAPatriot2 PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    March 11, 2014 4:43 a.m.

    In my opinion Obama's immigration enforcement and that of previous administrations is too little too late. I don't know of any nation that has borders as porous as ours nor any country who allows over 12 million illegal immigrants to live openly and freely without much effort to find and deport them. No nation can be sovereign or last long with this lack of border control.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    March 11, 2014 5:35 a.m.

    Come now; Obama is not the great deporter. The Editor should know this. Obama himself admits that his deportations are an apples-to-oranges comparison to real deportations. He has focused on convicted violent felons.
    His big numbers come from catching illegal aliens at the border and sending them home before they even enter the country. Previous administrations have NOT counted those as deportation.
    Additionally Obama has been lax at the job of interior enforcement.
    *He halted worksite raids.
    *He gutted local partnerships like Secure Communities and 287g.
    *He rescinded standing deportation orders for 300,000 illegal aliens.
    *He unilaterally gave two year visas to the DREAMers.
    There are dozens of additional examples if the Editor would simply research the question. FAIR USA has a pretty good list.
    The DN is blinded by its own position and refuses to see the reality.

  • GaryO Virginia Beach, VA
    March 11, 2014 6:53 a.m.

    Really? In the opinion of the Deseret news, "Obama's immigration enforcement too harsh?"

    And then you go on to say, "The administration has authorized immigration authorities to use 'prosecutorial discretion' and avoid applying deportation procedures against those who were brought here as children."

    Gosh, Obama has been lambasted in the Deseret News by Right Wing commenters for not enforcing every law to the maximum.

    And he's been ridiculed for over-stepping his bounds and micro-managing.

    But now when he enforces the law as written and then allows prosecutors the discretion to handle these cases as they see fit, that's wrong too . . . In the eyes of Right Wingers.

    In other words, there is absolutely no way Obama can please Right Wingers, even if he does exactly what they say they want him to do.

    It's no wonder he's pretty much stopped asking for input from Republicans. The nation would be much better off if Obama simply ruled by executive fiat.

  • Jamescmeyer Midwest City, USA, OK
    March 11, 2014 7:06 a.m.

    With illegal immigration and related ills becoming more and more of a problem, it's natural that deportations would increase, independent of what someone in as high and unrelated a position as the president would say in the matter. It really sounds more like another attempt to blame something on the Republican-lead Congress; despite hunger for latino votes, the latter is hesitant to begin any type of reform because the president, if given the chance, would absolutely -not- support or enforce deportations or border security.

    Besides that, what are "Latino advocacy groups" and what do they care about it? If a bunch of caucasians were moving to Japan illegally, some bringing destructive drugs and violence while more avoid undergoinging any form of assimilation, would it be reasonable for a "white advocacy group" to insist that they should be able to do so?

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    March 11, 2014 7:19 a.m.

    If and I say if, Obama has been this aggressive in immigration enforcement it is one of the few things that he has done that I support. The government needs to be aggressive in enforcement which would send a message that if you come here through the back door you will suffer the consequences. And why not. Deportation is only one tool to use but we need to use them all. Granting anything that smells like amnesty will only encourage more to break the law. Head em up and move em out.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    March 11, 2014 7:32 a.m.

    Oh my! Another right wing paradox. Obama enforces immigration laws too much AND he enforces them too little. Kind of like saying Obama is a tyrant AND a mom-jeans wearing wimp. Consistency folks, consistency. Not your strong suit.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    March 11, 2014 7:38 a.m.

    Regardless of how you want to use the statistics, it would be hard to make any case that Obama is worse on immigration than the 6 years of Republican controlled House, Senate and Presidency under GWB.

    The GOP talks tough immigration policy when they are not in power, but do little when they have control.

    Just like the deficit. Just like healthcare. Just like social programs. Just like entitlement programs.

    Like Clinton said. "It takes some brass to attack a guy for doing what you did"

    Or in this case, "for not doing what you didn't do"

  • Upson Downs Sandy, UT
    March 11, 2014 8:03 a.m.

    How is an illegal suppose to be given the chance to "make it right" like the LDS Church suggests unless he/she is sent back to their country of origin and made to do it the legal way like everyone should do it in the first place?

  • NobodySpecial Alpharetta, GA
    March 11, 2014 8:34 a.m.

    When reading the comments of those who so strongly oppose immigration reform on the grounds that illegal immigrants have broken the law, I am reminded of the tongue-in-cheek observation of Anatole French:

    "In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread."

    One wonders how many of these strict followers of the law, had they had been born into a dirt-poor pueblo in El Salvador with a family to feed, would hold the same harsh opinions on violations of immigration law.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    March 11, 2014 8:39 a.m.

    To Conservatives -- this man can do nohting right, ever!
    Their myopic bias and ought right hatred taints all reality.

    Too hard on immigratnion,
    Not hard enough on immigration.

    Too hard on spending cuts,
    Not hard enough on spending cuts.

    Too hard on the Middle East,
    Not hard enough on the Middle East.

    Too involved in Foreign affairs,
    Not involved enough in Foreign affaris.

    He's too black,
    He's too white.

    We get it,
    You hate all things Obama.

    Now, move along.

  • Dragline Orem, UT
    March 11, 2014 9:01 a.m.

    President Obama needs to take action against those who hire illegal immigrants as well. We would have no illegal immigration problem if jobs were not available. We should condemn both employer and employee equally.
    If we are arresting and deporting illegal immigrants, maybe hefty fines and loss of property would be in order for those employers who do not use e-verify and make bank on the backs of illegal workers.

    Or maybe we should just disenfranchise those who use illegal workers. We can take away their citizenship and just drop off the employee and the employer across the border. They can then, as Upson Downs says above, let employers "make it right."
    Or in the words of Mohokat in these comments, "Head 'em up and move 'em out." All of them.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 11, 2014 9:04 a.m.

    Bickering about which administration did better on deporting illegal aliens is useless. Bush has been out of office for years. What he did is irrelevant. What we are doing now and what we will do in the future is relevant.

    I think deporting people here illegally is humane. It's better than putting them in jail, and we can't just look the other way.

    A lot of Americans are out of work and looking for jobs. I would assume it's the same in the illegal alien community (many unemployed and desperately looking for jobs). At least American citizens can collect unemployment to carry their families over while they look for a job. Illegal aliens don't even have that. They have to be super desperate. And desperate people will do things they would never do otherwise to insure their children survive (which sometimes means illegal activities to make money).

    This can't be a great existence. In a country where you can't speak the language. You can't legally work. Always hiding. If someone hurts you or takes advantage of you... you can't call the police.

    Maybe these people are better off in their homeland...

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    March 11, 2014 9:13 a.m.

    Upson Downs
    Sandy, UT
    How is an illegal suppose to be given the chance to "make it right" like the LDS Church suggests unless he/she is sent back to their country of origin and made to do it the legal way like everyone should do it in the first place?

    8:03 a.m. March 11, 2014

    ===========

    It's called "Amnesty".

    "A pardon extended by the government to a group or class of persons, usually for a political offense; the act of a sovereign power officially forgiving certain classes of persons who are subject to trial but have not yet been convicted."

    Without coming right out and saying it,
    that is what is implied.

    It's perfectly legal,
    and Saint Ronald Reagan did it back in 1986.

  • the old switcharoo mesa, AZ
    March 11, 2014 9:39 a.m.

    I'm gathering more evidence that politics is just like professional wrestling. It's social engineering manipulated at a higher level than the players we see.

    To get a percentage of the population to change their minds on a subject completely, you just change the label of the player from Republican to Democrat and do the same things. Many will change their minds about it based on their group affiliation.

    If NAFTA designs and allows the free flow of goods across borders, it should do at least the same for PEOPLE! NAFTA isn't designed to improve the free market at all, but to manipulate it and drive down labor costs. Without the artificial disparity between labor costs there is NO incentive for NAFTA at all since all goods given equal labor and other production costs would be made closest to the point of production within the range of economies of scale.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    March 11, 2014 9:43 a.m.

    Obama enforcing the law. What an oxymoron. He so far hasn't done too good of a job with the Affordable Care Act. He keeps skirting the law on that one, only for political gain.

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    March 11, 2014 10:31 a.m.

    Deseret News and KSL's non-stop propaganda and support for the breaking of existing laws is incredibly naive and unwise. Maybe they can explain the good that comes from selective obedience. Anarchy comes to mind.

  • kiddsport Fairview, UT
    March 11, 2014 11:02 a.m.

    Obama has never, ever, executed any law to the letter. Obama has never, ever, honestly sought input from Republicans and has admitted he will never, ever, negotiate with the "enemy" (his words).
    Reagan and the Republicans agreed to the first amnesty in return for a Democrat agreement that workplace enforcement would be stiffened. Reagan later came to regret that agreement because, guess what? the workplace enforcement never happened. Goes to show you just can't trust political promises.
    The lack of workplace enforcement is what is referred to in law as an attractive nuisance. Without uncontrolled workplace opportunities, deportation becomes a moot point.
    Old switcheroo:
    Do you even know what economies of scale means? NAFTA was intended to increase opportunities in our neighbor's country, lifting their standard of living so that they could afford to purchase things made in the U.S. Unfortunately, the devil is in the details and there are too many special interests who want the field tilted in their favor, rather than a level playing field. When you allow the free flow of PEOPLE across a border, you don't have a border.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 11, 2014 11:07 a.m.

    @Open Minded Mormon,

    It must be nice having airnaut and Pagan always backing up everything you say.

    They also have very similar formatting to their comments too.

    -------
    -------

    How interesting

    --------

    You disagree with "your" church on other items, so I see no reason why Maple Don couldn't.

    --------

    I believe people should be punished for breaking the law, not rewarded

    -------

    It is hypocritical for people to support illegal immigration and then cry when corporations send jobs overseas.

    Either situation ends with law abiding Americans losing jobs to non-Americans.

    There is no difference.

    Other than one is legal and other is not of course.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 11, 2014 11:23 a.m.

    airnaut (aka "Open Minded Mormon")

    If you will read my post... you will see that I didn't blame anybody (Bush or Obama). I just think we need to focus on what we do now, and from here on, instead of Bush-bashing or Reagan-bashing (which is useless). You are so partisan... it's almost useless to respond but I will.

    I don't think ANY administration has succeeded on illegal immigration. I have never praised Bush on this, or Reagan.

    I have pointed out what a failure Reagan's amnesty program was. Giving amnesty back then didn't fix anything... we just have 11 million MORE illegal residents now.

    Bush also failed. His "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" bill didn't pass. And even if he did... it would have been a failure. It fixed nothing.

    I haven't criticized Obama yet, because he hasn't done anything yet (on immigration reform). Sure he deported a lot of people... but they keep coming faster than they can be deported.

    What has Obama actually done that we should praise him??

  • SoCalChris Riverside, CA
    March 11, 2014 11:52 a.m.

    Why shouldn't there be prosecutorial discretion in immigration, just like every other area of law enforcement. Focus on deporting the bad apples.

    I wonder how many on this thread saw the case of the German family differently -- the family who came here so they could home school.

  • NobodySpecial Alpharetta, GA
    March 11, 2014 12:15 p.m.

    The callousness and lack of empathy displayed in most comment threads regarding immigration is distressing and surprising given the high regard with which I hold Utahns in general. But to those who may be reading through these comments, its important to keep in mind that those insensitive comments do not reflect the feeling of the majority of Utahns or of the the Mormon Church. Utahns are widely recognized as being kind to a fault and not given to xenophobia, due I think in part to their missionary work in other countries. They recognize that illegal aliens are human beings, and generally support efforts to transition them to legal status - something that is not only better for the immigrants, but better for all of us.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 11, 2014 12:33 p.m.

    DMN... Please define "TOO Harsh"...

    If deportation is "too harsh"... What would be satisfactory?

    I mean "immigration enforcement" by it's definition, involves the possibility of deportations.. right?

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    March 11, 2014 12:41 p.m.

    One thing the editorial highlights is the civil war between conservatives. One thing the comments show is that no matter what, conservatives will never, ever say anything nice about the President or give him credit, even on things they claim they would otherwise like. No wonder the conservative ideology has no future. There is no leadership, no consistency, and no integrity.

  • U-tar Woodland Hills, UT
    March 11, 2014 1:46 p.m.

    Build a better wall, send illegals home, set up a better immigration system, then come legally, and then become an American.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 11, 2014 1:55 p.m.

    Esquire,
    I think you are generalizing too much. I get the feeling if even a few "conservatives" didn't say anything nice about Obama... you would post that conservatives can't say anything nice about Obama.

    You need to read all the comments, not just the ones that fit what you are looking for. You will see that all Conservatives can't be lumped together into your little stereotype-based world.

    I consider myself to be a Conservative, and I don't think Obama has done any worse than any past president on Immigration Enforcement. NONE have focused on enforcement. None of their policies have ended the flood of people coming to the country illegally (not just Obama).

    But we don't have to genuflect to Obama on his stellar record on Immigration Enforcement. I mean exactly what enforcement improvements has he supported?? All administrations have done some deporting. But that doesn't fix the actual problem. How has Obama himself encouraged enforcement?

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    March 11, 2014 2:25 p.m.

    U-tar
    Woodland Hills, UT
    Build a better wall, send illegals home, set up a better immigration system, then come legally, and then become an American.

    1:46 p.m. March 11, 2014

    ========

    Sounds easy enough,
    Pray tell --
    How are you going to pay for all that,

    and
    pay for the Middle East Wars for oil,
    and
    not raise taxes on the uber-wealthy making over $1 million a year?

    If you can answer just ONE of those questions, you might be onto to something.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    March 11, 2014 2:30 p.m.

    "I get the feeling if even a few "conservatives" didn't say anything nice about Obama... you would post that conservatives can't say anything nice about Obama."

    Cmon 2 bits. You hear the rhetoric. It is not that people are not saying "anything nice about Obama"

    There is seething hatred. The likes of which we have never seen towards virtually any politician.
    Yes, some said some terrible things about Bush, but this is a new level. And it is certainly condoned by the GOP party leadership.

    We certainly have the right to disagree with someones, anyone's politics. But so many on the right (not every one, but a vast majority) make it blatantly personal.

    Those who think that this is exactly the same way Bush was treated are either blind, or willfully ignorant.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 11, 2014 2:51 p.m.

    airnaut,

    Sounds easy enough,
    Pray tell --
    How are you going to pay for all that,

    ------
    ------

    Really not that complicated. The money we will save on education costs(for not overcrowding schools with illegal immigrants), health care costs we wont be paying when illegal immigrants with no insurance go to the hospital, law enforcement costs we wont be paying on crimes that illegal immigrants commit(besides illegally immigrating) will more than pay for a better wall.

    And a bus ride home costs significantly less than we're paying to have them here.

    Did you really not understand that?

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 11, 2014 2:53 p.m.

    Joe Blow - Anyone who thinks bush was treated any different is living in la la land.

    I'll show you a positive comment I've made about barack for every positive comment you can show me you've made about Bush.

    Good luck!

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    March 11, 2014 2:54 p.m.

    2 bits, you are twisting like a pretzel with your arguments. The numbers show that Obama has vigorously enforced the laws on immigration at an unprecedented level. I have an insider view on the issue as is it being handled at DOJ. How's that for an answer to your question? Even with it, and the assertion of the editorial, you still minimize the efforts of the Administration. I tend to agree with the editorial. It is more correct, and the standard conservative talking position is wrong. And when the President takes action more to your liking, conservative say he is no different than any other President. Again, the hatred for the President transcends logic, and reinforces my view that "... the conservative ideology has no future. There is no leadership, no consistency, and no integrity."

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    March 11, 2014 3:03 p.m.

    2 bits, in addition, you say I "would post that conservatives can't say anything nice about Obama." Yes, you are correct about that. That is pretty much a major theme of my first comment. Your comments have done nothing to dissuade me from that position. If you say something nice about him, without a begrudging attitude (which you didn't do in your comment), then I suppose I could reconsider my "little stereotype-based world", as you put it. Let me be perfectly clear (to quote a GOP hero), even when the President does something conservatives like, they find a way to criticize him. Some of the other commenters aptly highlight this.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    March 11, 2014 3:20 p.m.

    Here you go Cris

    I think Bush was a decent guy. I liked him. I voted for him.

    I believe he did a great job at bringing the country together after 911.
    He wanted the best for the country. He is a very patriotic American.

    I also believe that he felt in his heart that invading Iraq was a necessary move.

    I can assure you that while I disagreed about Iraq, and felt it was a very bad move, I never once made the kind of personal attacks that you hear daily from the right wing.

    Obama is not running the country vastly differently than Bush did. But gets classified as an American hating socialist. Funny (or sad) how that works.

    Bush was center right, Obama is center left. But not vastly different in how they govern.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    March 11, 2014 3:44 p.m.

    As to Obama's planned reforms, President Uchtdorf has been quoted "He was talking about his principles and what he said was totally in line with our values."

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 11, 2014 4:00 p.m.

    Joe,

    And bush got criticized as a warmonger who hated minorities. Anyone who thinks the liberals treated(and continue to treat) bush any better than conservative treat barack are cherry picking bits and pieces of reality. And that's sad.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    March 11, 2014 4:30 p.m.

    The Washington times in the February 25th issue reported "The Obama administration regularly cuts a break for businesses that violate immigration hiring rules, reducing their fines by an average of 40 percent from what they should be, according to an audit released Tuesday that suggests the government could be doing more to go after unscrupulous employers.

    According to the audit, conducted by the Homeland Security Department’s inspector general, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement cut one business’s fine from $4.9 million to slightly more than $1 million — a 78 percent drop."

    Nothing would stop illegal immigration faster than forcing business to follow the laws of the land.

    I see the lack of immigration enforcement as a mirror of our broken moral compasses.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    March 11, 2014 4:38 p.m.

    The Department of Homeland Securities site shows much different numbers, here are the numbers of deported, returned at border, and turned back by customs at airports and sea ports. Office of Immigration Statistics, 1996...1,649,986, 1997...1,536,520, 1998...1,679,439, 1999...1,714,035, 2000...1,814,729, 2001...1,387,486, 2002...1,062,270, 2003...1,046,422, 2004...1,264,232, 2005...1,291,065, 2006...1,206,417, 2007...960,772, 2008...1,043,863, 2009...869,857, 2010...752,329, 2011...641,633. These are much different numbers than the administration is trying to sell the public. Add in the waivers given to young adults, and ICE being told not to stop anyone who could be eligible for waivers and our borders are more porous than ever. The promise of amnesty or waivers to work without prosecution is like a huge welcome sign at the border.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    March 11, 2014 4:41 p.m.

    I love comments like this….

    "I believe people should be punished for breaking the law, not rewarded"

    And yet people like Scooter Libby and Oliver North were granted political pardons for their breaking of the law. I have even been let off the hook by the occasional State Trooper for my excessive led foot. In fact 95% of the people on i-15 are let off the hood daily between Salt Lake and Utah valley.

    There are lots of people who are not prosecuted because doing so would overwhelm the system. The number of tax cheats is in the millions - but we can't afford to audit them all. We've already discussed driving violations. We don't lock up every drug user, or person caught intoxicated. We have fathers that abuse their wives and children… and those who are not honest in all their dealing… the list goes on.

    So before we go all pius, and start claiming personal perfection…. remember we all do something wrong on occasion. Some are done in secret…often many times are.

    The most intriguing thing is just how partisan the responses have been, and how intellectually dishonest by itself is.

  • jmfay denver, co
    March 11, 2014 5:00 p.m.

    Please be accurate as you are a reputable newspaper when you report news. This President has changed how deportees are counted.

    The BP returns regularly the people they catch by the border. Obama now tells them to turn them over to ICE and ICE counts them as removals when in fact they are returns. Removals are those caught in the interior of the country. Removals need an order from someone / body to remove them while returns do not.

    Obama has already told Hispanic reporters that this is what he was doing so why arent you reporting this? and this man has also told ICE you cant deport "Dreamers, relatives of the military personnel; those who are care givers for small children / the elderly, etc. There is no way he is the Deporter in Chief when all the numbers have gone way down since he became President.

    These are facts. You can check them with any Govt entity you chose that reports these numbers. Every President since Carter has better numbers then Obama.

    No amnesty. No work permits. No nothing but deportation and please reduce legal immigration including refugees to 100000 per year.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    March 11, 2014 5:14 p.m.

    For those quoting the LDS church.

    D&C 42: 79, 84-86
    84 And if a man or woman shall rob, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.
    85 And if he or she shall steal, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.
    86 And if he or she shall lie, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.
    Enforcing laws does not show a lack of compassion, on the contrary, it teaches people right from wrong, and helps them down the path of righteousness.

    It's impossible to follow the 12th article of faith, and scripture, and to support amnesty. It just creates more problems, and encourages more people to lie, steal and covet.

    Prosecutorial discretion does not follow our Constitution that calls for equal justice under the law.

    All Churches are between a rock and a hard place on returning the 11 million. Threats by other countries to stop their missionary work give them pause to think. But in the end they must follow Gods teachings and laws. Amnesty creates more dishonesty and a breaking down of our countries laws. Cheap illegal labor costs everyone.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    March 11, 2014 7:22 p.m.

    @marxist

    "As to Obama's planned reforms, President Uchtdorf has been quoted 'He was talking about his principles and what he said was totally in line with our values.'"

    ------

    Yes. And President Uchtdorf also said, several months later, in General Conference,

    "And, to be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes. There may have been things said or done that were not in harmony with our values, principles, or doctrine."

    So there ya go.

    The true doctrine concerning illegal immigration is clear enough. 12th and 13th Articles of Faith. 8th, 9th, and 10th Commandments. There really is no valid justification for teaching children -- by way of legalization -- that dishonesty and illegality eventually will pay off.

    Condoning wrongdoing is not compassion. Nor is it true love for one's neighbor. True love and compassion is sending one's neighbor along the path of righteousness. All illegal aliens should be deported, every last one of them, as they are caught. Then perhaps the children of illegal aliens will have some hope, morally speaking.

    And most will self-deport in the first place, if they see that the country is serious about enforcement.

  • Spoc Ogden, UT
    March 11, 2014 9:56 p.m.

    A more serious long term problem than employment is the linguistic division being created when the influx makes it possible to get by without learning English, supporting cultural animosity instead of harmony.

    An awful lot of the discord is in countries linguistically divided. Crimean residents want to be part of Russia because they do not share the language with the rest of Ukraine. Same with parts of Georgia occupied by Russia. Except for the Supreme court, the Flemish north and French south have effectively divided Belgium into two separate countries. French Quebec wants to break from Canada, North and South Ireland, Hebrew and Arabic Israel, the Balkan countries, middle east immigrant riots in France, etc.

    What is the future of this country when enough people here have divided loyalty and want a vote to move the Mexican border north of Los Angeles or San Antonio?

    Let's help them build their economy so they won't feel compelled to abandon their homeland and families just to eat.

    No, we do not need to eliminate all immigration. A little rain is good for the garden. But too much too quickly and all you have is a swamp.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    March 12, 2014 5:45 a.m.

    "It's impossible to follow the 12th article of faith, and scripture, and to support amnesty. "

    Really - where does it say that? So when James Buchanan as President of the United States offered up "amnesty" to the residents of the state of Utah on April 6th, 1858 in the "PROCLAMATION ON THE REBELLION IN UTAH" following the Utah Wars... that was wrong. Doing so - in your words - "just creates more problems, and encourages more people to lie, steal and covet. "

    On when on January 5th, 1893, Amnesty was offered all lDS people who were found to have violated Polygamy laws.... that was wrong..... because it just leads to.... really?

    History really doesn't support your claims here amigo. Amnesty has been used again and again. It doesn't mean the person being granted amnesty didn't do something wrong, but that they were being forgiven for those errors. I think you will not find any problem finding versus to quote on forgiveness..... or turning the other cheek.

  • SoCalChris Riverside, CA
    March 12, 2014 8:02 a.m.

    My thoughts exactly BlueDevil. I'm pretty sure Elder Uchtdorf is well aware of the 12th Article of Faith. So are the rest of the Brethren. The 12th AOF and immigration reform, or even full blown amnesty, are not mutually exclusive. The scriptures are replete with examples of forgiving trespasses. The Church has made several moderate, compassionate statements on immigration.

    Those who are obsessed with the 12th AOF to exclusion of the rest of the scriptures and official statements from the Church remind me of Inspector Javert in Les Miserables who was incapable of understanding anything but the law. Man-made laws may be changed and punishment can be adjusted.

  • scrappy do DRAPER, UT
    March 12, 2014 9:08 a.m.

    when it mattered, The English Navy and every Englishman with a boat evacuated over 300,000 soldiers from Dunkirk in about 3 days with the Nazis pounding at them by sea, air and land every single minute of every single day.. I think if we put our minds to it we could deport every illegal in this country in about 60 days. Don't tell me it can't be done.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    March 12, 2014 4:54 p.m.

    UtahBlueDevil

    That's a horrible analogy. Did the pioneers steal the Native American's ID's and use them to find work? Did they lie about being a Native American when applying for work, did they covet the Nation they had built?

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    March 13, 2014 12:10 a.m.

    @SoCalChris

    Show me even one statement signed by the First Presidency stating that the 12th and 13th Articles of Faith and the 8th, 9th, and 10th Commandments -- all of which make it clear that illegal immigration is wrong -- have been repealed. No such statement exists. And no, incognito press releases by the NON-priesthood Public Affairs Office do not count.

    So do you believe that a man trying to make a better life for himself and his family have a right to rob a bank? To shoplift? If not, why not?

    If so, would it possibly have anything to do with the cheap labor illegal aliens make available to unscrupulous American businessmen?

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    March 13, 2014 6:57 a.m.

    OK so the article claims that 2 million deportations have occured during the Obama admin. Well, one of the claims I hear from the Bill O'Reillys of the world, and others, is that there is no way we can deport all of the 11 million illegals already here. 2 million is a good percentage of that, and in only 5 years. Maybe deportation of the current illegal population is the right way to go. Inhumane, yes, but, this country cannot afford to continue to be the welfare office of the world. And, strong measures like this, which I might add is the norm for most every other country in the world, might discourage further illegal entries into America. The main issue that everyone, no matter what political stripe should agree with is that when people come in illegally, so does cocaine, and heroin. Those are chemical warfare against our people. Stop the people and you stop much of the drugs.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    March 13, 2014 1:21 p.m.

    Deportation is not inhumane. Disappointing? Probably. Inconvenient? Probably. But inhumane? No.

    The special interest groups who claim that it is inhumane include unscrupulous employers who employ illegal aliens as a way to avoid having to pay their fellow American a fair wage. Thus we see a relentless propaganda campaign designed to falsely convince Americans that deportation is both inhumane and impossible when in truth, it is neither.

    Inhumanity is teaching children that dishonesty, illegality, and disrepsect for one's neighbor is the right way and that it eventually will pay off in legalization of residency status.

    True humanity is sending one's neighbor along the path of righteousness. The fact is, illegal aliens may return to their home countries and there raise their children with honor and in righteousness and make a fine contribution to their communities and build up their own countries.

    Nor is deportation impossible. The nation need only make it clear that illegal aliens are in fact subject to the law and to meaningful penalty if caught in the country illegally instead of basically promising them that they are immune to the law as we do now. Most would then self-deport.