It's easy to see why BYU is projected to be in the tournament, while Utah
isn't even being considered for an at-large bid.#35 BYU(21-10),
SOS OOC #8, SOS Conf #128, SOS Overall #33#82 Utah(19-9), SOS OOC #338,
SOS Conf #33, SOS Overall #97BYU is 7-6 vs RPI Top 100Utah is
5-8 vs RPI Top 100BYU has simply won more games against a much
As many were saying when this season's schedule was first announced, the
Utes killed their NCAA tourney chances before the season started with their
pathetically weak pre-conference schedule.
It's interesting how all of these BYU fans have to take these peripheral
moral victories to make themselves feel better, when their teams can't
actually take a victory in head to head competition.
It's obvious that BYU fans are hurting that Utah isn't going dancing
this year. How else do you explain the obsession about our OOC schedule.As far as this Ute is concerned this was a great year. The goal was to
resurrect the basketball program, mission accomplished. We showed we can
compete in the PAC-12 and are about a year away from competing for the PAC-12
title. @UteanymousSagarin isn't impressed with BYU
finishing #2 in the WCC:#43 Utah #44 BYUBYU is a
bubble team after going to the NIT last year. Great accomplishment.
UteologyEast Salt Lake City, Utah"Sagarin isn't
impressed with BYU finishing #2 in the WCC:#43 Utah#44
BYU"I don't know, Uteology, did you get permission from byu
fans to use this ranking. That won't make them happy. LOL!!Totally agree, this was a great year as the Utes proved they can compete in
the Pac-12 and that they are on an upward trajectory. Given where the program
was just 2 years ago (and several years before that) the turnaround is
remarkable. Coach K is getting it done and doing it quickly. Frankly, I think
it bothers our friends at byu. Rose was handed a healthy program and has done
nothing with it. Coach K has turned the Utes around and the are headed into the
spotlight. One more year!Go Utes!!
Sagarin's ranking obviously doesn't mean much if BYU is in line to be
one of the 68 teams invited to the Big Dance, while Utah will once again be left
on the outside looking in at the NCAA tourney.As usual, the Utes are
already talking about next season, before March Madness has even begun.Rose was handed a 9-21 team, that he immediately elevated to a 20-9, NIT
team.coach k was handed a 13-18 team, that he immediately tore apart to
produce a 6-25 team.
Utah is 1-3 against the top 25, including taking a No. 1 team to overtime.That said, the RPI doesn't mathematically model anything, has a
pretty poor correlation with more rigorous systems, and is a poor predictor of
Scenic View speaks volumes. OUCH!!Talk about coaches;Can anyone
guess which coach has 9 consecutive 20 win seasons?Can anyone name the
coach that made it to the final four of the NIT last year?Can anyone name
the coach that has made it to the NCAA tourney multiple times while head coach?
"the RPI doesn't mathematically model anything, has a pretty poor
correlation with more rigorous systems, and is a poor predictor of
performance..."Which of course explains why #35 RPI BYU is
projected by most prognosticators to be IN the Big Dance, while #82 RPI Utah is
hardly mentioned.Of the 68 brackets in the latest Bracket Matrix,
BYU is included in 56, including ESPN and Yahoo; Utah is only included in one
Welcome to another Utah story BYU fans. Your gloating is peculiar given that
both the BPI and Sagarin have Utah ranked higher than the Y, not to mention the
Utes handed the Cougars their worst loss of the season. Per Sagarin
Utah is 3-5 vs. top 100 while BYU is 3-6. Your team's performance
doesn't warrant smack talk given their propensity to lose to the basement
of the WCC (see Loyola, Pepperdine, Pacific & Portland). Seriously, who
gets blown out by Loyola Mary? If BYU delivers another one of those
spectacular performances in the first round of the WCC tourney, they will be out
of the NCAA for sure.
Idaho UteIt's interesting how all of these Utah fans have to
justify their conference bottom dwelling status by pretending that one game
makes as season.-----------------Mike JohnsonUtah is 0-2 versus ranked teams - UCLA isn't ranked in either poll.Against RPI Top 25BYU 2-4 (33%)Utah 1-3 (25%)Against RPI Top 100BYU 7-6 (54%)Utah 5-8 (38%)Worst
lossesBYU at #198 LMUUtah at #200 WSUTWO of BYU's
21 wins came against Bottom 100 (250+) or non-D1 teamsEIGHT of Utah's
19 wins came against Bottom 100 (250+) or non-D1 teams
UUWhen you can't dispute the most germane fact - that BYU is
projected to be in the NCAA tourney and Utah isn't - whine about the source
or pretend that something else is more important.
midpacmajorNice job blowing up UU's cherry-picked stats and
rankings.Unlike football, Sagarin's basketball rankings have
never had much sway with the post-season selection committee.
But seriously folks!Salt Lake City, UTScenic View speaks volumes.
OUCH!!Talk about coaches;Can anyone guess which coach has 9
consecutive 20 win seasons?Can anyone name the coach that made it to the
final four of the NIT last year?Can anyone name the coach that has made it
to the NCAA tourney multiple times while head coach?______Yeah, talk about the coaches.Outside of Provo and wishful thinking
Cougar fans everywhere else, who cares about your list?
It's laughable how Utah fans are so averse to the logical response to the
article "A look at Utah's RPI breakdown;" that is, comparing the
breakdown of Utah's RPI with the breakdown of BYU's RPI.Of
course, when the comparison shows #35 BYU is MUCH, MUCH better than #82 Utah,
it's easy to see why Utah fans refuse to go there.
WACpaddledActually, Coach Rose is very well respected nationally and
has one of the best records of any coach over the last nine years.Unfortunately, the same can't be said of any of Utah's coaches since
@wacpaddledAnd outside of slc who cares about utah at all? The
answer is ovious, absolutely no one, based on the fact they haven't been n
the ncaa tourney in almost a decade and are getting absolutely no support to be
included in it again this year.Now I will admit utah is an improved
team this year,but a god portion of that has to be attributed to their woeful
pre season schedule. It was just about the most horrendous in the entire country
and accounts for more than half of their wins. Despite them being able to beat
BYU for the first time in 7 tries, and only the second time in around a dozen
tries, they would still be a sub .500 team if they had just played a halfway
decent OOC schedule.Yes it is nice to see some improvement, their
last several years have been a humiliation to the entire state, but they are not
NCAA material a shown in the fact exactly no one considers them to be ncaa
@ Elkhorn: Elkhorn Loveland, CO
"Actually, Coach Rose is very well respected nationally and has one of the
best records of any coach over the last nine years. Unfortunately,
the same can't be said of any of Utah's coaches since Majerus
left." Have you conducted a national poll to validate your
statement? Didn't think so. For your information, Coach
Krystkowiak played and coached in the NBA. I'm betting he has plenty of
respect nationally. Furthermore, he coaches in a major conference which is
several notches above the WCC. Go Utes!
Uteology"BYU is a bubble team after going to the NIT last year.
Great accomplishment."Yes, we know...BYU making it
to the NIT final four last season and only being a bubble team this season is a
great accomplishment (sarcasm noted).Of course, if you were talking
about Utah, you would be categorizing the same accomplishment as an utterably,
unbelievably, amazing accomplishment.
@scenic viewRose was handed a 9-21 team, that he immediately
elevated to a 20-9, NIT team.coach k was handed a 13-18 team, that he
immediately tore apart to produce a 6-25 team.-------------Rose was handed a program that Steve Cleveland turned around after going 15-13
and 1-25. How do you not know your own history? Why are you giving Rose credit
for what Cleveland did?1995–1996 Reid 15–13 1996–1997 Reid/Ingle 1–251997–1998 Cleveland
9–211998–1999 Cleveland 12–161999–2000
Cleveland 22–112000–2001 Cleveland 24–92001–2002 Cleveland 18–122002–2003 Cleveland
23–92003–2004 Cleveland 21–92004–2005
Cleveland 9–21 2005–2006 Rose 20–9Coach K
was handed a program that was at it's lowest point in history.Even with a weak OOC Utah is headed to the NIT, same place BYU was last
year.BYU, WCC #2, is a bubble team.
Duckhunter,highland is outside of SLC and you Obviously care about Utah.
In recent years your teams have suffered more than their share of humiliation at
the hands of lesser teams...and most of all at the hands of the Utes!
@DuckhunterDespite them being able to beat BYU for the first time in
7 tries, and only the second time in around a dozen tries, they would still be a
sub .500 team if they had just played a halfway decent OOC schedule.---------No one agrees with your opinion. Utes've
come a long way, baby (ESPN):"Yes, the schedule is soft, BYU the
only notable nonconference opponent, but so what? Utah was 6-25 two years
ago.... You can see this vast developmental gulf in more than box scores and
results pages. You can see it in the way Krystkowiak works his team advantages
on the court, in the Utes; smart situational use of timeouts and stoppages. You
can see it in the way junior college transfer Delon Wright eventually [forces]
double-teams and added rotations."Utah only needed 4 minutes to
run the #2 WCC team off the court. Since we are 18-2 a home, if we played
BYU's schedule we would be at worst 17-14 (assuming all wins at home).
Uteology"Coach k was handed a program that was at it's
[sic] lowest point in history."LOL at your failed attempt to
rewrite history.Coach small k was handed a program that HE took to
its lowest point in history.Coach Rose was handed a program that was
AT its lowest point since its lowest point in history, and immediately turned
the program around, leading BYU to one of its highest points in history, with
back-to-back 30+ win seasons, and a national championship contender, until
Davies was suspended, in his 5th and 6th seasons.coach k averaged
8.1 points and 4.9 rebounds in the NBA.coach k debuted as the
Milwaukee Bucks head coach on March 15, 2007 and was fired just over a year
later on April 17, 2008, after "leading" the Bucks to the 6th worst
record in the NBA. He was 31-69 (31%) as a head coach in the NBA.Coach Rose was a team captain for Phi Slamma Jamma, one of the most famous
teams in NCAA history.coach k had a nice college career playing for
Montana in the Big Sky Conference.
Coach Dave Rose- SEVENTH among active coaches in career winning
percentage (75%), behind Mark Few, Roy Williams, Thad Matta, Brad Stevens, Mike
Krzyzewski and John CalipariRemind us where coach k is on that
list.- Reached 200 career wins in his 259th game, making him 15th
fastest in NCAA history to reach 200 victories.At 33-60, coach k
already has more than 59 losses, and isn't anywhere close to 200 wins.
It's very clear that BYU fans are getting more and more nervous with the
momentum on the hill - as they should.
No need to debate. The Utes proved who is better on the court! If they played
again I honestly think it would be a worse beating than last time. Go Utes!
"Why are you giving Rose credit for what Cleveland did?"Isn't Cleveland's 1997–1998 9–21 the exact same record
as Cleveland's 2004–2005 9–21 record?It would
appear that Cleveland left the program exactly where it was after his first
season.Cleveland did a good job rebuilding the program to a 24-9
high, but it was slipping again.Rose took it up a level or three:2005-0620-9 MWC 2nd, NIT2006-0725-9 MWC champ, NCAA 1st rd2007-0827-8 MWC champ, NCAA 1st rd2008-0925-8 MWC 2nd, NCAA2009-1030-6, MWC champ, NCAA 2nd rd2010-1132-5, MWC champ, NCAA Sweet
162011-1226-9, WCC 3rd, NCAA 2nd rd2012-1324-12, WCC 3rd, NIT Final
Four2013-1421-10, WCC 2nd, NCAA?Overall 230-76(75.2%), 6 going
on 7 NCAAs, 2 NITs, 4 conf championships, 9 straight 20+ win seasons
This season has been a GREAT season for my beloved Utes.A .500
record this late in the season. 20 wins within reach, and a likely NIT birth is
well beyond expectation.If they could pull off these last 2 on the
road it would really help their seeding for the Pac-12 tourney. There is a huge
log jam in the middle of the Pac with 7 teams within 2 games of each other.Go Utes!!
@ skywalker "BYU is projected to be in the NCAA tourney"Key
word "projected". By all means, go ahead and celebrate something that
hasn't happened yet. One more BYU choke against the basement of the WCC
conference and that projection will turn in to NCAA rejection. You're team just isn't good enough to warrant all the smack talk.
There's not that much separation between the two schools as evidence by BYU
taking their worst loss of the season at the hands of the Utes. "Yippee, we're #68 and Utah is only #69.
Utah is on the way up. May not make it this year, but they have been
competitive in every game but one.BYU doesn't have much to brag
about, they have lost to the following powerhouse teams this year:Loyola
don't forget about the blowout in the Huntsman Center. Lately rivalry
games always get swept under the rug...
Riley MendenhallBYU also has a winning record 7-6 versus RPI Top
100, unlike Utah, which has a losing record 5-8 versus Top 100 teams.And lets not forget, almost half of Utah's wins came against BOTTOM 100
or non-D1 high school teams.
@SportsFan "BYU also has a winning record 7-6 versus RPI Top 100, unlike
Utah, which has a losing record 5-8.I guess it all depends on how
you want to slice the stats or which rating service you look at. Versus top 50
teams Utah has a .400 winning percentage while BYU is .375. In the BPI Utah is
34, BYU 46. Sagarin also ranks Utah higher than the Y. In reality,
there's not a lot of separation between these two schools when you look at
ALL the numbers. However, when you look at actual head to head results,
it's not that close.
"Yippee, we're #68 and Utah is only #69"Nice try, but
fail.BYU is #35 and Utah is only #82... BIG difference.
This is a great conversation. Just two short years ago cougar fans like the
Duck were gleefully telling us that the Running Utes were destined to be a
cellar dweller in PAC12. Now they are frantically trying to prove they are
still the better team. That is fantastic progress for the Utah basketball
program.I just want to add one more thing to this discussion.SCOREBOARD!
"Just like football! Just like football! Just like football!"
Bubble Boy-I remember those chants at the end of the game too. And
the blue streams headed out the door. Sweet music to my ears.
It is also interesting how BYU fans keep harping on the OOC schedule when they
really haven't thought the concept through. Clearly BYU was one of those
teams and they lost by a comparable margin as the other OOC teams. Maybe the
UTE fans should be making a big deal about BYU's in conference schedule?In the end, the head to head is a factual result that cannot be denied.
"Projected" and "not projected" are fantasy at this point. It
doesn't change the permanent result in the win-loss column and the
"projections" could all change in a weeks time and totally destroy the
Congratulations, Utah, you beat BYU in basketball this season. At home. Where
your team has been really good. Yay for you.Now, let's talk
about Utah's Tournament resume, rather than smack talk. Utah has one OOC
win of any merit. Just one. That was the win over BYU. When the selection
committee looks at resumes, the DO look at the OOC schedule. And Utah's is
pretty weak, which is why they are just BARELY getting any inkling of
recognition for any shot at the Tournament. Even after they upset UCLA, nobody
mentioned them as a possible selection.Second knock on Utah's
resume: a paltry one win away from home. Only winning one game away from the
Huntsman does absolutely nothing for Utah's chances, especially when that
one win was against USC (who has just one win in conference).If Utah
had changed just one of those two things, they would have a strong case for an
at-large selection. However, going 0-2 puts them well outside the bubble.Now, win both road games this week, and then make a deep run in the
Pac-12 Tournament? Do that, and we can reevaluate.
Once again it is so funny how u fans sweep the last 12 games under the rug when
comparing programs over the last 10 years. Just proves that u fans hang their
ENTIRE season on beating BYU and nothing else matters. Coach Rose
has consistently out performed coach k. Numbers do not lie and u fans can twist
the facts all they want to make the program seem similar to their big brother in
Provo. Although I agree with many u fans that the utes are better this year
than last I would also say that there was nowhere else to last year but up. IF
the game this year would have been played in Provo the results would have been
flipped. Utah plays well oat home and just the oipposite at home. Very few
Div. 1 teams have a worse road record that the utes and selection committees
look at that stuff.
And yet utah "fans", BYU is in the NCAA tourney as it stands today and
utah is out. Why is that? utah beat BYU head to head didn't they? utah
plays in the pac12 don't they? utah has a better winning percentage
don't they? utah has the better legacy don't they? Well with all of
that going for them why is utah not even a distant ncaa consideration while BYU
is in according to almost every bracketologist?How could this be? It
just doesn't make sense does it? I just don't understand how BYU,
which according to utah "fans" is inferior to utah in every way, is
considered an NCAA tournament team while utah isn't even the slightest bit
of a consideration. Please explain this to me utah "fans", I really want
to know and you guys obviously have it all figured out.
The fact is that for right now neither team is in and both teams have to make a
strong showing in their respective tournaments to be considered. Today,
scoreboard is the only thing that separates the 2 teams.Down under,
We Ute fans base our season on each and every win. byu, in recent years is
a constant in that column. What I see is you and your friends consumed for the
entire year rationalizing one loss.
NevadCoug- I don't disagree with your statement at all. Down
under- Who is talking about the last 10 years? Nobody is claiming that Utah
has had the better team for the last 10 years. EVERYBODY knows the last 10
years have been rough for the Utes. But we're talking about the here and
now. We're talking about the improvement from a complete dumpster fire two
years ago to a team that is well on its way back to getting into the NCAA
tournament. Its easy to say "IF the game this year would have
been played in Provo the results would have been flipped." But you're
wholly discounting last years game that the Utes nearly won in Provo.
At this point, until the season is over, neither team is going to the
tournament. You can't spout off about any of it until it happens. It just
makes you look bad later.
WACPADDINGOURSCHEDULE,In answer to your question. The U, the MUSS, many
people north of point of the mountain that is why even as you keep saying you
have left BYU in your rear view mirror you still compare the two schools to each
other!!! I am at least honest enough to say that I read and comment on articles
in the DN and follow UTE sports because I still see you as a rival!!! Coach K
has done a great job with the men's team this year! They went beyond
expectations of those outside of the program!!! BYU had a pretty good year also
and is hoping to get an invite to the Big Dance!!! Congrats to both schools,
teams and fan bases!!!Go Cougs!!! Rise Up!!!
why to they need help? thought they were in the toughest juggernaut conference
in all of NCAA hoops? Every single Pac team should get into the tourney right?
Just a reminder:Coach K coaches at Duke
@jarka-rus:He also coaches at The University of Utah because, any coach
whose name starts with a "K" can be Coach K.
@ekute"We Ute fans base our season on each and every win. byu,
in recent years is a constant in that column."Uh.....utah just
won for the first time in half a decade and only the second time in a decade.
They are 2 and 11 over the last several years. You'r little statement there
couldn't be more false if you actually tried to make it more false. lol
Re: Magna Ute FanThanks. I just wanted to throw out a post that
actually gave valid points for why Utah isn't getting more consideration
for a Tournament bid. I'm so tired of the "we're better than
you" garbage into which every comment thread seems to devolve.I'll be honest. I hate the Utes. It wouldn't bug me if they lost
every game. However, I can see that they've done quite a bit during the
Pac-12 part of the schedule to show they are a solid, Tournament quality team.
They can hang with anybody. Problem was that pre-season schedule which
didn't prepare them for the road. They should have scheduled some games
outside of the Huntsman, even if they were cupcakes, to get them used to playing
in a hostile environment. Might have helped in crunch time at the end of some
of those close road losses.
@NevadaCoug: You do know that when you start a conversation with "I'll
be honest. I hate the Utes. It wouldn't bug me if they lost every
game," most people quit reading your comments with any real belief? While
the early schedule did nothing for our road game, I feel it helped a young
struggling team. I'm not sure that the NCAA tournament was really in
discussion when they were scheduled. We were doing fairly poorly. I'm proud
of how far they have come. Let's see how they do in the PAC 12 tournament
before moving to anything else.
ekute,Sorry to tell you but BYU has moved on after the utah loss and Re
proud of the accomplishments and the decent season. We are particularly proud
of the courage of the school administration to out and schedule one of the
toughest OCC schedules in all of college basketball unlike the admin on the
hill.BYU will be just fine but if you want to talk about wins by all means
let's look at the past 13 games and see how u fared.
All of you BYU fans toting the last 12 years of Basketball dominance, I'll
give it to you. You guys have one the last 12 games and have had a pretty darn
good team. Unfortunately for you guys you only lead the series by four games,
you guys were down eight games. So before you guys start tooting that horn lets
keep it all in perspective. Utah in both major sports is honestly the better