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UteLinks: A look at Utah's RPI breakdown

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  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 3, 2014 12:25 p.m.

    It's easy to see why BYU is projected to be in the tournament, while Utah isn't even being considered for an at-large bid.

    #35 BYU(21-10), SOS OOC #8, SOS Conf #128, SOS Overall #33
    #82 Utah(19-9), SOS OOC #338, SOS Conf #33, SOS Overall #97

    BYU is 7-6 vs RPI Top 100
    Utah is 5-8 vs RPI Top 100

    BYU has simply won more games against a much tougher SOS.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    March 3, 2014 12:36 p.m.

    As many were saying when this season's schedule was first announced, the Utes killed their NCAA tourney chances before the season started with their pathetically weak pre-conference schedule.

  • Idaho Ute Rigby, ID
    March 3, 2014 12:59 p.m.

    It's interesting how all of these BYU fans have to take these peripheral moral victories to make themselves feel better, when their teams can't actually take a victory in head to head competition.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 3, 2014 1:50 p.m.

    It's obvious that BYU fans are hurting that Utah isn't going dancing this year. How else do you explain the obsession about our OOC schedule.

    As far as this Ute is concerned this was a great year. The goal was to resurrect the basketball program, mission accomplished. We showed we can compete in the PAC-12 and are about a year away from competing for the PAC-12 title.

    @Uteanymous

    Sagarin isn't impressed with BYU finishing #2 in the WCC:

    #43 Utah
    #44 BYU

    BYU is a bubble team after going to the NIT last year. Great accomplishment.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    March 3, 2014 2:33 p.m.

    Uteology
    East Salt Lake City, Utah

    "Sagarin isn't impressed with BYU finishing #2 in the WCC:

    #43 Utah
    #44 BYU"

    I don't know, Uteology, did you get permission from byu fans to use this ranking. That won't make them happy. LOL!!

    Totally agree, this was a great year as the Utes proved they can compete in the Pac-12 and that they are on an upward trajectory. Given where the program was just 2 years ago (and several years before that) the turnaround is remarkable. Coach K is getting it done and doing it quickly. Frankly, I think it bothers our friends at byu. Rose was handed a healthy program and has done nothing with it. Coach K has turned the Utes around and the are headed into the spotlight. One more year!

    Go Utes!!

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    March 3, 2014 3:30 p.m.

    Sagarin's ranking obviously doesn't mean much if BYU is in line to be one of the 68 teams invited to the Big Dance, while Utah will once again be left on the outside looking in at the NCAA tourney.

    As usual, the Utes are already talking about next season, before March Madness has even begun.

    Rose was handed a 9-21 team, that he immediately elevated to a 20-9, NIT team.
    coach k was handed a 13-18 team, that he immediately tore apart to produce a 6-25 team.

  • Mike Johnson Stafford, VA
    March 3, 2014 4:27 p.m.

    Utah is 1-3 against the top 25, including taking a No. 1 team to overtime.

    That said, the RPI doesn't mathematically model anything, has a pretty poor correlation with more rigorous systems, and is a poor predictor of performance.

  • But seriously folks! Salt Lake City, UT
    March 3, 2014 4:40 p.m.

    Scenic View speaks volumes. OUCH!!
    Talk about coaches;
    Can anyone guess which coach has 9 consecutive 20 win seasons?
    Can anyone name the coach that made it to the final four of the NIT last year?
    Can anyone name the coach that has made it to the NCAA tourney multiple times while head coach?

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    March 3, 2014 5:22 p.m.

    "the RPI doesn't mathematically model anything, has a pretty poor correlation with more rigorous systems, and is a poor predictor of performance..."

    Which of course explains why #35 RPI BYU is projected by most prognosticators to be IN the Big Dance, while #82 RPI Utah is hardly mentioned.

    Of the 68 brackets in the latest Bracket Matrix, BYU is included in 56, including ESPN and Yahoo; Utah is only included in one bracket.

  • UU Provo, UT
    March 3, 2014 5:22 p.m.

    Welcome to another Utah story BYU fans. Your gloating is peculiar given that both the BPI and Sagarin have Utah ranked higher than the Y, not to mention the Utes handed the Cougars their worst loss of the season.

    Per Sagarin Utah is 3-5 vs. top 100 while BYU is 3-6. Your team's performance doesn't warrant smack talk given their propensity to lose to the basement of the WCC (see Loyola, Pepperdine, Pacific & Portland). Seriously, who gets blown out by Loyola Mary?

    If BYU delivers another one of those spectacular performances in the first round of the WCC tourney, they will be out of the NCAA for sure.

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 3, 2014 5:51 p.m.

    Idaho Ute

    It's interesting how all of these Utah fans have to justify their conference bottom dwelling status by pretending that one game makes as season.

    -----------------

    Mike Johnson

    Utah is 0-2 versus ranked teams - UCLA isn't ranked in either poll.

    Against RPI Top 25
    BYU 2-4 (33%)
    Utah 1-3 (25%)

    Against RPI Top 100
    BYU 7-6 (54%)
    Utah 5-8 (38%)

    Worst losses
    BYU at #198 LMU
    Utah at #200 WSU

    TWO of BYU's 21 wins came against Bottom 100 (250+) or non-D1 teams
    EIGHT of Utah's 19 wins came against Bottom 100 (250+) or non-D1 teams

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    March 3, 2014 6:04 p.m.

    UU

    When you can't dispute the most germane fact - that BYU is projected to be in the NCAA tourney and Utah isn't - whine about the source or pretend that something else is more important.

  • No playoff for U Salt Lake City, UT
    March 3, 2014 6:42 p.m.

    midpacmajor

    Nice job blowing up UU's cherry-picked stats and rankings.

    Unlike football, Sagarin's basketball rankings have never had much sway with the post-season selection committee.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    March 3, 2014 6:43 p.m.

    But seriously folks!
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Scenic View speaks volumes. OUCH!!
    Talk about coaches;
    Can anyone guess which coach has 9 consecutive 20 win seasons?
    Can anyone name the coach that made it to the final four of the NIT last year?
    Can anyone name the coach that has made it to the NCAA tourney multiple times while head coach?

    ______

    Yeah, talk about the coaches.
    Outside of Provo and wishful thinking Cougar fans everywhere else, who cares about your list?

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    March 3, 2014 6:50 p.m.

    It's laughable how Utah fans are so averse to the logical response to the article "A look at Utah's RPI breakdown;" that is, comparing the breakdown of Utah's RPI with the breakdown of BYU's RPI.

    Of course, when the comparison shows #35 BYU is MUCH, MUCH better than #82 Utah, it's easy to see why Utah fans refuse to go there.

  • Elkhorn Loveland, CO
    March 3, 2014 6:55 p.m.

    WACpaddled

    Actually, Coach Rose is very well respected nationally and has one of the best records of any coach over the last nine years.

    Unfortunately, the same can't be said of any of Utah's coaches since Majerus left.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 3, 2014 7:13 p.m.

    @wacpaddled

    And outside of slc who cares about utah at all? The answer is ovious, absolutely no one, based on the fact they haven't been n the ncaa tourney in almost a decade and are getting absolutely no support to be included in it again this year.

    Now I will admit utah is an improved team this year,but a god portion of that has to be attributed to their woeful pre season schedule. It was just about the most horrendous in the entire country and accounts for more than half of their wins. Despite them being able to beat BYU for the first time in 7 tries, and only the second time in around a dozen tries, they would still be a sub .500 team if they had just played a halfway decent OOC schedule.

    Yes it is nice to see some improvement, their last several years have been a humiliation to the entire state, but they are not NCAA material a shown in the fact exactly no one considers them to be ncaa material.

  • UtesBy5 Syracuse, UT
    March 3, 2014 8:10 p.m.

    @ Elkhorn:

    Elkhorn

    Loveland, CO

    "Actually, Coach Rose is very well respected nationally and has one of the best records of any coach over the last nine years.

    Unfortunately, the same can't be said of any of Utah's coaches since Majerus left."

    Have you conducted a national poll to validate your statement? Didn't think so.

    For your information, Coach Krystkowiak played and coached in the NBA. I'm betting he has plenty of respect nationally. Furthermore, he coaches in a major conference which is several notches above the WCC.

    Go Utes!

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    March 3, 2014 8:22 p.m.

    Uteology

    "BYU is a bubble team after going to the NIT last year. Great accomplishment."

    Yes, we know...

    BYU making it to the NIT final four last season and only being a bubble team this season is a great accomplishment (sarcasm noted).

    Of course, if you were talking about Utah, you would be categorizing the same accomplishment as an utterably, unbelievably, amazing accomplishment.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 3, 2014 8:42 p.m.

    @scenic view

    Rose was handed a 9-21 team, that he immediately elevated to a 20-9, NIT team.
    coach k was handed a 13-18 team, that he immediately tore apart to produce a 6-25 team.

    -------------

    Rose was handed a program that Steve Cleveland turned around after going 15-13 and 1-25. How do you not know your own history? Why are you giving Rose credit for what Cleveland did?

    1995–1996 Reid 15–13
    1996–1997 Reid/Ingle 1–25
    1997–1998 Cleveland 9–21
    1998–1999 Cleveland 12–16
    1999–2000 Cleveland 22–11
    2000–2001 Cleveland 24–9
    2001–2002 Cleveland 18–12
    2002–2003 Cleveland 23–9
    2003–2004 Cleveland 21–9
    2004–2005 Cleveland 9–21
    2005–2006 Rose 20–9

    Coach K was handed a program that was at it's lowest point in history.

    Even with a weak OOC Utah is headed to the NIT, same place BYU was last year.

    BYU, WCC #2, is a bubble team.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    March 3, 2014 9:04 p.m.

    Duckhunter,
    highland is outside of SLC and you Obviously care about Utah. In recent years your teams have suffered more than their share of humiliation at the hands of lesser teams...and most of all at the hands of the Utes!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 3, 2014 9:13 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    Despite them being able to beat BYU for the first time in 7 tries, and only the second time in around a dozen tries, they would still be a sub .500 team if they had just played a halfway decent OOC schedule.

    ---------

    No one agrees with your opinion.

    Utes've come a long way, baby (ESPN):

    "Yes, the schedule is soft, BYU the only notable nonconference opponent, but so what? Utah was 6-25 two years ago.... You can see this vast developmental gulf in more than box scores and results pages. You can see it in the way Krystkowiak works his team advantages on the court, in the Utes; smart situational use of timeouts and stoppages. You can see it in the way junior college transfer Delon Wright eventually [forces] double-teams and added rotations."

    Utah only needed 4 minutes to run the #2 WCC team off the court. Since we are 18-2 a home, if we played BYU's schedule we would be at worst 17-14 (assuming all wins at home).

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    March 3, 2014 9:18 p.m.

    Uteology

    "Coach k was handed a program that was at it's [sic] lowest point in history."

    LOL at your failed attempt to rewrite history.

    Coach small k was handed a program that HE took to its lowest point in history.

    Coach Rose was handed a program that was AT its lowest point since its lowest point in history, and immediately turned the program around, leading BYU to one of its highest points in history, with back-to-back 30+ win seasons, and a national championship contender, until Davies was suspended, in his 5th and 6th seasons.

    coach k averaged 8.1 points and 4.9 rebounds in the NBA.

    coach k debuted as the Milwaukee Bucks head coach on March 15, 2007 and was fired just over a year later on April 17, 2008, after "leading" the Bucks to the 6th worst record in the NBA. He was 31-69 (31%) as a head coach in the NBA.

    Coach Rose was a team captain for Phi Slamma Jamma, one of the most famous teams in NCAA history.

    coach k had a nice college career playing for Montana in the Big Sky Conference.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    March 3, 2014 9:27 p.m.

    Coach Dave Rose

    - SEVENTH among active coaches in career winning percentage (75%), behind Mark Few, Roy Williams, Thad Matta, Brad Stevens, Mike Krzyzewski and John Calipari

    Remind us where coach k is on that list.

    - Reached 200 career wins in his 259th game, making him 15th fastest in NCAA history to reach 200 victories.

    At 33-60, coach k already has more than 59 losses, and isn't anywhere close to 200 wins.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 3, 2014 9:43 p.m.

    It's very clear that BYU fans are getting more and more nervous with the momentum on the hill - as they should.

  • utah by5 York, PA
    March 3, 2014 9:53 p.m.

    No need to debate. The Utes proved who is better on the court! If they played again I honestly think it would be a worse beating than last time.

    Go Utes!

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    March 3, 2014 9:53 p.m.

    "Why are you giving Rose credit for what Cleveland did?"

    Isn't Cleveland's 1997–1998 9–21 the exact same record as Cleveland's 2004–2005 9–21 record?

    It would appear that Cleveland left the program exactly where it was after his first season.

    Cleveland did a good job rebuilding the program to a 24-9 high, but it was slipping again.

    Rose took it up a level or three:

    2005-0620-9 MWC 2nd, NIT
    2006-0725-9 MWC champ, NCAA 1st rd
    2007-0827-8 MWC champ, NCAA 1st rd
    2008-0925-8 MWC 2nd, NCAA
    2009-1030-6, MWC champ, NCAA 2nd rd
    2010-1132-5, MWC champ, NCAA Sweet 16
    2011-1226-9, WCC 3rd, NCAA 2nd rd
    2012-1324-12, WCC 3rd, NIT Final Four
    2013-1421-10, WCC 2nd, NCAA?

    Overall 230-76(75.2%), 6 going on 7 NCAAs, 2 NITs, 4 conf championships, 9 straight 20+ win seasons

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    March 3, 2014 10:03 p.m.

    This season has been a GREAT season for my beloved Utes.

    A .500 record this late in the season. 20 wins within reach, and a likely NIT birth is well beyond expectation.

    If they could pull off these last 2 on the road it would really help their seeding for the Pac-12 tourney. There is a huge log jam in the middle of the Pac with 7 teams within 2 games of each other.

    Go Utes!!

  • UU Provo, UT
    March 3, 2014 10:03 p.m.

    @ skywalker "BYU is projected to be in the NCAA tourney"

    Key word "projected". By all means, go ahead and celebrate something that hasn't happened yet. One more BYU choke against the basement of the WCC conference and that projection will turn in to NCAA rejection.

    You're team just isn't good enough to warrant all the smack talk. There's not that much separation between the two schools as evidence by BYU taking their worst loss of the season at the hands of the Utes.

    "Yippee, we're #68 and Utah is only #69.

  • Riley Mendenhall Provo, UT
    March 3, 2014 10:09 p.m.

    Utah is on the way up. May not make it this year, but they have been competitive in every game but one.

    BYU doesn't have much to brag about, they have lost to the following powerhouse teams this year:
    Loyola Marymount
    Pepperdine
    Portland
    Pacific

    Oh yeah don't forget about the blowout in the Huntsman Center. Lately rivalry games always get swept under the rug...

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    March 3, 2014 10:42 p.m.

    Riley Mendenhall

    BYU also has a winning record 7-6 versus RPI Top 100, unlike Utah, which has a losing record 5-8 versus Top 100 teams.

    And lets not forget, almost half of Utah's wins came against BOTTOM 100 or non-D1 high school teams.

  • UU Provo, UT
    March 3, 2014 11:10 p.m.

    @SportsFan "BYU also has a winning record 7-6 versus RPI Top 100, unlike Utah, which has a losing record 5-8.

    I guess it all depends on how you want to slice the stats or which rating service you look at. Versus top 50 teams Utah has a .400 winning percentage while BYU is .375. In the BPI Utah is 34, BYU 46. Sagarin also ranks Utah higher than the Y.

    In reality, there's not a lot of separation between these two schools when you look at ALL the numbers. However, when you look at actual head to head results, it's not that close.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    March 3, 2014 11:29 p.m.

    "Yippee, we're #68 and Utah is only #69"

    Nice try, but fail.

    BYU is #35 and Utah is only #82... BIG difference.

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    March 4, 2014 7:19 a.m.

    This is a great conversation. Just two short years ago cougar fans like the Duck were gleefully telling us that the Running Utes were destined to be a cellar dweller in PAC12. Now they are frantically trying to prove they are still the better team. That is fantastic progress for the Utah basketball program.

    I just want to add one more thing to this discussion.

    SCOREBOARD!

  • Bubble Boy Salt Lake City, UT
    March 4, 2014 7:53 a.m.

    "Just like football! Just like football! Just like football!"

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    March 4, 2014 8:17 a.m.

    Bubble Boy-

    I remember those chants at the end of the game too. And the blue streams headed out the door.

    Sweet music to my ears.

  • Idaho Ute Rigby, ID
    March 4, 2014 8:19 a.m.

    It is also interesting how BYU fans keep harping on the OOC schedule when they really haven't thought the concept through. Clearly BYU was one of those teams and they lost by a comparable margin as the other OOC teams. Maybe the UTE fans should be making a big deal about BYU's in conference schedule?

    In the end, the head to head is a factual result that cannot be denied. "Projected" and "not projected" are fantasy at this point. It doesn't change the permanent result in the win-loss column and the "projections" could all change in a weeks time and totally destroy the current fantasy.

  • NevadaCoug Overton, NV
    March 4, 2014 9:08 a.m.

    Congratulations, Utah, you beat BYU in basketball this season. At home. Where your team has been really good. Yay for you.

    Now, let's talk about Utah's Tournament resume, rather than smack talk. Utah has one OOC win of any merit. Just one. That was the win over BYU. When the selection committee looks at resumes, the DO look at the OOC schedule. And Utah's is pretty weak, which is why they are just BARELY getting any inkling of recognition for any shot at the Tournament. Even after they upset UCLA, nobody mentioned them as a possible selection.

    Second knock on Utah's resume: a paltry one win away from home. Only winning one game away from the Huntsman does absolutely nothing for Utah's chances, especially when that one win was against USC (who has just one win in conference).

    If Utah had changed just one of those two things, they would have a strong case for an at-large selection. However, going 0-2 puts them well outside the bubble.

    Now, win both road games this week, and then make a deep run in the Pac-12 Tournament? Do that, and we can reevaluate.

  • Down under Salt Lake City, UT
    March 4, 2014 9:20 a.m.

    Once again it is so funny how u fans sweep the last 12 games under the rug when comparing programs over the last 10 years. Just proves that u fans hang their ENTIRE season on beating BYU and nothing else matters.

    Coach Rose has consistently out performed coach k. Numbers do not lie and u fans can twist the facts all they want to make the program seem similar to their big brother in Provo. Although I agree with many u fans that the utes are better this year than last I would also say that there was nowhere else to last year but up. IF the game this year would have been played in Provo the results would have been flipped. Utah plays well oat home and just the oipposite at home. Very few Div. 1 teams have a worse road record that the utes and selection committees look at that stuff.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 4, 2014 9:36 a.m.

    And yet utah "fans", BYU is in the NCAA tourney as it stands today and utah is out. Why is that? utah beat BYU head to head didn't they? utah plays in the pac12 don't they? utah has a better winning percentage don't they? utah has the better legacy don't they? Well with all of that going for them why is utah not even a distant ncaa consideration while BYU is in according to almost every bracketologist?

    How could this be? It just doesn't make sense does it? I just don't understand how BYU, which according to utah "fans" is inferior to utah in every way, is considered an NCAA tournament team while utah isn't even the slightest bit of a consideration. Please explain this to me utah "fans", I really want to know and you guys obviously have it all figured out.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    March 4, 2014 9:53 a.m.

    The fact is that for right now neither team is in and both teams have to make a strong showing in their respective tournaments to be considered. Today, scoreboard is the only thing that separates the 2 teams.

    Down under,
    We Ute fans base our season on each and every win. byu, in recent years is a constant in that column. What I see is you and your friends consumed for the entire year rationalizing one loss.

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    March 4, 2014 10:04 a.m.

    NevadCoug- I don't disagree with your statement at all.

    Down under- Who is talking about the last 10 years? Nobody is claiming that Utah has had the better team for the last 10 years. EVERYBODY knows the last 10 years have been rough for the Utes. But we're talking about the here and now. We're talking about the improvement from a complete dumpster fire two years ago to a team that is well on its way back to getting into the NCAA tournament.

    Its easy to say "IF the game this year would have been played in Provo the results would have been flipped." But you're wholly discounting last years game that the Utes nearly won in Provo.

  • Utefan4Lyf West Jordan, UT
    March 4, 2014 11:05 a.m.

    At this point, until the season is over, neither team is going to the tournament. You can't spout off about any of it until it happens. It just makes you look bad later.

  • Reno Cougs Fan 68 Reno, NV
    March 4, 2014 11:52 a.m.

    WACPADDINGOURSCHEDULE,
    In answer to your question. The U, the MUSS, many people north of point of the mountain that is why even as you keep saying you have left BYU in your rear view mirror you still compare the two schools to each other!!! I am at least honest enough to say that I read and comment on articles in the DN and follow UTE sports because I still see you as a rival!!! Coach K has done a great job with the men's team this year! They went beyond expectations of those outside of the program!!! BYU had a pretty good year also and is hoping to get an invite to the Big Dance!!! Congrats to both schools, teams and fan bases!!!

    Go Cougs!!! Rise Up!!!

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    March 4, 2014 12:32 p.m.

    why to they need help? thought they were in the toughest juggernaut conference in all of NCAA hoops? Every single Pac team should get into the tourney right?

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    March 4, 2014 12:34 p.m.

    Just a reminder:
    Coach K coaches at Duke

  • Utefan4Lyf West Jordan, UT
    March 4, 2014 1:01 p.m.

    @jarka-rus:
    He also coaches at The University of Utah because, any coach whose name starts with a "K" can be Coach K.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    March 4, 2014 1:16 p.m.

    @ekute

    "We Ute fans base our season on each and every win. byu, in recent years is a constant in that column."

    Uh.....utah just won for the first time in half a decade and only the second time in a decade. They are 2 and 11 over the last several years. You'r little statement there couldn't be more false if you actually tried to make it more false. lol

  • NevadaCoug Overton, NV
    March 4, 2014 2:10 p.m.

    Re: Magna Ute Fan

    Thanks. I just wanted to throw out a post that actually gave valid points for why Utah isn't getting more consideration for a Tournament bid. I'm so tired of the "we're better than you" garbage into which every comment thread seems to devolve.

    I'll be honest. I hate the Utes. It wouldn't bug me if they lost every game. However, I can see that they've done quite a bit during the Pac-12 part of the schedule to show they are a solid, Tournament quality team. They can hang with anybody. Problem was that pre-season schedule which didn't prepare them for the road. They should have scheduled some games outside of the Huntsman, even if they were cupcakes, to get them used to playing in a hostile environment. Might have helped in crunch time at the end of some of those close road losses.

  • Utefan4Lyf West Jordan, UT
    March 4, 2014 2:46 p.m.

    @NevadaCoug: You do know that when you start a conversation with "I'll be honest. I hate the Utes. It wouldn't bug me if they lost every game," most people quit reading your comments with any real belief? While the early schedule did nothing for our road game, I feel it helped a young struggling team. I'm not sure that the NCAA tournament was really in discussion when they were scheduled. We were doing fairly poorly. I'm proud of how far they have come. Let's see how they do in the PAC 12 tournament before moving to anything else.

  • Down under Salt Lake City, UT
    March 4, 2014 2:59 p.m.

    ekute,
    Sorry to tell you but BYU has moved on after the utah loss and Re proud of the accomplishments and the decent season. We are particularly proud of the courage of the school administration to out and schedule one of the toughest OCC schedules in all of college basketball unlike the admin on the hill.
    BYU will be just fine but if you want to talk about wins by all means let's look at the past 13 games and see how u fared.

  • Creeper51 Bountiful, UT
    March 4, 2014 9:15 p.m.

    All of you BYU fans toting the last 12 years of Basketball dominance, I'll give it to you. You guys have one the last 12 games and have had a pretty darn good team. Unfortunately for you guys you only lead the series by four games, you guys were down eight games. So before you guys start tooting that horn lets keep it all in perspective. Utah in both major sports is honestly the better team.