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Same-sex couples claim Utah attorney general wrongly intervening in adoption cases

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  • I know it. I Live it. I Love it. Provo, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 8:41 p.m.

    Two gay men have no power to bring a child into this world and no right to take away a mother's love from the child. A boy likewise needs fatherhood in his life. There is no "hate" in wanting to give children the love they deserve.

    Robbing children of love is something that will never be tolerated.

    Creating a new definition of equality, fair-treatment, rights, and a so-called social class of people who fear morality- these are tactics to tear us apart. But the truth is that a child's rights are real. State-recognition isn't.

    The Family proclamation in 1995 reads: "WE WARN that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets."

    We still have time to change. All of us need to. We can all improve, forgive, be forgiven, and repent. The arm of mercy is extended to everyone... EQUALLY. Turning it down has never brought happiness to anyone.

  • riverofsun St.George, Utah
    Feb. 28, 2014 9:13 p.m.

    I know, etc.......
    Your post only brings more decisiveness, anger, lack of compassion, and so on.
    This is why our country has chosen for it's citizens to have equal rights. This is why there is the legal division of Church and State in America.
    You can think how you choose, belong to what ever religious faith you wish, but just because you like it, does not translate to you being able to dictate to others how to live their lives.
    Is it really that difficult to grasp this concept?

  • benjoginko Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 9:18 p.m.

    How is a gay couple wanting to adopt a unwanted child, robbing that child of love? I just don't get it. Sure I believe that the optimal situation for a child is to be brought up by a loving mother and father, but when that isn't a option then why deny two people who love each other the opportunity to raise a child that needs parents?

  • Zionide SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 9:32 p.m.

    And what's your argument against two women having a daughter?

    I'm sure it's equally invalid.

    "Robbing children of love" is one of the most absurd claims I've ever read here, and that's saying a lot. Your line of reasoning implies that the children of single parents receive half of much love as those who have two parents.

    Your reference of a church proclamation has no bearing on this discussion of civil law, as the proclamation does not apply to citizens are not members of that church.

    Keep your religious reasons in your religion, and let the rest of us live our lives and raise our children as we see fit, without your asinine interference.

  • LovelyDeseret Gilbert, AZ
    Feb. 28, 2014 9:34 p.m.

    Polygamist families went through these same sort of legal road blocks many times in this nation's history and yet very little was given in support. This happens to gay non-biological families and it makes the front page news throughout the country. I understand the gay community wants to only protect themselves and the straight community wants to do the same, but the hypocrisy from the gay community as they turned a blind eye to the polygamist communities is karma.

  • Enough is enough! Saint George, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 10:06 p.m.

    Someone needs to intervene.....please!!

  • Rocket Science Brigham City, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 10:07 p.m.

    The only thing 'clear and certain' in this case is that plaintiffs’ marriage licenses were issued, contrary to Utah law, but pursuant to a federal judicial injunction, which has been stayed and is on appeal.

    It's particularly egregious that one Judge went out of his way to disregard the laws of the State. The State has therefore not gone out of it's way into highly private, highly personal cases but rather is duty bound to support, enforce and defend the laws.

  • intervention slc, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 10:25 p.m.

    @i know it

    "Robbing children of love is something that will never be tolerated." Yet that is exactly what you are attempting to do, deny this boy the protections of having two loving parents in his life.
    Do you think the bio father is going to magically appear and the bio mother will go straight just to fullful some fantasy leave it to beaver family?

    The. Courts are not bound by your churches proclamations or your personal views of the ideal family, until the state can actually prove that children are harmed by same sex adoption they will continue to lose.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 10:46 p.m.

    Mother nature didn't want two people of the same gender to be parents together. Ever. And I'm with mother nature

  • I know it. I Live it. I Love it. Provo, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 11:32 p.m.

    riverofsun,

    My dad taught me to be compassionate and loving. While I'm as capable as anyone to forget or neglect the truth... I generally consider how my comments will be read. In this case, I did before posting.

    To stand up for a moral truth is not unloving just because you don't want to accept it.
    To stand up for protecting children from an institution proven to be harmful is an act of love.
    To invite others to stop, repent, and return... without hard feelings or retribution... is SURELY an act of love. Unlike us, God's love is infinite.

    To deny a child the love of both their Father and Mother, not because of extraordinary circumstance, but to satisfy the choice to live by principles every human being knows to be wrong... that is surely unloving, without compassion, past feeling, and unjust.

    Everyone has the chance to stop hating, stop hurting themselves and others, and change. The invitation is to live truly happy by returning to what is truly a good and beautiful thing. I know for myself about it because I looked for the truth and found it. That isn't religious ignorance.

  • Bob K portland, OR
    March 1, 2014 4:24 a.m.

    LovelyDeseret
    Gilbert, AZ
    "...the hypocrisy from the gay community as they turned a blind eye to the polygamist communities is karma."

    This illustrates now nonsensical the discussion can become.
    The polygamists do not support equality for Gays, but when the Gays do not support polygamist rights, they are bad?

    There are only 2 reasons for the opposition to marriage equality and adoption, neither of which is legal, nor Constitutional:

    1-- Some folks just do not see that "those people" are equal, and will do anything to keep them from sitting in the adjacent seat at the lunch counter, or the same section of the bus.

    2-- Some churches have no way to integrate their Gay members and their members' Gay offspring, so they finance anti-rights campaigns, preach against it, etc.

    The lds, believing in revelation, actually have an easier time to change than most other religions, if the prophet will only listen clearly to God, and be told that equality is His will.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    March 1, 2014 6:26 a.m.

    @ I know it. I live it. I love it.

    Until everyone's god agrees, the best we can do is base our laws here on Earth on what the evidence shows. It shows that we have no more to fear from LGBTs parenting children than we do from heteros parenting children.

    @ Chris B

    "Mother Nature" isn't a person and doesn't have an end goal in mind. You're seeing intention where there is none. You're also missing the fact that homosexuality consistently occurs in humans and other species, making it natural rather than unnatural. And you're missing the fact that the ability to procreate has no bearing on whether a person will make a good parent.

    To the adults and children whose lives continue to be negatively impacted by our discriminatory laws against LGBTs, I'm sorry. Some still "know not what they do," but we're working on it and the light on the horizon is getting brighter and brighter. Justice is coming.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    March 1, 2014 9:54 a.m.

    @LovelyDeseret
    Polygamist as mentioned have never supported SSM, and you must be forgetting what a wonderful example Warren Jeffs was for the virtues of polygamy.

  • Thinkin\' Man Rexburg, ID
    March 1, 2014 9:55 a.m.

    Haven't homosexual couples opted out of the child-bearing game? Natural law says they cannot have children; therefore, adoption goes against nature. You don't have to appeal to any religious or moral teachings to come to this conclusion.

  • I know it. I Live it. I Love it. Provo, UT
    March 1, 2014 10:12 a.m.

    I'm a dictator? Really? Last time I checked, my legal power to express and vote my opinions was just as valid as everyone else's.

    ///

    Children deserve a loving Father and Mother.

    Using straw-man arguments actually make your arguments weaker, not mine. I clearly qualified the love children deserve. Mothers can't be replaced. Fathers can't be replaced.

    This is about taking something away from children in order to satisfy what adults want. There is nothing loving about it. It's purely selfish.

    ///

    Ryan T. Anderson articulated it perfectly before the Indiana House Judiciary Committee. If you can handle 10 minutes of respect, reason, fairness, and actually putting children first for a change... then watch it. Google is your friend.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    March 1, 2014 10:43 a.m.

    @ I know it. I live it. I love it.

    "To deny a child the love of both their Father and Mother, not because of extraordinary circumstance, but to satisfy the choice to live by principles every human being knows to be wrong...

    Your religion and others have held other beliefs as "truths" that were later revised or recanted. The most generous way to look at this is that the religious often misinterpret what their god is telling them. They're human - they make mistakes. So I don't think the confidence with which you state your position is warranted.

    Having said this, I do believe you are sincere when you say your intent is to be loving. Unfortunately, good intentions do not lessen the harmful effects of the actions you take or don't take as a result of your belief.

    I do hear your fear, but you will see that all will be okay. Little will change except that a small minority of people - my beloved nephew included - will no longer be treated as second class citizens. He isn't. He's first class all the way. His god thinks so too.

  • LiberalJimmy Salt Lake City, UT
    March 1, 2014 2:56 p.m.

    Despite the many here that continue to post hate and use hate as a tool to get their points across (regardless if they have one or do not) justice is soon arriving in Utah and nationwide! The same logic and weapons were used during the civil rights movement. We all know how that turned out.

  • intervention slc, UT
    March 1, 2014 7:45 p.m.

    @chris b

    Are you also with Mother Nature when it comes to couples coming together just long enough to procreate then go thier seperate ways. How about mother natures drive some animals to leave their unborn alone and never returning?

  • Jimmytheliberal Salt Lake City, UT
    March 1, 2014 10:57 p.m.

    Once again Utah is a national embarrassment and becomes the punch line of jokes on late night television. We should all be so proud.

  • Danclrksvll Erin, TN
    March 2, 2014 9:43 a.m.

    We raised cows when I was young and you need a bull and a heifer to propagate the species.Two bulls cannot reproduce and could not raise a calf if they had one which is impossible.

  • trekker Salt Lake, UT
    March 2, 2014 5:30 p.m.

    Bob K you said "The lds, believing in revelation, actually have an easier time to change than most other religions, if the prophet will only listen clearly to God, and be told that equality is His will." How do you know this is God's will? According to LDS doctrine only the Prophet has the authority to speak for God here on the Earth. So far to the church only male and female relationships have been permitted, not the same gender. I have homosexual friends and family who are wonderful people and I love them dearly, but religiously I don't know how their orientation fits or could fit into basic LDS doctrine of "The Plan of Happiness" of having a family being sealed together for eternity and one day having spirit children together and becoming as God. Our bodies are designed strictly to reproduce with opposite genders not the same. Believing in God, I believe this was done on purpose, Otherwise why did God not just make only one gender that could reproduce? Then everyone would be truly equal in all aspects of life. There would be no father or mother role it would just be blurred together.

  • Bob K portland, OR
    March 3, 2014 2:43 a.m.

    trekker
    Salt Lake, UT
    "Bob K you said "The lds, believing in revelation, actually have an easier time to change than most other religions, if the prophet will only listen clearly to God, and be told that equality is His will." How do you know this is God's will?"

    --- I believe that God would not create people who are 2nd class
    --- I believe that relgions, in order to be fair to their own Gay children and not deny that God made them, must look with fresh eyes on the issue.

    Perhaps I am dwelling in Outer Space when I say that men who were already adults in 1950 or so ought to do better at understanding 2014, or pass the job to younger men.

    And You might realize that the original formulation of ANY church is centered not just aroung serving God, but on growing the church. 180 years ago, it was necessary to make it all about procreation to do so.
    In today's world, with Utah having a much higher divorce rate that Gay- marriage Massachusetts, people are no longer willing to lie to stay in a church, and we realize that not everyone can have an honest heterosexual marriage.

  • my two cents777 ,
    March 3, 2014 8:52 a.m.

    I am LDS and I have seen more children from unhappy typically Mom/Dad homes than you can even believe; so the theory that children all need a mom and dad is kaput with many, many unhappy families. Children are best off with happy, stable and loving parents- regardless of their sexual orientation. All those who feel inclined to judge those who don't live exactly the same way as themselves are in for a huge surprise when they stand before the Lord. He will not be pleased with the pettiness, hatred and mean spirited venom these people spit out. He makes no mistakes; if homosexuals are created then HE created them. Do you want to call him out for it? Exactly as I thought. NO. I've worked for Child Protection and believe me- there are plenty of LDS mom/dad homes that are so dysfunctional the children are being destroyed from within. So, don't pretend that they don't exist because any honest Bishop or Stake President will tell you they are inundated with "happy families". Let others be. Judge Not. It's not your call.

  • TheTrueVoice West Richland, WA
    March 3, 2014 12:01 p.m.

    It is disheartening to see the unbelievable amount of anti-gay animus in these posts page one in particular. I fear those poor souls that are yoked to dogma will never reach an enlightened state - at least not until they are taught otherwise.

    The LDS church has successfully dealt with this type of social upheaval in the past, when it became socially impossible to continue denying equal treatment toward African-Americans. In 1978, church leaders led by Spencer Kimball declared they had received a 'revelation' instructing them to reverse the racial restriction policy.

    The same thing will eventually occur with this marriage equality issue - LDS leaders will have another 'revelation' that will allow them tell their flock that marriage equality, like black Mormons in the priesthood, is now okey-dokey. This will eliminate the angst many LDS folk currently feel on this issue.

  • mcclark Salt Lake City, UT
    March 3, 2014 4:56 p.m.

    Danclrksvll----So what is your point?

  • hepcbal salt lake city, UT
    March 5, 2014 5:06 p.m.

    Does Utah law prohibit adoption by same sex couples or does it prohibit single people from adopting? I thought it was single people. (I'm not giving an opinion I'm just genuinely curious)