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Letter: The people or the party

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  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Feb. 28, 2014 3:26 a.m.

    It is a total affront to me to see so many misrepresentations in a letter to the editor. Which surveys say "a majority" of citizens want to give up a Democratic Republlic form of government? I'm not familiar with any survey that has asked that question. That is the only pertinent question that applies when Count My Vote is trying to change our Democratic Republic into a direct Democrary. America is not a direct Democracy. It is a Democratic Republic.

    Further, I don't think that any court inside or outside of Utah would allow Democrats and Independant voters to decide which candidate represents the Republican Party in the General Election. Each Party is allowed to choose its own candidates without input from the other political parties.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 5:32 a.m.

    I agree with Harry Puckett. The people, not the party, should choose how the candidates for the general election are chosen. People matter a LOT more than party. Especially in a de facto one-party sate like Utah, the people should be able to vote to select the candidates as soon as possible, and all of the people should be able to choose in the final candidate for any party. That is why I support Count My Vote, and urge everyone to support it. Let the people choose, not the party.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 7:00 a.m.

    Well said. That is exactly what our legislators who are trying to hold on to their power need to hear!

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 7:12 a.m.

    "I encourage all Utah voters to let the Legislature know who the people believe should control the political process in Utah by signing the Count My Vote Utah initiative petition."

    And by voting out all the supporters of SB54.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 7:32 a.m.

    The LDS General Authorities have encouraged all of us to participate in the Elections.

    How can we do that when MOST of us are NON-card carrying Lemmings -- i.e., Independent & Un-affiliated voters?

    We can't.
    The system is broken.

    Those of us who disenfranchised vote for PERSON, and Never EVER for the Party.

    Something needs to change.

  • Mark l SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 8:10 a.m.

    All you unaffiliated people need to stop being so wishy washy and pick a side. Your either going to be governed by the democrats or the republicans.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 8:38 a.m.

    Mark, instead of being wish-washy you could do what I do. Visit your county clerk's office, hold your nose, register as a Republican for a couple of weeks, attend caucuses, and then make another trip to the courthouse so you can change registration back to Unaffiliated.

    But an open primary would be a whole lot easier.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 8:52 a.m.

    As published in the Salt Lake Tribune, February 28. 2014:

    "These precinct caucus meetings are a grass-roots level of political involvement in Utah and are best served by a broad representation of Utah citizens," The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ governing First Presidency writes in a letter to be read over Mormon pulpits across the state. "Those who attend play a critical role in selecting candidates for public office."

  • Lightbearer Brigham City, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 9:16 a.m.

    Re: "America is not a direct Democracy. It is a Democratic Republic."

    And if the candidates are chosen by primaries instead of caucuses we will still be a republic, we will still have a representative form of government.

    The fact that we elect people to represent us in the government in no way implies or requires that we must choose representatives to choose the representatives to choose the representatives to choose the candidates for public office, instead of simply choosing the candidates ourselves in a primary election. It is not one of the requirements of a republic that there be layer after layer after layer of representatives until you finally get down to the actual voters. There is nothing anti-republican in eliminating the caucus-middlemen and having the voters select the candidates for public office themselves in primary elections, just as they elect their representatives in Congress themselves in congressional elections.

  • m.g. scott clearfield, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 9:39 a.m.

    I will plead relative ignorance on this particular issue, as I haven't really paid that much attention to it. The only thing I will say is that if this is a move being made by the minority in Utah, namely Democrats and Independents to stifle the Republican Partys hold and dominance in Utah, then I'am against it. So many other states are completely dominated by the Democrat Party, like California where I came from, that I think it is good for the Republicans to hold a state where they dominate. However, if it is merely a move being made by Utahans to get different Republican candidates, then you don't need laws passed by the legislature, you need votes. Simple as that. Get out the vote. That's how Obama won the Iowa caucus over Clinton who was supposed to win there according to the polls.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 10:41 a.m.

    Let the people decide, directly with a vote and not thru somebody chosen by a few people in someone's private residence.

  • Sal Provo, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 11:02 a.m.

    Bravo! Well said. Hopefully our legislators are listening to the people on this one. If not, we shall vote them out of office beginning at the caucus level until we can change it for good this November.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 11:36 a.m.

    one old man

    Ogden, UT

    Mark, instead of being wish-washy you could do what I do. Visit your county clerk's office, hold your nose, register as a Republican for a couple of weeks, attend caucuses, and then make another trip to the courthouse so you can change registration back to Unaffiliated.

    But an open primary would be a whole lot easier.
    8:38 a.m. Feb. 28, 2014

    ==========

    Thanks too --

    I think I will do this --
    BUT
    I will need to repent, and shower over and over again for weeks.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 11:59 a.m.

    Count my vote is not a grass roots movement. It was created by a few wealthy investors who don't like the Tea Party. They seek to have only moderate to liberal candidates for Utahns to vote on.

    Our current system allows a wide variety of candidates to be on the final ballot, where they can present diverse ideas to the public, for them to vote on. I value that. I hope the vast majority of Utahns also value that.

    Count my vote wants you to have the choice of Huntsman or Matheson, and no one else. No Mike Lee, no Jason Chaffetz, no Rob Bishop, no Chris Stewart.

    You can see why all the liberal posters here are for count my vote. It allows a minority of Utahn's to control the majority.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 1:13 p.m.

    Harry,
    What survey are you talking about that shows that Utahns want to do away with the current system?

    I want to see who conducted that survey (IF it exists)

    ===

    And if we are going to let surveys (whoever conducts them) tell us what we want... why not just do away with elections all together and let the surveys tell us who we want to represent us? If you trust surveys totally.

    ===

    LDS Liberal,
    If you want to vote in the Republican Primary so bad... the LEAST you can do is register (so they can send you some party info, and ask for money). I'm an independent and I do it. It's easy to just ignore their email.

    ===

    I don't care if we get rid of the convention, but we should keep the party primaries the way they are (IMO). We don't need the left deciding who the Republican nominee will be.

    If you want to vote in the REPUBLICAN party primary... you should at least be willing to register.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 1:51 p.m.

    The majority of Utah voters are upset with the caucus system. Poll after poll indicates that.

    Mike Richard will have us believe that we will lose our Republic if we give up the caucus's...really Mike? Little dramatic don't you think?

    Other states do not have the caucus system and they seem to do well.

    I think the Eagle Forum, Sutherland Institute and others have lost their power over the voters and people of Utah. The new generation doesn't hold to their way of thinking and frankly it's a very good thing. Time that those groups stop controlling the election process.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 2:12 p.m.

    Utefan60,
    WHAT survey??

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 28, 2014 2:30 p.m.

    After a while, most organizations grow from being about a cause or issue to being about self preservation. This applies to most if not all even charitable organizations. We in this state have "franchised" Goodwill Foundation stores where the local "owner" and his wife have incomes from their charity franchise of over $600,000 a year. The same can be said about the NRA, to the Sierra Club. The both create crises of their own making to justify donations to support the organizations themselves, and less so for the causes they were established to help.

    The political parties are much this way now too. They are less about doing what is right for America, but rather that survival or the party itself. Keeping big dollar donors happy has become paramount. The current system is designed to keep influence focused down to the few, and shielding the representatives from the whims of the voting public. The parties are about protecting the party - not what is good for Utah.

  • D4inSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 4:02 p.m.

    @MIke R
    Try reading the Dan Jones poll of January 2014. I think it showed 65% want to change the system. Also, the BYU Center for the Study of Election and Democracy conducted a poll in November of 2013 and got similar numbers - 65% want their vote to count.

    Finally, its not changing the form of government. Its simply changing the way we choose who represents us.

  • D4inSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 4:25 p.m.

    MIke and 2bits,
    While you are reading the polls, you may also want to delve into the BYU professor's dialogue debunking Mr. Mero's (Sutherland Institute) assertion regarding the anti-caucus folks. I think the quote is - "irresponsible citizenship; irresponsible meaning single-issue voters, special-interest parasites, and uninformed citizens who think and vote based on selfish emotions."

    Wow! Just one man's opinion, but I think he defined the Eagle forum and far right perfectly.

  • 2 bit Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 4:34 p.m.

    D4inSLC,
    If you ask someone if they want their vote to count... what do you THINK they're going to say?

    That's a silly poll question.

    You vote counts in either system.

  • L White Springville, UT
    Feb. 28, 2014 6:42 p.m.

    Polls? Let's discuss polls. How any of those polled were registered Republicans? You would think that only registered Republicans should be asked questions on how to pick candidates to run on the Republican Party. Then, how many of those polled attended the last caucus meeting? If they can't even spend two hours at a caucus meeting, why should their input count? If they attended their caucus meeting, did they vote in the last primary? That really narrows the field, don't you think?

    I have all kinds of opinions about who the Democrats should run, but noDemocrat would ever ask me. I would never respect the opinion of anyone who is too busy to go to a caucus meeting or who 'forgot' what date the primary was held. That eliminates 94% of the 'voters' who think that being a citizen is too big a responsibility, but they still think that they have the right to change our country from a Democratic Republic to some that is more to their liking.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    March 1, 2014 12:29 p.m.

    @L White
    Springville, UT

    Dis-enfranchisement? Let's discuss Dis-enfranchisement.

    If they can't even spend two hours at a caucus meeting, why should their input count?

    =======

    Ya--
    Why should the men and women serving this country in uniform have their input count?
    Why should Police, Fire, Doctors, and Nurse have their input count?
    Why should LDS Missionaries through out the world have their input count?

    Because you have all the answers.

    "If they can't even spend two hours at a caucus meeting, why should their input count?"

    Thanks for trampling their Constitutional rights.

  • high school fan Huntington, UT
    March 2, 2014 6:10 a.m.

    If you talk Constitutional, then neither the Senate bill or Count My Vote are legal. The State cannot tell private entities, the a Republican and Democrat parties, how to conduct their business. There is a reason that an R or a D is besides their names. If you don't like to play the game, then run as an independent.

  • high school fan Huntington, UT
    March 2, 2014 6:14 a.m.

    Sorry LDS Liberal but the Constitution backs the parties and not your point if view. The Constitution gives you the right to vote but not the right to decide who represents the Parties of this state. That right belongs to the parties. Don't confuse the issues.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    March 2, 2014 2:12 p.m.

    re: Mark l

    What works for sodas doesn't necessarily work for politics.

    We need a multiple parties. Israel has too many & the 3 in the UK don't cut it. 5 seems like a reasonable number.

  • Linus Bountiful, UT
    March 2, 2014 7:13 p.m.

    I don't understand why the uninvolved, apathetic and uninformed electorate want to hijack the party nominating process . . . unless it is intended as a strategy for weakening the dominant party in Utah.

    Eliminating our long-standing caucus/convention nominating process will surrender the power of the people to power-brokers and expensive media sound-bytes. The wealthy and big-money special interests who can afford to broadcast meaningless slogans and plant name recognition in the minds of lazy voters will "sway the masses" to the detriment of Utah's interests.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    March 3, 2014 7:47 a.m.

    Mark l
    SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    All you unaffiliated people need to stop being so wishy washy and pick a side. Your either going to be governed by the democrats or the republicans.

    8:10 a.m. Feb. 28, 2014

    one old man
    Ogden, UT
    Mark, instead of being wish-washy you could do what I do. Visit your county clerk's office, hold your nose, register as a Republican for a couple of weeks, attend caucuses, and then make another trip to the courthouse so you can change registration back to Unaffiliated.

    But an open primary would be a whole lot easier.

    8:38 a.m. Feb. 28, 2014

    ===========

    Thanks for the tip one old man,
    I did it.

    I held my nose and went on-line and registered as a Republican.
    Afterwards, I will re-registrure as Unaffiliated.

    Working with in a Stupid System,
    and Stupid is as Stupid Does.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    March 4, 2014 7:06 a.m.

    Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah

    Further, I don't think that any court inside or outside of Utah would allow Democrats and Independant voters to decide which candidate represents the Republican Party in the General Election. Each Party is allowed to choose its own candidates without input from the other political parties.

    3:26 a.m. Feb. 28, 2014

    ==========

    OK Mike,
    I'm now "Offically" a registured Republican.
    Just like you.

    I did it for 3 reasons.
    1. So that I can actually have some say-so.
    2. So guys like you can't dictate to the rest of us.
    3. I can now follow our Church leaders admonishment to attend a caucus.

    There, are you happy now?