It is a total affront to me to see so many misrepresentations in a letter to the
editor. Which surveys say "a majority" of citizens want to give up a
Democratic Republlic form of government? I'm not familiar with any survey
that has asked that question. That is the only pertinent question that applies
when Count My Vote is trying to change our Democratic Republic into a direct
Democrary. America is not a direct Democracy. It is a Democratic Republic.Further, I don't think that any court inside or outside of Utah
would allow Democrats and Independant voters to decide which candidate
represents the Republican Party in the General Election. Each Party is allowed
to choose its own candidates without input from the other political parties.
I agree with Harry Puckett. The people, not the party, should choose how the
candidates for the general election are chosen. People matter a LOT more than
party. Especially in a de facto one-party sate like Utah, the people should be
able to vote to select the candidates as soon as possible, and all of the people
should be able to choose in the final candidate for any party. That is why I
support Count My Vote, and urge everyone to support it. Let the people choose,
not the party.
Well said. That is exactly what our legislators who are trying to hold on to
their power need to hear!
"I encourage all Utah voters to let the Legislature know who the people
believe should control the political process in Utah by signing the Count My
Vote Utah initiative petition."And by voting out all the
supporters of SB54.
The LDS General Authorities have encouraged all of us to participate in the
Elections.How can we do that when MOST of us are NON-card carrying
Lemmings -- i.e., Independent & Un-affiliated voters?We
can't.The system is broken.Those of us who
disenfranchised vote for PERSON, and Never EVER for the Party.Something needs to change.
All you unaffiliated people need to stop being so wishy washy and pick a side.
Your either going to be governed by the democrats or the republicans.
Mark, instead of being wish-washy you could do what I do. Visit your county
clerk's office, hold your nose, register as a Republican for a couple of
weeks, attend caucuses, and then make another trip to the courthouse so you can
change registration back to Unaffiliated. But an open primary would
be a whole lot easier.
As published in the Salt Lake Tribune, February 28. 2014:"These
precinct caucus meetings are a grass-roots level of political involvement in
Utah and are best served by a broad representation of Utah citizens," The
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ governing First Presidency
writes in a letter to be read over Mormon pulpits across the state. "Those
who attend play a critical role in selecting candidates for public office."
Re: "America is not a direct Democracy. It is a Democratic Republic."And if the candidates are chosen by primaries instead of caucuses we
will still be a republic, we will still have a representative form of
government.The fact that we elect people to represent us in the
government in no way implies or requires that we must choose representatives to
choose the representatives to choose the representatives to choose the
candidates for public office, instead of simply choosing the candidates
ourselves in a primary election. It is not one of the requirements of a republic
that there be layer after layer after layer of representatives until you finally
get down to the actual voters. There is nothing anti-republican in eliminating
the caucus-middlemen and having the voters select the candidates for public
office themselves in primary elections, just as they elect their representatives
in Congress themselves in congressional elections.
I will plead relative ignorance on this particular issue, as I haven't
really paid that much attention to it. The only thing I will say is that if
this is a move being made by the minority in Utah, namely Democrats and
Independents to stifle the Republican Partys hold and dominance in Utah, then
I'am against it. So many other states are completely dominated by the
Democrat Party, like California where I came from, that I think it is good for
the Republicans to hold a state where they dominate. However, if it is merely a
move being made by Utahans to get different Republican candidates, then you
don't need laws passed by the legislature, you need votes. Simple as that.
Get out the vote. That's how Obama won the Iowa caucus over Clinton who
was supposed to win there according to the polls.
Let the people decide, directly with a vote and not thru somebody chosen by a
few people in someone's private residence.
Bravo! Well said. Hopefully our legislators are listening to the people on
this one. If not, we shall vote them out of office beginning at the caucus
level until we can change it for good this November.
one old man Ogden, UTMark, instead of being wish-washy
you could do what I do. Visit your county clerk's office, hold your nose,
register as a Republican for a couple of weeks, attend caucuses, and then make
another trip to the courthouse so you can change registration back to
Unaffiliated. But an open primary would be a whole lot easier.8:38 a.m. Feb. 28, 2014==========Thanks too -- I think I will do this -- BUTI will need to repent, and
shower over and over again for weeks.
Count my vote is not a grass roots movement. It was created by a few wealthy
investors who don't like the Tea Party. They seek to have only moderate to
liberal candidates for Utahns to vote on. Our current system allows
a wide variety of candidates to be on the final ballot, where they can present
diverse ideas to the public, for them to vote on. I value that. I hope the vast
majority of Utahns also value that.Count my vote wants you to have
the choice of Huntsman or Matheson, and no one else. No Mike Lee, no Jason
Chaffetz, no Rob Bishop, no Chris Stewart. You can see why all the
liberal posters here are for count my vote. It allows a minority of Utahn's
to control the majority.
Harry,What survey are you talking about that shows that Utahns want to do
away with the current system?I want to see who conducted that survey
(IF it exists)===And if we are going to let surveys
(whoever conducts them) tell us what we want... why not just do away with
elections all together and let the surveys tell us who we want to represent us?
If you trust surveys totally.===LDS Liberal,If you
want to vote in the Republican Primary so bad... the LEAST you can do is
register (so they can send you some party info, and ask for money). I'm an
independent and I do it. It's easy to just ignore their email. ===I don't care if we get rid of the convention, but we
should keep the party primaries the way they are (IMO). We don't need the
left deciding who the Republican nominee will be.If you want to vote
in the REPUBLICAN party primary... you should at least be willing to register.
The majority of Utah voters are upset with the caucus system. Poll after poll
indicates that.Mike Richard will have us believe that we will lose
our Republic if we give up the caucus's...really Mike? Little dramatic
don't you think? Other states do not have the caucus system
and they seem to do well. I think the Eagle Forum, Sutherland
Institute and others have lost their power over the voters and people of Utah.
The new generation doesn't hold to their way of thinking and frankly
it's a very good thing. Time that those groups stop controlling the
After a while, most organizations grow from being about a cause or issue to
being about self preservation. This applies to most if not all even charitable
organizations. We in this state have "franchised" Goodwill Foundation
stores where the local "owner" and his wife have incomes from their
charity franchise of over $600,000 a year. The same can be said about the NRA,
to the Sierra Club. The both create crises of their own making to justify
donations to support the organizations themselves, and less so for the causes
they were established to help.The political parties are much this
way now too. They are less about doing what is right for America, but rather
that survival or the party itself. Keeping big dollar donors happy has become
paramount. The current system is designed to keep influence focused down to the
few, and shielding the representatives from the whims of the voting public. The
parties are about protecting the party - not what is good for Utah.
@MIke RTry reading the Dan Jones poll of January 2014. I think it showed
65% want to change the system. Also, the BYU Center for the Study of Election
and Democracy conducted a poll in November of 2013 and got similar numbers - 65%
want their vote to count. Finally, its not changing the form of
government. Its simply changing the way we choose who represents us.
MIke and 2bits,While you are reading the polls, you may also want to delve
into the BYU professor's dialogue debunking Mr. Mero's (Sutherland
Institute) assertion regarding the anti-caucus folks. I think the quote is -
"irresponsible citizenship; irresponsible meaning single-issue voters,
special-interest parasites, and uninformed citizens who think and vote based on
selfish emotions." Wow! Just one man's opinion, but I
think he defined the Eagle forum and far right perfectly.
D4inSLC,If you ask someone if they want their vote to count... what do you
THINK they're going to say?That's a silly poll
question.You vote counts in either system.
Polls? Let's discuss polls. How any of those polled were registered
Republicans? You would think that only registered Republicans should be asked
questions on how to pick candidates to run on the Republican Party. Then, how
many of those polled attended the last caucus meeting? If they can't even
spend two hours at a caucus meeting, why should their input count? If they
attended their caucus meeting, did they vote in the last primary? That really
narrows the field, don't you think?I have all kinds of opinions
about who the Democrats should run, but noDemocrat would ever ask me. I would
never respect the opinion of anyone who is too busy to go to a caucus meeting or
who 'forgot' what date the primary was held. That eliminates 94% of
the 'voters' who think that being a citizen is too big a
responsibility, but they still think that they have the right to change our
country from a Democratic Republic to some that is more to their liking.
@L WhiteSpringville, UTDis-enfranchisement? Let's discuss
Dis-enfranchisement.If they can't even spend two hours at a
caucus meeting, why should their input count? ======= Ya-- Why should the men and women serving this country in uniform have
their input count?Why should Police, Fire, Doctors, and Nurse have their
input count?Why should LDS Missionaries through out the world have their
input count?Because you have all the answers."If
they can't even spend two hours at a caucus meeting, why should their input
count?"Thanks for trampling their Constitutional rights.
If you talk Constitutional, then neither the Senate bill or Count My Vote are
legal. The State cannot tell private entities, the a Republican and Democrat
parties, how to conduct their business. There is a reason that an R or a D is
besides their names. If you don't like to play the game, then run as an
Sorry LDS Liberal but the Constitution backs the parties and not your point if
view. The Constitution gives you the right to vote but not the right to decide
who represents the Parties of this state. That right belongs to the parties.
Don't confuse the issues.
re: Mark lWhat works for sodas doesn't necessarily work for
politics. We need a multiple parties. Israel has too many & the
3 in the UK don't cut it. 5 seems like a reasonable number.
I don't understand why the uninvolved, apathetic and uninformed electorate
want to hijack the party nominating process . . . unless it is intended as a
strategy for weakening the dominant party in Utah. Eliminating our
long-standing caucus/convention nominating process will surrender the power of
the people to power-brokers and expensive media sound-bytes. The wealthy and
big-money special interests who can afford to broadcast meaningless slogans and
plant name recognition in the minds of lazy voters will "sway the
masses" to the detriment of Utah's interests.
Mark lSALT LAKE CITY, UTAll you unaffiliated people need to stop
being so wishy washy and pick a side. Your either going to be governed by the
democrats or the republicans.8:10 a.m. Feb. 28, 2014one
old manOgden, UTMark, instead of being wish-washy you could do what
I do. Visit your county clerk's office, hold your nose, register as a
Republican for a couple of weeks, attend caucuses, and then make another trip to
the courthouse so you can change registration back to Unaffiliated. But an open primary would be a whole lot easier.8:38 a.m. Feb. 28,
2014=========== Thanks for the tip one old man, I
did it.I held my nose and went on-line and registered as a
Republican.Afterwards, I will re-registrure as Unaffiliated.Working with in a Stupid System, and Stupid is as Stupid Does.
Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, UtahFurther, I don't think
that any court inside or outside of Utah would allow Democrats and Independant
voters to decide which candidate represents the Republican Party in the General
Election. Each Party is allowed to choose its own candidates without input from
the other political parties.3:26 a.m. Feb. 28, 2014========== OK Mike, I'm now "Offically" a
registured Republican.Just like you.I did it for 3 reasons.1. So that I can actually have some say-so.2. So guys like you
can't dictate to the rest of us.3. I can now follow our Church
leaders admonishment to attend a caucus.There, are you happy now?