Brutal, although interesting, evaluations of murphy and denham. Definately
don't sound like draftable players or even guys with a chance based on this
stuff.murphy - "lethargic release, average speed, stiff
movement, unrefined route runner, get's over powered, ordinary, not
especially strong, over aged". About the only thing sorta nice they could
say about him was he was dale murphy's son. That is not a recipe for
draftability and definately not what utah "fans" have been proclaiming
about the guy.denham - "marginal speed, gives up, struggles,
does not keep working, disinterested, lackadaisical, no special teams
value". Hardly sounds like either of them has much of a shot at
being drafted and that is to bad, I like to see the local guys do well once they
leave here but with evaluations like those I really don't see how they have
much hope to be drafted.
Palepoi on the otherhand had a much better evaluation. It sounded like he may
have a chance.
Duckhunter, you realize those are the evaluations made before the combine.
That's a large part of why they go to the combine is to show aspects of
their game that they've worked on.Denham's "marginal
speed" ended up clocking a pretty comparable 40 time with the other TEs,
which I admit is a small disappointment based on how his speed was one of his
traits that made him pretty highly coveted coming out of JUCO. You also left out
key points in your quotes. "Gives up break points" (the actual quote) is
a lot different assessment than "gives up," as well as "does not
keep working to uncover" and "lackadaisical blocker" being actual
assessments of his skills, rather than "does not keep working" and
"lackadaisical," which would be character flaws, which is what they have
individual interviews to observe for. He was not one many expected to be drafted
in the first place, but his size, athleticism and receiving ability were
intriguing enough for scouts to desire a closer look at him.
@duckhunterI'm glad you took the time to read the combine
weaknesses from pro scouts, and then publish them as a comment. Murphey knew his
injury would put him as a late rounder, but he's got to support his family
like a man. Denham seems desperate to play, he didn't play TE last year at
all. Did you take the time to read analysis on the boys on TDS? Does anyone else
remember when everyone in Provo said they had 3 first rounders last year, but
KVN and Hoffman were coming back to beat the Utes? None of that is happening.
KVN will go early second since he lacks elite talent like Khalil or Barr, and
Hoffmans combine performances has him sinking into the 3rd to 4th.
cont.Murphy had several strengths listed that you neglect to mention,
including his sure hands and blocking ability. I would say he wouldn't have
left school early if he hadn't been told in his draft grade evaluation that
he had a good chance of being drafted, although I think another year would have
benefitted him in improving his draft position.Palepoi seems to have
done well for himself at the combine, clocking a decent 40 time for his size,
and the 3rd best vertical and broad jumps for true defensive tackles.The in-state guy I think will be the biggest surprise is Joe Don Duncan out of
Dixie, who put up pretty incredible bench press numbers, and looked like
Gronkowski against D-II competition this year. He has some great hands, and
huge, muscular build. I think he may be a steal for a team in the 4th or 5th
@stgNo I put down what the NFL made as evaluations.
"Lackadaisical" is lackadaisical no matter what the context stg, you can
try to spin that but it isn't working. "Does not keep working"
speaks for itself, no context needed. "lackadiasical", "gives
up", "does not keep working", are hardly attributes regardless of
what he "gives up", "does not keep working", and is
"lackadaisical" doing. It doesn't even make sense for you to debate
me about it since anyone can look it up and read it.As for murphy,
well what's your spin there? Nothing they wrote about him was in the least
Duckhunter, I would think that you would be more concerned about Cody
Hoffmann's performance.Slow and can't jump. At 6'4"
equated to a 5'9" receiver who could actually get off the ground.
@romeI did read all of the evaluations for all of the players for
both BYU and utah. The evaluations for the BYU players were actually much better
than the ones for the utah players, with all 5 of them stating they could be
players and contributors, sorry just the way it is, I'm not the one doing
the evaluations, NFL experts are.I just find it interesting based on
how many utah "fans" around here consider themselves talent evaluators
and how they brag about how much NFL talent utah "has". murphy in
particular doesn't appear to be much of a prospect based on that evaluation
neither does denham. reilly looks like he'll get drafted, and as I said
palepoi looks like he has a chance as well.
@stgAnd those evaluations ore murphies and denham's evaluations
from the combine, not pre combine. TE's had their day on Saturday.But now you're trying to not give the entire picture on murphy,
let's look at the entire quotes and not your cherry picking."Functional as a back-side hinge blocker or move blocker.... In-line
blocking needs work."Inline blocking is most of what a TE needs
to do, not to mention "functional" is hardly high praise for any type of
anything.As for the other part....."Sure hands are his only
standout trait." Well once again that say's "sure hands are his
ONLY standout trait." Not blocking, not anything else, just "sure
hands". You know I'm not making this stuff up, it is NFL
scouts doing it.
@stringerHere's what they said about Hoffman."Bottom Line A big, outside-the-numbers possession receiver with good
length and hand-eye coordination to fend for a roster spot as a No. 4 or No. 5
receiver."Sounds to me like they expect him to be on a roster.
That is the nice thing about the combine, these guys went through the process,
and it showed some flaws that they can work on between now and Utah's pro
day. Murphy's testing at the combine was almost identical to
Zach Ertz, who was a 2nd rounder last year. He certainly won't go that
high, but I'm sure he will get picked up and do well.Denham
absolutely looks the part of a physical stud, I sure hope a team gives him a
Duck, It doesn't take a professional talent scout to tell you
the facts. Current number of players on an active NFL roster, per ESPN.University of Utah: 25Brigham Young University: 9I
don't think its interesting that fans of any school think there players are
NFL quality, that's pretty typical if you ask me.
@ DuckhunterUte fans consider themselves experts solely on the basis of
the Utes beating BYU year in and year out. Hardly grounds to be a NFL scout
that's for sure. That makes about as much sense as all those BYU fans
saying Jimmer was a can't miss in the NBA.
As usual Duckhunter has been looking with blue lenses. First, the analysis is
certainly done pre-workout. For example, Keith McGill hasn't worked out
yet, but has an analysis including bottom line. Second, each of the players has
a rating. The scale indicates that 4.75- 4.99 is a player that will be in a
camp. A 5.00 player has a 50/50 chance of making a roster. 5.01- 5.19 has a
better than average chance to make a roster. 5.20- 5.49 is likely to be a NFL
backup. 5.50-5.99 rating indicates the player has a chance to be a starter.
The following players are below 5.0-- Denham. 5.01- 5.19 includes Murphy,
Hoffman, Manumaleuna, Sorenson, and Unga. 5.20- 5.49 includes McGill, Palepoi,
Reilly. VanNoy is a 5.55. Looks like Denham isn't likely to stick (seems
fair). And a bunch of them have a 50/50 shot.
"And those evaluations ore murphies and denham's evaluations from the
combine, not pre combine. "You're wrong again. They were
the pre-combine evaluations. Anyone else who cared to look at the profiles
before the combine started knows this is the case. You didn't, so you make
your case on stubbornness, not on anything you checked beforehand.Also, your claim of scouts' evaluations of BYU players being
"actually much better than the ones for the utah players" shows your
obvious bias.The website's ratings on each player:Hoffman: 5.07 (Better-than-average chance to make NFL roster)Manumaleuna: 5.15 (Better-than-average chance to make NFL roster)Sorensen: 5.05 (Better-than-average chance to make NFL roster)Unga: 5.2
(NFL backup or special teams potential)VanNoy: 5.55 (Chance to become NFL
starter)Denham: 4.7 (Chance to be in an NFL training camp)McGill:
5.35 (NFL backup or special teams potential)Murphy: 5.1
(Better-than-average chance to make NFL roster)Palepoi: 5.3 (NFL backup or
special teams potential)Reilly: 5.35 (NFL backup or special teams
potential)Again, these WERE pre-combine grades, they don't
update them day-to-day, so we'll have to see what they all end up as.
RBN, wow someone else actually gets it! I agree with you, Denham isn't
someone that looks likely to be an NFL player, but what he does have are some
raw physical talents, which many teams are giving opportunities for at TE these
days (ie Antonio Gates, Jimmy Graham, Julius Thomas, etc), trying to coach up,
rather than taking fundamental guys with limited physical skill sets.
Duckhunter now seems missing in action. I wish all the local players luck in
the draft. Given that most of the local players are not sure things, I hope
they all get drafted by teams that are a good fit for them. By all accounts,
Murphy and Palepoi have had good combines. Hoffman has some ground to make up
after a poor combine.
Bill Riley is tweeting that Wilson has been cleared to play and participate in
Spring ballGreat news for him and the team.Go Utes!!
Wow, Keith McGill with a 4.40 unofficial 40. That's good for 3rd best out
of DBs so far.
If the NFL thing doesn't work out for Murphy, he can always get a job in
the hot tub industry.
Ed, only in your dreams.