Rax used the nation’s lack of immigration enforcement. Immigration reform
is amnesty and less enforcement. It's the cause of this situation.
@RichardB: Rax used the threat of immigration enforcement to his advantage. If
there was no enforcement there would be no threat. I don't understand your
comment at all. Jay is right about this, although if that were the only argument
for reform it wouldn't carry much weight. A far better argument is the need
to bring 11 million people out of the shadows into the legitimate economy. These
people aren't going away, so let's get a path to legitimacy for them
and end this unhealthy situation.
Richard B and Invisible Hand,I think you both have a point. We need
a strong border (which includes checking employment once in the US). But for
those here we have to have a program to bring them into the light and law.Both make sense.
We don't reward bank robbers by letting them keep the money they steal.
Illegal immigrants should similarly not be rewarded for their crimes. Obey the
law and then come to our country.
Another article supporting some kind of amnesty to illegal aliens. The answer to
this and other terrible conditions is not some kind of amnesty, but rather to
enforce our immigration laws at the border.I really feel bad for
kids or adults who are exploited. No one deserves to be mistreated. But
let's not forget how these conditions came about. A whole bunch of people
every day sneak across our borders and ignore our laws. Now we are not only
supposed to be sorry for their plight, but we are supposed to change our laws to
accommodate them.It is like a prostitite who lives a horrible life
to support a nasty drug habit. The answer is not to make drugs free so she can
get high all day without needing to sell herself to get money for them.
The procurers of these "services" are equally reprehensible. They enable
this slavery and when caught, should be prosecuted to the full extent of the
It's our lack of interior enforcement that allows people to return several
times and stay in the shadows, instead of being deported like the law specifies.
In the 1986 and 1996 "reforms" the border/e-verify/interior
enforcement/more judges/and a visa entry-exit system were all passed as law, but
none were enforced. Comprehensive reform is a failed policy, as it only gives
amnesty with a promise of enforcement that never happens. Amnesty
will only create more dishonesty, more people coming here illegally, ignoring
our immigration laws. The past seven amnesties prove this out. (1 under Reagan,
six under Clinton). Amnesties created this problem, it never solved it in the
past. Judicial system deterrents are the best way to stop crime, we must have
consequences for illegal activity.People and business breaking the
law will always be in the shadow, it's the nature for people committing
crimes. They can take themselves out by following the law. Rax is
what happens when we stop enforcing laws.
Twin lights, we have a way to bring them into the light, it's called
following the law. “Comprehensive” immigration reform is
part of the bad faith that has surrounded immigration issues for decades. What
“comprehensive” reform means is that border control and amnesty
should be voted on together in Congress. Why? Because that would be politically
convenient for members of Congress, who like to be on both sides of issues, so
as to minimize the backlash from the voting public. Let's not
forget that without business that illegally hire people, there is no problem.
Allowing Utah businesses to get away with this, and giving them amnesty for the
harm they have done, is wrong. You want to stop this activity, stop the business
owners that encourage people to come here illegally, then reward them with jobs.
Nice spin, Ken Wallentine, Jay Evensen, and Deseret News. A most disgusting
rationalization for non-enforcement of immigration law. After all, legalization
is nothing less than official refusal to enforce immigration law. Adopt the lawlessness of one country, so that this country too becomes a
nation of lawlessness. If one truly believes that is morally right, then why
the need for the euphemism, "immigration reform?" Why not proudly call
it what it really is, "subversion of the rule of law through retroactive
legalization of residency status of persons in the country illegally?" "...Rax used the nation's lack of immigration reform as an
accomplice." I see. So the problem isn't the criminality
of this individual, nor the illegal presence of tens of millions, nor the
virtual lack of enforcement of immigration law -- which, make no mistake about
it, is why they are here in such vast numbers in the first place. Rather, lack
of "immigration reform" is the cause of this slavery problem. Yes,
I'm sure that's right@Invisible Hand: If there were
earnest enforcement, they wouldn't be here in the first place. They are
here precisely because there is no enforcement to speak of.
How does giving amnesty stop this from happening again with the next wave of
people coming here illegally? Calling out it's fellow Salt Lake
City Chamber of Commerce members to stop supporting illegal immigration would do
more good to stop this, than twisting a sad story into a pro-amnesty piece.
Slavery isn't the only way these children are victimized. Their parents
and others also are TEACHING THEM, by precept and by example, that dishonesty,
illegality, and disrespect for one's neighbor is the correct pathway to
U.S. residency and an American education. Once again, there is no
true compassion in looking the other way at or rewarding illegality. As someone
aptly pointed out, true compassion is sending one's neighbor on the path of
righteousness. The most gracious thing this nation could do for these
individuals is to DEPORT THEM to their lawful countries of residence, WITH the
parent(s) who brought them here. This would teach them that the
lesson taught them by their parents and/or by false teachers in this country
with ulterior motivations, was an immoral one.Thus reunited with
extended family (and, in many cases, immediate family), these may instead grow
up in truth and in righteousness and make a positive contribution to their
communities, in their home countries.Again, if people honestly
believe we basically should toss the 12th Article of Faith, then why don't
they just come out and say it? Why cloak the ideology in a EUPHEMISM,
What some of you fail to acknowledge is that immigration enforcement is higher
now in the past five years than ever before. Border security is tougher now
than ever before. You will never, ever, ever have leak proof borders. Your
focus is on those trying to come to the U.S., but what about the market
conditions, including the demand for cheap labor by employers. Here is an idea
for you. Set up an open borders system, register all folks coming in, and let
the free market govern, with criminals being punished and deported. All the
moralistic rationalization in the world won't make the immigration issue go
away, and neither will tougher enforcement.
"All slave holders rely on the same thing — convincing their subjects
that escape is either hopeless or would bring about worse consequences". Is
this not the same situation with employees? "Fear of
deportation is as powerful as the fear of a whip in the antebellum South".
Could we just as well substitute the word unemployment for deportation? Isn't voluntary slavery the same as involuntary slavery, really?
@EsquireThe Obama administration's documented, systematic
inflation of deportation numbers -- in a calculated effort to deceive Americans
as to Obama's loyalty to his oath of office and in order to discourage
Americans as regards the value of immigration law enforcement, is particularly
cunning and underhanded. Turn-aways at the border are being counted as
deportations, when previous administrations did not count these as deportations.
The reality is that under Obama, deportations FROM THE
NATION'S INTERIOR have gone WAY, WAY down. But already it is
ridiculous to assert that immigration law enforcement is higher than ever,
considering the unprecedented, virtual immunity to immigration law which has
been specifically and singlehandedly decreed by Obama and is enjoyed today by
virtually all illegal aliens in this country. It is a lie to imply that
immigration law enforcement is impossible or futile."You will
never, ever, ever have leak proof borders."You are right about
that. Hence the importance of earnest enforcement of immigration and other
laws, in the nation's interior, in tandem with border enforcement.And Open Borders would be great for businessmen's and stockholders'
bottom lines, but it would be devastating for the rest of the nation.
Esquire, Obama himself said his numbers were fixed to look like they were higher
than they actually are. Plenty of people have posted it here before, but here it
is for the upteenth time. "The statistics are actually a little
deceptive," Obama said last month (sept 2011) during a discussion with
Hispanic journalists. There has been "a much greater emphasis on criminals
than non-criminals." And "with stronger border enforcement, we've
been apprehending folks at the borders and sending them back. That is counted as
a deportation even though they may have only been held for a day or 48
hours." (from a speech in Denver)E-verify, interior enforcement
(deport when discovered), and checking for visa overstays goes a long way to
enforce our border. Just using the border itself is not very honest. Once people
cross it, they know there is very little chance they are deported. That needs to
change, and is reason enough not to pass any amnesty until past laws are
Utah political, business, and religious leaders came together and created a
proposal for handling immigration and legalization of immigrants. Why
don't Utah's delegation of US House & Senate representatives push
that proposal? We recognize that we won't have a perfect,
non-permeable border. I agree with Esquire (hard to believe I said that)--open
the borders, allow the market to command supply & demand. But, in order to
open the borders we must get control of our entitlement programs. We can't
be giving free state college tuition to non-citizens, we can't treat every
non-citizen in our ERs for free, and we can't be giving out food stamps to
non-citizens.Entitlement reform must be a part of open borders. You
have Democrats actually advertising US food stamps in Mexico.We must
also have a careful screening process to root out criminals and terrorists
before an open border policy and structure could be put in place. But I agree with Esquire, open borders would be the ideal.
Enforce our existing laws, and build a better wall.
Too bad, "anti-liar" and "prelax", my info comes from folks
involved in immigration litigation. I suspect yours comes from talking heads on
cable TV. I'll stand by my statement. I'm really comfortable with
it. You guys are partisans and will never be objective.
RichardB,Yes, there would be little illegal immigration if
businesses would not hire them. And preventing these hires in the future needs
to be part of the reform (e-verify).But the reform does have to be
comprehensive and include a path (not necessarily citizenship – but a
path) forward for those already here.The reality is we have families
with kids who were born and raised here. Folks who have been here for more than
a decade.There are thought to be about 11-12 million folks here.
Just shipping them all back is not a viable option. Do we implement e-verify
and just have them all unemployed so they will “self-deport”. Sure,
that might work for some. For some it will mean turning to charity or turning
to crime. Whatever they do, the results will not be pretty.We have
to get realistic. And enforcement alone is simply not realistic.
At what age is a person personally accountable for his own actions? Is he ever
old enough to stop making excuses and to stop blaming everyone else for the fact
that he broke the law when he entered the United States illegally? Is he ever
old enough to take responsibility that his family will suffer as long as he
remains in the United States illegally? Is he ever going to do the right thing
and deport himself and his family and stay out of the United States until he can
re-enter properly?There is a consequence to every action. Expecting
a "blessing" for breaking the law is absurd. Expecting amnesty for
illegally entering this country while millions wait to enter legally is aiding
and abetting criminal acts.If you want to stop this, demand that our
laws be enforced by our leaders, no matter what party they belong to. Opening our border and leting in billions of people from third world countries
is not an option.
Twin Lights, enforcement is the only answer that does continue down the same
road. Amnesty by citizenship or residency (and work) will only cause the law
breaking to continue. It would be better to deal with it now, than deal with it
next time when there is 30 million people here illegally. It will just get worse
as people from India and China realize they do not have to follow our laws.
Children born here have duel citizenship, they are returned with their parents,
and at 18 eligible to return as citizens. Deporting 12 million,
according to a government study done in 2007 by the Immigrations and Customs
Enforcement agency put the cost at 94 billion. This is a one time cost, that
does not include self deportation. The Federation for American Immigration
Reform puts the cost of illegal immigration at $113 billion per year. When you
add in the boost to our economy from putting millions of Americans back to work
in non agriculture jobs, we can't afford not to. Amnesty
removes the threat of enforcement against dishonest business. It's no
wonder they are pushing for it to be passed.
I have a solution to illegal immigration:Attack the source.Meaning, if you hire an illegal, you automatically lose your business and will
be sent to prison for 10+ years. You'd be surprised how quickly the
illegals would go back home and how few would come if we actually punished
business owners who for decades have thumbed their noses at our laws.