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Doug Robinson: Boys basketball team holds ball for the entire fourth quarter to send a message

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  • 123456 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 8:47 a.m.

    The UHSAA should at least move them up to 3A, despite their enrollment. The only team to beat them in the state of Utah in 2 years has been Judge last year, who was 3A then. That simple move would alleviate some of this and they would find 3A much more competitive than 2A. With the talent they have it is a bit of joke to have them in 2A, I would agree. But, sometimes teams come around for a year or two that are just clearly better than anyone else. Look at Lone Peak last year and Bountiful this year. That does happen.

  • sherlock holmes Eastern, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 8:50 a.m.

    Private schools have way too much of an advantage in getting good athletes. What parent, especially those with limited means, wouldn't jump at the chance to send his/her kid to JD, Judge, or even Wasatch Academy free of charge?

    And I like these schools. Much respect for their academic programs, even sports programs. But they have tools to recruit athletes that public schools don't have.

    Here's a possible solution: 4a or 5a for football, soccer and basketball.

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 8:52 a.m.

    Interesting to say the least! If you know the history of Wasatch Academy, for decades they have never been able to compete in boys basketball, and then all of the sudden they start to win state championships? Something doesn't feel right with this one. I think the UHSAA needs to step back and really look at the situation.Call it what you will, but it is not right!

  • a bball fan Kamas, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 9:01 a.m.

    This is a UHSAA problem. What do the kids from Wasatch Academy care if they win a state championship? They are on to bigger and better things, like college ball. Seems extremely unfair for them to compete against kids who have grown up playing ball and working their tails off, only to be dominated by 5 players headed to Division 1 basketball. Poor planning by UHSAA and how sportsmanlike is it to put a team together like this from several countries. Ridiculous.

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 9:09 a.m.

    This is obvious to everyone and has created a nasty environment dragging all other private schools into the fire.

  • Gone fishin Seattle, WA
    Feb. 12, 2014 9:34 a.m.

    Sounds very similar to what the utes tried a few years ago when they tried to beat BYU.

  • Rural sport fan DUCHESNE, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 9:34 a.m.

    In Wasatch Academy's favor, they already have asked to be moved up in the state classification. The problem is, this has been an issue in 1A for two decades, and the UHSAA has ignored it or glossed over it despite the fact that everyone, including the private schools, knew it wasn't fair.

    Just to be clear, not very private school plays the game this way, some are very good about not recruiting for sports, and they have up years and down years like the rest of us.

    Many kids have been where South Sevier and the rest of 2A is now. The state may eventually fix the problem, but the kids right now are getting the shaft. It's sad when a group of kids has worked for years to reach a goal, and some private school brings in a new group of kids and changes the entire game.

    Some states put private schools in their own category, or make them automatically part of a larger school classification, to equalize things. Not Utah.

  • aunt lucy Looneyville, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 9:43 a.m.

    Coach parson is a class act start to finish. I've watched him from his high school days to Snow to SUU and never seen anything but class. However, having his kids hold the ball to obtain their goals only shows how miscalculated his team goals were. Competing is about personal improvement. One is trying to become the best one can be. A truly great opponent only provides a great opportunity to challenge yourself at a level a weaker opponent cannot. To hold the ball and quit in the game sends exactly the opposite message. Wasatch Academy will certainly win the 2A state championship, but I will admire more those kids on the opposing teams who play all out, trying to take their game to levels even they didn't realize they could obtain. Those are the kids that truly know what it means to compete.

  • 1-5aFan Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 9:44 a.m.

    South Sevier shouldn't be the ones complaining when Hunt was there they were recruiting players from Wayne high school and North Sevier High school

  • Rocketman1986 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 9:45 a.m.

    My other question to the UHSAA is this: If Wasatch Academy does not recruit "athletes" how do you explain the success they have had in the last three years from players all over the world? Just by chance?

  • carver Enterprise, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 9:50 a.m.

    So if "success perpetuates success" as coach Geno Morgon states; what kind of team will Wasatch Academy have down the road? It seems to me that their reputation has jumped a mile after this years accomplishments. And; when you can use kids from around the world, you have a small advantage over other schools than can only use kids from twenty square miles. Only a small advantage though, right?

  • small town bball fan manti, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 9:51 a.m.

    Wasatch Academy should step up on their own and drop out of the 2a tournament. It's a state tournament not an international tournament. Maybe they could play the 2a all-star team later on, or challenge Lone Peak. They should just be in no region and play an independent schedule. That way they don't steal a championship, and it would be a fun game to play them.

  • Mtn Tracker Ephraim, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 10:02 a.m.

    Not trying to add fuel to the fire but, Geno Morgan doesn't even live here. He comes for four months to coach his team. The rest of his time is probably spent traveling around recruiting kids to come and play (on an Academic Scholarship of course). Wasatch academy is not a little unknown boarding school in Mt Pleasant like people from Utah know it. Celebrities and Diplomats etc have been sending their kids there for years. I don't know exactly what they charge but it's in the 10's of thousands per year. This whole blow up in sports was bound to happen. And if the fight is with the UHSAA and their lax bylaws then who's to say JD and Judge don't do it either. We all know the answer to that!

  • EJM Herriman, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 10:02 a.m.

    I agree with South Sevier and their stall tactics. We don't have a shot clock in the UHSAA. They can do what they want. Wasatch could have come out and played but chose not to. The 2A schools should be upset but Wasatch has abided by the rules. This will have to be visited by the UHSAA in the offseason.

  • Rural sport fan DUCHESNE, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 10:15 a.m.

    Small town BBall fan:

    I did a little research, turns out you nailed it, Wasatch actually did ask to be independent, the problem is the state associations all have agreements to NOT play teams that are not in the state system, and Utah has no way to let them be independent, but remain part of UHSAA.

    They also can't drop out of the tourney, due to UHSAA rules.

    So again, it's the UHSAA that simply cannot solve the problem despite 20+ years of complaints and suggestions from coaches.

    Eventually, the state needs to figure this out. Kids are having their dreams crushed by the UHSAA and it's glacially slow attempts to do anything constructive.

  • Coolio SLC, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 10:26 a.m.

    Terrible message sent by South Sevier. You know what would have been a better message? Win the game! South Sevier was only down 17, most teams at that point have been down 40 to Wasatch Academy. I have a hard time when South Sevier of all schools complains and does something as childish as this. They, after all, have been a dominant program, with multiple titles, and have had seasons where other teams could not play within 20 points of them.

    When you play a team like Wasatch Academy, who has incredible talent, you have two choices. Rise to their level and beat them, or attempt to rise to their level and fall short. But quitting? Complaining to the state that 2A basketball needs to have less talent? That is ridiculous and an embarrassment to small town basketball across America. This coming from South Sevier? A school with 430 students. I've seen school's with 25 students in 1A compete much harder, and win. Again, an embarrassment for small towns everywhere.

  • Rocketman1986 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 10:32 a.m.

    The fact remains that private schools DO NOT play by the same rules as the other schools. Call it what you want, but they have to recruit to get kids. Call them student athletes if you want, but they are there to play basketball. If they didn't have their athletic programs, my assumption is that all those kids are not at Wasatch Academy right now. My challenge to the UHSAA would be to prove otherwise. I seriously doubt that they can.

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 10:49 a.m.

    The rules are the same for public and private. Public can have International students beyond one year by the paying of tuition just as they do at private. WA may or may not be getting tuition from the bb players but I know the other private schools must have that tuition to pay the bills. This is why their teams have not dominated.

  • kanak.attack Provo, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 10:51 a.m.

    I don't agree with quitting 3/4 of the way through the game. You send a completely wrong message about what high school athletics is all about. Yes they most likely would have lost anyway but those players could have been shown how to step up their game in small, calculated ways against very good competition that would have made them better players in the long run. Strength is built in adversity if you rise to the challenge, and you don't have to win in order come out of it better than you were before.

    That being said, there is a major issue with private schools in high school athletics. Public school athletic teams choose from a pool of kids inside their school boundaries. Private school athletic teams choose from a pool of kids that's basically as large as you want to make it. You get someone that knows what they're doing to run the athletics department at a private school, the possibilities are endless on the potential you can reach. Which is what private schools should be doing. We should encourage private schools to compete with one another for status but in their own division.

  • IRS Agent PROVO, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 10:52 a.m.

    Sounds like sour grapes to me. Parson's son was on the South Sevier team that got beat out of the state tournament last year. He was expecting his son to sweep three straight state championships in high school to add to his trophy case and get more attention from college recruiters. That didn't happen and his son is now playing at SUU. This is his way of protesting.

  • the REAL DEAL Sandy, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:00 a.m.

    @gone fishin, what exactly does Utah or byu have to do with this story? well, since you went there. Utah sure didn't need any such strategy this year. They just rolled up the cougs any wich way they felt. expect more of the same in the future. Just like the old times.

  • footballisgood Holladay, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:04 a.m.

    Several states have a rule for private schools that is 'enrollment +1' So, they play up one classification from their enrollment numbers because of their inherent ability to recruit students to their school and the fact that they basically do not have boundaries. Why would this be so hard to do in Utah? It makes perfect sense to me, and I am sure that 3A would provide better competition.

  • Rocketman1986 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:10 a.m.

    @Coolio - I don't think you really understand the situation. No one in 2A is complaining that Wasatch Academy has more talent. That is not the argument. The fact is that all other 2A public schools have to use the kids that live in their little towns. They don't get to go out of state and out of the country to get kids. They simply do not have that option. They have a very select number of kids and they know that for years prior to them ever getting into high school. Plain and simply, it is not a level playing field. Wasatch recruits, public schools can't. You comment that it is an embarrassment is unfounded.

  • Bifftacular Spanish Fork, Ut
    Feb. 12, 2014 6:12 p.m.

    I don't blame either team/school for what they did or are doing. Both appear to be operating under the current rules. This is a UHSAA problem that needs to be fixed. If I was Wasatch, I'd be tired of playing against 2A teams that only have players from their hometowns. How enjoyable or competitive can that be? If I was Sevier, I'd be upset too if I had to play against a team that is basically operating under college recruiting rules. Hardly fair at all.

    I don't know the solution but this clearly needs to be fixed.

  • county mom Monroe, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:17 a.m.

    UHSAA is ridiculous in so many ways.

    Moving schools around like playing chess. It is crazy!

    Lets see now, we have 3A and 3AA football. We have teams playing football in one classification and wrestling in another. It is just plain crazy and stupid. Then add to this the private schools who in all reality recruit ALL their students. Academic and sports competitions are all tainted by private schools ability and necessity to recruit students. They can hire big dollar coaches and poach the best teachers. They absolutely must do this in order to make money teaching children. They must offer parents a better education and better opportunities for scholarships to students or they will go broke!

    It is stupid of the UHSAA to continue to think that the private school sector is not their direct competition!

    USHAA, Wake up and smell the skunks in the hen house!

  • Jessprom Moroni, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 6:20 p.m.

    It's sad to me that there is so much conflict over a basketball team. No one cared that WA was playing with students from around the world when they lost for over 100 years. Yes, now they are winning. They have an amazing coach who can teach anyone to play basketball. He has created a great, hard working team. These boys don't just get games handed to them, they work HARD for it. We don't play basketball, but we like to watch. We rodeo, in rodeo you compete against everyone regardless of where they are from. We teach that you are only as good as your toughest competition. Rather than fight to have that competition removed, other coaches should be asking for Coach Morgan's help. They should try to learn from someone who is doing a great job rather than try to drag that success down. I hope every team wants to win because they are the best, not because the best didn't play. Every athlete should dream of winning, not be told they aren't good enough to win. Because, in life, whether you think you can or you can't you're probably right.

  • Tiger Fan Orem, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:22 a.m.

    I was at that game to watch WA's potential D1 players. It appeared Morgan was also sending his message to the UHSAA. He chose to continue the stall, telling his players to stay back. Interesting, but had he been given the opportunity by South Sevier, he probably would have done as I have witnessed in other games this year, continued pressing and stealing in the 4th when up by 40. Is that teaching sportsmanship? UHSAA should have addressed this issue... not only for the 2A schools that have to play against some of the best international (some Jr. Olympic) players that are offered academic scholarships over $40,000 to attend Wasatch Academy, but ALSO to benefit the WA players who aren't getting better playing 2A basketball. They've proven they would best contend with the biggest divisions in Utah , beating Orem, Timpview and a 30 point win over the #1 ranked 3A team Morgan. They were averaging scoring 90 points a game against all of the teams this season and beating teams close to an average of 40 points until before they met up with South Sevier in this game. I'm sure Morgan would rather better prepare his players for D1.

  • Coolio SLC, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:24 a.m.

    In the last 10 years South Sevier has a record of 236-37 and 3 State Championships at the 2A level. Many of those wins and Championships came with players who moved in and caused controversy in some Southern Utah towns who felt their players were being recruited away by South Sevier. Not once did I ever read about another 2A school holding the ball in protest to South Sevier's dominance. Not once. With a dominating record of 236-37 and 3 state titles, 2 in the last 3 years, it seems to me that by South Seiver's own argument, they should drop out of the 2A tournament this year and allow another "small town" a chance to win. By their own argument South Sevier should also be moved up in classification. They are too good for 2A as well, with a much longer track record than WA in 2A dominance.

  • nebocreek Nephi, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:27 a.m.

    This is the same old problem that has existed for years. It happens even in charter school situations. In the European professional basketball leagues a team can only have up to a certain number of American or foreign athletes on their team. Maybe we should limit high school teams to 2 foreign players. This is really all about making the playing field as level as possible for all the schools. Normally, the more kids you have in school the more athletes you have to choose from. It certainly goes up and down over the years, but to be in a position that allows a school to recruit kids and give them "academic" scholarships knowing that they would like to play basketball too, creates an unlevel playing field for small schools that have to make do with what they have in terms of talent. The UHSSA needs to put them into their own classification. They can schedule any team they want on a non-league basis and play them. The original intent of high school athletics in the state has certainly changed-- do the best you can with who you have, up-down, good or bad , enjoy the ride and move on.

  • Ltrain St. George, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:32 a.m.

    3A doesn't want them!!!!!
    They already beat Morgan, at Morgan, by 30 points earlier in the year. Morgan is ranked #1. This is such a bogus situation. Everyone knows they're recruiting kids. I would take it 1 step further and all of the 2A tournament teams should just not take the floor for any games against them. That will force UHSAA to do something about this sham!!

  • coltenjohnson Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:35 a.m.

    If Wasatch Academy wants to play up a classification or two why not let them? Are 3a and 4a worried about having to play them? Is the UHSAA worried about the noise 3a or 4a would make if they had to deal with Wasatch Academy? JD and Judge Memorial both have football and try to compete in all sports, WA focuses on basketball and obviously finds/attracts/(whatever you want to call it) basketball players and basketball players only from all over the world. Not all over the country, or all over Utah, or all over the Wasatch Front, but all over the world. Sure they attract a few others for academics like they always have, but there's definitely a focus on attracting basketball players from around the world right now. Don't compare them to the Catholic schools, they're doing something a little bit different with basketball.

  • Shawnm750 West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:37 a.m.

    The problem with moving them up to a higher division would only balance the situation for the immediate future. Just because they are a private school doesn't necessarily mean that they'll consistently get good basketball players. In some ways, they have it harder than a public school. They can only give away so much in scholarship money towards basketball, and if there isn't significant draw to their school, then they'll end up hurting like all the other teams. It's the same issue colleges face. Meanwhile, when enrollment at public schools is higher, those teams benefit from a broader base of talent. True, a private school can be a little more focused if they have a specific need for their team, but history's shown that the most talented players have come from the most humble of backgrounds.

  • Me, Myself and I The Promised Land, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:38 a.m.

    @Rocketman
    You're point would be more valid had a 2A team besides one that has recruited in the past were the ones to "make a statement" about how another school shouldn't be able to recruit.

    @county mom
    Do you know the reason why the UHSAA went to the six classifications in football? Because a couple schools complained relentlessly that things weren't fair because they were the smallest schools in 3A. So now those schools got their way and we have 3A schools competing in 2A in all other sports which is ok now they're the biggest schools in the classification.

    The UHSAA needs to 1)Set enrollment and stick with it no matter who whines and complains, 2)No split classifications and 3)Make private schools either play in their own classification or enrollment +1.

  • The Short Bus St. Johns, NFL
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:41 a.m.

    It warms my heart to see Manti fans telling teams they should drop out. the biggest school in 2a isn't winning so lets get the good teams to drop out so they can have a chance. awesome love the great folks from good old Manti.

  • JD Books Sulphurdale, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:46 a.m.

    The story and probably outcome will be different if the Rams play Wasatch Academy in the state tournament. Wasatch was highly rated two years ago and got knocked off by Richfield in the state quarterfinals. Parsons is holding the cards close to his chest and will unleash SS small ball at the state tournament.

  • Floyd Johnson Broken Arrow, OK
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:48 a.m.

    Well if they have recruited players from both Illinois and Chicago we better do something.

  • Jsjohnson Layton, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:53 a.m.

    The biggest thing that this points out is Utah high schools need a shot clock.

  • coltenjohnson Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:56 a.m.

    Also, 4a and 5a haven't ever dealt with anything quite like this. They've dealt with a few kids moving from California or maybe around the Wasatch Front. Judge Memorial plays 3A football but is 4A in other sports, Kanab plays 1A football but is 2A in other sports, Delta and Manti play 3A football but are 2A in everything else. There should be now problem with letting Wasatch Academy play in a bigger classification, especially if they want to. It makes no sense not to let them, and the only reason there could possibly be for not letting them is that 3a, 4a, and 5a are worried about having them in their classification.

  • Central Utah Monroe, utah
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:56 a.m.

    Those who are crying sour grapes about South Sevier are quite oblivous to the real concern being addressed in this article and added other comments. My biggest concern is that the UHSAA will take years to solve this issue and allow time to slip away from the kids who are playing now. Their time is running out....as we can witness from the other comments that time has been stolen from far to many. Is there somewhere concerned parents and fans can contact the UHSAA....where they WILL get the MESSAGE!!! NOW!!! Let us know...so we can let our voices CAN be heard.

  • Jsjohnson Layton, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:59 a.m.

    Also, private schools should be able to apply to other classifications, if there is a penalty for being Independent. Wasatch Academy could apply to 3A, 4A or 5A.

  • small town bball fan manti, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 12:00 p.m.

    I agree Ltrain. Send Wasatch the trophy and hold a separate tournament.

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 12:04 p.m.

    @ Coolio - You are missing the whole argument by a mile! The kids that helped to win a state championship for South Sevier were from..(drum roll please)...Monroe! These were kids whose parents, grandparents, and many time great-grandparents live there and went to the same school. It is about community pride. It is about small town kids growing up, putting on their school uniform, and playing for the people they live with. Much different than a school like Wasatch Academy that has no identity. When those kids leave, they leave. There is no legacy, no community pride, no younger kids in the community to look up to older kids. That is what small town basketball is all about. And if you lived there, or went to school there, you would understand that.

  • Coolio SLC, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 12:12 p.m.

    @Rocketman1986

    I do understand the situation. Problem is there will never be an even playing field. In 1A you have schools of nearly 200 students competing against schools with 20. Ten times as large. You have different districts within the public system that place handicaps on their own athletic programs with travel restrictions, facility restrictions, etc. Private schools have a whole host of problems that public schools do not have. A recession can pretty much close them down over night. Many have had to close down just in the last 5 years. Most have meager facilities, very low athletic budgets, etc... how will Private schools compete with each other? Are you going to place Judge with a tiny 1A Private who has 30 students? The issue is complex. To WA's credit they have offered to go independent, but denied by the UHSAA.

    My issue with this particular story is how South Sevier handled it. It makes me sick that Parsons took an opportunity away from his kids. They quit. That is the ONLY "mockery" that has been made of 2A and small town basketball. WA competes where they are told. Right now it is 2A. They don't just quit.

  • a_voice_of_reason Woods Cross, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 12:16 p.m.

    Here I thought the statement was going to be about the need for a shot clock. I think they should have one. It doesn't have to be even a 35-second shot clock such as in college, but something to keep games reasonable. A 60-second shot clock should put no pressure on an offense that is doing anything other than trying to hold the ball. Just sayin...

  • sportfan65 Castle Dale, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 12:19 p.m.

    Why can't the private schools play themselves? If they don't want to belong to the public system, then why do we allow them to compete with public schools? One solution I heard, was to hand the "Championship Trophy" to Wasatch and then start the 2-A Tournement. There are four to five teams in 2-A that could battle fairly for the best hometown 2-A team.

  • Blue Collar Huntington, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 12:29 p.m.

    If a private school doesn't have to abide by the same rules as a public school, then why are private schools allowed to compete with the public schools? I don't have a problem with private schools but if the same rules don't apply then why are they competing in sports with public schools?

  • coltenjohnson Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 12:36 p.m.

    They've been around for 139 years. They aren't going to be shut down over night. The UHSAA makes alignment changes all the time. As long as they have Coach Morgan they're are going to be able to at least compete in 3a if not 4a and 5a. That's what they want. Let them do it, unless your scared they'll take state championships away from the bigger classifications too.

  • Mtn Tracker Ephraim, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 12:52 p.m.

    Coolio,
    You need to think things through a little. What you're arguing is exactly what we're saying. It doesn't matter the size of the school! If you have the advantage of bringing people in from anywhere without boundaries, then you have an unfair advantage. If WA had 20 kids they could still do what they are doing with a few hundred! Not one of those players are attending WA because of the education, location,or size of the school. You would know that if you have watched any of their games. A public school with 20 kids playing a public school with 199 kids is still more fair than playing a private school who brings players from Chicago and Europe to play for them. It's not a public schools fault that a recession causes problems for private schools. Private schools are in it for the Money! They will find any angle they can to get bigger like any business would. Athletics is a very good way to advertise.

  • Coolio SLC, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 12:52 p.m.

    @Central Utah - Time is running out on small town kids because of Wasatch Academy? Well, Parsons ran off 8 straight minutes down 17 points. His players, and especially his seniors won't get that time back. No fault of WA.

    @Bulldog26 - Did South Sevier really win all those games and titles with just "Monroe" kids? That's another discussion, but no they did not.

    Lastly, "Small Town" basketball will never be the same as it once was. You can try to hold on to the traditions, but inevitably things change. You can't assume that only a "small town" kid appreciates and respects and cherishes a state title. That's offensive, and ridiculous. Private school kids cherish them equally. Kids are kids. So few get the opportunity anyway public or private. HS sports is about teaching. When did we forget that? For Coach Parsons to "teach" that holding the ball for the final quarter and quitting, simply because he achieved "his" goal, not to lose by tons of points is the sad story here. He took precious time from both his own and WA's kids to compete against one another to send his "own" message. Sad.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Feb. 12, 2014 1:21 p.m.

    Here in Spokane Gonzaga prep has approximately 800 students and should play 2A. However, they choose and are allowed to play up; 4A. That makes a whole lot more sense. They are one of the better 4A schools in the state and won state in boys basketball 2 years ago. Private schools should play each other, or not at all. It's not fair to the public schools. Which team talks more smack, has the most arrogant players, coaches and parents here in Spokane? Gonzaga Prep, and it's not even close.

  • Me, Myself and I The Promised Land, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 1:54 p.m.

    @Spokane Ute

    Sounds like the only things Gonzaga Prep and Wasatch Academy have in common is they're both private schools. I can't speak for every game they've played, but the games I've seen WA play they have been very good sports, they play the game the right way and with the exception of one maybe two team members I've never seen, heard them or have opposing players mention any trash talk.

  • Central Utah Monroe, utah
    Feb. 12, 2014 2:16 p.m.

    @Coolio Yes the situation with WA is stealing time from the seniors, juniors, sophomores and freshman from ALL of 2A not just South Sevier. You criticize Parsons for making a statement!?....a statement that was heard by the whole state?! A meeting was called the next day just about the WA situation! So really was the lesson to quit, whine, complain or cry because it wasn't fair or was it a different message. A message to go against what you know is wrong. To fight your competive nature and teach your kids to stand up something even when they know they will face adversity!!!....I think the Kids, the community and even the state got the message. Now lets get the UHSAA to do something about it. Will they have the same courage Coach Parsons and the Boys had. I even think Coach Morgan showed some bravery trying to change the situation too.

  • Bearone Monroe, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 2:24 p.m.

    Coach Parsons did the only thing that would force the 'big wigs' at the state level to look closely at the situation. He did not break any rules-like someone said, there is no shot clock. He kept his team from being embarrassed, and you can bet that his team will play hard the rest of the season, having made their point to the state. I wish them the best as they go forward.

  • just-a-fan Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 2:25 p.m.

    I am amazed at the actions of this coach. There are private schools all over and those schools have advantages. Deal with it. Figure out a way to beat or at least compete with this giant. Be willing to stand up to this great program. We don't want to teach our athletes to give up. I am disgusted by this story. If I were a parent I would be furious. Time for a new coach who is willing to take on all challenges, not just the small ones.

  • LV Ute Fan Henderson, NV
    Feb. 12, 2014 2:32 p.m.

    Congratulations coach, you just taught your kids its ok to quit. If this coach has a problem with Wasatch and the UHSAA, then deal with it off the court. And by the way, who cares if you loose by 40? A lot can happen in a quarter. Play the game, and stop worrying about winning.

    Bad, bad, bad example!

  • Vernal Mom Vernal, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 2:41 p.m.

    Mr. Doug Robinson,

    Don't forget that 3A sports have the same problem and issues as 2A, 4A, & 5A with private schools. We have had to deal with playing Judge and Juan Diego (who both recruit) for many, many years. I don't agree with the stalling tactic of S.S., but at least it has us commenting and talking about the issue - which has been swept under the rug for too long!

    Come on UHSAA!! Quit ignoring this! Do it for the many student athletes who were not "recruited".

    Thanks, kanak.attack and others.

  • scrappy do DRAPER, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 2:45 p.m.

    Judge asked to move up to 4A in all sports except football to control costs

    if WA asked, really asked to move up a couple of classes, I have to think it would have been allowed, especially with the knowledge that it would be more competitive for the kids and knowing full well that their coach is trying to create a basketball prep school just like all the schools you hear about on bball recruiting day.

    I highly doubt they pushed for a higher classification

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 2:46 p.m.

    @ Coolio - Just curious...did you play, or attend a small town high school? By small town I mean 2A or smaller?

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 2:47 p.m.

    Let me say again, public schools can have international students as well by them paying tuition as in private schools . As for private schools in it for the money comment shows total lack of knowledge and motive. I know LCA was started and remains to allow God in the mix and I assure you there is a daily struggle with cash flow to keep that option open for those who want it.

  • JD Books Sulphurdale, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 2:50 p.m.

    The UHSAA has had committees study this and they have said that there is no way to even do an equitable "Private School" league. I wouldn't look for change anytime soon. The fact is that Parsons is probably one of the top 5 ooaches in the state and he needs to be supported to fight against this injustice. I wouldn't want to meet the rams in the state tourney.

  • WorkingShark Salina, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 3:05 p.m.

    @Coolio

    I guess I see it a little differently. Cudos to Coach Parsons for having the guts to stand up and do SOMETHING! It's about time someone did. Coincidentally the very next day principals met at the offices of the UHSAA to discuss the situation with Wasatch Academy. You bash on Parsons but perhaps he taught his kids something bigger, like taking a stand against something that isn't right even if it means some criticism. Wasatch Academy "toyed" with North Sevier most of the first half of their game. Their future D1 PG didn’t play until midway through the 2nd quarter. It was obvious that the WA players were just messing around. Geno gave them the signal near the end of the 2nd qtr and then they flipped the switch. Final score? 93-38, 53 points and WA pressed at least up until the last 2 minutes when I left. You say Parsons hurt his kids? Quite possibly he saved them some humiliation and embarrassment. His players can hold their heads up and have the satisfaction of knowing they did as they were asked and maybe they will have made a difference and UHSAA will finally be forced to do something.

  • ferret Logan, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 3:14 p.m.

    From a 1A perspective we were trying to point out the same issues as the 2A and South Sevier are now. We were told that we were "complaining" and we needed to "do a better job possibly coaching our programs". I was even at a meeting where the 2A representation had the attitude of "your program must not be good enough" when there was conversation about Wasatch Academy beating up on 1A. Well touche'. Maybe some of the 2A school should "invest more in their programs". Maybe they should stop complaining. Either way it doesn't matter. What matters is now you see what 1A was trying to point out. Hopefully 2A will get the same treatment as 1A did when this subject was brought up........lesson learned.

  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    Feb. 12, 2014 3:14 p.m.

    Create an independent status for non-public financed and not district constrained schools. Require that their conference schedule include 50% schools of their own size , 25% one size large and 25% two sizes larger, none playing down a bracket even for out of conference/pre-season. Waive that only the year after a losing season. Require all the larger classifications to accept scheduling of independents by percentage such that the schools would be assured competition and allow the games to count toward playoffs. Allow schools in their size classification the right to only schedule them once a season without penalty.

  • brolin24 Spokane, WA
    Feb. 12, 2014 3:35 p.m.

    As a graduate from Manti High School, and part of a football team that beat a private recruiting school for a state championship (Juan Diego 2003) the one thing we knew is that we would take on any competitor. I think a move like this questions the heart of the coach. You can beat a private school. What is the ultimate end game? They get a good education but can't play ball in their region? Step up and find a way to win.

  • Tigers Fan Spring City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 3:35 p.m.

    People in this state are sending a wrong message to the students and coaches of Wasatch when all they do is complain and ridicule them. What kind of example are you setting about our values and attitudes towards others? That is not what the predominate religion in this state teaches and I would hope at this year's state tournament you will all be a little more courteous and respectful of these students who work just as hard as all the other players. I think it's interesting that the only ones that seem to complain about the private schools are the 2A schools. They're not at any more of a disadvantage than the 3A schools but they do the most whining and complaining about how unfairly they are treated. At last year's championship game Gunnison High played the very best they could, worked hard and gave the Tigers a good run for their money. They didn't give up or whine and complain about how unfair the game was. They were a class act. Too bad the rest of you 2A schools can't follow their example. Go Tigers!!

  • David RI SLC, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 3:41 p.m.

    So we have a school (South Sevier) that is well known for recruiting other communities kids to play basketball. They are extremely successful by doing this, winning the majority of their games and state championships. Now, because another school(WA)recruits better than them, South Sevier is now refusing to play them for 4 quarters. Their reasoning for this is to get the UHSAA to remove them from the 2A classification? Is this really what I'm reading? Are we to assume that South Sevier has never enticed another communities ball player to come to their school? SS has brought this attention to themselves by doing this.

    And let's not forget that this story may go viral. Their is a racial element to this as well that nobody is talking about. Most of the country will be reading that an all white team in Utah is refusing to play an all black team because the black team recruits. The UHSAA refutes this allegation. Yet the same recruiting allegations are made against SS from nearby communities. So, recruiting a Utah kid is less illegal than say a kid from Chicago. This could look very bad in the national media.

  • Tigers Fan Spring City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 3:53 p.m.

    People in this state are sending a wrong message to the students and coaches of Wasatch when all they do is complain and ridicule them. What kind of example are you setting about our values and attitudes towards others? That is not what the predominate religion in this state teaches and I would hope at this year's state tournament you will all be a little more courteous and respectful of these students who work just as hard as all the other players. I think it's interesting that the only ones that seem to complain about the private schools are the 2A schools. They're not at any more of a disadvantage than the 3A schools but they do the most whining and complaining about how unfairly they are treated. At last year's championship game Gunnison High School played the very best they could, worked hard and gave the Tigers a good run for their money. They didn't give up or whine and complain about how unfair the game was. They were a class act. Too bad the rest of you 2A schools can't follow their example.

  • NH Transplant HEBER CITY, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 3:53 p.m.

    Wasatch Academy can be beat! Start the game with a stall if you get possession, if you don't get possession, stall till the last few seconds are on the clock and go for the tie or win with the last shot! Teams that are inferior in players sometime pull the huge upsets. 1980 USA Hockey team!

    There is some precedence of playing up a classification. For years Waterford played 3A soccer, even winning a state championship. The plus one idea for private schools is certainly an attractive option.

  • WA ALUM Seattle, Washington
    Feb. 12, 2014 4:14 p.m.

    To give some perspective from the other side:

    Wasatch's sports team have always been diverse, it's simply a reflection of the school's student body as a whole. When there was just one excellent player from a foreign country there were no allegations of being "brought in" to play. There were just as many international players when they were losing terrible in 1A. Also, look at WA's other athletic teams. This season, the baseball team gave up 146 runs in the season while only batting in 7. That is beyond terrible. There is no doubt that the basketball team is well above 2A caliber, but keep in mind other sports.

    I also see people concerned with WA dashing the dreams of small town kids in Utah. There are kids at WA who also come from similar communities. They too grew up wanting to play high school ball and win a championship. They may not be from Utah, but I'd bet if you had the opportunity to meet these young men you'd find you have more similarities than differences.

    Yes, the system is broken. Let's fix that. In the mean time, let the kids play.

  • Coolio SLC, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 4:17 p.m.

    @ Working Shark

    Did it ever occur to you to notice that South Sevier has been toying with North Sevier for several years. I just looked up some scores and see 30 and 40 point blow-out wins for South Sevier over North Sevier. What's the difference? As long as they were Utah kids it's okay? For South Sevier to complain about point differential is a "Mockery." South Sevier had a team that beat 5A Fremont by 15 points a few years back and have amassed over 230 wins in less than 10 years, many of those wins coming by 40 points or more over helpless 2A teams. And we are all to believe that all that success was with players strictly from Monroe? Laughable.

    @Central Utah

    Overcoming adversity is not attained through "Quitting." This nonsense that Parsons sparked a meeting about how to deal with WA is laughable. Meetings about what to do with Private schools have been going on for 20 years. But rest assured, because private schools have only won 6 boys basketball championships in both 1A and 2A combined over the last 100 years. That's astounding. Based on that stat it's the Private's who are at a disadvantage big time.

  • Reuben D. Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 5:00 p.m.

    That's the answer, punish the school for being successful. It states in the article that only 5 years ago Wasatch Academy couldn't win a basketball game. They somehow figure out the way to put a winner team together. It seems like the other teams need to work on getting better instead of punishing the team for winning. Better yet just stop keeping score and give everyone a trophy.

  • Daniel84020 Draper, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 5:14 p.m.

    If the average commenter here was in charge, the movie Hoosiers would've ended in a protest.

    So it's not fair. I get that. I grew up poor and watched as friends went to school on their parent's dime. These kids had lessons, cars, non-stop electricity, and parents who were around to help with homework, and somehow I was supposed to go out into the real world and compete with them.

    Seems to me the point of an education should not be to make sure everyone has a chance in the state tournament, but to build character and life skills--maybe the most important of which is how to confront obstacles and cope with failures.

    I have no problem with either of the coaches wanting the system changed. We all should try to make things better. But do it in a meeting with the grown ups, don't shut your kids down to make a point. Teach the kids to play until the final minute, because the world will reward those who do and not those who give up when it's not fair.

  • county mom Monroe, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 5:21 p.m.

    Coolio, please look into ALL the North Sevier VS South Sevier scores.

    North Sevier has had a hard time with basketball, mostly because a lot of the kids there are big strong hard working kids, tossing hay and working fields is hard work. They have had an amazing wrestling team for years.
    I believe it has been several years since South Sevier won the "Battle of the Ax"

    As for recruiting basketball players from North Sevier, there was only one boy last year and his mother actually lives here. Same thing with the 2 Wayne County boys several years ago. It is not like their parents drove them an hour or more over snow covered roads so they could attend South Sevier. They moved here too! We moved here too. My kids were not recruited but they wrestled and played ball.
    Like every other small school out in the middle of nowhere Utah, South Sevier has to teach those children that live here.If they move here they can play and believe me people don't just move here so their kid can play.
    People who can afford to do that don't move here.

  • Ironmomo Ogden, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 6:10 p.m.

    If you're waiting for the UHSSA to do something, don't hold your breath. They're quite inept at fixing anything.

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 7:50 p.m.

    The only immediate message Central Utah that might need to be passed is South Sevier's coach should be suspended and fined.

    I do think the enrollment + 1 is a good idea. Other states times private school enrollment by 1.5 and then reclassify from there. Each case would move them up a classification.

    But I think holding the ball and not competing is not the way to deal with this and teaches the long lesson to young men.

  • highschoolfan1 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 8:23 p.m.

    I said this many times, and I will say it again. WE NEED A SHOT CLOCK! When I went down to the San Diego Surf 'n Slam Tournament a couple of years ago, the team I was working with had a blast playing with a shot clock. Plus, it made the whole game more fun and exciting to watch. I wish coaches don't make their team hold the ball for the entire quarter. Fans want to see action, and yet Wasatch are letting fans down. UHSAA, please please please put in a Shot Clock so we don't have to see teams holding the ball for entire quarters.

  • SC Fan Saint George, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 8:41 p.m.

    Funny how all the comments about sour grapes and just play the best you can are from people in big schools up north. It's not fair and it will never be fair for too many reasons to list. Recruiting costs money and public schools don't have that money. Put the teams that have unlimited resources and can recruit in their own division and let them have at it. Maybe they can get in with the private schools in Vegas and really have a go at it. Coachs and fans have complained and complained and no one listens--so Coach Parson did something out of the box. It got some attention and that is what it is going to take. Maybe they need to really step it up and everyone refuse to play the private schools and take a loss, maybe that would finally get it done.

  • why play SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 8:43 p.m.

    Sounds to me like Parson was beat before he went into the game, not his team. Don't know about others, but, as a coach, even if I thought we were going to get killed, I would do my best to prepare my players to give it their all and try and compete.

    Football teams in Nevada face the same issue. Both of the state champions in their top 2 classifications are private schools (Bishop Gorman - top 5 team in the nation & Faith Lutheran). The funny thing is the little ol' football team in Mesquite (the Bulldogs) beat Faith Lutheran in the regular season even though FL has money and recruits. One thing is for sure, you don't win any of the games you quit!

    Now, what do the players from SS do should they make it to the next level? I believe in college they recruit and the better teams and schools with money get the best players. Hope they don't go into stall mode in college?

    The most important thing at the high school level is COACHING, period. It was out of line for Parsons to use boys to make his point.

  • 1-5aFan Heber City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 9:24 p.m.

    How did South Sevier get a away with playing with kids from Wayne County and North Sevier in the 3-peat blowing teams away by 30-40 points a game? Don't tell me they were not recruited to come play on the team? They just don't show up and live with grandma and grandpa for no reason?

  • 1-5aFan Heber City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 9:29 p.m.

    Don't get me wrong I think that there needs to be a private school division in the UHSAA, but South Sevier shouldn't be the one throwing such because they have been recruiting for years and blowing out team just like Wasatch Academy is now

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 9:57 p.m.

    @ Coolio - I still have not seen an answer as to whether you went to a small, rural school.

    Also, I witnessed a classic battle between long time rivals in the 2A classification. Can down to the final buzzer. The crowd was amazing from both communities; students, parents, grandparents, and friends. Exactly what small town basketball is all about.

  • cedarpost Washington, Utah
    Feb. 12, 2014 10:05 p.m.

    @johnson. Shot clocks dont make people play. They still could have held the ball till the shot clock expired and then not played defense.

  • John Jackson Sandy, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 10:12 p.m.

    Does the UHSAA have power to move Wasatch Academy up to 4A or 5A, and to do so in time for this year's state tournament? Move them up. Keep looking into whether there is any recruiting for athletics going on, but in the meantime, move them up. Innocent until proven guilty.

  • Kings Court Alpine, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 10:24 p.m.

    "Morgan denies that the school recruits athletes and, as he notes, they don’t have to recruit anyway because success perpetuates success, luring other top players to the school."

    Oh, please!

  • MHSForever Ephraim, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 10:57 p.m.

    Next time start the stall in the first quarter. Make them foul you. Hit your free throws. Win the game. :)

  • county mom Monroe, UT
    Feb. 12, 2014 11:05 p.m.

    To all those who have accused South Sevier of recruiting, please look at a map of Utah.

    Richfield is the only town close enough for someone to live in and drive to Monroe every day. Believe me there are far more kids driving to Richfield from Monroe to school, then from anywhere else to Monroe.
    You got to live here to go to school here.

  • Hayden_Johnson Orangeville, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 2:02 a.m.

    I think all that can be said on the subject has been said. Just want to establish two things. Clearly this is the UHSAA'S fault not Wasatch's and the other is that something needs to change. Also any team can beat any team once.

  • Bored to the point of THIS! Ogden, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 7:15 a.m.

    I grew up in Oklahoma...

    A few years ago, that State had the same issues.

    There was a small 'Christian' school in the OKC area that played 'small ball' because of their enrollment. However... they had three future NBA stars including Blake Griffen and his brother.

    They killed everyone!

  • Central Utah Monroe, utah
    Feb. 13, 2014 9:03 a.m.

    @Coolio Thanks! It is refreshing to see that nothing ever changes because attitudes in the UHSAA closely mirrors yours. It is OK to have different rules for different teams. For some reason I thought we were all asked to compete with the same rules and if your team is better then mine (following those SAME rules) then so be it(like the hoosiers story). But it is clear that I was mistaken. If one or a group of teams can recruit (for academic reasons), pay players to play and bring them in from any place (in the world) at anytime WHILE the other group has to follow rules like living in their community, being there for a certain period of time before they can play. Coaches, principals and schools being punished if they break these rules and they must obey other transfer rules...etc, etc, etc. I am sorry that I thought these differences were uneven or unfair rule differences. I was clearly wrong...thanks for the clarification!

  • coltenjohnson Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 9:08 a.m.

    -To the guy from the 2003 Manti team who talked about beating Juan Diego in the championship....I saw that game and we played Juan Diego the week before in the semi finals. They were a good team but they were beatable. WA is not Juan Diego. It could be argued Manti recruited a little themselves that year. You need to see WA for your self. This is recruiting on a whole different level than what Juan Diego or Judge was/is doing. Parsons is a good coach, he teaches his kids to win. They needed to get the state's attention and they did. It was a sacrifice and not an easy one to make. Something that needed to be done. Next time they play they'll compete. South Sevier has had success with South Sevier kids. Don't chalk South Seviers' success up to recruiting. Maybe a kid moved over from Koosharem or Salina one time, which are only about a half an hour away with tiny populations(not Atlanta or Chicago). Don't compare that to JD, JM, or WA. It's not even close to the same.

  • coltenjohnson Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 9:11 a.m.

    I can't wait to see 3a and 4a cry and whine and complain when WA finally gets up there. 3a and 4a think they've dealt with WA because they've dealt with JD and JM. Wasatch is recruiting on a whole new level. You can't compare the 3 schools. Wasatch Academy would already be in 3a and 4a if the UHSAA wasn't afraid of all the cry babyin they KNOW they'd hear from the city school if they let WA up. 3a and 4a don't want Wasatch Academy anymore than 1a and 2a do.

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 9:15 a.m.

    @ King's Court - You nailed it right on the head! I find it hard to say that success perpetuates success when during the period of 2004-2008 they won less than 15 games total. You go from that to dominating 1A then dominating 2A in a five year period? Hmmmm

  • Me, Myself and I The Promised Land, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 9:22 a.m.

    @coltenjohnson

    Recruiting is recruiting. It doesn't matter if its across the county, the neighboring county or across the country/internationally. It's still against the rules. Just because the kids S.Sevier recruited somehow managed to prove their hardship to the UHSAA doesn't change anything. Call a spade a spade.

  • coltenjohnson Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 9:25 a.m.

    It does matter

  • getedu Utah, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 9:32 a.m.

    A 2A team cannot beat WA! It is that out of balance. I've watched every team in 2A and they just do not come close to Wasatch. It's simply the truth and every team, every player, and every smart coach knows this. What Coach Parsons did wasn’t quitting, it was simply conceding. It happens all the time in sports. Its ok!

    Rural high schools are limited by geographical boundaries, for Wasatch Academy it's borders are limitless and don’t be confused they have worked very hard to fill their boys basketball roster with college bound, D-1 type players. What is confusing is the disparity between the quality of their boys basketball team and any of their other athletic programs. Their other teams don't win any region games. There is no balance!

    What every player, coach, and team wants is balance and fairness, you know, A CHANCE! And that is exactly what no team but one has this year in 2A boys basketball. It's simply the fact. It's not right, its not fair, and everybody involved knows it.

  • Pride Provo, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 9:44 a.m.

    I'm a little embarrassed by this. First of all, school is about getting an education, everything else comes second. WA gives individuals a great shot at a good education. If they can get more individuals to their school through athletics, kudos to them. Secondly, I went to school in Juab, and thanks to Juab's location we were placed with the northern schools region and always played a few private schools. Juab is definitely a rural school, but once the private schools came around we were taught to compete. We welcomed the opportunity to play against the recruiting private schools to see how good we really were. The gyms were ruckus, the games were competitive, but more importantly we competed. To be the best, you have to beat the best, and even better, if you aren't the best it's not the end of the world. To win a championship that means you have to be the best, I just can't see where the glory is in saying, "we won the championship over our neighbors after we forced the best team to not play anymore."

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 10:18 a.m.

    @Getedu You nailed it. My disappointment is the grouping of all private schools in this rage. I have the same concerns as the others about WA but the over reaction towards the other private schools who respect both the rules and the spirit of the rules takes the eye off the ball. In both 1a and 2a the only team besides WA that can even compete is LCA and they are so so.

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 10:31 a.m.

    By design, Private or Charter schools have to "recruit" kids to go to their schools. That is a fact. Whether it is for an education or to play athletics, they have to reach out to kids and parents to get the numbers and the money that they need. I see advertisements all the time for these schools. That, my friends, is recruiting!Any way you spin it, it is recruiting!

    Compare that to the public schools. They have a defined geographical boundary and they CAN NOT openly ask kids from other school boundaries to come to their school, especially for athletics. A kid from Panguitch can't drive over to Piute and play ball. It doesn't work like that.

    However, if you are a private institution, you can go anywhere (in state, out of state, out of country) to get kids. Call it education if you want, but it is still recruiting. No different than a college. It is about enrollment numbers and ultimately about money. (And in this case, recruiting athletes and winning basketball games!)

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 10:49 a.m.

    Public schools can get International students also ,they simply choose not to and that's ok. But stop making false arguments.

  • Proud to be American West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 10:51 a.m.

    I have an idea for you UHSAA. We are so tired of seeing these annual arguments about kids coming from here and there. Here are two suggestions for you:

    1. Play where you live. Athletics are a privilege, not a right. Yes the state legislature mandates that a student can choose where they want to go to school. Athletics are an outside privilege from the academic side, so "play where you live" would actually work. A student can go wherever they want to for academics, but there is no reason why you cannot implement athletic policies supporting "play where you live".

    2. Do not allow AAU coaches to coach high school basketball. And if they do, any player that played for them in AAU cannot play for them at the high school that they coach at. There are several other states that already have this policy adopted, why are you guys lagging behind?

    Put some actual thought into realignment. Don't do what is "easiest" for you guys, do what is "best" for kids.

    One last thought. Get a shot clock, it's long overdue!

  • nebocreek Nephi, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:04 a.m.

    Maybe the UHSSA should just remove all boundries and recruiting rules for high school athletics. That would "level" the playing field. Then we could enter into the discussion how "club" basketball teams would be best. I have no problem with WA having a great team and their players having a great "educational" experience along with playing basketball. My problem is with the application of the "rules" by the UHSSA in regards to the issue of being able to "recruit". Perhaps we should limit the number of non-resident players that can be on a team based on their normal classification - 1 player for 1A, 2 players for 2A , 3 players for 3A ....
    This discussion isn't about how many points WA beats other teams by-- its about maintaining the integrity and original intent of high school sports- play with what you have, when you have them, good or bad up or down.. Recruitment of players has no place in high school athletics.

  • Me, Myself and I The Promised Land, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:06 a.m.

    @Bulldog26

    Actually a kid from Panguitch can drive to Piute and go to school. He/she can also play any sport or participate in any school activity. It's called open enrollment and as long as that student starts at Piute and stays there, there is no problems according to the UHSAA. Now if they after lets say the freshman year decide to go back to Panguitch then they have to prove a hardship case in order to participate in extra-curricular activities, but not to attend school.

  • Me, Myself and I The Promised Land, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:20 a.m.

    @Proud to be American

    I agree with your post except for the not allowing students to play for their AAU coach. In rural communities that could eliminate an entire high school team from competing. Plus it's not needed if kids play were they live.

  • Me, Myself and I The Promised Land, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:21 a.m.

    Fair doesn't exist. Fair is a fairy tale. If everything was fair we would all have equal talent, we would all play the same quality of ball. Each time two teams faced off it would end in a tie and no one would win a championship of any kind because to be fair we would all have to win or all have to lose. Championships are rare, they're supposed to be hard to win if they weren't they wouldn't mean anything. I am in no way condoning how WA built their roster, but they're here and 2A has to play them at least for now. We don't have to like it, pretend it's ok or support it.

  • Me, Myself and I The Promised Land, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:21 a.m.

    What I have a problem with is so many willing to call WA on recruiting and turn a blind eye to others who have done it because it was done in a semi-local sphere and not a global one. That is hypocrisy no matter how you slice it. Like I said earlier any team can be beaten even WA as unlikely as it is, its not an impossibility unless you conceded defeat before the game starts.

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:27 a.m.

    @ Me, Myself, and I - Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was of the understanding that current UHSAA rules allow students the choice of enrolling in any high school of their choice regardless of where they live as long as the choice is personal, academic, hardship-related, or other unusual circumstances.

    The open enrollment policy specifically states students may NOT enroll outside the boundaries of which they reside if it is for extra-curricular or athletic participation. The enrollment of the student must then be approved and signed by the principals of both the current resident school and also the new receiving school.

  • Rural sport fan DUCHESNE, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:35 a.m.

    Me Myself and I:

    That is not what is happening here. If you look at the rosters at WA the past few years, it is easy to see that they are not bringing in freshmen, they are bringing in upper classmen as well, and there is no way a public school can do that, by rule, or by budget. They don't have the cash to advertise in foreign places, or recruit from foreign leagues.

    And here's the point everyone is ignoring...

    Even WA is admitting they should be playing up, or even outside the system; they asked to be permitted to do so. But the UHSAA is dragging their feet and hurting the kids at ALL 2A schools by not making it happen.

  • Rocketman1986 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:37 a.m.

    @Me, myself, and I - Curious...how many "rural" teams actually play competitive AAU basketball for a coach who is also their high school coach? Not asking to be ignorant, just curious how many there are.

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:40 a.m.

    @Me, myself, and I - I will ask you the same question that I posed to @ Coolio: Are you from, or did you attend, a rural high school?

  • CPrice Orem, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:44 a.m.

    Firstly, I went to South Sevier High School and South Sevier Middle School and Monroe Elementary! So those of you who are attacking or speaking harshly of my high school may not understand the pride and camaraderie that is apart of the basketball program. I have known Coach Parsons personally for many years and I grew up with him and his wife as teachers. They are both wonderful people and I know that whatever the reason he had for choosing to do this it was sound.

    Secondly, IRS Agent the Parsons' were thrilled to have their son go to SUU.

    Thirdly, 1-5aFan we never recruited from either Wayne or North Sevier High Schools. The students that came to our school came because of family reasons not to play sports (I know many of those students personally).

    Lastly 2A is a very competitive division, and teams that dominate as WA does with such ease do not belong there! They are not benefiting themselves or the teams they play. In this division sports affect the community not just the school, everyone gets involved in some way.

  • Rural sport fan DUCHESNE, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 12:03 p.m.

    Me, Myself and I

    "Fair doesn't exist. Fair is a fairy tale. If everything was fair we would all have equal talent, we would all play the same quality of ball. Each time two teams faced off it would end in a tie"

    You are confusing "fair" with "equal". Fair doesn't mean the results are equal, fair means the chances of any given result are equal. It means we play by the same rules.

    Things will never be totally fair, but the rules should be, and right now, they aren't, because the way private schools operate is different from the way public schools are allowed to do, under the rules.

    This is not about wrong or right in terms of what the schools are doing, it is about the competitive advantage gained when a school has the ability and even the mission of recruiting VERY high caliber athletes to come play for them, while other schools are literally prohibited from doing so by rule and by the fact that they use public money. And then requiring them to play each other, despite the fact that BOTH teams admit the fact that it isn't "fair".

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 12:30 p.m.

    @ Rural sports fan - You nailed it! Couldn't agree more.

  • Me, Myself and I The Promised Land, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 12:48 p.m.

    First off I think I'm being misunderstood. I am not in any way in favor or supporting WA and what they've done. There needs to be a change made to prevent this from happening again. I'm a all in type of person, to me a half truth is a whole lie, right is right and wrong is wrong. To me there is no difference between recruiting Utah kids or international kids. Obviously there is a big difference in the caliber of athlete being recruited by WA and those who were recruited by S. Sevier. All I was trying to do is get people to look at this subjectively.

  • Me, Myself and I The Promised Land, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 12:56 p.m.

    I am associated with a school who is directly impacted by WA so I'm not a city guy who doesn't understand the negative impact this has had on rural kids/schools. To answer Bulldog26, yes I did attend a rural school. I have great respect for Coach Parsons, he is a class act, but I don't agree 100% with how he handled the situation. I feel he set great goals for the game, but wining should have been one of them. One good thing he did do is he may have given his and other teams a recipe to knock of WA. The stall may be boring to watch but limiting WA's possessions is a really good idea and it may back fire if WA comes out and plays man to man and is able to force a lot of turnovers. Finally whats going on isn't right, but its the hand 2A has been dealt at least for now, hopefully things change but until then lets play ball and give our best effort to win every game.

  • Me, Myself and I The Promised Land, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 12:58 p.m.

    @Rocketman 1986

    I was speaking figuratively. I have only known one rural coach in my life who coached a summer league team that he took to AAU like tournaments, but it was AAU. I was just saying that if the UHSAA implemented a play were you live rule the other rule concerning AAU coaches wouldn't be needed.

  • small town bball fan manti, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 1:13 p.m.

    The thing I hate about Wasatch is they taint what would be a great state tournament. Without them I can count at least twelve teams who would have a shot at this years title ( So. Summit, Emery, Grand, Gunnision, Merit Academy, LCA, Enterprise, Parawon,Beaver, Manti, San Juan, So Sevier). All of them have hardly any chance against Wasatch. I would compare it to Weber St. beating Alabama in football. How fun or rewarding can it be for Wasatch player to beat every opponent by fourty.

  • Zerg11 Logan, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 1:19 p.m.

    Wasatch is a great school.

  • Me, Myself and I The Promised Land, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 1:48 p.m.

    Agreed smalltownbball but lets make some lemonade out of this sour situation. Go in playing to win instead of playing to not get blown out.

  • Rural sport fan DUCHESNE, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 2:08 p.m.

    MM&I: "I feel he set great goals for the game, but win(n)ing should have been one of them."

    You need to set realistic goals. Beating WA isn't, for most teams. You need to drop that argument, its pointless.

    MM&I: "One good thing he did do is he may have given his and other teams a recipe to knock of(f) WA."

    That's a good point, St Jo girls used it in 1A successfully a few years back.

    MM&I: "Finally whats going on isn't right, but its the hand 2A has been dealt at least for now, hopefully things change"

    We have been saying that for LITERALLY decades now in 1A, 20 years and nothing changes. And right now is all the seniors have, there IS no next year, no second chance. It's utterly ridiculous that the UHSAA hasn't fixed this yet, despite the multitude of chances they have had.

  • Zerg11 Logan, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 2:23 p.m.

    We want to play only at tournaments. So quit complaining and play ball

  • coltenjohnson Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 2:24 p.m.

    It wouldn't be right to take WA out of the state tourney this year. That's a terrible idea. But, I'd like to see them playing in 3a or 4a next year. If SS really has broken rules its wrong (I don't know if they have). SS had success other years where they haven't had questionable move ins though. I just haven't seen anyone dominate like WA, not JD, Judge, or anyone else. I haven't seen JD and JM attract the types of athletes in 1 sport the way WA does. I just think its naive to think that those athletes are coming to WA for academic reasons. I also think its naive to think they would have ever heard of WA without some sort of aggressive advertisement or recruiting. There are other places for those kids to go to get bball recognition that are closer to their homes. They had to be sold on WA somehow.

  • coltenjohnson Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 2:24 p.m.

    Rural public schools don't have the money to pay somebody to do that type of work in attracting athletes, and they wouldn't want to. They would rather let the students from there own communities compete. It's a community pride thing. I know holding the ball seems to contradict that, but I get that it was a sacrifice to try and get some attention. JD and JM are different than WA in that they focus on all sports, not just one. They just need to play up for there own benefit more than anything else. It's just upsetting that the UHSAA doesn't seem to be working on making it happen since they've made a ton of exceptions in the past for other schools. It does seem like small southern Utah schools get the shaft from the UHSAA sometimes, not sometimes, a lot of the time. It does seem like they're worried that 3a and 4a would make even more noise about WA than 2a does.

  • Bigstu FILLMORE, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 2:41 p.m.

    I do believe that Wasatch Academy is guilty of recruiting, but South Sevier is just as guilty. In the past few years they have had kids from Wayne County and Salina on their team. I think its a case of the pot calling the kettle black

  • David RI SLC, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 2:51 p.m.

    In all my years of life I have never seen such defeatist statements coming from these rural schools. Everybody keeps stating that it is impossible for WA to be beaten, and yet South Sevier was down only 10 points at half time? To quote Coach Parsons from the story.

    “I didn’t think they’d sit back in a zone and let the clock run out, which was fine with me,” says Parsons. “We’d met our goals as a team; I don’t see any sense in losing by 40 points, which is what they are winning by.”

    This from a coach who was only down 10 points at half time and only lost by 25 points the first time they played.

    Why would you think that WA would come out of their zone up 17 points? Why was your team goal not to compete for 32 minutes? Why was this fine by you?

    They are unbeatable? Not for these Utah schools the past 4 years. They had different team goals.

    Judge Memorial 46, Wasatch Academy 39
    Manti 61, Wasatch Academy 49
    Richfield 58, Wasatch Academy 41
    Bryce Valley 68, Wasatch Academy 66
    Liahona 58, Wasatch Academy 55

  • Me, Myself and I The Promised Land, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 3:01 p.m.

    I hope we're all friends when this is said and done. I think we all want the same thing and that is for fair competition. I'll concede my rant about "fair" I was playing Devil's Advocate a little there any ways. I dislike written communication, for this reason: a lot of times the emotion, sarcasm, delivery and many other things are lost in interpretation. Especially when we don't know each other personally or we aren't sitting face to face. I love rural high school sports and can't wait for some great games coming up this weekend and into the playoffs. Good luck to all the teams and I'm hoping that one of the David's takes out Goliath.

  • ttamprovo provo, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 3:26 p.m.

    Everyone just needs to stop complaining. WA is definitely going to win the state championship, especially when teams just give up and whine. That definitely sends a message, if I can't win, I'm going to pout and not play anymore.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Feb. 13, 2014 3:51 p.m.

    @MemyselfandI

    I have seen it first hand at both Freshman Basketball and Football games. My son got it first hand when I noticed him jawing with G Prep players. I asked him which team in the GSL talks the most smack? He told me it Gonzaga Prep and it's not even close. Go watch the way the coach and player act on the Freshman team and let me know what your think. Up by 30 points with 2 minutes to go, still pressing and putting the starters back in. Yep, lotta class there. My kids have played AAU and High school sports here in Spokane. I have heard the same thing from many other parents and players.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Feb. 13, 2014 3:58 p.m.

    @MemyselfandI

    Sorry for the confusion. I have no idea how WA presents itself, I'm only speaking from what I have witnessed here in Spokane.

    Take care and have a good day!

  • jc2005 Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 4:46 p.m.

    @ David RI

    -Why are you assuming everyone complaining is from a rural school?
    -Have you seen Wasatch Academy? It's a team made up of Manu, Dirk, Dikembe, Lebron, KD, Kobe, Michael, Bill Russel, Larry Bird, Magic and a few other guys. John Wooden is their coach.
    -You obviously haven't seen WA play this year to realize that they're a totally different team than they were 2, 3, or 4 years ago.
    -I'm complaining on WA's behalf. It is in their benefit to play in a higher classification.
    -When they play in a higher classification the city schools are going to get beat and complain as well, so don't go attacking rural schools. Most of the schools you listed as beating them the past for years were rural anyway. Ga

  • SS MiddleofNowhere, Utah
    Feb. 13, 2014 4:56 p.m.

    @ David RI,

    This year, in 2A, Wasatch Academy is unbeatable! The only score that matters and that illustrates this situation is an 86 to 56 WA win over Morgan. Morgan is ranked first in 3A and got destroyed by WA. So yes, they are unbeatable IN 2A.

    Also, to you, and to anyone else that questions Coach Parson's character or abilities as a coach, I played for him and he has done more for 2A basketball and for his players than any one I know.

  • Jesse124 Layton, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 8:34 p.m.

    All these bashing's on each others schools is pretty pathetic. WA and South Sevier are both good schools. They both played well against each other just a week or two ago. This game is in the past. Now it is time to look forward and move on with our lives. You aren't doing any favors by just sitting and writing about each others schools faults and strengths. Please, and I mean please forgive and forget.

  • Daniel84020 Draper, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 8:46 p.m.

    Does anyone else remember one of the greatest moments in sports history when the 1980 US Men's Hockey Team threw down their sticks and didn't play the 3rd period because it wasn't fair how much better the collection of Russian players were?

    Do you believe in quitting? YES!

  • RU Serious Washington, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 9:13 p.m.

    Coach Parsons is a class act. Why didn't Wasatch Academy's coach come out of the zone? Goes both ways. I know, I know, it isn't right to do if your up so far. Hey, WA hasn't had a problem with it in the past. Obviously there is an injustice that needs to get fixed.

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 13, 2014 11:09 p.m.

    @Daniel84020 - I would have to disagree. Quitting is walking off the court, which did not happen. Yes, South Sevier held the ball at mid-court. However, Wasatch made no effort to go out to defend them either. To me, they are equally guilty.

  • steck27 The Woodlands, TX
    Feb. 14, 2014 8:49 a.m.

    Texas has separate leagues for Private schools. The public schools are far superior !!!! Coach Morgan is the main difference accounting for WA's success. Looks to me like he is coaching defense thus leading to cheap baskets on offense.

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 14, 2014 9:15 a.m.

    What South Sevier did makes Utah look soft!!!!!!!!!! You would never catch a coach from Chicago pulling such a weak tactic!!! The message that sends to his players is what's wrong with this situation not Wasatch. While they were holding the whole fourth quarter his own players was saying how stupid and lame they felt, so if anyone is concerned about the kids it wouldn't be PARSON'S. If my son was in that program he wouldn't be after that sorry attempt of "were victims, help us we can't win!!!! Just pathetic.

  • Dcwatcher1 Btfl, UT
    Feb. 14, 2014 9:42 a.m.

    The problem is UHSAA is a branch or the government, has the government mentality and therefore can't possible think outside the box. If the education system was privatized they'd fix this situation. These people have grown up in the system and no longer have the ability of thinking for themselves. They look at the rules and that's it… Wasatch sounds like they want to be moved up, sounds like they could compete and even get more exposure for their kids but the UHSAA (in their lack of wisdom) can't figure it out so they hide. Have they lost all ability to recognize fair play… turn it over to a committee, no educators, because they cover each other, but let the tax payers, the ones paying Cluff, the coaches, the schools and they'll come up with a solid solution.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Feb. 14, 2014 10:06 a.m.

    Whether you lose by 1 or by 50 you still have lost. Holding the ball was incredebly bad sportsmanship.

    I'd move them up to 4A if it is that bad.

  • sargecut Kanab, UT
    Feb. 14, 2014 11:11 a.m.

    The real problem is Mr. Cuff. Try to get anything passed or your voice heard (much less acted on), if you are from a small southern school. The enrollment excuse is not a valid one, some teams play 1A football and 2A basketball? What a mess he's made of High school sports, certainly he remembers the excitement of a full round robin played at a local school! Now we have a "play-in" game,I if you make that now), stupid. Times have changed, yes. That does not give the State a reason to completely mess the system up. Sometimes what was done in the past is still good for the future. Your in charge Mr. Cuff, fix this whole statewide mess.

  • B-BALLER SLC, UT
    Feb. 14, 2014 12:44 p.m.

    Morgan may be ranked #1 right now, but there are 5-6 teams in 3A that can and have beat Morgan this year from 3A. Plus that game was the first of the year, where they lost 6 in a row. Anyone in beatable, but that is the point here.....

  • Rocketman1986 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 14, 2014 1:01 p.m.

    @ Sargecut - I agree! There is one group that can fix this and it is the UHSAA. It is time to listen to all the small schools and fix this situation.

    The region tourneys be this year would be amazing, especially with all of the great competition that is out there! The only hope is that there are enough people that are frustrated with the situation that they (UHSAA) make a decision and make it soon.

  • REALLY-WOW SLC, UT
    Feb. 14, 2014 1:59 p.m.

    The funny thing is that last year in 5A Lone peak dominated. In fact in the semis of the state championchips, Brighton held the ball for 11 minutes in the first half against them. No one complained about that. Recruiting?????

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 14, 2014 2:36 p.m.

    @ REALLY WOW - Interesting that you should bring up Lone Peak. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Eric Mika, who played his senior season at Lone Peak, also played at another private school in the 2A classification (Waterford) for his freshman and sophomore seasons. Had he stayed at Waterford they may very well have won a state title in 2A. Funny how this private school thing keeps resurfacing over and over and over.

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 14, 2014 8:32 p.m.

    Victory, Victory, Ra Ra Ra. Go Wasatch Academy Tigers to an awesome WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • moojuice usa, UT
    Feb. 14, 2014 10:35 p.m.

    I don't see the stall as "quitting". I see it as making a statement to an otherwise oblivious OR incompetent UHSAA. Private schools should either play by the SAME RULES as public schools or play in their own private school league. Why is that so difficult? (Even a consistent UHSAA would be a move in the right direction.) Letters haven't helped. Discussions with state representatives and the UHSAA haven't changed anything. Any suggestions on what would work?

  • David RI SLC, UT
    Feb. 15, 2014 1:26 a.m.

    I don't understand all of the anti-private school rhetoric. That they don't play by the same rules and have major advantages on recruiting. I just broke down the previous 5 years in 1A, 2A, 3A where all of the Private schools are and in Boys basketball out of the 15 championships won there were 12 by public schools and 3 by private schools. Considering private schools make up about 25% of the total schools 1A-3A they are actually winning only 20% of the titles.

    From the rhetoric I am reading I expected to find that the Private Schools were winning almost all of the titles, when in fact they are winning only 20%. Where is the advantage? You have to have facts to back up your claims of an unfair advantage and they are simply not there. If there truly was an advantage they would be winning a disproportionate amount of titles. They are not. The other sports are also all dominated by Public School champions. From my data, I would have to conclude that there must be some advantages to public schools that they do not care to admit. You can't win them ALL. These are the facts. Look them up.

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 15, 2014 9:16 a.m.

    The anti-private school rhetoric is about "these kids are coming in and stealing small town dreams of winning state" not the percentage. They're mad cuz we're winning. They're mad cuz we're here, to stay and win.

  • getedu Utah, UT
    Feb. 15, 2014 9:33 a.m.

    When you don't understand you don't understand, it's good to admit it. Research it appears, or proves, what everyone has been saying, that the unfair advantage that private schools have is roster loading on any given year; not necessarily every year. Load, and reload, internationally, when you want, if you want. Something public schools by law can't do. Private schools can; public schools can't. Oh, and comparing championships between privates and publics is out, there are far, far fewer privates. It doesn't work.

    Right now is what the discussion is about. It hurts kids, it hurts programs, coaches can lose jobs, its basketball--sure, but that makes it real life! The 2A classification is damaged.

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 15, 2014 10:14 a.m.

    Again public schools can get international students. There is no law against it. Please stop making up the facts

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 15, 2014 10:36 a.m.

    getedu, but I do agree with you on WA

  • earthquakejake Logan, UT
    Feb. 15, 2014 1:52 p.m.

    Just put them in 5A. This shouldn't be so complicated.

  • moojuice usa, UT
    Feb. 15, 2014 8:01 p.m.

    Nope. Public schools can't get international students like private schools. The visa system is complicated and visas are just not available. International students come sometimes to these small town public schools as exchange students, but not to play sport. And they are certainly not recruited. Plus, their visa is only good for one year.

  • Garden City GARDEN CITY, UT
    Feb. 15, 2014 9:41 p.m.

    IRS Agent: your comments are coming from no experience with this issue. Sour grapes? I have had three sons and many close friends watching them having to go thru this rediculous experience. Why have different classifications in trying to level the playing field when my boy from a school that has 150 kids freshman to senior go up against a team that recruits from the likes of Canada's Junior olympic team and from all over the world. They don't even know what a classification is and barely know they are in Utah. I have had 3 kids play against them and watch their team not even pay honor to the American flag that is giving them an education at the state championship game and they come out and play like its just another independent game in some tournament they play in around the nation. Rich High
    can't even afford to play in an extra game in Richfield while these guys play all over the nation so they can showcase what the athletes can expect when they come and play for this Junior college style situation. Love This move by South Sevier. They mock the UHSAA every time they play.

  • moojuice usa, UT
    Feb. 15, 2014 9:42 p.m.

    No 2afan. Not every public school can get international students. I know of public schools who bring in international exchange students, but not to play sports. It is extremely difficult to qualify for a visa without the exchange program. The private schools should be able to build their programs and compete nationally (as WA has done). And it would be fun to be able to play them in preseason games. I just don't think they should be vying for the same state title as schools who don't recruit and offer money to play.

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 15, 2014 11:27 p.m.

    Go Wasatch!!!!!!

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 16, 2014 7:48 a.m.

    @2afan - if it is possible, please explain how a small, rural school is able to get an international student to attend their school. I am curious. Not talking about an exchange student either.

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 16, 2014 8:47 a.m.

    Public schools back east have been doing this for the last 5 years due to desperate need for money it just requires some effort. Please know my unity with you on WA. They have done what I know other private schools have refused to do.

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 16, 2014 9:30 a.m.

    What makes you think any private school besides WA wants to build a bb program nationally? The lack of understanding of private schools ,their purpose and their motives on these posts are disheartening. Contrary to the situation painted in these comments, I only know one that fits. Guess who?

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 16, 2014 11:31 a.m.

    WIN. go Wasatch go!!!!!!!!!

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 16, 2014 6:49 p.m.

    I do not have any issues with private schools in general. They offer tremendous opportunities to kids in the way of education and helping them in their lives. In that way, they provide a very important role. My issues comes when private school use their ability to recruit kids for athletics. Even then, I don't have a problem with it, EXCEPT that public schools can't do the same thing. It gives them a huge unequal (don't want to use the word unfair) advantage. If they want to do that, let them go and play against someone else. Competing against a small, rural school, who already has very limited resources, just doesn't make sense.

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 16, 2014 10:07 p.m.

    I understand but public has many advantages as well such as enrollment ,money ,familiarity ,buildings etc. Both have different advantages and disadvantages. In truth there are differences. Even in public there are poorer schools verses richer where their parents send them to camps for the privileged improving their skills. Do we divide public into rich and poor schools so one doesn't have such an advantage over the other? I do take great exception to what has been deliberately done at WA but the over-reach of separation is not needed nor going to happen.

  • ImNotLeftHanded West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 16, 2014 11:28 p.m.

    While UHSAA considers inequality...

    Seems relative size in your classification is a MUCH greater team state championship predictor than being private.

    Consider Manti, Richfield, NSanpete, Gunnison, and WA. In 15 years since the 99-00 season, team state championships:

    Richfield: 25, 1 in 5 3A years, at least 1 in 9/10 2A years, including 4 in 02-03 and 08-09.

    Manti: 21, 0 in 2 3A years, at least 1 in 12/13 2A years, including 4 in 11-12

    NSanpete: 2, both Volleyball, 15 years 3A

    Gunnison: 3, all baseball, 15 years 2A

    WA: 2, both in boys basketball, 1 in 12 1A years, 1 in 2 2A years

    Manti/Richfield were typically the largest 2A schools. Gunnison and WA are small 2A schools. NSanpete is a small 3A school, typically within 100 students of Manti/Richfield. How is it fair that NSanpete was stuck in 3A while Manti/Richfield were cleaning up in 2A?

    SSevier won 14 championships in 15 2A years. That’s not as good as Manti/Richfield, but decent for “small town kids” boosting “community pride.” How do NSanpete, Gunnison, and WA students/community feel with only 2 or 3 championships in the same time period?

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 9:49 a.m.

    @ 2afan - So your argument is that it is ok for private schools to be able to recruit, while public schools can't? And that is equitable?

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 10:28 a.m.

    I do not agree with private schools recruiting for athletic purposes. But I know only one that has. The lines grouping all private schools into one analysis is my problem. Any objective person can tell the difference.

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 10:37 a.m.

    By the way , you don't think the other private schools are feeling the same angst as the public over this situation ?

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 10:49 a.m.

    Further, do you present we go after and punish the entire family of a criminal because they come from the same group? That's my point. Your solutions are emotional not rational. But I do understand how this situation has pushed people over the edge. I am on your side but limited to one school not the entire group of private schools.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 11:15 a.m.

    Wasatch Academy isn't reaching their potential in 2A. In a way, they are cheating their athletes who are superior to 2A competition.

    It's on Wasatch Academy to ask for a classification change.

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 17, 2014 11:26 a.m.

    Hate all u want. Go Wasatch go.

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 17, 2014 11:33 a.m.

    Can't be to soon to get out of this cry baby, complaining, whining, losing 2A division. NATIONAL

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 12:01 p.m.

    @ A Real Ball Player - Thanks for keeping it classy!

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 1:06 p.m.

    @ 2afan - I would agree that some of my comments are emotional, but I think that is to be expected given the situation. Growing up in a small, rural community high school athletics are what young boys and girls dream about. They live to put on their uniform with their town or school's name and compete in front of their family and community every night. That, my friend, is life in the small town. When you feel like someone comes in and steals some of that recognition, it hurts. It is emotional, because to them it is a huge part of their life. And when they feel (right, wrong, or indifferent) that someone has an unequal advantage, it hurts even more. I hope that explains a little why for all the small rural towns it is a big deal. And while I can't speak for everyone of them, I am sure that they share many of these same feelings.

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 17, 2014 1:15 p.m.

    Class went out the door days ago. The real is all I'm interested in.

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 17, 2014 1:32 p.m.

    Big city small town, SO. All these kids want the same thing. We work hard and the outcome is winning.

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 1:39 p.m.

    @Bulldog26-I hear your heart.

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 17, 2014 1:53 p.m.

    As a matter of FACT. There has been nothing classy about these comments from the beginning. Now you want to bring up class. What does class have to do with what's going on, protesting a school that has nothing to do with what division they play in, they just play well. You don't hear them protesting that they have no real comp. That they're game is suffering playing schools that don't, cant compete with some real heart.

  • ImNotLeftHanded West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 4:05 p.m.

    Wasatch Academy *DID* petition UHSAA to move boys basketball to a higher class after last season. UHSAA *DENIED* the petition. UHSAA requires all teams move when changing class (except 2A teams playing 3A football). Moving all WA's teams to 3A or 4A when they aren't competitive at the 2A level is ridiculous. WA boys basketball didn't simply "reload" this year as some have implied. All 5 starters are returning players from last year, including two who are in their 3rd year at WA and three 2nd years, one is a Sophomore. Any team in any classification that returned 5 of their top 8 players, including the state and tournament MVPs would expect an excellent season. Instead of congratulating WA for outstanding kids/coaches, people in this forum are very accusatory and negative. That is really disappointing for the state of Utah. Take the complaints to UHSAA where they belong. Don't blame/accuse/criticize WA who haven't broken any rules and are playing exactly where UHSAA told them to play.

    @Bulldog26-Manti and Richfield won 45 2A team state championships over the last 15 years to WA's 1. I don't think WA has stolen anything from Gunnison.

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 4:17 p.m.

    @ARealBallPlayer - The crux of the argument has always been that there is an unequal playing field in 1A and 2A with private schools, specifically toward recruiting. Wasatch has an amazing team and has been very successful. I have absolutely NO problems with that. In fact, I am very happy for them. My concern comes in where private schools are able to bring in, or recruit kids, to come to their schools. Public schools are not able to do that, and as a result do not have the same equal advantage as the private schools. It doesn't have to be fair, because teams will always rise and fall over the years. All I ask for is an equal playing field.

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 4:32 p.m.

    @ImNotLeftHanded - I understand that this is a UHSAA issue. And I also agree that they are the ones that have to do something to fix this.

    As far as taking something from Gunnison, it was just a state championship that was at stake last year. No big deal, right?

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 17, 2014 4:36 p.m.

    Thanks. Finally someone with something real to contribute to this forum. And I am left handed. Lol. Thanks. Can't say it enough. Thanks!!!!!!!!! Go Wasatch!!!!!!

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 17, 2014 4:45 p.m.

    @bulldog26, Yea right.

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 4:58 p.m.

    @ARealballplayer- your comments aren't helping WA. This school will still be in Utah after you have done your thing and left. They have thrown away their support and relationships with other private schools over this.

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 17, 2014 5:46 p.m.

    @2afan, and what type of relationship would they need with other private schools? They stood alone when they were losing and they'll stand alone winning!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 17, 2014 5:57 p.m.

    Wasatch doesn't need my help, They're doing just GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • ImNotLeftHanded West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 6:03 p.m.

    @Bulldog26 - you are assuming Gunnison would have beaten South Sevier, and that is a very big assumption.

    I will re-state my original premise: Being the largest school in a classification is a more significant advantage for winning state championships than being a private school. I hope the UHSAA does allow WA basketball to move up to 4A or 5A. I think WA would welcome it as long as the other WA teams don't also have to move. But, if your primary argument is with the "unequal playing field," then equalizing the large schools that monopolize state championships should be a higher priority than targeting the private schools.

    Perhaps a more flexible classification system is in order for all schools, public and private.

  • athleticsfan Layton, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 8:00 p.m.

    @bulldog26 I'm just curious. Are you certain that public schools cannot get international kids to come to their school? Where does your information come from that you can be so certain. I would urge you to research your claim. My understanding, international students may stay at a public school for multiple years IF that student pays a tuition to the public school.

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 8:34 p.m.

    @ ImNotLeftHanded - A Gunnison -vs- South Sevier match-up would have been great but we will never know how it would have ended up. Either way, it would have been a great game. Let's not forget that the Gunnison -vs- Emery game was the game of the tourney! That shot that Caldwell hit at the buzzer will remain in Gunnison basketball lore for a long time. Also, lfor the record, Gunnison played Wasatch closer than any other 2A school last year in the title game. I think it goes without saying that the South Sevier game against them in the semis was one of the most over hyped games in 2A, a real sleeper.(Actually it was really boring!)

    As for the the large school argument, well, that is for another day. For now I will stick to this discussion. My assumption is that over the next couple of weeks, there will be many more discussions on this topic.

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 17, 2014 8:57 p.m.

    @athleticsfan - Honestly, I am not 100% sure, but other than as a part of an exchange program, I am not sure why they would want to. (Nothing negative insinuated there, just not sure why they would want to.) My argument is that pubic schools would not be recruiting foreign students, because they can't. Whereas private schools very well may be doing that. Again, this is strictly related to athletics and has nothing to do with academics.

    I will have to get and check it out to be certain for sure on the specific rules that govern such activities. I will post as I find out the details.

  • moojuice usa, UT
    Feb. 18, 2014 11:39 a.m.

    Congratulations WA on creating a team of outstanding national/international players to entertain us as they prepare for their D1 experience. They are awesome! And how exciting that you compete well nationally with other teams like yours. You have been allowed to create this team by a UHSAA that often penalizes PUBLIC schools (especially those with strong programs) if a player transfers from one school to another. So the rub is that WA (and perhaps others) somehow, all of a sudden, has this team of international and national superstar players. How do these players even know about a tiny school in central Utah? And all at the same time? What a coincidence! At most small high schools, the athletes will wrestle or play basketball in the state tournament Saturday and then tryout the following Monday for soccer, baseball, tennis or track/field (that's probably the day most WA players are packing up to head back home). That's a different player than the one being brought in to prepare for their D1 experience. This is a situation created by and then ignored by the UHSAA. Just enforce the rules that are already in place!

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 18, 2014 4:44 p.m.

    Go Wasatch

  • Bulldog26 Gunnison, UT
    Feb. 19, 2014 1:28 p.m.

    @moojuice - Excellent! I would like to have the answers to your questions as well. Very well written!

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 19, 2014 2:55 p.m.

    Wrestling? Soccer? Baseball? Tennis? Track and Field? That's your problem. Real basketball players play basketball, whether its in season or not. When we go home we go home and play MORE basketball. Basketball is they're love. Not something to do because its basketball season. And that's what separate the great doing this and those who just do it.

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 19, 2014 3:04 p.m.

    Concerns and questions should only reflect how can your programs compete. Everything else is irrelevant.

  • ImNotLeftHanded West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 19, 2014 6:58 p.m.

    By the way, WA's success this year and over the last few years is not due to recruiting kids in my opinion. The major difference and the turning point was when WA hired Geno Morgan. He took a losing team from 08-09 and turned it around. Outstanding coaches do that. He's a two-time winner of Utah's Best of State High School Coach, for all coaches, in all sports, across all schools public and private. Of course, this year WA also returned 8 of their top 12 players from last year. Any team with an outstanding coach returning that many players is going to have a great year. Ask Lone Peak 2012-13.

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 19, 2014 8:54 p.m.

    Who do you think your kidding. Without the talent he brought in WA would still be losing.

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 19, 2014 10:33 p.m.

    Coach Morgan didn't bring in talent, he creates talented players!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • ImNotLeftHanded West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 20, 2014 9:07 a.m.

    @2afan - By nature of how private schools exist, every student at every private school is recruited. WA has been doing that for 100+ years. Even with that recruiting, WA wasn't winning any state championships. The way WA gets students hasn't changed, but the coach did, and that's when the winning started. That's my point. Of course there are good athletes that now want to come to WA, and they get there and the coach makes something even more of them. I would bet there hasn't been a single player who already had their D1 offer in hand that came to WA, a remote 2A school in Utah, simply to add a Utah 2A state championship to their resume. They come because Geno Morgan is an outstanding coach that pushes them to become better, and WA is an outstanding academic school that will also push them on the academic side. They come here to be better people, which I'd hope the people of Utah could respect. It would be nice if these student athletes left Utah knowing what a class act our state is.

  • 2afan Layton, UT
    Feb. 20, 2014 9:31 a.m.

    I know all about private schools and how students are recruited and that team wasn't the luck of the draw. Any private school could put an equal team on the floor if their goal was to build a power-house team on their way to national scheduling . The kids at WA are great kids and I personally like the coach, but I know exactly what they have done and while it is within the letter of the rule it is way outside the spirit of the rule. This has been an executed plan at the expense of all the 2a teams.

  • moojuice usa, UT
    Feb. 20, 2014 10:02 a.m.

    @ARealBallPlayer: I don't know that we have fake basketball players at public schools. They look pretty real to me. They do play basketball year round. Sometimes for fun, sometimes for competition just because they love the game. They also play and enjoy other sports. You seem pretty defensive, so I just want to make sure you understand that the angst expressed is toward the UHSAA, not Wasatch Academy. I think your team is awesome and I hope the players have continued success. But I believe that even Wasatch Academy would like to move out of 2A? I'm sure the national tournaments are more fun for the team than these boring old state games. But these state games mean a lot to these 2A players. (I'm sure South Summit would love a state championship in basketball to go along with their championship in football.)

  • moojuice usa, UT
    Feb. 20, 2014 11:37 a.m.

    I have another question. Maybe somebody out there can answer it. Did Wasatch Academy request a move to another classification? If so, WHY didn't the UHSAA allow the move? That seems like such a simple fix. Seriously. We don't need to form a committee and discuss it for two years. Moving "up" shouldn't be an issue.

  • Tiger Fan Orem, UT
    Feb. 20, 2014 4:29 p.m.

    This has got to be said... Geno IS an outstanding coach and I have respect for him and his players. I also believe that these players came from the many corners of the world BECAUSE of him and his coaching ability. It has already been stated that "success breeds success" and great players LIVE to be a part of a successful program with a great coach. The facts are in black and white... Geno DID NOT "make" these players into the players they are. Most came to him with massive basketball histories and experience. Do your own research on the others, but here is a little info on just one of their amazing players, Luzcando, Nice kid! (note the spelling difference/dropping of last name at WA).. Eugenio Luscando Bocaz - member of the FIBA Chile 16U team. What is FIBA? The abbreviation 'FIBA' derives from the French 'Fédération Internationale de Basketball Amateur'. The Word 'Amateur' was dropped in 1986 after the distinction between Amateurs and Professionals was eliminated. What kind of a team is this? Jabari Parker played on the FIBA Americas team and played against him in an American tourney if that gives you any indication.

  • ARealBallPlayer Chicago, IL
    Feb. 20, 2014 5:52 p.m.

    @Moojuice, I understand your point. I hope I never used that term FAKE, because NON of these kids are fake. Public/Private. They're ball players in my eyes.

  • moojuice usa, UT
    Feb. 21, 2014 8:59 a.m.

    So did Luzcando play summer ball around the Orem area a few years back? Is he the one that wanted to play at a public school in the Orem area, but was denied, only to land at Wasatch Academy? He is a great player.

  • davej MONROE, UT
    Feb. 24, 2014 2:59 p.m.

    I am from South Sevier and have been watching Basket Ball for a long time every one blames coach Parsons for the stall tactic that he used. I am late to this conversation and understand his coaching tactics is is called a four corner stall it was not meant to stall a whole Quarter it is meant to suck them out of there Zone and allow cuts for lay ups W/A could have also came out and matched up man to man and the game would have then went on Geno could have let his kids play also. If South Sevier sees them in the play offs I hope Parsons dose the same thing till Geno comes out of his Zone. it will be a low scoreing game but it will be a lot closer So man up Geno and make them play.