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Conservative? Liberal? Gallup ranks the states

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  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Feb. 5, 2014 5:52 a.m.

    "the conservative advantage is still appears predominant."

    I can buy that. I consider myself a fiscal conservative (social moderate). I used to vote consistently R. But the GOP doesn't want me.

    I am not religious. I don't see how gay marriage affects me. I don't think that the GOP is fiscally conservative. Some regulation is good. We need to raise taxes and cut spending until we balance our budget.

    No, the GOP does not want me at all.

    And the GOP has become embarrassing. The birthers, some of their plain ignorant stances concerning abortion, the rejection of science.
    The political emails with no basis in fact that get spread around constantly and accepted at face value.

    I take issue with many of the Democrats stances. But, I do not find them generally embarrassing. The GOP seems to revel in it.

  • Philosopher Goose Creek, SC
    Feb. 5, 2014 6:46 a.m.

    What do the words 'conservative' and 'liberal' mean anymore? Aside from money, what do Republicans conserve? Aside from constitutional and moral values, what are Democrats 'liberating'?

  • LoBo4Justice Coalville, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 6:57 a.m.

    This is absurd. After the gerrymandering that goes on every ten years by the two major parties, is it any surprise that this is a result? Using 'conservative' and 'liberal' to divide the electorate and stop us from uniting around our common issues benefits only the corporatists in power who could care less about party affiliation and ideology. The people who have most benefited from the policies created by both conservatives and liberals in the last 40 years have been the one percent. It has been my experience that we all have some measure of conservative and liberal within us. When we will come together and elect candidates who represent us, not the corporations?

  • FatherOfFour WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 6:59 a.m.

    I would love to see an education and economic overlay to this same map. For instance, compare education in Vermont to Mississippi, or education in Massachusetts to Idaho. At the same time compare economic overlay as well. How does the economy in Alabama compare to the economy in New Jersey or Oregon? What percentage of high school seniors move on to upper level colleges in Maine versus those graduating in Oklahoma? From en economic standpoint (real estate value, average wage, number of people requiring government assistance just to pay the bills) how does Mississippi compare to Vermont? I just think these types of overlays would be interesting to see.

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    Feb. 5, 2014 8:19 a.m.

    @ Fatheroffour. I live in Idaho and am very proud of my state. Its a wonderful place to live, work and raise a family. Very low crime, good schools, clean air, beautiful mountains, lakes and forests. Idaho is full of wonderful, hard working, patriotic conservative people. And Idaho's state government is in the black fiscally. In fact, no one could pay me enough to live in a liberal state!

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Feb. 5, 2014 8:34 a.m.

    Or we could compare the states with the highest crime rates or the highest number of welfare recipients per capita, or the states that have the highest debts? California leads the nation in every one of those categories followed closely by other liberal states. No thanks, I will gladly live out my life in good old conservative Idaho where life is good.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 8:38 a.m.

    Utah is closet liberal, leading the charge to make same sex marriage legal nation wide.

  • dmcvey Los Angeles, CA
    Feb. 5, 2014 9:00 a.m.

    Mountanman, what is your source for your statement? According to the cencus the states with the highest (violent) crime rates are Tennessee, Nevada and Alaska--all conservative states. You might want to check facts before you post things like this.

    By the way, the crime rates in liberal states like California and New York are dropping.

  • Sal Provo, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 9:07 a.m.

    @Hutterite:
    What you meant to say was one person, Judge Shelby, is a closet liberal leading the charge to make same sex marriage legal nation wide. Utah is firmly against changing the definition of traditional marriage.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Feb. 5, 2014 9:15 a.m.

    @JoeBlow – “I consider myself a fiscal conservative (social moderate). I used to vote consistently R. But the GOP doesn't want me.”

    My sentiments exactly Joe (or is it Mr. Blow?)!!

    By historical standards (and not today’s Tea Party) I’m center-right largely for economic/business reasons, but admit I don’t relate at all to most of what falls under the label of “social conservative.”

    But this current GOP has gone off the rails as evidenced by the fact that they won’t own any of their real positions – “we didn’t shut down the government” when they strategized for months to do exactly that, or “we want to balance the budget” when everyone know what they really want is to shrink government down to a size where it can be drowned in a bathtub (the 90’s Reps wanted to balance the budget and they did, through cut AND taxes)

    Also, it’s telling the amount of pushback we “RINOs” get on this forum from the Tea Party folks (i.e., the purity police). They may never win a national election again, but at least they’ll have the pride of “knowing” they’re right.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 9:24 a.m.

    @Mountanman
    " with the highest crime rates or the highest number of welfare recipients per capita, or the states that have the highest debts? California leads the nation in every one of those categories"

    I think we should see the maps of this because your first two conclusions are incorrect. Are you sure you were looking at rates or totals, because California has the largest population so it might have the highest totals while not having the highest rates?

    Louisiana has the highest murder rate (behind DC), Tennessee has the highest violent crime rate (behind DC).

    Mississippi is the poorest state in the nation as well as the highest percentage of people not paying federal income taxes (Romney won 8 out of the top 10 in this category, Obama won New Mexico and Florida) so they would take the highest rate of welfare recipients.

    I'll give you the debt one.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Feb. 5, 2014 9:23 a.m.

    @dmcvey. Google each category for sources. Its very interesting as you will see. Crime is dropping in every state, not just liberal ones. Its just that we have so little crime here that its hard to measure.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Feb. 5, 2014 9:30 a.m.

    California has the highest number of welfare recipients by far: 1,085,627. The next highest recipient state is New York, with 341,004 people on welfare. According to homework helper.

  • Bob A. Bohey Marlborough, MA
    Feb. 5, 2014 9:35 a.m.

    If one chooses a liberal or conservative lens as the reference point from which all issues and arguments are viewed then one should not expect to be able to clearly evaluate said arguments and issues.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 9:38 a.m.

    the liberal states are bankrupt and dying including Michigan, California, New York etc.. The more conservative states with GOP governors are doing quite well economically including Texas, Utah, etc... Bottom line - liberalism destroys and conservatism builds and grows....but we already knew that.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 9:55 a.m.

    I have found myself in the same position as Joe Blow and Tyler D. I used to be a Republican and am probably center right on most things (i.e. I'm an old fashioned Republican), but there is no way I identify any more with the anti-science, victim playing, get something for nothing (i.e. get a bunch of government benefits without paying any taxes) party the Republicans have become. Fact is, we need SOME government regulation. We need to pay sufficient taxes to operate the government we actually want (not the tiny government we say we want until small government affects us personally). There are members of our society who actually do need help, and it is more efficient for us to collectively help them with things like health care instead of hoping that some doctors and hospitals will provide care for free. Or hoping that their neighbors can come up with a few hundred thou to pay for their medical care. The answers aren't easy, and the simplistic tea party ideas are set ups for a failed society.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    Feb. 5, 2014 10:20 a.m.

    @Hutterite:
    "Utah is closet liberal." Absolutely, leading the charge to promote traditional marriage as a powerful tool to fight poverty. Oregan and New Mexico are closet conservatives retreating on human rights.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Feb. 5, 2014 10:27 a.m.

    @patriot – “liberalism destroys and conservatism builds and grows....”

    Continuing in this spirit of myopic observations and facile conclusions, by any measure of quality of life would you rather raise your kids in Vermont or Mississippi?

    @Wonder – “I have found myself in the same position as Joe Blow and Tyler D.”

    I suspect there are many more like us than not (perhaps a majority), but unfortunately our politics - driven by “news” as a profit center - have been hijacked by the extremes.

    If we can ever fix our gerrymandering problem and if/when people get tired of having others think for them (by strategically pushing all their emotional buttons – fear on FOX and empathy on MSNBC), we may start letting then grownups take charge again.

    But for now, as the saying goes, we’re getting the government we deserve… sadly.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 10:28 a.m.

    Philosopher

    Re: "what do Republicans conserve? Aside from constitutional and moral values, what are Democrats 'liberating'"...

    First of all, Republicans are not necessarily "Conservatives". And Democrats are not necessarily "Liberals". Assuming that just illustrates a shallow understanding of the contradiction that is perplexing you.

    #2. Conservatives (not Republicans) conserve...
    -Money (they save more and spend less than Liberals in general).
    -nature (a real conservative loves, preserves, and knows he owes his existence to the land).
    -History (they keep reminding people of the real history of our country and mankind throughout the ages).
    -Simple living (a real conservative would live as simple a life as possible). The people living in the huge McMansions are not real Conservatives (even if they are religious).

    Liberals think they are liberating us by removing morals, and spending liberally, and pretending history doesn't matter (just their spin and reconstruction of history matters).

    That was a very superficial analysis of the differences based on the traditional stereotypes. Others may see it differently.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 10:39 a.m.

    @Wonder
    Provo, UT

    I have found myself in the same position as Joe Blow and Tyler D.

    =======

    Agreed -- I as well.

    The last Republican I voted for AS a Republican was Ronald Reagan.

    You know:
    Banning hand guns and assault weapons,
    singed abortion legislation,
    more Executive Orders than anyone else in the last 80 years,
    granted amnesty to illegal immigrants,
    raised the debt ceiling 17 times,
    Increased the size and scope of the Federal Government,
    etc., etc., etc.

    The GOP and Tea-Partiers today SAY they love Reagan,
    but he would be a RINO and publically crucified by them today.

    THEY keep moving the goal posts,
    [don't believe me, ask Mitt Romney how he feels about them].

    I am now UN-affiliated,
    but as the GOP drifts further and further to the uber-far-right-wing outfield,
    it makes me and other FORMER Republicans appear to be becoming more and more left of center,
    including Reagan.

  • Philosopher Goose Creek, SC
    Feb. 5, 2014 11:07 a.m.

    @ 2 bits:

    My deduction is merely a light criticism of wording from the actual Gallup poll:

    "For the most part, the top conservative states align with the most Republican states in the union, and the top liberal states, with the most Democratic areas."

    Secondly, assuming I have a 'shallow understanding' is taking a shot at the person and does not defend your argument.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 11:28 a.m.

    Once again we have several liberal commentators who claim to be fiscally conservative, yet complain loudly how all those "wacky Republicans" have left them behind with mostly social issues. They point out every flaw they see in the GOP, yet somehow "reluctantly" find themselves more closely aligned with the Democrats. The DEMS, of course, have not drifted to the extremely left, don't pull political tactics that harm the country, and generally have very "moderate views". Did I get that right?

    As a conservative, I have lots of problems with the GOP and its leadership. There are a few things where I find more agreement with the Democrats than with the GOP. But I certainly won't claim that I wish I could be a Democrat if those "crazy factions hadn't changed the party".

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 11:59 a.m.

    @Mountainman
    "California has the highest number of welfare recipients by far: 1,085,627. The next highest recipient state is New York, with 341,004 people on welfare. "

    So I was right. Your original comment was false because while you said per capita you aren't using per capita numbers.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 12:02 p.m.

    "California has the highest number of welfare recipients by far: 1,085,627."
    - Mountanman, 9:30 a.m. Feb. 5, 2014

    I'm not surprised. California also has the highest number of Caucasian Americans, Latino Americans, European Americans, Roman Catholics, Hindus, Muslims, millionaires, doctors, left-handed people, people who speak Chinese as a primary language, and people who speak Vietnamese as a primary language of any state in the U.S., and I'm sure that there are many other demographics I have missed, where California number one in total.

    And here's the kicker . . . California also has the highest number of PEOPLE, by far (38.3 million people, versus 26.4 million in 2nd ranked Texas). That's why the "number of welfare recipients" statistic (and most other statistics) need to be calculated and cited on a per capita basis to be credible.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Feb. 5, 2014 12:13 p.m.

    JoeCap,

    The GOP has a very poor record of fiscal conservatism. Not saying the Dems are any better, just that there is not much diff between them.

    That said, the GOP seems more willing to get us into war and spend excessively there. The Dems spend, but I see more good coming from the dem spending. The GOP only becomes fiscally conservative when they are not in control.

    Under Boehner, McConnell, Canter and Ryan, they all spent like drunken sailors. All while cutting taxes for the richest Americans.

    Healthcare is a huge issue going forward. The dems are tackling the problem poorly. The GOP sees no need to touch it.

    Immigration is a big issue. Neither party wants to really touch it. What did the GOP do about it for 6 years when they controlled the government?

    Both of our parties are taking this country down the drain. And I see them continuing to do so in the future. I just like the Dems destructive path better than the GOP's. At least as of late.

    And no, the Dems have not drifted to the extreme left.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Feb. 5, 2014 12:29 p.m.

    @JoeCapitalist2 – “But I certainly won't claim that I wish I could be a Democrat if those "crazy factions hadn't changed the party"

    You’re missing the point – we were simply pointing out where we are on the political spectrum when viewed over the past 60-70 years.

    Speaking for myself, certainly there’s wing of the Democratic Party I don’t align with (e.g., I don’t think race & poverty explain all our social problems, I don’t think communism is better than capitalism, and I deplore moral relativism).

    But do you honestly believe the Republican Party hasn’t moved to the far right?

    Eisenhower’s tax policies would make him a virtual communist today, and Nixon created the EPA and tried to pass essentially Obamacare WITH the Public Option (i.e., Obamacare is to the right of Nixon).

    When Obama tried to pass Romney’s healthcare plan, McCain’s cap & trade bill, George Bush’s immigration bill, and kills more Islamic terrorists than Bush – sorry, but I’m going to take issue with the “wacky” wing of your party that thinks he’s a Marxist and a secret Muslim… call me crazy.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 12:48 p.m.

    RE: "Utah is closet liberal, leading the charge to make same sex marriage legal nation wide". (Hutterite)

    ===

    Hutter may have a point there. We were also the first to give women the right to vote as well. (goggle "Women's suffrage in Utah"). We were actually the first to vote to give women the right to vote TWICE... once in 1870 (when we were still a Territory) but that was revoked by Congress. Then again 1895 when we wrote it into our Constitution when we became a new State.

    An interesting quote from the article... "Utah women probably succeeded in 1895 where women elsewhere had failed because their efforts were approved by leaders of the main political force in the state--the Mormon church".

    So much for political stereotypes.

    ===

    I personally think the stereotypes attached to the terms "Liberal" and "Conservative" today (which in today's politico-obsessed minds has become very twisted)... are bogus.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 12:56 p.m.

    Philosopher,
    I'm just saying that if you assume that if someone's a Democrat... they are "Liberal". Or if someone's a Republican... they are a "Conservative"... that's very shallow. It goes deeper than political labels. It's your life philosophy (not your party affiliation).

    You need to know more than just their party affiliation to know if they are a "Conservative" or a "Liberal".

    And there are Republicans who are liberal. And there are Democrats who are conservative.

    Using the political labels is just too shallow a criteria.

  • ute alumni SLC, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 1:39 p.m.

    still looking for the 27.3% of utahns that approve of barry. glad i don't know any of those folks, if they really exist.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 1:41 p.m.

    Tyler D: "But do you honestly believe the Republican Party hasn’t moved to the far right?"

    Absolutely! The GOP has moved farther to the LEFT than it has to the right. It pushes for too many pork spending projects and sells its soul for votes (although less than the DEMS do). It has done little to defend the US Constitution which was based on LIMITED government.

    The federal government is about 3 times bigger than it should be. It taxes us at least twice what it should. And it has about 10 times as much power over our everyday lives as it should.

    It might be convenient to blame that all on Democrats, but the truth is that it was a bi-partisan effort that got us where we are today.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 2:24 p.m.

    @ute alumni -- You are glad you don't know ANYONE who approves of (or presumably voted for) Obama? That is amusing. If you ever meet one of us, you'll probably be in for a pleasant surprise.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 3:15 p.m.

    @JoeCapitalist2
    "The GOP has moved farther to the LEFT than it has to the right."

    DW-NOMINATE scores the partisanship of Congressional voting records. +1 is perfectly conservative, -1 is perfectly liberal. The current GOP House has the highest positive value in the entire dataset of DW-NOMINATE scores. It even got more extreme after 2010 which is rare. Usually when a party takes control of the House it's by winning moderate seats and thus makes their caucus more moderate so it's to your credit that you elected that many strong conservatives in that tea party wave... and then gerrymandered them in so that they couldn't get booted out when their districts found out they were extreme...

    @ute alumni
    "still looking for the 27.3% of utahns that approve of barry. glad i don't know any of those folks, if they really exist."

    Well I'm one and I'm pretty sure I exist.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 5, 2014 3:23 p.m.

    "still looking for the 27.3% of utahns that approve of barry. glad i don't know any of those folks, if they really exist."

    Oh dear me..... Ute Alum doesn't know that 1/4 of the state exist. Must be a very nice little bubble to live in.

    It is interesting to me that Mountainman has Alabama, South Carolina, Mississippi, Louisiana are all liberal states.... I wonder if they know that? 4 out of 5 of the states with the highest murder rates... vote conservative. But hey..... numbers... facts..... they are all relative depending on what story you want to tell... right?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 4:34 p.m.

    re:Tyler D

    Have you seen Detroit lately? Detroit is the sad poster child of years of liberalism. A decaying, rotting mess. California is dying due to liberal policy and so is New York. Texas on the other hand is a conservative state and is #1 economically. Business are leaving California and New York and relocating to Texas. You don't see any business's relocating to California or New York do you. Wonder why New York is advertising on TV - begging people to reconsider New York for business? They wouldn't be doing that if people and business's were staying would they. As to your question, yes I would ten times rather live in Mississippi than Vermont. I would know in Mississippi my kids could join with other Christian kids in school rather than be scowled at in Vermont because they were Christian. I have family in Oregon and being a Mormon there in many cities isn't fun. Atheism reigns supreme. Again to my point ....nearly every GOP led state is prospering while every liberal led state is tipping toward bankruptcy. Numbers don't lie.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 4:42 p.m.

    @2 bits
    Cottonwood Heights, UT

    We were also the first to give women the right to vote as well. (goggle "Women's suffrage in Utah").

    =========

    That was when Utah:

    Practiced unorthodox marriages,
    had Universal Healthcare,
    practiced Communism,
    ate meat "sparingly" and only in times of famine,
    practiced alternative and natural medicines,
    had a vast Government sponsored Social safety-net,
    tried harder to be environmentally friendly,
    was on the leading edge of Science and Technology,
    made friends with the Native Americas,
    and hated Republicans.

    Yes,
    Mormons used to the Liberals,
    my how times have changed....

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Feb. 5, 2014 5:03 p.m.

    @JoeCapitalist2 – “The GOP has moved farther to the LEFT…”

    OK, we’re not comparing our positions over the last 60-70 years but the last 230 years. In that case yes, everyone has moved more to the left - if we can define left as policies created to deal with the Industrial Revolution and all the negative effects thereof – e.g., environmental destruction, monopolies, corporate power/abuse, consumer protections, safety, education, transportation, and all the other problems & amenities of a modern society that cannot or will not be provided by the private sector.

    I’ve asked this question many times but have yet to get a good answer – where can we find the libertarian utopia where the government of 1787 is effective running a modern country in 2014? Surely if it’s the best possible model there would be at least one place we could see this… and by your reasoning it should be a virtual Shangri La.

    @patriot – “I would ten times rather live in Mississippi than Vermont.”

    So you would rather live in a squalid holler so long as your kids were living among fellow Christians… alrighty-then.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 5, 2014 6:29 p.m.

    :California is dying due to liberal policy and so is New York:

    Wow.... news flash. Calif is a dying economy. I mean, it is only 2 Trillion dollars strong growing at 3.2 percent annually. That would me that the California economy grey about 64 Billion dollars last year. Doing a little math here... Utah economy is 114 million dollars... so that makes the growth rate of California about 57 percent of the entire Utah economy. Oh dear.... poor California.... every two years its growth rate eclipses Utahs total economy.

    Do you understand how odd it sounds for a state with the economy that is a rounding error size of another economy to be trying to thump their chest. Sure.. Utah is growing.... but from a number that is only 6 percent the size of the other state? And every two years.... the California economy grows more that the entire economy of Utah...? Really.... Utah should wish to have the problems California economy has....

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 6:33 p.m.

    @patriot
    "As to your question, yes I would ten times rather live in Mississippi than Vermont. "

    Mississippi is #1 in poverty, infant mortality, percentage of people not paying income taxes, obesity, and STD rates. Even their weather is awful.

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Feb. 6, 2014 1:43 a.m.

    This is just dumb. Fiscal conservative is not social conservative.

    This must really tick off the Californians. They have been considered a blue state since L.A. County joined the Bay Area, yet they have some of the most conservative counties in the country. Which is why we need to end the electoral college or break up California.

  • carman Wasatch Front, UT
    Feb. 6, 2014 9:19 p.m.

    UtahBlueDevil:

    While I get your point, can you imagine how many more jobs California could be creating if it weren't being so weighed down by the state's messed up fiscal situation, budget deficits, debt, etc. Also, California is on a similar trajectory as Illinois and other states like New Jersey who are now drowning in debt from bad decisions that compounded over time.

    Don't crow too much about California. They may have to pay the piper sometime in the not-too-distant future. When they do, it will be painful. And shame on the boomer generation who is saddling their children and grandchildren with massive debt, higher future taxes, and a lower standard of living. It is the ultimate in "I want it now! consumerism".

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    Feb. 7, 2014 8:02 a.m.

    The best most productive states and the ones in the least debt and creating the most jobs are ones generally run by Republicans. Simple as that. Now if only the liberal part of America will see that what's best for the state is best for the nation and elect one of the Republican governors, the whole country will be better off. The answers to our problems are easy and simple. Just vote the right way, and remember what the vote of the last two Presidential elections has not done. Create a better economy for all. And in doing so has added 7 trillion dollars of debt to all Americans.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    Feb. 7, 2014 9:41 a.m.

    LDS Liberal

    Reminder, which folks like you always seem to need. TEA Party. Taxed Enough Already. That is what the T-Party is and stands for. As for Reagan. "Government is not the solution, but the problem." That does not square with your assertion that he would be out of step with the TEA Party. In fact, in his early days running for President, it was the establishment Republicans of Nixon/Ford/Rockefeller ect. who were against Reagan. Reagan was the maverick of his day. He would have fit well into todays ANTI big government 17 trillion dollar debt Presidency of Obama and leadership of Pelosi and Reid. He would have been much closer to todays conservative Republicans than any of todays Democrats. And a question. If you are in deed LDS. How do you square 17 trillion dollar debt as being justified? If the LDS Church ran their economy like that they would be bankrupt. It goes totally against LDS teachings about money.