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Letter: Two senators

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  • No One Of Consequence West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 12:13 a.m.

    Well said.

  • Owen Heber City, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 12:25 a.m.

    I also see two senators - one who embarrasses us by taking a co-starring role in a shutdown that cost billions; another who embarrasses himself by staying way too long. I urge my fellow Utahns to help clean house.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 1:39 a.m.

    "I hear one man [Mike Lee] crying out for a return to our founding documents and principles."
    The writer and Mike Lee tout a particular interpretation of the founders. The one founder most shunned is Alexander Hamilton. Hamilton has been called the father of American capitalism - for good reason as the contemporary scene follows Hamilton's prescriptions closely, including public debt and the Federal Reserve. I agree there is a lot to dislike about Hamilton, but he shows that the ideas the tea party right most dislike have been with us from the very beginning of the American republic.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 5:00 a.m.

    Mike Lee stands in front of cameras and whines when he is blocked from getting his own way and inflicting Tea Party tyranny n the country. Mike Lee does not support the Constitution. In fact, Mike Lee doesn't even understand the Constitution. He does not work for the best interests of the country. He does not work for the best interests of the people of the United States. He does not work for the best interests of the people of Utah. He needs to be evicted from office the net time he stands for election, and be blocked in his efforts to hurt us all until we can put a GOOD Senator in his place.

    Mike Lee is the LAST person this country needs, or should want.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Feb. 3, 2014 5:50 a.m.

    One senator is so bent on getting 100% of what he wants that he is inflexible.

    In the end, he fights a good battle, but gets nothing.

    And some hold this out as great leadership. It is touted as standing on principle.

    Rarely in a negotiation, does one get 100% of what they want. Good leaders realize this and find a compromise that all can accept.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 3, 2014 5:57 a.m.

    Bretton..... I have no issues with you desire to remind Washington whom they serve.... but when you start talking about a singular person can channel the collect soul of the founding fathers, that is where it all falls apart. There was no uninimity across founding fathers. In fact, they argued and bickered just like today across many issues.... some a contentious as valuing a certain portion of the population as only being 3/5ths of a person. This issue would eventually erupt tearing this nation in two.

    There was no such thing a "intent of the founding fathers". What they did do is create a great mechanism for dealing with these differences. But don't pretend that just because someone does not subscribe to your brand of America that they love this nation any less. And just because they respect both the flag and constitution enough to not cheapen them into props on stage for self promotion... doesn't mean they don't cherish this nation just as much.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 5:59 a.m.

    Yaaaaaahooooo!!!

    I agree! This letter has inspired me to grab my tea party hat from the garbage, put on my colonial stockings, and invade the next town hall to yell at and belittle my representative!

    Let's rally behind Mike Lee's plan. Let's support his legislation. I mean, just look at all the good stuff he's passed...

  • Baron Scarpia Logan, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 6:06 a.m.

    Didn't Mike shut the government down and hurt southern Utah's tourism and rural economies? Didn't it also hurt non-military families working on military bases? I think most Utahns are having second thoughts about his tactics for defending the Constitution...

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 6:23 a.m.

    "One man says to let the people have liberty and be free. "

    That was a real hoot! Thanks for the morning laugh. And no, I won't be supporting Mike Lee of the Party T.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Feb. 3, 2014 6:33 a.m.

    Gag!

    btw --
    Despite this letter,
    Offs are - Bretton Ferraro is a Republican,
    and voted for Orrin Hatch anyway.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Feb. 3, 2014 7:30 a.m.

    Americans who can read and who do read know that Mike Lee has read the Constitution and that he makes no apologies for defending the Constitution. Orrin Hatch is embarrassed by the Constitution. He told us that he would throw out ObamaCare. He did not tell us that he would replace ObamaCare with its identical twin, HatchCare. Mike Lee knows what duties Congress has been authorized to perform. Orrin Hatch cares only about money. He brought the NSA to Utah. He stomped all over the 4th Amendment so that government could spy on us, could listen to our cell phone calls, could read our emails. Mike Lee can read. He can use simple deductive logic to see that the ObamaCare TAX that the Supreme Court allowed Congress to assess is not linked to any authorized duty of Congress. He stood against it. Mike Lee did not shut down the government. Barrack Obama shut down the government. Anyone is entitled to an opinion, but nobody is entitled to their own set of facts.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Feb. 3, 2014 7:47 a.m.

    Well said Marist.

    "God will not look kindly on a generation that was given everything but fought for nothing."

    Just because those who are fighting for civil rights (SSM), a fair wage, clean air, a women's right to govern her own health decisions, are fighting for principles and causes you don't agree with doesn't mean fights aren't taking place.

    I've been a Republican and only changed because they became conservatives. Two views of economics and two views of international involvement usually is a good thing. What is not good is an ideology mired in the past trying to solve the problems of a world that literally changes at light speed.

    The civil rights of a time when white, straight, men made all the rules, are very different from a society that acknowledges and includes all races, genders, sexual orientations, and ontological beliefs.

    It is not helpful to have a point of view that rather than celebrating the genius of founders who not only gave us both specific laws but also general principles to use those laws through time, tries to drag us back to circumstances that have long expired.

    Repbulicans..ahh maybe..conservatives, no.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Feb. 3, 2014 8:19 a.m.

    Blah, Blah, Blah...

    Mike Lee might read the Constitution Mike,
    but
    Senator Fiscally irresponsible didn't even pay his own house payments.

    BTW --
    Why do you keep attacking Orrin Hatch when you voted for him and kept him in office?

    Talk about audacity...

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 8:25 a.m.

    So, Mike Richards,

    Did you vote for Orrin Hatch in 1976, 1982, 1988, 1994, 2000, 2006 and 2012?

  • booshway Woods Cross, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 8:27 a.m.

    One Senator doesn't want communists, tax cheats and racists in the President's Cabinet, the other says a President should have whoever he wants in his cabinet and voted accordingly. I haven't voted for that one for at least 18 years.
    Senator Lee did not shut down the gov't, that was Obama. Lee doesn't control the operations of the gov't, Obama does. Lee didn't block view pull offs to see Mt. Rushmore, that was Obama's doing. Lee didn't block OUR national monuments, Obama did that. Let's put blame where it belongs, right on Obama's shoulders. He refuses to see the national disaster that is his namesake - Obamacare. Lee has my vote until he gets Potomac fever, (seems every one who stays too long in Washington come down with it, eh, Hatch?)

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Feb. 3, 2014 8:37 a.m.

    "Lee has my vote until he gets Potomac fever"

    Potomac fever = politicians who vote and legislate based on the money they receive from corporations and unions.

    Are you for ending corporate and union contributions and lobbying?

    Until that changes, potomac fever is inevitable for all of our elected representatives.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 9:03 a.m.

    You agree with one and not the other. With much hyperbole. Got it. What I don't get is why god is going to be grumpy with a generation that has been given stuff they didn't fight for. It was given to them. Why fight?

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Feb. 3, 2014 9:21 a.m.

    Mike Richards

    If one reads the constitution, the sure understanding one walks away with is that the majority does, in fact, rule. No majority, no ability to make legislation. Oh, and that President guy gets a say too.

    The Tea Party with Cruz at the lead and Lee in the wings wanted to shut down the govt. unless they could get their way with Obamacare.

    Here are Lee’s own words in July of 2013:

    “If Republicans in both houses simply refuse to vote for any continuing resolution that contains further funding for further enforcement of Obamacare, we can stop it, we can stop the individual mandate from going into effect.”

    So, the Senator knew what he was doing. He was advocating to either defund Obamacare or shutdown the govt.

    Older Republican leaders (who can read or remember history) told them it was a bad idea. But you don’t need to listen when you are dead sure you are right. The President could not help but win this one but they went ahead anyway. This is the very definition of a fool’s errand.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 9:25 a.m.

    Why is it that conservatives consistently are misinformed on issues? President Obama shut down the government? Really? Show me which piece of legislation he vetoed, or signed, that did this. What bill was it? He shut down the monuments? Show me where he made that order.

    Why is it that conservatives are so misinformed on both our Constitution and our founding fathers? There is no question that many of our founding fathers would strongly oppose the conservative movement of today. These people were NOT uniform in their believes of how government should function. Some thought federal government should have far more power and that states should have little. These people, these intellectual elitists, would have just as divergent opinions today. The Constitutiin does not come close to supporting most of the positions the conservatives take. Conservatives are consistently wrong about what the Constitution allows, or doesn't allow. Conservatives, especially those who think no one else has read it or understand it, are consistently wrong about it.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 9:34 a.m.

    The tea party platform? Don't bother with an actual plan, doing the job you were hired to do or worries about actually being factual, we can beat them and lead with hyperbole.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Feb. 3, 2014 9:37 a.m.

    Is the letter writer hammering those of us who NEVER voted for Orrin Hatch?
    or
    Is the letter writer hammering those who ALWAYS have voted for Orrin Hatch?

    and

    Is the letter writer defending the OLD Mike Lee,
    or
    the new and improved Mike Lee?

    Which one?

    Either way --
    just more of the GOP eating the GOP political circus,
    witch hunt of the Republican Party.

  • Schnee Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 9:38 a.m.

    Mike Lee wants to take things back so far that he supports repealing the Amendment allowing for direct election of senators by the people.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 9:51 a.m.

    Owen,
    A starring role in the shutdown? harry reid is not from Utah. HE shut down the government. the house voted to keep it open, harry would not even allow a vote.

    Baron, Owen
    How can a senator from the minority party shut down the government? They cannot call a vote in the senate. The person responsible for the shutdown is reid.

    Mark,
    BO did not shut down the government – it was reid. Of course, had reid allowed a vote on the legislation to keep the government open and it had passed the obstructionist senate, I suspect BO would have vetoed it.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 10:18 a.m.

    The fact is, many of us would like to return to the simpler life we had before, but it just isn't possible. Time doesn't stand still and we can't either.

    Senator Lee is at war with our present government and if he wins, we all lose. We cannot win by destroying the only thing that is protecting us.

    On another field, would the Super Bowl have been possible if football was being played by the rules of long ago?

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 10:37 a.m.

    Mike Lee knows a lot about the Constitution, but I don't know if he's the best Senator ever. I hope he can learn to get along in Washington (without getting co-opted as they all eventually do into the Washington as usual fog).

    Lee may be the best candidate we have available when he comes up for re-election, we don't know yet. But I don't see anybody out there who would be an obvious option to replace him.

    ===

    Hatch committed last time that it was his last. Even if he runs again.. he won't win (that is a certainty).

    So the better question is not who will replace Mike Lee... but who will replace Hatch?

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 10:43 a.m.

    "He didn't make his house payments".... must be the anti-Lee talking point today.

    Is that going to be your campaign against him? His personal life?

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 10:45 a.m.

    @mike
    How exactly did Obama shut down the government? I thought it was the legislative branches job to pass a budget which they failed to do which lead to the government shut down . you are right about one thing though you are not free to make up your own facts.

    @lost
    how can a minority party shut down the government? Simple force a super majority vote on every new legislation including the budget.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 10:46 a.m.

    He could talk but he could not create. The shutdown was already in effect when Mike Lee supported the filibuster against the legislation ending it. He did not cause the shutdown.

    Harry Reid forced the total shutdown of the federal government.

    And if we are going after character smears for past experiences, lets start at the top of our federal government and start working down. Obama in his own book admits to using cocaine, which in some states would be a felony. So as a critic of Mike Lee please keep it to his policies, and remember if the past matters, as it should...,

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 10:48 a.m.

    @Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah

    Orrin Hatch is embarrassed by the Constitution. He told us that he would throw out ObamaCare. Orrin Hatch cares only about money. He brought the NSA to Utah. He stomped all over the 4th Amendment so that government could spy on us, could listen to our cell phone calls, could read our emails.

    7:30 a.m. Feb. 3, 2014

    ==========

    You know,
    The only thing funny I can come up about your rants about Orrin Hatch,
    would be to know that you also voted for Barack Obama...

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 12:11 p.m.

    @hahahaha

    That was quite the string of hyperbole about Obama and those you disagree with, to bad it flies in the face of the fact that it was congress including senator Lee that failed to pass a budget thereby shutting down the government, but hey why let a little thing like reality get in the way of a good rant.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Feb. 3, 2014 12:12 p.m.

    Those who post personal attacks against other posters must think that being a school yard bully is the political correct thing to do. The issue is our two Senators, not other posters. What happens in a voting booth is private and the Deseret Moderators moderators have a duty to insure that it always remains private. No one is allowed to look over our shoulder. There are no microphones present. There are no TV cameras recording how we vote. Even the judges who certify that an election was properly run cannot watch a voter as he pushes the button; yet, the moderators allow some posters to pretend that they were spying in the voting booth. The moderators allow supposition to be posted in the Deseret News. Why not rename the Deseret News "The National Enquirer, Utah Edition"?

    Mike Lee stands for the Constitution. Barrack Obama issued the orders that shut down the government. Congress cannot do that. Only the Executive Branch has that authority. Obama shut it down to save his failed ObamaCare. Look what has happened since. More failure. Every Democrat is running for cover. And you blame Lee?

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 12:14 p.m.

    I'm still waiting for this Mike Lee fellow to call out and rebuke the flying of the Confederate flag at his little protest, the symbol of treason and rebellion. I guess that is acceptable to appear to advocate open revolt. Now tell me who is patriotic.

  • CB Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 12:19 p.m.

    Shut down of the government? Planned and prepared for by the Administration. Choices of what
    should be shut down? Planned and prepared for by the Administration. Signs in place the day of.
    Perhaps the only thing the Democrats are good at, creating pain and chaos.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 12:54 p.m.

    @mike richards
    the government shut down when congress failed to provide the funding to keep the doors open, simple economics mike, had he kept the doors open republicans would have complained that he was side stepping their authority by keeping government open and ignoring the power of the purse string which belong to the congress.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 1:16 p.m.

    Springstreet needs to go read up on the facts of the pretend shutdown.

    The senate didn't get to vote on over 20 funding bills because Harry Reid wouldn't bring them to the floor. Pretend shut down is primarily his fault.

    You can credit Boehner with refusing 1 bill to be voted on. That would make him about 3% responsible.

    You can't blame Lee. His one vote never made a bit of difference. 0% responsible for shutdown.

    You can blame Obama, as he was pulling Harry's puppet strings. He and Reid share 97% responsibility for the pretend shut down. Obama is also 100% responsible for the choices of what to shut down and what not to. He could of used his magic pen and phone to keep everything open.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 3, 2014 1:34 p.m.

    "You can't blame Lee. His one vote never made a bit of difference. 0% responsible for shutdown."

    This is one of the most wonderful examples of circular logic out there. The man grandstands (Lee)…. personally tells the nation that he is going to shut down the government, and yet, then is absolved of all responsibility for it when it fails to achieve its objectives.

    "“Congress, of course, has to pass a law to continue funding government,” Lee said. “Lately, we’ve been doing that through a funding mechanism called a continuing resolution. If Republicans in both houses simply refuse to vote for any continuing resolution that contains further funding for further enforcement of Obamacare, we can stop it, we can stop the individual mandate from going into effect.”

    Yep…. Lee had nothing to do with it….. 0 percent responsibility. Lee even sent a letter asking congress people to defund the government…. 14 originally signed… half had their names later removed. 0 percent responsibility.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 1:56 p.m.

    Has anybody stopped to think about the possibility that the short partial government shutdown may have (in the long run) been a good thing?

    Think about it...
    - Since then there has been more cooperation in Washington. They passed 2 debt limit increase bills with bipartisan support. They passed a federal budget for the first time in the Obama Administration (and without a lot of drama and partisan grandstanding I might add). They saved billions of $$$ in those few days the government was shut down and not spending. It finally brought some things to a head.

    Is it possible that the partial shutdown actually had some GOOD long term effects?

    The left keeps lambasting him for being involved in the shutdown, but could it have been a good thing for some of them to finally come to their senses (on both sides)?

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 2:00 p.m.

    @hahahaha

    How exactly did I do that? I see no were in my comment were I took away or stated i thought your free speech should be taken away.

    @badger

    And why did the senate not vote on the bills, thats right because Lee and his friends shut down the Senate by forcing super majority votes to do anything. its not the facts I have a problem with its the distortion of them, The facts are simple congress is responsible to pass a budget, they failed to do so.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Feb. 3, 2014 2:28 p.m.

    Spring Street,

    Would you please tell us WHICH parts of government were not funded? Where the parks and monuments funded? Why did Obama shut down the parks and monuments? Was WIC funded? Why did Obama shut down WIC? Was the military funded? Why did Obama furlough civilian workers on military bases? Was Medicare and Social Security funded? Why did Obama stop sending checks? Was ObamaCare funded? Why has Obama NOT implemented ObamaCare?

    The only thing that was not funded is still the only thing that Obama refuses to implement. He used ObamaCare as his reason for shutting down essential services that had been fully funded by Congress, yet he blamed the Republicans for shutting down government.

    Very foolish people believe him. Those who refuse to read the facts believe him. Those who think that our elected Representatives shut down the government, believe Obama.

    Obama was caught in a lie. That should surprise no one. There seems to be no end to his lies. What is surprising is how gullible many citizens are when they refuse to read, to think and to check for themselves why Obama shut down the government.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Feb. 3, 2014 2:36 p.m.

    Where the parks and monuments funded?
    Was WIC funded? Why did Obama shut down WIC?
    Was Medicare and Social Security funded?

    Mr Richards,

    Which of these things do you feel that the Federal Government should be funding?
    Do you feel that any of these things are provided for in the constitution?

    Why isn't you take that "These things should not be federally funded in the first place so there should be no complaints"

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 2:49 p.m.

    Senator Lee ruined his effectiveness with the infamous tea party tantrum show while following The Texas Senator. He should resign.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 2:51 p.m.

    Lee and company had ONE failed filibuster. It had NO EFFECT. It didn't tie up the senate from voting on any of the other 20+ funding bills.

    Talk about distortion of the facts!

    The other 20 plus bills never went to the floor courtesy of Harry Reid, the hand that caused the pretend shutdown.

    Once again, Lee talked a lot, but that is all he was able to do. His filibuster and vote made no difference. Reid's hand controlled what happened in the senate, not Lee. And obviously neither of them controlled what happened in the house.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 3:04 p.m.

    @mike richards

    congress did not simply not pass funding for the ACA they actually did not pass any spending bill at all. the fact is that the GOP did want to defund or delay the ACA and refused to pass a bill out that included funding for the ACA but at no point did the congress actually pass a bill through both houses that funded any part of the government. For someone that worries about people making up their own facts you sure seem to do it a lot.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Feb. 3, 2014 4:11 p.m.

    @Owen:
    "I also see two senators - one who embarrasses us by taking a co-starring role in a shutdown that cost billions; another who embarrasses himself by staying way too long."

    You've a slight error there in your comment that I'd be willing to help you correct.

    It's one senator and an occupant of the White House who shut the government down. The senator is the leader of the senate and the other guy sits in the Oval Office.

    "I urge my fellow Utahns to help clean house."

    Your fellow Utahns could help remove the one guy... but the people of Nevada are needed to remove the other guy.

  • Res Novae Ashburn, VA
    Feb. 3, 2014 4:22 p.m.

    As one whose job would be adversely impacted by a shutdown, I followed the very public House GOP strategy to use the threat of a shutdown as it played out in the summer and early fall of 2013.

    It was a weapon that their side put on the table.

    They did so willingly.

    They did so gambling that the Democrats would back down, or that they would emerge less scratched from a shutdown.

    Both gambles failed.

    They were the ones who pulled the trigger on the shutdown. It was their strategy.

    Blaming the other side for the GOP's deployment of its own deliberate and stated strategy is an exercise in sophistry.

    Obama didn't shut the government down. It shut down as required by federal law when Congress failed to pass an annual appropriations budget to begin Fiscal Year 14. And that failure is directly attributable to the extreme right of the GOP, whose members *cheered* in the House Chamber when the shutdown went into effect.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 5:10 p.m.

    If Mike Lee really does "fight for the Constitution" then why is he flip flopping suddenly?

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 5:18 p.m.

    Obama shut down the government? Huh? Nice try repubs, but we aren't stupid.

    "Michele Bachmann said she and her Republican colleagues in the House are "very excited" about the prospect.

    "It's exactly what we wanted, and we got it," she continued."

    "If the House GOP stands firm and refuses to play ball with the Senate, "people will be very grateful," Bachmann told the WaPo."

    Sorry repubs, but this one is on you. Own it. You built the government shutdown. You thought it would force Obama's hand. It didn't. Now own it.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 5:51 p.m.

    It is pointless to try to convince Mike Richards, jsf, BadgerBadger, lost in DC, CB, wrz, and others that the real, proximate cause of the partial government shutdown was the refusal on the part of House Republicans to pass a Continuing Resolution that didn't exclude funding for the ACA; just as it is pointless for them to try to convince Furry1993, UtahBlueDevil, Baron Scarpia, Twin Lights, mark, spring street, Tolstoy, Res Novae, The Real Maverick, and others that the real, proximate cause of the partial government shutdown was the refusal on the part of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (at the direction of the Obama Administration) to allow the Continuing Resolution(s) that the House did pass (sans ACA funding) to come to a vote on the Senate floor. It is probably safe to say that the only thing about which these two disparate groups of DN Opinion forum commenters would agree is that the real, proximate cause of the partial government shutdown is in dispute, at least among the commenters in this forum. Everything else is really just opinion based on a complicated set of circumstances, and "peppered" with varying degrees of *post hoc, ergo propter hoc* logic.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 7:51 p.m.

    It is pointless to try to get the liberal lot to see that any democrat is at fault for anything he/she does. All that seems to matter to them is that the money for vote buying programs, which have bought their vote, continues to flow to them.

    Until there is catastrophic economic ruin in the US, and the great recession apparently wasn't catastrophic enough, they will value a quick few bucks over the long term wellness of the country.

    We could work for complete and long term prosperity for all. But class jealousy and Obama worship is more important too many people. They want equal poverty, rather than equal opportunity and prosperity.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Feb. 3, 2014 8:36 p.m.

    SG in SLC,

    I’ll take my lumps when due. But I am not a Democrat. I am one of those dreaded “RINOs” who besmirches the name Republican because I believe in the “evils” of compromise, cooperation, and even having friends across the aisle.

    No. This one really was the Republican’s fault. The Tea Partiers would not listen to the “establishment” Republicans and the “establishment” types couldn’t impose party discipline. They had to let the markets (voters) do it for them.

    Now we are seeing a very different party. Why? Because they were chastened by failure.

    It was what it was. A Republican attempt to slow roll Obamacare into oblivion. Didn’t work. Time to own it, learn from it, and move on.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Feb. 3, 2014 9:30 p.m.

    @mark:
    "President Obama shut down the government? Really?"

    It was Harry Reid, the Senate leader, who shut down the government... with the encouragement of Obama. It works like this... The House passed a government funding bill, which, according to the US Constitution is their duty (Article 1.7). The bill was sent to the Senate for action but Harry Reid refused to take it up. And Obama said he wouldn't sign it. So the government was shut down. The House cannot issue the shut-down order nor can the Senate. The president is the chief executive of the government. Only he has the authority to give the order to shut anything down. He concentrated on the parks to get the maximum effect of the shut down. Notice that the Congress and the White House were not shut down. Ask yourself why. These organizations are part of the government.

    "Some thought federal government should have far more power and that states should have little."

    Many didn't. Here's what one founder said... 'I am committed against anything which may weaken or destroy the Constitution especially against all extensions of Executive power... Daniel Webster.

  • Owen Heber City, UT
    Feb. 3, 2014 9:43 p.m.

    Mike, et. al. -- R.L. Stevenson said: "to tell the truth is not merely to state the facts, but to leave a true impression." When the history of the last few years is written, it will say:

    ..."the real, proximate cause of the partial government shutdown was the refusal on the part of House Republicans to pass a Continuing Resolution that didn't exclude funding for the ACA;" and "the efforts' most vocal supporters in the senate were Ted Cruz and Mike Lee."

    Of course, those history books will not be credible, having been written by outside-the-talk-radio bubble historians. You can repeat "Reid/Obama did it" all day long, but your facts are yours alone (along with the talk-radio audience.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Feb. 3, 2014 9:58 p.m.

    @SG in SLC:
    "It is pointless to try to convince Mike Richards, jsf, BadgerBadger, lost in DC, CB, wrz, and others that the real, proximate cause of the partial government shutdown was the refusal on the part of House Republicans to pass a Continuing Resolution that didn't exclude funding for the ACA..."

    It is the responsibility of the House to decide which parts of government is to be funded for the next fiscal year. With that authority, the House passed a funding bill that provided funding to the entire government except Obamacare. This is their call. This bill is to go to the Senate for action. But Harry Reid refused to even take it up. The House passed several government funding bills and Reid refused to take them up. Hence, the government run out of money to pay the bills. So, who did it? Not the House. The Congressmen did their job per the US Constitution. The Senate, with the encouragement of the president failed to do its job.

  • Owen Heber City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 12:56 a.m.

    Wrz- I give up. You and Ted Cruz (after getting kicked in the face by public opinion) are right.

    When you tell me you'll burn down my town if I don't disavow my deeply held beliefs, I'll take responsibility for the ash heap.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 4, 2014 5:51 a.m.

    I read over the comments here aimed at Mike Richards... and I must admit they give me a smile. As odd as it sounds, the more I read from Mike, the more i get him. He largely comes from a time and place where things were much more simple .... where most people believed the same way..... and most looked and behaved in a similar fashion. Much of my family comes from the same place.

    They bring with them life experiences that shape their opinions, and where they see things in different ways than the rest of us do. And that is ok. There are many fundamental things I am sure I agree with Mike on.

    This loops us back to Senator Lee. If he and I were to meet, I am sure there is much we would agree upon. I am sure we would agree that there has to be a more efficient way to deliver government services. The how is where the disagreement would likely come into play.

    Where I have issue is anyone saying any individual channels the intent of the founding fathers. It is just not possible, because they too were a very diverse group of men.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 7:15 a.m.

    Re: "If one reads the constitution, the sure understanding one walks away with is that the majority does, in fact, rule."

    Then why isn't the large, large majority of Americans that opposes Obamacare ruling?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 4, 2014 7:55 a.m.

    :Then why isn't the large, large majority of Americans that opposes Obamacare ruling?:

    Because not everyone dislikes it for the same reasons you do. In fact, there is a portion that don't think it went far enough. Or others think it needs to be tweaked or fixed, not repealed. I know, shockingly, there are more than to trains of thought out there..... it isn't all "A or B", good or evil, black or white, or even conservative or liberal.

    The largest voting block today is registered as non-partisan. Moving forward, getting anything done is gong to take a plurality of people...

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Feb. 4, 2014 7:59 a.m.

    Procuradorfiscal,

    Because the people do not legislate. The people do not execute the laws. The people do not judge the law of the land. Those tasks are assigned in our constitution to specific parties (two of whom the people get to vote for).

    If you want to pass legislation, you need votes - in both houses. And unless you have the super-majority outlined in the constitution, you will need the president to agree. Without that, you get bupkis.

    WRZ,

    “All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.”

    AND

    “Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States: If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated . . . “

    BTW - Anyone remember when folks were clamoring for the President (Reagan at the time) to have line item authority on the budget? Anyone want that now?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 12:50 p.m.

    Orin Hatch is a product of over 30 years in Washington. The crony-ism and the good ole boy - don't rock the boat culture. Washington is dysfunctional because of people just like Hatch who have long overstayed their usefulness and have now become a road block to anything changing. Mike Lee is the future ...if we still have one left in this country. If you listen to Mike you get it that Mike understands what needs to be done to restore fiscal sanity to our country. I will also say that KSL is connected to Orin Hatch at the hip and the two form a team to destroy Mike Lee. KSL - with Doug Wright - and the other liberal progressives don't want change and they will do whatever is needed to retain their power base. Utah needs to distance itself from Orin Hatch and KSL otherwise we risk being part of the problem in Washington not the solution.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 4, 2014 8:16 p.m.

    What Mike Richards doesn't want is anyone disagreeing with him. Period! But the problem he has now is people are becoming more and more educated. They don't believe the arguments that have been forced in their faces. Mr. Richards has given misinformation in abundance. He now wants the Deseret news to make others stop "attacking his statements". Come on Mr. Richards, we just don't believe all that you print. Sometimes it doesn't make logical sense! I find that people just are not buying the hype. Mr. Richards calls our President a liar but when the tables turn he runs for cover. People are angry and tired of the propaganda.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 11:12 a.m.

    airnaut,
    Which Senator is "Senator fiscal responsible"?

    I know Hatch says he is fiscal responsible, but he voted for TARP (during the Bush administration) and voted for the wallstreet and auto-industry bailouts during the Obama administration, and he voted for the federal budgets that hugely increased our debt (during the Bush and Obama administrations).

    Which Utah representative is fiscal responsible?

    What Senator in Washington (from ANY State)... is "fiscal responsible"?

  • Confused Sandy, UT
    Feb. 5, 2014 11:58 a.m.

    2 bits... Define "fiscal responsible" please...

    If your ox is in the mire because others put the mire there, do you remove the mire entirely? not knowing how it has affected other things or do you remove the mire in segments?

    This is what kills me with people like the Tea party on the right and the Nancy Pelosi's or left. it is "All or Nothing".

    Maybe the reason Hatch voted for the bail-outs is because the Bush and Obama presidencies has pushed the economy to the brink of the cliff, sometime to prevent bigger things from happening, you have to do the lesser of two evils....

    in order to fix the current debt, size of government and other issues, it needs to be done in a systematic way to prevent bigger problems from happening. Neither side is doing that right now.

  • dan76 san antonio, TX
    Feb. 5, 2014 3:01 p.m.

    An outsider's view of Utah's two senators suggests one is in the pocket of Zion Bank due to a speedy short sale and a subsequent mortgage relief of nearly 300,000 dollars, while the other is beholden to big corporation campaign donors.

  • RFLASH Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 6, 2014 3:58 p.m.

    You know, I love my home here in Utah, but I am tired of people bashing this great nation that has given us so much! Utah wouldn't be what it is without being a part of the United States of America. This means we not only think about Utah, but we stand together as one great nation! Our federal government is no worse than the state government!