Soon, when byu plays Gonzaga, we will see if byu is really a decent team or just
beating some WCC nobodies.The WCC doesn't have a single ranked
team and byu is currently 0-4 against ranked teams, so having even one win
against a top 25 team all season is looking unlikely at this point.Byu's rpi is still pretty high, but will continue to drop as the WCC is
such a poor conference. Until a few weeks ago, byu had a higher RPI than Duke,
Michigan State, Louisville, and Kentucky. Those teams all have extremely
difficult conference schedules so mocking anyone with a lower RPI only shows the
lack of understanding of basketball. None of those teams needed to be concerned
about a less than impressive RPI because they knew they were going to play a ton
of great teams in conference play. So lets not fall too in love with RPI until
the season is winding down.
The WCC is better than the PAC 12 since BYU is in it.
The WCC has nothing to be ashamed of... There are some solid teams in the league
this year... So, 2013 ute seniors who have gone 1-4 against the WCC Cougs, nice
try but you failed... BTW, here are a few facts that you should know as you crow
about your team and your conference:. The WCC's 3rd place team
beat Boise State on their home floor by almost 10... The Utes lost to them.... The utes have played 5 games in their conference and won 2... 4 of
those 5 games were against teams with the worst four conference records in the
league... One of those teams has not not won a league game yet (USC)...(Utah
happened to be one of the five teams that have beaten them)... Two of the other
3 last place teams have only one win a piece and that was against (you guessed
it) the mighty utes... . The utes and WSU are in a dogfight to see
who will have the league's 11th highest RPI... . 4 of
BYU's 5 non-conference losses were to ranked teams... 3 of those were on
the road... BTW, what's the ute's road record? lol.
@2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0 (aka Chris B) - Thanks for stopping into Cougar
Nation frequently. We appreciate your loyalty. With all you expertise on BYU,
I wouldn't think you would have such basic questions, but since you do let
me answer them for you.Cougs don't need to wait until Gonzaga
to find out who we are. We have proven we are a very good team with nice wins
over Stanford and Texas and close loses to Iowa St, Wichita St and Oregon. We
have also proven we are inconsistent, and have let lesser teams like Pepperdine,
LMU and Utah win. When we're hitting our shots, making our free throws and
staying out of foul trouble; we are a Top 25 team. But again, we are not
consistent.I realize you're using your RPI argument to cover
Utah's pathetic non-conference schedule. Utes are better than I thought
they'd be, but have no chance at an NCAA with the non-conference schedule
which is why Utes RPI is so low.
let's see how utah finishes their season before we get anymore smack from
the homeys. they luckily outscore ucla and now all of a sudden the smackers
Re: PoymanJust to make sure you are up to speed, the Utes are 3-3 in
conference and one of those victories came against a ranked team, UCLA. By your
own comments, BYU has yet to win against a ranked team, even at home. Not
trying to be argumentative (as the DNews only allows that from BYU supporters)
but your comments may have more credibility if you have your facts correct.Go Utes
Magic didn't happen in PullmanJust to make sure you can see the
real world outside of your crimson bubble:BYU is ranked #40 with 5
road/neutral site wins.Utah is ranked #124 with 0 road/neutral site
wins.After losing to +100 RPI Utah, UCLA dropped out of the rankings
- so, Utah is also yet to win against a ranked team.
#1 Arizona is very good, but the Wildcats are the only PAC 12 team currently
ranked in the AP Top 25. The Big 12, by comparison, has 6 ranked teams.BYU has played three AP Top 25 teams - #5 Wichita St, #13 U Mass, and #16 Iowa
St - losing close games each time (BYU was only down 57-59 with 4 minutes left
versus Wichita St).Utah hasn't played any teams currently
ranked in the AP Top 25 and the Utes are winless on the road.
phoenix,Losing close game to ranked teams doesn't count for
anything!How soon you byu fans forget what you said all football
season.Best win of the season for any team in Utah?The
Utes over UCLA.The Pac 12 only has Arizona ranked?Want
to go double check those rankings pal? Or perhaps you weren't
aware Colorado is in the Pac 12 maybe?And why reference the Big 12 -
they didn't invite byu remember?
A Utah homer pretending that Utah is in the same category as Duke, Michigan
State, Louisville, and Kentucky, shows a complete lack of understanding of
basketball.The WCC may not have a single ranked team, but the PAC 12
only has one. Anybody claiming that the WCC is a poor conference simply
doesn't know what they're talking about. Five of the ten teams in the
WCC are ranked in the RPI Top 100. Not as strong as the PAC 12, but still a very
good conference that is ranked in the top third of conferences.BYU,
with the 4th best non-conference schedule, deserves their #40 ranking.Only
2 of BYU's 13 wins have come against Bottom 100 or non-Div 1 programs.Utah, with the 350th worst non-conference schedule, also deserves their
#124 ranking.9 of Utah's 14 wins have come against Bottom 100 or
non-Div 1 programs.
LoneStar,Good try. The post says nothing of Utah. It simply points
out that byu homers have been in love with their RPI all season, suggesting it
is the equivalent of a ranking. And using that "logic" one
would have concluded a couple weeks ago byu was better than Duke, Louisville,
Kentucky, and Michigan State.The only problem is those teams
actually were ranked and byu was not.So apparently those who make
the rankings didn't think of much of byu's rpi as byu fans do.It would be like a WAC/independent football fan laughing at Alabama in
football after week 1-2 of the season in which Alabama plays a couple weak
division II teams.
LoneStar,I noticed you left out what byu's conference schedule
ranking is of all NCAA teams?And also what Utah's is?Interesting that you byu fans know so well what the non-conference strength is
but not the conference schedule ranks?Ya, I'd probably do the
same if I was a byu fan.
christy"The Pac 12 only has Arizona ranked?Want to
go double check those rankings pal?"Double Checked the rankings,
PAL!UCLA and Colorado were BOTH dropped from the latest rankings.
Arizona is the ONLY PAC 12 team ranked in either the AP or Coaches polls.The Utes like to beat their chests about the PAC 12, but the truth is,
since Utah joined the PAC, the PAC 12 has been mediocre, at best, when compared
to other major basketball conferences.Coaches/AP Polls#1/#1
Arizona#4/#5 Wichita St#12/#13 UMass#17/#16 Iowa St#21/ur GonzagaIn Coaches "others receiving votes",
California(23), Colorado(18), Oregon(11), UCLA(7), Texas(5)In AP
"others receiving votes", Gonzaga(59), California(44), Colorado(26),
Currently Ranked TeamsPAC - 1 (Arizona)WCC - 1 (Gonzaga)Games Played Against Ranked OpponentsBYU - 3 (Wichita St, UMass, Iowa
St)Utah - 0Road/Neutral WinsBYU - 5Utah - 0Current RPI#40 BYU#124 UtahFor a fan to be
spouting off about NCAA tournament prospects for a #124 team that has only won 1
road conference game in 20 tries, with 7 road conference games still to play, is
LoneStar,So 5 teams getting Coaches votes in the Pac 12 to 1 in the
WCC?Sounds about right.You're right, the Pac 12 has
been average "comopared to other major basketball conferences"And how has it stacked up compared non non-major conferences like the WCC?How many total NCAA berths has the Pac 12 had since we joined compared
to berths for the WCC since you were forced out of the MWC?And like
I said, can't beat your chest about losing to good teams. Any team can do
that.The rankings of Wichiga, Umass, and Iowa State don't mean
a thing - you lost all of them. How quickly byu fans flip flop from
what they said all football season.Now losing to ranked teams is
commendable, but it wasn't before?Nope, no double standard
deductive,Whats laughable is a WCC fan suggesting the WCC and Pac 12
are comparable since each has one team ranked currently. And as Chris
correctly point out, you're bragging about simply playing ranked teams?Congratulations, you must be so proud. You were on the same court as a
ranked team. What an accomplishment. Never mind what the scoreboard said. Now
that's laughable. For someone to be spouting off about RPI when not too
long ago like Chris mentions such "deductive reasoning" would have
concluded byu was better than many teams that aren't currently playing a
poor WCC schedule. Why is that byu was never ranked this year even though
byu's RPI was better than the teams Chris mentions and they WERE/ARE
ranked?Did the experts just forget about byu's RPI? Maybe it
was just an oversight.
Gonzaga can't compete with Arizona. byu can't compete Utah. Nuff'
KenI can cite hundreds of examples of teams ranked in the #30 to #50
RPI range getting at-large bids to the NCAA tournament.Can you cite
one single example of a team ranked #124 or higher getting an at-large bid to
the NCAA tournament?When it comes to major college basketball
success, a Big Dance invite is the gold standard for success.Conference affiliation is meaningless. Teams are judged on their own merits.
Uteananymous"Conference affiliation is meaningless" says
the fan whose team isn't wanted by any major conference. And your statement
is not true. Strength of schedule matters a lot. And as much as byu fans wish
to believe that strength of schedule is basically only comprised of out of
conference games, the truth is that conference play represents more of the
schedule than non conference play. so teams playing in weak conferences(like byu
does) must try and schedule a heavy out of conference. You byu fans are still
trying to believe RPI equates to ranking. It certainly doesn't halfway
through the season. If it did, why was byu never ranked and the previously
mentioned teams were even when byu had a higher RPI? Yes, Utah
played a very bad out of conference schedule. And byu is playing a very bad
conference schedule, which is more of the total schedule than out of conference.
What do you think is going to happen to byu's RPI after playing 20 games
against an overall very poor conference?
ekute, "Gonzaga can't compete with Arizona. byu can't compete
Utah." And according to byu fans Utah can't compete with
the rest of the Pac 12. So that tells us where byu would stack up in the Pac
12. And if anyone wants to throw out RPI, again I ask: Why was byu never
ranked even though they had a higher RPI than Duke, Michigan State, and Ohio
Ken"Whats laughable is a WCC fan suggesting the WCC and Pac 12
are comparable since each has one team ranked currently.""deductive reasoning" didn't suggest any such thing; he simply
posted some facts, which directly contradict CB's boastful spin.What's truly laughable is Utah fans trying to make the argument that
prospects for basketball success are pre-determined by conference affiliation.
If that were so, how do you explain teams like San Francisco, UTEP,
and UNLV, from "smaller" conferences, winning national championships?
Even teams like Indiana St, Houston, Memphis and Butler have made the national
championship game.The truth is, WCC #25 Gonzaga and #40 BYU have
much better chances of playing in the Big Dance this season than PAC 12 #118
Washington St and #124 Utah.That may be a bitter pill for the kids
on the hill to swallow, but that's just the way it is.
KenTypical, irrelevant spin by a BYU hater, but you completely
dodged the question:"Can you cite one single example of a team
ranked #124 or higher getting an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament?"BYU at #40 is currently in the mix for an NCAA bid. Utah at #124 is
NOT.SOS does matter a lot, and Utah, playing 40% of their season
against the 350th worst SOS killed their chances of getting an at-large NCAA
Ken"according to BYU fans, Utah can't compete with the rest
of the Pac 12"Utah is 1-19 on the road since joining the PAC.
What more proof do you need?
Troytown,I'll cite you one example of a team ranked 124 or
higher getting an at large when you can prove the RPI mid-season means
anything?Or when you can tell us why byu was never ranked this year
even with a higher "ranking" RPI than Duke, Louisville, Kentucky, and
Michigan State?And still no word on what byu's conference(60%
of the year) SOS is huh? Too funny!
killarney,How does it feel that your team got destroyed by a team
that is 1-19 on the road in the Pac 12?We can't compete in the
Pac 12. And your team can't compete with us. but congrats on
the amazing heights of byu basketball. byu over the last 5 years experienced
the best of byu basketball in 30 years. The height of byu basketball in 30
years, including a player of the year, culminated in a single sweet 16
appearance and a losing 3-4 record in the tournament for that player of the
year.What a powerhouse program!
Chris B"I'll cite you one example of a team ranked 124 or
higher getting an at large when you can prove the RPI mid-season means
anything?"The #124 mid-season ranking means everything if you
don't improve. With 8 of your 12 remaining PAC games against upper division
PAC foes, including 7 road games, the prospects of Utah even cracking the RPI
Top 100 are slim. Utah might get to 20 wins, with almost half coming against
Bottom 100 or non-Div 1 teams, but that's not going to move Utah's
ranking needle much.----------"How does it feel that
your team got destroyed by a team that is 1-19 on the road in the Pac
12?"Like a road upset to an inferior team would feel to any
superior team.It still doesn't prove that Utah could beat BYU
or any team in the PAC on the road.The Utes have NEVER beaten BYU in
the Marriott Center during the Dave Rose era.
Chris BBYU's overall SOS is 0.62 (#5 non-conf, #148 conf)Utah's overall SOS is 0.43 (#350 non-conf, #103 conf)BYU is
ranked #40, with 13 wins (only 2 versus bottom 100 or non-Div 1 teams)Utah
is ranked #124, with 14 wins (9 versus bottom 100 or non-Div 1 teams)Utah's overall SOS is exactly the same as IPFW's overall SOS.Too funny!
CBWe can't compete in the Pac 12. - TRUE11-31 in
the PAC; 1-19 on the roadAnd your team can't compete with us. -
utterly FALSE!BYU has beaten Utah 11 of the last 13, 12 of 16 during
the Dave Rose era, 129-126 overallDave Rose eraAverage score
- BYU 72 Utah 65Double-digit wins - BYU 8 Utah 220+ point wins - BYU
3 Utah 0
"Utah's overall SOS is exactly the same as IPFW's overall
Skywalker,Where do you get the conference strength of schedule
rankings? And before you get all defensive like byu fans do, its
just a simple question. I truly don't know where such information is. Thanks in advance
I thought byu fans were in love with Sagarin rankings?Interesting
that those have byu 42, Utah 62 right now. More flip flopping from byu fans.
Vs top 25 Sagarin teams Utah is 1-0 and 2-1 against top 50 teamsbyu is 0-3 against top 25 Sagarin teams and 2-4 against top 50 teams.So Utah has as many top 50 wins in 3 games as byu does in 6.And remember, Utah as a lot more top 50 opponents on the remaining schedule
than the WCC does.
When Utah has a bad year, we still win a handful of games.When byu
has a bad year, byu goes 1-21When byu has the best season in 30
years, byu goes to the sweet 16 and no furtherWhen Utah has a great
year, we win a final four game and play in the national title.Every
team has bad years, even a bad decade. I'll gladly take
Utah's ceiling and Utah's low years over byu's single sweet 16
ceiling in 30 years any day
It should be noted that Arizona isn't just any ranked team, they're
undefeated/ranked #1 and we play against them twice.Anybody
clamoring over us being winless on the road after 3 total needs to hold-off
'til we've played out our remaining games....Furthermore, per the
momentary measuring-stick of a team's "worth" down there in provo,
Current RPI Rankings, byu has two road losses worse than our one bad road loss
and both by significantly wider-margins....Just simply compare WAZZU's to
both LMU's/Pepperdine's....SMC also lost to SCU at home....BSU/SMC
have virtually identical rankings.Colorado would currently be
undefeated in conference play, were Dinwiddie not lost....Even w/him, they
needed OT to beat WAZZU in Pullman, which is widely known as a difficult place
to win, no matter how good/bad they happen to be....Certainly more difficult
than the LMU/Pepperdine H.S. Gyms.UCLA is unranked because we
knocked them out....They've hovered around #25 all season long and will
certainly return....Conversely, the ultra-weak wcc has 1 ranked #21 in 1
poll....When did byu last beat a team ranked when they played?Finally, 81-64.
It's funny, people are bringing up the loss of Dinwiddie to excuse
Colorado's losses. Yet no BYU hater will consider the loss of Davies as a
hindrance to BYU going further in the tournament a couple of seasons ago.Fact is, the chances of any team winning a championship in basketball
after losing a key player are slim-to-none. So what.RPI-vs Sagarin:
Sagarin ratings mean a whole lot more in football than they do in basketball.
I've never even heard of an RPI for basketball. So, why do BYU fans talk
about RPI during basketball and Sagarin ratings for football. Well, duh.
"Where do you get the conference strength of schedule rankings?"ESPN RPI RankingsSOS = overall SOS - BYU(0.62),
Utah(0.43)NCSS = non-conf SOS - BYU(#5), Utah(#350)CFSS = conf SOS -
BYU(#148), Utah(#103)RPI is used by the NCAA tournament selection
committee; Sagarin is not.There's nothing wrong with Sagarin,
but, if you're talking NCAA tournament prospects, RPI is much more
relevant.Most "bracketologists" still have BYU in the mix;
none have Utah.
well, Ute fans, your teams are not ranked as highly as BYU again in both
Basketball and Football….so cool to have the Utes prove their standing in
all sports as no more than a spoiler. How many times you say Stanford and BYU
when you justifying Whittingham as a coach? Just keep your eye on
the RPI and check the extended power rankings in football….it really puts
it all in perspective. Good thing you willing to play and lose on
Sunday…it makes you very appealing to the PAC12.
@AZUTE uhh no colorado would not still be undefeated had hey had
dinwiddie. Washington was all over them the whole game and kept askia booker
AZUTE1Despite your "detailed RPI analysis", you failed to
mention the most salient detail:Current RPI Rankings#40
@ Ken LeeSagarin's final football rankings:34 -
Utah35 - BYU41 - Utah State
the WCC is the 10th best conference in college basketball based on Sagarin
Ratings...PAC 12 is #3 behind BIG 10 and BIG 12...The end...
RPI is a two-edged sword. Utah's worst loss was to RPI #119 Wazzu, while
BYU's worst loss was to RPI #159 Loyola Marymount. Too bad the
coug's RPI can't make 3's and play defense.
The only arguement that is valid over who is a better team is when they play.
Utah won, as a BYU fan I was disgusted. But that's the case. HOWEVER, BYU
has a MUCH better chance at an at large bid and everyone knows it. Even Utah
Valley University has a better shot than Utah. Winning the conference is the
best way to get a bid. Utah will be far far far from that.
sportsfanforlife--"@AZUTE uhh no colorado would not
still be undefeated had hey had dinwiddie. Washington was all over them the
whole game and kept askia booker almost scoreless."Dinwiddie is
by far-and-away CU's best player and, as good as he is on O, he's
significantly more valuable on D/generally orchestrating their overall game.FYI--CU was ahead by 3 when he went down, then UW outscored them by 20
Both BYU and Utah have a lot of work to do before either can think about the
NCAA tournament. How about both teams focus on winning their next game and
getting better. If they focus on anything else, they're bound to lose more
games, which will certainly keep them for any meaningful post season play.
Again, if RPI was a true equivalent to ranking, why wasn't byu ranked a
month ago when they had a higher RPI than teams that were ranked such as Duke,
Lousville, Kentucky, and North Carolina?byu fans talking strength of
schedule and rpi from day 1 of the season as they've done is like a WAC
team mocking the SEC in football after SEC teams play WAC nobodies and WAC
nobodies play SEC teams. Ya, those WAC nobodies will have great strength of
schedules(which would increase the RPI equivalent) and the SEC teams would have
terrible strength of schedules. In basketball, conference play is
really just getting going, meaning the RPI's of teams in real confernences
will start to increase and play much harder schedules overall(just like the SEC
in football) even if they play Wcc nobodies in preseason play. Meanwhile, WCC
nobodies have to try and play some big boys early on(like WAC nobodies playing
SEC teams early on) since the WCC is a very poor conference compared to the big
boy conferences.ESPN says Pac 12 is 4th best conference.wcc?
11th.Big big difference
Unlike U, BYU isn't forced to use conference affiliation as a crutch
because U have absolutely no accomplishments of your own to brag about.9-18 in football, only ONE bowl game in THREE seasons13-31 in
basketball, ZERO post season appearancesAfraid to play Utah State
and Weber State in basketball. Forced to play the 2nd worst non-conference
schedule in the country just to have a chance to have your first winning season
since 2009.LOSERS in 9 of your last 11 games versus BYU; only 4 wins
in 16 games during the Dave Rose era.#38 BYU > #122 Utah
Vitamin B12 has a pointThe WCC is so bad, that the Utes would be
ranked 7th, right behind Pepperdine, if Utah was in the WCC, instead of their
current 12th in the PAC.Meanwhile, the PAC is so good, that BYU
would only be ranked 6th, right behind California, if BYU was in the PAC,
instead of their current 2nd in the WCC.
ESPN says BYU's overall SOS is .62, Utah's is only .43.Big, big difference.ESPN says BYU's RPI is #38, Utah's
is only #122.Even bigger difference, considering teams with #38 RPI
almost always make it into the NCAAs, while teams with #122 RPI NEVER get an
@Ken Lee "well, Ute fans, your teams are not ranked as highly as BYU again
in both Basketball and Football. Just keep your eye on the RPI and check the
extended power rankings in football.Ken, I'm keeping my eye on
the football power ranking in Sagarin. Here's what they say:Utah 34BYU 35Utah's best win #5 StanfordBYU's best win #37 Ga. TeachUtah's worst loss #40
Washington StateBYU's worst loss #106 VirginiaUtah 20BYU 13
@ True BlueDave Rose eraAverage score - BYU 72 Utah 65Double-digit wins - BYU 8 Utah 220+ point wins - BYU 3 Utah 0Now lets apply that logic to Football:Bronco Era 3-6Average score
- BYU 20 Utah 30Double-digit wins - BYU 0 Utah 220+ point wins - BYU
0 Utah 2
U 902013 Final BCS Standings#40 Brigham Young#54 UtahCBSSports Final Rankings#51 BYU#71 UtahMassey
Final Rankings#36 BYU#37 UtahColley Final Rankings#39 BYU#60 UtahCollege Football Ranking Composite (114
Rankings)#33 BYU#51 UtahDespite the best/worst spin, the
vast majority of college football ranking experts ranked BYU higher than Utah.
BracketologyOf the 51 brackets in The 2014 Bracket Matrix, 39 have
have been updated since Saturday and BYU is included in the field of 68 by 14 of
those brackets - average seed 11.36.The other Utah schools receiving
votes:Utah Valley (WAC) - included in 23 brackets - average seed
15.30Weber State (Big Sky) - included in 2 brackets - average seed 16.00
scenic viewNo mention of the 122nd RPI Utes in any of those
Rockwell,There's no spinning the scoreboard... unless you want
to try.Trust the experts or the scoreboard... your choice.
U 90Continuing your themeTop 15 FinishesBronco
3Kyle 1Top 25 FinishesBronco 5Kyle 3AP
Top 25 Finishes (every Utah fan's favorite poll)Bronco 4Kyle
211+ Win SeasonsBronco 3Kyle 110+ Win
SeasonsBronco 5Kyle 3Bowl GamesBronco 9Kyle
7Conference ChampionshipsBronco 2Kyle 1Ranked Higher in SagarinBronco 5Kyle 4Bronco has had
more 11+ win seasons in 9 seasons, than Utah has had in 120 seasons
U 90There's also no spinning overall results.Utah
had scoreboard. Stanford played in the Rose Bowl.Texas A&M had
scoreboard. Alabama won the national championship.Scoreboard only
proves who was better for one game on one particular day.Overall
results prove superiority for an entire season.
Marked it Down"Utah had scoreboard. Stanford played in the Rose
Bowl."Ute Logic 101Don't be too surprised when
the kids on the hill start claiming that Utah was the best team in the PAC in
2013; after all, even though the hapless Utes only won two conference games,
they beat the conference champions, proving that Utah was the best team in the
talkin sports:You merely speculate on what Ute fans
'might' say. However, we already know that during these
'13-'14 seasons y fans have had to tie themselves up in a Sagarin/RPI
knot to make themselves feel better about 20-13 and 81-64.Coug Logic
Snack,The discussion was never about the bronco era. You seem to
use that same bronco era copy and paste whenever you have no response to a
legitimate point. That point is... if BYU was so much better than Utah in
'13 why did they lose on their home field (again) with their best WR and LB
in team history?You have now lost in both football and basketball.
Utah owns the Deseret Duel by an enormous margin. But according to Y fans BYU
is still better.... regardless of the scoreboard. Now, start spinning.
@AZUTEHe may be their best player but askia booker is by far their
BEST offensive player, check the numbers. Dinwiddie hadnt been effective on
offense in the games leading up to the UW game anyways. What i really think is
funny is that you think one player would have stopped a TEAM from outscoring
his team by 20 pts. UW was playing better in that game from start to finish.
Dont get me wrong, dinwiddie is a GREAT talent but there was nothing he would
have been able to do to stop washington from getting as hot as they did.
Nice couple of road wins for BYU. Any road win is a good win.@
UteanymousUtah's BPI is #43 and BYU's is #51. BPI
factor's into the bids. Better conferences, have better schedules, and
receive more tournament bids. Also, I don't recall NCAA tournament bids
every being let in January.
@Chris Bcheck the rankings again, Zona is ranked and rightfully so,
Colorado, not so much. the Pac is mediocre.