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Longtime friend says Syracuse mother in murder-suicide battled depression

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  • Coolio SLC, UT
    Jan. 16, 2014 11:34 p.m.

    It's hard to sympathize with someone who shoots and kills two innocent children. The article tries to evoke sympathy, but it's not happening with me. I feel about as much sympathy as I did for the Sandy Hook shooter. Which is none. What's the difference?

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Jan. 16, 2014 11:36 p.m.

    Sad story...

    We need to do more to help the mentally ill. We need to do more to protect children. We need to do more to keep guns out of the hands of those who are mentally ill.

  • rvalens2 Burley, ID
    Jan. 17, 2014 4:00 a.m.

    "Why didn't you call up your family and talk to them? What was going on, honey, that you thought you had to do this alone?" - Pegi Butler

    Regrettably, Kyler may not have felt she had anyone in her family that she could turn to for help or counsel. We all need someone who will listen to us when we are down and who can be a shoulder to cry on. It's just unfortunate that in Kyler's time of need, she didn't pick up the phone and call Pegi to talk about things. One conversation, could have changed the outcome.

    Sadly, we are all so preoccupied with our own lives that at times we don't notice those around us who are hurting. Lift your head up once in awhile folks and see if there isn't someone close by that needs a little help; whether they are family or not.

    One kind word or act can make all the difference.

  • Lilalips Attleboro, MA
    Jan. 17, 2014 5:58 a.m.

    I understand the whole depression/suicide thing. But how do you take your children? My heart goes out to the extended family of the children especially the father of the children who has lost his children for the rest of his life. Suicide is such a permanent solution to temporary problems. Depression has so many faucets to it. I lost a step brother at age 16 to suicide. It was hard to see on the outside. There were internal and external factors. There was a family history of mental instability and familial abuse both verbally and physically. Part of the solution is talking about it and trying to show a love that can reach through to people who are enveloped in darkness.

  • RobertC SLC, Utah
    Jan. 17, 2014 6:47 a.m.

    I liked the article but the accompanying "fashion Photo shoot" pics are disturbingly Incongruent.

  • I know it. I Live it. I Love it. Provo, UT
    Jan. 17, 2014 7:36 a.m.

    Children aside, I once heard someone say that suicide is one of the most selfish things anyone could ever do; although I've never quite been sure about the expression. Suicide tends to have varied & disguised motives. And if they all boiled down to one common denominator, I'm not sure selfishness adequately describes each case.

    I used to feel I could never accomplish anything. It wasn't until I stopped focusing on that thought and focused on the hope that I could. That hope strengthened into belief, then faith. I now know how to exercise that faith into action.

    Consider someone having an overwhelming sense of depression, fear, or other things they feel they cannot escape. Feeling there is no alternative, no possible way out... this surely doesn't help.

    Perhaps it would help people not focus on feelings of problems being inescapable and refocus on the fact that help and hope exist- that the two are waiting for us to reach out and grab them (then build that belief from there). I'm not saying that solves this for everyone, but I wonder if it would help others as it helped me in a different scenario.

  • ImABeliever Provo, UT
    Jan. 17, 2014 7:58 a.m.

    As a former 1st Counselor in a Young Men's Presidency and Young Men's President at the
    Utah State Hospital; I seen mentally ill young men (ages 12-18)first hand. The majority of the
    Young Men were wards of the State of Utah and most of the time mental illness is a result of abuse; sexual, physical, verbal, drug and alcohol.
    I would be real careful to judge. As I always say,"While you were busy judging others,
    you left your closet door open and your skeletons fell out."

  • Cinci Man FT MITCHELL, KY
    Jan. 17, 2014 8:04 a.m.

    I am happy to leave judgement to God. This is so tragic. It would be wonderful if we could look into the minds of the mentally ill. Perhaps many more lives can be saved if we could. But I have to remember that this life is only part of living. The children are not dead. Their mother is not dead. They have been tragically taken from this mortal existence. And I'm confident that in an eternal perspective, this premature transfer from this life to the next will receive the love, mercy, and justice that only God can grant. Our understanding will come later. None of us justify what she did. But we can always remember the good in her and rest assured that God will heal her troubled soul. May God grant peace to those who remain behind in this difficult mortality. Thanks to all who are friends of those who struggle to find peace in their lives.

  • ca2000 West Wendover, NV
    Jan. 17, 2014 8:33 a.m.

    @rvalens2: "Sadly, we are all so preoccupied with our own lives that at times we don't notice those around us who are hurting. Lift your head up once in awhile folks and see if there isn't someone close by that needs a little help; whether they are family or not.
    One kind word or act can make all the difference."

    This is so so true. I have a good friend at work I can confide in (both of us male), and we often talk about challenges in life. We talked about finances and retirement the other day, and he mentioned something to his wife about it. Her response: why do you do that? Why do you get involved. AND WHY DO YOU EVEN CARE?
    This last comment really hurt. I don't even think he realized how hard that hit me, and I will probably never say anything.

    I feel so sorry for this Syracuse mother and her daughters; one kind word or act could have made all the difference.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 17, 2014 8:48 a.m.

    It might have be an adverse reaction to meds....

    The FDA requires black-label warning label on Anti-Depressants that they may increase the risk of violence and suicidal behaviors...

    R.I.P.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 17, 2014 9:08 a.m.

    Cinci Man said it perfectly. Thank you.

  • Christmas Carole LAS CRUCES, NM
    Jan. 17, 2014 9:19 a.m.

    @LDS Liberal
    Have you ever been in a deep black hole and COMPLETELY unable to create or see a way up and out? Have you ever served, and thought of others frequently and still cry often seemingly without control? Have you ever felt you were in a room without windows or doors and NO way to get out of that room?

    I'm not saying meds are the ONLY answer, BUT I AM saying that: Yes, on occasion there MIGHT be a chance of the statement posted, BUT in the final analysis meds CAN and DO, properly prescribed and taken, HELP enormously. A kind, loving, Heavenly Father blessed us with the knowledge and we are given the opportunity and blessings of doing all we can to help ourselves.

    I have found that there is a stigma and negative attitude prevalent in Utah concerning antidepressants that can SADLY influence someone who may really need them to not get them...

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 17, 2014 9:55 a.m.

    Christmas Carole

    LAS CRUCES, NM

    @LDS Liberal
    Have you ever been in a deep black hole and COMPLETELY unable to create or see a way up and out?

    ==========

    Um yes,
    and I've been hospitalized twice for nearly doing this same thing --

    Final Answer -- it was not me at all, but an adverse reaction to the meds.

    BTW --
    I've also attended 4 funerals that ended in this same tragic way.
    Common denominator -- meds.

    Hence that label.

  • Hunam Layton, UT
    Jan. 17, 2014 9:57 a.m.

    It's easy to point the finger and wonder who dropped the ball, but honestly, I know of few people equipped to deal constructively with mental illness issues. It is a HUGE drain on the personal resources of friends and family. There's the constant consoling. Both Sympathy and empathy often fall upon a dead mind, and no matter how much time you spend, or money, or attention you give, it's never enough. The smallest thing can set off a caustic personality, and honestly no one knows what can or ought to be done. You try to respect their wishes, give them space, or reach out and intervene, and it is soul-wrenchingly difficult.

    Further there are the pretenders out there who claim depression, or to be bipolar, or to have some other mental disability that simply don't have one, clogging the lines with their narcissistic need to be the center of attention or cast as a victim to manipulate others.

    This is a real tragedy, and those poor kids are probably not the only victims of this untreated mental disorder.

  • Anonyme Orem, UT
    Jan. 17, 2014 9:58 a.m.

    LDS Liberal, that black box warning also states that there is no evidence of an increased risk of suicide for adults older than 24 years of age. This is not the place for your speculations about the safety of antidepressants.

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    Jan. 17, 2014 10:57 a.m.

    Never can understand why people who commit suicide have to take someone with them, just can't understand it. So tragic and sad for these two beautiful innocent girls who's lives were cut short. God is the ultimate judge.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 17, 2014 11:38 a.m.

    We have to be ready to intervene when we suspect something is wrong. I missed such a chance, a close friend killed himself. I will always regret not going to talk with him.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 17, 2014 11:42 a.m.

    @Anonyme
    Orem, UT

    Care to give a good solid explanation for the increase of these sad situations then?

    "No one" seems to be able to explain it,
    but we have the pattern,
    the warning is obvious,
    it only effects 3% of the general population,
    and pharmaceutical companies settle out of court for it all the time for it.

    If you are LDS,
    try reading the beginning of D&C 89 {Word of Wisdom]

    4. Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

    It's kept secret,
    and there is a $Trillion at sake.

    But go ahead and keep thinking it's about Coke-a-Cola and chewing tobacco all you wish.
    I know differently.

  • washcomom Beaverton, OR
    Jan. 17, 2014 11:51 a.m.

    Depression does not have an easy fix. Medication, exercise, diet, environment, community, family, history all have something that can connect with it, but it takes so much effort to circumvent those feelings. It gets to be so tiring trying to fight all the time.
    It's just sad that two little girls were taken at the same time. Now they are angels in heaven.

  • Dan Bishop Lehi, UT
    Jan. 17, 2014 12:31 p.m.

    I have felt this adverse reaction to Prosac. It is no laughing matter. These drugs can kill you. if you are taking them and you start feeling suicidal, stop immediately and call the doctor of go to the emergency room. You think it can not happen to you, but it can.

  • Gasman Yuma, AZ
    Jan. 17, 2014 12:41 p.m.

    @ LDS Liberal

    People have been doing these things for years. Possibly more now than before, possible the media gies more coverage to these tragic events.

    Depression is horrible as you know, if what you say is correct. I suffer MDD and am suicidal,the meds are what have kept me alive and given me a decent quality of life. Hopefully, some day I'll get off them. It takes a patient Dr. and time to find the right combination.

    Yes, I too am LDS and believe that God gives us knowledge and technology to help with these situations. I recall Elder Holland speaking on this subject. Blessings alone did nothing for me. Doing what I could, and then receiving blessings has made all the difference in the world.

    We are all different, but bring on the conspiracy theories. Remember, when these evil drug corporations have killed us all off, they have no one left to make a profit from.

  • Anonyme Orem, UT
    Jan. 17, 2014 1:51 p.m.

    LDS Liberal said, “Care to give a good solid explanation for the increase of these sad situations then?” Do you care to give any reliable data to prove that a) “sad situations” are increasing and b) this situation was the result of an adverse reaction to an antidepressant? I'll save you some time with the latter: no, you can't and it's none of our business anyway.

    “The warning is obvious.” Are you referring to the black box warning? Because it also says that there is no evidence of an increased risk of suicide for antidepressant use in adults older than 24 years of age. Why aren't you using that as support for your arguments? The same science which informed the decision to create the warning for increased risk of suicide in children and young adults also informed the information about no increased risk in adults. You don't get to cherry-pick which part of the warning you believe.

    “It only effects 3% of the population.” What is “it,” and where are you getting that number?

  • Christmas Carole LAS CRUCES, NM
    Jan. 17, 2014 2:06 p.m.

    @Gasman
    AMEN!I too appreciated Elder Hollands talk MUCH!

    @LDS Liberal
    Hon, I'm not saying meds are for everyone...I AM saying that we ALL have diff body chemistry and that with close medical supervision the best med can be found. If all those you knew(and I'm very sorry for your loses) were on meds then I would strongly speculate that there were preexisting symptoms...therefore some intervention was needed. Yes, the WRONG med can have an adverse effect. I GUARANTEE that NO intervention is worse, by far, than trying to find a help, including meds. I have familial genetic predisposition to depression. Many of my forefathers self medicated....WITH ALCOHOL!! I appreciate GREATLY being able to live a normal life with meds and am very grateful I live in a time when they are available...

  • Anonyme Orem, UT
    Jan. 17, 2014 2:08 p.m.

    LDS Liberal, I've read D&C 89. I've also read more recent LDS teachings about health and medicine. From a 2005 Ensign article entitled “Myths about Mental Illness” by Elder Alexander B. Morrison: “During the past 40 years numerous medications have been developed by the multinational pharmaceutical industry. These products have proven of inestimable worth to millions.”

    From a March 1990 Ensign article: “Several types of antidepressant medications have proven helpful and can be obtained through medical consultation. These forms of medication do not typically produce dependencies and can be life-saving drugs to some people.”

    From the Church's Missionary Preparation Manual: If a person is suffering or has suffered with an emotional illness (such as depression, anxiety, or obsessive compulsive behavior), then preparing for a mission may include seeking professional treatment and perhaps medication. Elder Richard G. Scott of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles counseled: “Missionary work is extremely demanding. If you have emotional challenges that can be stabilized to meet the rigors of a full-time mission, you can be called. It is vital that you continue to use your medication during your mission or until competent medical authority counsels otherwise.”

  • Serious Rexburg, ID
    Jan. 17, 2014 2:53 p.m.

    I have take a daily antidepressant for about 2.5 years and it has been life changing for the better!

  • SuziQ Springville, UT
    Jan. 17, 2014 5:20 p.m.

    hink that the pictures tell the troubling story of why tragedies like this occur. The face to the world and even close friends looks happy, but somewhere inside there is another feeling going on that is unexpressed to others and hidden from everyone's view. The only way to try to prevent these tragedies is for people to start dealing with feelings in a better way. First, we need to acknowledge that mental illnesses need to be taken seriously and not judged. This might help those who struggle reach out for help. Second, we need to be aware of those around us who may struggle and try to help them deal with their feelings and thoughts in a productive way. This may work for some and not others. Third, you may need to encourage someone to turn to professional help. Fourth, maybe we as a society need to teach our children how to deal with stress and disappointment a little better so they aren't so fragile emotionally and easily depressed. We all need to dig a little deeper and stop glossing over the surface. Maybe that will help some off the edge and onto safer ground.

  • BU52 Provo, ut
    Jan. 18, 2014 8:54 a.m.

    There is a lot of "magic thinking" that goes on in the mind of the mentally distressed. Trying to figure out the reasons after the fact is all just speculation.