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Mike Sorensen: Bowl season has proved that SEC, Pac-12 were country's best conferences this year

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  • DrTPhD Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 5, 2014 7:04 p.m.

    Mike, how can you say USU was best team in the state? That distinction clearly goes to Utah who beat head to head USU, Weber State, and BYU. I guess head to head doesn't count for much.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    Jan. 5, 2014 7:11 p.m.

    Frankly, outside of the Rose Bowl, it was a mediocre Bowl line up for the PAC-12.

    Admittedly, with the playoff starting next year, the bowl season will be even more meaningless than it is now, but the PAC-12 bowl affiliations are pretty lame. Three games where the opponent is required to come from the Mt West; and two games where the opponent is required to come from the ACC.

    The higher tier bowls include two match ups with the Big 12 and of course the Rose Bowl. But only one of those games included a Top 25 opponent.

    Unfortunately, the PAC-12 won only one of those three games.

    Surprisingly, the PAC-12 only played two ranked opponents in their 9 bowl games and won only one of those (Fresno St.). It's not a great bowl season when Utah State had as many bowl wins over ranked opponents as did the entire conference.

    In the last year of the BCS, the PAC-12 didn't beat a single ranked BCS school in a bowl game. Improvement is needed in both bowl affiliations and performance.

  • OHBU Columbus, OH
    Jan. 5, 2014 8:08 p.m.

    Win/loss record is a terrible way to evaluate a conference's strength. The PAC plays a pretty weak schedule outside the Rose,meanwhile the Big Ten plays the SEC 3 times, the champion of the PAC and the second-best team in the ACC. In fact, they don't play any bowls against a program that's not in a major conference. I'm not saying the Big Ten was better than the PAC this year, I actually think they were a shade worse, but they played a MUCH more difficult slate. It's disingenuous (at best) to simply label them the worst conference because of their poor bowl record.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 5, 2014 8:41 p.m.

    "Improvement is needed in both bowl affiliations."
    Already happening.
    Next year, the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl will match a PAC12 team against a Big10 team instead of against a mid-major independent.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 5, 2014 8:53 p.m.

    "Improvement is needed in both bowl affiliations."
    PAC is also dropping the New Mexico Bowl and moving the Kraft Bowl up since it is moving to the new 49er stadium and getting a Big10 opponent.

    1. Rose/playoff
    2. Alamo vs B12
    3. Holiday vs B10
    4. Kraft vs Big10
    5. Sun vs ACC
    6. Las Vegas vs MWC
    7. Buffalo Wild Wings vs B12

  • UteMiguel Go Utes, CA
    Jan. 5, 2014 9:02 p.m.

    USU lost to Utah and lost badly to BYU. But you say they are the best team in the state. Why do they even play the games? We could just rank each team's recruiting class and determine a national championship without ever playing a game. Would free up more time for raking leaves, I guess.

  • PAC12Fan South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 5, 2014 9:10 p.m.

    I would prefer all BCS teams play each other. There is very little incentive or excitement for a team that played a brutal schedule to be awarded a game against a team that got fat on wins against weak opponents. I'm sure USC was ecstatic to play Fresno. I'm sure Washington was pumped up to play BYU. Vanderbilt can't be happy about playing Houston. The bigger crowds were the games with two BCS schools involved.

    Non BCS schools play weak schedules and deserve to play the best of the non BCS schools.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Jan. 5, 2014 9:39 p.m.

    Wow, read all the comments about what's wrong with the bowls from fans of a team that hasn't been bowl eligible for 2 years and hasn't won 10 conference games total in three years. That really shows relevancy doesn't it? And scream about beating USU (who really beat themselves on a couple of dumb penalties), running up the score on Weber State while criticizing everyone else for their cupcake opponents, and squealing with delight about another close victory over their former rival. Never mind the whole season of work, just focus on those games and the fluke win over Stanford, who was not really a #5 team (#5 teams don't lose 3 times, once to an inferior conference door mat).

    Very entertaining indeed.

    It makes one wonder what the angst will be next year if there's yet another bowl-less season.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    Jan. 5, 2014 10:23 p.m.

    Thanks SoonerUte. The Holiday Bowl had a Big-12 team this year, so not sure if the Big10 is an upgrade, especially since the Holiday Bowl gets the third pick out of the PAC-12 but only the 4th pick out of the Big 10. That said, hopefully it will allow the PAC-12 not to have to repeat having one of its division winners play the 6th place team in the Big-12.

    The PAC-12 had two teams in the top 5 for much of the year, yet there were ten teams in the BCS bowls this year, and the PAC-12 got only one on those slots.

    The PAC-12 may have indeed been the 2nd best conference this year but FOUR conferences had two teams in BCS games this year and the PAC-12 wasn't one of them. And if the 4 team playoff had started this year, the PAC-12 would have been shut out.

    The SEC EXPECTS to have two teams in the playoff every year. The only way to make sure the PAC-12 is fairly represented in the playoff and in major bowls is to play and beat SEC teams.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    Jan. 5, 2014 10:48 p.m.

    More to my point, how does this happen:

    #10 ranked Oregon plays unranked Texas
    #14 ranked ASU plays unranked Texas Tech
    #17 ranked UCLA plays unranked Va Tech

    yet similarly ranked teams from "lesser" conferences all get HIGHER ranked opponents

    #12 Clemson plays #7 OSU in a BCS game
    #13 Oklahoma State plays #8 Missouri
    #19 Wisconsin plays #9 South Carolina

    It's impossible to improve the reputation of a league when your best teams aren't put in a situation where they can play and beat ranked opponents. It's frustrating.

  • Rational Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 5, 2014 10:49 p.m.

    @let's roll

    You just described why it is a four team playoff rather than an eight. With four teams, the SEC has a 50/50 chance. With eight, they'd have a 25%, and the SEC never plays unless it can stack the deck.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    Jan. 5, 2014 10:56 p.m.

    @ Rational

    Your comment would be funnier, if it weren't so true. Spot on my friend.

  • Rockarolla West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 1:07 a.m.

    Hate to say it but Sooner Ute is right. If BYU could have gotten to 10 or 11 wins then the pac 12 matchup this year would have been intriguing. But with the Coogs sub-par play it was agony to watch.

  • Max Charlotte, NC
    Jan. 6, 2014 6:57 a.m.

    Utah proved they were the best in the state on the field. Also, if the PAC 12 really is the second strongest conference, we can see how they could be the best in the state and still not qualify for a bowl game.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2014 7:07 a.m.

    @toosmartforyou

    Wow, read all the comments about what's wrong with the bowls from fans of a team that hasn't been bowl eligible for 2 years and hasn't won 10 conference games total in three years. That really shows relevancy doesn't it?

    -------------

    Speaking of relevancy...

    BYU is 2-5 (28%) vs PAC-12 teams over same period.
    Utah is 9-18 (33%).

    Since September 29, 2007 Utah is 45-6 (88%) against non-Big 5 league teams. All SIX loses were to ranked teams.

    Only people living in a fantasy world would think Utah would struggle making a bowl playing BYU's schedule.

  • techpubs Sioux City, IA
    Jan. 6, 2014 7:54 a.m.

    Because the SEC had at least 7 teams rated in the top 25 before they played any conference games it wasn't hard for those teams to remain rated if they lost to each other. And usually being placed in a bowl game against an opponent that is considered an easy win for them guarantees that they can state their superiority.
    Remember that #23 Georgia was beaten by unranked Nebraska and #14 LSU only beat unranked Iowa by 1 score. # 8 South Carolina beat # 19 Wisconsin by 2 scores but might not have fared as well against #7 Ohio State. Also Bama who was proclaimed to be the best in the Nation and the equal of an NFL team lost to #11 Oklahoma.

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 7:55 a.m.

    I agree with Pac 12 Fan,

    All power conference teams should just stop playing non power conference teams, regular season and bowl season. College football doesn't need the smaller conferences/teams and they don't add value.

    If you just look at the Pac 12's record against the MWC and quasi-mwc byu this year of 14-1 you will see just how big of a gap there is between the Pac 12 and the mwc.

    No Pac 12 team gets excited about playing down to a lesser conference in a bowl game, and frankly its just as bad doing so in the regular season.

    I think with the start of the playoffs and there will be added pressure for strength of schedule, hopefully we see the power conferences just cut all ties with the smaller conferences.

    Go Utes

    Proud Pac 12 member!

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 8:26 a.m.

    All bowls save tonight's national championship game ARE LESSER BOWLS. Other than the fans of the given teams playing in such and such bowl, no one will remember what happened outside of that one game five years from now.

    If Chris B. has his way and the "big boys" don't schedule teams outside of the top tier conferences Utah likely will never make a bowl again. Utah can't get six wins without playing "lesser teams." Nothing restrains Utah or any team from doing this except for common sense. Utah schedules Weber state, SUU and Idaho State because they need a win, a home game and a lower risk game for injuries. All teams do this. Its taken a great deal of courage for Utah to schedule teams like USU, Fresno State and BYU, all teams that have beaten Utah in the past and are capable of doing so in the future.

  • KimmyP Granstville, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 8:30 a.m.

    @ let's roll,

    Along with the passive aggressive diatribe detailing the futility of PAC 12 teams in their bowl match ups, tell us again, how did the teams in BYU's conference stack up for this bowl season....

    And, I suppose some of the blame for the PAC 12's line up of "lackluster" bowl games stems from the fact Washington had to play some team from down south.

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 8:54 a.m.

    Mike I disagree on two points that the PAC 12
    Is the 2nd best conference & Utah State is the
    States best. Stanford & Oregon were the only
    Teams that played ranked opponents. Texas
    was drilled by BYU & was losing its coach.
    Michigan State beat Stanford. USU played a
    lousy one skilled player N Illinois. SEC is twice as
    good as PAC 12 & Utah best team in state.

  • NotAnRorD American Fork, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 8:58 a.m.

    I agree with PAC12Fan and Christopher B:
    "There is very little incentive or excitement for a team that played a brutal schedule to be awarded a game against a team that got fat on wins against weak opponents ...Non BCS schools play weak schedules and deserve to play the best of the non BCS schools." and, "No Pac 12 team gets excited about playing down to a lesser conference in a bowl game"

    Validates what BCS conferences said against TCU, Boise State and Utah - their so called "BCS Busts" were exactly that - a bust. Their records since being invited, for monetary reasons only (see the stellar Colorado record as proof), have proven how inferior their teams and competition were at the time. College football has changed since the mid '90's - making the more superior conferences truly more superior. Sports as a business overall has accelerated that change - the have's have more, and can do more with it. They only invite a few others to their party because they can have more with their TV deals. Otherwise, Colorado would be kicked down to the MAC where it belongs.

  • SLCguy Murray, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:01 a.m.

    You realize of course that Vegas had EVERY PAC12 Bowl team favored going into their game right?

    So you could actually argue (quite successfully) that the PAC12 under performed by 3 games.

    The worst loss was the BCS bell cow Stanford losing THEIR game. When your 'best' gets beaten, it's hard to justify that your league was so tough.

    FWIW I absolutely think the PAC12 is the hardest conference to play in, due to all the different kinds of offensive systems currently used within the league...... but to say they're the 'best' is a stretch

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:14 a.m.

    "The SEC EXPECTS to have two teams in the playoff every year."
    Yes, that's part of what Bob Stoops calls the "SEC propaganda". I think he made his case by beating Alabama with an OU squad that maybe shouldn't have been in a BCS bowl.
    The hope for the rest of us is that the playoff participants are decided by a committee, so rather than take FSU, Auburn, Alabama, MSU (BCS rank), they pass on Alabama in favor of someone else.

    "The only way to make sure the PAC-12 is fairly represented in the playoff and in major bowls is to play and beat SEC teams."
    Definitely. Maybe the Holiday or Kraft bowl should be an SEC opponent. Or get a PAC team into an east coast bowl.

    "#13 Oklahoma State plays #8 Missouri"
    Jerry Jones is beating the Fiesta Bowl in match ups. If the BCS remained, I think the Cotton Bowl would jump the Fiesta on the elite bowl list.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:36 a.m.

    Uteology

    Bronco is 9-9 (50%) versus PAC teams
    Kyle is 13-21 (38%) versus PAC teams

    Despite your always cherry-picked stats and time frames, it's blatantly obvious which coach has been more competitive against PAC teams.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:47 a.m.

    @Kimmy

    Excuse me for being a Utah fan and lifelong fan of the PAC (having lived in Oregon, Washington and California) trying to identify how things could be made better.

    It's not, but the way, by agreeing to let the Holiday Bowl take the PAC-12 third pick and match it against the Big-12 FIFTH pick as was the case (contractually) this year, or the Big10 FOURTH pick as it will be starting next year.

    Nor by agreeing to let the Kraft Hunger Bowl, starting next year, take the PAC-12 number 4 team and match it against an unranked Big10 team (5th to 7th pick).

    Why is the Commissioner agreeing to play lower seeded teams from other conferences?

    If you're ok with a bowl schedule where all 9 PAC-12 teams were favored (e.g no upside in winning) and only Stanford had the chance to play a ranked BCS team, great. I'm not and don't think PAC-12 teams and fans who want to play the best competition are either.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:47 a.m.

    BYU can boast that 8 of the teams on their 2013 schedule went to bowl games. (Their combined bowl record 2 wins and 6 losses.) And how did their "toughest schedule ever" turn out? Combined record of all opponents (including bowls) WAS 80 WINS AND 73 LOSSES. And every opponent lost 4 or more games. That a 53% winning record. They did play 5-6 big name opponents but this year those opponents were not a strong as in the past.

  • Ifel Of'a-sofa Alpine, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:49 a.m.

    DrTPhD, by your rationale utah was the best team in the pac because they beat Stanford?

  • tinplater scottsdale, AZ
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:50 a.m.

    What is with you guys? My conference/ my team is better than yours? What a discussion. My memory is longer than yours. So what?

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:50 a.m.

    The playoffs will expand to eight teams within five years.

    With five power conferences, plus Notre Dame, and only four playoff spots available, it will only take a couple of seasons of power conference champions being left out of the playoffs, before fans will be screaming for the playoffs to be expanded.

    How will PAC and ACC fans react when their 12-1 champions are left on the outside looking in while Alabama, Florida, Oklahoma and Ohio St. are playing for the national title?

  • bradleyc Layton, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:56 a.m.

    Go Cougars.

  • Ifel Of'a-sofa Alpine, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:55 a.m.

    ChristopherB... and what would your record be if you only played "power conference teams"?

    Just because the pac is the second best conference (1st loser), that has absolutely nothing to do with utah, you get that right?

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:58 a.m.

    BYU played an ugly awful game against UW.
    It was a winnable game but not the way BYU
    played. PAC 12 is no better than Big 12 or Oklahoma
    & Texas conference.

  • Ifel Of'a-sofa Alpine, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:59 a.m.

    New To Utah
    "USU played a
    lousy one skilled player N Illinois."

    Who was nationally ranked all year, 12 wins, #3 Heisman QB. Ya, they were pathetic huh? Where does that leave utah?

    I guess utah must be the best in the pac because they beat Stanford, right? LOL

  • oddman ,
    Jan. 6, 2014 10:07 a.m.

    Balderdash, all the analysis from the blogger experts. Follow the money. That's the way it is and always will be, unfortunately.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 10:08 a.m.

    C'mon Mike. While Utah State's bowl game was entertaining and they did beat a good team, it proved nothing about the in state status. Utah State lost to both BYU and Utah and whil NIU was ranked all season we all know how much subjectivity plays into the rankings.

  • Christy B Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2014 10:08 a.m.

    One game does not a season make - Stanford playing in the Rose Bowl instead of Utah is proof of that very simple concept.

    Final BCS rankings prove which team was best in the state:

    #40 BYU
    #54 Utah
    #67 USU

  • pleblian salt lake city, utah
    Jan. 6, 2014 10:19 a.m.

    @NotAnRorD,

    You realize that Colorado came to the PAC10 from a BCS conference, right? Thus, your entire statement is undermined.

    For those UoU fans who claim playing non-BCS teams in bowl games is a waste of time. The 2008 Sugar Bowl Champions would like their REAL fans back.

    As for who the best team in the state was? USU. Why? USU outgained and barely lost to UoU in the first game of the season. They played BYU without Keeton. By the end of the season USU had evolved to adapt to injuries. They would have beat a Wilson-less UoU handily. Their offense would have matured since losing to BYU, and their defense was much better. In the meantime, BYU's offense did not improve, and their defense lost starters for various reasons. End of season, USU is probably the best, but not clearly.

    Utah needs to win some games. Right now, they simply rely upon the grace of the PAC12 to have any credibility. As far as strength of schedule, well, that's what happens when you put on the big boy pants.

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 10:31 a.m.

    The case could be made that the PAC 12 is
    The 4th best conference behind Big 12 & Big
    10. Stanford lost basically a home game & ASU
    lost to unranked TTU, & WSU lost to Colorado
    State.

  • NotAnRorD American Fork, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 10:41 a.m.

    @pleblian

    No, it further substantiates the comment. The Pro PAC group here is claiming it as a superior conference that invited their school (yes, the same fans who bemoaned the big schools as outsiders in 2008). Yet, Colorado had a losing record in all 5 seasons prior to being invited to the PAC - purely for economic reasons ... to say nothing about the quality of the program. Show me the money, is all they said, not show me a quality program. The BCS busters from outside the big leagues, as ironically argued here by Utah fans, validates that those busts were truly one-off outliers that should be statistically thrown out from the sample. They are invalid.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2014 11:47 a.m.

    phoenix
    Gilbert, AZ

    Uteology

    Bronco is 9-9 (50%) versus PAC teams
    Kyle is 13-21 (38%) versus PAC teams

    Despite your always cherry-picked stats and time frames, it's blatantly obvious which coach has been more competitive against PAC teams.

    ------------------

    Like I keep telling you over and over again when Utah and TCU were playing BYU's schedule they were the top 2 winningest programs against BCS teams.

    It's okay if you don't get it, I don't expect any BYU fan to understand how difficult it is to compete in the real league.

    Kyle playing BYU's schedule:

    vs. P12 4-3 (57%)
    vs. BCS 11-5 (68%)

    Patterson at TCU has similar numbers prior to joining the Big 12.

    Bronco has a losing record vs BCS teams:
    vs P12 9-9 (50%)
    vs BCS 11-15 (42%)

    BYU doesn't have the talent to compete against Utah and TCU (0-8). Both Utah and TCU would be ranked and competing for BCS bowls this year with BYU's schedule.

  • Duckhunter SLC, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 12:17 p.m.

    @uteology

    "Both Utah and TCU would be ranked and competing for BCS bowls this year with BYU's schedule."

    lol

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2014 1:06 p.m.

    Duckhunter
    SLC, UT

    @uteology

    "Both Utah and TCU would be ranked and competing for BCS bowls this year with BYU's schedule."

    lol

    --------------

    We have a Ducky siting on a Utah article?

    We missed you, welcome back! Just like football, after your basketball team took a beating at Utah we thought had lost you for the year.

    Not sure why your laughing, since your team is 0-8 against both teams, but the above statement is true considering:

    * Utah has only lost to ranked teams playing a similar schedule
    * TCU has been ranked in the top 10 playing a similar schedule

    So playing your schedule, at worst Utah 10-3 and TCU 12-1.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 1:20 p.m.

    "With five power conferences, plus Notre Dame, and only four playoff spots available, power conference champions being left out of the playoffs"

    That happens today. Tonight, the "playoff" is between then ACC and SEC. Fans of the Big12, Big10, and PAC12 are left out, but not complaining because they know FSU and Auburn earned their spots. If you want in, be better. Fans get that.

  • JayDee West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 1:34 p.m.

    @ uteology:

    This is an article about college football bowl games. Hence, it is absolutely NOT "a Utah article."

    But, since it references the PAC 12, U fans just assume it is a Utah article by association.

    That's how it's been for three years and how it appears it will be for the foreseeable future.

  • Mildred in Fillmore Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 1:40 p.m.

    I think that the Independant conference was the best this year.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 1:43 p.m.

    BYU is the best team in the State and one of the best nationally every year, just ask them.

  • PAC12Fan South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 2:18 p.m.

    Phoenix,

    Your assessment about our cherry picked stats are laughable. Bronco vs. Pac 12. Bronco usually had a bye or played a weakling before preparing for a Pac 12 team. Also, how many top 10 team Pac 12 teams did Bronco play. I remember a good USC team but most were not top tier programs.

    .500 vs .380 vs. PAC 12.

    Utah (in MWC) had a great record when they played a token Pac 10 team here and there with New Mexico the week before. Try running the gauntlet each week and see your record. If I get to play Hawaii one week before playing Washington, we win more games against Washington. Can't compare the two schools anymore.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Jan. 6, 2014 3:22 p.m.

    True, the Utes were not in a bowl game.
    And BYU lost theirs. Now you are left with grasping for the Funeral Potato Cup, bragging about being the best team in the state.
    You guys just can't get over Utah being in the PAC 12, and you are not. Move along and be happy with your prearranged bowl games. Signing those contracts two or three years in advance gives you something to go for. Because that's all you are going to get. You poke at the Utes for their Pac 12 play, yet since going independent BYUs record against ranked teams is crummy.

    Don't worry. Your band of buddies - Idaho, New Mexico St., and Idaho St will be there to hold your hand.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 3:31 p.m.

    @uteology

    What is it that makes this a "utah article"? utah has nothing whatsoever to do with this article other than utah heped put more teams into bowl games than other team in the naiton by supplying those teams with wins. Last time I checked "utah", and "bowl game" have zero correlation, utah has not gone to a bowl game in multiple years, in fact utah has been a losing team for multiple years. so next time you comment in a thread about teams in bowl games and try to make some sort of claim to the article perhaps you need to actually be a fan of a team that goes to bowl games.

    LOL!

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2014 4:05 p.m.

    So getting favoritism from the BCS voters proves you are a better conference? Yep the same tripe we've all heard spewing for years and years now. Good riddance to the BCS! The Pac was so dominant yeah right. That's why MSU clocked Stanford in the Rose bowl on 4th and 1. And overrated ASU got slapped around by an unranked Texas Tech team.

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2014 4:09 p.m.

    @Chrissy
    so which team are you a bandwagoner for? Stanford or Oregon?

  • Samurai Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 4:58 p.m.

    @WACpaddingourschedule:

    Awesome post, fellow Ute!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 5:01 p.m.

    pac12! Conference! Pac 12! Conference!

    Man that is so much more satisfying and fun than actually having the team I like go to a bowl game. I can see why utah "fans" have all those pac12 stickers and try to pretend that trying to co opt superior schools accomplishments is so great. I'm going to go out and buy myself a pac12 sticker. Nevermind that the pac12 beat exactly zero OOC teams of any significance this year unless you want to count the pac12 refs cheating wisconsin out of a field goal attempt a real "win". Man the pac12 is awesome, just being associated with it, even though our states flagship team is an overwhelming loser in it, just makes us all feel like we've done something, or won something, or something.....

    LOL!

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 5:07 p.m.

    phoenix
    Gilbert, AZ
    Uteology

    Bronco is 9-9 (50%) versus PAC teams
    Kyle is 13-21 (38%) versus PAC teams

    Despite your always cherry-picked stats and time frames, it's blatantly obvious which coach has been more competitive against PAC teams.

    ----------

    Ha ha ha that may just be the most disingenuous "factoid" I've seen so far on this board.

    Yes Mendenhall has a SLIGHTLY better Pac 12 record than Whittingham. But you conveniently (or ignorantly) failed to emphasize the fact that Utah has played more than THREE TIMES the number of games vs the Pac 12 than BYU has.

    That's like me saying Utah's basketball team is better against WCC teams than BYU is this year, since:

    Utah is 1-0 (1.000) vs WCC teams this year

    BYU is 1-2 (.333) vs WCC teams this year

    Never mind the fact that BYU has had to play three times the number of WCC games that Utah has.

    Ridiculous argument. Folly, irrelevant and useless.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2014 5:31 p.m.

    Uteology

    The bowl season (with 35 bowls and 70 participating teams) proved for the 2nd straight season that the Utes are not even good enough to be included in the top 70 teams in the country.

    Tomahawk Red

    It's laughable that Utah fans are so embarrassed to talk about their dismal football program, that they're forced to desperately switch to basketball, a sport in which the Utes have an even worse conference record than they have in football, hard as that is to believe.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 5:43 p.m.

    Uteanymous
    Salt Lake City, Utah

    .. and yet the Utes have beat your team 4 years in a row and 9 of the last 12.

    Awful courageous for you to be commenting at all.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 6, 2014 5:52 p.m.

    Tomahawk

    You are obviously unfamiliar with the concept that extremely small sample size usually yields extremely inaccurate results.

    Dave Rose is 31-13(71%) versus WCC teams.
    Larry K is 2-2(50%) versus WCC teams.

    More importantly, Rose is 12-4 versus Utah and has won 11 of the last 13.

  • Samurai Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 5:58 p.m.

    Amen, 54-10. Amen!

  • LOTR Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 6, 2014 7:18 p.m.

    Why are Utah fan even commenting on bowl season?

    The Utes aren't even good enough to qualify for a bowl anymore.

    BYU has won FOUR bowls in the last 5 seasons.
    The mighty weak Utes have only won TWO.

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    Jan. 6, 2014 7:46 p.m.

    Ho hum, Bowl season is so irrelevant except to the fans of the two teams on the field at the time. Absolutely nothing at stake. Until there is a playoff why would any fan watch any game except their team?

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    Jan. 6, 2014 8:23 p.m.

    "Bowl season has proved that SEC, Pac-12 were country's best conferences this year"

    LOL!

    The SEC will finish the BCS era with at least NINE BCS National Championships!

    The PAC will finish the BCS era without a single BCS National Championship -- the ONLY AQ conference never to have won a Crystal Football National Championship trophy during the entire BCS era.

    BCS National Championships

    SEC - NINE (or ten)
    Big 12 - two
    ACC - one (or two)
    Big East - one
    Big Ten - one
    PAC 12 - NONE

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 9:00 p.m.

    Duckhunter is back, wow, we're special. I was worried about you, Duck, you completely disappeared after Coach K taught Rose how college basketball is played. LOL!

    Yep, the Pac-12 is, by far, the elite among the elite.

    Go Utes!!

  • Cool Cat Cosmo Payson, UT
    Jan. 6, 2014 10:12 p.m.

    Perhaps this article should have waited for the just concluded National Championship game, where a SEC team lost (gasp!). Thank GOODNESS that I don't have to hear about how great the SEC is...at least for a couple of months, anyhow. Congrats 'Noles on a hard-fought win!

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    Jan. 7, 2014 8:39 a.m.

    @Steven Jarvis..."If Chris B. has his way and the "big boys" don't schedule teams outside of the top tier conferences Utah likely will never make a bowl again. Utah can't get six wins without playing "lesser teams." Nothing restrains Utah or any team from doing this except for common sense."

    LOL, what point are you trying to make? The Y would have 1-2 wins max with Utah's schedule. Bronco and the cougies are the prime example of a coach and team that can't beat anybody besides whats expected. They only reason most cougie fans, coaches and administration is happy with independence is so the cougies can go to the kraft fight hunger each year or something along these lines. If the cougies were in any of the larger conferences they would be stuck with 1-2 win seasons every year.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Jan. 7, 2014 9:56 a.m.

    So Duckhunter,

    Yes, the team you like went to a bowl game, but in doing so they got beat by another team from that Pac 12 Conference you just love to put down. Ouch!

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    Jan. 7, 2014 9:58 a.m.

    What was that again about the SEC being the most dominant best awesomest greatest conference? Then why didn't Auburn win last night? ACC >SEC
    NOLES !

  • my3cents Nashville, TN
    Jan. 7, 2014 10:11 a.m.

    Interesting that the conference champions of "the two best conferences" both lost their bowl games.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 7, 2014 11:09 a.m.

    jarka-rus
    Yeah, the SEC team lost last night but I don't understand why you are gloating. Is this like your comments about the Utes where you dream up a game that doesn't exist to claim the Utes would lose? I'm sorry, bro, I just don't get it.

  • SaltLakeCitySlicker SLC, UT
    Jan. 7, 2014 1:02 p.m.

    I think it is silly that everyone on this board tries to act as if the head-to-head record is the only thing that matters. Obviously it is a significant part of the formula, but let's not end the conversation with the Utes being the top team solely because of head-to-head records.

    Now, I am not saying that USU or BYU was better than the Utes this season, but it is closer than many make it out to be. The fact of the matter is that it is nearly impossible to determine who was the best team when they all played each other so early and then so many different things happened to each team. All 3 teams were quite competitive this year and the overall state of the football programs in Utah is improving.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 7, 2014 3:14 p.m.

    "but let's not end the conversation with the Utes being the top team solely because of head-to-head records...they all played each other so early"
    How about we end the conversation with the end-of-year Sagarin Ratings?
    34. Utah
    35. BYU
    41. USU

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 7, 2014 3:44 p.m.

    2B

    The point is, Utah for all their talk, haven't be able to walk the walk, since joining the PAC.

    Bronco is 9-9(50%) versus PAC teams.

    Kyle is 13-21(38%) versus PAC teams.

    The record speaks for itself.

    BYU would be far more competitive in the PAC than the Utes have been.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 7, 2014 4:33 p.m.

    @mormon ute

    I haven't spent much time "putting down" the pac12, it is a good conference. I have spent a great deal of time mocking utah "fans" that seem to think simply being in the pac12 makes utah good. But my point about the pac12 is valid, they did not have a single top quality OOC win this year. A couple of pac12 teams beat some good teams but none of them beat any top teams unless you want to call what the pac12 refs did to give asu a win over wisconsin a win over a "top" team.

    The pac12 didn't do anything OOC against the other top 5 conferences to show they were superior to most of them. If I am missing something here by all means show me those game results and I'll be more than happy to agree with you.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    Jan. 7, 2014 4:40 p.m.

    anti BCS--

    "The point is, Utah for all their talk, haven't be able to walk the walk, since joining the PAC.

    Bronco is 9-9(50%) versus PAC teams.

    Kyle is 13-21(38%) versus PAC teams.

    The record speaks for itself.

    BYU would be far more competitive in the PAC than the Utes have been."

    First of all, when did bm ever play PAC-10/-12 in a back-2-back, wk-in/wk-out grind of a schedule? There's a distinct reason our final SOS ranking is #3 and byu's is #38 and why at 5-7 we finished ranked higher by Sagarin than byu did at 8-5. This is something byu fan just simply can't get around.

    Even playing against 7 different PAC-12 teams randomly, spanning 3 years, bm's merely 2-5, getting smashed by the 3 teams over .500, twice at home, and only beating 2 teams at the bottom of the standings. Finally, he's 0-3 against Coach KW during this same 3-YR period-of-time.

    Imagine playing Oregon State/The U/UCLA/Stanford/at Arizona/at USC/ASU/at Oregon/at WAZZU all back-2-back = byu's winless!

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 7, 2014 5:30 p.m.

    Duckhunter
    Highland, UT

    Welcome back from Tulsa. It is fun discussing conference issues isn't it? I guess that you miss that when you have no conference to play in.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 7, 2014 6:08 p.m.

    SoonerUte

    "How about we end the conversation with the end-of-year Sagarin Ratings?
    34. Utah
    35. BYU
    41. USU"

    LOL!

    After all of the chest-beating by Utah fans about Utah's vast "PAC 12 superiority", the Utes only managed to finish ONE place ahead of BYU and only seven places ahead of USU in Sagarin's final rankings.

    Other polls were far less impressed with the Utes:

    CBS Sports
    #34 USU
    #51 BYU
    #71 Utah

    Massey
    #36 BYU
    #37 Utah
    #43 USU

    Real Time RPI
    #47 BYU
    #50 USU
    #70 Utah

    Composite of 65 Polls
    #34 BYU
    #42 USU
    #52 Utah

    Bottom line:
    Both BYU and USU had winning records and played in a bowl;
    Utah once again finished with a losing record and was left on the outside looking in at the bowls.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 7, 2014 6:15 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    LOL at how you slice and dice records.

    Despite your spin, Bronco has won 50% of his games versus PAC 12 teams, including wins over Oregon and Washington, teams Kyle, at only 38%, has never beaten.

    Unlike Kyle, with a PAC 12 South title there for the taking, Bronco WOULD NOT have lost at home to a 10-loss team that hadn't won a road game in 4 years.

    One thing Bronco was consistently good at in conference play was NEVER losing to conference bottom dwellers like New Mexico, Wyoming, Colorado State, and UNLV.

    Kyle lost to every one of those teams including a horrible 2-10 UNLV team that only beat one other team all season, 2-10 Utah State.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 8, 2014 11:31 a.m.

    @54iq

    Can't give me a single pac12 win over a "top" team huh? That's because there isn't one. lol

  • RedWings CLEARFIELD, UT
    Jan. 8, 2014 11:35 a.m.

    Shouldn't Ute fans focus on being the best in the PAC 12, rather than the best in Utah?

    Sure, the Utes beat USU the first week of the season, and BYU later in September. But they ended up with a losing season and out of the bowls. If success in Utah is all you are after, then congratulations are in order for last year.

    For me, I am thrilled that USU had a third successful season! Winning their division and beating a ranked opponent in a bowl is a great season any anyone's book!!!!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 8, 2014 12:01 p.m.

    @PAC MAN

    So now that the Utes are ranked ahead of BYU in the Sagarin Rankings, you quickly dismiss these rankings and look elsewhere. All that i have heard for the last two years is how BYU is better because of the Sagarin rankings. Now that they don't fit your agenda; you quickly look else where. Just admit it, Utah won on the field, played a tougher schedule and were ranked higher in the always referenced Sagarin Rankings. I know the truth hurts. Especially when your rival had a horrible year, yet they are still a better team.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Jan. 8, 2014 2:30 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "So now that the Utes are ranked ahead of BYU in the Sagarin Rankings, you quickly dismiss these rankings and look elsewhere."

    The Utes being ranked ONE spot higher than BYU in the Sagarin Rankings is hardly a ringing endorsement for a big boy conference school over a lowly independent.

    The consensus of other legitimate polls shows that the vast majority of pollsters still rank BYU higher than Utah.

    Even Sagarin's Predictor ranking favors BYU beating Utah on a neutral field:

    #30 BYU
    #32 Utah

    And Sagarin's Pure_ELO ranking, which is the ranking used by the BCS, ranks Utah even lower:

    #39 BYU
    #65 Utah

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    Jan. 8, 2014 2:43 p.m.

    @PAC man--

    I'm still awaiting a direct-response to what I in fact actually stated above in my comment?

    @RedWings--

    Thanks for your concern regarding the premier program in the state, my Alma Mater The Mighty Utah Utes....We appreciate it!

    And congratulations on usu's stellar season while playing against the #74 ranked SOS in the nation, while beating nobody of significance other than a team in n ill which managed to pull off 12 wins against the #116 ranked SOS in the nation....Keep in mind, there existed only 125 FBS schools, nationally, in 2013....In contrast, we Mighty Utah Utes played against the #3 ranked SOS in the nation and, as we work toward completion of our transition into what was in 2013, from top-to-bottom, the #1 toughest conference in the nation, we'll be just fine!

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    Jan. 9, 2014 8:18 a.m.

    @sports fan

    I have an idea how we can settle who the better team is let's have them play each other.

    Wait I forgot they already did that and the U has won 4 straight 9 of 12 and overall domination...SCOREBOARD. KVN came back for the sole purpose of playing his superbowl and getting a win vs. Utah he was sent packin from his superbowl with another L and 0 - 4 for his carreer against the U..LOL

  • Cougsndawgs91 West Point, UT
    Jan. 9, 2014 10:00 p.m.

    Once again it is laughable how Utah and BYU fans bicker over what amounts to diddly squat in the eyes of CFB fans everywhere. BYU should have been better but failed to deliver in big games, which I'm sad to say is starting to be an MO of Bronco and a real pain to fans like me. Utah has done nothing to impress anyone, digressing more and more with each passing year in the PAC12 (and no, AZUTE, the computers, polls, and bowl season show that once again the SEC was the best conference from top to bottom in 2013). Going 4-5, then 3-6, then 2-7 in conference is not indicative of "we're making progress" or "almost there"...to think so is ridiculous. USU has consistently made progress over the last few years and should be proud considering where they've come from, but the MWC was a joke this year. BYU or Utah would have been champions in that conference considering Fresno beat BSU by a last second single point and struggled with usu while BYU destroyed both USU and BSU, and Utah beat them. No program has a whole lot to brag about but at least USU is progressing.

  • Sparkley Briefs New York, NY
    Jan. 17, 2014 6:31 a.m.

    Sports Fan,

    How does the Sagarin predictor feel about Utah's chances AT BYU? I suspect that it would predict that BYU would score a late touchdown to keep the final score close, but never seriously threaten to win.

    The Deseret News comment boards are the only place where winning on the field is less important than dredging up cherry-picked "facts" to prove which team is best. Well done folks!