Normally I'm pro-death penalty. But our judicial system is so incompetent,
inept and swamped by "legal gamesmanship" that guilt versus innocence
means less than ever. The odds of putting innocent people to death is probably
higher now than at any time in the last century. Until and unless we can fix
this problem, I have great misgivings about executing, unless the factual guilt
of the person is beyond refute.
You cannot claim to be against abortion due to the 'sanctity of
life'… while at the same time, be in support of factually
ending life, in support of the death penalty. Well, not if you wish
to avoid having a double standard.
Support for the death penalty is down, it is still at 60%. When a political
candidate wins by 60% it's usually considered a political landslide. Opponents of the death penalty usually point to the cost. This argument
is weak for at least two reasons. First, it's the attorneys and judges
allowing appeals to go on for ever that push the cost up. Secondly, who is to
say, if the death penalty were to be abolished, that life in prison without
parole, as the harshest punishment, would not be appealed "until the cows
come home?" The reason it's not appealed as much now is because many
vicious killers settle for life without parole rather than appealing, because
they realize, if they don't settle, they could receive the death penalty.
If the death penalty is taken off the table, those sentenced to life without
parole, who are settling for it now, will continue to appeal. It is
not inconsistent to be anti-abortion and pro death penalty. Abortion kills the
innocent. The death penalty kills heinous murderers. Apply the death penalty
only in cases where proof of guilt is conclusive e.g. mass murder with plenty of
@PaganSure you can. It isn't a double standard. Abortion
kills a perfectly innocent life. A murderer isn't innocent and has
forfeited the right to his own life when he takes another.It makes
I for retribution. I want to have the future to be better. If some one has the
right yo kill me shouldn't I have that same right. What is war about.
This is the list of countries that still use the death penalty: Chine #1., Iraq
#2., Yemen #3., Iran #4., and the United States at #5. the Congo is #6. Are we
in good company? Those countries that don't use the death
penalty: England, Australia, Canada, France, Italy, Germany, Sweden, Norway,
etc. Which group of countries is most like us? All of the European Union does
not use the death penalty. If our crime rate was lower, I could understand, but
it is not lower. It is much higher than all of the countries listed that do not
use the death penalty.
Support for the death penalty is reducing. Support for same sex marriages is
increasing. The economy is improving. This is great news for America. So much
for all of the chicken little's running around screaming the sky is
falling. Well, I guess when you have no plan (GOP) except to rail against the
president and do nothing, fear mongering is the only fallback strategy.
I support the death penalty for some crimes, but I think it needs to be applied
very carefully. And...there is no comparison between the death penalty and
The Death Penalty is a barbarous vestige of a bygone era. It is way past time
that this practice should be ended. Hopefully the Supreme Court will eventually
view it as cruel and unusual punishment and declare it unconstitutional.
Although largely only used in exceptional murder cases in some states, it is
still an affront to our humanity and should be ended. There is no argument that
can justify this practice in modern society. Our common humanity cannot support
revenge or vengeance as basis for it. How can we ask or require individuals to
carry out this sentence?
"I felt like I had another human being's life in my hands. If I
didn't do my job, I would be part of the reason he was killed."IMHO lawyers, and some judges, see the court as a stage and their
"job" an act. The reason Allgier was on trial was for murdering a
correction officer and attempting escape. The reason for the death penalty was
his, Allgier's, act not the performance of a lawyer.Have
innocent people been executed? Yes. Is life perfect or fair? No.I
object to the legal community using the court and the law to further their
Quixotic quest for their own personal brand of justice or fairness at public
expense.I can see life without parole, as defined as life in prison
without ever leaving the prison, except in a pine box. That is life without
I do support the death penalty in certain instances. Ted Bundy was the perfect
example. I do believe it is a silly argument that the death penalty deters
crime. The United States has a horrendous murder rate compared to other
countries where homicides are rare such as Canada which has no capital
punishment. Criminals rarely consider the consequences of their actions. That
is why they are criminals.
@BeverlyEden, UTGreat point!I've read the same
thing as well.and let's not forget North Korea, Iran, Sudan, Pakistan
and Cuba.I think we are on the wrong side in this debate.From a religous stand point, I can't understand how can any
Christian be FOR death penalties, when they are reminded weeking that
Jesus was innocently crucified.
I am opposed to the death penalty in part due to the large number of death row
prisoners who have been proven innocent by DNA analysis and other reviews. Not
just "innocent on a meretechnicality" (although I, for one, don't
consider the US Constitution and Bill of Rights to be mere technicalities), but
factually innocent. If we absolutely must have a death penalty, I would change
the standard of proof from "beyond a reasonable doubt" to "beyond
any possible doubt". In the meantime, we find ourselves with
distinguished company in maintaining the death penalty, sharing it with
countries such as North Korea, Iran and Uganda, the latter having just sustained
its death penalty for homosexuality. It's no wonder much of the free world
looks upon us a barbarians who live where the State kills people and everyone
needs to be armed to survive.
PaganThere is a HUGE difference in killing an innocent fetus and
killing a person so evil and so vile that they cannot be helped. How do you not
see the difference? Open Minded Mormonhow can you be
christian and for the death penalty? Christians have killed many people in the
name of religion - and innocent people have been killed as well. Heck, Laban was
killed by Nephi (Book of Mormon) for no reason at all. God wiped out whole
cities in the bible because the people are evil. So... I don't see your
I have a hard time understanding how some of you can be so passionate about the
sanctity of a criminal's life and have no reservations about taking the
life of an unborn child. All life is sacred...even the "inconvenient"
ones.And, a couple of you have tried to subtly infuse this
discussion with an anti-gun message. Huh?My own view is that we are
doing a lousy job of administering justice overall. If we are prone to error
(executing an innocent person or not executing a guilty person), and if the
process of getting a prisoner to execution is more costly than imprisoning them
for life, without parole, then we ought to eliminate the death penalty. I'd
rather see many murderers receive less punishment than they deserve than see one
innocent person executed.
'Pagan There is a HUGE difference in killing an innocent fetus and
killing a person so evil and so vile that they cannot be helped.' So, EVERY child born will be 'innocent'? I'm sure
people thought that about many of the murderers out there. Hitler, Stalin,
etc. You cannot predict the action of every child born.
As such your claims of 'innocent' children is moot. As a
peson on death row is part of this 'sanctity' of life that many how,
are willing to kill. With a death penalty.
I fully support the death penalty - as a matter of justice, not as a matter of
deterrance or revenge.Pagan, come on girl, give it up. Your
comparison is so weak.
The abortion/death penalty argument of several comments hinges on an assumed
dissimilarity between the innocence of the unborn and the culpability of the
murderer. I see two problems. The first is a secular one: it is given that
the unborn are of necessity innocent and the murderer guilty; how does one
assure, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the individual accused of murder is
guilty? I have read dozens of cases in which individuals awaiting execution were
exonerated--and cases where the exoneration was proved after the execution.
Taking the life of an innocent person is abhorrent and the state must be barred
from making that mistake; abandonment of the death penalty is the only certain
bar.The second problem is religious: there is no certainty, other than the
mystic of religious belief, that the unborn have souls or when they attain
souls. Nor is there any certainty of innocence or guilt of any
individual—that certainty lies with God alone. The usurpation of the
determination of innocence is an act of hubris, a sin against God.
Leave Death in God's hands. The Government is too evil and corrupt to be
the arbiter of life and death.
I don't need some human sacrifice to feel good about myself. If some
murderer is making my life miserable, I will look to change myself and not the
things I can't control.
PaganNot every child will be innocent - obviously. Every child is
currently innocent before they are born. You really want to use that as an
argument? You are in favor of killing a fetus because it 'might'
become a criminal? Your reasoning is not only shocking, but rather strange.
ahhhh Let me see I would like to see who was polled and what the % for and
against were. I would pose a question since I was born during the time the death
penalty was quite active. Since its been outlawed there are more killings than
ever, granted one has to be careful, because of some that died innocent. However
with DNA and other improved means of finding the culprits I would say reinstate
the death penalty and watch things change. The cost to have people locked up is
astronomrical. When I talk death penalty iam talking hard core killers not
accidental deaths and those that are questionable I am talking a lot of the
murders that are going on now.
Dear Strider 303: It is my understanding that there has never been a documented
case of an innocent person being executed in the U.S. That doesn't mean it
has never happened, of course. But, I don't believe there are any
@tgrudCrime rates including murder are at bear historic lows and
lower then they have been in nearly 40 years. The world isn not ending because
of less executions.
Re: "I am opposed to the death penalty in part due to the large number of
death row prisoners who have been proven innocent . . . [n]ot just
'innocent on a mere technicality' . . . but factually
innocent."It has never happened.The fact that an
item of evidence may be thrown out, or a witness bullied into recanting, that
evidence was corruptly and illegally suppressed, or even that a judge may
apologize to a miscreant, does NOT establish factual innocence.Remember who these pro-crime liberals and academics are, and that financial
contributions to their political "cause" and very livelihood, depend
largely on their disingenuous propaganda.Take it from a longtime
criminal trial attorney, one who has defended more than twice as many cases as
he has prosecuted -- almost no defendants are wrongly convicted. Of those, only
a tiny, tiny fraction are "factually innocent" of the crime they were
convicted of, though most are not totally innocent.Those handful in
a century that are truly innocent -- along with many, many who are guilty -- are
always pardoned, released, retried, or somehow saved, often by their
Maybe some of those who say the don't support the death penalty say so
because they have simply given up. I wonder how the poll number would look if
death sentences were actually being carried out?
Some of you claim we should be like European countries and do away with the
death penalty just because they have. But I just found an article showing 5
murderers who were given life sentences but were released for "good
behavior" killed again, a couple just weeks after being released. I was not allowed to give the url, but you can find it by googling murderers
released murdering again.Just because another liberally-minded
country does something, doesn't mean it's wise to follow. What do you
say to a family whose child is raped and murdered by a convicted murderer who
was set free after a "life" sentence? Great Britain has
done away with the death penalty, has made it illegal to defend one's home
against home invasion with deadly force for the most part, and their violent
crimes are now 4 times what they are in the U.S. We don't need to allow
ourselves to degenerate to that level just "because Great Britain is doing
@procuradorfiscalsimply claiming "it never happened" and
your own claims of antidotal experience of "it almost never happening"
does not make your claims true, do you have any evidence that counters the
evidence presented by those "liberal academics?'
Re: ". . . do you have any evidence that counters the evidence presented by
those 'liberal academics?'"That's my point.
They've presented no evidence, whatever. They merely obtain a reversal --
often not even on all charges -- then start bleating about the success of their
"innocence" project.They present no proof whatever of
factual innocence, beyond the unethical claims of their disingenuous fundraising
@procurdorfiscalSo you are asking us to believe they walked into
court with no evidance and got sentences overturned? Not only is that a large
leap you ask us to take it is blatantly false. Anyone that would
care to see the evidance presented is welcome to go to the innocence project
website where they source the DNA and other evidence used in trail to get
convictions overturned. Please do not take this person at face value.
This is an interesting article. I've been around some defense
attorney's and they find it hard to let some one die for their despicable
crimes because they grow emotionally attached to their clients, seems the
defense lawyer quoted in this article has the same issue. As cost
seems the most quoted reason for eliminating capital punishment. The states have
brought it upon themselves for allowing mandatory appeals and switching to
"less scary" but much less expensive forms of execution, ie hanging,
electrocution and firing squad (Utah), in favor of lethal injections. It will be a very sad day (as we are seeing with this every so increasingly
politically correct world) that if the Supreme court where to over turn a
decision that over turned another decision we would see a spike in gruesome
murders like we saw in Ogden at the HiFi Shop in April, 1974 less than two years
after SCOTUS ruled Capital Punishment unconstitutional because it violated the
8th amendment clause of "cruel and unusual". Well many murders kill in a
most cruel and unusual fashion, so why do these people get a break when their
victims blood cries out for justice!
Strider303 wrote: "Have innocent people been executed? Yes. Is life perfect
or fair? No."So you have no issue with innocent people being
executed. How is that different from murder? That is the issue with the death
penalty. That no matter what there is always the possibility that an innocent
person can be killed. Proponents vehemently deny that this has occurred in the
modern era (despite evidence proving otherwise). But there are a few that just
do not care as demonstrated by the flippant comment about the innocent being
killed. The death penalty does nothing to prevent additional
killings, it is more expensive because of the safeguards within the system, and
the judicial system has proven that race plays a major role in who is
executed.Killing is never justified.