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Charles Krauthammer: America wakes up to discover lie of the year

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  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    Dec. 22, 2013 7:02 a.m.

    The best disinfectant against all the corruption and all the lies of Obamacare is the light of truth! Dr. Krauthammer's diagnosis is spot on!

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 8:37 a.m.

    Charles used to be more open minded, more broad in his articles --

    Over the last 2-3 years --
    he has become a mind numbing parrot,
    is like a SKIP in a record,
    spewing the same rhetoric,
    on the same topic,
    with the same arguments,
    to the same audience.

    Polly want a cracker?...

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 8:41 a.m.

    If we're heading in the direction of Britain's NHS that's great. The problem is the piecemeal way we're going about it.

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    Dec. 22, 2013 10:36 a.m.

    LDS Liberal. Please tell us what parts or any specific things that Dr. Krauthammer wrote in his article that is untrue! All you did was attack him personally! That is disingenuous, irrational and so "liberalistic": Can't debate the message so you attack the messenger!

  • the old switcharoo mesa, AZ
    Dec. 22, 2013 12:28 p.m.

    Well, as presidential lies go it's pretty benign. Nixon lied and the nation was embarrassed. Reagan lied and gave guns to rebels. Bush lied and a million Iraqis died.

    Obama lied and millions of American people had to get a better insurance policy that for most people cost less. Millions more were ALLOWED to buy health insurance or could quit their corporate job they only kept for the insurance.

    The gnashing of teeth is getting louder but it's still just a poodle with no other ideas.

    Birth certificate, Kenya, death panels, it wasn't our idea.... last years biggest lies.

  • mountainmoremanly mesa, AZ
    Dec. 22, 2013 12:41 p.m.

    But Krafty, you CAN keep you old terrible health care plan if you want to. Since republicans made such a fuss, the old plans are grandfathered in. It's just that they are more expensive for the care you will get so.....ya, nobody really wants to keep them. Republicans will and have blamed Obama for the weather after all.

  • the old switcharoo mesa, AZ
    Dec. 22, 2013 12:54 p.m.

    Here's Obama's biggest lie, "The United States Senate — Democrats and Republicans — (voted) to keep our government open."

    Politifact says, "Not a single Republican ultimately voted for the bill"

    So if you're upset at how the government is working, just remember that ALL of your representatives voted to keep the US government shut down and out of business.

  • Ralph West Jordan Taylorsville, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 2:39 p.m.

    LDS Liberal said it very succinctly, but if I might add one other to his very factual list!
    Krauthammer never has any "suggestions of his own" just complaints! He is a bitter, bitter man who has never come to terms with Obama's elections!

  • Kirk R Graves West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 2:48 p.m.

    @LDS Liberal
    And yet you aren't disputing anything stated in the article. Truth is still truth, even when you don't like it.

    @Hutterite
    I lived in the UK for 2 years. You have no idea what you are talking about. The NHS there was so bad that when a friend of mine (a Brit) needed to see the doctor, not only did it take weeks before he could be seen, but I was personally horrified by the conditions of the place. No, moving to a UK style NHS is NOT a good idea.

  • Kirk R Graves West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 2:51 p.m.

    @the old switcheroo
    Nixon was impeached, Iran Contra wasn't a lie, just a poorly executed foreign policy, and to this day, nobody can definitively prove that Bush lied (that there truly was no WMD, or that he was informed correctly about them).

    On the other hand, O clearly knew in advance that he was deceiving the American Electorate, and continued right up until it was too late. So, are you proposing that we should follow the Nixon route with O? I would agree with you.

  • carman Wasatch Front, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 3:39 p.m.

    The old switcheroo:

    re: "Obama lied and millions of American people had to get a better insurance policy that for most people cost less."

    What you should have said is, "Obama lied and millions of American people had to get an insurance policy that other Americans were forced to pay for".

    ObamaCare does not cost less, it costs more. ObamaCare just forcibly takes from some to pay for medical insurance for others. Let's be clear about what we are saying.

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    Dec. 22, 2013 4:02 p.m.

    I would ask everyone how you will spend the $2500 Obama promise his Obamacare would save the average family in health care insurance premiums? Remember, he promised, so surely it must be true!

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 4:06 p.m.

    Because the president believes that the end justifies the means, a lie is not considered a lie. Sen. Gillibrand D-NY stated that everyone knew Mr. Obama's 2009 promises were not true. The unfortunate fallacy is that the Affordable Care Act provides neither affordable or universal care.

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 4:20 p.m.

    "By the Department of Health and Human Services' own estimates, about 75 million Americans with employer-provided insurance will see their plans canceled. And millions of middle-class workers who will migrate to the exchanges and don't qualify for government subsidies will see their premiums, deductibles and co-pays go up." This is a very dishonest and an untrue statement. Changes have occurred, as happens almost every year with insurance policies. According to the California experience, most are seeing improvements, especially with company and large group sponsored programs. Why does the Editorial Board continue to promote falsehoods with this writer.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 4:26 p.m.

    Irony:

    Charles Krauthammer, in accusing Obama of lying, describes the ACA as a "total federal takeover of healthcare".

    Either he thinks the right wing of American politics are mindless zombies, or he wants to break into comedy writing. This is like back in college when you'd write something completely off topic in themiddle of a paper, just to see if the professor actually reads students' papers.

  • Ralph West Jordan Taylorsville, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 4:35 p.m.

    Re; Kirk Graves
    "On the other hand, O clearly knew in advance that he was deceiving the American Electorate"

    I am certain that you must have absolute proof to back that statement up, and equally certain that you would be willing to share it with us! I can't imagine that this would be just another parroting of Right Wing AM radio rhetoric!

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 5:15 p.m.

    "Either he thinks the right wing of American politics are mindless zombies, or he wants to break into comedy writing."

    Well, he's not remotely funny, so I guess the answer is...

    Seriously, Krauthammer writes as though the ACA came straight from the Politburo, and remains willfully oblivious to the fact that the core principals of the ACA originated with the Heritage Foundation and we're implemented successfully in Massachusetts by Governor Mitt.

    By the time the 2016 elections roll around the ACA will be firmly in place and operational, and the GOP will have to invent new nonsense to keep FOX viewers' neck veins throbbing and checkbooks open.

  • esodije ALBUQUERQUE, NM
    Dec. 22, 2013 6:00 p.m.

    Can't wait until we have an NHS, too. Make medicine so non-lucrative that we have to import most or all of our doctors from the developing world. Make our hospitals operate as though they ~were~ in the developing world. Ration care and tell all those useless old/sick people just to go off and die somewhere. Cease research and innovation, and stop investing in new prescription meds. But, hey, single-payer is what the Dems want, so it must be a good idea, right?

  • Kings Court Alpine, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 6:08 p.m.

    I wish Krauthammer would cite his sources. I just don't believe all of his made-up statistics and even worse, his doomsday future statistics that are worthy of a sequel to the Minority Report. Ironically, every time the President comes out with his made-up statistics, Krauthammer is the first one to question their veracity. In my opinion, it cuts both ways. It should cut both ways for anyone wanting to know the truth for themselves and are not too lazy or uneducated to dig into them.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Dec. 22, 2013 7:17 p.m.

    I guess that the right no longer thinks Politifact is just lamestream liberal media.

    At least for today.

  • Joan Watson TWIN FALLS, ID
    Dec. 22, 2013 8:39 p.m.

    Well folks - "time will tell. The insurance for the wealthy will be the best medical insurance available along with best Dr's, and hospitals; the truly poor will have Medicaid but access to Dr's will be limited; The middleclass families. Medical insurance will have co-pay for regular Dr's - high co-pay for specialists, and a high (er) deductibles. Any way one cuts it - The middle class budget will take a big financial hit if one should become seriously ill or need surgery.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 9:03 p.m.

    JoeBlow: "I guess that the right no longer thinks Politifact is just lamestream liberal media."

    Of course conservatives still think that Politifact is "lamestream liberal media". That is what makes their pick of the biggest lie so significant. If a conservative paper said it (and just about every one of them has), liberals just write them off as hacks.

    The lie is so big and obvious, even the most liberal biased sources have to admit it or they lose whatever credibility they have.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 11:00 p.m.

    The real lie of the year is Barack Obama. Everything about this man is a lie. From Benghazi to the IRS audits against conservatives to Obamacare. Barack's entire political career was based on lies from the start to the present and the man has grown past feeling. The ends justify the means in his mind. His enablers pump him full of self promoting propaganda and I actually think he believes most of the lies. His presidency is historic alright - the most corrupt in US history.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 11:14 p.m.

    I am in utter shock that there is ANYONE who still buys into Obamacare. I guess hyper partisanship is a pretty hard thing to give up even in the face of facts.

    Obamacare is a complete disaster and it just gets worse by the day. This is what happens when you hire someone who is unqualified, incompetent, narcissistic and has a far-let agenda.

    P.S. My husband lived in England for two years. He couldn't believe how bad the health care was. The same is true for others I have known. Don't pit British National Health as an example of anything we would want to follow.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Dec. 23, 2013 4:49 a.m.

    That lie is found in Krauthammer's column. Example (but not the only example) -- the one to which I am responding.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Dec. 23, 2013 7:54 a.m.

    Ralph West Jordan

    I suppose Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Payne, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, etc. were all just "bitter, bitter" men over England's tight grip over the 'colonies'.

    I'd much rather be a "parrot" with the truth than a lemming following the mantra of...

    “We have to pass the (health care) bill so you can find out what is in it”.

    I'm very grateful for men like Charles Krauthammer that can articulate the problems. It will be up to us as citizens to cure the problems when it comes time at the ballot box.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 23, 2013 7:57 a.m.

    Cats - my dad lived there for 14 years... just moved back to the states. He would put the care he received there up against what he gets here any day of the week. Of course he was there, raising a family, earning an income, and paying bills... perhaps he had a different perspective.

    Krauthammer in this piece is a perfect example of what is so wrong with society today. We are unlike the generations past that tried to build, a generation complainers and finger pointers. Rather than doing, we complain how someone has done us wrong. Rather than sacrificing to create a better world for our kids, we have the ultimate in entitlement attitude that we are guaranteed greater prosperity, without the sacrifice.

    Rather than ending the year pointing out what we can do in 2014, he resorts to the lazy and unimaginative work of journalistic whining. It is far more work to be "for" something, then it is to point out what others have done wrong.

    Another sign of American laziness and sense of entitlement.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Dec. 23, 2013 8:54 a.m.

    I can't wait to get my "$2,500" insurance rebate from Obama. He promised it and we surely need it to pay for the "new" insurance that raised our deductible from $3,500 to $7,000, moved prescriptions so that we have to meet the $7,000 deductible before prescriptions are included, separated normal "preventative" blood tests so that we have to meet the $7,000 deductible before they pay for blood tests. Yes, ObamaCare is so wonderful. It's going to bankrupt us if we get sick. But what is $7,000 to Obama? He just wasted several million in government revenue to go to Hawaii for another Christmas vacation. He could not care less about us "peons" as long as he lives in luxury. After all, transferring 18% of all private profits into the government to pay for ObamaCare will keep him and his entourage living in luxury while real Americans carry his burden on our backs. Thanks Obama and Merry Christmas.

  • the old switcharoo mesa, AZ
    Dec. 23, 2013 9:15 a.m.

    Same ol conservative agenda. If politifact says something against a liberal they take it as fact and if they say something against a republican the fact is brushed aside as liberal propaganda.

    Ridiculous.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Dec. 23, 2013 9:20 a.m.

    UtahBlueDevil

    See my comment above. I find it humorous that people complain about complainers and journalistic whining when in fact it is the catalyst for change. We are a country of free speech aren't we?

    There are few good men and women these days that speak the facts. Our president and his administration had to lie to get the votes for him to ramrod this through.

    That sir is a fact.

    And why would anyone complain about someone else stating the facts about this legislation when Nancy Pelosi stated we will find out later what they are?

    I believe the people are finally realizing what Obamacare is really about.

    Thank you Charles Krauthammer and other whining journalists.

  • Fred Vaderer Oklahoma City, OK
    Dec. 23, 2013 9:36 a.m.

    UtahBlueDevil:

    Did you really just say the following in defending Obamacare? "Rather than sacrificing to create a better world for our kids, we have the ultimate in entitlement attitude that we are guaranteed greater prosperity, without the sacrifice."

    Obamacare is the "ultimate entitlement". People who work hard are being forced to pay for the entitlement attitudes of those who would rather it were given to them, rather than sacrifice to earn it themselves.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 23, 2013 9:54 a.m.

    Speaking "facts" does nothing.... anyone can do that. Particularly when "facts" are so relative now days.

    @sammyg - as one of my first managers told me, a complaint isn't worth anything without a solution. The difference between those who succeed and those who don't is that those that don't succeed spend all their efforts justifying why they can get ahead, and those who do succeed spend their time finding solutions to those things that would hold them back.

    " Charles Krauthammer and other whining journalists" are just that..... people who live who lack the drive to actual instigate real change. I respect men like Senator Lee - whose politics I don't agree with - but he at least has the courage of his convictions to try to do something.

    Charles Krauthammer - if he proposed one solution - would at least be progressing something. But alas... he does nothing but collect checks through his entitlement whining.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 23, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    @Fred Vaderer - I know it is hard for many to believe, but many of us are not as obsessed by the evil Obamacare as you all are. This is hardly a make it or break it thing in my opinion - either way - on our future as a nation. Many democracies have actual socialized health care - and freedom is still prevails. Obamacare is an economic issue, not a political one. There are far greater risk to our freedom than Obamacare.

    And yes, I actually said that. We forget the hard work of the previous generations - to ensuring that employees had decent health care, that one could actually retire securely. The current "entitled" generation fervently believes they shouldn't have to pay for anything, feels no responsibility to those who came before that earned the standard of living we currently enjoy. Its all about "me" and "my money" and "my paycheck".

    Ultra conservatives claim it is for their children they fight - and yet choose not to fund education, and willingly sell off resources so that they can have theirs now, with little investment in future resources... showing little concern for future generations. Yes... ultra conservatives are the ultimate self entitled minded class.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Dec. 23, 2013 11:46 a.m.

    Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah
    I can't wait to get my "$2,500" insurance rebate from Obama. He promised it and we surely need it to pay for the "new" insurance that raised our deductible

    =====

    Bleet, bleet, bleet....
    Complains a man about ready to sign up for Social Security and Medicare.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Dec. 23, 2013 11:53 a.m.

    Charles Krauthammer and the rest of the FoxNews pundits crack me up.

    They propose nothing,
    Complain about everything,
    Opine about a select few things,
    and in order to make real changes, refuse to run for office in anything.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Dec. 23, 2013 12:20 p.m.

    "he does nothing but collect checks through his entitlement whining."

    "Entitlement whining" is what founded this country. Leave it to a lib to criticize free speech when it doesn't suit their agenda. LOL

    Therefore all libs are hypocrites.

    And the president and his lapdogs still lied about Obamacare.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 23, 2013 12:34 p.m.

    Kirk R Graves,

    Nixon was not impeached. He resigned before being impeached because he saw the writing on the wall. But he was not impeached, he resigned.

    Bill Clinton is the only modern President who Congress actually voted to impeach. This is a quote regarding the numerical facts on the subject... "Bill Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives on two charges, one of perjury and one of obstruction of justice, on December 19, 1998... A two-thirds majority (67 Senators) was required to remove Clinton from office. Fifty Senators voted to remove Clinton on the obstruction of justice charge and 45 voted to remove him on the perjury charge; no Democrat voted guilty on either charge".

    So Clinton was saved because ZERO Democrats agreed he committed any crime, and Republicans didn't have the 2/3rds majority needed.

    So bottom line... Bill Clinton was impeached (that's step one), but the vote to remove him from office for those offenses failed (step 2). But being impeached and being removed from office are 2 separate but related events.

    ---

    I think it's interesting that Nixon lies and America is embarrassed, but Obama lies and nobody is even surprised.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 23, 2013 12:49 p.m.

    Mike Richards

    RE "I can't wait to get my "$2,500" insurance rebate from Obama"...

    I don't qualify for a rebate. But I'm glad you will get your $2,500. That will just be another $2,500 that a tax payer like me paid to the Government, that actually goes to you instead of the Government.

    I don't know how much I pay in taxes, but if there are too many people like you who chip away $2,500 a whack at what I pay in... there may be nothing left to run the Government.

    I really don't see how the Government can go around handing out money, and run a businesses like the largest Healthcare insurance company in the US (with premiums they know won't cover the expenses)... and still run the Government.

    I guess they just feel they have so much money coming in... they can afford to do all this.

    And they can always raise taxes anytime they want, as long as they promise it won't affect the majority (so they are guaranteed the numbers to approve raising the taxes on just a small vilified group of Americans).

  • jester6 cedar hills, UT
    Dec. 23, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    @theoldswitcheroo

    Perfect moniker for an Obama acolyte. But that's okay. You can keep your screen name if you like your screen name.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Dec. 23, 2013 2:16 p.m.

    2 bits,

    Maybe my attempt at humor failed. Obama promised each family in America $2,500 REDUCTION in insurance costs per year. He promised us that we could keep our existing plans and our existing doctors. Because of him, my insurance rates have drastically gone up. There is no "savings". He lied. I couldn't keep my existing plan. He lied. I don't know yet which doctors will honor my insurance. He lied about that too.

    Airnaut,

    It's good to know that you would prepay for gas or groceries your whole life, not because you wanted to, but because the government forced you to, and then when it was finally time to redeem those credits, someone from the Department of Defense would ridicule you for actually expecting the government to keep its promise. How noble of you to expect me to give away over $300,000 "contributed" to Social Security and many, many thousands "contributed" to Medicare. Maybe you're paid much too much if you can afford to prepay your retirement and then have some young whippersnapper tell you that you don't deserve the promised "benefits". How very gracious of you, but thanks for your concern.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    Dec. 23, 2013 2:22 p.m.

    I never have supported the ACA. I was optimistic it might work. Now I am convinced the critics are right. It is as flawed as they predicted. We did need changes in Healthcare. Stop insurance companies from dropping coverage on sick people and find ways to insure the uninsurable. Health care is to expensive for even the wealthy. Find ways to help the uninsured and leave the rest of alone. It's that simple.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Dec. 23, 2013 3:17 p.m.

    Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah
    How noble of you to expect me to give away over $300,000 "contributed" to Social Security and many, many thousands "contributed" to Medicare.

    =====

    Oh I see,
    NOW you feel "entitled" to it.

    How "noble" of you.

    btw -- I've chiped over the last 44 years as well,
    and yes -- I feel entitled to it.
    And I'm OK with it.

    BUT
    I'm being honest,
    I don't say one thing, and then do the polar opposite,
    I live a life of integrity.

    But, thanks for your concern.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Dec. 23, 2013 5:06 p.m.

    The DN blogosphere seems to be overheating and maybe that's due to your traditional marriage being threatned. People need to lighten up and stay objective. Krauthammer is an entertainer. He is getting paid to entertain his audience. Look at the demographics of Fox News and those that follow him. For the most part they are white, elderly, middle to upper class, and religous. His acts are written to entertain those people and hating BO and the ACA feeds right into their wheelhouse. If your annoyed by his writings simply don't read them. Or better yet, educate yourself and sharpen your arguments to add to a healthy debate.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Dec. 23, 2013 9:55 p.m.

    Airnaut says that he deserves his Social Security and Medicare because he paid into it, but nobody else does. Why should his "contribution" be honored but the "contributions" of anyone with whom he disagrees should be seized and given to other liberals?

    Krauthammer was absolutely correct. Obama lied. The tragedy of that is that his supporters believe those lies. Some of us would question their ability to think for themselves. When Obama speaks, they jump. When Obama blames Bush, they cheer. When Obama tells them that Benghazi was caused by a movie, they nod their heads in agreement. When Obama tells them that Catholic owned hospitals must pay for contraceptives and abortions, they agree.

    Read the posts and see for yourselves. Read how they blame anyone who doesn't think like they do. What is their plan for success? All they can do is blame Republicans and Conservatives. Are they even aware that Obama added $6,000,000,000,000 to the deficit? Are they aware that he will add another $4,000,000,000,000 to the deficit before he leaves office? What is their plan? Do they even have a plan - except to blame Bush?

  • Reason?? Farr West, UT
    Dec. 24, 2013 12:27 p.m.

    To LDS Liberal, it is difficult to have your chosen dogma shown to be without merit or gredibility. The first step in recovery is to admit that you have a problem. To discredit the messenger does nothing to discredit the truth.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 24, 2013 9:57 p.m.

    We are starting to expect lies and this program to go hand-in-hand. They seem to be constant companions. The ACA signup deadline came and passed, but they changed it. Why would we expect anything else.

    I don't see how this program makes healthcare more affordable. The actual cost will not change, and will in fact continue to rise with at least the same rapidity as it has for years. This law only changes WHO PAYS. But in the end the same amount is paid (just by other people).

    The GOOD things about this program are the outlawing not covering pre-existing condition,s and the State Insurance Exchanges, but we could have gotten that without the rest of the 2000 pages of rules, exceptions for votes, and loopholes.

    I expect some people will like it. But some won't. But that's tough. It's here to stay.

    We won't get the next big change until the system collapses. This program is designed to nudge us in that direction. It's a baby-step for progressives, not the end-step.

  • happy2bhere clearfield, UT
    Dec. 26, 2013 7:27 a.m.

    Yes LDS Liberal, and all others supporting the ACA, at least admit that the biggest obxymoron in political history is the term "Affordable Health Care Act". The real title should be the "More Expensive Health Care, With Less Coverage Act". Because that is what many will be getting. The only provision of the ACA that should be kept in (if it is in there at all) is the ability of people with pre-existing conditions to get health care without it being financially ruining. But the rest of this mess, throw it out and hit the restart button.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 26, 2013 8:02 a.m.

    World not going too well right now is it conservatives?

    This whole lie thing is ridiculous and pure theatre as another poster said. Regardless of what the President said or meant, one of the primary intents of the law was to force an upgrade of minimum coverage. Everyone knew this that knew anything about the law at all.

    The plan was millions of policies would have to change (or as conservatives say lose their policies). Millions would get cheaper policies and millions would have to pay more for more coverage, and guess what that's exactly how it's working out.

    The Presidents statement hasn't changed any of this he just stepped in a political mud hole is all.

    My guess from reading most of the comments is that the law and the Presidents statement hasn't effected the insurance coverage one bit for most if not all of the posters except to provide fodder for their anger.

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    Dec. 26, 2013 8:48 a.m.

    Pragmatistferlife

    The world is going splendidly right now for conservatives. Obama is in the tank and sinking. Democrats in red states are scrambling to become more conservative to win re-election in 2014. Others, like Matheson are running for the hills instead of running for reelection. And public opinion polls are showing that Americans are finally waking up to what a mess this turn to Democrats has caused this country. No, prag.... I'm quite happy with how things are going right now.

  • Mkithpen Sandy, UT
    Dec. 26, 2013 9:11 a.m.

    Dr Charles hit the nail on the head. Just ask any of your many Canadian friends that now calls Utah home. We are headed for terrible ahead relative to healthcare (the state issues are starting to get bad thanks to our Gov, but thats for another day).

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 26, 2013 9:42 a.m.

    SCfan, you just keep thinking that bud.

    Obama is in the tank, the Republicans have fallen through the floor. Nearly 60% of Americans favor or want a more liberal ACA law.

    Well over two thirds of Americans favor same sex marriage, and Utah...well.

    Who cares if Democrats in "red states" are becoming more conservative they weren't progressive in the first place and couldn't be counted for basic Democratic policies ever. The point is red states are becoming more radical in general and it's not working on any kind of a national scale.

    So once again you just keep thinking.

    BTW that rino Christie is the only one of the potential '16 Presidential candidates that even comes close to Hillary in at this point. Point being the arrow doesn't point in the direction you think it does.

  • Jleydsman utah, UT
    Dec. 26, 2013 12:50 p.m.

    A tyrant is defined as "any person who exercises his authority in an oppressive manner" such as king George of England. Our founding Fathers created the constitution to protect against tyranny. When a tyrant rules the people mourn! Food for thought!

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 27, 2013 3:34 p.m.

    @happy2behere
    "at least admit that the biggest obxymoron in political history is the term "Affordable Health Care Act"."

    Healthcare costs recently have increased at the slowest rate in half a century. The ACA has of course largely not gone into effect yet though so it's role is somewhat minimal. Certainly wasn't hurting anything. Now for this upcoming year, you all seem to forget the massive subsidies and the Medicaid expansion (maybe because only blue states are actually doing that expansion). Hannity had a special with three couples affected by Obamacare. Factchecking afterwards showed that the guy talking about laying off employees only has half a dozen and isn't subject to the employer mandate. The other two couples there were plans on the market that were better and cheaper for them, they just didn't find them (one openly said she didn't look at all). Maybe you all just aren't looking and are just assuming something that doesn't exist.

    I know one friend of mine was severely harmed, only because Obamacare doesn't give subsidies to the Medicaid expansion range since it assumed all states would expand it. Utah didn't.

  • Alfred Phoenix, AZ
    Dec. 29, 2013 12:01 a.m.

    "Bush lied and a million Iraqis died."

    Bush didn't lie... He merely acted on intelligence sources... And he asked the Congress for approval, i.e., 'Authorization to Use Military Force in Iraq' -- voted on approved by many Democrats including Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, and Joe Biden.

    "Birth certificate, Kenya, death panels, it wasn't our idea.... last years biggest lies."

    Birth certificate: Has numerous unexplained problems casting doubt on authenticity. The reason he will not supply his college documents is that they probably show he registered as a foreign student.

    Death panels: if your young you don't have a worry. If your old count on not getting needed health care. As he says --- 'just go home and take a pain pill.'

    "So if you're upset at how the government is working, just remember that ALL of your representatives voted to keep the US government shut down and out of business."

    The Republican-controlled House passed several bills to fund the government, keeping it open. The Democrat-controlled Senate refused to take up the bills. So, who closed down the government?