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In our opinion: Defender of faiths

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  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 8:38 a.m.

    We always fail to see the irony in the fact that we complain that the people of god are being persecuted by people of god. Religion is poison, and it enables violence that otherwise is unjustifiable.

  • RFLASH Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 9:24 a.m.

    You should consider the hate that some of these people have towards Americans. What happens when we open our mouths and condemn them. Will it cause more anger towards Christians? It could cause them to lash out and persecute them even more, just to spite us! It is horrible what human beings can do to other humans!It isn't just an issue for Obama or Democrats. Don't any of the Republicans have mouths on them? Isn't that why we choose representatives. Include yourselves in the process. It is important. I feel so much gratitude for living in a country where we have been able to worship God without fearing for our lives! It hasn't always been perfect, but we do have a system that helps us to work through these issues. The gay issue is one. It deals with our beliefs in God and it is testing us in determining these rights. I am gay. I believe in God! I believe He would not condemn me for being gay! Do I have a right and freedom to live according to how I believe? We should think about it!

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 9:26 a.m.

    'He became one of the few Western leaders to speak out loudly against the systematic persecution of Christians in the Middle East.'


    And yet today, we find people rallying against gay marriage in Utah because of what their 'God' tells them.

    Freedom of religion starts with yourself.

    It does NOT move on to anyone else, regardless of their consent.

    That, is tyranny.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    Do you also decry the persecution of Muslims in Europe and America?

    Why are you only concerned about he persecution of Christians in regards to religious freedom? Don't the others count?

  • SEY Sandy, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 9:38 a.m.

    Anti-religion and atheism are also religions.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 9:37 a.m.

    The greatest danger to freedom of religion comes from religious organizations, otherwise known as Churches. And as business organizations themselves rightly expect to be promoted just a much as other business originations by their business oriented governments.

    I think that in America most people believe that government should not interfere or support churches either pro or con. It would be good if Churches felt that way also.

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 11:10 a.m.

    My response to this editorial is that if you want to protect Christians in a certain country or region then keep the US Military and State Dept as far away as possible. The last Christian church in Afghanistan was razed under American watch. So what exactly was the point of the longest war in American history? Say what you will about Saddam Hussein, Mubarak and Assad but at least they protected the Christians in their countries. Then the US gets involved and Christians are either murdered or forced to flee. Our military has been so neutered by the left wing thought police that they were actually burning bibles in Afghhanistan.
    To all the posters who criticize organized religion tell me what our culture is in America. What is it about us other countries should aspire to? Abortion clinics? Gay marriage? The cult of global warming?
    Over 76% of Americans identify as Christians but we still allow rogue judges to rip crosses off war memorials and to overturn properly enacted state constitutional amendments affirming marriage as the union of one man and one woman. If we have no confidence in our culture its hard to expect anyone else to.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Dec. 22, 2013 11:41 a.m.

    Those who mock God will insist that cowering in a corner is the only way to emulate God's teachings. They have no understanding of the words "meek and lowly". They forget that Christ, the most meek and lowly of all, braided a whip and chased the money changers from the temple, telling them that they had made the temple a den of thieves.

    A "den of thieves" take that which is holy and sacred and turn it to their advantage. They tell us that, because we are "Christians", we must accept them on their terms as they turn the world upside down. They tell us that no matter what God has said, they will define every sacred thing.

    Prince Charles is to be commended. He defends Christianity. President Obama will never defend Christianity. He cannot. He openly works against the principles of Christianity that protect and preserve life. He openly works against agency and accountability by forcing people to look to government. He openly advocates the redefinition of "marriage" and "family". Prince Charles understands the importance of God. President Obama has much to learn from Prince Charles. World leaders need to emulate Prince Charles.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Dec. 22, 2013 1:26 p.m.

    Over the years I have had many students who were refugees from violence in foreign countries. It is startling how much of this is rooted in religion. I wish I could say it was only the "bad guys" like Iran and Syria who do this, but America's allies like Saudi Arabia are just as guilty.

    How to change thousands of years of bigotry is not a simple question. Sometimes when leaders denounce other countries publicly they only make matters worse.

  • the old switcharoo mesa, AZ
    Dec. 22, 2013 5:32 p.m.

    The way we promote religious freedom here in the US is to deny others their own non-majority religious freedom.

    I don't think religious freedom means what you think it does.

  • a_voice_of_reason Woods Cross, UT
    Dec. 22, 2013 5:56 p.m.

    @Hutterite - "Religion is poison"

    I disagree. You would cite the Inquisition, radical Islamic terrorists, and the Holocaust as your examples. Both radical examples of relatively small groups of people when you consider all of the violence and evil in the world. Consider all of the people in our prison system. How many committed their crimes based on religion? Now, I submit to you all of the goodwill, charity, service, etc. that is performed in the month between Thanksgiving and Christmas Day alone. Whether you are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or Atheist, one cannot deny that the idea of Christmas brings good to millions of people. To call it poison is to take a narrow view of religion. You may not agree with a religion or any religion, but to speak in such ridiculous absolutes makes you sound simply bitter and ignorant. All the same, Merry Christmas!

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Dec. 22, 2013 7:28 p.m.

    I find that many more people want "freedom for THEIR religion" than there are that actually want "freedom of religion"

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Dec. 22, 2013 8:14 p.m.

    RanchHand,

    My "sermons" are the same "sermons" that you preached when you were a missionary. Has God changed? Has His message changed? Have you changed?

    The world is looking for answers. Those answers come from Deity, not from fellow travelers. If the road you travel is different that the road you preached, maybe it's time to find the correct road. Christ has not changed. His gospel has not changed. His doctrine has not changed. His prophets preach the same principle that you preached when you represented Him.

    What has changed?

    Prince Charles knows that the world cannot continue on the path that people are taking. You once said the same thing. Why is your message different now?

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Dec. 22, 2013 9:50 p.m.

    Nice to see an article about what true persecution looks like - I was getting tired of the many articles we usually see about how the “trimming around the edges” (i.e., insuring others are equal) of the once 100% ubiquitous & dominant religion in this country is somehow persecution.

    Thank you DN for some much needed perspective…

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Dec. 23, 2013 7:22 a.m.

    The English Monarchy is also head of the Church of England.
    He has a political as well as ecclesiastical responsibility say something.

    BTW --
    I find it oh so ironic and hypocritical that those giving "sermons" and "commending" Prince Charles,
    sought to deny Muslims their "Constitutioanl" Freedom of Religion rights here.

    and I also remind the preacher that Prince Charles divorced his wife and openly lived with is mistress for several decades.

    President Obama has done neither.

  • Jamescmeyer Midwest City, USA, OK
    Dec. 23, 2013 9:18 a.m.

    I'm surprised and impressed that Prince Charles would care enough to stand and remark about the continuing violence faced by Christians in those parts of the world in which they are not a majority.

    It also shames me somewhat, that the president of the United States has not-and certainly will not-pursue any greater token or effort to this, the one most important enabler and indicater of success for any nation, especially and including our current world powers.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Dec. 23, 2013 9:27 a.m.

    Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah

    They forget that Christ, the most meek and lowly of all, braided a whip and chased the money changers from the temple, telling them that they had made the temple a den of thieves.

    President Obama has much to learn from Prince Charles. World leaders need to emulate Prince Charles.

    11:41 a.m. Dec. 22, 2013

    ========

    Jesus braided a whip and chased out the Money-Changers,
    and Money-Changers are CAPITALISTS.

    WallStreet is our Latter-day version of a Den of Thieves.

    BTW - England is Socialist.
    Are you changing your mid now?
    Is that what you want Obama to learn from the Prince.
    Is that what you want him to emulate?

    Your double-talk hypocrasy confuses me.

  • 1covey Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 23, 2013 10:27 a.m.

    In a region where Muslims kill other Muslims(Shiite vs Shia), what can you expect? Can it be changed? One wonders. I do not believe Europeans are killing Muslims. Cultural differences can be very difficult to reconcile, but effort must be made to do so.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 23, 2013 10:50 a.m.

    @airnaut
    "Jesus braided a whip and chased out the Money-Changers,
    and Money-Changers are CAPITALISTS.

    WallStreet is our Latter-day version of a Den of Thieves."

    ---------
    Jesus chased out the money-changers because they were desecrating the holy temple. It had nothing to do with capitalism, and everything to do with being sacrilegious at the temple.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 23, 2013 11:06 a.m.

    When a Muslim Mosque is accidentally damaged in a battle... our government apologizes profusely (and it was an accident). But when dozens of Christian churches are INTENTIONALLY destroyed... nobody expects an apology.

    I don't understand why this dichotomy is acceptable to so many people. Attacking churches should be off limits regardless of what side you are on.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Dec. 23, 2013 1:09 p.m.

    If your God isn't going to protect you while you build a church in hostile territory,
    than maybe your not faithful enough, or your God's not as powerful as their God.

    Either way your not getting the message.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Dec. 23, 2013 2:36 p.m.

    Utes Fan
    Salt Lake City, UT
    @airnaut
    "Jesus braided a whip and chased out the Money-Changers,
    and Money-Changers are CAPITALISTS.

    WallStreet is our Latter-day version of a Den of Thieves."

    ---------
    Jesus chased out the money-changers because they were desecrating the holy temple. It had nothing to do with capitalism, and everything to do with being sacrilegious at the temple.

    10:50 a.m. Dec. 23, 2013

    ===========

    Really?

    I disagree.

    There are no "money-changers" in Heaven.
    and it had everything to do with Capitalism.

    Even in our modern Temples,
    the money changed [clothing, cafeteria, etc.] is to simply cover the costs,
    and NOT make a single penny is ever taken in for profit [capital].

    He didn't care what the people did it outside of the Temple,
    but he threw out the Capitalists from the Temple for doing it.

    On Earth as it is in Heaven.