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Letter: Obamacare trickery

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  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    Dec. 14, 2013 6:10 a.m.

    Art. Haven't you learned anything about liberals? Any means to achieve their goal of Marxism in America, their last world conquest! Lying is ok, cheating just fine as long as it forces "social justice" (soft word for communism) upon America. This Obamacare bait and switch is just the latest, but it won't be the last! Why won't it be the last? Because millions of voters are addicted to their "free cheese". China, Russia, Cuba, N Korea et al did it with their tanks and machine guns of their military but our liberals are doing with free entitlements. The only problem American liberals like Obama, Pelosi and Reid have is paying for it all! They are running out of other people's money, especially our grandchildren's money ($20 trillion national debt by 2016). And as they constantly tell us, its all GWB's and the GOP's fault when the rest of us demand accountability and honesty from them!

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 7:25 a.m.

    So how does Obama intend to move us to single payer when his credibility is shot?

  • Onion Daze Payson, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 8:02 a.m.

    Art and friends: Please look at "List of countries by unemployment rate" at Wikipedia.

    Here are a few selected countries.

    Denmark 6.7 percent
    Germany 5.2 percent
    Greece 27.6 percent
    Italy 12.0 percent
    Norway 3.5 percent
    Spain 27.2 percent
    Sweden 7.3 percent
    Switzerland 3.1 percent
    United Kingdom 7.7 percent
    United States 7.2 percent

    Some of those nefarious European Socialist countries are doing better than us (USA). That is in spite of the "fact" that Mr. Obama "lies" in bed at night trying to come up with better ways to destroy this country.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 8:06 a.m.

    Actually, a single payer system offers greater freedom in that it does not tie you to any specific job just to get health care, and it removes a huge monkey off the backs of employers.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 8:15 a.m.

    I agree. Devious people has been causing chaos for ever. the only way for evil to triumph, is when good people do nothing. The problem is the frog in the pot slowly being boiled to death.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Dec. 14, 2013 8:21 a.m.

    What ObamaCare has done is show us the character of those who foisted that program on America. It shows which politicians would offer bribes to other politicians (Louisiana, Nebraska, unions). It showed which politicians would use power and authority to deny others time to fully read the bill (Pelosi and Reid). It showed which politician refused to implement the law, as written, choosing instead to postpone the effects of that legislation until after he was out of office (Obama). It showed which judges ignored authorized enumerated duties in the Constitution and declared that ObamaCare was a tax and that Congress had the authority to tax us - totally ignoring the limits that the people placed on Congress on what Congress can tax us for (headed by Chief Justice Roberts).

    The test of life is to have our character revealed. ObamaCare has done that. It has shown us how many scoundrels have been elected to public office. It has shown us the depth of their corruption.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 14, 2013 8:42 a.m.

    Oh my word give it a break. It's the law, it's under way, and your ideological rants about socialism and communism are just....I'll get bounced for saying it.

  • Zac Ogden, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 8:49 a.m.

    The President is on record for wanting a single payer system. Pelosi and Reid, the leaders of congress at the time the bill passed, are on record for wanting a single payer system. The person tapped to be in charge, Sebelius, is on record for wanting a single payer system. With these four leaders, knowing what they want, is there any question that this was designed to not work.

    Remember when Pelosi said that we need to pass it to see what's in it. That also means that no leader understood it, which is why the President continually gets a pass for his lies...er "misstatements". The reason it needed to be passed so quickly, is that if people did actually read it and begin to understand it, then there would have been no way for the bill to pass. Oh, but wait, there were some people that did get their hands on some of it, and did try to warn the public. But, they continually (and continue) to be labeled as racist or something.

    Continued...

  • Zac Ogden, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 8:54 a.m.

    Continued...

    One of the biggest reasons, I think, this bill was designed to not work...There are people who keep saying that this is just "a step in the right direction". Is it any wonder where these people's steps are leading us. This was designed to put so much incompetence out that would make people take even more steps in their direction. Those steps lead to what the four leaders are on record for desiring. With the end being more and more control.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 9:03 a.m.

    Communist China is at 6.5% and moving to biggest economy in the world. Using the private insurance companies to provide healthcare is hardly socialist. the random throwing around of 1950's labels is absurd.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 9:02 a.m.

    Yea for Socialism, it’s the part of civilized society the makes modern living possible.

    If it is choice you want, go live by yourself outside civilized society. You can do any thing you want and have all the freedom to boot. Just don’t expect to do or have any of the things provided by the social agreement of socialized society.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 9:16 a.m.

    Mike, please direct me to the part of the ObamaCare where I might read that information for myself.

    Is the test of life available for our use with local and state Politians as well?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 10:11 a.m.

    Socialism doesn't set up a private insurance marketplace... and this sure wasn't socialism when the Heritage Foundation was proposing it, or when the Republican alternative to Hillarycare was the individual mandate (she had the employer mandate), or when Romney instituted it. But no, only when Obama does it is it socialism.

  • GZE SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 10:27 a.m.

    Please name the insurance companies that have gone out of business. How many people do you, personally, know who have actually lost their insurance? Please name a doctor who is being forced to participate and define your use of the word forced.

    All of this is appears to be an urban myth. I have yet to see an identity of a single person who is losing everything because of the Affordable Care Act.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 10:53 a.m.

    I am amazed by the over-the-top hyperbole of the ACA's conservative critics.

    The individual mandate and state-run exchanges of PRIVATE insurance providers was a Republican idea. It's exactly what Massachusetts adopted, and has run successfully, for years.
    I get it - there's no limit to how much you guys just hate-hate-hate that Obama. No objective evidence can change your opinion.

    But here's a dose of reality that you really need to deal with: The ACA is here to stay. There's not a snowball's chance in Death Valley that it will be repealed or defunded.

    People are signing up for health insurance in increasing numbers. People who previously couldn't afford, or buy at any price, insurance are now getting insured. Healthcare inflation is now going _down_. Junk policies are being replaced by real insurance plans. The ACA is working.

    If you continue to rant about "socialism" while the rest of the country moves on to other issues, you're only guaranteeing that there won't be another Republican in the White House for at least another generation.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Dec. 14, 2013 10:58 a.m.

    ACA works well for my family. Grown kids now have affordable insurance of their own they couldn't get before, and it was far easier to get it. My own coverage is unchanged. Things look good from here.

  • WestGranger West Valley City, Utah
    Dec. 14, 2013 11:00 a.m.

    It's law. Yes. It's a law that was grossly misrepresented and whose end results has proven to be much more expensive and quite different than what we were led to believe.There are other ways to help those without insurance.How can its harmful effect on the economy and therefore the poor be so blatantly ignored? Polls show most people do not like Obamacare, and do not trust Pres. Obama anymore. Even with its mandates and its bureaucratic red tape, fascism has now been passively accepted by a large segment of the population,

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 14, 2013 11:21 a.m.

    Insurance companies were dropping and denying people coverage pre ACA--where was the Republican outrage then?
    How much of the current change in policies is due directly to ACA and how much is due to routine insurance companies trying to push people into more profitable plans?

    I understood Obama's statement about keeping your plan meant people who were covered by employers and/or who didn't have junk/plans.

    "In his book The Audacity of Hope , published in October 2006 when he was a U.S. senator, Obama described single-payer as the hope of the left, while those on the right wanted a market-based approach. "It's time we broke this impasse by acknowledging a few simple truths," Obama wrote, suggesting a system much like the one he supports today.

    At his town halls as president, he routinely answers questions about single-payer by saying he would favor it if he were starting a system "from scratch." But he consistently adds that's not the goal of the current reform."
    (Politifact)

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Dec. 14, 2013 11:36 a.m.

    "It has been through deceit and trickery that the new health care law (Obamacare) was implemented."

    That's what politicians do... they promise stuff to get elected then they do their own thing.

  • Sven Morgan, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 12:15 p.m.

    pragmatistferlife said:

    "Oh my word give it a break. It's the law, it's under way, and your ideological rants about socialism and communism are just....I'll get bounced for saying it."

    Hmmm, if this law is "under way" as you say, how come Obama has delayed the "employer mandate" provision in Obamacare until just after the 2014 mid-terms? Let me help you: the amount of people who will lose their insurance through their employer in order to comply with Obamacare is going to be staggering. Obama and the Dems know if they were to let the employer mandate get "under way" as you suggest, they would take unimaginable loses in the mid-term elections.

    It's amazing that Obama can lie to your face, and you willingly support his destruction of our healthcare system. And we thought the individual mandate was bad? Just wait until 2014. Funny you Leftists never address the delay in the employer mandate.

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 12:21 p.m.

    I agree with Art in spirit but disagree that Obamacare ushers in Socialism in healthcare because we already essentially had/have socialized healthcare. Well over half of all healthcare spending prior to the ACA was Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP etc. The fact is Americans were about 10% free before ACA and Dodd-Frank were passed. Now we're about 5% free. Yes, we're free to ogle pornography if we choose, free to abort unborn babies and free to rip crosses off war memorials but not free in any true sense of the word.
    If you aren't free to make your own healthcare arrangements without the approval of an unelected bureaucrat at HHS then you are a serf. If you aren't allowed to buy a home (with cash) without the approval of an unelected bureaucrat at HUD then you are a serf. It's scary how comfortable the American left is with this.
    And I won't even get into how the IRS- the most feared government agency in America (and Obama's private attack dog apparently) is tied in with the ACA

  • Sven Morgan, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 12:33 p.m.

    Irony Guy said:

    "ACA works well for my family. Grown kids now have affordable insurance of their own they couldn't get before, and it was far easier to get it. My own coverage is unchanged. Things look good from here."

    Do you receive your current health insurance from your employer? If you do, this will be going bye bye in 2014. Obama has delayed the employer mandate portion until after the 2014 mid-terms. Hmm, now why would that be?

    Sadly, it will be the young and healthy in our society who will be tasked (ordered) to pay for the brunt of Obamacare. These young people (after the age of 26) are just discovering that not only will they have to purchase health insurance or pay a fine, but will indeed be eating the cost for this disaster for their entire future. Any wonder that Obama is losing support from young voters. These young college age kids ate up the ideas of socialism, collectivism, and wealth redistribution they heard from their leftist college professors. Funny how things change when they become victims of these destructive ideas.

    "If you like your current health insurance you can keep it..." Pfft!

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 12:55 p.m.

    Wah, wah, wah. It's too bad that someone has attempted to assist your neighbor to be able to afford insurance (a scam in it's own right) to pay for their healthcare. For the first time in 40 years the cost of healthcare over all has leveled off since the law was passed and as near as I can tell that's good for you too. If your neighbor doesn't declare bankruptcy it's good for yours. If your neighbor doesn't go the ER for healthcare it's good for you because it's you paying for it. I for one favor HR676. Medicare for all. A single payer system that has worked an is popular. It's administered for 3% compared to 33% on average. But not to worry, as Americans we can't figure out how to do what's good for us all like what works well in the rest of the industrialized world. We like paying double the price because it makes us feel exceptional.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 14, 2013 2:01 p.m.

    Lets see, the plan still isn't in force yet…. and we have already decided how its going to end.

    If this was a football game, the author would be the dude in the parking lot complaining that he knew the game was going to be a bust because there is a line to get into the parking lot. We haven't even had the kickoff yet… and the author has decided the final score of the game.

    I think I am going to spend more time with sports than politics going forward. At least there the people on both sides know their arguments are totally subjective. Here, people actually believe their own silly arguments. We had more than a few proclaim Obama wasn't going to get re-elected… and now we are going to listen to them on their predictions for the US health care system. Laughable in the least.

    Lets get the game started - then start pontificating the outcome. Until, complaints about the traffic jam trying to get to the game are fully justified… but it isn't the game by any measure.

  • nonceleb Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 2:30 p.m.

    When are we going to stop calling the ACA socialism?! We do not have the "socialized" medicine of Canada or European nations. That would be a single payer system, which was rejected. Even the "public option" (having both private and government health insurance options) was scuttled. The mandate is through PRIVATE insurance companies, was originated by conservatives (the Heritage Foundation) as an alternative to socialized medicine and was a COMPROMISE. Please, for the sake of our sanity, quit calling it a government takeover of health care.

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 4:47 p.m.

    @UtahBlueDevil- Au Contraire mon frere- the "game" has begun. If you were one of the millions of Americans who received a cancellation from their insurance company and lost the policy that you were happy with then the plan has started for them. Like most compassionate liberals though you understand that to make an omelette you have to crack some eggs right?

  • E Sam Provo, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 5:04 p.m.

    We'll see. I've got a standing wager: by 2016, the ACA will be working so well, and will be so popular, that it will not be a Republican issue in the Presidential campaign. Takers?

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 8:29 p.m.

    Still waiting GeForce ANYONE to respond to GZE and show this letter is anything other then empty rhetoric .

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 9:20 p.m.

    Not sure we're GeForce came from that should read "waiting for anyone"

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2013 11:12 p.m.

    The rants and raves that the Deseret News publishes from a few select people (that we all know by name) is getting to be a study in negativity. The Deseret News will publish letters from those people who call their adversaries all sorts of names, such as liars, deceitful, dishonest. They call our duly elected President names that are inappropriate. But when we tell those same people that they are not informed and we are frankly sick of their whining and frankly lying, the Deseret News won't publish our letters. Get a clue! People really are getting sick of those same few people ranting and raving. I'd like to see them offer solutions! The Deseret News,(which I pay a subscription to) ought to be more open to a more middle of the road approach. My Mother recently said, if it was called Romney Care and Mitt was in the White House the exact same "Obama care program" would be heralded as superior!

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 15, 2013 7:20 a.m.

    "Like most compassionate liberals though you understand that to make an omelette you have to crack some eggs right??

    Actually, I guess, yes. Any change, conservative, liberal, or non-partisan based is a change from something known to something new, and will take doing things in new ways, that we know some have problems with. Just like when a sports venue gets upgraded. Some of the seats get cancelled, and moved to new sections. Some of the cheap seats are being eliminated and replaced with cheap seats elsewhere.

    The funny thing here is Obama changed his mind, told people that if who sold these people their tickets would allow, these people could still have their cheap seats for a while longer. If the people are now loosing their cheap seats/plans, it not because of Obama anymore, but the insurers themselves. There is no federal law or rule at this time causing these cancelations.

    Meanwhile the rest of us are I guess already in our seats, waiting for the kickoff. A few with new tickets are filtering into the stadium... should be interesting....

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    Dec. 15, 2013 9:12 a.m.

    Utefan. Imagine what your mother and the Demos would be saying if it had been the GOP that hatched this mess and if a Republican President had lied and said, "If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it, period." Shame on conservatives for requiring accountability and honesty from a Democrat! How dare they? Only Republican politician should be held accountable, Democrats, never!

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2013 12:45 p.m.

    Thid Barker. I can imagine what it is to have been lied to by Republican lawmakers. Look at our own Senator Mike Lee who defiled our country and cost us all billions. I also remember a war that we entered into with lies and mistruths from a Republican administration, that cost us thousands of lives. . It isn't about Republican or democrats lying. They both do. It is about our health care system copied from Mitt Romney's program in Massachusetts that is attempting to get coverage for millions of American families that have no coverage. Question Thid? Have the GOP proposed anything to help with this crisis? Anything except Fox News? I am hearing of thousands of people finally being able to get health care and the Private Insurance Companies are not unhappy. What is your solution other than calling names? PS. I require accountability from all parties. The GOP has been the one most in the spotlight for its terrible handling of the recent Government shutdown. And they are trying to get away from that by changing their ways.....as fast as their little ideals will let them!

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Dec. 15, 2013 4:07 p.m.

    To "Onion Daze" for some of those countries, their low unemployment rate can be explained by their low birth rate.

    For example, Denmark has a birthrate of 1.75, and they have an average family size of 2.1. In other words, they are barely above replacement of the people as they die. Switzerland has an even lower birthrate with 1.4 births per woman, and an average family size of 2.2. However, they also have a high rate of emigration, which means that surplus workers leave.

    Don't just look at the statistics of unemployment rate, you also have to look at the population and see what is going on there.

    To "pragmatistferlife" it is a good thing you were not around during the Civil War, or Women's Suffrage movement, or the Civil Rights movements. There have been all sorts of laws that were passed at one time that have been overturned and made this nation better. Obamacare should be overturned so that we can lower insurance costs, and improve the health insurance industry.

    To "one vote" that is why I prefer to call Obamacare Fascist. The government still controls the companies, but the companies are not owned by the government.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 15, 2013 5:37 p.m.

    GW Bush used "trickery" to start 2 wars in the Middle East, causing hundreds of thousands of deaths, and spending $3 Trillion he didn't fund.

    Where were you conservatives then?

  • Kimber Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2013 5:48 p.m.

    I don't believe that. And we have had a type of what you would call "socialized medicine" since 1965 when Medicare was introduced. I don't think that people would want us to do away with this anytime soon. All of us have a parent, grandparent or friend that gets their healthcare through Medicare. This new healthcare law is not exactly like Medicare. These are regular plans from regular companies like Select Health put together for people that don't have insurance so they can get it. I am very happy to have it after years of going without. People should study up before they make their opinions.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    Dec. 16, 2013 10:55 a.m.

    Why are they delaying the individual mandate until after the 2014 elections? Obama doesn't seem to have a lot of faith in this law.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    Dec. 16, 2013 10:56 a.m.

    Sorry, I meant the employer mandate.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    Dec. 16, 2013 10:59 a.m.

    LDS Liberal.

    "GW Bush used "trickery" to start 2 wars in the Middle East, causing hundreds of thousands of deaths, and spending $3 Trillion he didn't fund.

    Where were you conservatives then?"

    I don't know about everybody else, But I was hating Bush the same way I am hating Obama. He knocked down the towers to start that war.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihuahua, 00
    Dec. 16, 2013 11:11 a.m.

    Just collapse it by refusing to become enrolled.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 16, 2013 12:01 p.m.

    remember this ...we voted for this trickery and socialism twice in 2009 and again 2012 so how stupid are we? Obama is nothing more than a product of a nation that has lost its way.

  • Coach Biff Lehi, UT
    Dec. 18, 2013 11:37 a.m.

    ...Nor do leftists appear to have any idea how this is going to be paid for. They have just voted themselves money from the treasury and they don't care who foots the bill.

  • Coach Biff Lehi, UT
    Dec. 18, 2013 11:46 a.m.

    If taking from those who produce and giving it to those who don't isn't the definition of socialism, then what is it?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 18, 2013 1:44 p.m.

    Patriot…. was it socialism when Bush took away our right to buy medication from cheaper countries, and passed the new add on to medicare for drugs?

    Was it socialism when Reagan passed a law requiring all hospitals to admit and stabilize all patients, regardless of the patients ability to pay?

    At what point is it socialism…. government interfering in free markets such as crop subsidies and tax credits to energy companies…. and when is it business as usual? Is it only socialism when a democrat is in office?

    I see this "socialist" term thrown around so much. Was it socialism when the government handed out free land with the various homestead acts? What is that line between socialism… and what ever else it is you think the other party is practicing?