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Letter: Doctors unite

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  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 6:32 a.m.

    Good one, Diane. Doctors, unite! Renounce your Hippocratic oath, and refuse to treat anyone who has the audacity to carry health insurance (since all health insurance policies now have to comply with the ACA). Treat the 1% only--those who can pay cash for their heart transplant. That'll show 'em. The 99% will rise up and demand to return to the old system where millions have to get their medical care from the ER or just die.

    Oh wait, what if the ER doctors are part of the cabal and refuse to see patients who don't bring fat wallets? Maybe your plan needs a little rethinking, Diane.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 6:48 a.m.

    The medical industry signed off on Obamacare before it was passed. That's why Obama succeeded in getting a bill through congress when Clinton, Nixon, Truman, and both FDR and TR failed.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 7, 2013 7:04 a.m.

    Obamacare will force a two tier healthcare system in America. Because like Medicare and Medicaid, what doctors can charge for their services will be dictated to them at a lower compensation rate as Obamacare doctor remuneration will be. Thus many doctors will not accept government funded patients (many now do not accept medicare or Medicaid patients) and those that do, will have to see many more patients each day in order to keep their doors open with less quality healthcare provided. More and more doctors will elect to refuse government healthcare patients and charge more but provide better services for those who can afford it. Then there will be an effort to excoriate doctors who will not accept socialized medicine and there will be calls for Canadian type laws banning doctors from refusing government healthcare. If that happens, healthcare will in fact have to be rationed.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 7:43 a.m.

    Ridiculous.

  • John Charity Spring Back Home in Davis County, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    Wilson is correct that no patriotic doctor can agree to participate in the Obamacare plan. Accepting left-wing dollars would simply lead to pushing this Country further towards the abyss of socialism.

    When will the ignorant public learn that the government cannot simply pull money out of a hat to pay for entitlement programs? The irrefutable truth is that the government cannot give to one person without taking from another.

    Obamacare is rapidly pushing this Country to the point in which the majority will feel entitled to sit at home while the government provides them with every want and need, with no effort on their own part. Shame on any doctor who chooses to promulgate this attitude.

  • JKR Holladay, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 8:30 a.m.

    Doctors in general and, specifically, the AMA are in favor of the Affordable Care Act (aka "obamacare") for good reason. If you drive a car it needs to be insured. Why should your person be any different? Just try taking care of young people that are injured or develop serious diseases without insurance. Believe, the Homeless and Melahey free clinics cannot carry the burden.

  • Sal Provo, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 8:33 a.m.

    There are already significant numbers of doctors who do not accept medicaid patients. Compounding that problem is the fact that there are not enough doctors to treat the increased numbers of insured. It's nice that so many will have insurance but not nice that they will not have health care.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 7, 2013 8:32 a.m.

    "This Plan" Diane? There is no "plan". You couldn't better have stated the depth of the misinformation about the ACA.

    First of all Diane 95% of Americans with health insurance are going to have the exact same insurance next year as they have this year, no difference.

    Secondly, for those who now purchase insurance because they didn't have it before or have to change to an acceptable policy, they are not going to have an insurance card from United Health Care that says I bought this because Obama made me.

    I'm sure in Diane's mind everyone who buys insurance through one of the exchanges will get a card with a hammer and sickle in the upper right hand corner.

    Why would the DN post a letter like this?

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 8:48 a.m.

    Doctors could also unite in demanding a single payer system that will enable them to see patients on a preventive care basis instead of the patients only seeking aid if and when they can afford it.

  • Spoc Ogden, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 9:21 a.m.

    A noble goal, Diane, to be sure. Unfortunately this administration does not regard the loss of any particular freedom as an obstacle to their agenda of controlling power.

    All they would have to do is extend the concept represented by the requirement that hospitals must treat all patients, regardless of their ability to pay. Physicians might be required to treat all patients, regardless of the type of insurance they have under the guise of not allowing discrimination against the poor.

    The other option might be the government setting up their beloved "single payer" system wherein all doctors become employees of the government health department, insurance would cease to exist, you could not legally go to a physician outside the system, and medical rationing would determine who gets treatment and who does not, and by whom.

    After all, the government knows what is best for you.

    "All animals are equal. But some are more equal than others."
    George Orwell

  • embarrassed Utahn! Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 10:08 a.m.

    And many of you also wanted Romney, but the will of the American people trumps your complaints. Find other ways to soothe yourself would be my suggestion.

    A convincing re-election, and a supreme court ruling ought to be enough for you. Or else you need to ensure that the Republicans take back the Presidency, The House, and The Senate. Good luck with that one. Most of the Nation realizes the damage that Republicans can cause.

    Emergency room visits by uninsured that cost us all a lot is not the answer.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 10:10 a.m.

    So Republicans don't really want to help anything, they just want to sabotage anything related to Obama. Small wonder you lost in 2012, you don't stand FOR anything. You're just blinded by rage against Obama and independents really don't care for a bunch of whiners.

  • All American Herriman, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 10:18 a.m.

    pragmatistferlife said: "95% of Americans with health insurance are going to have the exact same insurance next year as they have this year, no difference."

    Obviously you haven't read enough. Of those 95%, a good percentage of them have already lost their insurance. The rest will most assuredly see a substantial increase in the cost of their employer-provided insurance, which does not constitute "exact same insurance". How is it "exact same insurance" if a 50 year old couple must pay for OB services that they don't pay for now? Or a single man?

    But here's the #1 problem with the ACA: our government cannot afford it. It is unsustainable, period. They call it "affordable care". It's not about "care" at all. It's about insurance and, mostly, control of the "little people".

  • Sven Morgan, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 10:36 a.m.

    pragmatistferlife said:

    "First of all Diane 95% of Americans with health insurance are going to have the exact same insurance next year as they have this year, no difference."

    I guess by 95%, you're accounting for the 5% who've already lost their coverage under the "individual mandate" portion of Obamacare...right? And NO, the remaining 95% of us will NOT be keeping their existing coverage next year. Know why? That's right, that's when the "Employer Mandate" kicks in!

    I guess progressives like you didn't bother to consider why Obama and the Dems decided to postpone the "employer mandate" in Obamacare until after the mid-term elections in 2014. Let me help you here: The numbers of Americans who will be losing their coverage when the employer mandate is going to be staggering! The Democrats and Obama know this, thus the delay of the implementation of the individual mandate.

    The physician shortage is going to only compound this miserable, socialist nightmare!

  • E Sam Provo, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:05 a.m.

    So docs are going to be asking 'why do you have this particular health insurance plan? Did you (gasp) buy it on the healthcare.gov website?' And turn those unpatriotic patients away!
    What a fantasy!

  • Anti Bush-Obama Chihiuahua, 00
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:08 a.m.

    What are they going to do? Force Doctors not to retire or not to quit practicing? My uncle is a doctor and he is going to retire at age 53.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:11 a.m.

    "The physician shortage is going to only compound this miserable, socialist nightmare!"

    Hilarious!

    You do realize that most "socialist" single payer European countries have far more physicians per capita than we do, right? So if you don't want a physician shortage then moving towards a single payer system rather than a "free market" system is the best way to go.

    This letter is the perfect example of Ms. Kathleen Parker's column published a few days ago in The Dnews titled, "The GOP's Toxic Messaging." No solutions offered, just obstructionism and bitterness.

    Could you imagine how much better off we'd be today if the GOP put in just HALF as much effort into coming up with realistic solutions as they have to humiliate Obama over these past 5 years?

    Hopefully after Democrats retake the House in 14 and Hillary is elected in 16, the GOP will finally get the message that they need to change. It isn't going to be pretty or easy. But in the long term, the GOP will be better off without all these tea party, Rush Limbaugh following, and Koch Brother funded bitterness and obstructionism.

  • Sven Morgan, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:42 a.m.

    The Real Maverick said:

    "You do realize that most 'socialist' single payer European countries have far more physicians per capita than we do, right? So if you don't want a physician shortage then moving towards a single payer system rather than a 'free market' system is the best way to go."

    Oh really? Care to explain why the UK is losing physicians at an alarming rate? Care to tell us why their having problems recruiting new physicians in their socialized medicine utopia? Care to tell us why they're attempting to at least partially privatize their utopian health care model? Let me help you, it is a disaster. Their hospitals are abysmal, patients have to wait extended times to be seen by a physician, and they have (as we will have) death panels (aka: "Care Pathways").

    Again, please tell us why Barry and the Dems decided to hold off the implementation of the "Employer Mandate" in Obamacare until after the 2014 mid-terms? ((Crickets))

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:48 a.m.

    If a sufficient number of doctors simply go "on strike" against ACA and/or medicare I can absolutely promise you we will do what Ronald Reagan did with the striking air traffic controllers - we will raise up and train a whole new bunch of physicians who care as much about caring for people as they do about making a pile (so they can retire at 50).

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    I propose an American Physicians Corps (APC). New medical students would be provided with free training. An appropriate number of them would have to train in geriatrics to better serve the growing crop of elderly baby boomers. These APC physicians would agree to serve heretofore under-served populations for fifteen years (and no these newly minted docs need not be poverty cases - just not multimillionaires).

  • Sven Morgan, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    Marxist said:

    "If a sufficient number of doctors simply go 'on strike' against ACA and/or medicare I can absolutely promise you we will do what Ronald Reagan did with the striking air traffic controllers - we will raise up and train a whole new bunch of physicians who care as much about caring for people as they do about making a pile (so they can retire at 50)."

    First, most physicians in this country are not government employees, Air Traffic Controllers are. See the distinction?

    Second, progressives always like to tout the European models of utopian socialized medicine. Care to explain why this recruitment of new physicians in the UK is not working? They are experiencing a serious physician shortage.

    Like a good little liberal, you besmirch any person making a profit for their work. Why don't you go to school for 10+ years or more, and work for a net loss like physicians do under Medicare, and will do even more so under Obamacare?

    I think it's unfair that you make more money than a "poor" person. How selfish of you! Why don't you work for free, or take at least 50% less of what you're making now?

  • Sven Morgan, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 12:13 p.m.

    Marxist:

    As an aside, care to tell us why Marxist dictators throughout history never live under the same misery and serfdom they create for the collectivist population? Also, care to tell us why more people have been massacred under the benevolence of Communism/Marxism than any other system in history.

    Marxism is the antithesis of individuality, freedom, and the pursuit of happiness. The only thing it ever does is provide an equal share of misery for the "Workers."

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 7, 2013 12:17 p.m.

    Sven, you are absolutely wrong. 95% of folks with health insurance get it through their employer and the most reliable assessor of health care in the US the Kaiser Foundation recently said the ACA will have little effect on employer plans except to maybe make small improvements.

    Now there's the key to your statement. You are listening to folks like Mr. Connor who is using a number of around 120 million people who are covered by employer plans who he claims will lose their plans. Actually he is saying that if I have insurance from my employer and this year it doesn't cover my 23 year old son but next year it does because of the ACA I have lost my insurance plan. Balderdash!

    In fact he counts any change at all in an insurance plan as losing a plan..thus the staggering effect.

    Sven, and All American, I hate to be the one to break it to you but when the employer mandate kicks in you're going to have people jumping for joy and yelling finally!

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 7, 2013 12:29 p.m.

    I think we should consider subsidizing medical school costs for the training of more general practitioners, internists, geriatricians etc.
    Medical school students often opt to become specialists because of the medical school debt load and higher income potential.

    Few people are aware Medicare ($9.5 billion) and Medicaid ($2 billion) dollars go toward the costs of residency training for physicians.

    "The payment compensates teaching hospitals for "Medicare's share" of the costs directly related to the training of residents. Medicare does not make payments related to the clinical education of medical students. The added direct costs of GME incurred by teaching hospitals include: stipends and fringe benefits of residents; salaries and fringe benefits of faculty who supervise the residents; other direct costs; and allocated institutional overhead costs, such as maintenance and electricity. Other direct costs include, for example, the cost of clerical personnel who work exclusively in the GME administrative office."
    (Assoc of American Medical Colleges)

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 7, 2013 1:14 p.m.

    Re:Sven
    "Care to explain why this recruitment of new physicians in the UK is not working? They are experiencing a serious physician shortage."

    According to 2012-2013 figures provided by the Kaiser Family Foundation, and WHO, the U.S. has fewer physicians (24.2) per capita than the UK (27.7). Switzerland, (40.8), Norway (41.6) and many other industrialized countries have far more.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 1:21 p.m.

    I most heartily concur with the idea of doctors who oppose Obamacare for whatever reason should retire from medical practice and never return.

    Further, I would like for our government to provide free transportation to their new destination outside of the USA. They would not be forced to leave, they could stay and take up a new occupation according to their skills like plumbing or other similar tasks.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 1:28 p.m.

    Those who accuse Republicans of only saying No to health care are uninformed. Republicans have proposed a patient based insurance option whose features have been ignored by the WH. The goal for both sides is affordable and universal health care, neither option achieves this. The WH touts 29,000 enrolled as a significant number while saying that the 5.6 million+ losing their health plans is insignificant. Credibility from the WH is at an all time low for the Obama administration and worse for congress. Politics seem to trump rational thought on both sides. No one is wearing a white hat.

  • David Centerville, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 2:19 p.m.

    Liberals are naive in so many ways.

    You think docs will retire at 50 when they're graduating with $400K student loan debt?

    Rather, health care is just another targets for dens to tax & get their piece of the action. Churches, energy, & every other aspect of life is ultimately to be taxed & controlled by government.

    Government will next be telling doctors how much they'll earn. Sounds Sovietish, doesn't it?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 3:31 p.m.

    As if doctors care, come on, they're dealing with the same insurance providers, whether the plan was bought through the exchange or not.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 7, 2013 10:45 p.m.

    You do realize there is no such thing as Obamacare insurance, right? It is still the cast of same characters, United Healthcare, Aetna, BlueCross\BlueShield, IHS... that are providing the insurance. I am not sure if there is any way a doctor can distinguish that the patient has subsidized insurance or not. Basically when a doctor agrees to be part of an insurance companies plan, they accept the negotiated rates of that plan. To them, the money flows all the same - regardless if an employer bought the plan for someone, or if the insurance was bought through a state exchange.

    And bottom line, it is illegal for a doctor to refuse to render stabilizing care... It is the one reason so many people use the emergency room as their primary care source.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:01 p.m.

    "patients have to wait extended times to be seen by a physician, and they have (as we will have) death panels"

    Really? And doctors here.... they don't need permission or authorization from the insurance companies for many treatments here, is that the impression you are under? That United Health Care says to the doctors "you just do what you feel is best, and well pay for it"? That Hospitals don't have management boards that determine what procedures are cost effective, and make decisions on treatment based on cost, type of insurance, etc. Really... you believe that?

    And you really think that you can just tell a specialist here that you want to see them tomorrow... or the next day? That there is no backlog in seeing specialist here? Seriously?

    Merritt Hawkins, a medical consulting firm surveyed over 1,000 medical facilities and found "on average, wait times have increased by 8.6 days per city, " to now average just about a month to see a specialist, sometimes more based on specialty.

    This was a survey done before Obamacare was passed.

    @sven - which countries have death panals, btw. I am sure we would love to see that list.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 11:08 p.m.

    Re: Sven "Like a good little liberal, you besmirch any person making a profit for their work." First, I am not a liberal. Second, I believe anyone who performs labor should be paid for the value they add, no more, no less. The problem is that the health care market is not the sort of perfect market that could be trusted to price equitably. Too many in the health care game have "market power," that is, the ability to force price. If physicians choose to deny care to people participating in the ACA or medicare this is an indication that there is a shortage of physicians relative to demand. Otherwise they wouldn't dare to opt out. BTW, doctors do not lose on medicare patients, they just can't make killing on them like with specialty care.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Dec. 8, 2013 12:13 p.m.

    A doctor has no responsibility to the government. A doctor's duty is to his patient, not to the government and not to anyone in the government who interferes with the Doctor/Patient relationship. Those who are so vocal about Doctors accepting the terms dictated by Obama need to ask themselves what they would do if Obama signed into law restrictions on their jobs or if Obama signed into law caps on their paycheck? If Obama can control Doctors, what makes anyone think that he won't control them?

  • Holly28 SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Dec. 8, 2013 1:29 p.m.

    Government should not have any part in our individual health care or health care insurance. Those who believe government should 'take care' of our insurance or health care have a mental disability.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 8:25 a.m.

    I think it is sad that when people need health care, Diane is advocating exactly the opposite and refusal to do what Doctors took an oath to do. My tax dollars, and private donations support many Universities and programs to teach and educate these Doctors. It is not a good idea for them to refuse to treat people who have obtained insurance legally. I still never hear what the Republicans have in mind to solve the problem? I guess that just complaining is going to help?

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 10:13 a.m.

    "How is it "exact same insurance" if a 50 year old couple must pay for OB services that they don't pay for now? Or a single man?"

    Perhaps this person does not know anything about insurance. I've had insurance for my entire working life. (Which means I have had to pay for the freeloaders that can afford insurance, but don't.) And never have I had the option to buy insurance for men only. Those in whatever originazation I have worked for are offered maybe two or three different plans such as a gold plan or platinum plan from one, sometimes two, companies. And those plans ALL carry things such as OB/GYN. there is NEVER an option for a men's only, or women's only plan. All the men, all the women are offered the exact same choices. There also is NEVER different options based on age.

    So, All American, what are you talking about?

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 10:27 a.m.

    I'm still waiting for anyone on the right to give us a solution to how we deliver quality, affordable healthcare to all Americans without bankrupting them or the nation. You haven't given us one, you never will, unless you consider the roots to the ACA which is a cross between Heritagecare and Romneycare. Is this failure to fix it a reflection on our intelligence since every industrial nation in the world has figured it out or is it just shilling for your physician's pocketbook. HR676 now!

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 10:34 a.m.

    "the U.S. has fewer physicians (24.2) per capita than the UK (27.7)."

    "Care to explain why this recruitment of new physicians in the UK is not working? They are experiencing a serious physician shortage."

    Oops, Sven.

    So if the UK has a serious shortage, what does that say about the US? Facts are tough things aren't they, Sven. Of course you little conservatives never worry much about truth and facts anyway. Do you?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 3:53 p.m.

    "Doctors Unite"

    And here I thought this was gong to be an article about Doctors collectively forming a Union so their voices could be heard.

  • the old switcharoo mesa, AZ
    Dec. 10, 2013 8:25 a.m.

    Oh it's cute the way the little gears turn in conservatives heads. They don't come up with any correct conclusions but it's still just the cutest thing.

    See here's the deal, the health care industry has been raising it's prices exponentially for 30 years and we're getting to the point where nobody can pay out of pocket for any health care. Something had to be done and Obama had the audacity to use the REPUBLICANS plan of "personal responsibility" and require everyone to buy health insurance. They call it jujitsu.

    So while we've spent a trillion dollars or much more in the revenge bombing/rebuilding of Afghanistan and Iraq and failed to stamp out opposition, we just can't afford any health care according to right wing conservatives who ironically, would gladly give everyone health care as long as they joined the military first.