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Commentary: Long-term success in independence requires BYU football to 'Rise Up'

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  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 6:32 a.m.

    Nothing like an article to state how mediocre the Cougars are to inspire the comments.

    I believe things are going great for BYU. Though there have been some disappointments, no one likes losing close games, and from the arm chair QB position it is frustrating to see silly mistakes, but all in all it has been an entertaining foray into independence.

    Football is unpredictable despite the business of measuring every aspect of performance and predicting outcomes. No one said BYU would instantly be successful in independence but I'm liking the trends.

    BYU has been fairly predictable and the same goes for our rival. For those that want to say an 8-4 season is disappointing and wallow in the losses and what could have been I have but one thing to say...

    It's a lot worse 50 miles up the road and their trend has not inspired a lot of positives.

    Other institutions may have brief moments of athletic grandeur, and I am happy for them, but when it comes to overall recognition... BYU athletics, hand down, is the state's crown jewel.

    Go Cougars!

  • gary2635 Placentia, CA
    Dec. 6, 2013 6:55 a.m.

    Any author that pretends to speak for BYU fans loses all credibility. He can only speak for himself.

  • BYU9293 Clinton, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 7:05 a.m.

    Good commentary and objective. I think it is right on. In fact, Bronco has even said that he thinks for byu to win a national championship they would have to go undefeated 2 consecutive seasons. BYU is a good team, but not great and has not had a great team in quite awhile. But I still love them.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    Dec. 6, 2013 7:20 a.m.

    With just a slight improvement in the offense, BYU would have beaten Virginia, Utah and Wisconsin and/or Notre Dame.

    Looking forward to Anae getting more aggressive on 1st down and in the blue zone.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    Dec. 6, 2013 7:33 a.m.

    "That's the single-biggest problem of being an independent. One loss spells apathy for the rest of the season when there's no conference title to win. "

    Spoken like an ankle biter.

    Or like an objective sports commentator.

    But not like a fan.

    I spent good money, rearranged my Thanksgiving weekend and my work schedule, so I could see the game in Reno. I've heard Utah fans talk about how cool it is to have teams like Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, etc come to SLC, and it is cool, but whoever and wherever the Cougars play, the team in the stadium I care about is BYU.

    I agree with most of the points of the article. But apathetic?

    Never!

  • nvlawyer Las Vegas, NV
    Dec. 6, 2013 7:42 a.m.

    Couldn't disagree more. BYU would be in the top 25 this year if it had simply beaten Virginia and Utah. Losing to Notre Dame and Wisconsin on the road would have been considered predictable. A win against either of those teams on the road -- especially Wisconsin, would have propelled BYU to the top 20 easily. That is right on the edge of BCS. I think the writer hear overestimates the need for a conference affiliation. A lot of eyeballs have been put on BYU and with the exception of the Virginia game, BYU earned some respect -- even in the losses on the road. We traveled well. We played good defense (mostly). Our QB got a lot of exposure nationally as a sophomore. This wasn't the year. Next year, however, with a win at Texas, BYU could be looking at an undefeated year and will get all the attention it could ever imagine.

  • caleb in new york Glen Cove, NY
    Dec. 6, 2013 7:58 a.m.

    It looks like next years schedule will be rated much lower than 32nd in the country. UConn, Cal, and Virginia were all 1 or 2 win teams in 2013. Goes to show that scheduling is difficult - its tough to know years in advance who will be quality opponents. BYU could go undefeated next year and easily be kept out of the 4 team playoff.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    Dec. 6, 2013 8:09 a.m.

    Any "fan" who becomes apathetic after the first loss of the season isn't a true fan.

    The chances of even the most elite teams being able to play for a national championship are minuscule, but that doesn't mean true fans become apathetic as soon as their team is realistically eliminated from the national championship race.

    There are still plenty of other worthy achievements that can still be attained, such as Top 25 finishes, 10+ win seasons, and bowl wins, even after the first loss of the season.

  • caleb in new york Glen Cove, NY
    Dec. 6, 2013 8:13 a.m.

    Even if BYU were playing against Fresno St. this week, I would still prefer this year's independent schedule over being in the MWC. Next year might be a different story, however, because BYU's 2014 independent schedule looks significantly weaker.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 8:17 a.m.

    caleb in new york

    "BYU could go undefeated next year and easily be kept out of the 4 team playoff."

    True, but with 5 major conferences, plus Notre Dame, and only 4 playoff spots available, it's an absolute certainty that at least one major conference champion will be left on the outside looking in at the playoffs, even if they go undefeated.

    Who would the selection committee pick if the choices for the final playoff spot were a one-loss Alabama or an undefeated Arizona State?

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    Dec. 6, 2013 8:25 a.m.

    As long as Anae is calling the plays, as long as we have to recruit nearly all LDS kids, as long as winning is number 5, we will look at 8 win seasons as normal. I like independence better than conference play, but BYU will always be playing tougher teams 2 away and 1 at home. It is going to be tough to win. I projected this year as 8 wins. I did not expect to beat Texas, but I certainly thought we could beat Utah. I will never live to see one unbeaten season let alone two. I think we have to accept things the way they are and not get discouraged. If we can't recruit offensive linemen, we have no hope of landing talent in the skill positions. We seem to believe that running makes a quarterback so the era of landing top quarterback prospects is over. Creative offense is history. I'll keep my tickets one more year.

  • caleb in new york Glen Cove, NY
    Dec. 6, 2013 8:26 a.m.

    Cordon - so you're arguing for an expansion of the 4-team playoff? I'm perfectly happy with a 4 team playoff. I like how college football reserves a lot of excitement for the regular season. Under the scenario you stated, based on this year's schedules easily an undefeated Arizona St. would be chosen because they played a more difficult schedule than Alabama did.

  • Ed Grady Idaho Falls, ID
    Dec. 6, 2013 8:31 a.m.

    "Good but not Great" is pretty accurate.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 8:36 a.m.

    This was the year and byu did what it could and proved that it is what it is, but it sounds like the "fans" are ok with it. Sammy's comment sums it up pretty good.

  • Sandyclaws Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 9:21 a.m.

    Not the season I was hoping for, but it could have been a lot worse. Just ask the tun.

    I am glad we have a coach who has a national championship as the ultimate goal. Why would anyone want a coach who didn't aspire to that. We all know it won't happen next year, even if we go undefeated. But the year after...............?

    No matter what happens, I will always be a Cougar fan.

    GO GOUGS!

  • oldcougfan North Ogden, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 9:43 a.m.

    I would much more prefer independence over being in a substandard conference like the MWC. It is boring to be playing the same old lousy schools every year. I like the fact that we can go to different parts of the country and play a lot of different schools. I think BYU needs to do an affiliation with a different conference every 2 years for about 5 games likes Notre Dame does for the games later in the year.

  • Mr. Plate Lindon, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 9:46 a.m.

    @ekute - yeah, I'm ok with BYU, and even better years will really give me a thrill as a fan. It's better to understand that football is really just a game, and to know who you are, and have fun and enjoyment with your team, even if they're good but not great, and have hope for even better things to come, than to obsess about greatness and have an average team ruin your life year after year.

  • See It SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 10:01 a.m.

    I think until we get someone who is less than predictable in his play calling, these are the types of seasons we will continually see. When we are inside the 20 at Wisconsin 4 times, and can't score a touchdown, something is wrong. We need the horses on the line and a coach that really knows what they are doing. Not some offensive line coach that thinks they an OC. We also need to scrap this "fast and furious" offense and get back to passing the ball in the spread. The "read option" is too easy to defend, and it really didn't work when the other team has superior atheletes. It didn't when it counted, did it?

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    Dec. 6, 2013 10:01 a.m.

    Real Cougar fans run on optimism, not pessimism and skepticizm. Well maybe a few, but I digress..

    This is why commentators like ekute will say, "it sounds like the "fans" are ok with it."

    It's a little more complex than that. Yes, we hope for more, we dream of more, some of us even pray for more, and we are NOT okay with losing, but we ARE okay with our Cougars, win or lose.

    Now, back to the koolaid, or optimism. Next year's schedule is not going to impress anyone, but the flip side of that is, get past Texas and we COULD well go undefeated. Will it get us into the play-offs? No. But will it set us up for 2015? Yes, it should.

    And with a better schedule, and a senior Taysom and Jamaal, this fan will be right back at the punch bowl, grinning blue from ear to ear. And yes, I am okay with that!

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    Dec. 6, 2013 10:08 a.m.

    "Long-term success in independence requires BYU football to 'Rise Up"

    Well the Cougies haven't so far! The last 3 years they underachieved. Their fanbase seems to be satisfied with the results and just appearing in a 3rd tier bowl game.

  • Mildred in Fillmore Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 10:36 a.m.

    Playing lesser teams and insuring ourselves of a bowl game every year is great. Look what has happened to Utah and TCU. I'm sure if we joined a top conference, we would dominate it, just like we do the Independant Conference.

  • Back Talk Federal Way, WA
    Dec. 6, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    Being competitive on a national basis is still a good thing. IT could easily turn into a case of being totally uncompetitive. People think that being invited tot he Big 12 would be great. If they did, more people would be grateful just to be competitive.

    BYU has well missed some winnable games the last couple of years but to continually talk about National Championships is rediculous. Lets see if BYU can take the next step (go to a BCS bowl) and that should be their focus. Anything that might happen under a blue moom that occurs similar to 1984 will be gravy.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 11:20 a.m.

    @the bleeder

    Weak post by you, embarrassingly weak.

    Most BYU fans are not "satisfied with the results", like all fans we want more. But at the same time, and unlike the completely delusional utah "fans", we also realize BYU is a good team but has room for improvement. You are correct about them underachieving the last 3 years though, anytime you lose to a losing bottom feeder program like utah in each of those 3 years you have definately underachieved.

    As for "3rd tier" bowl games, what bowl game is it utah is playing in this year? Which one did they play in last year?

    Hmmmmm........sounds like "3rd tier bowl games" would be a step up for that losing bottom feeder program you are a "fan" of.

  • 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
    Dec. 6, 2013 11:42 a.m.

    The article has forgotten to mention the "new" with BYU this year. New OC, New O, new coaches etc.

    This was a great year by any standard considering the newness of everything. It is striking to me as I read these articles that the media is giving failing grades because the Y is not GREAT all the time. Who is? Yet at the same time a losing program as defined by lack of wins, not speculation, is reported to be almost there, a good team that is making improvement, even though they also have a new OC and O. (Yes I'm talking the Utes here).

    Dear media, stop projecting so many what if's on BYU and incredibly high expectations before you decide the Y has arrived. Marvel at what they are doing, in the circumstances they are in and with the honor code they willingly enforce. What BYU does is amazing by any measurement.

  • mn_online In, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 12:02 p.m.

    "Marge: I should have said 'limit one per customer'.
    Cletus: Shoulda' but didna', so hands 'em over."

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Dec. 6, 2013 12:29 p.m.

    @Wayne Rout et al.

    BYU's goal, just like every good team, is a NC. However, of the top 20 teams year in year out, how many of them DO make the NC game. The playoffs will be better, but how to get into the playoffs.

    Realistically, does anyone from a team not named Alabama, expect to be in the NC game? We can all name the candidates: USC, Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, Florida State. Second Tier: Oregon, Stanford, ND, Wisconsin, Michigan.

    Surprise teams like OkState, Missouri, et al. are flash in the pans.

    BYU could be a surprise team someday. But BYU's yearly perspective is a top 20 ranking and a bowl game. Their intent is national exposure. They're getting that.

    In short, quit whining. BYU has it good.

  • Levin Reno, NV
    Dec. 6, 2013 12:33 p.m.

    This year's team would likely have done as well in the MWC as Fresno State, the AAC as Central Florida, or the MAC as Northern Illinois. (Two of those obviously could have been reality.) I'm glad BYU is independent, because the record has to stand for itself, with no automatic BCS bid for being "the tallest midget". BYU is ranked right where it should be, while the rankings of those other teams are inflated by weaker competition. I'd prefer the Cougars to build their program into the national scene, rather than have it prematurely thrust into the spotlight like the BCS debacles of Hawai'i, Connecticut, and NIU. This has been a good year, a solid building year.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 12:36 p.m.

    An avid BYU fan friend of mine suggested he thinks he might need to lower his expectations for the football program some in order to not get too down with these mediocre seasons - I tend to agree. However, we are going to enjoy supporting our Cougars even if they don't win national championships!. That said, the team should continue to strive for excellence. I would rather be in BYU's situation where they are getting great exposure while having winning seasons against good teams and going to bowl games than be mired in the dregs of failure as Utah seems to be experiencing in the Pack 12. I like Coach Mendenhall, but I'm not convinced his approach to football will ever produce a "great team". I will continue to enjoy the game and try to be optimistic but keep my expectations in check in an effort not to lose all my hair (don't have much left as it is). Basketball team looking pretty good so far though. Go Cougars!

  • Linus Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 12:55 p.m.

    Bleed Crimson:

    We Cougar fans do not measure the success of a season based on how we did against Utah. Ute fans used to care about bowl appearances, and the Utes had a nice bowl game record. Now, though, they obtain all their satisfaction from their game with the Y and how close they come to winning PAC12 games.

    It is clear that the "Cougies" rose up against Texas. Right?

  • yourstruly PAUL, ID
    Dec. 6, 2013 1:11 p.m.

    The jist of the article was great about BYU being only a good team but in reality for the program it is better to take the money, have all your games in basketball and football on tv and build the program with the larger base that tv will provide. What parent doesn't want their friends and relatives to be able to watch every game on tv. BYU has won enough conference titles and going to a BCS game is great but why would they be a better program if they went and were still only a good program.

  • souptwins Lindon, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 1:23 p.m.

    I've always been a "glass half full" kind of person and am fine with independence. That doesn't mean I'm wearing the blue glasses or drinking the kool-aid, however. For BYU to get better, we'll need to recruit better in the trenches. Our skill players are very capable but they can't do it alone. Those positions aren't flashy or get attention but they will make or break your team (look at Wisc. game). This season was hardly a disappointment for me because I'd have been happy with 6-6 and hoped for 7-5. 8-4 is an overachieving season to me. I don't want "my team" to have a coach who isn't aiming for an NC while realizing that may be unrealistic. Why would you play if not hoping to win every game? That's not arrogant, but it is ambitious. To take the next step, BYU needs to do an honest assessment and make corrections but we're in a very good place to do that.

  • Danny T Minneapolis, MN
    Dec. 6, 2013 2:04 p.m.

    The main thing is that everyone on the team is out there, getting some exercise, getting some fresh air, and a little bit of much needed recreation, and just beat UTAH!

    Cougars for life!!

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    Dec. 6, 2013 2:52 p.m.

    If the question is do fans wish the Y were back in the MWC playing the same schools year after year and getting more wins on a smaller stage? I can only speak for me, but this fan says "no way," especially since all the Cougars ever seemed to get from most of those fan bases was mockery to outright hate. Good riddance.

    Work to get the best athletes we can to buy into BYU's mission, strive to schedule the best teams and win every game, and live with the results, but never sell BYU's soul in the hope of "BCS glory." Remember what the BCS is and why it started.

    Independence and WCC affiliation legitimately seem to be the best option right now. I root for BYU BECAUSE of what they stand for, not in spite of it. My devotion to Cougar nation will only change if that does.

  • baddog Cedar Rapids, IA
    Dec. 6, 2013 3:29 p.m.

    @Bleed Crimson

    As opposed to a 4-7 record and home for the holidays?

    Just like life, we take the bad with the good. There's nothing like the anticipation of a new season and hoped for new results.

    I'd suggest that BYU is on track for what it wants to achieve. 8-4 when 13-0 is preferred? Heck, yes. It's better than 4-7 any day.

  • ClarkeinAK Anchorage, AK
    Dec. 6, 2013 4:08 p.m.

    I agree with SeeIt...the play calling is horrific. I sat in front of my TV screen and was calling to next play (run on first down 90% of the time???)...and if I can do that, so can the defensive coordinator of the other team. Anae was too predictable during his last stint, so as long as Bronco and Robert are in charge, mediocrity will be the norm. And as long as mediocrity is the norm, say goodbye to anything but a third tier bowl game with a funny name.

    I also think a conference affiliation with a good conference would be a great thing...the Big 10 that aren't actually 10 would be good for starters. The SEC wouldn't have us and the PAC formerl 10 won't have BYU either, so choices are limited. You can't be counted as a big boy team unless you play with the big boys...sorry!!!

  • jeru0455 SALEM, OR
    Dec. 6, 2013 4:17 p.m.

    As a Utah fan, I still don't really get the whole independence thing. What, exactly, is the point of playing a bunch of meaningless non-conference games? Even ND, who has been independent for years signed a deal with the ACC for an outside Orange Bowl bid, because they saw that the coming playoff will make being an independent all but impossible for long term success. I guess there is now a BCS auto-bid for the highest ranked mid major team, so that's something right? The Utes are actually making tremendous progress, if you bothered to watch them at all. They aren't getting blown out anymore and have beaten the defending conference champion/North Division champion and almost beat the South Division Champion. I, and I think a lot of Utah fans, always knew that competing in the PAC would take at least four years, or a full recruiting cycle.

  • Undefeated Hyrum, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 4:25 p.m.

    Why would anyone pray for one team to win over another team. It's a game! God has a lot more important things to focus on than Byu football.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 4:50 p.m.

    I thought this article hit the nail on the head. BYU is good but not great. This BYU fan believes that with more continuity in offensive coaches and time for Taysom and Jamal to flourish this team will be great in a year or two. I love independence right now, even with the 2 for 1s and no conference championships. I've never watched BYU football or had as much access to them as I do now and I love it. Does that mean I wouldn't love it if they joined a bigger conference at some point? Of course I would. But the view from here is far better than it was in the MWC. The future looks bright...bring in some guys that can own the trenches like the 80s & 90s lines and BYU will be very tough to beat for anyone. Lets get to 9 wins this season and then look forward to a big goose egg in the loss column next year! GO COUGS!

  • RSLfanalways West Valley, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 6:16 p.m.

    Independence only works for a select few teams. I dont think it is working as well as BYU would like. It is nice that they can play Norte Dame but they also play Idaho. If BYU stayed in the MWC they would have been better off like if they were in the MWC they could of been playing in the Championship game tomorrow on CBS. You can't beat the attention that comes with being decent team in a conference.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 8:05 p.m.

    BYU overachieved this year as it has in most, if not every, year of Bronco's tenure. He's always had recruiting classes that are ranked around #50 in the country and his end of season ranking is higher than that (this year 35).

    As long as the Y can continue to have geographically diverse and interesting opponents like this year, I much prefer an independent schedule. Even being in the Big 12 isn't all that appealing to me; why lock yourself into playing the same teams every year. For me as a fan the game is about entertainment and it's interesting to play a wide variety of opponents.

    Also, it's time to stop ascribing any importance to BCS bowls. The BCS is dead after this year. The playoff is the only competitive part of the game...the rest are exhibitions and like any fan, the only bowl games I care about are the ones my teams are in.

    BYU plays an entertaining and overachieving brand of football. I would enjoy a NC run as much as the next fan, but I'm not unrealistic enough to expect it or become apathetic after the first loss of any season.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 6, 2013 9:50 p.m.

    Since 1976 when D1 was formed, independence has not worked for teams like:

    Miami
    Florida State
    Penn State
    Georgia Tech
    Pitt
    Boston College

    Can't see how Indy benefits BYU in the long term. What happens if the Big 5 splits to creates a higher tier of college football? Does BYU still prefer being Indy then?

    Long term success requires BYU football to join a Big 5 league.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 10:34 p.m.

    @Uteology

    Independence "didn't work" for Miami? They won their first three national championships as an independent.

    Didn't work for FSU? They were ranked in the top 5 in the polls each of their last six years as an independent.

    Didn't work for Penn State? Penn State's football program had its heyday (and undefeated season) as an independent. Need I go on?

    Being an independent didn't prevent any of these schools from being national powerhouses in football.
    The fact that they ultimately opted to join a conference doesn't change the fact that they did just fine as independents.

    And if the landscape of college football changes, BYU is in a great position to adapt to those changes. And change is inevitable. It's hard to characterized five conferences as "Top 5" conferences when there are only 4 seats at the playoff table. If a conference championship doesn't get you an automatic bid into the playoff, it's hard to say there's anything special about that conference.

    If the playoff were this year, using the ranking, only 3 conferences would be represented.

  • B C Park City, UT
    Dec. 6, 2013 10:41 p.m.

    "What happens if the Big 5 splits to creates a higher tier of college football?"

    Nothing. It's never going to happen.

    The playoff will expand to 8 teams within 3 or 4 years, then a decent schedule with an undefeated or one-loss season would put BYU into the thick of playoff contention.

    Indy benefits BYU in ways that are far beyond the narrow-minded view of programs that live in the reflected light of their big conference brothers.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 7, 2013 12:36 a.m.

    @let's roll

    That wasn't the point. The point was if Indy was so great then those teams would still be Indy. Even ND has a five game contract with the ACC.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 9:14 a.m.

    Well uteology at this point there isn't even a debate about whose been better served with their new affiliation, BYU or utah. BYU has been to 3 straight bowl games as an idependent, utah has spent 2 straight years sitting on the couch. BYU has been to the NCAA tourney in basketball 1 year and went to the NIT final 4 the next in basketball, and looks to be an NCAA team again this year. utah has been nothing but a basketball loser and has not played in any sort of post season whatsoever. BYU has won a couple of National Championships in some of the minor sports and a couple of 2nd place national finishes as well. utah has, well the womens volleyball team is making the first appearance for utah in post season play in any sport other than gymnastics.

    I don't know about you but I prefer the winning, post season play, and national championships, that BYU has provided BYU fans with over the last 3 years than the angst and losing utah "fans" have received from utah. But hey you're in the pac12 right? You get to celebrate all those other schools accomplishments. Sounds awesome.

  • Pavalova Surfers Paradise, AU
    Dec. 7, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    I am sure that the PAC12 is reconsidering the investment in U and CU. Neither program has contributed anything financially to the postseason. At least Utah State and BYU have made financial sense for the respective school and conference.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 7, 2013 12:11 p.m.

    @BC

    Indy benefits BYU in ways that are far beyond the narrow-minded view of programs that live in the reflected light of their big conference brothers.

    -----------

    Is that why you've been talking about joining a big boy conference since the 80s and Indy since 2009?

    "In the early years, I think BYU felt that they had outgrown the conference and their people were talking about how BYU would go to the Big 12 or the Pac-10... When we started beating them, they stopped talking about their bowl game." -- Ron McBride

    So it seems now that we beat you to the PAC-12 you've stopped talking about joining a bigger conference altogether. How sad!

    If you think you can make an even 8 team playoff you are dreaming.

    BYU has ONE undefeated season with a #104 SOS
    Have never finished in the top 10 in the BCS era
    Class rankings are on par with #12 PAC-12 teams
    Over the last decade class rankings have dropped from the 30s to 60s
    No longer the choice of top instate talent
    NFL talent has decreased (on par with Washington State)

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 7, 2013 12:17 p.m.

    @BC

    According to CBS Sports it is more likely the split will happen:

    "While it's not a full-on breakaway from the NCAA that's coming to college football, the look and feel of the sport will never be the same...[Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby] later identified that change as the possible establishment of a so-called “Division 4” of the highest level of football-playing schools...

    What we'd been hearing for those months now seems to be heading for reality. There is going to be a further subdivision at the highest level of college football. It last happened in 1978 when FCS (Division I-AA) was created. That relegated 250 or so schools to the non-revenue purgatory that is I-AA...

    The message was as clear as the division between the BCS and non-BCS conferences. ACC commissioner John Swofford said it could come within six months. Bowlsby said an NCAA special convention may be needed."

    -- Dennis Dodd (July 22, 2013)

  • slcjimmy SLC, UT
    Dec. 7, 2013 9:44 p.m.

    @cougarsundevil...Anyone heard from this poster lately? As I predicted weeks ago ASU is always incapable of winning the big games. A chance for "Roses" at home yet your team completely no shows! The day is coming soon when Utah will get the chance to host the championship game & I assure you like many past big games the outcome will be the same. Ute victory! My suggestion my fellow PAC 12 friend is to not run that big mouth you posses prior to any victories of true relevance.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 8, 2013 11:26 a.m.

    @slcjimmy

    Yet you run your mouth when your team has never beaten his while in the pac 12, has never posted a winning record in the pac 12, has had increasingly worse records every year it has been in the pac12,and is about to spend its second straight post season on the couch. lol

  • slcjimmy SLC, UT
    Dec. 8, 2013 8:09 p.m.

    @Duckhunter...As an avid Ute supporter my retorts to your obvious superior mental intellect henceforth your handle name are often monitored quite regularly by the DN staff. My deepest apology to you since my original post was meant for @cougarsundevil. My recommendation is that you make sure that your college team @ least belongs to a conference better yet a BCS Conference before becoming involved with posts meant for others. Lol

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Dec. 9, 2013 10:28 a.m.

    @slcjimmy

    Then perhaps you should spend a little bit more time making more thought provoking posts. As for my "becoming involved with posts meant for others" and you being "an avid ute supporter" perhaps you haven't noticed you are posting in an article about BYU in the BYU section of the paper? Now that is just fine with me as I enjoy the inane, delusional, and generally thouthless posts utah "fans" like yourself routinely post in BYU articles, but if you are going to suggest others not respond to you maybe you ought to think about where you are and what you're posting?

    As I said though I prefer you keep posting as I enjoy responding to posts like yours, and you "frantically and emotionally" begging me not to respond just proves I was accurate in my post and you didn't appreciate the fact I completely obliterated your "point".

    Keep up the good work!